/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8761334
reddit hill 2

It's actually one of the worst "games" ever. The gameplay is horrendous; but is purely intentional. Everything surrounding the game is genius.

Silent Hill 2 is one of the best pieces of art ever made for sure.

Not even close.

>>8761347
I know, im so glad I stuck with it at the start its so fucking infuriating to play

>>8761342
fag

>>8761347
Why is this the case for all of the "best" 6th gen games like Ico, SOTC, Silent Hill, RE4, ect?

Sonic 3 & Knuckles exists so no, Silent Hill 2 is not the best game ever made.

>>8761363
Sixth gen is precisely when movie-loving phaggots took hold in vidya. MGS and FFVII were foreshadowing what was to come.

>>8761334
Its the best horror game for sure, I would put it in my top 10 games of all time though

>>8761363

>>implying RE4 isn't fun to play.

RE4 is actually the antithesis of this argument because RE4 did the OPPOSITE of what all RE games were trying at the time. Which was atmosphere over gameplay.

RE4 is only about gameplay. Sure it has atmosphere, but it's not necessary.

Silent Hill 2 is the opposite of RE4. Atmosphere over gameplay.

>>8761347
>Silent Hill 2 is one of the best pieces of art ever made for sure.
Is it really up there with the greatest masterpieces that humanity has ever created, like Evangelion, Berzerk, and the works of 植松 伸夫?

>>8761382
>Atmosphere over gameplay.
the atmosphere is so amazing, gameplay is garbage. I don't care though, still my favourite game ever.

>>8761387
Are those the great masterpieces of humanity?

>>8761387
>greatest masterpieces that humanity has ever created, like Evangelion
I think we could get along

>>8761387
>the greatest masterpieces that humanity has ever created, like Evangelion
Holy BASED. Almost time for my annual rewatch.

>>8761406

I fucking hate the new endings. Original ending all the way.

>>8761429
Of course. Hardly any media after 2007 is worth acknowledging. /vr/ would understand this.

>>8761447
2007 is way too generous zoomboy

I like it. It’s not got the most solid gameplay out there, but you’re playing an average guy who isn’t going to know how to defend himself well. I think it’s significantly easier than a Resident Evil game though, which detracts a bit from the atmosphere. He feels clunky, but that doesn’t translate to a sense of helplessness like RE does, it just adds annoyance.
I think it makes up for it in atmosphere and story telling though. Despite mediocre gameplay the game is still entertaining thanks to the good presentation. It’s not a masterpiece, but it’s a good game for sure.

1 and 3 are better

>>8761334
Best 'game'? I wouldn't go that far. Pretty danged memorable experience and borderline walking sim though.

>>8761334
Silent Hill was better overall.
Just so I'm not saying SH2 has shit gameplay without justifying it:
- Using a door that you have the key for automatically opens it; if your light is off and you try it you just get the standard "it's locked" message, which could make the player waste time looking for another key. The message should indicate that he needs the light (since he's apparently retarded). For what it's worth, he also only automatically uses keys on doors, not other key-dependent objects, like the handcuffs in the flooded hallway area.
- Maria is the most boring escort you could possibly have, and doesn't try to evade monsters or duck when you aim or anything. For the narrative importance she has, the gameplay is far too sparse here, especially since it's probably the largest gameplay departure from SH1.
- There is almost no enemy diversity, which makes the areas feel too similar, and the combat repetitive. The enemies all occupy the "walk up to player, pause for a second or two, and then attack" niche, so they're just palette swaps to a large degree.
- The enemies are all non-threatening damage sponges, especially on Hard, which isn't harder so much as more tedious. Boss battles are bland as hell. The camera is quite bad.
- Outdoor exploration is cut way back.
>>8761347
>purely intentional
I would love to hear you explain.
>>8761382
Correct, RE4 stands out for how smooth the gameplay is, I have no idea what that other anon meant.
>>8761387
I need to read Berserk. But Evangelion is a masterpiece (I'm actually rewatching it now; absolutely incredible), and maybe Uematsu's work. SH2 is not though, because only the symbolism, character/theming, and sound are good. It focuses almost entirely on narrative; the fact that it's a video game does very little to support the work, in fact, almost all the gameplay elements are abysmal. A masterpiece should be cohesive as a whole; better examples of masterpieces would be Alpha Centauri, Dwarf Fortress, or Braid.

>>8761387
berserk turns into a generic shonen after volume 14

SH2 was a breath of fresh air. It had no equal at the time and it was geniusly built. Story was also very well written and presented. Gameplay is bullshit if you play it in 2022 even if you play the enhanced edition, but at the time it was an actual 9/10 game. Puzzles are also retarded. James is an autist, but this could be by design.

Overall it WAS a great game. Today it might make a good YouTube longplay watch, nothing more

>>8761730

I will gladly explain.

The game's level design is tedious and mazelike, purely to create a sense of being lost. The game purposefully makes you constantly run down blank hallways, checking door after door. It's not meant to be inviting or satisfying. This is a game about punishment. James is lost in a place where he was bored and wanted to escape from; thus every area feels boring and hard to navigate.

I can draw Resident Evil 2's police station from memory, every room and layout. Because that was meant to be satisfying. What made that game great was the reward you were given for remembering the best route.

Silent Hill 2 isn't about that at all. There is no 'best route'. Just your own thoughts on narrative being presented to you as you trudge through the buildings.

It's like when you are showering and have the best thoughts of the day. Boring shower = best insight.

Next the gunplay and enemies. Both of them are anemic and boring. You are meant to feel powerless and you aren't meant to have fun killing things. Hence why you have melee weapons. The game isn't about the fun of ammo resourcing. You can kill most things by just hitting them. It's meant to feel like a chore. This isnt a fun place to be, this is James' Hell.

Next: The puzzles, which feel entirely arbitrary (which I fucking love). I love how you feel like nothing has meaning, you are going through the motions. The world itself is fighting you in a really boring and confusing way.

You know when you talk to someone and they aren't being clear? Like they could just tell you directly but skirt around things? Like that, but in a game. Again, everything is in service of making you feel like you aren't in a real place. The juxtaposition of regular smalltown buildings with strange locks.

Anyway, theres much more but I'm rambling. I'm probably wrong. But hey, thats what makes the game so amazing. You can't help but have shower thoughts about it.

