/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8831468
depends on what you are doing with it

you wont play donkey kong or pacman with an 8-way for example

be more specific

>>8831484
>you wont play donkey kong or pacman with an 8-way for example
Yes I will. I don't see any reason to own a 4 way stick. I'm not that obsessed with playing with the original arcade controls.

Stick with Japanese brands like Sanwa, Seimitsu, or Hayabusa. American made ones are good too. Pretty much just avoid Chinese ones if you want them to last.

>>8831468
Sanwa, Happ, Seimitsu.

>>8831516
iL Eurostick is what retro Happ used to be. Happ merged with Suzo and quality dropped.

>>8831513
An 8-way stick will get you killed in Donkey Kong when Mario suddenly doesn't want to go up a ladder because you accidentally went too far into the diagonals.

>>8831513
>>you wont play donkey kong or pacman with an 8-way for example
>Yes I will. I don't see any reason to own a 4 way stick.
Pac-Man arcade games in particular doesn't react well to diagonal inputs so a stick that can easily shift to a 4way will work better for them.

Redpill me on Seimitsu, specifically the LS32, LS40, and PS14G for fighting games.

Does anyone know what kind of stick and buttons Neo Geo arcade cabinets used? They feel stiffer and heavier than typical Happ parts in similar cabs.

>>8831538
I modded a Mayflash F500 V2 with a new model LS-32 and ps-14-g buttons.
They are extremely good. The LS-32 has a more direct, almost d-pad like feel compared to the Sanwa JLF.
PS-14-G have a deeper chunkier sound to them and are stiffer than OBSF-30. They are a little harder on your fingers in a long play session.
I primarily play classic 2d fighting games like ST and Alpha 2/3 and would not go back to JLF for them.

>>8831468
If you use a circular restrictor, you're dead to me.
8-Way Restrictors are objectively the best.
4-Way fags, you guys are ok.

>>8831542
Candy cabinets used LS-40s. American cabinets used Happs I think.

>>8831564
By the way if you put PS-14-G buttons in a F500 they will just -barely- fit. You really have to cram them in.

>>8831564
Thanks anon.

What's a good stick for shmups, specifically touhou. I have the default mayflash f500 one right now and it feels off playing those games. I also want a better one for third strike but the current stick is good for that I just want a nicer feeling one is all

>>8831578
I know they used Happ brand, but they feel different. Like most manufacturers Happ had a stable of different models so just curious if anyone knew the specifics.

>>8831468
Competition Pro

>>8831584
Many of the SNK MVS cabinets were designed with the LS-32-01 in mind I believe back when they had 5 individual spade connectors. But it doesn't really matter. They're all compatible with Sanwa as well through the usage of mounting plates. Newer cabinets and sticks have slightly different wiring though which is something owners of older cabinets need to keep in mind when purchasing replacement parts.

>>8831542
>Japan
LS-40 and ps-14-g originally.
Wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to come across a neo candy with a LS-32 replacement in it.

>North America
Looks like an IL 8-way joystick. This is similar to to IL Eurostick (aka "Competition") but a little older variation.
Buttons were IL horizontal switched.

>Europe
Not too familiar but Suzo was popular over there.

>>8831582
Here's an extra tip.
Go on ebay and buy an 18" fast food tray. Should be about ten bucks. Maybe you have one laying around already.
These are the perfect addition to a stick like F500 with a small footprint when you are playing with it on your lap. Makes the stick feel the same size as something like a Hori Fighting Edge for about half the price.

Post your sticks. No homo.

>>8831607
I'm talking American big red cabinets, not Japanese candy.

>>8831628
Gross dude.

>>8831583
At least read this instead of blindly following whatever stick someone tells you to get. I use a Seimitsu LS-56 for shmups, but you can use whatever you want.
https://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/attributes_brands.html

>>8831609
Addendum:

It's very likely that any MVS cabinet in North America will have had its joysticks replaced early in its lifespan. These were some of the most popular games in the 90s and people treated the cabinets very roughly.
What the operator replaced them with could have been anything from a "Super" joystick to a terrible Happ "Ultimate" joystick.

