/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8752264
No need to fight, to each their own.
Thanks to modern tech, everyone can get what they want and enjoy.

don't want to
shit thread tbqhwy

>>8752264
>I honestly dig the square pixels more.
Okay.
Unless you're an indie game developer who thinks low-res pixel art is a "style", you're not bothering anybody.

People spend more time obsessing about this shit than they do actually playing games. I just bought a Chinese handheld, slapped a few thousand games on it and called it a day. Everything looks great, can’t complain

>>8752264
I whole heartedly agree.

Never forget that the Game Boy came out in 1989 and had raw square pixels

Pic related, official Nintendo material from the time period

>>8752276
You may personally dislike it, but it most definitely is a style.

>>8752287
looks like fake scanlines to me on ridley there

>>8752287
crt autismos btfo

>>8752281
Looks pretty slick ngl. Is that actual wood?

>>8752264
Even back when pretty much every screen you encountered was a CRT, I always wished that the TV looked as sharp and clear as our computer monitor and had no idea why it wasn't.
People who get butthurt about people liking RGB and PVMs are overly focused on nostalgia.
I would have loved crystal clear pixels back in the day too.

>>8752302
It’s plastic, but yeah it looks good af irl, way cooler than the regular black and grey models. I think the wood grain pattern is different on each one too

>>8752264
You could at least use a grid filter if you want square pixels

>>8752352
You could at least use a good one if you want a grid filter.

>>8752352
>>8752405
Brušky, just get a 21" 240x160 pixel display and do 1:1, no need for filters.

Is a better look than with a CRT filter.

>>8752264
The CRT image is obviously not how Samus is supposed to look. Another loss for that shit-tier tech.

>>8752264
Like What You Like
No Use For Anger Fren

>>8752409
Can I get a rundown on these? What's the best one to buy?

>>8752264
Same here

>>8752264
while the color is a bit faded, the overall crt look just has more SOVL. but ultimately non of that shit matters, just play the damn game.

>>8752761
I agree.

>>8752281
anbernic does a good job provided decent handhelds for playing gba and anything 4th gen and below. i got the 351m and it's well worth the price.

>>8752763
Isn't it? They obviously designed the character with the limitations of the display technology in mind.

>>8752870
>They obviously designed the character with the limitations of the display technology in mind.
Doesn't feel like it.

>>8752264
The original Metroid sucks anyway, it's probably the worst first entry in a franchise I've ever seen. Even Metroid II, which ran on far less capable hardware and with an LCD screen was better.

>>8753379
Metroid 1 is easily the best game in the series

>>8753379
>far less capable hardware
Game Boy's processing was massively more powerful than NES, it was more capable of a Metroid-like game if anything. The NES had to take many more shortcuts than the Game Boy in terms of how the environment worked, had to spawn and how it had to reuse things more often, because it had lower cartridge space (there is only overlap between the upper end of NES cartridge storage and the lower end of GB cart storage), under half the processing power (and a more limited instruction set) and a quarter of the working ram.

It just had lower res and less colors, which doesn't hamper how well a Metroid-type game can run.

>>8752264
Same here. I was never nostalgic for heavy, blurry CRTs. I'm just fine playing retro games on lighter and larger modern HDTVs. It was a childhood dream of mine to play on big screens and now I can.

>>8753379
What annoys me about Metroid is how bad the shooting is. You literally can't shoot enemies that are on the ground because your pewpews go right over them. That and the level design is super repetitive so it's hard to know where to go (I didn't have this issue with LoZ/AoL).

>>8752264

>>8753668
HD displays is fine for bright colorful cartoony shit but CRT is vastly superior for high quality pixel art with shading.

>>8752281
Looks a bit clumsy to hold when using the thumbstick.

>>8753818
did you just assume my physiology

>>8753674
nothing a bilinear blur filter wouldn't solve

>>8754006
Is this bait?

>>8754087
You can claim that the top is "unironically" better, but everyone will just laugh at you.

