/vr/ - Retro Games

Donkey Kong 64 is an excellent game.

>>8901734
>why did the 3d platformer genre lose popularity in the 00's?
They didn't, just that particular approach. Once limitations faded and levels didn't need to be designed as condensed radial hubs (or even as self-contained levels to begin with), there was more options than the simple goal/collecting template necessary to make the most of them.

>>8901734
In reality there were not a lot of great 3D platformers in the 90s/early 00s. They just stopped making lots of licensed games and other shovelware

>>8901745

>was it because of DK64
No, DK64 was well received at the time and sold well, the problem was that by 6th gen kids only wanted GTA clones or "mature" games, seeing funny character collecting golden mcguffins wasn't as cool as some dude in a trenchcoat shooting demons or some thug running over pedestrians while rap music blasts from the speakers, this also applies to the devs who wanted to do more "serious" things instead.
6th gen platformers also lost their identity due to this, they were chasing those trends and trying to mix it with the genre which didnt fare well (any 3d collectathon with combat/tps/vehicle mechanics was usually pretty shit outside of some rare ocassions like Ratchet and Clank) and the simple plots and characters were left aside for convoluted plots or 00s Nickelodeon humor.
TL;DR Kids wanted something more edgy and Collectathons couldn't adapt to that well.

>>8901734
Everyone wanted to chase the edgy demographic. There definitely still were some 3D platformers like Jak and Daxter and the Maximo series.

>>8901734
If you were a GameCube or PS2 owner, you still had plenty to choose from. Aside from Mario, Sonic, Jak, Ratchet, and Sly, there were also third-parties making games like Vexx, Ty, Tak, and Scaler. Even Xbox got Blinx and the Conker remake. Not necessarily amazing games (admittedly I've never played most of them aside from pic related), but they were out there.

I think it wasn't until seventh gen when 3D platformers outside of Mario and Sonic were mostly replaced by licensed games/movie tie-in games and mature action games like Uncharted or Assassin's Creed, or Marvel and DC games which were able to achieve the same thing while appealing to a wider audience, or at least that's the way the industry saw things. Platformers went back to 2D during that time period and we finally got stuff like Rayman Origins and DKCR. So I guess it worked out in the end, sort of.

>>8901745
>Hundreds of collectibles with half optional
>4 different characters with different game feel and movement styles
>Moving your crosshair in the first person mode actually works like how a human would make it unlike tooie's
>Largest gameplay variety of all Rare game's (Racing, stealth, platformer, arcade game)
DK64 is based and people who get filtered by it are parroting youtubers than giving it a try

>>8901759

>>8901795
>DKCR
Oh you mean that game that's better than the entire SNES trilogy? Yeah I remember it, it's great

>>8901780
You hit it the nail on the head. I have to find it, but there was an interview with Jason Rubin who talked about the development of Jak 2. During focus tests, all the kids wanted to play GTA3 and thought the initial Jak 2 (the Collectathon) was too childish. They were only 8 years old.

Is The Sands of Time a platformer or action-adventure? I wish we had more games like it, Mirror's Edge was similar. Parkour game should've been an entire sub-genre

>>8901846
I haven't played it in a while, in hindsight I really wish it didn't use waggle so much, but aside from that I enjoyed it

>>8901846
It's pretty good but I like Diddy's Kong Quest better

>>8901734
too many western developed games, lots of fatigue and derivative games of titles that weren't amazing in the first place (sorry ratchet fans, I like the games but lets be real.) It's a genre that ran out of steam from being so overproduced and the games stopped selling. Same thing happened with FPS games and is happening with open world/third person shooter-action games now.

>>8901859
it's a 3D action platformer and the platforming is very light & rigid, mostly meant to look cool and be simple puzzle solving but tomb raider & galleon it ain't.

>>8901734
DK64 wasn't even the last Rare platfomer on the console. The Ps2/Gamecube era had Sunshine, Jak, Sly, Ratchet, Rayman, Ty, etc. Verdict: 3D platformers died with the arrival of the 360/Ps3

>>8902196
the 6th gen decline was apparent, mascot action platformers became dime-a-dozen that generation. They must have been really easy to make.

>>8901847
Jak 2 is such a disappointment after the first Jak and Daxter game

>>8902196
The only 3D platformers that succeeded that gen were the Mario Galaxy games and LEGO games

>>8901907
>I really wish it didn't use waggle so much
The 3DS version or Dolphin solve that issue

>>8901846
2 > Returns > Tropical Freeze > 1 > 3
All are fantastic games though, 3 is the weakest and it’s still a solid 8.5/10.

>>8901753
high IQ take

>>8901745
FPBP
As for 3D platformers, I just think the paradigm changed during 6th gen. GTA/sandbox style games became what people wanted and 3D platformers were seen as there were "too much of them".
Ironically, there isn't actually that many 3D platformers, compared to same-y sandbox shit.

>>8901807
Ahh yes, my favorite type of platformer, walking around flat, maybe elevated surfaces, to get to a button in which I need to use a certain skill to activate thr button in order to play shoot the fish in a barrel mini game. Peak platforming.

I'd rather play an actual 3D platformer.

>>8904385
DK64 has a lot of verticality and the gameplay is a lot more arcade-y than Tomb Raider, which is basically more on the cinematic platforming genre (ala PoP) with TPS elements.

>>8904387
The platforming in DK64 is light for most parts, and are often sectioned off. It's as if you start off in a hub world to select which sort of theme you want to select, then go to that theme and it is it's own hub and you take a specific Kong to a section. That section will either be racing, mine carts, a maze, platforming, or what ever other mini game they have cooked up.