>>8761843
based

>>8761843
I'm with you on the mazelike design, it works very well. I'm losing you on combat, though.
>meant to feel powerless
>why you have melee weapons
But you can kill things rather easily? There's tons of ammo. I'm not sure what you mean by "why" you have melee weapons, so I won't address that, although the melee weapons are fine. The pipe is very strong, essentially the fire hammer from SH1, except obtained even earlier. There's even the Great Knife, which is a "fun" way to quickly kill a group of enemies, strong enemies, or even a boss. There's also a LOT of combat - I have no idea where there are so many enemies in this game.
The combat also extends to more than just generic enemies, every boss is essentially "run to a corner of the room, turn, shoot, and then run to the other corner". Are you saying the game is good because the designers want the player to feel bored during a climactic encounter? If anything, the game should be emphasizing feelings of guilt, repression, avoidance, etc. It should make you feel bad about killing the bosses, or wish that there was another way around it, or something. That would be more in line with James's personal issues.
The dream logic of the puzzles and the setting are good, that's in service of the game and mostly works well. No issues there.
I appreciate the in-depth reply, and I don't think you were rambling. Did you play SH1 before you played SH2? I think a big part of my opinion is that I played SH1 first, so when I played SH2 I could only see how many of the mechanics only seemed to exist because "it's part of the gameplay system from our last game" and they just carried them forward with minimal adaptation. Being swamped by enemies makes a lot of sense in SH1, but in SH2 it just felt like they threw enemies all over because "SH1 had spooky monsters you could fight with pipes, so this game will too". Not to fault the design of SH2's monsters, which falls under theming and is as strong as the other narrative elements.

>>8761910
Do you remember what difficulty you played on?
I played on hard and fighting was highly discouraged unless you you were in a really tight spot (early apartments) and you literally had to kill to progress.

>>8761918
I played it twice. The first time on normal/normal (I wanted to see it the "intended" way), maybe 8 years ago, and strongly disliked it; I had to push myself to finish. I replayed it on hard/hard a year ago, knowing in advance what the game's goals were. While I appreciated some aspects of the design more, it sharpened my criticism toward others.
I played SH1, so I knew to avoid combat, but you don't always have a choice. In the apartments, the rooms are so cramped and the camera so unable to deal with it that you have to clear each one just so you can have room to search them. In the hallways and outdoors, sure, you run past everything. I actually disliked how this made the enemies seem irrelevant, in SH1, outdoors were actually more dangerous because the enemies were very threatening and mobile, and could overwhelm you if you weren't careful. For example, when you walk past the Historical Society and see that goofy animation of the mannequins being launched from over the fence? You just kind of roll your eyes and keep running, because (1) it looks terrible and implausible, and (2) they aren't worth acknowledging or breaking your stride for.
There are also rooms where you have to fight in the hospital, you open a door and you're face to face with three nurses. You have to fight them because, what if there's a key or riddle clue in that room? Skipping enemies in larger areas and corridors is fine, but since you can safely ignore them, you have to wonder why the designers even bothered putting them there. In SH1 you at least run the risk of getting hit as you move past. It also leaves you with tons of ammo for when you do have to fight. I dislike how neither enemies nor James seem to react much to taking blows.
I also think the balance is very poor on combat hard, although I do appreciate having a difficulty option at all, especially one for each difficulty type. The last Pyramid Head battle can be frustrating, and IMO, not in a thematically clever way.

>>8761730
>>8761910
>>8761963
I also want to apologize in case my tone here feels curt or aggressive - I was having a hard time fitting under the character limit. I am genuinely interested in how other people feel about the gameplay, because to me it's always brought SH2 down substantially in what otherwise could have been a masterpiece in my eyes. I legitimately think SH2 would be one of the best games ever made if a few things were done differently, so it's not like I came here just to bash on it.

>>8762021
it's fine, friend, relax

I agree gameplay left a lot to be desired. I agree with everything you said. Your experience might be jaded from the fact that you also played SH1 and I had to "learn" how to play the game from scratch.

>>8762021

Hey, "rambling SH2 defense force" guy here.

To answer your question, I did play SH1 first, I actually played it way way way before SH2. I didn't play SH2 until possibly the PS3 game out. Whilst I played SH1 as a kid with my dad.

For me, SH1 and SH2 are like night and day.

Even as a kid I could tell what SH1 was doing and I'd not even watched Twin Peaks yet (but I was aware of it). SH1 was all about likeable characters in an unlikeable world. The narrative was about a hero and thus the gameplay backed this up.

When you first weapons in the first game they felt powerful; especially the rifle. You ran a lot in the first game, constantly speeding from place to play and you had a sense of urgency. You were told at the beginning of the game what your goal was and you could tell Harry wouldn't stop until he reached that goal. You had a side character who was clearly trying to help you and there was satisfaction in saving her. SH1 was purposefully built to be very simple. Even as a kid I understood what was going on. Some lady was being a bitch and wanted to something she shouldn't. Main character got in over his head and stopped her.

SH1 was directed by someone who is extremely good at writing simple stories that are very captivating, with likable characters (Gravity Rush 1 and 2 are clearly signs of this).

Best way I think about it, is that Silent Hill 1 is The Shining (the book)

And Silent Hill 2 is The Shining (the movie).

Someone took a story and world that already existed and used that foundation to create something completely different and extremely personal.

The Shining book was about a boy with telepathy.

The Shining movie is about... Well fuck, they made a fucking movie all about people's unending theories on the movie. It's safe to say that they are both very different approaches to story telling.

Now, take everything I said about SH1 and try and apply it to SH2 and you can't.

(tbc)

>>8762021
>>8762190

SH1 is about saving someone.

SH2 starts by saying there is no one to save, it's pointless. The game starts by doing the opposite of SH1 by removing any sense of urgency and heroism. You aren't a brave father doing whatever you can for your daughter. You are a dude wondering around doing nothing. The only time you get any sense of purpose is when you meet other characters. Characters who have their own problems, which aren't clearly defined like they are in SH2.

Now, SH1 had very satisfying shooting (for the PS1 anyway). SH2 is a technical marvel on the PS2 and yet they still chose to make the attack animations as lifeless and heavy as possible. You feel like you are in mud. Barely caring.

They could have added a really awesome double barrel shotgun, which would have fit the theme of a small town. But they didn't. They give you boring weapons that are hard to wield. I find it hard to believe that Konami were strangers to make good shooting mechanics. They just chose not to, but combat is there for the sake of being there, because it was there in the first game. They decided to make it worse because they didn't care about it.

