/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8746142
>DoS
Play origins instead

>not pixel remaster

There are flaws, but I say they are forgivable considering the time period it was released and considering the time frame within it was developed in. Obviously improvements that were made were to either focus on skill proficiencies or raising stats rather than both at once. It's just easy for people to pick apart because it is probably how they don't want a JRPG to play as since it strays from the typical experience points and character level mechanics.

>>8746153
fuck off with that trash

>>8746142
>>8746147
>>8746153
So much wrong in this thread. Patch the NES with an English translation and play it the right way
I'm glad you're enjoying the game though. It really gets a lot of undue hate.

>>8746178
What's wrong with it?

Didn't they completely revamp the experience system for the GBA version of Final Fantasy II?XY8KD

>>8746142
I'm pretty sure that multi casting buffs or debuffs only reduces accuracy and not effect. At least it always seemed that way to me. Obviously multi casting attack spells reduces individual damage.

>>8746179
The Famicom game is plagued by typical Nasir dogshit coding. Origins is the definitive version

>>8746184
it's ugly

>>8746192
>Selling your SOVL for an easier time
You disgust me

>>8746142
>The Famicom game is plagued by typical Nasir dogshit coding.
It's programmed well enough. If you don't like the cancel exploit either don't use it or patch it out.
>Origins is the definitive version
No it isn't. Origins forces you to play FFII in easy mode until you beat it to unlock the normal difficulty and that's total fucking bullshit. The NES version is superior since it isn't nerfed for babies.

>>8746142
>I'm playing the GBA (Dawn of Souls) versions, and holy shit, this game blows FF1 out of the wate
yea
i get why people hate on it, as its literally broken
but so is FF, arguably moreso. the double standard is a little fishy
i think the dialog options was a really cool idea, especially for the time. not necessarily implemented the best way, but still a good idea

the lvling system is also cool as fuck, tho again not implemented in the best way
when i first played it, i had no idea you could just wail on your own party tho, so i had a good time with it

tl;dr lotta cool ideas in FF2 imo

>>8746212
I don't speak reddit memes. Rephrase your post

>>8746224
sobless

>accidentally replying to OP instead of that faggot >>8746192

>>8746217
Origins isn't in easy mode, and it is not locked in easy mode you ttard. You are thinking of DoS. Next time play the fuckin games before posting. Dipshit

>>8746232
>Origins isn't in easy mode
Yes it is
>it is not locked in easy mode
Yes it is. It's locked in easy mode until you beat it.
>You are thinking of DoS
No I'm not.
>Dipshit
Kill yourself

>>8746232
Gottem

Definitive best versions of the first six Final Fantasy games:
>FF1
PSP
>FF2
PSP
>FF3
If you want 2D, pixel remaster. If you want 3D, PC 3D.
>FF4
If you want 2D, PSP. If you want 3D, PC 3D.
>FF5
Old delisted PC port with mods.
>FF6
Old delisted PC port with mods.

>>8746147
I thought about it, but for FF2 at least, you have to beat it on Easy once to get access to Normal mode, so I was going to be stuck playing Easy either way. The GBA version also came with bonus dungeons, and I figured I'd give the extra content a shot. It was horrendous in FF1 and I didn't bother completing it, but the FF2 one sounds more promising, so we'll see when I get there.
>>8746153
I heard the bonus content was removed from that version, and that they changed the mechanics substantially in both games.
>>8746179
I underestimated how much the games would be changed from the NES to the GBA (it's hard to find detailed information), and this might be the right way to do it for future players. But I honestly am not sure if I would have finished FF1 if the difficulty was much higher, and the spells were more bugged, because it's quite a chore. I don't know if having Vancian magic would make the game more strategic or more tedious. I wouldn't say FF2 is a "good" game, per se, but it isn't irredeemable trash like the impression I was given beforehand. I can't really imagine any reason to recommend FF1 to anyone though, besides its clever use of zone gating / progression.
>>8746169
Both the games are way easier than the original versions, and it's a shame, because they went too far with it. In FF2, having certain stats increase would (sometimes?) cause other stats to decrease, and I can see that being frustrating to micromanage, but it isn't present in the GBA version. The core idea of the skill growth system is quite good though, and it feels somewhat intuitive at a high level.
>>8746189
See above, otherwise, the core approach is intact.
>>8746190
That's what I assumed, but I've read a few people saying the effects on both are reduced by 3/4 as well. The hidden and temporary nature of so many effects makes it hard to test.
>>8746223
>wail on your own party
Sounds like cheesing to me, so I don't do it, but I guess it's cool to have.

