/vr/ - Retro Games

>>867796
The player is the entity

>>867815
That was always my impression.

Gordon died during the resonance cascade
>1998

>>867835
Or he was just took a big ass hit of acid before donning his suit. Either way seems pretty reasonable I think.

I believe Chrono is from Zeal, and that's why his Sword Technique has the Heaven attribute before meeting Spekkio.

>>867796
>>867815
I guess you can believe whatever you want, but the original script makes it clear they're talking about the Planet. Hell, the final chapter is called "At the end of the Planet's dream".

Cross also confirms this.

>>867835

I'm interested in your support for this

>>868147
I believe Crono's father is Dalton.

All seven sages in Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time are dead by the time you beat the temple they represent. They can't leave the temple and have become light energy.

Saria - died from the monster invasion of the woods.
Darunia - Volvagia killed him.
Princess Ruto - lost in the Water Temple.
Impa - died trying to reseal the Shadow Temple.
Nabooru - Vaporized right in front of you.
Rauru - was dead to begin with.

I disregard Inafune's opinions because he went back on Zero massacring everyone, he isn't really fit for the game's stories.

I personally think that X is the original Mega Man, repaired after a fatal battle with either Wily or Zero. This stems from when I was a kid, thinking X was just Megaman upgraded.

This is why Light calls X his greatest creation in the intro to X1, because he expressed more love for his robot kids in other games. The whole bit on "free will" in the intro is about Mega having a young adult body. This makes sense since the death of the classic characters is far off, and in Mega Man 10 Rock's a teen, mentally.

>>868383
>I personally think that X is the original Mega Man, repaired after a fatal battle with either Wily or Zero. This stems from when I was a kid, thinking X was just Megaman upgraded.

>I believe shit that makes no logical sense and has been outright invalidated by the creators because I am a fucking dipshit.

>>868385
This isn't a theory, it's obvious.

>>868319
whoa dude

I personally think that X is the original Mega Man, repaired after a fatal battle with either Wily or Zero. This is why Light calls X his greatest creation in the intro to X1, because he expressed more love for his robot kids and X wasn't active before waking up.

>>868392
Holy shit. Never saw it that way.

>>868394
Heh...who else?

>>868395

>>868395
I always held that belief too, or at least that X is built from the same base personality/programming as Rock.

>>868523
This is what I believe. Also why no Roll X?

>>868535
Because your belief is not canon to what the developers intended?

>>868535
>what is alia
>what is ciel

>>868539
They're reploids they're built from X's data.

>>868546
Ciel's a genetically-enhanced human. The only human smart enough to make a perfect copy of X's DNA.

>>868535
>no Roll X
There are no kitchen in the future.

Less theory and more extrapolation, Megaman Legends is the 'far future' of ZX, after the combination of Repliroids and Humans has resulted in the Carbons, and the world has finally recovered from the Irregular Wars and Elf Wars.

>>868542
Nah, that Mega Man was a template for X.
>>868567 I'm sure the future needs vacuuming

>>868580
>vacuuming
We got AirMan for that.

>>868591

Airman? But he blows...

>>868594
Dustman?

>>868594
Dustman sucks even more th--oh god I'm so sorry.

>>868594
>>868598
PUNS

ARE

NOT

FUNNY

>>868594
>>868598
>>868601
Okay that does it. Axl will do the vacuum.

>>868603
You need to Chillman.

>>868610
PUNS ARE NOT FUNNY CUNT

>>868614
You seem like you should go out and get some Airman.

>>868614

Posting like that? Trying to ruin everyone's fun? It takes a lot of guts, man.

>>868632
He's not very bright man. He's trying to be a Punk.

>>868645
Guys, I think you will only make him Enker.

>>868658
Will he be going on as a Duo?

>>868663
Maybe he can join my band; we could use a Bass.

>>868614

There is no need to be such a blow-hard. Let's just clear the air here. If we can't air our thoughts about old games without having the wind taken out of our sails, this place will really suck.

Go blow yourself.

>>868678
He probably doesn't have a Beat.

>>868610
Had to make this.

>>868678
Yeah, you really might need a Pro To Man the lights as well.

>>868383
I believe that Protoman was a Reploid. In the same way that X and Zero are Reploids, being that they aren't, Reploids are copies of X made by Dr. Cain

>>868775
No. I hate that 'theory'.

>"OMG they look similar! CONSPIRACY"

>>868775
>>868817
I don't get what it's supposed to be.

>>868828
It's saying that venonat was originally supposed to evolve into butterfree because hurr they look similar, and metapod was originally meant to evolve into venomoth because why not.

It's probably my most hated of all the pokemon fan-theories.

>>868797
Also, Dr. Light and Dr. Wily were the first Cyber Elves, the Dr. Light capsules containing Light's mind, and the Sigma Virus being Dr. Wily's mind. By X8, Wily had become Dr. Weil, which is why Sigma was actually killed for good.

I believe Kid is not Schala incarnate, [sppiler]and is in fact just a physical clone, with an otherwise separate identity and personality.

>>868846
You mean your most hated isn't Gary's Raticate?

>>868681
>>868663
>>868663
>>868645
>>868632
>>868614
>>868610
>>868603
>>868594
>>868591
>>868580
>>868567
>>868523
>>868395
>>868395
OH GOD! KEEP THIS SHIT FUCKING GOING!!

I think it's more of a bloodline thing, like his greatX100 grandfather. The royal line of Gaurdia has ancestry all the way back to Ayla. It's not hard to believe that Crono also has influential ancestors dating back to at least the Dark Ages.

>>868846
>It's probably my most hated of all the pokemon fan-theories.

Why? It's the most rational one.

Remember when X was sealed all those years while his systems were being tested? In his capsule, the one testing him was Mega Man. After the events of MM7 when MM almost surpassed his potential as a robot and was about to kill Wily, Dr. Light saw the potential to create something beyond; a machine that behaved like a man. Of course, this was much harder, and more dangerous work than simply building a robot, he had to make sure his mind was sound since he would stand above man and machine alike. Mega Man's mind was digitized and put in X's capsule, creating a bunch of scenarios to see how X would react, showing him the outside world, teaching him everything he knew about humanity and right from wrong. It's why X never gives up in his quest to bring peace to the world but also isn't afraid to take a life, he was raised and trained by the ultimate peace keeper

>What if I don't want to fight for humanity, what if they don't deserve to be fought for
>Then you can choose to not fight, you can do whatever you want. Just... no matter what choices you make, just remember and as yourself: why did my father put a gun in my hand but want me to be peaceful

>>868271
Just a theory, and one of the many possible copouts they will use on the upcoming [game not /vr/]

>>868224
I just see Schala being the entity because she is absorbed by Lavos, who is an omnipotent being. So she herself also becomes omnipotent. She also has strong magic powers, so she could probably create time warps at will.

