/vr/ - Retro Games

Everyone's first Zelda is the "OMG greatest game EVAR!", thus every time a new Zelda is released you get a new horde of people arguing that *that one* is the best.

>>8807630
>It's the same game every time, isn't it?
No.

>>8807639
I've bought zelda every time it comes out because of the glowing reviews yet every time I'm disappointed.

>>8807630
Literally every Zelda fan hates at least one Zelda game.

I used to like OoT a lot more a decade ago, but nowadays I'm a lot more neutral. By N64 standards? Yeah, it's pretty good, it's certainly in the top 10 games for that console. Over all systems and eras? It's just an okay game. I doubt even hardcore fans of Zelda would suggest that Ocarina of Time has the best combat, or the best puzzles, or is skill-based in any way. There's probably dozens and dozens of games that I would rather play before Ocarina of Time, but it's still not a bad bad, but it's just one entertaining game. And there are lots of other games that entertain me more. I would probably say that every Mario game entertains me more than Zelda, and I think that's just 1 easy thing to suggest that I think most Zelda players know.

>>8807763
I'm glad you're so sensible. Most of the faggots here have to be on some extreme end of the spectrum, everything is either total shit or the best thing ever.

>>8807630
>I'm not even trolling
>these games have such a blindingly accepting fanbase
I swear the majority of vidya posters have failed English class in middle school or are still attending it.

>>8807630
They're generally well made but its obvious to actual gamers they are bloated and a bit bland. Were they made by anyone but Nintendo nobody would give a shit about them the way they do.

>>8807879
Why do people obsess over Sonic even though the majority of games are terrible?

>>8807894
How about you make a thread about it instead of shifting the goal posts.

>>8807879
>actual gamers
You sound insufferable.

>>8807630
Literally the only Zelda game that has ever been considered to be the "greatest of all time" was Ocarina of Time, which came out nearly 24 years ago now.
Majora's Mask and Wind Waker were great games on their own, but literally nobody considers any of the other games to be the "GOAT".
My advice is to only play the N64 3D games and maybe ALTTP on SNES and LA on GB. Otherwise, the rest of the series isn't worth playing.

I prefer Zelda 1, 2, A Link to the Past because they are faster and harder, and are more fun to me as a result. The only thing Ocarina of Time does better is atmosphere and slow-pace. Perhaps Ocarina of Time fans are all drug users?

>>8807916
Look up a bunch of lists for best NES, SNES, or Game Boy games. You will very certainly see a Zelda game regarded as one of the best games on a system. In fact, you can do this for the Gamecube, Wii and Wii U as well. I don't really even care about Zelda that much, but it's obvious that people do consider them highly generally. But yeah, a lot of it is definitely coming from people who only play Nintendo games.

>>8807763
You can't really get a good read on a game by dissecting its parts like that. I don't think I would enjoy a game that had the most technically sophisticated puzzles or the best possible combat system, same as how I don't like music where the selling point is the guitarist being a virtuoso who pick a trillion notes per second. It's the overall experience that makes a game like OoT or a band like the Beatles get so over the top popular and appreciated. It's hard to think of a better experience than playing OoT when it first came out and getting that 1st person camera Navi flying into your treehouse intro scene before setting out in a magical 3D woodland fantasy world to get your first sword and shield and embark on your first quest.

>>8807953
Based and real answer pilled. The zelda series has a special vibe that resonates with people.

The only good Zelda game is the original. The rest are either weird side-scrolling mediocre games or shitty full on storyshit with poor to downright awful fucking gameplay.

>>8808002
Y'all should be honest, now that the dust has settled we should agree that the hecking Zeldino 1 was a scam to force kids into buying guides and calling the clue hotline.

>>8807630
zoom zoom

>>8807630
Zelda 1,2 and Link to the Past were released in a time when adventure/exploration games that had combat which was both real time and actually good were very, very rare. Usually your exploration/adventure games had turn based combat or had action combat that was barely tolerable (think early Ys).

Ocarina of time was one of the early 3D games that experimented more then being a game about killing everything you find and picking up everything that glows. It had drama and a lot of ways to interact with the world which was rare for games that were not point and click.

Those are the big Zelda games. They are very good for their time and among the best action adventure games available for their time. Zelda games after that are merely good. They are solid action adventure games but they no longer do anything new and you can find plenty of other action adventures.

>>8808027
Hardly anyone bought first hand guides. If you owned a guide it probably wasn't made by Nintendo so they didn't see a dime.

I guess they were just being nice.

It's just a series designed to appeal to as broad a demographic as possible, being playable for 5 year olds without alienating 20 year olds (or 20 year olds who play games like 5 year olds). Zelda, especially in its modern state, is baby's first action adventure game but with a thick coat of grown-up friendly paint.

>>8807785
His grammar is perfectly fine you hypersensitive actual ESL

>>8807785
ok write it better mr. english pro

>>8807916
Ok so when Breath of the Wild came out a ton of reviewers weren't giving it perfect scores and they weren't calling it the greatest ever made?
Shit the original is considered the best of the 8 bit era, and LTTP, the best of the 16bit era etc...

>>8807785
what's wrong with the first one's grammar? second yeah sure

>>8808153
>Buzzwords and boilerplate phrases
Nothing you say has any meaning, just like your worthless, pitiful existence.

>>8807906
Better than being a casual.

>>8807916
The original NES game is far and away the best game in the entire series.

>>8807947
>In fact, you can do this for the Gamecube, Wii and Wii U as well.
Wrong

>>8808172
Every big game that comes out gets called "the greatest game of all time", it's a meaningless phrase to generate hype. If people are still saying it ten years after launch then it may mean something. OoT is still called the greatest game of all time by many people 24 years later. You can't really compare that staying power to what BotW has experienced.

>>8807630
Breath of the wild looks decent but the old ones got boring quick I agree. A quick 20+ game and then nothing else

>>8807630
I've noticed there are people who really crave the familiarity, people who would binge watch the same movie, etc. I never like to experience somethinf twice unless a LOT of time has passed. I think zelda fags just like their repetition and comfort. Tbh zelda games aren't that good. I love mario WAY more.

>>8808002
I agree the original zelda is really good, and everything was heavily derivative after, BUT links awakening adds more flair, polishes mechanics + adds unique things, and has a very unique setting. I can see OOT being highly regarded due to the leap to 3D. I can see majoras mask being liked due to a very unique world. desu alttp is T R A S H.

>>8808172
You're on >>>/vr/, keep it retro, anon

>>8808404
Keep your entirely original opinion, hipster

>>8808083
>you can find plenty of other action adventures
i struggle to find a single one.
closest thing that satified a similar itch was sands of time to be honest. everything else just doesnt measure
I think the real question for this thread is why people can't just take someone saying a zelda game is their GOAT at face value. Everyone thinks that person has some ulterior motive or is mentally unfit in some way. I dont understand why nobody cares what your favorite game is until its a zelda game, and then everyone wants to convince you that you're wrong.

>>8807648
To Nintendo it only matters that you keep buying them

>>8807783
Thanks but who the fuck are you?

>>8807630
I'll tell you why because it's was the first skyrim game

Zelda Classic is still the best Zelda game and I'll fight any of you dorks that disagree.
Though I guess it's more of a source port than a game, but I've still played some of the best Zelda games on it.

>>8807630
not all of them are though, it was just OoT and BotW

I wish people didn’t call Zelda good because of their nostalgia and I didn’t waste money on breath of the wild. The end of game combat and the environment looks nice everything else is shit. It’s just climbing mountains and solving annoying puzzles fuck off. Wish I could skip to the end just to kill shit with the super powers everything else is awful even the enemies are shit. Indestructible death robot or dumb trolls.

Botw is shit the gameboy games are shit the n64 games are shit and the GameCube games were beyond shit

>>8808757
Oh and I cant even learn the controls because everything breaks if I touch it and everything is severely limited. BUT MUH ZELDA

>>8807650
Wrong, I'm a Zelda fan and hate all Zelda games (except the original)

>It's the same game every time, isn't it?
Try actually playing more games than Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, and then get back to us.

>>8807763
Well, if we're going to do this, you have to come up with one game that does OOT better than OOT, because usually people just start coming out with games like Okami and Shadow of the Colossus when the conversation gets to this point, and those games absolutely do not top OOT, if they're even trying to.

>>8808839
>run
>do puzzles
>run

The fucktards couldn’t even do that right and ruined it with breaking weapons

>>8807630
We all know which one is objectively the greatest.

>>8808854
You can break down about half of all games to a formula like that, if you really want to.

>>8807630
>t's the same game every time, isn't it
It always makes me laugh when people associate Nintendo games with stagnation/killing the industry/every game is the same etc. Nigga as opposed to WHAT exactly? What company? What franchise?

>>8808894
every madden game is a groundbreaking and unique masterpiece

>>8807894
They're furries.

>>8808891
Yeah but combat and earning new weapons and armor is at least fun and a thing in other games

I felt like the recent dbz game blew that pile of dog shit out of the water

>>8808917
The fighting game? Why are you comparing that to Zelda? Zelda is about adventure.