>>8831583
LS-40 is the original stick for 3S cabs and is also good for shmups so I'd try that.
Can't go wrong with LS-32 either.

>>8831468
Seimitsu LS-56 is extremely good. Nice very short deadzone and stiff spring.
First ever fight stick mod I did (old Datel/Mayflash sitck that had a large PCB with silicone contacts for buttons and a stick that was soldered and e-clipped in) was a LS-56 w/ octogate and OBSF-30s. Tried a JLF and a LS-40 since but they never held a candle to the that combination imo (JLF w/ octogate was still pretty nice; not at all a fan of the LS-40).

>>8831484
Totally did. Primarily played platformers and misc arcade games with mine and it was great.

Why is it so hard to find a simple case for a stick? It's not exactly hard to fabricate or expensive but they're never in stock anywhere except those cheap ones from aliexpress.

HE STILL PLAYS WITH HIS HANDS? THOSE ARE BABY GAMES.

Hayabusa joysticks are fucking trash tier. They sometimes can trigger the oppsite directional switch when simply letting go from max throw. No thank you. That hasn't happend to me even once using a Sanwa joystick. Not even when modded with an aftermarket actuator or spring.

>>8831785
Decent second hand fightsticks end up on ebay et al for pretty cheap occasionally. Using a pre-loved Mayflash V2 with a Seimitsu joystick and buttons rn.

The cheap aliexpress kits didn't seem bad desu, just limited in customisation.

I have some hobbled together stick with board from I forgot what now, mismatched sanwa and seimitsu buttons, and a Seimitsu LS-40 with replaced parts from other joysticks.. The case I have it in is broken and the plastic is crackedand split down the middle with a big gap.

Really I just need a new case. And it's been like a year since I cleaned my joystick because it's getting a bit mushy. I just need to clean it because it works fine, and the buttons as well.

>>8831520
Sanwa from Amazon. Was just way better than the default stick. It felt better and was more clicky. It wasnt even expensive.

>>8831785
I did extensive research on this subject and found that a used F500 was the best option even if you're just going to replace the joystick and buttons, unless you absolutely must have a larger case.
In that case I would recommend the PXN-X9.

>>8831583
I use a Hayabusa for everything and I love it. I've played loads of Touhou and 3S on mine and I have no complaints.

>>8831776
LS-56 w/octogate is probably better at 8-way-as-4-way mode than most other set-ups.

>>8831982
>Sanwa from Amazon.
>It wasnt even expensive.
Because it's a fake Chinese clone.

>>8832049
How much do you think is expensive?
20 bucks is not exactly a big investment

>>8832089
I'm saying it's fake because you got it from Amazon. Determine if it's fake first. It probably is. Left is real, and right is fake.

You can buy legitimate parts from sites like focusattack and arcadeshock.

My main is a modded Qanba Q4RAF Ice Blue that supports X360 & PS3 / PC out of the box through the use of a switch. It has a headset jack (that I have never used), turbo and you can assign the joystick as either d-pad or analogue stick. The latter actually came in handy to my surprise when I played the SF 15th Anniversary Collection and it wouldn't register diagonals unless the stick was in d-pad mode. On its underside it's got rubber feet and is also completely covered in black felt which prevents it from slipping around when placed on your lap.

It's got all Sanwa parts and the the modifications are:
JLF - translucent blue dust washer, shaft guard and balltop (I tried an oversized actuator and heavier spring but eventually reverted back to stock. Alos have an octagonal restrictor gate laying around but never tried it. Square for life.)
30mm buttons - plunger inserts have been switched out for opague royal blue ones (it came with translucent blues but I hated them bc they're made from 2 pieces which makes them rattle and changes the overall signature sound profile and feel way too much. The translucent blue rims I kept.
24mm start button - switched out completely since it stock was a completely off lilac color that clashed with the rest of the stick. And I'm pretty sure this single button wasn't Sanwa unlike all the others. Bought the same translucent blue rim in 24mm size and a white plunger for it.