Plus Magus goes looking for her for the rest of his life and presumably never finds her.

The idea of planet Earth creating time warps is just kinda silly to me for some reason.

>>869001
>Omnipotent being
>Killed by a teenager with a sword and his friends
Lavos doesn't even fall under the category of a god

>>868817
lol you must be blind. or you dont know shit about design

>>869007
Of course not. It's a parasite.

>>869007
Gods in vidya are all pathetically weak

>>868841
Weil isn't wily though. He's a corrupt Human who caused the Elf Wars, and was later shoved into a cybernetic body and exiled to space.

>>869037
in the 100 odd years between X5 and the Elf Wars, it's very likely that Wily could've found a way to possess humans as well as Reploids, after all, that's part of what the model W does.

I think Final Fantasy IV would have had a greater impact if Zeromus was Cecil's father.
Hear me out. Cecil's father, Kluya, came to explore the world and fell in love with an earth woman. He didn't quite trust the human race, but remained on earth, had a Cecil and Theodor. Then tension in the little village kept rising and Kluya begun having quite the mood swings and acts of violence. Accidentally hitting his wife, starting fights at the bar, etc. His darker side even starts to whisper and demean Theodor for his lack of developing magic skills. The darker side of Kluya causes his pregnant wife, Cecilia, to run away from him.
In a fit of rage Kluya goes on a rampage to find his wife. Cecilia has her child and Kluya draws close. She tells Theodor to take the new born Cecil and hide.
Kluya finds Cecilia and the villagers hot on Kluya's path burn the house down. Kluya survives, his wife dies and he blames the humans for the death of his wife and returns to the Blue Moon full of rage and tells Fusoya that the Lunarians should invade the world and cleans it of the humans. Sensing the power and hate in Kluya, Fusoya seals him deep in the Blue Moon for years and the hate inside of him builds and morphs him into the ugly creature known as Zeromus. He starts to control his child Theodor (who failed to try to revive Cecilia while Kluya was killing the villagers) to kill his new born son because Cecil reminds him so much of Cecilia.
Rest of the game continues are per usual.

I've played Chrono Trigger multiple times

Earth is the entity

Rinoa = Ultimecia

>Ctrl+F "earthbound"
>nothing
Really? No Gygas theories?

>>868603

>>Well, if it isn't buzzkillman

>>869697
No Crono, you are the entity.

And then, Crono was a zombie.

>>869713

Flat out stated to be false multiple times by the creators of the game.

>>868775
lol how did i never notice that?

>>867841
Barney and some of the scientists thought it would be funny to prank Gordon by slipping some acid into his suit's medical chem packs. Instead he went on a rampage killing most of black mesa staff and requiring the military to take action.

>>868390
At least you're honest.

>>869745
What's Earthbound?

>>870137
it's one of the prequels to smash bros

>>867796
This is how it happened.

>>868775
how could they fuck it up?

>>869013
See >>870701 , also don't 'lol' me.

If they DID fuck it up in Green, why carry it over to R/B? And further still, if they fucked it up in the GAME, why does all related media say that Venonat -> venomoth?

>>871338
How the fuck can you deny pic related? As if it wasnt enough the colored versions match too. you dont know how to draw do you?

If they DID fuck it up in Green, why carry it over to R/B? And further still, if they fucked it up in the GAME, why does all related media say that Venonat -> venomoth?
from that point they just rolled with it. the game became too popular to alter something this major.

>>869675

Star Wars all over again.

>>869808
Crono was kill ;___;

>>871574
Butterflies don't work like that you moron. Look into the actual origin of the Pokemon's concept and you'll realize just how stupid you're being.

>>871779
Moths don't work that way either
What's your point

>>871779
Neither do moths, jackass. Point?

>>871779
plis be trolling

>>871779

>butterflies don't work like that
>pokemon
>butterflies don't work like that
>pokemon
>butterflies don't work like that
>pokemon

You know what else doesn't work like it does in Pokemon? Evolution.

>>871779
top lel. venomoth's japanese name is morphon (from morpho, a butterfly genus)

>>871574
>fluffy purple body
>giant red compound eyes
>same hand, feet, mouth and antenna
yep, i dont even know how i never noticed this before

>>871845
Because they're both shitty, irrelevant, scrubmons.

>>871854
Butterfree is the man if you pick Charmander and probably the best way to get through Brock's Gym along with Mankey

>>871854

>Venemoth
>Bad

Where do you live, faggot? I'll kick your nerd ass.

>>871779
"i cant get over the fact that gamefreak fucked up, because that would be the first time? r-right?"

>>868385
I never realized this, but my emotions did.

>>871859
I had Blue when I was a kid (so no Mankey) and I picked Charmander first. I'm pretty sure I just grinded out Charmander a few a levels to where STAB didn't mean shit. But yeah, that's like his only claim to fame, they're otherwise shit in the grand scheme of things.

>>871863
us of a 1v1 me nerd

>>871574
i always felt like venonat's concept of radar like eyes was super cool so i was disapointed when the evolution didnt follow up the idea. guess this explains it

>>871881

I hope you brought your link cable and babby's butt balm, 'cause Imma tear that ass up.

>>871829
>venomoth's japanese name
next thing you're gonna tell me charmander isnt named charmander in japan

;_;

>>871779
You obviously don't realize that in this theory the concept is changed to reflect reality. The initital design was good but didn't make sense. They probably made they change after they did weedle/kakuna/beedrill and needed a companion for the other color

>>871902
because it makes so much sense now for that purple furry ball to evolve into venomoth

offtopic but here's the original beta weedle family

>>869001
> just see Schala being the entity because she is absorbed by Lavos, who is an omnipotent being
> Lavos
> Omnipotent being

Do you have any idea what "omnipotent" exactly means? Retard.

>>871913
>mfw they reused that concept for ledian

>>871898
hitokage it's its real name

>>868383
>I refuse to believe what the creator said, so I'll make up shit.

That's not a theory; that's fanfiction. They continuosly drop hints that Zero and X were in development while original Megaman was still active. The Complete Works games have a reference of Dr. Light talking about that how he wishes that the Robot Masters could have had a choice in their lives and wants to work on giving them that ability. Also, at the end of Power Battler, Wily tells Bass not to even try anymore because he's working on something much better; cue Zero's silhouette in a tube.
How do you feel about that fact that X was suppose to be the bad guy in the Zero series, but Capcom forced them to come up with Copy X instead?

>>871574
Yes, yes. Of course.
They made the original Blue because R/G was unpopular because of how shitty the graphics were.They would have fixed it then, since no one would have really noticed or cared. It seems a bit TOO stupid to believe that Game Freak and Creatures would have not noticed something like them putting the wrong pokemon design with the wrong pokemon evolutionary tree.