>>8808894
Elder scrolls from daggerfall -> morrowind -> oblivion radically different games. Nintendo can be prime stagnation they do it on purpose because they knows sois will ree and shit if the games deviate from their safe funbox ex. LoZ: WW. More proof? Kirby, look how long it took for them to to do something significantly different with kirby. Case CLOSED.

>>8808926
>Elder scrolls from daggerfall -> morrowind -> oblivion radically different games.
Compared to the jump from ALttP to OOT, to WW, not really.

>>8808926
Or jesus christ Nintendo only liberated itself on the switch. By btfoing the mario mandate for odyssey, and twink having a blue tunic, Kirby in a 3D platformer F I N A L L Y.

>>8808926
Oh, and Nintendo don't make Kirby. HAL does.
Plus, they have been making significantly different Kirby games since Dream Course on SNES. Half of all Kirby games are some weird experiment.

>>8808930
Come at me you autistic cretin I'll drag your fat smelly ass out of your neckbear lair kicking and screaming and explain to you just how wrong you are. Only someone with their mind rotted by soitendo could say something as stupid as this.

>>8808937
Zelda literally went from 2D to 3D. Elder Scrolls only ever went from shitty 3D, to slightly less shitty 3D, and you think that's a bigger leap.

>>8808589
I tried to summarize this. But with zelda I've noticed this pattern: game 1) be nintendo radical and implement SOME new things
IF Sois don't shit themselves
2)Sequel that polishes mechanics and has crazy unique ambience/ art design

And these sequels are just quirky asset flips/ sonic oc-tier recolors
Repeat.

>>8807894
voices in your head aren't people
and the furry fandom doesn't count, they only care about the characters but don't give a shit about the games

>>8808948
But no you goddamned autistics just COULD NOT tolerate windwaker, it's a miracle BOTW even happened.

>>8808942
Those games are literally never an ASSET flip. They have entire new art design and went from fantasy life simulator, to RPG l, to normie accesible RPG. All new assets EVERYTIME.

>>8808953
There's one Zelda game that's an asset flip, and it makes up for it by having a completely different gameplay system.
Bethesda have been using the same engine since Morrowind, by the way.

>>8808963
links awakening, Oracle of seasons and ages are literally built off eachother. Minish cap, spirit tracks, phantom hourglass ALL ripped off WW art design. Nintendo just figured out they can lazily repackage shit and you retards will still buy it. Less work, and more money.

>>8808969
And yes of course the most shameless of them all Majoras mask a LITERAL IN YOUR FACE ASSET FLIP. Give me another highly regarded franchise that's done something as shameless.

>>8808969
Fucking four swords, alttp, and link between worlds are all based off the same shit.

BOTW and Wind waker are the only games I'll give nintendo respect for.

>>8808969
Okay, some of the handheld games are developed more lazily than the console ones. Even then, Minish Cap isn't an asset flip of Wind Waker. Are you stupid?
>>8808971
Besthesda games, for one. Elderscrolls and Fallout all use the same engine, and liberally recycle things like animations.

>>8807630
Because every Zelda game is the greatest of all time.

>>8808975
I said art style. The chuchu and link look so goddamn similar. Are you artblind? Ontop of being faceblind autistic C R E T I N.

>>8808982
So Elderscrolls uses generic realism for every game, and that's innovation, but Zelda cycles through four or five majorly different art styles over the course of it's existence, and that's just doing the same thing?
I'd assume you were trolling me, honestly, but people get pretty autistic around these parts, so it's hard to tell sometimes.

I rest my case zelda fans are just comfort gamers who enjoy playing the same shit over and over just like a chick watching sex in the city when she's pmsing. And comfort gamers GET THE FUCKING ROPE.

>>8808990
You're literally championing a company that has used the same engine for seven games (soon eight), over the course of almost 20 years.
You're championing a company that thought Fallout 76 was worth releasing.

>>8808990
You mad. Now please have a proper meltdown in this thread so a janny can ban you.

>>8808757
Not retro. Take your complaints about the new games to /v/. Unless you're too scared of the average /v/ poster and would prefer trolling the easily baited idiots here.

>>8808995
I mean the art style was different everytime. In the elder scrolls series they redesigned every single weapon/armor.

>>8808926
>Elder scrolls from daggerfall -> morrowind -> oblivion radically different games
Fuck off with this shit jesus christ

>>8809021
Cringe it up soitendo fan.

>>8809018
Barely. It's all just generic fantasy realism. There's a much huger leap in style from Wind Waker to Twilight Princess, to Skyward Sword, and then Breath of the Wild.

>>8809029
Skyward sword is just cartoonized twilight princess. Also you're totally not respecting how amazing and interesting the world of Morrowind.

>>8809018
>I mean the art style was different everytime
Have you even seen screenshots of Zelda games or are you just shitposting because it's made by Nintendo?

>>8809031
>Skyward sword is just cartoonized twilight princess
Not really though. Compare enemy designs. Completely different style.

>>8809034
I will visually decimate you. Let me see if I can spare the time to get a collage going.

>>8809043
But why? All Zelda games really do look different. Only OoT and MM share the same engine and even then they have different aesthetics. When it comes to visual design Zelda is actually one of the more diverse series

It's the american nintendo millennials rewriting history and declaring every nintendo title to be "revolutionary" or "innovative".

Because americans are consumerist drones and their main experience with video games is with consoles rather than home computers.

Reminder:
Ultima > Zelda
Quake > Mario 64
Half-Life > OoT

>>8809054
I'm sorry I don't know if you're the same guy that said elder scrolls doesn't have a unique art style, but I cannot. I just. there is no way you can't see the similarities.

>>8809063
to lonk

>>8808894
honestly, i think they change too much sometimes. sure there's some samey crap like pokemon and nsmb, but besides that idk it seems like always feel to need to tack something on to a new game. sometimes it works out though ig

>>8809062
>let's just compare completely different games and genres
Why are PC purists always like this?

>>8809064
more same lonk

>>8809063
Those all just look like background characters in a generic fantasy movie. Suaron's less popular cousins.

>>8809068
I compared games that came out in the same rough time frame.

Also, remember when nintendo hopped on the "open world tower climber" train when western developers were already abandoning it, and then nintendrones declared it to be "the greatest game of all time" because they've never seen an open world adventure game before lol.

>>8809069
They use the Wind Waker design the most, but most franchises are comfortable never iterating on basic designs or art styles. It's a weirdly selective thing to single out Zelda over. How many Yakuza games are there set in the same basic locations, featuring Kiryu, looking the same, wearing the same clothes?

>>8809064
left: soul
right: soulless

Look how innovative, I think it's the same fucking sprite!

Of course the obvious one to add to this shameful collection of images.

>>8809076
Yeah, except BotW isn't really that similar to other open world games. How many open world games are actually about exploring the world at your own pace, and being encouraged to engage with the environment, rather than walking from quest marker to quest marker?

>Dude, Doom 2 uses sprites from Doom 1
Okay?

Anyways I know I btfo you off with saying elder scrolls has the same fucking art. I have 3 pictures of a goddamn chu chu pulled up from wind waker, minish cap, phantom hourglass and spirit tracks. Look they used the exact same fucking base art for 3 different fucking consoles. Zelda fans deserve nothing good for defending this shit. Actually looking at it BOTW is honestly the most radical change yet.

>>8809095
And you know what less time making assets and new art means. It means less money you have to pay up to employees. You zelda fans deserve your fucking tasteless asset and art flips. You deserve it flowing down your mouth and through your longs like the longiest steamiest diarrhea shit ever had by a nip.

>>8809095
Elderscrolls art style has shifted a lot less than Zelda's over the years, and you're only further proving yourself wrong.

>>8809064
Nice filter, now let's look at actual screenshots. Does pic related look like Twilight Princess to you?

Elder Scrolls anon, what are your thoughts on the Dragon Quest series?

>>8809107
I can't say I've ever played them, but from looking at the lead characters of some different games they all have different outfits/hairstyles. So respectable in that regard.

>>8809085
Like every CRPG?
You could do whatever the fuck you want in Gothic for example, the game let you do anything and had no artificial barriers.

>>8809112
Link's hat is a bird in Minish Cap.

Even mario gets more fucking artwork done on him than link. I honestly think some of you are looking at the manually art which makes you think these games are radically different. Then you see the actual final product and it's the same goddamned sprite, baka.

>>8809113
No, those are games where you wander around a world, following quest lines, as opposed to the world itself being the content. BOTW is spiritually more like Minecraft.

>>8809118
Mario 2, and Mario Galaxy 2 reused assets. Guess you're full of shit.

>>8809112
>they all have different outfits/hairstyles
So that's what it boils down to, huh...

>>8809128
No being a shameless asset flip, yes. Actually dragon quest is proof you can have a consistent art style without having to resort to asset flipping

How do you feel about the original sprite for Megaman appearing in at least eight games?

>>8809131
These characters would all have very unique silhouettes, just like my daedric armor guys, but lonk would be basically the same.