>>8746262
>FF 4
>If you want 2D, PSP
I think the PSP version looks ugly af i still don't get why they changed the sprites so hard... i mean FF1 and FF2 looked perfect on the PSP
FF4 looks like cheap deviantart shit

>>8746142
I'm like 99% sure that in the original version you can not choose whether a buff targets the whole party or just one.

You should be play the Famicom or PSX version though. DoS most likely casualized the game by a ton and fucked some mechanics.
The PSX version is probably best because it has bugfixes yet you can still do the cancel exploit to lvl them up faster (unlike bugfixes hacks for the famicom version). Otherwise it's pretty much identical to the original version except that you have a slightly bigger inventory (but still feels small...) and you have the option to turn on auto-targetting, which I would recommend not to.

>battles where you have to do something other than press "A" as fast as possible

That's pretty much most Famicom jRPGs. jRPG gameplay went downhill after that especially in regards to random battles and keeping them engaging.

>>8746292
>Sounds like cheesing to me, so I don't do it, but I guess it's cool to have
its the cheesiest
you can literally max your shit out outside the first town
apparently its common knowledge now
wasnt when i emulated it for the first time tho

suppose it could be nice if you find yourself stuck later and dont wanna grind tho

>>8746292
>In FF2, having certain stats increase would (sometimes?) cause other stats to decrease

I think that's only for Attack and Intelligence, but it's not too bad. I made the girl into my main spellcaster whenever I played and she still managed to hit decently, though most of the times it didn't matter because she was busy using spells.
Other instances of stat decrease would be due to equipment, for instance having your evasion lowered because you're wearing heavy armor and no shield to compensate.

>wailing on your own party

That's probably the lamest way to break the game and also not the most effective.
If you want to break the game, you equip one shield in each hand and hit air for an hour or two. THEN you go to Myssidia by running and avoiding all attacks, and grind there to buy kick ass spells and equipment as early as Mindu joining the party, pic related

>>8746292
>I wouldn't say FF2 is a "good" game, per se

Dude FF2 is one of the best Final Fantasy per se, I personally prefer FF2 to certain other FF games, which are poorly written soap operas that despite having some good characters are still full of shit. I'm glad you enjoy the game, in my personal opinion the correct way to play FF2 is the Famicom version with Chaos Rush's patch: https://www.romhacking.net/translations/2656/

>>8746262
FF6 PR is better than thebold PC version even with mods just for its soundtrack alone.

Everytime I look at my screenshots I'm always amazed at how great the PSX version looks. I can't believe I had doubts at first because someone uploaded some really shitty screenshots on mobygames.

>>8746335
FF2 is probably my 2nd favourite FF after 8 (I didn't play anything after 9).
I love the setting and story of the game, the way it's grounded in reality and the fantasy elements are so light especially early on. It's very much a war story except they end up using magic as weapons which makes a lot of sense to me.

>>8746294
I mainly meant in terms of content. FF4 PSP has the most content of any version

>>8746343
I genuinely think Final Fantasy 2's story is underrated, and it's one of the best in the franchise.

>>8746365
its definitely better than the absolute lack thereof in 1

>>8746393
I always thought the time travel shit in Final Fantasy 1 was stupid and unnecessary, I mean, what supposed to contribute the story that the Final Battle is in the past and that the main villain is stuck in a Time-Loop?? Like, it's so random and has nothing to do with the rest of the game, you could swap out the time travel element of the plot for something else and it wouldn't change much.

>>8746527
the whole plot seems like an afterthought imo. like they thought
>ok so they gotta go get all the crystals
>what else is cool?
>how about time-travel?
>BRILLIANT
>[furious underpaid iranian coding noises]
tbf they thought they were all losing their jobs imminently, so its hard to blame them for playing it on the safe side and going the DQ route
and other than phantasy star, they had no direct competition

>>8746541
According to my sources Final Fantasy started as a project long before Dragon Quest, but Dragon Quest made it out first because the code for Final Fantasy 1 was a mess at some point.