This is the same as the "Cubone WAS TOTALLY pre-evolved Kangaskhan, and Marowak was the male Kangaskhan, but they messed up the Pokedex order. They then had to change the in game text, because the Marowak in Pokemon Tower was the dad and Giovanni's Kangaskhan is the cubone's mother, since that was the plan!"

>>868494
>rock
>first son

poor blues

>>869745
The Gygas in Earthbound is Gygas before Ninten's grandmother could give him love.

End of story.

>>871913
>A grub turns into an imago which turns into a beetle
That makes sense. Much like how grubs turn into a pupa which turns into a bee.

Venonat-Venomoth is actually a valid evolution, because there are fuzzy gnats and things called mothflies, both of which are in the Diptera family of insects. Venonat is a fuzzy mothfly maggot that evolves into a big ass mothfly.

>>872186
>They made the original Blue because R/G was unpopular because of how shitty the graphics were
holy shit you know even less about pokemon than you seem. Red and Green were pretty much an instant success. Games that fail dont get to have a special version rerelease. Those that you can milk and cash in on do.

I'm not sure if either your nostalgia googles prevent you from seeing the obvious or the opposite where you cant accept that you're new pokemon games are built upon a design mistake.

>>872226
I don't really think it was a design mistake so much as it was 'Hey, you know what? let's switch them around. Why? who the fuck cares, let's switch them around'

>>872218
dont let the english names fool you venonat isnt in anyway based on a gnat. its japanese name is kongpang wich roughly translates into radar bug.
and venomoth's design has as much of a moth as butterfree

>>872230
yeah that's totally valid as long as you aknowledge that they were clearly designed to be the other way around

>>872251
Well duh, it's fucking obvious

>>872186
lol dude i dont even like pokemon (only game i played was ruby) but how can you argue against pic related >>871574. there must be something wrong with your visual perception

>>872226
Blue wasn't really a special version re-release. It was a mail in promotion from Coro-Coro Comics. People actually did complain about the graphics and the rerelease fixed some of the crazier glitches in Red/Green.

There were plenty of design mistakes in Red/Green/Blue that only completely got fixed in Yellow. It doesn't completely make much since that two re-does and the knowledge of the creation of several popular manga wouldn't be enough for them to change what's suppose to be such and obvious and glaring mistake.

>>872253
aparently not to this guy >>872186

>>872242
Aren't flies know for having a radar sense that makes them hard to hit?

Also, couldn't the Morph in Morphon refer to the fact that that it morphed into something completely different?

>>872267
>People actually did complain about the graphics and the rerelease fixed some of the crazier glitches in Red/Green.
doesnt change the fact that the originals sold like hotcakes

>It doesn't completely make much since that two re-does and the knowledge of the creation of several popular manga wouldn't be enough for them to change what's suppose to be such and obvious and glaring mistake.
as i said, they decided to just roll with it. that or >>872230

>>872286
i dont see where you're going with this. all that is being said about venomoth can be applied to butterfree. from a biological perspective caterpie > metapod > butterfree and caterpie > metapod > venomoth both make sense and neither venonat > venomoth and venonat > butterfree do.

in terms of purely aesthetic design, caterpie > metapod > venomoth and venonat > butterfree makes much more sense than the other way around

>>872265
The guy whose saying that it's really retarded that such an obvious mistake was never changed when the developers could have easily changed it?

I get what he's saying: If its SO horrifically noticeable, why didn't they change it to what it's suppose to be way back in the series' early days?

R/G came out Feb 27, 1996. Pokemon Special came out somewhere in the middle of 1996, since the first tokaban came out on August 6th 1996. That would have been the first time that they could have changed it (but then again, Red catches a scrub brush thing that's never been a Pokemon anyway).
Blue debuted in October 10th of 1996. 8 months to change it. The anime didn't come out until April of 1997. Over a year to change it, as Caterpie and it's evolution family is so important to the series' beginnings.

All this adds up to is that Pokemon is a shit game series made by a buch of hacks if it can't change something this glaringly wrong given all the time that they could have done it in

>>872296
I wasn't disagreeing with the popularity thing. I was just pointing out that Blue wasn't a released because of popularity; it was release essentially as a bug patch. Yellow was the one that was released because of popularity.

"Switch it around just cuz" doesn't really make sense either. Why not do that with some of the other Pokemon. I know >>872186 was just joking, but why not have switched Cubone/Marowak around like that, too?

>>872347
>but why not have switched Cubone/Marowak around like that, too?
that whole thing(assuming it's true, the evidence isnt not nearly has glaring has the venomoth/butterfree issue) has a lot more implications than simply switching two butterflies around

>>871574
>>871829
>>871874
>>872226
>>872262
>>872296
I'm the anon who originally complained about this (>>868817 , >>868846 and >>871338) and my point stands, that your argument boils down to 'They look similar so it must be true!!!!'

As that other anon said, it's just as bad as that kangaskhan/cubone thing.

This is why /vp/ exists.
Holy fucking shit.
I didn't realize something as fucking retarded as "Venomoth is the REAL Butterfree; DEAL WITH IT FAGGOT NOSTALGIA FAGS" was such a big fucking deal to Pokefags.

This was suppose to be a thread about retro theories.

>>872359
okay you have absolutely zero understanding of how design works.

>>872359
baby dont worry despite what these overly logical and rational meanies say it doesnt mean your memories of ash releasing butterfree are a lie

>>872359
lol how delusional can you be

>>872361
Not really, seeing as they had planned to have breeding and the like in the original games but didn't have the time to figure out how to program it all in. Marowak could have easily been the male of the Cubone/Kangaskhan family. Especially if Gamefreak is guilty of rampant "Lets do it just because"

>>872376
So Gengar really IS Clefable's shadow?
Clefairy is really the female Cubone, since they share the same toes?
Gastly really is actually related to Cloyster?

>>872389
im sorry i cant even understand if you're defending that idea or against it.

that whole issue is a lot less clear as its not as simple as stating that marowak is a male kangaskhan.
kangaskhan concept is about being a mother
cubone is a child who laments its mother's dead
marowak represents how it got over that phase and was able to stand on its own

so maybe the original plans was kangaskhan > cubone > marowak but that would make it weird and convuluted to have the mother die during evolution and get a much weaker pokemon so they removed it altogether

>seeing as they had planned to have breeding and the like in the original games but didn't have the time to figure out how to program it all in
/r/ing source btw

>>872405
wow honey you're in some serious denial. no point arguing any further

>>872409
oh gosh this post is gonna make a lot of people angry, prepare to get ridiculed

Monster World happens in the past of the Planet Palma from Phantasy Star, which is also home to the Fantasy Zones from Space Harrier and Fantasy Zone.

>>872376
>>872383
>>872385
Samefag? Seems like it. You're being a douche, this is not /v/, we like to have proper discussion here.

As >>872405 pointed out, there are other pokemon that have the same face, colours, shape etc, that doesn't mean they were originally related but game freak 'fucked up' because they're apparently so incompetent.