>>8809118
>the same goddamned sprite
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gygeohZIaw4&ab_channel=8-BitEvolution

>>8809131
>Malibu Stacy has a new hat

>>8809131
Does anyone else find it peculiar how japanese franchises don't seem to care about lore or world consistency, and treat franchises more like a loose collection of tropes, themes and imagery?
Not saying it's a bad or a good thing, but it feels weird compared to western games that try to keep a unified,coherent universe (and often fail).

>>8809132
haram

>>8809141
That's not necessarily true. On the Japanese side, you have the Metal Gear or Yakuza Series, and on the Western side you have Quake or Wolfenstein.

>>8809139
I really respect zelda 1-> zelda 2. I don't know how it did commercial, but I'd have to guess all those radical changes were too much for early zelda fans.

>>8809153
You just have a bias for games arbitrarily changing established formulas. Taking something that works, and continuing to expand and iterate on it isn't a less valid way of designing games.
The smart thing to do, if you're going to make as radical a change as Zelda 2, is to make a new franchise, and then neither game's fanbase feels like they were thrown under the bus.

>>8809141
No, they do care. It's more like they are all set in the same universe but not direct continuations of each other like>>8809150
For example one of my favorite Dragon Quest 8 moments is when the Great Bird tells you that people used to call her Ramia (the bird from Dragon Quest 3) and you're like
>Oh shit! It's that bird! It's her!
I like franchises that do this. You can play any game you want without having played the previous entries but every game still has callbacks or easter eggs to please longtime fans

>>8807630
>Why is every Zelda game considered on the greatest of all time?
Because the fanbase is retarded and doesn't know better.

>>8809160
Yeah why would I want to play the same game over and over that's pretty gay. Like watching the first season of spongebob on repeat.

>>8809178
They're not the same game. They're games that iterate on a basic formula, while always bringing something new to the table.

>beat like 30 Mega Man games
>all numbered Yakuza games
>most Dragon Quest games including the original versions of the first 4 games that look even more samey
You call it repetition I call it tradition. I beat all Zelda games except for multiplayer shit too and trust me, they are FAR from being the same game over and over again

>>8807763
OoT is great the first time around, you focus less on the game contents and more on the immersion it provides. Then you go back to it adn realize the contents are really fucking shit and the devs treat you like a mindless puppet and their push for 3D meant the Z targeting system is a major stepback.

>>8808651
>h-hipster
It's an extremely well-designed game that people dismiss because it's mechanically limited. They then proceed to make or praise shitty walking simulators and story games that are less engaging and less challenging with awkward pacing and no sense of exploration and discovery.
>I dont understand why nobody cares what your favorite game is until its a zelda game, and then everyone wants to convince you that you're wrong.
It's pretty much only Zelda fans that do this. And even then it's mostly just Ocarina fans, with a handful of ALTTP fans. Most people advocating for a GOAT at the very least qualify with a genre.

Super Mario 3, Dark Souls, and maybe Minecraft are the only other games I can think of that are routinely asserted to be GOAT games without genre qualification.

>>8809103
Yes

>>8809153
>I don't know how it did commercial
AoL did very well commercially.
It was a good game it just wasn't the sequel players expected and its fanbase is different.

>>8809296
I don't see a problem with that. Mario 3 is one of the greatest 2D platformers ever and Dark Souls is one of the best action-adventure games ever. So yeah, they pretty much are among the greatest

>>8809141
I find it awesome. Westerners' obsession with timelines is autistic and fun-killing. The worst of all are those niggers who see an easter egg reference and go "see hurr that's PROOF they occurred in x order".

>>8809405
It's interesting how the arcade/console vs home computer divide between japan and west is still felt to this day in things like these.
Western devs are very simulation oriented, as in, they want to simulate a world and then hope a game emerges out of it.
Must be the DnD autism and its heritage.

>>8807630
journalists doing marketing tells people to think it, so they think it. It's literally that easy to convince people.

>>8809063
They all have this look like "I don't want to be here." That's the Elder Scrolls look to me and I think it encapsulates playing the games well too.

>>8808845
Pic rel topps Link

>>8808990

>>8807630
No one is calling Skyward Sword the greatest game of all time.

>>8808027
inbf
>zelda was never good.

>>8808917
I sincerely hope you're not talking about Kakarot

>>8809338
Yeah but still none of those games are shilled as GOAT half as often as Ocarina of Time. And of those I can actually see an argument for Dark Souls because it's such an effective fusion of several different historical gameplay genres. Ocarina of Time gets a massive boost due to its core fanbase being kids who were 7-11 years old in 1998. They were at a perfect age to biased to Nintendo and blissfully ignorant of the rest of the world, much moreso than any generation before or since.

Stunning. And brave.

>>8809684
I have a hard time coming up with games I think are a better overall package than OOT. There are games I like more, like Metal Slug, but that's a game for a niche audience. Maybe MGS3, Maybe Half Life, maybe RE4. There's not a hell of a lot that jumps out at me.

Zelda games are highly polished and experiment just enough to feel familiar while ensuring each title has their own identity. The best Zelda games also nail at what they're seeking to do:

LoZ: A perfect 8-bit action adventure game

AoL: A fast paced action RPG where the difficulty is part of the appeal

ALttP: A grand adventure that blends exploration with dungeon-crawling and combat

Most Zelda games are great. The stretch from LoZ to OoS/OoA is pretty much perfect. The Wind Waker onwards is where things start to get messy, but even TWW has a lot going for it.

>>8808659
4chan is filled with unhappy people that take their frustration out on trying to destroy things other people like. If someone says they like something they will be negative about it.

As for comparable action adventure games. Resident evil, 3D beat em ups, ratchet and clank. By the time the ps2/gamecube era arrived Zelda's combat was dated so the action isn't that great and the adventure parts are simply too easy. Plus we have open world games to provide exploring.

>>8807763
I'm playing it for the first time in like 4 or 5 years and yeah it isn't as good as I remember. Still a fantastic game, especially when you think about it in the context of its release and the games it was competing against and everything it brought to the table. But does it hold up as the greatest game ever made? Not anymore. I can name games with better stories. I can name games that have better mechanics. I can name games with better replay value. And I'm not trying to be contrarian or anything: I think the music is absolutely fantastic (probably top 5 of any video game ever released. I don't like how the zelda series diverged to orchestral, and now ambient shit. OoT/MM/WW with its looping soundtracks have a distinct sound that improves the games tremendously and give the games sovl and character). I think for a system whose graphics often look like dogshit smeared with petroleum jelly it has a charm and I still prefer the N64 look over the 3DS look. But after taking a break from it for a while and coming back to it I think some of the nostalgia has started to fade away and I can analyze it without rose tinted glasses.
On a side note I grew up with an NES and N64 in my house so I played a ton of Zelda 2 as a kid, but I have never played LTTP. I've never even beaten it. I get frustrated when people call link to the past the best because I can see their arguments and the game looks beautiful but I don't have an emotional attachment to it. I wish I played it growing up

>>8809908
Zelda is appealing because it presents such a cohesive experience though. It's a real adventure. It's not just an action game, or a puzzle game. There are other games that do the Zelda thing, like say Okami or Megaman Legends, but on the whole they don't tend to be quite as good as Zelda.

>>8809930
Easy to say in the context of LTTP or OoT when having a giant, empty world with like 30 NPCs scattered across the whole map really DID make a game feel like a living, breathing world. Zelda isn't the king of immersion anymore I don't think. Skyrim feels much more "alive" than BotW. Hell even Daggerfall feels more alive lmao

>>8809935
Actually I should have used OoT and WW. LTTP isn't empty at all

>>8809935
>skyrim
>botw
>>>/v/

>>8809935
It's not about immersion. It's about adventure. The formula of a Zelda game is pretty much about splitting the difference between openness, and very carefully scripted events. When I think of OOT, I think of wandering around the fields and the towns, but I also think of the high drama moments like the bossfights, sneaking into the Gerudo fortress, racing Ingo to release Epona.

>>8809951
This is also why BotW comes across strangely as a Zelda game. Because all of those crescendo moments were de-emphasised, in favour of more in-between.

>>8809951
That's a good point. Come to think of it I'm not sure why tf Zelda ever gets labeled as "puzzle" games. Like I guess OoT does have puzzles but nothing too crazy aside from pulling some blocks a few paces or looking around the room for an obvious switch to hit. As an action/adventure game OoT is great

>>8809930
I think the official illustrations pulled a lot of weight in giving the series its aesthetic weight especially oot and mm. You could read a strategy guide having never played the game and feel immersed in it. If you only play the game you might even miss out on the full experience when so much of the appeal comes from sources extrinsic to the game itself.

>>8809153
>>8809335
Here's Famitsu's review

>>8809720
>I have a hard time coming up with games I think are a better overall package than OOT.
OOT alienates a lot of potential players due to the slow pacing and "do this task for me, kid" style of quest sequences. The combat is just OK, it's innovative and full of great ideas but not quite polished and doesn't mesh well with the environmental exploration. The world is really not that big.