>>8746564
>because the code for Final Fantasy 1 was a mess at some point.
lol poor nasir just had no clue wtf he was doing

>>8746262
>2D / 3D
I don't care about graphics; is there a gameplay difference? It looks like the remaster is only available for phone (lol) or Steam, and for $18 at that. If it's significantly better, I'll consider/pirate it, but I like having old games available on my shittier Linux system.
>>8746297
>PSX version
Agreed, but since I'm done with FF1 and halfway through FF2 I'll just keep at it that point. Prospective players should take note, though.
>cancel exploit
I am not interested in exploits.
>auto-targetting
Why turn it off? I don't think strategic depth would outweigh the vast tedium it would bring to the unending overworld battles.
>downhill after that
Went downhill *after* non-stop A-spamming? I've never really enjoyed JRPGs, but it's a grim task ahead of me if that's true.
>>8746316
>stuck later
I'd be surprised, the difficulty is quite low. Only in the past hour or so have there been (occasional) fights where I need to do something other than spam A.
>>8746329
>only for Attack and Intelligence
Supposedly, it's for all of them in a cycle. Increasing Intelligence lowers Stamina, and so forth. It sucks that most of the armor you find is worthless because evasion is so much more important than defense. I've never played an RPG where the ideal way to play was having literally half of your equipment slots left empty. The game breaking sounds amusing for replaying.
>>8746335
>>8746343
I may FF2 to another one as I go, but if it's one of the best, I'm concerned. The gameplay is still bland, and the story is rudimentary, even if it flows well and the dialogue isn't stilted. It seems like a pretty incremental step forward from FF1.
>>8746527
I thought it was amusing. They seemed to take random western fantasy ideas (elements, D&D monsters, ancient advanced cultures, airships, etc.) and stitch them all together. Not having time travel would have been even more bizarre. The whole "YOU were the hero! Be a good person in real life!" ending made me laugh out loud.

>>8746179
>the thrilling Final Fantasy 2 beat the shit out of yourself experience but you can’t run, all the dungeons look the same, everything is slow as molasses and it’s riddled with Nasir glitches

Usually I’d agree and tell you to stick with the original games with a patch as the experience but FF2 vanilla Famicom is fucking ghastly. The only way you’ll have a modicum of fun with an already questionable game is with the remakes, the original is fucking dogshit in comparison

>>8746262
FF4 is the most cursed game in the entire franchise. Every single port and redoing has something wrong with it

>SNES original
>atrocious translation
>Active battle system hasn’t been fully worked out yet so it’s awkward and chaotic in battles
>swarms of fan translations that sometimes make the experience worse

>GBA
>riddled with slowdown
>somehow glitchier than the original
>glitches completely alter how battles are meant to play out
>somehow runs worse than the original

>Wonderswan
>worse slowdown than the GBA port
>downgraded 8-bit tier audio
>glitchy as fuck, game totally shits itself from time to time

>PSP
>hideous new character sprites
>entire art style is changed and looks uglier as a result

>Pixel remaster
>questionable art choices
>extremely handholdly
>hideous UI

haven’t played the DS remake but I’m sure that’s also got something glaringly wrong with it

>>8746613
The original version of FFII is the best version. If your brain is too smooth to comprehend the gameplay or you're too much of a bitch to play it without exploits that's your own fault.

>>8746609
>The gameplay is still bland
Really play the NES version later, in that version the difficulty of the game really pushes the gameplay to its limits, the Magic Penalty from Weapons and Armor makes you to optimize things and think outside the box, which for me is the main magic of the gameplay, the fight against yourself and distribute what you need in just 3 characters.

Also in the NES version the enemies are much more cruel, but bosses are easier thou lol, that is like the one thing which is more hard in the GBA version.

>>8746630
What about PS1?

>>8746609
>>2D / 3D
>I don't care about graphics; is there a gameplay difference?
Gameplay, as well as story, yes.

>>8746142
>But does multi-targeting reduce only spell power, or also spell accuracy?
Spell power. It's dividing the damage up across multiple targets.
>Do buffs have reduced impact when multi-targeting (e.g., am I better off casting Berserk on each party member individually)?
Generally, buffs are cast at one level lower when set party-wide. It's more obvious when you need to cast Basuna or Esuna on someone, make it a party wide cast, but despite having just high enough level to cure the affliction, will miss anyway. Some spells like berserk can be stacked so it isn't so much of a problem.
As for why people shit on it? Misinformation. The myth of having to "attack your own party to level up" has been perpetuated for years, to the point that people say it just because they heard someone else say it. The fact of the matter is, you never had to do that. If you just played the game normally your stats would be in the right shape throughout. There may be a little grinding needed because it's an older RPG, but attacking yourself actually makes the game HARDER in the long run, as only your HP gets buffed up by doing that, meaning your other stats are shit, and enemies are going to start dealing damage by percentages.