>>872370
Sorry man, I started it I guess. Didn't mean for it to consume the whole thread.

>>872405
>comparing this retarded crap that people come up with as trolling with this >>871574
no wonder the pokemon community is garbage

>>872409
>/r/ing source btw
The Pokemon Special episode of GCCX. Also... really? You're asking for a source in an argument where we're arguing something that Game Freak has never commented on, so we have to go off of "American names are lies/You're blind if you can't see that the game devs purposely messed up and never fixed it". If WE'VE noticed, don't you think the even more nitpicky Japanese fans would have bugged (no pun intended) Nintendo about this for ages.

>>868963
nice

>>872442
>Using the shitty R/B/G sprites and not Sugimori's more official than anything else artwork

That's not how this game works.
Gastly is a black ball with a smirk on its face. Cloyster has a black ball with a smirk on its face. They're right next to each other in the Pokedex. Ergo, they HAVE to be related in some way. Clefairy's toes are spikes and so are Cubone's. They're also in the Fairy Egg Group. Clefable in silhouette looks alot like Gengar in silhouette.

>>872443
>and never fixed it
not the one you're replying to but they actually tried to, subtly. you see the original caterpie artwork has it with 6 legs just like venomoth. now they just depict caterpie with 4 legs. furthermore venomoth's original artwork has yellow spots on the back of its wings just like caterpie. now it just has the random scales. they also removed the emphasis on butterfree's compound eyes not to make it as identical as they were to venonat's in the first sprite

>>872468
no you piece of shit the "official" artwork came later and it clearly revised some of the designs. no wonder people think the first sprites suck since they dont understand that they arent based on the "official" artwork

gastly was originally just smoke with a face

>>872492
that's koffing

>>872468
>Gastly is a black ball with a smirk on its face
>ignorant people who dont know shit about the pokemon conception

>>872492
And Blastoise didn't have cannons. Are we suppose to say that they were made up and not was was originally intended as well?

>>872509
That just means that Gastly are actually dead Koffings, then.

>>872516
the point was that the original sprites were not based on the official artwork

>>872509
nope, its confirmed to be gastly

fucking pokefags ruining the thread. yeah guys everyone and their mothers can see how obvious it is that furball and butterfree have matching designs. now move on and fuck off to /vp/

>>872527
>the original sprites were not based on the official artwork

This thread has reached a crescendo of idiocy.
You're telling me that all the original sprites weren't based on the official artwork for the series, but were instead just made up on the fly, as there are only about 10 or so designs from the Capsule Monsters pitch that remotely resemble any official Pokemon (spirte, picture, or otherwise)?

>>872538
The arguement has really been about "Well, why are they switched/Does that really mean that they were switched?"

>>872538
Pokemon has some p cool theories though.
These fags just picked the gayest one to discuss.

>>872545
Mega Man's sprite was made before Keiji Inafune actually drew up the first Mega Man designs, it's not too farfetch'd

In Pokemon R/B/Y Ditto is a failed attempt at creating Mewtwo that's why they can only be captured in the basement of the Pokemon Mansion.

>>872564
Yes thank you anon but we're all subbed to DYKGaming too.

>>872545
>This thread has reached a crescendo of idiocy.
You're telling me that all the original sprites weren't based on the official artwork for the series, but were instead just made up on the fly, as there are only about 10 or so designs from the Capsule Monsters pitch that remotely resemble any official Pokemon (spirte, picture, or otherwise)?
>tfw you're arguing with ignorant people instead of preparing yourself for your final exam in 4 hours.
no they werent made on the fly, just because we dont have access to most of the sketches/concept art doesnt mean it never existed. the things you call official work came much later. see the cards on pic related? there are this for the whole 151 pokemon. it is confirmed that even these were made before the artwork you refer to as official was made.

>>872568
/vp/ was all over that shit was before DYKGaming. then reddit ripped us and dikg ripped reddit

>>872545
>You're telling me that all the original sprites weren't based on the official artwork for the series
oh anon im so sorry the ball of smoke gastly sprite was totally based on pic related and not on >>872492 and similar unseen concept art

now seriously i need to study but i will happily continue this discussion tomorrow if you wish

>>872553
Yeah, but there's a difference between "Inafune drew Mega Man after the sprite was made" and "200 different Pokemon sprites were made, cut down to 150, and only then was the original artwork actually drawn"

>>872602
most of the artwork was made post game due to it's success. during the development they used tiny sketches like these.

>>872609
why do all these "sketches" look like they were printed out from a gameboy camera?

>>872609
But there was still artwork.
This would also mean that we know, officially, that none of the official artwork looks like the in development artwork.

Why then, was Pokemon Blue created, when people complained that the sprites looked nothing like the official artwork? Shouldn't that mean that the official artwork should just look like better versions of the sprites and not something so different that they had to release a version to make them look more like the official art? (Even though Gastly and Koffing got fucked over)

>>872583
A lot of "Videogame theories" come from 4chan. Like a really crazy amount of them.

>>872620
check this thread tomorrow. i need to fight the urge to reply. wish me luck for my finals

>>872576
I have those. They look pretty fucking close to the official artwork, if you ask me.
Also, you're acting as is Sugimori's artwork isn't actually considered official.

>>872629
>Finals
>7th of July
What the hell country are you in?

The stone tower in Zelda Majora's Mask is Termina`s version of the Tower of Babel, among other things.

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/articles/the-message-of-majoras-mask/

Amarant is Eiko's dad.

FF9 did a bunch of throwbacks and references, might as well go all the way.

>>872630
I think he meant that if even promotional cards were confirmed to be made before the official artwork like >>872596, then it means that all this stuff is post game development. Makes sense since they wouldnt have added random shit to the sprites like the stripes on dratini's belly if they were going by the official artwork's reference.

>>872636
portugal

>>872650
this

K c ya tomorrow or something

>>872648
Zelda theories?!
The Link to the Past can NEVER have a game with the Master Sword come afterwards in the timeline because the game text says the the Master Sword was sealed "Never to be used again"

Tetra's children weren't fathered by Link, but someone who was the equivalent of royalty in the aboriginals in the land that New Hyrule was founded on. Why? Because why would the King of Hyrule's adventuring garb be the dress of the Royal Knights and not the King himself? Link was NTR'd into becoming the Leader of New Hyrule's Royal Knighthood.

>>872650
Or, it was hard to jam all that detail onto the sprite.

I do find it hard to believe that the official artwork is solely based on the sprites, but the official artwork is so radically different from the sprites.

>>872664
Things get even MORE confusing when you look at the original sprites. Pokemon should look SO much different than they do now, if there was no real official art to go off of when the sprites were made.