>>8904395
platforming is also not the word I'd describe much of dk64 with. Even banjo has very little platforming

>>8904395
I remember a lot of platforming though, swining through vines, climbing up stuff and getting to top places, and if you fall off, it's a punishment because you have to do it all over again. But yeah I don't remember if there was any actual bottomless pits.
Mini-games, some are fun, some others were enraging.

>>8904405
>Even banjo has very little platforming
Click Clock Wood is one of my favorite 3D platforming levels in general, wouldn't say it has "little platforming" at all. But yeah I get what you guys mean with the huge ass hub worlds... I think it's what people wanted at the time, big 3D spaces to just explore, it was new at the time.
Eventually, devs realized "hey, people just like roaming in 3D... let's just give them that, which is easy for us to do, and give it an "adult" coat of paint"... and we got the sandbox genre, which is just walk around in flat surfaces, doing "adult stuff" (like pressing a button to rape a prostitute), and 0 platforming.

>>8904408
it's mostly like an amusement park. Levels have attractions, you do some light platforming if any at all to get there, and then you visit another ride. Every level is designed like this.

>>8904415
I don't agree that Click Clock has "light" platforming.

>>8901745
That you liked Donkey Kong 64 has nothing to do with OP's question as to whether or not the game had something to do with the downfall of 3D platformers.

>>8904423
I think there's a section where you have to jump on some leaves that is over a dangerous fall but all falls in the game can be mitigated with a flutter. Gex 3 had a similar big weenie in the middle level you have to climb, it's like a big beanstalk, but the whole thing is platforming.

>>8904436
The whole level is climbing up a super tall big tree, any fall will be punishing because you have to do it ll over again.

>>8901734
Over saturation in the market and the start to move towards more "realistic" games and gameplay which would reach its peak in the 7th gen.

>>8904440
no bottomless pits or anything, and the platforms are fairly generous except that one leaf section I think during the fall.

>>8901734
>why did the 3d platformer genre lose popularity in the 00's?
They made it all so tiresome.

>>8901734
because it peaked and it was simply impossible to do better for the rest of mankind, so developers focused on something else

>3d platformer genre
Shit controls, shit camera, and shit gameplay. Fucking all of them. How the nugamers never figured this out, I will never understand.

>>8901734
Shooters started catching on and publishers realized how much mass appeal that genre had with normalfags

>>8901745
Correct.

>>8902110
This, but I never got tired of platformers like I got tired of fps games and tps games.

>>8901745
This.
i feel like 99% of the time whenever someone shits on dk64 its because some zoomer ecelebs tried doing a 101% run in one sitting then shat on the game for having too much stuff to collect.

>>8901745
Do people legitimately think DK64 is good? Or is this le epic contrarianism.

>>8901846
I wouldn't go that far, although I played the trilogy with my dad multiple times, so it was nice to actually be able to coop a couple together.

>>8906062
s/(S|s)hit/I got filtered by/g

>>8908914
>contrarian
pretty sure dk64 got decent reviews universally around the time of release, i honestly dont think i heard anyone say they didnt like the game until a few years ago, and then that sentiment got wide spread.
if anything, hating the game is contrarian, and even then i dont think most people 'hate' the game rather they think it was dissapointing. they probably just found it a slog to fully complete the game and let that affect their final opinions on it

>>8908914

le epic contrarianism is pretending that the game is shit, you can point out it has flaws like the color coded bananas, but it was universally praised and beloved when it came out and sold really well.
That hatred of the game really just came over the last decade or so with the inception and growing of Youtube.

>>8901745
Now you dun it. Contrarian zoomers are seething their asses off.

>>8901807
>what do you mean "this soup is disgusting"? I added every single ingredient I found in my kitchen

>>8901734
within the window of the PS2's prime, we saw 3d platformer mascots pick up guns and become shooters. we really went from 3d collectathons to gears of war/halo being the thing to buy for 12 year olds

theres probably a lot of different reasons why it happened but thats the gist. if i had to expand (see: stop reading here) the general consensus of what was cool for children to play was whatever teenagers thought was cool, and once people were able to develop better shooters more often, those games became cool rather than just thinking mario or le mascot face was cool, people wanted to become action heroes. i'm sure culture was all the reason why the trend changed - all trends were destined to end some time

When she pulls up the skirt and shows her wrongdong and you say
>Oh banana!

>>8907251
rareware made a habit of adding lots of collectibles/optional stuff in their games (particularly around the 64 area) to give value for money

now that everyone is emulating these games from 25 years ago, i think people are of the opinion that the game isnt as great pound for pound and is less dense and more so inflated

>>8901734

because game developers got lazy. Jak And Daxter 1 (one of the last true console platformers) was the shit, sold well, and was critically acclaimed. there was no reason not to continue this trajectory.

>>8910672
naughty dog said they literally interviewed kids asking what they like and they said gta, so they made jak 2 with guns

ratchet and clank was also a titan series for early-mid ps2 and literally all it was was a platformer where shooting stuff is half the gameplay (well it started as part of the gameplay then took over entirely)

>>8910648

5/10 already for it being a food analogy, the king of all analogies.
Another 2 for actually making sense in this context, the food actually having an equivalent.
->A good 7/10

To counter it Rare did not really take everything in the kitchen, to stay in the analogy they looked at what the few most beloved dishes were and combined them.
It's like after frying the steak they did not single serve it but made a steak hamburger with steak cube baguettes on the side - and people loved it.

Everything is DK's fault...

>>8904424
OP's question implies that DK64 is somehow a subpar game, which it isn't at all.

>>8901734
DK64 > Kazooie > Tooie