Like most flagship Nintendo games it's full of polish and has a lot of great mechanical detail and balance. But there's nothing special about Ocarina vs any other Zelda in that regard, other than being the 3D game that blew the minds of kids born from 1987-1992 or so when they played it for the first time.

>>8810119
Majora's Mask is a shorter game. Wind Waker is a shorter game. Twilight Princess has a core gimmick that doesn't particularly excite me, and is padded with stuff that isn't very fun. Skyward Sword has a core gimmick that doesn't really excite me and is padded with stuff that isn't very fun. OOT still stands out to me as the best all-rounder, as far as that era of Zelda goes, though I can appreciate the unique quirks of Majora's Mask and Wind Waker.

>>8810119
Ocarina's combat isn't BAD though. As "simple" as it can be I really, really love fighting Stalfos especially if you're dealing with two. I do find it annoying how the AI won't attack you if you aren't targeting them though but I think that's because it was their first go at a 3D sword swinging game and they didn't want the player to feel cheated with cheap stalfos hits from the back

>>8810139
For what it is, Majora is really fun. For a game made on such short notice with borrowed assets it really is great how they kept the time gimmick but instead of going from kid to adult you're exploring a pretty similarly sized game with a 3 day mechanic instead. Both are good games. WW is fun as well but the ocean is very gay and exists just to make the next-gen game seem much bigger than it actually is

>>8807639
Pokemon effect.
But in truth, ALttP and OoT are absolutely definitive

>>8809963
Zelda games mostly have navigational and situational puzzles. If you have good observational skills, they’re rarely challenging, but I find them almost always rewarding to solve.

>>8807630
entire series screams Reddit up the ying yang, the only nob-Reddit game in the series was Zelda 2 but even that is becoming more and more Redditfied

>>8810146
If anything I might like Majora's Mask more than I like Ocarina. I just don't if I can rightly call it the better game.

>>8810160
fair point, I feel the same way. I flip flop between the two and it usually just ends up being whichever of the two I am currently replaying at the moment I find more enjoyable than the other. Then I give it a few months and go to the other one and fall in love again

>>8810153
You're a very special boy.

>>8809827
is LTTP beatable without a strategy guide? Might try it for the first time today. I’m not in the mood to deal with cryptic japanese bullshit though that should have ended with Zelda 2 but it still exists to SOME degree in ocarina

>>8810192
I beat it as a child without a strategy guide and it was the second video game I ever played.

100%ing without a strategy guide is very unlikely. Because there's a few optional items that are very cryptic.

>>8810214
that's good enough for me. I absolutely love the look of the 16-bit era. Every single sprite/tile has so much detail put into it down to the pixel. And the flagship games like Super Mario World and LTTP utilize almost every trick up the SNES's sleeve. Even genesis games look and sound great, I just finished castlevania bloodlines a few days ago

>>8810192
That anon was smoking crack. Lttp was the first good Zelda.

>>8810192
What's cryptic about Ocarina? They even went so far as to give you a NAVIgator companion to tell you where to go at all times.

>>8810243
Not true, you can't really shit on the first one for being a pretty vast adventure game especially coming off of the atari era where most games didn't have an ending or anything as complex as it had. And the second is without a doubt enjoyable and a good change of pace for a sequel. Idk maybe you can shit on the game&watch one lol

>>8810256
I'm replaying it after a pretty long hiatus and I have the benefit of remembering certain things like dropping a fish in front of jabu jabu or playing saria's song in front of darunia but there is obviously some shit in OoT you would have a pretty hard time figuring out if you had never played it before. A majority of the game is pretty straight forward though, it certainly isn't zelda 2-crouch-under-the-random-table-tier. I'm just arguing against the small little details that would be hard to figure out.

There is no fundamental difference between how A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time direct you. Everything in the game can be gotten around by checking your map (which tells where to go) and talking to NPCs (who tell you what to do). That's just the basic adventure game loop. This idea that Ocarina of Time was suddenly more handholdy is bogus.

Y'all obviously trolling or salty. Breddo is the only one that captures the essence of the original with the freedom of movement 3d Zeldas brought.

Outstanding and the very best by merit alone.

>>8810375
trash game that is too easy if you know what you're doing and too abstract for someone looking for an adventure that isn't just
>but muh open world and freedom of choice!
If I wanted to run around a large map "exploring" polygons I would just play GTAV

>>8810192
>is LTTP beatable without a strategy guide?
The game's map has map marker telling you where the dungeons are. Its not a ton of info, but keeps you from getting too lost. There's also a fortune teller who will directly tell you the next story task you need to do. Alttp is where the series became family friendly, but still a quality time

>>8808926
>More proof? Kirby, look how long it took for them to to do something significantly different with kirby.
Do you not remember spinoff/experiment hell of pre-RtDL

>>8809985
>third reviewer
Cute gamer girl

Spirit tracks was a game changer, it completely changed the face of gaming as we know it

>>8807630
People like them, you stupid autist.

for me it’s leaving the temple of time for the first time only to find castle town infested with redeads

>>8811595
I noped out turned around and went back in time.

>>8811595
made me shit my pants as a kid, so kino though

>>8809935
This is real and east vs. west basedtendo vs. pcgamer kind of thing man, I've tried getting through to them. They're conditioned to like short italian men and twinks with elf ears.

>>8811726
From what I'd seen modern Zelda fans like to do speedrun tricks like glitching through walls, float in the air with bombs to sequence break into parts of the game they shouldn't be allowed to access. They're playing a whole different game from you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2UnkvALVRs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRyP43DidF8
Also Skyrim, really?

>>8811824
Cringe autism making a meta game and then liking zelda for it. Hold on what's aaaaaa-ck AAAACK! woah there goes another speedrunner.

>>8811726
>tfw morrowind and majoras mask are favorite games
>why are mom and dad fighting

>>8811838
Nintendo fans are either gonna be children or autists.

>>8807630
pretty sure i've never seen anyone claim wind waker is the greatest zelda game, so you're wrong.

>>8811874
I’m sure some people claim it’s the best zelda, but I don’t know anyone who claims it to be the best game ever made. A title multiple zelda games hold by various people

>>8811879
Has it occurred to you they simply associated the game with childhood memories? What the fuck even is a "best game ever" that's a moronic claim. You're arguing with children.

>>8811882
It 100% has occurred to me that’s what it is. I’m just saying that when you look around you have a ton of people claiming how OoT or LTTP or Zelda 1 happens to be “the best video game ever made,” and this is spammed all over the internet. But no one says that about wind waker. But, I also added, there are people who I am sure think WW is the best of all the zelda games. I’m not trying to argue any of this myself or tell you what the best game ever made is (a title so arguable it’s hard to quantify

>>8811852
Honestly I just got triggered when someone called elder scrolls generic fantasy shit, and overlooked the fact a huge comparison I was making was the the elder scrolls redesigns all new assets from all new base art.

>>8810149
>But in truth, LA and OoT are absolutely definitive
ftfy

>>8807630
It’s literally just because of the banger soundtracks from Kondo. Once he started splitting up the role of composer and zelda transitioned away from looping masterpieces to orchestrated/ambient music the games became less charming. BotW is far superior in many ways to any of the other games yet no one calls it the best game ever made. Go listen to the OoT ost and tell me the game wouldn’t have the reputation it currently does if all you had were random piano keys every 5 minutes

Zelda games are perfect for a boy who is just about to age out of enjoying Mario games. Growing tired of Mario, with his simplistic platforming, he starts a new game - a legend about a princess. What's this? I am rescuing a princess from some ogre. OK, I've done that before, but it has something to do with a struggle between good and evil. And it's not just jumping and LSD-inspired power-ups. There are swords, bows and arrows, dark dungeons, some magic spells, some puzzles... maybe even a horse to ride. (So much cooler than a dinosaur that can lick its own genitals.)
This boy, who is not so little anymore, has just found the greatest game he has ever played.
And sometimes this boy grows up and gets a Playstation or an XBox, and learns to shoot people in the head, or steal cars, or maybe just play some football. But sometimes he doesn't, and he just sticks with Nintendo even after his adolescence. For this man, Zelda is the pinnacle of video game development.

>>8812029
zelda would have been way more based if nintendo didn’t have its stupid bäsedboy rules and miyamoto was allowed to make it a story about christianity like it was intended to be

>>8808757
>Wish I could skip to the end
You fucking retard, BotW is like the one game that's designed around being able to do this

>>8808163
It's always some obnoxious ESL faggot calling other people ESL kek

>>8808894
>It always makes me laugh when people associate Nintendo games with stagnation/killing the industry/every game is the same etc. Nigga as opposed to WHAT exactly? What company? What franchise?
At least Megaman always makes an effort to be dif- oh wait, no.

Just started playing LTTP for the first time ever. Very comfy. The map seems a lot smaller than I would have imagined, but it still seems very dense. The combat is pretty gay so far only because I can’t slash my sword directionally. I have to line up enemies perfectly and they’re always getting cheap hits on me

>>8812369
Okay I am now 20 minutes in… does the master sword have improved controls at least? Or am I going to go this whole game getting my ass kicked by a bunch of rats
Greatest game of all time my ass.