Why was Pokemon so different from every other game in the regards to the development of the sprite work? Even with Megaman, Inafune was brought in to make art so they could have designs to make better sprites from. Most other games have SOME real concept art to go off of. Hell, most RPGs have enough for an artbook by the time the game is ready to come out.

>>872679
>>872664
your english is so atrocious that i cant even grasp what your point is

>>872686
His point is, if the official art is based on the sprites and not the other way around, then why does the official art look so different from the sprites.

His other point is that questioning why Pokemon did the exact opposite of most RPGs: make concept art AFTER the game is made.

>>872686
Guess it's so late, you can't even use "I have Finals" as an excuse as to why you can't refute counter-arguments.

>>872664
>>872679
>dem sprites
Holy shit; how did Pokemon get popular again?
I don't remember every single Pokemon looking so fucking retarded. I guess the show made them look so good that I forgot shit like Pinhead Dragonite, Pig Nidorina, and Reverse Koffing.

>>872698
>His
you meant "My" lol

>His point is, if the official art is based on the sprites and not the other way around, then why does the official art look so different from the sprites.
as it was mentioned before people complained about the game's graphics so they decided to give the pokemon a make over to make them look better

>>872698
>make concept art AFTER the game is made.
there was concept art before, like >>872609
>>872516
>>872492
these >>872630 cards and the official artwork came later because of the game's success, so they could use it for promotional stuff, for the tcg, future games, the anime, etc

>>872706
You're on your way to becoming a real adult, anon.
Once you zoom the lens out more and see that Pokemon is just a shitty kids game, you'll finally be a man.

>>872719
Didn't you argue AGAINST the idea of them making new sprites/art because of the complaints?

>>872609
That's old sprite work that appeared in a magazine in the 90s
>>872516
>>872492
Those are from the Capsule Monsters pitch from 1990. Where is the art that came afterwards that is neither the promo cards, which to my knowledge is the oldest official art (I know you don't like the term, but that's what it's called.) nor Sugimori's art that showed up in the original official guides?

Unless there actually is actual concept art that the sprites were based on that they then hammered out into what's now the official art, I'm forced to believe that they just slapped together sprite art and called it a day.

The longer this goes on, the more I'm convinced that Game Freak had no idea what they were doing when they made this game and were luck that it did as well as it did.

This thead is proof of why Pokemon needs to stay in its own board and that its fans are autistic.

They have literally spent 5 and 1/2 hours arguing over two Pokemon that look like each other and whether or not it means that Nintendo can't make a game worth shit.

>>872749
as someone who doesnt care about pokemon, look at >>868775 and without bias tell us if it doesnt make more sense

>>872757
They look the same, so what? I remembered not giving a shit as a kid about this, too.
Wasn't there a fish that turned into an octopus or something?

Why aren't you mad that Magicarp turned into a Chinese Dragon?

>>872757
not only is the black bug ball the exact same shit as butterfree without wings, caterpie and the ugly butterfly have the head gear. nintendo dun goofd. now gtfo to /vp/

>>872762
>Why aren't you mad that Magicarp turned into a Chinese Dragon?
I hope you're trolling. If not research the myth of the koi fish and the dragon gate.

>>872762
Carp to Dragon is some legend shit. Point on Remoma-to-Octopus tho; shit makes 0 sense outside of 'they stick to shit'.

>>872775
remoraid is a revolver. octillery is a cannon. its based on some japanese toys that splash water

>>872775
So you're telling me, you're fine with "It's not suppose to make sense" but you're upset when someone tells you that when they think Venognat's suppose to be the real caterpie or whatever? Seriously? This is why you all need to fuck off back to /vp/
>>872778
>don't know the original story of all the pokemon
>must be trolling
Jesus fuck dude. Just because I didn't know there's some Japanese legend every Japanese kid knows behind Magicarp doesn't mean I'm trolling. I just thought it was to teach you to train your fucking Pokemon because they can grow up to be badass.

>>872784
They're just squirt guns?
That's stupid.

>>872794
welcome to pokemon past gen1 (inb4 nostalgiafag)

>>872784
Oh, it's like Japan pop-culture, eh? The more you know.

>>872789
I'm not sure what you are trying to say, as before >>872784 pointed out the reference and relevance, I was saying that Remoraid and Octillery was dumb. If you mean Magikarp and Gyrados, then you're wrong; it makes sense because it is inspired by lore. The whole ButterVeno shit is just either accidental or arbitrary, which means it was either a fuckup or a deliberate fuckup; that is a lose-lose situation.

>>872789
>Jesus fuck dude. Just because I didn't know there's some Japanese legend every Japanese kid knows behind Magicarp doesn't mean I'm trolling. I just thought it was to teach you to train your fucking Pokemon because they can grow up to be badass.
fine but as you can see there is more to pokemon then it seems so no need to trash it like its shit

>>872797
Well, according to everyone in this thread, Nintendo's stupid as shit, either because they WILLINGLY fucked up on a Pokemon's evolution or that they ACCIDENTALLY fucked it up and just decided that no one would notice.

>>872784
>>872778
exeggutor?

>>872806
>full of glitches
>mixed up evolutions
>no real concept art
>had to release a new game because people complained about how bad the first release looked

You all have made a good case that the original games WERE shit.

>>872798
You spent half the thread shitting on people for saying "They aren't suppose to be related" and that people "have no clue of how design works" because two of them looked the same and HAD to be related in some way. Yet. It doesn't bother you that a bunch of Pokemon change into shit that they didn't originally look like.

This multihour Pokewank fest needs to be back on fucking /vp/, that way you can chase your tails away from other people's boards.

>>872816
jinmenju, a monster that is a tree with human heads for fruits that are always laughing. it scares people and laughs so hard that the fruit falls and gets angry (exeggcute)

>>872816
A fucking palmtree with coconuts with faces.
Not everything has to have a magic kaiju that it comes from.
I bet you didn't know this, but Charizard's a dragon, and Shellder's a clam.

>>872820
homie i hope by "you" you dont mean "me" i got here 10 minutes ago

>>872825
lel, see >>872819
it's not a kaiju, its a youkai

>>872820
I think you're assuming me to be some kind of samefag throughout this conversation; I am not. I am >>872775 and >>872798 . I haven't been shitting on anyone, so maybe take a step back and breathe, okay?

>>872825
DYKgaming get!

>>868853
I only recently found out the Gary's raticate theory was BS.

I was kinda disappointed by that revelation, because I reallly liked the story the original theorizer spun.

>>872831
>>872828
Then i apologize, but I assumed that the only person left was the "Portugese" guy who was running the show with the whole "lol you can't see the truth because of nostalgia" shit.

Only semi retro but I reckon it still counts.
Dissidia is completely canon to FF1 and takes place just before the timeline begins again. The "Warrior of Light" meets the other 3 on the way to Cornelia in a light hearted pre-adventure that takes place exclusively in my head as I'm naming the characters.