>>8754113
That isn't the same image with scanlines though

>>8754113
It's not that. I just have never seen something that looked that shit on LCD aside from Resident Evil upscaled, but that's because it's a tiny image increased in size while the models are rendered at the upscaled resolution. Usually it's something like a gradient becoming more smooth, a brighter pixel filling the darker areas like Dracula's eyes in SOTN, etc. I don't know what the fucks going on there though. It almost looks doctored.

>>8754153
>Usually it's something like a gradient becoming more smooth, a brighter pixel filling the darker areas like Dracula's eyes in SOTN, etc
Transparency too

>>8754002
I actually don't mind hard pixels with a super tight blur around them. I'm not sure what my monitor does when upscaling low resolution signals but it's something like that and looks kino.

>>8752781
Unironically if you actually want one, DIY.

>>8753379
Metroid 1 is great, what the fuck are you talking about

>>8754006
Whoever made this image is a genius

>>8754401
what do you mean?

>>8754407
Means you a dumb fuck cornbread.

>>8752264
frankly I think nes games actually look best on a flat tv or emulator, anything past that really benefits from CRT's

>>8753960
I'm only going by these hands that I know--all too well.

Don't care what you're shaped like.

>>8754468
Why?
You should be able to explain why you think he’s a genius

>>8754002
it still looks blocky as fuck and bilinear looks like shit.

>>8752264
You are right.

>>8754753

>>8753674
Based

Some people like pixely shit, because it's the easiest to get and they don't want to put in effort
Some like thick scanlines, since PVMs aren't so easy to get and make them special
But the golden middle point is just a typical concumer set that still have a bright and colorful picture, plus can be picked up for 5 bucks from any boomers addic

256k 999hz microled televisions when

>>8755004
>256k 999hz
Here bro, it's the first 3 seconds of that new anime you wanted to watch

>>8752352
Which emulator has that filter?

>>8754972
I don’t agree.

>>8755004
Just use a CRT

>>8755091
A modern TV is better.

>>8754407
Because they are two different images. I imagine it was made by a guy who wanted to get a laugh out of all the LCD vs CRT autism

>>8755102
High-end CRT monitors make modern TVs look like tinker toys.

this thread is full of zoomers
get a crt or a s

>>8755281
no

>>8752405
What's a good one? That screenshot looks a lot like handheld/dot.glsl but I actually like it better than how it looks on my screen when I select that shader.
>>8752352
What parameters are you using?

>>8752264
how the hell does the signal generate the extra white parts?

>>8755110
I’m pretty sure those images are a frame apart

>>8755281
I have 4 CRTs.

>>8755851
It's a combination of composite artifact colors and the inherent imperfections of the CRT's convergence of red, green, and blue. In other words, "soul".

I personally don't mind raw pixels but the input lag difference is the main reason why I use a CRT. I tried playing Dr. Mario on my shitty mid 2000s LCD and the difference in response is night and day. Are there even LCDs that can have low input lag like a CRT?

>>8756263
Plenty these days, so long as you turn on Game Mode and play at the panel's native resolution to avoid any upscaling lag. Also, if you're emulating, you can use run-ahead to further drive the input lag down.

>>8755851
The camera can't pick up the wide range of contrast. So it cuts the darker areas off to black and the brighter areas off to white.

>>8752264
okay, no problem

>>8755086
RetroArch with shaders.

>>8752287
Well yeah, the gameboy was an LCD screen that for some reason they thought being tinted green was a good idea

>>8756332
I'm a shaderfag myself, but that pic is not a good showcase. Scanlines shouldn't do whatever your pic is doing.

>>8756350
I agree. I just downloaded the pic for meme folder.

>>8756350
I don't see it.

>>8756385
Same lol

>>8756350
Scanlines will often cause this issue if the pic is resized for visualization.

>>8756424
Thats why a lot of shaders look like shit. The guys making them are going off shitty phone pics of CRTs instead of knowing what they actually look like.