>>8807894
>the majority of games are terrible
Sonic is literally the most fun platformer there is and the soundtrack is 10/10. Get better taste.

>>8812029
Your first mistake is assuming people "age out" of Mario.
Genuinely, if you think people's tastes follow some linear path from "childish" to "mature", you're probably about twelve, because that's what twelve year olds think.
Personally, I can sit down a listen to a four hour lecture on the Bible, I can listen to black metal, or I can watch an episode of the Muppets, and none of this is a contradiction to me, because I enjoy all of these things.

>>8812475
Sonic has like 4 bangers and the rest of the soundtrack is garbage Genesis twang or recycled songs from the 16 bit era. And the platforming sucks. For a franchise that markets itself as “fast” it sure does like to put roadblocks everywhere and encourage anything but running full speed uninterrupted

>>8812475
This is your brain on ass processing

>>8812521
>garbage Genesis twang
I think the Genesis sounds fucking amazing. It has easily one of the best sound chips of the era. Find a song that sounds as good as this on an early Nintendo system. You won't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTQIiIKummw

>it sure does like to put roadblocks everywhere and encourage anything but running full speed uninterrupted
Ok I totally agree with this. They should have focused more on making the series about being enjoyable and going fast, rather than shitty puzzles.

>>8812521
Sonic Adventure (1) is straight bangers from start to finish and it has lots of good running sections.

>>8807630
Cause they're all more less the same, and are all great.

>>8807921
ALTTP has baby difficulty come on, LA is a much more solid choice

>>8813012
ALttP is way harder than LA. LA is babby mode. It's the easiest retro Zelda, even OoT is more challenging

>>8813129
ALttP has harder combat and secrets, LA has harder puzzles and mandatory navigation.

Reminder that if someone has Zelda 2 or LTTP as their favorite Zelda, they're a dumb NPC trying too hard.

>>8813164
A Link to the Past is NPC tier, Zelda 2 is either a 40+ year old wearing a DOOM t shirt or someone who's really into oldschool ARPGs like Falcom stuff and probably only likes the first two Zelda games

>>8807630

Because most of the Zelda games actually were well made serious projects and weren't just cash ins like some random Call Of Duty game.

>>8813186
No, Zelda 2 is baby contrarian's first 'hot' take

>>8813164
They're both very good games.

>>8813245
No, that's Majora's Mask

>>8813245
Hahahah

>>8811726
>>8809935
Most western rpg games combat gameplay just suck though.

>>8807916
twilight princess was really good too

>>8807630
>It's the same game every time, isn't it?
Why don't you just play a couple and find out

>>8809935
skyrrim gameplay is too easy and streamlined though. after playing dark souls i deleted skyrim. When i first bought skyrim though the immersion alone had me playing it nonstop for months. the dragon main quest was anticlimactic asf though in the end.

>>8809930
zeldas story and lore is just really cool, also putting together the timeline of the games. more whimsical and flexible than skyrim, im sure lots of people dont get it though. similar thing with the final fantasy (esp ivalice alliance) games.

>>8814186
>zeldas story and lore is just really cool, also putting together the timeline of the games. more whimsical and flexible than skyrim, im sure lots of people dont get it though. similar thing with the final fantasy (esp ivalice alliance) games.
It's a shame the Zelda timeline has the reputation it does, because it's genuinely one of the most interesting aspects about the series. The storytelling is so unique. I think people just feel left out that they haven't played all the games/aren't familiar with every entry, and setthe at the idea there might be something they're missing beyond the surface level stories.

>>8814221
>I think people just feel left out that they haven't played all the games/aren't familiar with every entry, and setthe at the idea there might be something they're missing beyond the surface level stories.
exactly
although i hope in the next game they finish off ganon for good in some way and move onto another villain who's the manifestation of evil. skull kid was my favorite bad guy desu. majoras mask as a whole was also just ridiculously unique. vaati was a kinda weak antagonist imo though

Because Nintendofags; they could be fed a broken compiler spawning random pics of Mario on their consoles and still be praising the incredibly complex and innovative gameplay.

>>8814257
That’s called the CDI and no one likes it

>>8814262
yes, but the CDI was not made by nintendo. Had it been, nintendofags would be calling it a "masterpiece" and "ahead of its time".

>>8814270
Nah no way. Everyone shits on the virtual boy

>>8814243
>although i hope in the next game they finish off ganon for good in some way and move onto another villain
We Kingdom Hearts now? 'Ganon arc is over'

>>8814273
trust me, you are underestimating the damaging effects of fanboyism

>>8814283
fuck kingdom hearts in every way
but yes im not a 70iq simpleton so i think the bad guy being ganon every time has gotten old

>>8814283
like, would you eventually lose interest in playing elder scrolls games if EVERY game was just about alduin coming back, again?

>>8814273
>>8814289
or https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/05/turns_out_the_history_of_the_virtual_boy_is_more_interesting_than_the_console_itself

>It adds another level of tragedy to the already grim Virtual Boy story to know that the two leading figures involved in its inception are now dead. It's a massively misunderstood console that shows just how willing Nintendo is to take risks when so many of its rivals are content to simply recycle existing ideas.

>>8814293
Most Zelda games don't even have a story. And the ones that DO have it usually don't have Ganon in them

>>8814394
>Most Zelda games don't even have a story.
? what?

>>8814407
It's as basic as it gets

>>8814289
>>8814305
Oh geez lmao, nintendo fandom was a mistake

>>8814451
This really hasn't been the case since Link's Awakening, the fourth game in the series. Even the Capcom games effort into their stories.

I’m having so much fun with link to the past right now. I understand why people say it’s their favorite especially if they grew up with it and played OoT some time later. I’ve never played it before but I think I would hold it to the highest standard if I had nostalgia attached to it

>>8807630
>Why is every Zelda game considered on the greatest of all time?

Brainwashing and conditioning.

>>8807630
Have you considered playing or looking at games people say are good before making threads to falsely generalize and dismiss them?

Zelda was never good. It's a dumbed down action RPG series for retards and women. Ohhh look little Jimmy hit the eye button with his arrow! Good job! Have a dopamine jingle because you're so smart.

>>8816146
>It's a dumbed down action RPG series for retards and women.
Well ONE of those things in correct.
But which one?

>>8816146
Yes anon, a dumbed down action RPG that started when ARPGs were in their infancy and were practically impossible to play. /vr/ will brainwash you into thinking that Dragon Slayer or Hydlide were better games while in reality they were unplayable garbage. You know why people (including Japanese developers who actually make ARPGs not some 4chan elitist retards who don't even play video games and only read wiki articles about what unfluenced what) consider Zelda groundbreaking? Because Nintendo took 80s kusoge and turned it into an enjoyable experience
>Zelda was never good
Have fun with PC-88 ARPGs I guess

>>8816194
I don't think the anon you responded to is old enough to know what anything you said is.

>>8813463
The people who like Majora's Mask actually like Zelda.
Zelda 2 fans pretty much hate or shit on every other game in the series.

>>8808845
Twilight Princess

>>8816287
>dude, turn into a wolf and pick up the bugs again
>dude, do you want fun memorable character designs? No, everything's brown

>>8816273
Nothing says Zelda like being an errand boy.

>>8816273
Zelda 2 fans are actually nice and always passionate about explaining why they like the game. People who say shit like
>only the first two games are good
>Zelda 2 shits all over the first game
are just baiting retards. Actual fans of the game never say this

>>8814257
Yeah, except Nintendo fans basically never stop complaining about NSMB, or the new Paper Mario's, or any number of other things.

>>8816242
Get a life.

>>8816313
>Zelda 2 fans are actually nice
lmao fucking no way you actually think this. Zelda 2 fans are nothing but bitter shitters mad that everyone else likes the other games more
>>8816305
Sure as hell fits better than turning it into a castlevania clone with a shitty leveling up system attached to it

>>8816332
>an action adventure game about exploring dungeons and getting into sword fights with enemies
Nah, sounds way more like Zelda than Sidequests: the Game.

>>8816339
>exploring dungeons and getting into sword fights with enemies
That's every Zelda game, man,

>>8809081

links awakening happens right after oracle of season and ages.

Only necessary zelda's to play: zelda 1, zelda 2, link's awakening.
simple as.

>>8816467
Zelda 1 isn't fun unless you're a kid in the 80s and you're used to shitty Atari games and you have Nintendo Power, Zelda 2 is close to being a great game but the overworld is stinky and gay and it's too cryptic, gameboy games shouldn't count but link's awakening is okay I guess

Does anyone even like minish cap, phantom hourglass, and/or spirit tracks? Seems like they're all just generic games that happen to use the zelda IP and they don't hold their weight the same way link's awakening/the oracles games do

Ocarina was a polished, complete 3d title released when 95% of everything else out there was janky trash. Even ignoring that precedent it was mostly a cut above the imitators that followed. You would have a hard time coming up with anything on the level Oot or Majora's in that late 5th early 6th time period. Leading the industry for several years is rightfully going to get recognition, anything that big is going to become retarded gamer legend.