>>8746630
GBA was a port of Wonderswan, and the EU version fixed most of it's issues.

>>8746212
Origins is the best version of FF1 and 2. They are the original versions if they were programmed correctly, except they doubled Chaos' HP. So it's mostly the same game and actually faithful but in some ways harder

>>8746153
I hope you like your FF2 not playing like FF2 anymore while being simultaneously easy and annoying.

>>8746609
>literally half of your equipment slots left empty.

You don't have to do that...

>>8746609
>>auto-targetting
>Why turn it off? I don't think strategic depth would outweigh the vast tedium it would bring to the unending overworld battles.


If the battles are unending, you're doing it wrong. No auto-target makes combat more engaging because you have to remember enemies HP and your own dmg values and use moves accordingly; rather than stacking everyone against the main threat because once it's down they'll automatically attack the next one, or even not choosing any target at all and just spamming Attack. In short you're complaining that gameplay isn't very good but there are two versions that do things to keep each battle engaging.

But more importantly the game was balanced that way.

Also, in the case of FF2, any attack at the air will potentially contributes to your stat gain.

>>8746609
>The gameplay is still bland, and the story is rudimentary, even if it flows well and the dialogue isn't stilted.

Since you consider that you have such high criteria, I kindly invite you to tell me what it is for you a JRPG with really good gameplay, exceptional, everything but "bland gameplay", and that you also tell me which is for you a JRPG with really good dialogue and story. You don't necessarily have to give examples of Videogames that have both characteristics, they can be different games for each case.

Got a special snowflake over here.

Final Fantasy II is secretly EXTREMELY based. I love Final Fantasy I to death as well but 2 is such a revolution in concept.

Pic is favorite enemy so far. Can't just spam attack!
>>8747679
>Spell power
So I do 1/4 damage, but my chance at hitting each is unchanged?
>cast one level lower
That does match what I've seen, thanks. Can you tell in-game what each Esuna level cures, or do you have to look it up?
I might have to do a small bit of grinding, because I want a couple levels in different weapons and spells - I have used almost no magic and only one or two weapon types. That seems fair, since I "leveled them wrong" (didn't understand how level/enemy scaling worked), as opposed to many games where the case would be "you're weak even though you played normally, go grind 5 levels".
The leveling system here is possibly the best I've seen in an RPG, certainly better than Morrowind's, which is the closest to come to mind. Maybe the NES version would be more aggravating, maybe more balanced, I don't know. It seems like it would restrict character building options.
>>8747750
I'm only putting on gloves/helmets/heavy armor if they are out of MP or their evasion caps out at 99. I feel like evasion and spell accuracy are a lot more important than flat damage reduction - when my armored characters take a hit, it's still for a moderate amount, and I think it would add up fast at 50% evasion.
>>8747870
>unending
I mean there's a random encounter about once every eight steps. Most are trivial encounters where my guys one-shot any enemy on the field; probably 80% fit that description. Making each of those battles take 30% longer real-time, because I have to manually assign each attack to each enemy, doesn't seem like a good trade-off for the other 20%. I understand how it would benefit, but the cost outweighs it, no?
>>8748697
I haven't played many JRPGs; I'm comparing against all games I could be spending time on. Chrono Trigger had a much better story, Mother 3 as well, though the latter probably had worse gameplay than FF2; I couldn't finish it. I believe the PSX version of FF2 would be even better.

>>8749118
>I mean there's a random encounter about once every eight steps. Most are trivial encounters where my guys one-shot any enemy on the field; probably 80% fit that description. Making each of those battles take 30% longer real-time, because I have to manually assign each attack to each enemy, doesn't seem like a good trade-off for the other 20%. I understand how it would benefit, but the cost outweighs it, no?

This is because in my scenario you're not one shotting everything. I only played FF1 DoS, not 2, I should have assumed DoS 2 was just as trash as 1.

>>8749150
I don't know why I didn't explicitly address that - if I was playing PSX, I would leave the auto-targeting off, yes. The difficulty drop in FF2 can't be as significant as it was for FF1 (which basically had none in Dawn of Souls, at least for the original content), but it is still way too low on GBA.
If I ever replay this game for some reason, it will absolutely be the PSX version. I have no idea why they dropped the original difficulty mode from Dawn of Souls; I feel like they could have gotten by with a simple "-30% to skill growth" adjustment or something and not had any additional memory requirements. I can't believe anyone would have playtested this GBA version and thought "yeah, this is how a game should be".