>>8832136
How much input lag does it have?

>>8832136
This is how it looked stock for comparison.

>>8832137
Too much I believe.

>>8832137
Or rather, when in PS3/PC mode it's not great. In X360 mode it's like 2ms. PS3 mode is like 13ms though or something crazy like that.

>>8832162
>something crazy like 13ms
>there's 1 frame of input lag 11% the time to 77% of the time
Oh wow so horrid! There's some controllers that are much worse. There's not many effectively no latency controllers.

Crown 309mj KING.

>>8832209
Well, I didn't bring it up in the first place. Anyway, it's not great by comparison but the story is different in X360 mode.

>>8831468
I still use the stick that came with my madcatz te stick. Very solid quality.

>>8832250
I use two f tier sticks to this day for gaming on my pc. How the hell are they F tier? 13ms? What the hell? I've played on laggy monitors before where it was very noticeable but I've also played on arcade cabinets and while I find arcade best my sticks work fine on my monitor at home.

>>8832264
The answer is: "You're a scrub." Sometimes the truth hurts. Nah, I'm just messing with you. Remember those are PS3 results specifically. If they support other platforms the results may be different. The entire screenshot is just way to large to post here.

>>8832275
I used my sticks on ps3 back in the day on a good monitor and still didn't notice 13ms of lag. The only time I noticed extreme amounts of lag was going from my big screen TV to my gaming monitor. The difference was night and day.

>>8832291
If you don't notice it why trouble your pretty little head over it? I doubt you're at such a high level of play that it matters anyway.

What do you guys think of the Qanba Pearl?

>>8832136
>it wouldn't register diagonals unless the stick was in d-pad mode
As far as I know you should default to d-pad mode on any arcade stick.

>>8832250
usb and wireless was a mistake for controllers

>>8832209
Lag is cumulative so if you can shave 1 frame off with your joystick PCB choice you ought to do it. Those little "well it's only 1 frame" add up between your monitor, configuration, and joystick.

>>8832250
The guy who won combo breaker 2018 in ST was using an F-tier joystick.

>>8832049
Not fake

>>8832338

Like this one better.

arcade stick is the optimal way to play all non-analog retro games

>>8832495
not really

>>8832338
This and the obsidian are commonly used by EVO winners so they are probably pretty good.

>>8832516
dumdum confirmed

>>8832495
Not mario and sonic.

>>8832535
No u.
There's no reason to play Super Mario Bros. with a joystick over a d-pad.

>>8832495
yeah bro I'm gonna play Chrono Trigger on my fight stick

>>8832495
I don't really like using one for platformers, but that's probably just out of habit. Run & guns, puzzle games, shooters, fighting games and stuff I agree though, yeah

>>8832536
>>8832538
there's literally a mario arcade game...

>>8832594
Yes, and have you ever used the joystick that was installed on those cabinets? It's strictly worse than using a d-pad.

>>8832548
The stick itself is slow but precise. A dpad is faster in many instances. Especially for platforms where execution is simple and mostly relies on timing. Shmups and fighting games on the other hand profit greatly from the improved precision. Slower jump n runs are fine and actually fun with a stick bit you wouldn't want to play Super Meat Boy or Celeste using one. Imo as someone who mainly plays fighting games the one major of an arcade control layout are the buttons and the fact that you can use several fingers at once, hit two with 1 ginger, piano them etc. That is stuff that you simply cannot do with a controller even if you substantially alter your grip style. The rubber dome buttons just aren't fast enough.

>>8832547
I don't see any problem I playing chrono trigger on stick.

>>8832608
>it's worse
Where do you come to these conclusions? Post your pad and sticks so we get an idea where you're coming from.