>>872819
japan in charge of retarded lore

>>872836
>I only recently found out the Gary's raticate theory was BS.
so where and what did you found out?

>>872854
Gary never says "do you know what it's like to have a pokemon die" or something like that, but the copypasta claims he does say that. The whole of the copypasta author's work relies on that point being true, but it's not. He never says anything like that.

>>872861
he says something like: "why are you here? none of your pokemon are dead" not trying to push shit but the implication is still sorta there

>>872861
Yeah. He says something more along the lines of "Your Pokemon don't look dead. May as well beat the shit outta em"

>>872861
90% of every individual copypasta is complete bollox. At least 90% and I'm only talking about the ones that are coherently written.

>>872869
You mean bollocks?

>>872880
I've never in my life seen it spelled like that.

>>872863
>>872864
"What brings you here? your pokemon dont look dead. i can at least make them faint!"
that's the correct line

>>872885
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bollocks
I've never in my life seen it spelled with an "x".

>>872904
>>872904
That's mad. Crazy world isn't it?

from pokeautism to grammarnazism

>>872908
Welcome to the world of English being TOO flexible.

>>872819
that's the dumbest tail i've ever heard

>>872885
>I've never seen it spelled that way in my life
>who are the Sex Pistols?

>>867796
Hey, a retro theories thread? Might be co...
>Megaman X fanfiction
>Hours long debate on the stupid Venonat/Butterfree thing

I hate to say it, but I REALLY despise fandoms.

>>872706
The uglier it appears, the more you use your imagination to make it look cooler and better.

Also, the cards were the bigger driving factor in its popularity in the early years, in both the US and Japan.

your thoughts on link's awakening ending ? any theories?

>>873327
The Triforce saved him. Now that it's canon that the Oracle games happened directly after LttP and we know that LA happened after LttP, it's pretty safe to say that the Triforce knew it was time to bring him back home.

He needed to save one last soul.

>>873362
there even is a tiny wink at the end of oracle games if you finish both of them using linked game - you see link sailing away on a boat, and that's exactly how links awakening starts.

But my question is... Whose dream was it. Clearly there are a lot of elements of links subconsciousness (like one of the nightmares having the form of Link, Marin looking like Zelda etc). But the game claims it was the dream of the Windfish. So Link wakes up from his dream, and... he sees the windfish... and then (if you didn't die even once) you see Marin as a seagull. So... Was that a dream or not?

Notice how you, by waking up the windfish have destroyed the whole island. The nightmares which play the role of bad guys here, did nothing wrong. They only wanted to make the windfish sleep forever, thus keeping the island alive.
You kill all the people there and happily sail away. I kinda find that selfish. But then again i might be over-thinking i.t

>>873296
>Hours long debate on the stupid Venonat/Butterfree thing
as a non pokefag it was interesting to read the stuff about the early design of the games

Dad was totally boning Lynn's mom. Probably even does it with the mask on, the freak.

>>873275
A really fuck awful band

>>871574
i know im really late to the party but i cant believe that throughout all this years i never noticed this

>>874389
Yeah, whether it was a mistake or whatever seeing it now is kind of a mindfuck.

>>871574
>pokemon
>evolution
>realism

>>871574
>tfw your childhood is a lie

>>872485
>venomoth's original artwork has yellow spots on the back of its wings just like caterpie
this is bullshit. stop trying to push fan wankery as truth

>>874917
bitch please

>>868775
you know what? at first I thought it was a ridiculous statement but now im starting to see it

they probably just switched the pokemanz as an afterthought and didn't think anyone would throw a shitfit

>>876315
>well 4chan didnt exist in 1998

>>876315
Yeah, I always thought they made Butterfrees more common because they are cuter and prettier.

Is it really awful if they just made a simple mistake?

I mean, things like that are why Gandhi favors nukes in the Civ series. It's fun. Adds a little texture to a series.

>>876459
>bad design
>texture

i see where you're coming from but no

>>876508
Not so much bad design as it is a small error in the face of metric shit loads of content.
So what that they may have confused the two? It doesn't really detract from the game.

Do you think it would have had the same impact if ash released a disgusting venomoth?

>>876624
yes. in the anime even a magnemite can have emotion

>>876547
>It doesn't really detract from the game.
to you

>>876624
>caring about the anime

Not that anyone cares but in Dark Savior the whole thing is an endless nightmare of carbon Garian.

>>874917
>>874949
Well, it's not like that fucking matters.
According to the dickheads in this thread, that picture doesn't count because it was made WAY after the games were completely finished. In fact, if I'm reading this thread correctly, they just made shit up for drawings like that, since, apparently, it would take only Americans 10 years to figure out that two Pokemon look alike.

>>873392
Link's subconcious was trapped in the Wind Fish's dream, as he was passed out. Link probably came "ashore" on the back of the wind Fish, who then had Link figue out how to wake him.
The Wind Fish, as a god, was being trapped in place by the Shadow Nightmare. If anything, the island was a way to guilt trip the Wind fish into never waking up.

>>879267
>two Pokemon look alike
it's not a question of just looking alike. weedle and caterpie look alike. pidgey and spearow look alike. VENONAT AND BUTTERFREE ARE IDENTICAL. BUTTERFREE IS A VENONAT WITH WINGS

>>877815
>>It doesn't really detract from the game.
>to you
Does it really bother you that much that 2 of 650+ pokemon may have been accidentally switched and they just went with it?

>>879331
>Does it really bother you that much
yes. but there are far worse issues with the games that im able to forgive so i can live with it.

>650+ pokemon
151*

no, im not a nostalgiafag (first game was gold)

>>868385
>All seven sages in Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time are dead by the time you beat the temple they represent.
>All seven sages
>All seven

Ah! But you only named six. Zelda was just fine!

>>879375
But 2/151 still insignificant and easily overlooked by anyone not obsessed.

How does it even damage the game?

>>879441
different people value different things. to each their own

>>879297
And Plusle/Minun are Pichu with the wrong colours and different tails.
Big fucking whoop.
How may Pokemon in Gen 1 have circles/near circles for bodies and heads?
Put a skull on a Sandshrew and it looks like a tattooed Cubone.
The point is WHO CARES.
Butterfree is Venonat with wings. Big deal. People aren't getting mad over them looking the same. People are getting made that others are claiming that Venonat was TOTALLY suppose to evolve into Butterfree because... they look the same. And say it with the conviction of "The creators came to my house and told me this personally".
And yet, when someone poses queries like "Well, does that mean that Gastly was originally suppose to be Cloyster without it's shell? Is (a) suppose to be related to (b) because they share the same body type?", the answer is a solid "You're stupid. Why would THEY be related?"

It'sQuizboy vs. St. Cloud. A bunch of nobodies trying to out-trivia each other.

>>879443
Fair enough I suppose.

>>879448
But there were seven Sages. Who was the seventh if it wasn't Zelda?