>>8749118
>I haven't played many JRPGs; I'm comparing against all games I could be spending time on.

Well still I'm curious which are for you games with good not-bland gameplay, simply because I like to know what things people like when I see their reaction to FF2.

>>8749118
>Can you tell in-game what each Esuna level cures, or do you have to look it up?
Nah. It's one of those things where you had to try it yourself and write it down. Maybe the manual would tell you what the first couple levels would do, maybe not. In today's day and age, it's just "look it up"

>>8746142
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=320ElVeZSTU
Here watch this if you've got an hour to kill, it pretty much goes into why everyone thinks FF2 is a bad game when it's really not.
And it's not even one of those predatory "hey this game is relevant again so I'm gonna make a video about it" videos since it was done before the Pixel Remasters were even announced.

>>8749348
>FF2 is not a bad game
>he's talking about the GBA version

>>8749357
I fail to see how this is a problem. Everything said is retroactively true about Famicom, Wonderswan, and PS1.

>>8746630
You forgot
>US version inexplicably removes everyone but Edward's special abilities

>>8746630
what's handholdy about the pixel remaster?
i mean I noticed a little bit of extra talk about save points but that's it really

>>8749295
>a JRPG with really good gameplay
I haven't played a JRPG that I thought had good gameplay, although I guess Chrono Trigger was the best, if I had to name one, if only because party composition had notable impact on gameplay, and I could avoid most "random" encounters if they didn't seem worthwhile. Mother 3 allowed you to avoid certain underleveled random encounters, but it doesn't come into play quite all that often, and I still found the combat somewhat simplistic. The ticking health bar idea was a neat way to add pressure to a turn-based environment, though.
But your latest post makes it sound like you now mean gameplay amongst all types of games?
>>8749338
You're right, it does actually say in the manual, though it doesn't mention how the level varies from multi-targeting or in/out of combat. I didn't consult the manual much after it neglected to mention that there was a map function - I'm glad I played FF1 first, or I wouldn't have known.
>>8749348
I'll check this out soon, even though I don't think the game is bad. I'm not too concerned about spoilers...
>>8749357
...although this strikes me as strange, if that's the only version he talks about. It's the only version I've played, and I can already tell there's no way GBA is the definitive way to play this.

>>8749470
>But your latest post makes it sound like you now mean gameplay amongst all types of games?

Yes that's what I was actually asking, do you like idk Zelda, Metroid, Dark Souls, Sparkster, Escape from Tarkov, Kirby, etc.?? You already mentioned Chrono Trigger to me as an example of a JRPG with good gameplay for you, but I was asking about your preferences outside of the genre.

>>8746541
the plot was an afterthought

>>8746671
Yeah I love all the dead-end rooms or that time I softlocked my game bc I couldn't leave a hallway without 6 sorcerers spamming Death 12 and killing my whole party before they got their first move.

>>8749585
You could make the same argument with all the best Famicom RPG. FF1, DQ series, Mother, etc

Except that in the case of FF2 you actually are given a chance to do something about those situations if you prioritize evasion instead of reaching ridiculous amount of HP like 2875

Always wanted to play FF2, I think it's the only FF I haven't (beyond the first town).

>>8748787
The innovations are very commendable, I agree.
>>8749348
I just watched it. He's right about most points, especially when he takes the strategy of pointing out that it's legitimate weak points are present in the other games of the series (or genre), so it's unfair to single out FF2 for having them. That said, the video is a rebuttal to negative reviews that I haven't read, so I didn't find it particularly controversial. My two big issues are that he mostly spends time defending the leveling system and the argument about self-targeted attacks for grinding, whereas these systems worked differently in the original NES version, which he isn't playing. He says that he still sees complaints about them in the GBA reviews, I trust him on that, and arguing against those reviews is the point of the video, but it still comes across as uninformed. I also got the impression he fights regular combat against random encounters to be "grinding", so I don't think he understands what that is. I also don't think attacking yourself at full strength is representative of the grinding strategy people utilize. In the end, he's still correct that people should just try the game rather than trusting reviewers so blindly.
>>8749639
It's cool! Play it, but I think Dawn of Souls is probably not the version to play, the difficulty drop hurts the game a lot, PSX seems promising.
>>8749504
To reiterate, I wouldn't say Chrono Trigger has "good" gameplay, more so that it's the best amongst JRPGs that I've played. I haven't played all of these recently, but for games that I recall as having strong gameplay (in practice or mechanics alone), either overall or for their genres:
Alpha Centauri, Baldur's Gate II, Braid, Doom, Dwarf Fortress, FTL, GTA: San Andreas, Halo 2, Hotline Miami, Majora's Mask, Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus, Quake III, Resident Evil 4, Silent Hill, Slay the Spire, Tetris, Warcraft III, Worms Armageddon
What would you say some examples are? I'm curious if they're much different.

