/vr/ - Retro Games

People like killing things.

>>887814
They were strategy games on systems not particularily renowned for strategy games. Also they were developed by Square

>>887843
/thread

Square adapted the strategy game to work on consoles and SDTVs and tapped a new market.

>>887814
I wish they had a speed up option for Tactics Ogre games.

I tried playing Knights of Lodis but just couldn't handle it. It took dudes like 10 full seconds to use a fucking healing potion.

inb4 warsong and shining force

Because they actually added interesting combat gameplay to JRPGs.

>>887850
They replaced press X to win with get close to the enemy and press X to win?

>>887814
>No mention of Front Mission

>>887854

As if getting close to certain enemies is as easy as you think on games like FFT.

>>887851
>I wish they had a speed up option for Tactics Ogre games.
All console games have on if you are part of the emulation masterrace.

>>888071
But then the music gets fucked up

Though Knights of Lodis at least, had pretty mediocre music.

>>888071
Am I the only one that feels kind of dirty for using speedup in emulators, instead of using the speed up options that the game provides you? Kind of feels like cheating or abusing savestates.

>>888085
There is literally no reason that would be cheating, how would that give you any advantage besides wasting less of your time? Forgive me if I don't want to spend less time watching a random dude eat a random item in a turn based RPG.

I could never understand why the characters kept flipping their legs instead of standing still.

>>888112
In FFT a character standing still often meant they were inflicted with Stop status ailment.
I guess it's just to some kind of "realistic movement".

>>888112
QUICK, EVERYBODY WALK IN PLACE, WE'VE GOT A FIGHT ON OUR HANDS

>>888112
I like to think they're marching, and somewhere in the background is a drum cadence.

>>888112
I think it's a "leftover" from the Dragon Quest games.

Why they did it in Dragon Quest? Uh... no damn idea.

>>887814
Because they are excellent games which have multiple routes for players. For min-maxers like me, there are the difficult routes that lead to being OP (blue mage + tamer in FFTA, or the Calculator in FFT), or the more general routes that encourage a diversity of play styles and cohesion. By not just having the ATB or side turn-based game, + having to take position and range into account, it ends up far more interesting.
>>888127
Da da-da-da-da-dum da-da-da-da-da da-da-da da-da-da-da-da da-da-da-da-dum.

>>888143
>FFTA
I never ever could get into that game. I don't know if it was the writing story itself was actually refreshing but some lines were just cringe-worthy, Marche was an idiot a lot of the time, or the stat system screwing me over a little compared to FFT/

>>888143
>calculator
He's only overpowered if you use him right, which is fairly challenging so you're just enjoying the benefits of having good brain power or extra time to work out your strategies.

But yes, with the right skills and used well Calculators are ridiculous.

>>888130

just so towns didn't look so flat and boring.

>>888130
Combat is not turned-based. You are seeing a repeat of the same second in time, playing over and over, until you make up your mind how the person will act.

>>888112

jeez, i had no idea so many people were bothered by this until reading tactics/dq threads on /vr/

>>887854
>this idiot
>laughing wiegraf.jpg

>>888112
They're all singing Father Abraham

>>888172
When you stare at it long enough, you just begin to wonder "what the fuck is going on" is all.

>>888112
I always thought they were warming up before dashing up to the spot you told them to when I was a kid.

You know, so they wouldn't get a cramp and miss.
>mfw they missed anyway

>>888183
Not really. It just provides the illusion that things are fluid and gives a frame of reference for time-altering spells like haste/slow/stop.

>>887850
I don't think it was just the isometric and movement space thing that made TO and FFT interesting alone, but also the damage formulas and general balance in that regard.

Units were often felled from anywhere from 1 to 5 attacks, as opposed to some JRPGs where everyone is loaded with hundreds and thousands of HP. Assuming the player's units had levels equal to the enemy's, combat was usually a lot more "fair".

>>887814
Too many casuals not playing anything prior to it.

>>887854
The last thing you usually want in the original TO is to get close to enemies. Maybe close enough to use an archer against them from across the map.

>>888085
Am I the only one who doesn't give a fuck about abusing save states when our lives as humans are limited in time?

>>888172
It triggers some people's vaguely defined yet inherently serious metal disorders

>>888143
>.MFW I recognize the tune by just reading that text

I'd say part of the draw of tactics-style games weren't just gameplay innovations, but the fact that they tended to feature rather dense high-medieval political dramas. Not exactly a genre you see well represented in video games.

>went to funco with my mom to get games with birthday money

>not really any rpgs on display.