>>879429
>You're now realizing that she stayed alive so the other sages could Kamehameha Ganon into the Sacred Realm.

Zelda wasn't a Sage; she was just their weapon. Like Link.

>>879451
It was you, the player. The one who gave Link the power to save the world. Your gift was for Link to be able to act

>>879453
deeeeeeeeeep

This thread is still up and STILL arguing about Pokemon?

>>879459
/vr/ is a slow place. You can leave for hours then come back to continue a conversation.

>>879456
If you take this officially licensed song from the 80s seriously, that's the whole POINT of the Legend of Zelda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhdCV8elmbE

"He can do these things... only with YOUR help"
YOU are the saviour of Hyrule. Link is just that. A Link from our world to Hyrule. He's nothing more than an avatar. A holy vessel.

>>879463
>Hours
This thread was started 5 days ago.

>>879474
Or days, who gives a fuck.
Point is, you can carry on and come back at your pleasure to talk about whatever.

>>879445
>Well, does that mean that Gastly was originally suppose to be Cloyster without it's shell?
that point was already tackled in this thread. gastly as a black ball is a later concept. the original gastly was just smoke with a face.

>>879529
That then brings up question of why isn't Ghasty STILL just a cloud of smoke?
If this is some inalienible fact that Gastly has always been meant to be a cloud of smoke, why did that stop? I can SORT OF buy the "They forgot to switch Venonat back" thing, but if Gastly was very obviously suppose to look like something else, why did the art work never reflect thing? And I mean the game manual/strategy guide art, since (once again, according to people in this thread) doesn't actually count as the official art.

>>879546
>That then brings up question of why isn't Ghasty STILL just a cloud of smoke?
Due to the success of the game they got to create the "official art" for all the pokemon, and probably since people complained about the original graphics, they used it as a chance to redesign and perfect them.
Dratini lost its stripes. pikachu lost its belly. vaporeon anatomy changed completly. etc etc. Pretty much all pokemon got a design makeover at that point.

>>879529
Well then, what about the other things? Like the Cubone looking like it could be related to half the Pokemon in the fairy egg group? Way Tangela suppose to be Shellder covered in seaweed? Is the Gengar/Clefable thing true? Is Weedle really suppose to evolve into Pincer/Heracross, since there was concept art where he turns into a Beetle?

>>879556
The problem with that is that the "official art" (are we really talking as if Sugimori's art is fake?) was on the original boxes and flyers for Red and Green.
And that Gastly and Vaporeon didn't actually look like Sugimori's art until Yellow.

IM BACK BITCHES. FUCK YEAH SUMMER

>>879557
lol dude really?

>>879559
>Yellow Sprites
>>872664
>>872679
>Red/Blue Sprites
>Green Sprites

True dat. Even IF the official was, for whatever reason, not made for years after Pokemon came out, Gastly stayed smoke until Yellow came out. Which came out far enough into the anime's life time that Ash was fighting Blaine in the show a month after Yellow came out.

What the hell are you people even arguing about at this point?

>>879575
>Fairy egg group
>showed up in Gen II
>using sprites from Gen I

When are going to make a game mod to make the first gen games a copy of Capsule Monsters?

But what say you on this whole line of argument? That there are now Pokemon that look exactly like other Pokemon, but no one makes as big a deal about it as with the Venonat/Butterfree situation? And about that there is no official art for Pokemon? And the one major accusation that Venonat IS baby Butterfree being confirmed by Nintendo fact or just people claiming that it's that way?

>>879559
>(are we really talking as if Sugimori's art is fake?)
nah it's real. just doesnt match the original designs.

You can check this link for the official art of the 151 that i said was made after the game. http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Category:Ken_Sugimori_Pok%C3%A9mon_artwork
None of it is on the red and green stuff as it was confirmed that they were made after the bandai cards(and they wouldnt make promotional cards if the game didnt succeed)

What you get on the red and green isnt much besides the starters and even thought they already match the later redesigns, things like box art is made really late in the game development. the sprites were obviously done before that point.

>>879587
I..
...
I think they're arguing over if all of the art from the manuals and strategy guides are fake?
I think they're saying this art came out after the show or something.

>>879598
Are you sure?
I could have sworn that somewhere earlier in this thread, when someone asked where they got the official art from, someone said that it was all made up and doesn't actually count as being "official art"; just promo art that's to be ignored.

In the idea of them being the canon way Pokemon are suppose to look, I think we're saying that Sugimori's art is fake. Primarily because gastly is smoke in the games, but a ball in the art.

So, have we finally agreed that Gen 1 was shit?
I think that's what all this arguing was suppose to be proving: That Game Freak can't program for shit, mix and match sprites, never actually had real concept sketches to go by, and all the stuff that we thought was official designs are actually fake.

>>879593
>That there are now Pokemon that look exactly like other Pokemon, but no one makes as big a deal about it as with the Venonat/Butterfree situation?
I dont give a fuck about the new games that's why i'm not discussing none of its issues.

>And about that there is no official art for Pokemon?
Lol it is official. It just doesnt match the the designs present in red and green because most of it was done later. Art like >>872492
it's much more truthful to the spirit of the first game.

>And the one major accusation that Venonat IS baby Butterfree being confirmed by Nintendo fact or just people claiming that it's that way?
It is not confirmed by nintendo. But if you, ignore the nostalgia and accept that gamefreak can make mistakes, you can tell throught common sense that they were intended to be related. wether the change was done or purpose or not we dont know.

>>879605
It's not about being made up or fake or canon. It's about not matching the sprites of the game. All that art was a redesign make over of the sprites and not the other way around.
The art that had any influence on the sprites is stuff like >>872609 >>872492 >>872516

I think the vast majority of Pokemon fan-theories are bullshit and even I think the Venonat-Butterfree thing is very likely to be true. They look very identical.

Also to add something to the official art argument: Red/Green had a very hectic development and Gamefreak almost hit bankruptcy several times during development. To save money, I can see them only making very rough sketches for concept art and then make sprites based off that.

>>879609
>So, have we finally agreed that Gen 1 was shit?
no

>That Game Freak can't program for shit, mix and match sprites
it was a work of love made by ten people. mistakes happen the heart of the concept it's still there

>never actually had real concept sketches to go by
>>872609
>>872516
>>872492
etc etc

>and all the stuff that we thought was official designs are actually fake.
not fake, just revised and not entirely truthfull to the original red and green

>>879627
good to know that there is still reasonable people around

>>879616
>>879627
>>879630
Then the question now is, why ISN'T the (and we've finally agreed that it is) official art the same as the sprites?

Near bankruptcy and the like are no excuse for shoddy workmanship. The project, if I remember correctly, was started in 1989, since the Capsule Monsters pitch (which we seem to believe is the only source of concept art) was submitted in 1990.