>>8816317
Learn to retort, kiddo.
Come up with an opinion that doesn't sound like verbal baby diarrhea.

>>8807630
It's not a bad game series but oot is overrated as fuck. The earlier 3d games had you focus on just one enemy at a time and there were already action adventure games in the first person that were waaaaaaaaay better. They're good for the story but the only good entries were majora's mask and wind waker, the latter being the best in terms of gameplay and stuff to do. Botw was also extremely overrated and nearly 20 years too late to the open world genre. Sad because the open world genre was kinda pioneered by the very first zelda games.

>>8816921
Ocarian might be overrated NOW, but in the context of its release in 1998 it was top tier

>>8816921
>action adventure games in the first person that were waaaaaaaaay better
King's Field fans have arrived

>>8816882
The Minish Cap is one of the best 2D Zelda games.

>Great dungeons
>Lots of secrets in the overworld
>Best swordplay in the 2D games
>Very charming story

>>8816953
I don't get why people focus so heavily on Zelda's combat other than it being stiff, janky shit. It's always been like that even in the 2d titles. If you want better combat, play DMC or another hank n' slash. Not defending it either, it needed refinement, just that Zelda was never ABOUT the combat.

>>8817664
Zelda combat is fun and rarely stiff. All the games give you tons of tools to play around with. If combat ever feels stiff, it's because you're not engaging with the mechanics enough.

>>8816957
too short, only 6 dungeons, one of which is literally a straight line for over half of it

still good, but not as good as alttp, la or the oracles

>>8808808
Then you are not a Zelda fan, you are a "bashing my balls with a big rock" fan or a boomer.

>>8809063
I think they are cool, the worse is obviously the Skyrim one btw.

>>8808845
dark souls

>>8817993
I should've specified that I was referring to OoT's combat, but you're right nonetheless.
I'd argue in OoT's case when it comes to the tools during combat that they aren't as useful during most encounters since Dekunuts, out of the rest of the arsenal, nearly trumps any and all situations. Wind Waker's tools are a bit better since they're quicker, snappier and one can be used to set up for an insta kill. TP's are all useless outside of bomb arrows from what I recall, but it's got some of the best swordplay in the entire series. I wouldn't mind seeing a 3D title (outside the Musuos) try out the option to break out of your combat stance and run around while still Z-targeting like DMC and Dark Souls do.

>>8814305
>Praised mainly on it's technical and marketable level rather than the interaction with the games
Hey that sounds like /vr/ with everything!

>>8818161
Other than lack of puzzles we have a Winrar.
>Captcha: SPYTR

>>8808758
Why don't you just get good at playing video games?

>>8817993
Zelda's combat is weak compared to proper beat em ups (basically everything that evolved from DmC1).

*No Combos
*Blocking is too powerful
*1 maybe 2 melee weapons that play different
*Little depth
*Gorrilion hitpoints for Link

>>8812369
Anon I beat this game when I was 10. You need to learn how to not get hit

>>8808845
Pretty much all the games descended from Devil May Cry.

You know having actual combos and moves useful for different situations.

Ocarina has a basic stab (the variants between vertical, horizontal, and thrust are trivial) and a leap attack. The spin attack is either too slow when charged manually or too cheesy when the command input is mastered. The items are either too clumsy or cheese the enemy.

Defense is too easy because the shield is usually always reliable and you basically lose nothing from blocking.

>>8808808
You literally didn't deny anything that anon said.

>>8818314
Zelda isn't an action game. Judging it on that basis is entirely missing the appeal.

>>8818161
No, Dark Souls isn't a game about adventure and whimsy. It's a game about being trapped in a horrible hell world. Completely different appeal.

>>8808757
>the gameboy games are shit
you are so incredibly incorrect, the oracle games are the best 2d zeldas

>>8818674
blame tp for giving link press a to awesome qtes
the true zeldapill is realizing the games aren't worth shit without good dungeons and puzzles

>>8818679
Elden Ring then...?
Minus the whimsy and lack of puzzles.

Maybe there's truly no game that does OoT, as a whole, better than OoT itself. Just in a few ways mechanically.

>>8818679
*blocks your path*

>>8819026
those zombies were super terrifying, esp as a kid

>>8819026
Which contrasts the brighter parts of the game, showing you the stakes have been raised. That's a punctuation mark in the story.

>>8818775
It's really not any one thing. It's that particular feeling of going on an adventure that the games give you, which is partially the combat, partially the puzzles, partially the world and exploratory element, partially the story, partially the music and visual design, but not just one of those things individually.

>>8819026
kino lmao

>>8808083
this post does a great job of putting the matter into context

>>8820456
It really doesn't, though, because it ignores how experimental the average Zelda game is by focusing on the big titles everyone is familiar with. The actual fact of the matter is that the average gamer only plays a few Zelda games and ends up with little understanding of the series in its own context.

Look through this thread and it's painfully obvious that only a handful of people here are ACTUALLY familiar with the series' history, development, and design philosophy.

>>8820653
>because it ignores how experimental the average Zelda game is
Examples?
>by focusing on the big titles everyone is familiar with
You mean the ones people actually play.
>The actual fact of the matter is that the average gamer only plays a few Zelda games and ends up with little understanding of the series in its own context.
Literally doesn't matter with regard to the thread topic.

>>8807630
Only LTTP - MM have that distinction. Everything lead Soley by Aonuma has been shit.

>>8819403
It's weird that the Elden Ring enemies that behave similarly didn't seem as scary, though I guess they don't freeze you, they just do that jump.

>>8812475
Fpbp.

>>8807894
Sonic is the peak of video games.

>>8820801
He's going to say cel shaded graphics was a huge experimental thing, you know it.

>>8818296
>>8818314
Combos are horrible. They don't improve the combat at all and I'd rather take OOT's four different sword slices.
>>8818679
>>8818161
>>8818836
Dark Souls and ER is pretty dreamlike and mythic. Many of it's imitators just go for dark fantasy but don't get how they integrate things from the setting into it well, and miss mythic elements. The combat system is also less combo-like than a lot which the two share. The atmosphere of OOT isn't a universe away either (and some of the catacombs in Elden Ring seem like they're reliving some of those Zelda Temples/dungeons with things like riding up slicing traps, and I enjoyed them more than a lot of the 'big' dungeons in it, within reason).
That said, I do find Souls a bit much in terms of 'dark' and OOT/MM and prior Zelda games have the right feel to me, while later ones feel too twee.

>>8821017
I wish oots sword slices mattered for more than two enemies. Just wasted potential all around. It's obvious they weren't puttint any effort into the flow of the combat and at best achieved rudimentary simon says its a keese so do a vertical slash and simon says you want a deku stick do a horizonal slash. Even the first mega man legends made more interesting enemy encounters.

>>8808808
based, I love only the first two though

>>8820801
>Examples?
Link's Awakening basically codified progression in modern gameplay. Everyone says OoT builds off ALttP, but its foundation was established in LA.

Majora's Mask has one of the most alive worlds in gaming thanks to the three day system.

The Oracle games are basically one successful experiment in connecting two unconnected action-adventure games into a handheld epic. The password system alone is insanely unique.

Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks push the DS to the absolute limits, for better or worse

Skyward Sword is basically the definitive motion control game, (also for better or worse)

A Link Between Worlds' wall merge completely changes how you approach level design

Breath of the Wild is a complete reinterpretation of the series.

Wind Waker, Minish Cap, and Twilight Princess are really the only "standard" Zelda games, but even they have their quirks.

>>8821017
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Souls, in fact I like them a lot. It's just not Zelda, and shouldn't be regarded as any replacement for Zelda. It's like the difference between The Chronicles of Narnia and Berserk,

>>8821015
Wind Waker is very experimental for the series, cel shading or not. It was the first game to all but throw out the high fantasy setting and do something different (pirates). It added the glider. It added swinging on ropes, and a grappling hook. It added sailing. Link is more of a character than he ever was before. He emotes. He has actual family, who are fleshed out as characters. He quests for things that feel personal to him, rather than just a generic "save the princess, save the kingdom".

>>8821138
>>8821176
Goddamn the series really did stagnate hard after OoT and didn't experiment at all. That Nintendo has convinced people it did is fucking sad.

>>8821197
So you haven't played Majora's Mask or Wind Waker then?

>>8807630
You have a bad taste

>>8821049
What's there is actually pretty good, but yeah the problem is that the game never really makes you take advantage of anything. You have so many different ways to attack and approach enemies, but all you ever have to do is mash B a few times.

>>8821197
Why are you even here when you clearly haven’t played the games?

You don’t want to discuss. You’re note contributing any points. You’re just bitching and moaning about what’s rightfully considered a prestige series.

>>8821246
Wow nice meltdown lmao

I don't think he's the one having a meltdown after getting BTFO'd. School starts tomorrow, kid. You should turn in early for the day.

>>8821290

>>8821341
You literally tried to say "climbing a rope" was a huge experimental thing for the Zelda series.

>Reading comprehension
Follow along, Jr.

>>8821360
It's a whole new movement option. How is that not an innovation?