>>8832616
I was it on AVGN

>>8832616
I come from using the joystick that is on Nintendo VS. cabinets. It's an 8 way joystick specifically the MDST-14-12. It's very sloppy and hard to make precise back and forth movements with compared to a standard NES d-pad.

>>8832613
It's silly and provides no benefit.

>>8832620
Don't start that "I'm the only person here with real experience and everyone else is a LARPping zoomer" bullshit.

>>8832629
>it's silly
Great reason.

>>8831620
One for anime fighters; Sanjuks V6 (25 shore grommet) with standard Seimitsu clear buttons inside an Etokki Omni case with UFB.
The other for older fighters and general arcade play; LS-32 with steel replacement pivot (moves like butter) Seimitsu buttons in an old refurbished TE-S using the Omni's board, though I'm thinking of swapping it out for a Pico board.
I also have a TE2+ all in black bezel, side panels, Sanwa buttons, etc with a short collar Taeyoung with Omron V-152-1A5 switches that I use for shmups.

>>8832338
I prefer the Noir style layout to the standard Viewlix that comes with he Obsidian and most other sticks. Very solid stick and pretty decent for the price if you can find one below or around $200. Modding it is somewhat of a pain, especially when it comes to changing some of the buttons as they are insanely close to PCB, but that's really just a minor gripe as I simply prefer screw-ins.

>>8832250
That list is insanely outdated.
Check out https://inputlag.science/controller/results

>>8832716
The art on that Madcatz TE-S Astro City mod is very similar to what I plan on doing too down to the button color but it will be Saturn themed. It does look nice, glad someone else thought of doing the same since you never know until you see it fully realized.

>>8832452
Yea I was thinking of getting the obsidian instead, but I think I prefer the Noir layout, since I'm mostly a 3S player I'd like to have it as close to cabinet, even if I never get to play on one I think its nice.

>>8832526
>>8832737
Cool, thanks. I'm not much interested in modding I just want a solid stick, so looks like this is what I'll go with.

The upcoming MAS NEO looks great.

https://youtu.be/MwUcC-ds_LQ

>>8832858

>>8832419
>Not fake
Are you sure about that? Sanwa isn't a Chinese company.

What are the difference between Korean joysticks compared to Sanwa and Seimitsu? I know Korean ones are the hot new joysticks that people are getting, but I have no iea what they're even like.

>>8833360
They don't use a spring, but a rubber grommet. They have a very different feel to them apparently, and usually used for Tekken and similar 3D games more than 2D ones.

>>8831982
Thats the one I am thinking about getting

>>8833368
>they don't use a spring
What, really?

>>8832538
And vice versa

>>8832752
According to this site we need to go back to DB15
usb is a mistake

>>8832250
>>8833590
I don't know about that site, but here's the results of input lag tests with lots of different controllers

https://rpubs.com/misteraddons/inputlatency

1 frame of input lag is 16 ms. So if your stick has 8 ms of input lag, you don't get half a frame of input lag because that's not how it works. You either have a frame of input lag, or you don't. So what happens is there's a 50% chance that you'll have a frame of input lag. Brook UFB is an example of a zero latency board because the chance that you'll have a frame of input lag is miniscule. For a controller, anything below 16 ms is acceptable. Input lag doesn't just depend on the controller, but your system, and the software your running (such as the game) has input lag as well. Most of the input lag will be caused by the game itself. By the end of it, 3 frames of input lag is pretty much ideal. 6 frames of input lag is passable (everything combined), but anything higher than that is a problem.

Really, you either deliberately have a zero latency board or it doesn't matter as long as the latecy is below 16 ms. If your board has 5 ms of latency you will be getting a frame of input just not on every single input. So it really doesn't matter. If you have a 8ms latency board it may as well be 16 ms because you'll get getting a frame of input lag every other input.