Basically the entire game feels clumsy because they didn't care whether it felt good to play. Look at SH4, they tried to make that feel good to play and it made it worse.

Silent Hill 2 is meant to be unlikable, thats what makes it so likable.

I mean, think about it. We could moan about how terrible we think the gameplay is forever, but guess what? We are talking about it because we completed the game. Clearly someone pulled us through it.
I watched the movie Synecdoche, New York once.

The film is a mess. A fucking horrible, existential mess that reminds you of every pain you feel; being human. The film is the most ethereal, tragic and uncompromising pieces of media ever.

The film does not care whether you think it's boring, or slow, or too fucking 'real'. Watch it or don't. 10/10

>>8761910

Also, what I meant by 'you have melee weapons' is that, you can't run out of ways to kill things. I know you are thinking "then you are super powerful." but thats actually not the case.

RE 1 and 2 are so fucking amazing because they are power fantasies in disguise. The game says "Hey, guess what. There is 12 zombies and you only have 2 flame rounds left. You need to get through 3 rooms. You're pretty fucked eh..."

And you think "Fuck you game! What if I... And then I... Oh! And I have space to pick that up if I use the ink ribbon here! then... Yes... Yes! I can do it!"

You are managing your resources. RE2 is a mental excel sheet; but you don't even realise it.

Simple way to think about it.

Have you ever been out and realised that you have enough change to buy an candy bar because you chose to go to the cheaper cinema instead of the one with the leather seats?

Thats RE2. RE2 is about having a candybar that you earned through budget managment.

Silent Hill 2 removes all of that by giving you melee weapons. There is no resource management. Just hitting things. Slowly. Or running because you got bored of hitting things.

I love RE2 because it gives me candy bars as a reward.

I love SH2 because it gives me candy bars as a punishment.

>>8762190
>as a kid with my dad
That must have been an intense experience. I agree that the underlying story of SH1 is quite simple, although I also want to mention (as an aside) that because of the unconventional way in which the setting and background are explained, many people finish SH1 while not understanding how the cult, Dahlia, or Alessa had anything to do with what was going on. A lot more is clear on a replay, even though the game's plot could be summarized in a few sentences.
While James feels less urgent than Harry, he does have a goal - his wife. Angela wants to find her family. Conversely, there are SH1 characters without goals - Kaufmann, Dahlia, and Lisa do not have obvious backgrounds or goals to the character, although yes, everyone in SH2 has less of a grip on themselves.
I am with you in that the combat in SH2 should not be "fun" (I wouldn't say it was fun exactly in SH1 either, just more appropriate), but I don't think "boring" is the right approach. It should be unsettling, disturbing, and dreadful, to fit with the rest of the game. The bloody shoeprints when James walks over enemies is a good touch here, but there should be more. The enemy sounds for taking hits should be more varied, hitting them with melee weapons should sound gross, and they should moan and twitch even when defeated, so the player is still uncomfortable even after "winning". You point out that this combat system was in SH2 because it was there in the first game, and that is also my argument - that the system wasn't quite adapted enough to fit the theming of the second game. I didn't enjoy SH2/3 enough to play SH4, but I did hear the combat system was changed in a big way. I also heard that game's engine was originally meant to be for a different series, so I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't fit in with SH4 as a whole. It's a matter of opinion, so I can't say that you're wrong or something, I just don't think the combat was thought out as much as other parts of SH2.
(cont)

>>8761334
Next to P.T., I think it is the best horror game ever. Gameplay ain’t that good, too bad everything else is god tier. All four of the first Silent Hill games are kino, and you are a wonderful person. Have a terrific day and stay safe!

>>8761963
>I dislike how neither enemies nor James seem to react much to taking blows.
This didn't bother me too much in SH2 but it really pulled me out of 3 since it's supposed to be more combat oriented. You blast a monster at point blank range with a shotgun, there's a couple drops of blood, and it might flinch. It hits back at Heather, a couple drops of blood and she flinches. That's pretty much the entire game.

(cont)
>>8762223
>meant to be unlikable, thats what makes it so likable
I agree with you a lot, but I don't think it's a catch-all excuse for any mechanic. If I had to manually write "X" over every blocked path on the map, exploration would be more tedious, emphasizing James's nightmare, but at a terrible trade-off for the player. I don't think the combat's low overall quality is "worth" any narrative advantages it may have, especially as around 30% of the game (40 being exploration, and 30 being puzzles, loosely).
>someone pulled us through
Reviews saying this is the greatest game ever pulled me through it, but if this was a game I bought with no prior knowledge I would have dropped it during the hospital.
Synecdoche, New York is absolutely a 10; I consider a masterpiece of its genre. But I didn't find it slow at all. Every part of the film contributes to the whole, even when it feels slow to some. I will never consider (very) slowly beating my 20th lying figure to death in the apartments with a hollow-sounding piece of wood to be an experience that elevates the game. The first few? Perhaps, but not all of them. It's always the same, with no challenge nor variation in strategy or mood.
I like your candy bar analogy - very quotable. Yes, the early RE games have a focus on resource management; SH1 and SH2, as you say, do not (though they pretend to, for marketing reasons or otherwise). The combat shouldn't be enjoyable nor rewarding in SH2, we are in complete accordance there.
Since I'm rambling myself, I'll summarize my view:
1) the game forces you into combat at many points, and combat itself is a major part of the gameplay triad
2) James is confused, stressed, and lost in multiple ways - but not bored
3) exploration and puzzles fit - they are abstract, bizarre, and sometimes intimidating
4) combat does not fit. It isn't overwhelming, stressful, or offputting. It does invoke a negative emotion, but "boring" is not an emotion coherent with the rest of the game.

>>8762523
Yeah, it is definitely more egregious in SH3. As you point out, the combat plays a very outsized role there (there's almost no outdoor exploration, and few puzzles). The enemy designs themselves aren't as good either, since Team Silent members admitted some of them were just "monsters that look like this because... we just need monsters", lacking the thematic import that the SH1/2 enemies had. I don't know why they went in this direction, seeing as in SH1 the monsters and Harry both hit appropriately hard - the protagonist routinely gets bowled over or grabbed, but it doesn't seem quite right in SH3. I think adding the bulletproof vest also tacitly encourages players to jump into the combat, which doesn't seem appropriate to the game. It's also at odds with the jerky (not that they bothered adding an animation for the jerky for the numb bodies, they just stare at the jerky until it disappears... in fact, they should have added a texture for the vest as well), which would have been a great addition to give the player some more agency when avoiding combat, and pairs with the tazer. Giving players options is usually a good idea, but Silent Hill was never an action game about killing monsters, it was always an obstacle that you had to learn to struggle against. If they wanted that entry to switch that up, they needed to do more than add a "blocking" pose.
Despite what I've said in this thread about some parts of SH2, SH3 was definitely a bigger disappointment from a design perspective.