>ask guy if they have any rpgs

>huge drawerful

>get beyond the beyond, alundra and vandal hearts.

>vandal fucking hearts

>>888625
using save states robs yourself of the experience

if the experience is shitty and you want to skip than it means the game isnt providing entertainment and you should find another

ff tactics is a not a very good game, theres so many things that slow the pacing down to a crawl from slow animations, bad interface, and heavy RNG, problems that are not present in a number of other strategy games.

It was successful because all the superior strategy games were PC games and many counsil kiddies had never played any strategy games before tactics.

Its the halo of strategy games, not amazing but got popular because it was baby's first

>>888167
Takes forever to level them up, but holy damn it's worth it.

>>889105
But medieval political dramas are clearly a niche genre of video game storytelling, so it isn't like they should draw huge crowds.

>>889212
>if the experience is shitty and you want to skip than it means the game isnt providing entertainment and you should find another

If I did that I would only ever play maybe 10-11 games. Many games which later provide entertainment require you to go through periods of slog to reach the entertainment or have somewhat minor flaws which cause you to "waste" some time, like slow text print out speeds, which can be avoided using modern emulation methods.

>ff tactics is a not a very good game, theres so many things that slow the pacing down to a crawl from slow animations, bad interface, and heavy RNG, problems that are not present in a number of other strategy games.

That's funny because FFT was one of the ones I DIDN'T need to use save states in. Tactics Ogre and Hoshigami were the ones I did.

>>889212
>It was successful because all the superior strategy games were PC games and many counsil kiddies had never played any strategy games before tactics.

I've never played a PC strategy game better than FFT because PC strategy games don't have JRPG-style plots

>FF Tactics
>Slow
Play Front Mission Alternative some time.

>>887843
Tactics Ogre was actually made by Enix, before they were same company

>>888167
>>889225

The other thing you can do is to learn a bunch of magic for the calculator and then set a mage with math skill to be used by the AI......holy shit do they rape. The AI does all the work for you.

>>887856
probably because tactics ogre and FFT were virtually the same game and Front Mission was not

Okay so,

>Things you would put in a brand new retrostyle SRPG
-Speed up option or a generally faster pace
-A mechanic or system that balances important characters with built-up recruit characters in combat (so you don't have an end game full of nothing but named characters), and also some incentive to let dead characters stay dead (instead of just resetting until ERRY FIGHT PERFECT)
I've always thought that TO/FFT would benefit from a "storyline promotion" mechanic whereby your recruits could become important characters in the story

>>889836
I'd incorporate generics that the player uses a lot into cutscenes. That would be awesome.

Have you guys played Battle for Wesnoth at all? It's a turn based strategy game with a large community for custom content. I tried it a bit and was unimpressed, particularly because I was spoiled by dem isometrics of TO and FFT, but it might have some potential.

www.wesnoth.org

>>888112

I love this, especially when a battle would start straight out of a cutscene; everyone is just standing there, arguing about something, then all of a sudden IT'S ON and everyone starts to shuffle as the battle music picks up.

>>889931
Yes, it's more Fire Emblem like than what we're talking about.

Also it's extremely luck-based.

>>889931
>>890545
Also not retro.

>>888112
>>888119
>>888127
>>888130
>>888172
>>888174
>>888183

I'm pretty sure that it's there to make the screen look less static. If they didn't move at all it would just look like a static image, a "screenshot" for most of the time. In more action-oriented games things move all the time anyway, so you don't need that. And in later 3D games you also have idle animations (breathing for example) that make the characters look at least kind of alive. With the low resolution and small characters you had in games like FF tactics you can't really display a slight breathing cycle or whatever. So the best they could come up with is a kind of "marching". Doesn't look too bad, imo. It was a good decision to make.

But that's just a theory. A GAME THEORY.

inb4 gay theory!!1

>>888112
It allows the devs to show Slow and Stop beyond little icons.

>>887814
LOL at that character name. You say "putilla" this is diminutive of whore in spanish.

>>887814
>Why was the Tactics Ogre/FFT formula so successful?

Yasourni Matsuno.

I think Tactics Ogre is a much better game than FFT

>>896354
Artwork too. In FFT every character portrait looks so bored and suicidal.

I really, really liked how the characters I spent so much time with in Ogre Battle were still in the game, but weren't the stars of it.

I liked the thought that this planet had more than one continent, and political struggles that allowed for more than one hero.

At the same time, my nigga Canopus not only got to be in the main crew, but was hands down one of the most useful characters in the game.

>>896356

Yes, character portraits really set Ogre Apart from Fantasy.

hurf durf