>>8833590
It’s not really usb, it’s the low polling rates of the device
Either way, wireless is faster so wired is not really that important anymore

>>8831969
dem sanwa dudes they aint know about them bat sticks. u get them precisoin shoryuken with them. too much much clicking with them japanese stiks man

>>8833620
Bat tops are shit. You'll never have the minute precision of finely rolling a ball on your palm and adjusting so slightly the angle you press the ball at.

People with bat tops have to whack the shit out of the stick and they think that's good. It's not and it's just stupid Korean shit.

>>8833637
Bat tops are the best

I have this dreamcast arcade stick. And i got the pc raphnet adapter for it. And i learned something terrible about it. You cant use the outside buttons i circled. Because when you map these buttons on mame. It doesnt map as a single button. Its some button + something else. So these buttons are useless. If you try to do something in a game it does two things at once. And i think i learned its because those outside buttons are actually supposed to emulate the dreamcast controllers triggers or something. L1 and r1 i think. I dont know. How is this even possible. The 4 middle buttons will map as a single normal button like how its supposed to be but the outside buttons are like glitched something else. And this ruined it for me. I didnt know this was possible.
I am guessing the sega saturn arcade stick would do the same thing.

>>8833747
You can play arcade games and shmups with it.

>>8833747
Even if it maps as two buttons you should still be able to use it as long as those two buttons are not in conflict with the main four in the center.

>>8833783
If you are playing shmups on dreamcast with it. Those outside buttons make the ships just do a little L manuver. Just a little right angle move. Its werid.
>>8833808
From what i remember it causes everything to just fuck up. Because its like using a d-pad with a button.

>>8833614
The Mayflash rating on this is outdated. The released new drivers for the F500 and F500 V2 that will get latency down to 2ms.

>>8833783
or any Neo Geo game.

>>8833312
Even if its fake. Its still good.
It feels good enough for me.
If i ever buy another one. I would get them from the legit sites you mentioned though. I didnt know amazon does stuff like this.

>>8834019
Why don't you just find out if it's fake and if it is then demand a refund?

>>8834019
>I didnt know amazon does stuff like this.
What? Dude, Amazon is being flooded with counterfeit products. Depending on what you're looking for it's more likely to receive a fake than the genuine article. It's barely usable anymore.

The fake Sanwa parts in this stick are great. It's better than the Street Fighter IV non-TE fightstick. Somehow MadCatz stumbled onto a perfect Sanwa alternative in a stick for the Wii of all things. The buttons are a hair stiffer which I love.

>>8833637
What about the bigger balls?

>>8834248
>Street Fighter IV non-TE fightstick
The Mayflash sticks had clone button housing where you could just drop in legit Sanwa microswitches. Have a spare SFIV non-TE stick so curious to see if this the same

>>8834250
The ladies love the bigger balls.

What internal parts of a Sanwa JLF need to be replaced in order to be able to consider it fully serviced and make it feel like new again? I'm thinking: pivot, micro switches and probably the actuator?

>>8834312
>replacing all that shit
>but not the spring
A thorough cleaning, a new spring, and then lubrication. Are the microswitches bad? They're soldered on the PCB, and I don't know why you'd replace them unless they went bad. You can replace the actuator and pivtor but I don't know if it'd make a difference or if they even wear though they are moving parts they're just hunks of material.

>>8834250
I inject saline into my balls to achieve this.

>>8834242
I was out of the loop. Why does Amazon allow this? I thought it was an American site.

>>8834361
Amazon doesn't give a shit about quality anymore. If someone complains they just force the seller to refund.

>>8833637
Meanwhile Infiltration used a bat top to win Evo titles.

>>8834267
The SE sticks do not have Sanwa clone housings. The buttons sit a little taller and are more rounded on them.
However, I think the microswitches will still swap.

>>8834336
Oh yeah, the spring. Of course. Why change the switches you ask? Because they're subject to wear like all the moving parts in there?

>>8834361
>I thought it was an American site.
You type that like it means something.

>>8832864

This one's looking great!