>>8761334
Out of the japanese titles i only liked silent hill 3. Which was a solid game.

>>8761334
It's a good game my man, I'm weird and think that you need to pair it with the 1st SH to get the full experience.

The change of being a family man (Harry)
To being a SPOILER (James) is a great franchise experience.

>>8762223
It's not about the weapons James has or his attack animations or the shooting mechanics, it's mainly the enemies. They just slowly walk at you until they're within melee range, they're never much of a threat, and that's what you encounter for like 99% of the game. It's boring and starts to feel like a chore dealing with them. Escorting Maria wasn't that fun either, and the long walking sections for atmospheric reasons didn't excite me.

I usually focus on the quality of gameplay my first time playing a game, and I thought SH2 was pretty bad because of that. I still ended up replaying it and since I could just get through the gameplay sections quicker it let me appreciate the music and story more which I did end up loving, but I still think the gameplay is bad and hinders the overall package. And I don't really think it was intentional or symbolic for some of the reasons the gameplay isn't great.

>>8761387
>up there with the greatest masterpieces that humanity has ever created
It's great but it can't be THAT great because it borrows a lot from other works like Jacob's Ladder and Solaris while trying to pose as 'unique'
>Evangelion, Berzerk
See, exactly the same could be said about these. Thematically and Berserk is the same as Hokuto no Ken but darker, even the artstyle is similar sometimes. And Eva is just Gundam and Ideon with a bit of Devilman during EoE.
That being said, as far as horror games go Fatal Frame takes the cake for me

>>8761347
> video game
> art

Does anyone have a working download for the PC version of SH2?
The one that's included in the pasta that gets posted every time somebody mentions Silent Hill on /v/ is down.

>>8763549
myabandonware has a working version
And remember to install the controller patch from the enhanced edition if you are planning to play with a gamepad

>>8761334
I like SH1 more but it's pretty good.
>>8761347
>t's actually one of the worst "games" ever.
No, not really. The gameplay loop is still plenty of fun.

Weirdly positive thread from an OP I was sure would attract the contrarians and /v/ tards
>>8763537
Never understood this non-argument.

>>8763674
Thanks, anon, I appreciate it.

>>8763685
video games aren't and will never be art because they fundamentally require programming, which isn't an artform, to function. Doesn't mean that games don't contain art but as a whole it can't be art, it's not rocket science

>>8761334
For me the series goes:
SH4 > SH1 > SH0 > SH3 > SM > SH2 > Down Pour > Homecoming

Genuinely didn't like 2 that well. But I don't think any of them are bad games

>>8763889
>because they fundamentally require programming, which isn't an artform, to function.
What? By that logic digital art or computer animated art isn't art. Also who the fuck says that art must not require programing???
You're an idiot.

>>8763903
Your otherwise based opinion is fucking ruined by putting 4, the worst of the early games and worst than 0, first

>>8763889

"I'm sorry to tell you Leonardo da Vinci; paintings and sculptures aren't and will never be art because they fundamentally require paint, stone, tools, technique and skill, which isn't an artform, to function. Doesn't mean that your paintings and sculptures don't contain art but as a whole it can't be art, it's not chemistry"


You're a cretin.

1=2>3>4

>>8763532
>because it borrows a lot from other works
All art does this. Solaris was based off a book! Is it no longer THAT great? Do you think Jacob's Ladder invented the (I won't spoil it)-twist? Did your favorite band invent their genre? No, they only put a twist on centuries of musical traditions and variations. Even great composers were the same. Apocalypse Now uses Heart of Darkness as its foundation. While it may detract from it in terms of "pure" creativity, it adds to it by introducing an additional layer, that of contrast with the other work, and also allows it to leverage our collective understanding of Heart of Darkness.
That's why tropes exist - the audience has an expectation that a guy dressed in black and with a scowl and a scar on his face is likely the guy that murdered the protagonist's father, spoken of in the previous scene. You have no hard evidence, but we've been conditioned to expect it due to a long cultural tradition of introducing antagonists that way. Directors can leverage that to save time making that clear, allowing them more time elsewhere to focus on more interesting and novel parts.
Creators frequently put references and homages in their work, beyond tropes, just as tributes to the people that influenced them. It isn't necessary that Silent Hill have a Twin Peaks-like vibe going on, but the people who made it loved Twin Peaks and its representation of small-town America, so they decided to use it. How many games have elves and orcs? They are hardly original, yet their presence pays respect to Tolkien. Evangelion and Star Wars are very similar in that their directors are both film/anime nerds and their works are, to a VERY large extent, poetic blends of homages. I can't overstate how common this is. I'm running out of space, so, please:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9bEBMekf9g
https://wiki.evageeks.org/Tributes_to_Other_Fiction_in_Neon_Genesis_Evangelion
https://wiki.evageeks.org/Tributes_to_Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_in_other_Media

>>8763532
>it borrows a lot from other works like Jacob's Ladder and Solaris while trying to pose as 'unique'
SH2 is basically jusy a dramatically simplified retelling of Lost Highway.

>>8764739
Good post but Jacob's Ladder indeed was a HUGE influence on Silent Hill. And not only because of the twist

>>8764798
I'd say Phantoms was just as much of an influence too. The entire setting is lifted almost directly from the book/movie, right down to the sirens going off when the weirdness escalates.

>>8763903
for me, it's SH2>SH4>SH1>SH3>SM>Homecoming
I haven't played Down Pour or Origins and I was pleasantly surprised by SM and Homecoming. SM tried doing it's own thing instead of riding the coattails of 1 or 2. Homecoming was definitely a retread of 2 but there were some cool areas

>>8764831
Actually never seen that movie, might give it a watch. Also
>https://silenthill.fandom.com/wiki/Inspirational_works_of_Silent_Hill
Good stuff

>>8764765

You understood what happened in Lost Highway...

>>8764845
Homecoming was very fun for me, i actually replayed again only a month later. It's probably one of the easier in the series tho.