>>8756446
also, shaders mess with a lot of things so you usually need to tinker them for the display

>>8755281
Damn, I wish an s.

I just added scanlines (default) to duckstation and I think it looks nicer but I might just want it to look nicer. in any case it isn't hurting anything.

>>8752264
>Despite being fully aware that old games had a distinctive look on the CRT TVs they were being actually played on back then, I honestly dig the square pixels more.

sure. when the gameboy came out, its dot pitch and lack of light blooming basically pulled back the veil anyways.

>Japanese Developer: After countless man hours we the greatest game artists of the current time have perfected our art. We understand our art will be viewed for CRTs so we have designed that in mind. To do otherwise would be as if look on the Mona Lisa with sun glares covering it all.

>First generation of shit-eaters," Despite devoting my entire existence to this hobby I will invest double digits amount of dollars for a CRTV designed to view art as it was intended by the wisest artists of all. Watch as I ruin my health by consuming thousands of dollars of junk food which gives me painful diarriah

>Second generation of shit-eaters," Oh so this is what old games are like. Really ugly.

>Indie artists," See us making our games ugly is a 'style'.

>First generation of shit-eaters *poops pants

>>8756991
what causes the discrepancy on the right?

>>8756263
>>8756279
>Are there even LCDs that can have low input lag like a CRT?
Nope

>>8757076
Negligible difference.
Be honest. A large modern display is better except for nostalgia purposes.

>>8756350
I think he's either resized the image or it's not correctly scaled

>>8757020
rpi "emulation"

>8 year old gamer
>"wow this game is fun"
>78 year old gamer
>"these pixels do not look the way the developer originally intended"

>>8757134
I’m ancient and I want it to better than the developer intended. Ancient CRTs not things I ever want to have to deal with again.

>>8757020
scaling

>>8754972
PVMs for "retro appeal" are the most retarded shit ever because it looks nothing like how the games actually looked like on a typical CRT TV at the time and the scanlines are ridiculous: nobody really noticed or cared about them until nu-CRT fags started hyping them, and I say this as someone who still owns and uses the same old CRT my family has had for many years.

Even PC CRT monitors have their own issues: they scale differently with respect to a CRT TV and hence games do not look like they originally. Watch these videos for a detailed demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgzVK5aYczI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W86eYfO2nac

There is nothing wrong as long with using any kind of display as long as you honestly like it and you're aware of the differences, but I wish people stopped hyping up overpriced shit such as PVM as "the real retro™ experience" when it's just a lie.

>>8755123
Prove it.

>>8756263
>>8756279
>>8757076
>>8757095
CRTs having lower input lag is a myth, or at least, it's not an inherent advantage of the display technology itself. The additional input lag on newer digital TVs is caused by the fact that they have poor built-in ADCs. If you use a separate, high quality ADC, the input lag becomes once again just as good as CRTs. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3tbcUszA2s

As a counterexample, this is a LCD with a proper ADC built in. You can see that the input lag is virtually indistinguishable from the CRT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQyYhudVwvc

>>8756342
What a stupid analogy. Have fun fitting a CRT on a handheld.

>>8752319
>I would have loved crystal clear pixels back in the day too.
Damn right. It's called upgrading.

>>8755123
>>8757323
High end CRTs are useless for /vr/ gaming.

>>8757375
That's not what the original claim was.

>>8757328
Not sure what ADC means but the reason for higher lag has been solved now
it was related to VSYNC, slow USB polling rates and low FPS
The benefits CRT has are lack of motion blur and better looking 240p/480i content and less need for high cost

>>8757473
Not that anon, but ADC is analog to digital converter.

The thing is, TVs, regardless of consumer price, are cheap garbage for consooming Netflix. When you buy a TV, you never know what you get. Monitors are much more decent, and their 5ms input lag is, for virtually all intents and purposes, completely negligible.

>>8757020
Non-integer scaling without interpolation. Easily fixable.

>>8757323
Take a peek inside your new HDTV and then inside your BVM and tell me which is a more impressive machine.
>>8757375
I use high-end CRTs for console and PC gaming. Not useless at all. In fact, I find them essential.