>>8749689
Every version of FF2 has had the same complaints made about it since the Famicom version, right up to the Pixel Remaster. Most of the people making these complaints are just parroting and haven't really bothered to see how the different versions change some of the mechanics.
It's also why the "beat the shit out yourself" strategy is always so recommended despite being a trap in the long term. Parrots parroting things about games they've never played.

Final Fantasy 2 is a prototype SaGa game. The SaGa games build upon the foundation of FF2 and address the issues of FF2

>>8749715
how I wish this were true

>>8749720
Which part is false?

>>8749689
>PSX seems promising
Indeed, I played FF1 on NES and PSX, the latter version was excellent.

>>8746142
Dude, there's extra post game story content in the PSP version. If you're gonna play the GBA version you might as well play that, because it's exactly the same game plus more(and graphics which I can see people going either way on).

That being said maybe you can find a save file of the game being beaten for PSP so you can just do the extra story. But it carries over some of your characters from the main story.

hmm, maybe evasion should only reach 16 - 50% maximum instead of 16 - 99%

>>8746179
>the right way
but it's not the FUN way, I don't want to waste my time on a game that's not FUN

>>8751158
PSP got it's extra content from the GBA version. Unless you're saying there's even more on top of that.

>>8749786
don't worry I'm sure he'll be back to clarify his point

>>8749601
No. None of those games had 75% of dungeon doors leading to time-wasting trap rooms.

Getting stuck on that hallway was my fault for using save states. If I'd been playing on original hardware I only would have lost 2 or 3 hours to shitty RNG.

>>8746142
The dialogue system was dumb, and it’s basically pointless. Memorizing keywords is no different than just talking to this guy before that guy to advance the quest. The keyword thing is just extra steps. This is also by far the most boring ff to grind in and the story isn’t worth mentioning at all in this series until ff6. I’m usually a cotrarian, so the fact that I dislike one of the most disliked games in the series probably means that it is just straight up bad. FF1 is also still one of the best in the series btw. It’s the only game that allows you to choose your jobs from the start, but never change them, which is cool as fuck. This game is a complete disaster compared to ff1, it’s not even close

>>8751158
>>8751859
He's right: the PSP has the GBA content and one extra dungeon on top. But it wasn't carried through to the pixel remake (why do these people jumble all of their versions?), which made me think it wasn't of high quality.
The clinch reason for why I played the GBA version is that I wanted games to play on my shitty Linux laptop. I wasn't sure if a PSP emulator would run well. I've never used a PSP and wasn't sure if it would come across well; for example emulating a DS sounds strange on a computer, I don't know if it is fun with a KB+M.
>>8751516
>>8751878
Trap rooms suck. My real bone to pick is that they are all just empty rooms of the same size/shape. Boring. And why are they the only rooms where your party walks through a door and ends up 8 tiles past the door?
I agree that evasion is completely busted. Unfortunately, it's likely such an iconic quirk of the system that changing it would fundamentally make the game "less FF2". They would have to make changes like that on a separate "hard" or "re-balanced" mode.
>>8751898
I don't understand your position. The dialogue system was neat. It doesn't contribute to gameplay, that's true, but it makes the player feel involved, like they have some sort of agency. It also only rarely comes up and adds 2-3 seconds of time to a conversation that is usually a major one and has scripted cutscenes attached anyway.
I think grinding is fundamentally boring, and maybe it's more so here, I can't speak to that because I haven't needed to grind yet (~60% through). How can you fault the FF2 story but give FF1 an (implied) pass? What's better about FF1 than FF2? I disagree very strongly. And if you want set jobs, just decide on character jobs at the start - no one is forcing you to give white magic to the chick, or to equip heavy armor on Firion. You can literally play it exactly as FF1 if you want, and tweak it on top of that ("it was dumb that monks couldn't do X in FF1, so now I can make that small change myself").