>>8761347
Fpbp
It's a running simulator, I literally spent 10 minutes just pressing the analog up
Why did no one tell me you should just watch a longplay on YouTube

>>8761363
Ballooning production values and a push for accessibility lead to big budget games being made with pared down and/or minimalist designs

>>8761334
I disagree. It’s a very good game, but I think Donkey Kong is the best game ever.

>>8761363
Ico, SOTC and especially RE4 play amazingly, what are you talking about?

>>8761429
>>8761447
Rebuild 2.0 was great.

>>8763903
Zero that high, huh? Maybe I should give it a shot. Is the PS2 version any good or should I emulate the PSP version?

How can it be the best game ever made when it is worse than the first game?

>>8761334
It isn't, but it has one of the best atmospheres of any mainstream game.

>>8766451
He’s just parroting what he’s heard, like half the website does.

>>8766451
Not him but Re4 is clunky as shit and the shooting is less intuitive than tank controls, which considering the game is very action centric is a very big drawback. When I first played Re4 I was disgusted by how it handled, not so for the previous REs

>>8761334
Wouldn't know. I always shit my pants in that early apartment building and stop playing.

>>8761387
The golden age arc of Berserk is one of the best pieces of art and greatest works of fiction ever created. It remains the only Manga I've ever read and one of the less than 5 Anime I have watched.

>>8761387
>only lists weebshit as “greatest masterpieces humanity has ever created”
300+ pounds, patchy facial hair, has not spoken to a woman in years outside of telling the chipotle worker he wants the mild salsa, spends 16 hours a day in a computer chair, currently wearing a video game t shirt.
You have severely limited your scope of art appreciation anon.
>>8761447
>Hardly any media after 2007 is worth acknowledging
Yes.

A lot of people don’t think SH2 has good gameplay… it does. It’s simple, it doesn’t need to be any more to be clever and entertaining. It’s a lot of walking around while the audio does it’s magic. You are limited and vulnerable and just watching a let’s play of this instead of playing it is disservice to the experience. I honestly believe the only way to have truly experienced this game was by playing it in it’s heyday. An experience like seeing the original Star Wars films in theaters on release most likely as they become so ubiquitous and prolific they lose impact over time.

>>8766457
PS2 version is a bit shit, just play PSP

>James, it was YOU all along
>omg the monster keeps chasing him because HIS GUILT keeps chasing him
>this is LITERALLY one of the best art pieces ever made
No offense: I really, really like SH2, and as far videogames go, it's miles ahead of most, but god fucking damn, if this shit is "deep symbolism" and "mind-blowing" to you, then you guys really, really need to read a classic or two, or at least open a book that isn't about dragons and magic swords and shit.

Sorry, but there's no other way to say it.

>>8766458
I'm with you there. SH2 takes a lead in having more symbolism to ponder, but pretty much everything else is in the prequel's favor.
>that webm
Devilish.
>>8767327
>finds tank controls unintuitive
I'm sorry for you, anon, but for people that can adjust to different control schemes, RE4 controls just fine. Leon does exactly what I want and expect at all times.
>>8767367
>limited and vulnerable
One of the biggest faults of the gameplay system is that you are neither of these things. Nothing in the game is a threat to James except Geometry Face, and that's only because he sometimes scores one-hit kills.

>>8767427
You are definitely limited in combat and movement (not a negative) but I suppose yes, the vulnerability is usually more illusion than reality.

>>8765356
Donkey Kong sucks!

>>8767392
You green texting bull shit don't show even half of what the plot has to offer. You probably watched the ending on youtube and never played the whole game. The plot is not just about James. There's a whole variety of characters with different stories dragged to the town as well

>>8767443
What are the limitations? He can move and strafe during combat, has a variety of melee weapons, and can lock onto enemies - RE4's Leon can't do any of these things. James can also pause the game to use a health restorative anytime he chooses. You can also run (if not walk!) away from every non-boss enemy in the game. What limitations do you think are adding to the SH2 experience? That the camera sucks shit and clips out of bounds all the time, rendering you unable to see what's happening? That James is stunned briefly if he takes a hit? That he doesn't have grenades for AoE damage?
I am genuinely curious as to what you mean. I'm not trying to imply that SH2 should have action-game combat/movement, and I know you aren't either, but I just cannot see SH2 as having combat or movement limited in any tangible way, let alone a way that adds to the atmosphere, tension, or broader game design.

>>8767392
taking any plot at pure face value is the worst way to appreciate art anon

>>8763436
>It's not about the weapons James has or his attack animations or the shooting mechanics, it's mainly the enemies. They just slowly walk at you until they're within melee range, they're never much of a threat, and that's what you encounter for like 99% of the game.
The same is true about Resident Evil's zombies. Because that's how survival horror was meant to be all along

>>8767489
What I mean to say is that your movement/being doesn’t correspond to you being a combat oriented character. You are limited enough to feel tension. Combat is not the main focus of the game, you are therefore limited as opposed to something exactly like RE4 where the movement synergizes with combat.
I did not once claim any of this as a negative. James plays like a typical every day man with the dexterity of a typical every day man. The same goes for all the (team silent) Silent Hill games. Relax, I like Silent Hill as much as you do.

>>8767392
>>omg the monster keeps chasing him because HIS GUILT keeps chasing him
Pyramid Head is basically just Robert Blake's character from Lost Highway. Only he's a monster with a big sword/spear instead of a creepy pale guy with a camcorder because SH2 is so heavy handed and literal it makes the average slasher flick look like a masterpiece of subtle storytelling.

>>8767392
What is deep symbolism and mind-blowing to you?

Genuinely asking, not trying to troll.

>>8767392
>A picture is not worth a thousand words
>>8767671
He did mention books. But in books symbolism are too obvious. Subtle symbolism along with visual art and sound effects provides a deeper experience than just words. That's only possible through movies and games and SH2 have been the best so far.

Masahiro Ito added visual symbolism to every creature he draw. Reading a wikipedia description would not be the same as seeing it. Junji Ito manga is the only who surpasses SH visual symbolism but lacks the immersive sound effects.