>Zelda is often considered the best video game franchise of all time because it innovates!
>You can climb ladders and stuff
No way you’re serious right now dawg lmao

>>8821426
It's not a ladder. It's a rope that you swing on. Very different movement mechanic to anything that was in the series up to that point, so yes, it's an innovation. Try playing games.

>>8821246
this is a textbook definition of baitpost yet noones pointed that out, while this has 300 replies and people actually trying to spark a discussion get accused of baiting

>>8821454
I'm past the point of caring whether something is "bait". It doesn't actually matter, if there's a conversation to be had. I'm very bored.

>>8821218
It's competent but literally just two things it actually matters for. It shows they could do more...but didn't.

>>8807630
Nintendo fans have no standards

>>8821469
>>>/vrpg/2553673 then respond to this post

>>8807630

I think they were just on a spree with the LTTP, OOT, MM. Since those, the titles haven't been bad enough to kill the fanboyism, but are still decent plays, usually with a glaring flaw or two. BOTW pretty much killed it for me plus I grew up and played better games than Zelda but redditors jerk off daily to it. I hear Skyward is kinda bad but I never played.

>>8811990

underrated post

>>8822225
Skyward is dogshit because it's tied to motion controls, but I've heard the new ports on switch don't require it. At least I think. Some people claim it's really good but obv not as good as the LTTP/OoT/MM/WW era where no one really complained about the games aside from WW art style but that's a nit pick and, in my opinion, has aged decently well

>>8823682
Skyward Sword's dungeon design is insanely good and it's the only 3D Zelda with an actual difficulty curve, but the motion controls make or break the experience. Personally, I thought it was good on Wii and now one of the better Zelda games with the Switch remaster. The pacing is still wonky, but the story and level design are solid so I don't really mind.

I'd say SS is better than TWW and TP at least.

becuz almost all of them are great

now seethe

>>8823694
Yeah for sure. I've only played a little bit of SS on Wii back in the day and I was coming off of a TP high where I thought the more "realistic" graphics were based. I need to go back and play both for a more fair comparison

this is the most /v/ thread ive seen in a while, not that I am on here a lot

>>8823682
>but I've heard the new ports on switch don't require it.
You're right, but it doesn't make the swordplay experience much better with how finicky it is. The motion controls are so baked in it's more intuitive to play the game that way. Instead of pushing the control stick in a direction to attack, you have to pull it back like with Paper Mario's Hammer attack, then release it for a slash and there's no way to change it. It can be done quickly, but it's still awkward when playing Simon Says enemies.

I used to call OOT the greatest game of all time years before I actually sat down and played it ,i just repeated what I heard others say.

>>8823682
Skyward Sword's motion controls were fun. It's problems were more cantered on how much it guides you every step of the way. Does a lot to strip the sense of adventure out of Zelda, which is kind of a problem. I still enjoy it, it's just very all over the place as a game.

>>8807630
only oot and botw(lol) were considered 10/10s across the board

>>8824657
botw was great except i miss having BIG dungeons. the shrines just being a REALLY easy puzzle with maybe 3 or 4 rooms at the most were dissapointing.
hope they bring back some level of dungeon crawling with the next game. Open world was fun, but the WHOLE game cant just be open world.

>>8807630
I'd say, as someone from outside of USA, Americans LOVE Zelda and Nintendo as a whole, that's my take. As someone that never was too in love with either, that's my take. Similar to how people idolize Maradona or athletes in general, blind fanatism

>>8807630
It's because OoT was an industry defining game and subsequently trying to recapture it's former glory. You had to be there when it released, but it will never happen. Ironically, I actually think OoT with stands the gaming tests of time and is dated, but credit to credit is due. It sucks that most of the "knowledge" of games gets distorted with times and this YouTube generation. The people that were there early on will know and the people that weren't will not. It's almost impossible for the latter to understand. A similar thing happened with Final Fantasy 7.

>>8826510
*Doesn't withstand the test of time

>>8826510
Nah, good game design doesn't age. Ocarina of Time and Final Fantasy VII are as excellent today as they were when they came out. "Dated" only means your inability to adapt to older design philosophies.

>>8807650
twilight princess was fucking garbage

>>8808002
>storyshit
Kill yourself, you meme-spreading fuckstain. You are the cancer that is killing >>>/tg/ .

>>8825270
It needs more moments that feel unique, as opposed to most of the game being made of interchangable parts. That's what people were feeling the lack of in BotW. Things like a really good, unique bossfight, that happens once, and leaves a massive impact, or a particular location you visit that stands out.

>>8828252
v true all the ganon boss fights up til the last one were basically just copies of the last, then the final battle was pretty anticlimactic. Hyrule castle was a good "dungeon" to explore but thats just about it.

>>8828252
>a particular location you visit that stands out.
a lot of the locations were pretty memorable tho imo

>>8807630
>of all time
GOOD SIR^3 UPVOTE THIS POST BEFORE YOU DIE

>>8807630
honestly? marketing

>>8830627
The genesis alone had better marketing than what zelda ever had, at least from what I remember.

>>8830627
Does that really hold up, though?

Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, the Oracles, Twilight Princess, and Breath of the Wild were well marketed, but I think the rest of the series has been hit or miss.

The handheld games basically never get the level of marketing the 3D games get, and Nintendo dropped the ball on pushing The Wind Waker (aside from making OoT/MQ a pre-order bonus) and Zelda Team pushed too much content during Skyward Sword. Ocarina of Time 3D basically cannibalized SS.

>>8831465
>>8831210
yeah but it's like Nintendo's harry potter marvel star wars etc, well I guess Pokemon is more like that but Zelda obviously has more respect than Pokemon

>>8807630
>sandbox gameplay
>adventure game without being an RPG
>made for all ages


yeah, it´s overrated

>>8807630
Why is every GTA game considered on the greatest of all time? I'm not even trolling or being a contrarian I just don't understand why these games have such a blindingly accepting fanbase. It's the same game every time, isn't it?

>>8807630
Not really. It has a lot of variation,throughout the series. I wouldn't consider every game to be a "masterpiece" but think about what a 4 yrs old had in the 80's, also it delivered time and time again. I think my last Zelda before BOTW, was Twilight princess but for Gamecube.

>>8821092
I rented the second one, and hated it at first... Then I never took it back to the game store, my Mom was pissed.

>>8807630
Everyone's favorite Zelda is their first Zelda. I'm mad because Breath of the Wild brought the series to normies.

>>8807630
Simple answer? Wink Waker, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword and most the attendant side games released in this period represent a nearly 15 year period of stagnation for the series. These games are unmitigated trash coasting on the laurels of the N64 era games.

>>8834507
In those games you get to kill a hooker

>>8807763
I can't play the N64 version
The 3ds version is the only good OOT game.

>>8807639
/Thread

I feel like this bored skews older so does anyone remember when stores like Hot Topic started selling a crap ton of Zelda merch? It was around the time of Wind waker and Twilight princess, when all these kids that grew up with the N64 games were now teenagers playing Zelda on their Wii or GameCube. And there were so many new converts to the series it was like this explosion of really shitty bad takes and "omg I'm such a huge Zelda fan!" sentiment from anyone and everyone. Drove me nuts. Even my boring and normie as fuck wife had a DS with a few Zelda games from that era and she'll wax poetic about how great those games are, even though she won't pick up a controller now and thought watching me play BOTW was boring as hell. But I think that 2000s era of Nintendo where they were just a little bit edgy and a little bit popular saw this massive influx of people coming into the franchise and saying it was the best shit they ever experienced. I think that's really where it all started because before that, growing up in the 90s you would always see Zelda mentioned as one of the best game series but there was never that kind of fervor for it. Ocarina was the start of what I described at the start of this, but it really took off in the 2000s with the GCN/Wii games

>>8837236
This has absolutely nothing to do with Zelda and everything to do with video games becoming more mainstream throughout the 21st century.

>>8837274
... With Zelda at the top of the heap. Alongside shit like Halo, Warcraft and FF, for that era of gaming. But it was definitely one of the forerunners of that cultural shift.

>>8807630
OoT and ALttP are very innovative games and very significant

Most of the rest of the games while good just kind of build on these two games

>>8836160
???

>>8837389
I really think you're overestimating Zelda's popularity into the early 2000s. I'm not denying it was mainstream, but Nintendo wasn't exactly in vogue at the time.

>>8836160
what cunt?

>>8807630
>I just don't understand why these games have such a blindingly accepting fanbase.
Me neither. I don't like any of the Zelda games.

>>8837434
Maybe I am but living through it I can attest that my high school friends and I were very excited for the GameCube and Wind waker, and pretty much any kid I knew who was much younger was playing Zelda on their 64 or GCN. Plus you have the announcement for Twilight princess which broke the internet at the time

>>8821141
They could be that different, but those start to seem similar when almost everything else is 'fantasy based in an MMO game' story.

>>8837389
Zelda was more well known than Warcraft during the 90s. It's only when WOW came out years later that it became really recognised.

>>8816287
>worse story
>worse atmosphere
>worse combat thanks to wolf form and enemies being too easy & retarded to handle the advanced techniques
>uglier somehow
>less memorable in every way
Not even a OoT fanboy but holy shit no.