>>8758017
>Take a peek inside your new HDTV and then inside your BVM and tell me which is a more impressive machine.
What a childish mindset. What matters is the end result, not the internals. The one that can produce the better image is the better technology.

In fact, given the same image quality, the simpler technology is actually more impressive, because it can do more with less. A fool admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity.

>>8758045
I was referring to the machines themselves, but the image quality is superior on CRTs as well.

It's ok to prefer square pixels. they can look aesthetic. I don't even know if this PC-98 game was meant to be blurred, but it sure looks nice on a 480i display.

>>8758142
original of the crt picture someone in discord posted.
https://imgur.com/a/6NQny4A

>>8752276
NES developer here, I bought a CRT simply because I wanted to see how things would work on a real system. Actually seeing the end result made me add it to my development pipeline. There are some things emulator's cant capture. Actually understanding how dithering, sprite flicker and color effect CRT screens really added an extra layer of authenticity to my work. Dont get me wrong I enjoy the blocky feel sometimes, but if you really want the full experince invest in a decent CRT.

>>8758142
>PC-98
Computer monitors had way higher resolution than TV monitors. I think the PC-98 was even higher res than other computer monitors at the time because the Japanese language needed it to be legible.

>>8758828
>decent CRT
any recommendations?

>>8752269
fpbp

>>8758828
You were able to output 240p from your PC?, its been a topic of sad promises here on /vr/

>>8759640
Not him but I was able to do 240p and 480i 31khz on my PVM with my PC with Linux and Nouveau drivers. I had to stop though because when I boot up my PC it sends the wrong signal and I got paranoid it was going to ruin my PVM.

>>8759743
>I had to stop though because when I boot up my PC it sends the wrong signal and I got paranoid it was going to ruin my PVM.

Then what was the point for retroarch to add CRTswitch then if no one can do it safely?

>>8759743
why are you playing dungeon keeper on a tv

>>8752264

Here's how it would actually look like on a CRT, faggot.

>>8760028
left is still better

>>8760028
nah, it actually looks better, it's really awkward getting CRT's right because they are emitting light directly into the lens

>>8759821
I don't know anything about retroarch and I probably could do it safely but I don't want to fuck around with it again. I just use linux as my default OS and plugged the monitor straight into my graphics card

>>8759832
Are PVMs TVs? I thought they were monitors. Anyways my desktop CRT died and it took a while to replace. I was playing all my old PC games through a PVM for a while. It was a pretty surreal experience but now I have a proper desktop CRT again.

>>8760105
>Are PVMs TVs?
kind of, considering they're mostly 15khz

>>8759163
80's computer monitors weren't that high res though, most weren't even 31khz

>>8759179
He can’t give you a recommendation because he is lying.

>>8759821
>Then what was the point for retroarch to add CRTswitch then if no one can do it safely?
I don't turn on my CRT before I'm in Windows, I deleted all the non-240p modes so it can't send the wrong signal once it's booted up.

>>8759743
>I was able to do 240p and 480i 31khz on my PVM
Are you talking about 60Hz or 120Hz? Since I'd expect your PVM is 15khz and not 31khz
Some PVMs did support 480p at 31khz though

>>8760667
You might be right. It's been a long time since I got really into this autistic crap so I might be mixing the khz up with computer monitors.

>>8760671
I think those PVMs that do 31khz have multiple boards in them

>>8760028
right looks a million times better
you can see how it bleeds detail, while left with is pixelshit has none of it

even samus arm looks like it has a shoulderplate instead of fucking flat colours

>>8761038
she didn't have a shoulderplate until metroid 2 retard that's part of the lore

>>8761607

>>8761607
>>8761947

>>8761947
>>8761951
ok maybe i was wrong but it is true that they're not as massive as later games
which was the point in 2 since there's no color and it just stuck afterwards
same for missiles changing your gun shape

>>8761953
there's no 'but'; you were wrong and you're the retard. learn to cope with being a huge faggot.