>>8764860
not him but surprisingly it was probably one of the only David Lynch movies I understood on a first watch

>>8767367
The person with the best art appreciation skills is probably the person consuming it for 16 hours a day

>>8761771
>It had no equal at the time
Ignoring the many legitimate comparisons to Resident Evil, it literally came out only two years after SH1. And 1 did most of the same gameplay loops better.
>Gameplay is bullshit
How? The fuck do you mean bullshit, the controls are intuitive and the combat works, at worst it's dull like Drakengard.
>Puzzles are also retarded
Again, how? They're puzzles, they do their job of being breathers where you take your time and use your head.

>>8768026
>You can't have subtle symbolism in books
I'm sure plenty of you have seen this retarded image before.
This is what subtle symbolism is in books. Every line a (competent) author writes has a clear level of intent to it, and textual analysis is digging into that.
It's why your English teach failed most of you btw.

>>8768026
Very cool. I've always wondered about those cages. I thought they were perhaps from Japanese folk mythology. Creatures had obvious symbolism in 1 and 2, and it is a (somewhat subtle) point against SH3 that they abandoned this approach to design.
>>8768524
I do think he has a point in the "picture worth a thousand words" idea, and I'm going to put my words into his mouth. I agree with you that symbolism in books can be subtle, as in anything else (I've let too many things slip past me to say otherwise). However, books are "just" text - as you say, a competent author should have each paragraph, if not line or word, tied to a purpose: either immediately, as an indirect symbol, or in a motif. But you can "easily" analyze the text; the author is telling you, in words no less, what he wants you to hear.
With audio-visual media like film, ideas can be more subtle because the message is conveyed in a more ethereal compound medium of writing, music, sound effects, acting, character and set design, color grading, shot framing, camera angle, etc. All of these tweak how you perceive the message, and the effects can be very subtle. The same conversation with merely the level of zoom on the scene altered can impact how the message is received by the audience. With games, you can even go further because you sometimes want the player to self-discover or self-insert. This is not a particularly apt example, but I remember playing Dwarf Fortress many years ago, finding myself falling into a pattern of grabbing all of the recent immigrants with "useless" skills like soap-making and immediately conscripting them to military service, assign the best rooms to my favored dwarves, etc. Without realizing it, the game had allowed me to put myself into the mindset of a dictator. Even though I felt I was making decisions for everyone's "best", a citizen within the fort might rightfully call me a tyrant. That kind of self-driven empathy is only barely achievable in static art forms.

>>8763889
I never understand the "videogames aren't art" people. They reject video games as art bc "it's a combination of art but not art itself" yet they accept movies as art even though it's also a combination (theatre, photography, music, and even 3d modeling)

>>8768927
almost everyone who has said that has not only never played video games, but they also are from an older generation that sees something new and decides to look down on it. people used to look down on television in the same way they look down on games. so its pretty much just an old person cycle repeating. its just their way of trying not to give something validity because they think they understand art better than young people, and to admit that they don't understand it would basically mean that they are ignorant, which almost no old people are willing to admit. by the time we are all old the view will have changed completely i'm like 99% sure

>>8768026
>But in books symbolism are too obvious.
>THE NURSES HAVE BIG TITS BECAUSE HE WAS SEXUALLY FRUSTRATED
>THE WALLS HAVE PULSATING PISTONS BECAUSE SHE WAS RAPED
>THE MONSTERS MOCK HIM BECAUSE HE WAS BULLIED
lmfao

Like it's been mentioned, wait until you're older than 15 years old, or read a fucking book that isn't about le epic dragon battles.

>>8768026
I love how Laura was spiritually like their kid they never had

I really like the implication that all the supernatura potential of Twin Peaks originates from the Lake Toluca and the mist that rises from it. James has water in a lot of scenes as well, Angela has fire and Eddie has ice. I have no idea what it means.

>>8761730
I think SH1 is the better game in terms of gameplay and atmosphere. SH2 probably has the better story, and is overall probably more interesting, but if you want to play a Silent Hill game the first one is the better one to go to.

>>8768828
off topic but tangential im obsessed with the obscure references to japanese folklore and spiriruality in the souls games esp bloodborne

>>8769183
>Words are enough!!
Still he posts pics to try to prove his point. And by using "obvious words" to describe the game images he just proves my point about that being too obvious just like in his first post >>8767392 about the plot

All the million words and theories you find in forums and wikipages and even here trying to describe the images seen in this game are still inaccurate even to this day. Why? Because you can't describe abstract art through words

>>8769183
>flaming staircase
>"It's hot as hell in here."
Woah, so deep. I don't think I would have made the connection between a raging inferno and Hell if the game hadn't explicitly spelled it out for me.

>>8764131
>construction is art
keque

>>8767606
>with a camcorder
What was the deal with that anyway? I love Lost Highway but I barely "understand" it. Understanding Lynch's works isn't the point but I'd like to know what exactly the Mystery Man is.

>>8768026
>Junji Ito
I found the two manga I read by him to be very boring. He is creative, I'll give him that, but a pretty shit writer.

>>8768828
>the author is telling you, in words no less, what he wants you to hear.
>With audio-visual media like film, ideas can be more subtle because the message is conveyed in a more ethereal compound medium of writing, music, sound effects, etc
You're speaking out of my soul, brother. There aren't enough artists working on video games which is why there are so few games that live up to the actual potential this medium has to offer.

>>8770408
I haven't seen it in awhile so this might be a little off. But early in the movie the cops ask Bill Pullman's character if he owns a video camera. He says something like "No, I hate video cameras. I like to remember things my own way, not the way they really happened."
I think one way to interpret it is that the camcorder is there because the Mystery Man (whatever he is) is trying to make him remember what actually happened and not the fantasy version of events cooked up in his mindbroken state.

>>8768828
The issue is less that certain mediums are more or less capable of "symbolism" or "subtle meaning" but rather they do it in methods which are almost incomparable to each other in any meaningful sense. Simply adding in audio-visual-gameplay, as you mentioned, provides unique methods of conveying certain meanings to its audience, but at the same time it doesnt necessarily mean that a medium with compound elements will always be able to encapsulate a work in a far simpler medium. Take for example how you simply could not adapt Pale Fire to any other medium, or achieve what it does in its manner in another. On a broader level, think about how often you see adaptions which almost always fail to live up to the original, and most of the ones which do, do so by being almost new work altogether. If you ever tried to write in the format of a novel for example, vs say a stageplay or a script or even a videogame, it becomes immediately apparent that each requires their own sort of style and elements which may work in one are impossible to implement in another due to the nature of the medium itself. Dostoyevsky, for example, can put in a page long passage on the inner thoughts of an individual, something which you can't really do in visual mediums without completely breaking the cadence and pacing, and so they require different methods of achieving similar results and feels.