>>8818314
Actual level traversal in DMC games are dogshit. That and the environmental interactions and exploration are way inferior. Combat is better yeah but that's the only area

i think majoras its much better even if you beat the bosses you can fight again vs those bosses animations and history are much better and i can you can beat the bosses in the order you want so you got much liberty than ocarina, In ocarina you cant go to shadow temple without using glitch firts you at least need got some medallions firts to trigger the cutscene to get shadow temple song

>>8812521
>For a franchise that markets itself as “fast” it sure does like to put roadblocks everywhere and encourage anything but running full speed uninterrupted
you have to actually be good at the game to go fast. that's the thing about retards who use your argument; they're terrible at games.

>>8808562
And they always do shit like
"best game of all time "
*start explaining how even if some things are product from their time and have aged badly, there was nothing like that baCk then.

By definition if it is the best game of ALL Time, then it should not age badly at all.

>>8837392
Alttp is the best zelda game. Has not aged badly at all, unlike oot in some aspects

>>8840836
i heard that some of the later dungeons are tedious

>>8842831
from who?
later dungeons are the best part of the game
>>8838718
>>8837389
This whole conversation is totally missing that there were distinct (if overlapping, in some cases) audiences and populations. Warcraft was a huge game, by year 2000 Blizzard was a huge name.

The big thing that happened in the late 90s and early 2000s with Nintendo in general and Zelda especially, was that Nintendo became increasingly ensconced in its own little world with its own large but segregated fanbase. This trend had always been there, but was taken to the extreme with the N64.

The result was a modest plurality (<50%) of videogame fans united in their worldview centered on Mario and Zelda. Meanwhile, the rest of the world that didn't care much at all about Nintendo, the majority population who played other platforms (playstation/PC/etc) had no united worldview. 10 million people might have played Final Fantasy VII, but they weren't all Sony fans who mostly played Sony games on Sony platforms. Solid Snake doesn't follow from Cloud Strife the way Zelda follows from Mario.

I don't know, anon. I remember back in the day that I had EGM. They never gave out all 10s to anything. MGS3 couldn't get it. GTA SA couldn't get it. Halo 2 couldn't get it. Metroid Prime couldn't get it. But Twilight Princess did. I bought that shit excited as hell. It was nowhere near as good as those games and was very mediocre. There's something about Zelda that breaks people's minds. Twilight Princess is maybe a 7/10 at best.

>>8825270
Trying to reconcile these two things would be difficult though. Modern games are just too big to be packed with dungeons as intricate as ocarina’s. I’m playing through OoT after a long hiatus and I’m blown away by not only the scale, but the character of a lot of the dungeons. Yes hyrule field might be small by modern standards but something like the fire temple feels enormous especially if you haven’t played it in a while and you’re going in without a strategy guide and while it is pretty “linear” it still requires backtracking and critical thinking to solve some puzzles. The atmosphere of each dungeon is unique with extremely well-crafted design and music and atmosphere. Contrast this to botw where despite having a massive world, any time you’re doing a dedicated “dungeon” it all feels stale and similar. Everything looks the same. Way more time went into trying to perfect OoT dungeons but trying to do that much effort times 1000 for a map as big as a modern game would be really hard. Even the dungeons in TP feel bland. Yes they have fun aspects but they supplement pretty lame gameplay with large maps to make it feel bigger than they really are. Idk this post has just turned into a drunken stream of conscious hopefully it made some sort of sense

>>8842981
>10 million people might have played Final Fantasy VII, but they weren't all Sony fans who mostly played Sony games on Sony platforms. Solid Snake doesn't follow from Cloud Strife the way Zelda follows from Mario.
Sony did have this kind of fanbase during the PS1 & PS2 when they had lots of IPs that were at least associated with them if not exclusive. Lots of cartoony platformers like nintendo too.

>>8807630
Perfect formula for mainstream success:
An immersive fantasy adventure game that has fun gameplay/12-seconds-core-gameplay loop, great music and a medieval-European inspired setting. An interesting world to explore, dynamic changes to the gameplay, many kind of upgrades for more motivation and everything is so refined, well-rounded.
People have been always fond of adventure settings, I mean look the amount and success of young adult fantasy novels, such as Harry Potter.
Obviously only half of the Zelda games are considered masterpieces, but that's still impressive with so many games in a series
The question is rather why so few clones exist, I only know Darksiders 1 and I have enjoyed it a lot.

I was in the OP camp until I actually played through, beginning to end (not just a couple hours), the creme de la creme Zeldas (OOT, MM, LA)

They deserve the praise. The dungeons are terrific, the exploration is fun in that Metroid way, the music is phenomenal, the style of the series is a very simple but effective harkening to a sense of adventure and wonder that is very oldschool and childlike but somehow incredibly appealing to almost anyone. It makes you feel like a kid again. I never grew up with Zelda but I immediately see my costume-wearing, sword-obssessed 7-year-old self slashing imagining cutting up monsters in Link. It turns all those fantasies into a real game

>>8843083
I agree TP isn't good but MGS3, GTASA, Halo 2, and Metroid Prime isn't good either so why the fuck should those get all 10s?
The only good Zelda is the original NES game. Truth. Everything else is pain in the ass trash and/or storyshit.

>>8843849
>the creme de la creme Zeldas (OOT, MM, LA)
>not lttp

>>8842981
> but they weren't all Sony fans who mostly played Sony games on Sony platforms
What Sony games? A Sony game is something like Ape Escape. FFVII, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, MGS and all of the other ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''Sony games'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' that people associate with PS1 were not Sony exclusives

>>8844059
LTTP is a slog imo. Good game, but I prefer the bite-sized nature of LA
LTTP is a good game though but I only get halfway before getting tired.
I am also not a fan of the way the game looks or the SNES soundchip. It's a me thing

>>8844083
cope. kids didn't usually have PCs and DC was a dead platform. they were basically exclusives

>>8844105
No I have nothing against Playstation, I grew up with it and love it a lot. Just saying that most of the games were multiplat

>>8844136
except they basically weren't cause the other platforms were dead or inaccessible

>>8844154
Late 90s is exactly when PCs became accessible though

>>8844175
PCs meaning work and education PCs. Not whatever weird cards were required to play state-of-the-art games

https://discord.gg/X5jBt7FT

If you want to spread the love of BBC across all board come join me in my discord.

>>8844186
>PCs meaning work and education PCs.
these became accessible in the late 80s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PS/2

>>8844216
Not really. Maybe in America

>>8844186
Even my normalfag brother had a PC that could play stuff like Half-Life

>>8844083
>What Sony games?
Yeah that's my point.
Basically, the normal people that made up the majority of the videogame playerbase chose from a wide variety of favorite games. Nintendo fans were secluded on the Nintendo plantation and basically didn't know shit about anything else. So for them, Zelda being the best N64 game is the same as being the best game of all time for any platform. It's all they know.

>>8844310
>So for them, Zelda being the best N64 game is the same as being the best game of all time for any platform. It's all they know.
This is a really strange cope.

>>8844087
For me it’s the opposite, it looks and sounds amazing but gameplay wise it isn’t fun. Having directional slashing would make it a million times more enjoyable

>>8829539
You WON the internet for today, sir!

>>8844310
Man this is absolutely not the case. I love ALL the video games but I still don't know what gen 5 game is overall a better package and more groundbreaking than OoT. It's not even in my top 10 gen 5 games, probably not in your top 10 too but that's not how 'greatest video game' lists work. I mean I like fucking Tomba 2 and Spider Man 2000 more than Ocarina of Time, does that mean that every magazine was supposed to call them the greatest instead of OoT? No

>>8807763
Autistic segmentation brain.

Part of what makes something great is how influential it has been. Yeah some new ones may have some more sophisticated bosses. They refined over time. OoT invented that entire class of bosses tho.

>>8845607
Personally OoT is my favorite, but playing devil’s advocate here: why doesn’t the title go to Zelda 1 then? There were certainly shittier adventure games on the Atari and Intellivision that came before the NES, and Zelda 1 and 2 really redefined what it meant to have a huge world to explore and set many of the fundamentals that are still in use today. And, as you said, games have come out since that have refined the combat, offered equal if not better stories, better graphics, better exploring, etc. Why, then, does this middle-era game hold so much weight over the others? Is it because it made the jump into 3D and simply stands out more than Zelda 1—LTTP? Is it because the music was amazing, whereas modern zelda games after ~windwaker can’t compete? Is it because most of the people claiming what they think THE best video game of all time is all grew up with ocarina? Is it some sort of positive feedback loop where a big group of people think it’s one of the best, and brain dead followers see this and repeat it themselves and the effect is that it gets amplified more and more? Is it a combination of all of these?

>>8846420
>part of what makes something great
>PART
There are also other parts like actually being fun today.

>>8846515
I don’t disagree, as I said it is my favorite. But that’s because I grew up with it. Zelda 1 is still enjoyable. Zelda 2 is still enjoyable. LTTP is really, really enjoyable. No less than Ocarina, one could argue