>>8754972
there are good reasons for PVMs that the plebs on /vr/ wouldn't understand. 15khz RGB was common for late 80s/early 90s micro computers. It's easy to make TTL to analog converters for old computers. many PVMs are multi format to use PAL computers and a quick underscan/overscan switch helps with computers. They have a completely square shape so they're easy to tate mode and store/move around. Either way, you can't find them for cheap anymore because people want to play SMB3 with scan lines. It was fun while it lasted.

>>8753668
It's like CRTs create the visual effect of texture filtering without making everything look washed out and muddy.

>>8753674
>>8754972
I really don't think 2D Mario games benefit from a CRT. I'm not just blind, right?

>>8761947
>IT MAY BE INVADED BY THE OTHER METROID.

She was the Metroid all along.

>>8763040
>I must defeat the Metroids!
>No Samus, you are the Metroids
>And then Samus was The Baby

Test

>>8763040
>She was the Metroid all along.
Spoiler:That's what happens in Dread

>>8762027
The thing is, finding RGB capable 15kHz computer monitors from the same period is much easier and MUCH cheaper, have the same capabilities when it comes to NTSC/PAL and RGB, geometry pots, over/underscan switches and good tubes. Plus they aren't as deep.

>>8752264
The square pixels take is fine. It just better be on an OLED bare minimum though.

>>8752264
Does it really look like that? Looks more like the left on my CRT

>>8752264
Just loaded up Metroid on my CRT and it looks like a blurry shitty version of the left, nothing like the right. This image is fake as fuck.

>>8763597
Nah, just a typical concumer TV of the 80's hooked up to a real NES over RF. Literally how I first played Metroid, the sprite like it looks or the right is burned into my mind forever.

>>8753668
Holy shit, that look so good

>>8752264
of course I prefer square pixels because I can really enjoy the PIXEL ART they put into it instead of this blurry shit where I can't even make out shit and
>oh the pixels are gone
but I like pixels!

>>8763590
it depends on the crt, which is something that no one ever mentions in these threads lmao

>>8753668
>creates detail that wasn't even there
fake & gay

>>8763590
Maybe you've got a high res one? It used to look like the right to me when I was a kid. It was a really old tv, from the 80's, but even the ones 90's looked like the right one. I couldn't see a single pixel in none of the games.

>>8757146
Unfathomably based

>>8757146
Absurdly cringe.

>>8762706
Super Mario World does

>>8757146
incroyably based.

>>8752276
>Unless you're an indie game developer who thinks low-res pixel art is a "style"
Why is low poly a "style" but not low res sprites? 16x, 32x, 64x and 128x resolutions have been the standard for over 2 decades before the rise of 3D.

>>8754006
Care to explain why the black pixels on the top get completely removed by CRT scanlines? That doesn't make any sense.

>>8756115
>. In other words, "soul".
We need to legalize murdering these retards. Stop degrading the English language already for fuck sake.

>>8757146
Speak English.

Sharp pixels can look good with really simple 8 or 16 bit, but detailed 16 to 128 bit graphics look better on CRT to me. I also watch old TV shows on a CRT because I don't like how most anti-aliasing works.

>>8765997
FYI the American accent is older than the Bri'ish accent.

>>8766180
No it isn’t, you must be comparing accents using filters and not as the original developers intended.

>>8765986
They don't get removed, they are still there.

>>8766002
Very well.
I would rather things looked better than they did on an ancient CRT. I don’t care about scanlines and blur. Crisp pixels are fine.
Also stop the autism. You understood the post.

>>8766316
Speak English.

>>8766204
lol

>>8756350
thats what happens when you dont use integer scaling.

>>8752264
I won't fight you. I would rather see bright colors than drowned out colors any day.

>>8752287
I actually had that fucking calendar

>>8768078
that's not really what CRT's look like, It's just hard to get pics because of the way light is emitted by the screens
here's a better colour representation