>>8770430
That's actually pretty cool then. Thank you, anon.

>>8769671
SH2 has the better story, although I'd say they're as interesting as one another, considering design, different subversions of expectations, etc. I just think that when considering all aspects (sound, art, gameplay, pacing, challenge, replayability, ...) SH1 comes out ahead in so many ways that I can't do more than acknowledge SH2 as a stand-out in the competition for narrative. It does do very well there! If it had taken advantage of lessons learned from SH1, it could have been a "greatest game ever". I am bitter about the significant case of lost opportunity.
>>8769705
I only played Dark Souls (half), which was dark western fantasy on the surface. Do you have nuggets about that to throw out, or especially any from Silent Hill?
>>8770425
Luckily, the bar for being able to make one's own game is getting lower all of the time. Indie groups will be the salvation of gaming as art; big companies are totally transfixed by mainstream-Hollywood-type cash cow nursing. Even when they do attempt "art", it is a superficial way to just make it stand out, akin to Bioshock: Infinite's "deep" plot about parallel timelines or whatever. I think once the potential for art in gaming starts to take hold in the public conscious, artists will come more and more. Unfortunately for artists, it's always been a hard field to make a dependable living in.
>>8770432
Oh absolutely, the media are not interchangeable at all. As you point out, this is the major issue with adaptations from one form to another. Similar to translations for anime or something, you can't just translate a work piece-for-piece, you have to try and recraft the heart of it using the new possibilities and limitations. I just wanted to say that the possibilities for subtlety vary from form to form, and I (personally) think text offers the smallest array of options. If I had to pick one art form to consume the rest of my life, though, I would still choose literature, don't let me come across as denigrating it.

>>8770579
I think that in many regards, even a small field of aspects in itself is a strength, as the old saying goes less is more. Or perhaps that while a picture tells a thousand words, but given the reams of opinions, interpretations, and analysis of many great works, you could also say a thousand words can paint a million pictures. Although in this regard I am likely biased having studied literature in Uni.
With regards to video games, however, I think really the main problem with regards to it achieving its "full potential" as it were is a combination of the youngness of the medium, the fiscal costs of a mainstream game, and the barrier to entry to a talented individual relative to other fields.
Compare literature, for example, and you have thousands of years of some of the most talented individuals contributing to the canon, Even film is far older than video games as a medium with many acclaimed directors, so naturally with video games there is a lot of room to grow in both the pool and talent and prestige associate with it. Beyond that, given the ever increasing costs of AAA games and the need then to appeal to a broad audience and demographic, you pretty much leave an actually talented but perhaps niche individual limited to independent game development, as you said, and you see that in games such as Pathologic, which can work sometimes and is getting easier over time, but of course you place the constraints of resources on the individual or team which is still frustrating for anyone attempting to realize a complete vision which falls short due to financial concerns. Actually good writers would probably find it easier to simply go and write a book where there is less of a barrier to entry and less limitations on their ability to create their work, and as a result the video game writers are failures from Hollywood who moved to videogames for their movie games where the standards are low enough that their shoddy work is hailed by game critics

>>8770232
>James"It's hot as hell in here."
>Angela"?"
What seems obvious to us and James is not for Angela. And what was "explicitly spelled" on that scene does not connect, because maybe Angela can't feel or see any of that. That flaming stair case scene is just another example of abstract art, because these characters react different to that fire. In the same way people react different and disagree about the game. Because the whole game is abstract

>>8770668
>>James"It's hot as hell in here."
>>Angela"?"
She says something like "it's always like this for me". It's just showing how broken she is and James seeing that.

>>8766453
You're fucking insane.

>>8770696
While Angela's "hell" means how broken she is, James was literally feeling "hot as hell". I believe that scene was only James perspective of how Angela feels and not about her own perspective in his perspective. And if it was why wouldn't James see this fire since the first time they met if she was meaning literally

>>8770726
The characters in 2.0 were perfectly realized. Everything that makes Asuka, which I normally despise, Rei and Shinji great is shown in this movie. It's the last bit of great characterization in the franchise, afterwards Anno was more concerned with assassinating them.
Why don't you like it, anon?

never knew silent was this DEEP <img class="xae" data-xae width="32" height="32" src="https://s.4cdn.org/image/emotes/d3c674ba_monkaHmm.png"><img class="xae" data-xae width="32" height="32" src="https://s.4cdn.org/image/emotes/f2ecf801_PepeHands.png"><img class="xae" data-xae width="32" height="32" src="https://s.4cdn.org/image/emotes/b05923f5_monkaW.png">

>>8770232
The funniest part about this post is that yes, this is unironically deep. It's implied that this is the only time in the story we are seeing things from Angela's perspective. When James says "it's hot as hell in here", it's implied that James may not be seeing what Angela is seeing. The dialogue is vague, and we don't exactly know what is happening, making this yes, actually pretty profound.

>>8768506
>It had no equal at the time
I meant it from a story-telling standpoint. I know it's a survival horror game, but apart from gameplay elements it had nothing to do with traditional survival horror games at the time. It was way more psychological in its presentation compared to other games in the genre.
>Gameplay is bullshit
This could be due to me playing on PC (never played it on PS2), but even with the enhanced version I had horrible input lag. Overall movement didn't feel as snappy as RE3. I concede this could be a personal problem only.
>Puzzles are also retarded
Some were smart, but most were "door locked, go to other end of the world for key". Survival horrors are guilty of this in genera. They look very forced and tacked into the game. Game could get a pass because they are intertwinted with the story very well, but in a vaccum puzzles are dumb.

>>8770781
That scene is a metaphor of what Angela feels. So "It's hot as hell in here." have no literal meaning because that's not a real fire at least not for her

>>8770805
>I meant it from a story-telling standpoint.
Again, Silent Hill 1.
SH2fags love to write off every game that isn't 2 to just be generic cult shit, when SH1 dealt heavily in fucking hard with Harry in ways that would effect the player as well. Him shoving Lisa away in her final scene and having to listen to her cry out for help is almost a precursor to the James and Angela staircase scene, the bullying and abuse imagery for Alessa is also particularly effective (and there's genuinely horrific moments like James getting a call from Cheryl that's just her begging for help before the phone hangs up, which is harrowing for any parent (though I doubt anyone here has even had sex)).
>I had horrible input lag
That's a monitor or keyboard issue, unless you're mistaking windups for lag. The RE games are more about action and thus their wind ups are quick, and that's not a slight against either franchise (though REmake has the long winded wind ups of SH and fucking SUCKS).
>Some were smart, but most were "door locked, go to other end of the world for key".
Most environments are pretty small and the only instances of key hunting like that were in the apartments.
If you want really smart puzzles, try SH3 on Hard Riddle

It's a good experience but it's a shit game.