>>8749786
>>8751867
I admit that I haven't played all the SaGa games yet, the only one I played completely from start to finish was Romacing SaGa 3, but my experience with the game was quite disappointing. Still, I'm interested in playing all the games when the time comes.

But the game felt like a step back from Final Fantasy 2 did, not a step forward

>Stats growth is deeply based on RNG, rather than some logical process.
>Learning the Skills of the Weapons and getting a specific Waza I wanted, for me it was a PAIN THE ASS because again it was a process strongly based on RNG my fucking god, my character ended up learning evasion techniques all the time that weren't the Waza I wanted to learn, and since a character can only have like 10 Waza equipped at a time, I had to remove some Evade Waza over and over again, which the character relearned because she/he didn't have it mastered, and you know, Evade Wazas aren't quick to master, so apparently I had to master every possible Waza for my character to finally learn the fucking right Waza I wanted.

And you could answer me that it was my mistake for wanting to learn a certain specific cool Weapon Waza that I wanted to have, and not just play the game with the ones I had learned because of the RNG and that, but my answer to that is that my point here is that this is a fucking shitty system because it is too based on RNG, and the SaGa gang wants to sell me that this system is an improvement over FF2 in everyway, yeah NO, and don't tell me that Wazas aren't that important, THEY ARE FUCKING IMPORTANT, because in RS3 contrary to FF2, most Magic is shit and its use is mostly something to complement your use of the Wazas ( Ok FF2 has a lot of magic which is shit too cuz they don't work due to bad codding, but I mean the most important ones you need to beat the game, Blink, Berserk, Frog, Fire, Blizzard, Lightning, Cure, etc., they are useful things that you can use ALL THE TIME, the way RS3 uses magic is very differently).

>>8751965
( part2 )

And don't answer me that I should have played the stupid formation mode to do the combo attacks to play "the real game", what is the damn point of having 8 possible protagonists if it turns out that I should choose Sara as the protagonist to play the "real game"?

And then the grinding that Magic requires is quite annoying:
>You can on a character ONLY have Magic of a Specific Element + Sun/Moon magic, at the beginning of the game there is very little magic accessible around.
>Your character starts with fucking 0/0 MP and you require ome RNG for the number to increase after equipping Magic, and then this number grows ridiculously slow, making it annoying to increase your own Magic Level.

Yeah sure Undine, I also recruited her in my first playthrough, and if it weren't for her, she wouldn't have figured out that it was even possible to use Magic in viable way in the game.

There are several things that I enjoyed about RS3, but at the mechanics level, the game didn't seem like an improvement on FF2 system in anyway to me. Maybe my opinion on the subject will change when I play the other SaGa games complete.

But for now, I am convinced that the people who believe that FF2 was the prototype of what SaGa is, and then "SaGa improved the system", are the same people who believe that the GBA version of FF2 is better than the Famicom version, because they are scare to play the original game cuz they are babies.

>>8751928
I never said the story was better in 1, my point was the the story is so bad in ff1-5 that it shouldn’t even be getting mentioned. It’s like trying to rate the plot of ghosts n goblins, the plot is never going to be the reason you play any of these games. Your other point is only partially valid considering that all of the classes in ff1 have unique base stats, unique characteristics like the thief’s ability to escape battles and the monk’s absorb stat, and stat gains on level up are random

>>8749585
That's not what a softlock is you dork.

>>8752015
>the story is so bad in ff1-5 that it shouldn’t even be getting mentioned

Fucking retarded.

>>8746197
That's subjective.

>>8752040
everything in art is subjective hun.

>>8751928
>and one extra dungeon on top.
Ah, I see. I never played the PSP version, so I thought it was just a straight GBA port in terms of content. The Pixel Remasters were intentionally designed to be closer to the original releases, at least in terms of content. That's why none of the extra stuff is there. It's a strange decision, considering all the other things that DID get carried forward to it. Enhancements and new cutscenes from 1-3, and QoL from 4-6 all got carried forward to the Pixel Remasters, but none of the additional post-game content. Makes no sense.

>>8752039
It’s literally just a compilation of all the most cliched brain dead played out fantasy tropes. None of the characters in the first 5 games are interesting or likeable in the least

>>8752064
For is clear to me that you have reading comprehension problems and you don't know how to understand stories.