That's 6 years to iron stuff out, plus the two rereleases.

If nostalgia is not a factor in our judgement of Gen I, I have to say that Game Freak was lucky that such a shoddy project was able to do so well.

>Then the question now is, why ISN'T the (and we've finally agreed that it is) official art the same as the sprites?

>Due to the success of the game they got to create the "official art" for all the pokemon, and probably since people complained about the original graphics, they used it as a chance to redesign and perfect them.
>not fake, just revised and not entirely truthfull to the original red and green
>It just doesnt match the the designs present in red and green because most of it was done later

>>879648
I dont mind any of that at all. Tiny sketches are decent enough to make simple spritework. Unlike most people i like the original sprites, in fact i prefer it.

>>879648
>Then the question now is, why ISN'T the (and we've finally agreed that it is) official art the same as the sprites?

The biggest criticism of Red/Green was the poor art, so I can kind of see why they were unwilling to directly base the official art off the sprites.

>Near bankruptcy and the like are no excuse for shoddy workmanship. The project, if I remember correctly, was started in 1989, since the Capsule Monsters pitch (which we seem to believe is the only source of concept art) was submitted in 1990. That's 6 years to iron stuff out, plus the two rereleases.

All the time in the world doesn't alter a limited budget. In fact, the long development probably actually made things worse. Longer development means more pressure by the publisher to show some results.

>>879652
1) This assumes that there was literally not art for Pokemon until AFTER the games became popular. No art on the box, nor in the manual. And if there WAS, we'restating that said art is on,y the Capsule Monsters pitch art.
2 & 3) This assumes that Sugimori could not look at the spritework and create official art based upon that, which suggests severe ineptitude.

These statements do not answer my question at all: why isn't the official art 100% faithful to the spritework? One would think that, even in the months it took them to create Blue; the version that was suppose to fix the sprite's aesthetically, they would have the sprites right there to create faithful official artwork of.

>>879664
>1)
There was SOME art in the sugimori style, mainly of the starters. But it was created late enough in the development that it did not influence the sprites.
>2 & 3)
it's not ineptitude. sugimori was also the one who made >>872492 etc. They made a conscious decision to revise the look of the creatures. They thought they were "improving" them.

>why isn't the official art 100% faithful to the spritework?
because it was revisioned? reimagining old stuff in a different way happens all the time in games (pic related)

Im going out for a few hours but we can keep discussing it later if there is still interest.

>>879703
forgot pic

>>879627
It cant even be a theory if its blatantly stated in the game that its false.

>>879703
Once again, we're acting like Sugimori's art came out years later. As an anon pointed out, Pokemon Special (THE Pokemon manga) came out in mid 1996. However, there's 14 chapters in the first volume. If the the first volume came out in early August, and the chapters came out weekly, that means that the very latest the manga could have debuted was early May.
Many of the Pokemon in Pokemon Special look more like the Sugimori art than the sprites. This means his art was around at least a month or two after the games came out.

I can believe that his art wasn't the original concept art, but I refuse to believe that it wasn't made until after the release of Pokemon Blue. Even in Blue, the main culprit of our saying that Sugimori's art is a mass reinvisioning of Pokemon, Gastly's sprite is still the cloud with a face.

>>880375
That's what I've been getting at that people keep side stepping: why didn't they fix it? It's not like there wasn't a testing period. Its not like they didn't have other sprites to swap out Venonat with, since they had designed more than the 150. It would be as simple as changing two image files. That's it. Hell, Mew was added in AFTER they finished bug testing it. It's a glaring mistake, so why didn't they fix it before release? Its not like other things haven't be radically changed with subsiquent revisions to games.

Pokemon Special came out in April 1996 (it was in the May 1996 issue, but due to how Japan does its magazines, the actual date would have been early April 1996). Pokemon Special uses Sugimori's designs, which means that by that time, they already existed. Considering that Pokemon R/G didn't come out until February 1996, that leaves only a two-month window for fan reaction to come about and Gamefreak to create official art for all 151 Pokemon, and then send said designs to Mato to incorporate into the manga. Typically, companies don't react that fast to fan response, making the claim that these designs came about due to fan reaction rather dubious.

In addition, there's other indicators that the art was already in the process of being "officalized" before the games were even released

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak9ilZEYOMs - Early on in the video, you can see him flip through the manual, and you can see some of Sugimori's art.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I52p3gmVL3Y - Here's some more.

Now, on to the Venonat-Butterfree thing. There can only be two reasons why the switch occured: development error, or intentional decision. Neither make any sense. Error is a poor explanation, as Blue was a bugfix of R/B, so why didn't they correct the switch as well? They had no problem with redesigning a bunch of Pokemon, so what's an evolution switch going to matter? So it must be an intentional decision then, right? But that doesn't make sense either. Due to the very limited resources of the staff, they most likely had all the Pokemon concepts finished first before they began programming their art into the game. They would have already figured out who evolves into what before they start putting it into the game, so them programming their sprites in the game and then suddenly going "nah fuck that" and switching it doesn't seem to work either.

Pokemon takes place in a world where humans have effectively become immortal, or at least the original Red and Blue versions do.

There are no hospitals for humans, only pokemon. There are no graveyards or cemeteries except for pokemon. There also appear to be weapons of no kind besides pokemon; even Team Rocket, the mafia, the criminal element, have no guns or really weapons of any kind except Pokemon. Almost as if they were useless. And if you are defeated by a Team Rocket goon, who in practice would probably have no problem killing you, you just "Black out" and wind up back at the Pokemon center.

Death does not exist in the Pokemon world for humans, although it is uncertain how long this has been the case. Lt. Surge talks about fighting in the war where his electric Pokemon saved his life. Likewise, Red's father is not around, and there was already a theory he might have died in that same war. To me, though, Pokemon is a game about ageless, invincible immortals who force lesser evolved beings to fight for their entertainment, because their lives are so stagnant and fixed as to have no other pleasures.

>>880617
Or the death of humans serves no purpose in a lighthearted game for children, and mentally immature teens and adults who played as kids have internally corrupted the game with their ever-present need for XTREAM AND EDGY.

>>880635
Probably the case! Nonetheless, it was a dumb theory I came up with that made me and my friends chuckle at how pointless it was, which I assumed is what OP was asking for.

If we're finally off the Venonat thing, I've got a Pokémon theory.

None of the missing Poke Fathers are missing or dead. Since this is a Japanese game, its far more likely that your dad is actually a Salaryman and is just at work in another town. You never see him because he's at work during the day and school's out.

In Earthbound, though, yeah; Ness' parents are probably divorced, since its suppose to be taking place in proxy America.

>>880617
The guy at the gyms who gives you tips is your father.

>>882213
I believe the old "Ness's dad is Ninten, mother is Ana, Earthbound takes place directly after Mother". But in Itoi's on words, "Its whatever the player wants it to be."