Anyone seen these Mayflash Fighting Stick Wii? They seem like a clone of the Hori ones, they're only 17€.
https://www.todoconsolas.com/gb/accesorios-wii/20603-fighting_stick_mayflash_wii_wii_u_7681-6988201006097.html

They could be a good source for cases but there's not a single interior photo online.

>>8834389
Dirt can get inside the micro switches, but you can do some tests to see if the micro switches need to be replaced after you doing a cleaning and changing the spring. But really if the micro switches need to be replaced you have two options. You can remove the solder on them and solder new micro switches on. Or you can buy a replacement PCB with the micro switches on them for almost the cost of a brand new JLF. Unless you're going to solder new micro switches on yourself the new parts all together will probably cost about as much as an entire brand new JLF.

https://focusattack.com/sanwa-tp-ma-pcb-assembly/

Do you have a Sanwa clone lying around? the PCB and micro switches on one of those will probably work with a real one.

>>8834427
Yeah, I've noticed the replacement parts aren't exacty cheap and one might as well just buy a new stick at that point, true. I don't have any other joysticks. Mine doesn't really need servicing that badly right now. I'm just asking for future reference because it's bound to happen at some point right?

Which /vr/ related joystick do you think the trannymods stick up their asshole?

>>8834407
So the usa is just a garbage country now that has no morals or quality.
But the chinese are a menace that copy everything. They are weridos that break copywriting laws and clone everything and think they Are badass for doing it.

>>8831513
Mine have an 8/4 way conversion plate on them. 8-way definitely makes Pacman and Donkey Kong unplayable. Likewise fighting games need 8-way.

>>8834558
>They are weridos that break copywriting laws and clone everything and think they Are badass for doing it.
Nose please

Anyone with a Seimitsu LS-33 or LS-56 want to help me out? I need to know how far apart and how off center the screw holes are on the restrictor plate. I'm thinking about modding an old Hori V3 and the stick is mounted by the restrictor.

>>8835063
On my LS-56 they're somewhere between 4-5 mm off centre.

>>8835145
That's a shame, I was hoping for 2mm and 48mm apart. Thanks anyway.

>>8831468
Silent Scope arcade rifle.
Bet you didn't know that!

>>8834421
Managed to find a link to a mod on the Hori fighting stick Wii, this is very advanced modding, might just get the Mayflash F300 and be done with it.
https://www.outdatedreferences.com/2017/09/how-to-mod-hori-ex2hori-wii-fighting.html

>>8831468
It really depends on the player using them.

>japanese clown nose sticks
They're the most sensitive and allow for comfort during long sessions.

>euro/american joysticks
these are the least precise but still work well in the hands of a masher or kof player.

>>8831468
Sanwas are alright and kinda the entry level/universal model of Japanese levers.
Seimitsus come in a large variety and utilize levers on their switches offering tighter diagonals and, depending on the model, a more responsive feel.
Hori sticks are just a Sanwa clone, which is about as good, if not a little bit looser.
Anything else of the Japanese style/design, aside from a Sanjuks V3 or other quality custom levers, is inferior.

Happ and Suzo are kinda antiquated and felt really unresponsive when last I used them, but they were on some pretty old hardware. Some people prefer them, but most only like them for the sake of nostalgia.

Korean style levers offer a ton of variety and customization, but generally fall into two categories, the Crown style or the classic Fanta style. There are endless hybrids and versions with interchangeable and custom made parts; it is quite the insane rabbit hole to fall into.

Japanese spring based levers are mostly preferred for 2D fighters and other 2D games, especially ones that utilize circular motions. Whereas Korean levers are the standard for 3D fighters and games. They offer an increasing resistance that is more noticeable than springs due to using rubber/silicone grommets. These generally have a faster return to neutral as well.

>>8835223
They;re 32mm a part.

>>8833312
The seller isn't the manufacturer.

>>8835379
Where do you think the counterfeit Sanwa are coming from, genius? They're not coming from Japan or legitimate arcade stores.
>>8832129