>>8752015
Almost all of the class behaviors can be replicated in FF1. You can raise your agility if you want to be able to flee better. While I think the FF2 system is superior for replayability, and requires the player to pay at least some attention to how they play the game, I'll admit this is a matter that mostly hinges on personal taste. But I think the other mechanics are clearly in FF2's favor - there are different weapon types, so you have to be strategic about swapping to a better weapon that you're less experienced with (you can grind that decision away if you're gay), enemies somewhat regularly use special abilities against the party, the spell selection, effects, and cast types are far more varied, certain spells are usually found as drops (adding a bit of depth), equipping certain pieces of armor is a strategic decision rather than just "bigger number better", the sound system works better (at least on GBA; FF1 constantly cuts tracks off because of how frequently you have to go in and out of menus), the enemy formations are more important because you can't hit enemies in the rear from the start, you have the option of hiring fast travel vehicles... and even if the story is not particularly notable in the early FF games (I only know 1 and 2), it is still much superior in 2, though you can consider it below the threshold of validity if you want. The outline is still generic fantasy tropes, yes, but it has scripted events, better writing quality, twists, etc.
>>8752047
>none of the additional post-game content
I actually hadn't realized that myself - something I read gave me the impression that the Soul of Rebirth dungeon was kept, but the other one was not. You're right though, neither are present in the Pixel. This seems like the kind of series where the companies keep rehashing and mixing the content in bizarre ways, when a fan/community mod would be the best-case, picking the mechanics and content in a more experienced and thought-out way.

>>8752069
You might have heard about Scott's battle sprites being present in the PR version.

>>8752070
Honestly, I'm a big fan of 2PR but without the postgame content it does feel really lacking. There isn't a good reason to do anything with the rotating cast if there isn't an endgame that requires you to use them.
I am hoping the PR modding community eventually gets big enough that Soul of Rebirth is ported into PR.

>>8746153
Why aint that sshit on console yet? Fucking dumb.

>>8751859
There is a little more content in the PSP version(plus everything else) but I was wrong because I was mainly referring to Soul of Rebirth. Which GBA is the one that implemented it first. Disregard.

>>8746179
>Patch the NES with an English translation and play it the right way
speaking of; so much wrong in this thread

>>8746316
I did it in the later half of the game so I could regularly flee battles. The random encounters is the one thing about old JRPGs that is hard to stomach even though I enjoy everything else about them a lot. Even with fast forward.

>>8751878
Trap rooms not specifically but there are equivalents. In FF1 for instance, pretty much every dungeon has at least one type of encounter that can decide to fuck you up if they decide without you being able to do anything about it, from mere zombies paralyzing your whole team, cockatrice, hordes of Dark Wizards in the ice cave when a single one of them can OHKO your entire team... meanwhile those dungeons are filled with paths that lead nowhere, with often damaging floors everywhere you go and trap floors. Like that path in the underground cavern where every single step is a trap floor spawning giants, and that path is can not be distinguished for others. Same exact concept as the "trap rooms".

You sound like you're used to playing badly and savescumming your way out of it, and now come crying because it didn't work in FF2. But if you want to play a Famicom RPG, especially one made before the 90's, you're actually going to have to invest yourself and get good.

>>8754264
The difference is that in FF1 they occur as organic "ambushes" that occur through the same mechanism as regular random encounters. It makes sense that, if you're getting ambushed by zombies all over the place, there could be a spot that a pack of giants are waiting to jump you. The only drawback with this system was how, due to implementation limitations, you could re-trigger these ambushes that were clearly meant to be "once only" - you can even farm at least one boss this way.
In FF2 though, you just get teleported into the middle of an empty box and then walk back out of it, usually (but not always) triggering a stronger-than-normal ambush via the random encounter system. What was the point of adding the empty room? It is, quite literally, the "system from above with extra steps". It's also slightly worse because in FF1 you can learn "oh, that corridor goes nowhere", or you can sometimes even see alternate paths (from the bird's eye view) and realize that there is treasure to pick up or a dead-end that way. But in FF2 all you can see is a closed door, whether you've been there or not, so you have to explicitly remember that you've tried that door, or that the 3rd door from the left amongst 4 identical doors next to each other is the one that leads to where you need to go. It's a very minor detail, but it does ever-so-slightly make the exploration less clear. Especially when 75% of the doors, at least, are trap rooms and make the player annoyed at having to enter each room. They also are less interesting because the player knows they'll probably be ambushed when they enter the room, making it not-really-an-ambush. In FF1, you never knew for sure which tiles would trigger a fight (more often near chests, yes). The "monster-in-a-box!" encounters serve the same purpose as the trap rooms, are just as foreseeable, but don't slow down the gameplay or make navigation more tedious.