>>8770805
>Some were smart, but most were "door locked, go to other end of the world for key".

What are you even talking about? Finding a key isn't a puzzle. It's a device to get you to go somewhere. The riddles are puzzles, or the way you get the key is the puzzle. A key is literally just a device to stop you from going somewhere until you solve something.

>They look very forced and tacked into the game.

So all the doors should just be unlocked? Why even have enemies at that point? The game should just have zero challenge and be a walking simulator. Also if you're talking shit on the devices used for puzzles in Silent Hill then you're barking up the wrong tree. Not only is there some really unique applications of getting "key" items, but the riddles themselves are clever and have varying degrees of difficulty.

>Game could get a pass because they are intertwinted with the story very well, but in a vaccum puzzles are dumb.

I agree with the first part, they really are. But I don't get why you hate puzzles and keys so much. Also it's weird to say that the game intertwines them well, then trying to look at them in a vacuum. It's like saying no one would play Silent Hill 2 for the gameplay just looking at it in a vacuum. Like yea no shit the game sucks without everything else we know.

>>8761771
Being "outdated" or "having aged badly" is not a valid critique. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but it would be nice to hear some actual reasons instead of just taking the easy way out. I watch and play old shit all the time and have never thought that anything has aged badly. I just see people using it so they don't have to explain themselves further.

>>8770832
>Being "outdated" or "having aged badly"
This means Boomers loved it and Zoomers hated it

>>8761334
Good but overrated

>>8770816
I mean, the meaning is that its a vague hint to the player as to what the perspective of each character is. So yes, it does have meaning. On top of that, saying the fire isn't real isn't true. The town can manifest monsters that can kill people, so obviously it can easily manifest a fire, lol. It just isn't necessarily meaningful to even mention that in the context because the reason that piece of dialogue was written is like I said, to give a hint to the player.

>>8770832
There's just this pervasive idea of hating on something that is very well beloved because it makes you look cool and is contrarian. People try hard to find flaws in things that are pretty much near perfect. I mean I think SH2 is flawed in ways, but every time someone tries to make an argument for it being bad it falls pretty flat I think. At bare minimum, the game is still very solid. That's hard for people to swallow for some reason.

>>8770849
>The town can manifest monsters that can kill people, so obviously it can easily manifest a fire

>>8767521
Better designed games like Resident Evil, and Silent Hill 1 for that matter, also have faster and more dangerous enemies in the mix. SH2 doesn't have anything like the pterodactyls, dogs, or Rompers from the first game.

>>8770893
Resident Evil has zombies. And they are slow as they are meant. The only danger is to pass through them when they block your path in tight corridors other than that you can easily avoid them. SH1 and SH3 has better enemies if its that what you look in a game.

>>8770647
I am with you completely. Medium restrictions are frequently a boon to creativity, and of course the iconic fog of Silent Hill itself existed in the first place due to rendering limitations on the PS1. Film, and especially games, have quite a ways to go before their storytelling possibilities are fully realized, compared to literature. I'm sure the earliest literature was just transcriptions of popular oral stories and myths, and it would have taken a long time before people started to branch out and explore forms of literature that weren't really achievable in the oral tradition. Unfortunately, it will probably be slower for games, because even more so than film, it is possible (or preferable in many situations) to create games devoid of narrative, which exist purely as entertainment. With the bar set so low, so to speak, you are correct that game critics are far too accepting of weak stories.
>>8770827
>SH3 on Hard Riddle
I heard about that Shakespeare one, and can't imagine that's any fun to solve. I was already pissed with how they handled it on normal: I just solved the puzzle in a few seconds by examining the items in my inventory (not realizing you are supposed to interact with the shelf separately), and because of that the books stayed in my inventory the remainder of the game. Got very annoying having to scroll past them all the time when looking for other items. Luckily, that sloppiness helped lower my expectations for the rest of the game.

>>8761363
>re4
lmao nice try
and the gameplay in sotc is good, just spare

>>8770919
>Resident Evil has zombies.
And Hunters/Lickers, dogs, Chimeras/Drain Deimos, etc. The only people who think they're "zombie games" are retards who never even played them.

>>8771142
Zombies remain 90% percent of them. And there's much less enemy encounters If you compare to SH2

Has anyone seen my wife?

>>8771386
She's in the trunk of your car.

>>8771142
Whole I get what you're saying, the zombies (and Tyrant) are the most iconic things to come out of the first game. Second IMO is the zombie dogs

bump

>>8761334
its sad the remaster was so shit. If my copy ever goes belly up of the original red ps2 release, I won't get another for a reasonable price. It's sitting at $300+ canadian pesos now.

>>8771264
>zombies remain 90% of them
It's actually about 50% human zombies, 50% other creatures.

>>8761334
It's a horror game so it can't be among the best.

>>8773324
Mod your PS2 anon.

I wonder how many of those guys discussing Re4 played the proper Wii version which makes it function exceedingly well

>>8773539
I was always interested in playing that version, never owned a Wii though.
I pondered on buying a Wii U off of a friend of mine, but I don't know if the library is really worth it considering a lot of games were already ported.
Pic related is one of the games that I hope get ported soon.

>>8761387
>Evangelion
>Berserk
How about you watch some REAL kino, anon?

>>8761429
I think you mean PERFECT endings

>>8771142
Why didn't any of the SH games have cool death scenes like that?

>>8761593
Nah, 3 had some of the best music in the series though. 3 was too silly sexy japanese schizophrenia randomness

>>8761593
Nah, 3 had some of my favorite music in the series but it was too sexy Japanese nihilism for my taste.

>>8764765
The plot is a classic reiteration of an old tale, the genius of Silent Hill 2 was it's aesthetic brilliance. Remember Dantes Inferno was written hundreds of years ago

>>8773754
>3 had some of my favorite music in the series
https://youtu.be/MF4LnJZTyOQ
By far my favorite track in the whole franchise.
>sexy Japanese nihilism
Care to elaborate? I am at a loss.