/vr/ - Retro Games

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no they aren't even in love, please play some non-nintendo games

>>8735084
>no they aren't even in love
Zelda's facial expression when she grabs Link's hand before sending him off to the past suggest otherwise.
Likewise, Link returning to meet Zelda in the past also suggest otherwise.

no
but this is

No, this is.

Chrono Cross?

>>8735082
No, Marin is Link’s true love in this one

>>8735082
Any platonic relationship can be interpreted as a melancholic love story, I guess. That's probably a deeper observation than intended but it's still about kiddie pool deep so don't pat yourself on the back for it.

>>8735082
Its not even a love story you retard.

>>8735090
Your prose suggests that you are a fucking retard.

>had a platonic non shared love
>just found her porn double and fap to her afterwards everytime we had a chat
Checkmate whore.

>>8735082
Link and Zelda's total amount of time spent in each other's company amounts to less than one day in Ocarina of Time.

>>8735082
I think this would be better candidate.

>>8735083
Good.

>>8736093
Yeah, but storybook romances tend to spawn without any development or necessary chemistries you need for real-life relationships. Disney movies are more ubiquitous for this.

The story definitely frames Link and Zelda as star-crossed with their arcs paralleling one another. They share a unique solidarity but are separated for most of the story. Even when Zelda can interact with Link, it has to be as Sheik.

Besides MM, OoT has the best Zelda story to actually reflect on.

>>8736050
projecting?

>>8735090
Zelda's literally feeling remorse for having put some random kid through hell to fix a stupid mistake she made as a kid herself.

>>8735082
>sends you back in time to when your accomplishments mean nothing and you grow old and die as a mundane hyrulian guard
nothing personnel, m’luv

>>8736071
based

Link is for lolis

>>8736728
>they all have adult forms
what did anon meme by rhis

>>8735142
Ruto is a nice girl. Spoiled, I know, but caring and passionated. Too bad she's a fish, but that doesn't seem to be a problem to many here.

>>8736682
The tragedy is that Zelda thinks she's doing Link a favor

>>8736676
It's pretty obvious she genuinely cares about Link going off the many Sheik cutscenes where she's literally waxing poetic about friendship, and growing up, and changing relationships. He's not some random kid to her. They share a unique bond.

>>8736734
He's a fucking pedophile

>>8736728
midna's not a loli, just a shortstack

>>8735082
Link is the most blueballed character of all time, but by 1998 Nintendo fans were used to this, and by 2022 Nintendo fans tucked their balls behind their thighs.

>>8736676
You're thinking about it more than the devs did. This is a fairy tale. Link saved the day, goes back to being a kid, and moves on to new adventures.

It's only the retroactive timeline that Nintendo introduced that gives the illusion of depth. Logically, Link could have been sent back and told Zelda about Ganon's coup at any point in his adventure.

>>8736676
Kek, my ex-girlfriend's favourite Zelda was Wind Waker, and that was generally her response to any sort of rejection you showed her.

>>8735082
nah, the relationship fei and elly share in xenogears is way sadder

>>8736918
>Logically, Link could have been sent back and told Zelda about Ganon's coup at any point in his adventure.
The future timeline would have remained fucked, though.

Or not, I guess, since the "lel Link dies" timeline is now a thing, which means they could've sealed Ganondorf without his help all along, maybe after awakening the Sages at best. Chalk up yet another reason to despise that farcical timeline.

>>8735082
Depends, does she hug her great champion?

>>8736101
Let's stick with a real game, OP's

>>8735082
she should’ve taken link’s seed so a descendant would remain in her timeline

>>8736970
>The future timeline would have remained fucked, though.
OOT has no concept of divergent timelines, the concept was introduced by Nintendo 15 years later. Which I'm fine with, as long as people don't interpret OOT like it was planned that way.

>>8737090
That’s bullshit, because then why would she have sent you back in the first place. You even see the future timeline celebrate in your honor with Ganondorf gone, while Link returns to his own time.

>>8737027
>real game
>OP's
astoundingly retarded

>>8737119
>why would she have sent you back in the first place
So Link can grow up normally instead of waking up suddenly in a dark room with insatiably horniness

>>8737119
What? The ending very clearly shows divergent timelines. Hell, Zelda even tells you outright that by putting the Master Sword back in its place, the road between times would close. See the following:

https://youtu.be/ge8zd1ZR-hc?t=138

>>8737160
meant to reply to >>8737090

>>8737157
He’s gonna be insatiably horny anyway, especially with all those hugs Cremia keeps giving him

>>8737160
>Zelda even tells you outright that by putting the Master Sword back in its place, the road between times would close.
That just means Link can't time travel anymore.

>>8737175
Yes, but it also implies the "times" as they are keep on existing. The future he just saved does not get erased or overwritten, which is made clear by the fact the ending immediately after Link gets sent back shows everyone in the future timeline celebrating (except for Mido and King Zora, who grieve over losing Saria and Ruto respectively), and the Sages are shown awakened as well. Would be mighty silly for that to be shown, and then not matter because Link gets sent back and nothing he did mattered anymore, not to mention what was the point in sealing Ganondorf away then? Unless you want to imply that act somehow made it so it carries over to the past as well.

>>8735356
Good choice.

>>8736676
Of course she feels remorse, which is why she's sending him to the past. But there's a contradiction in her heart and mind, because she wants Link to stay with her. When Link gives her the Ocarina, they're basically hand-holding and Zelda feels terrible pain because this is the good bye. But, as you said, she feels guilty and, before her selfish wishes, she does what she thinks is the fair thing to do, say good bye to the man she loves, and make him regain his 7 years of childhood.
Also in a way this is like an Anju and Kafei situation, because Link has the body of a 14 year old but the mind of 7.

>>8736758
>tfw first stirrings of feelings for girls was when child ruto tenderly swims over to link and makes him promise to marry her for the sapphire spiritual stone

>>8735082
No

>>8736958

>>8735142
>Wario-ah in lo~ove

>>8737264
>it also implies the "times" as they are keep on existing
Did you really think that in 1998? Why did nobody talk about this?
>The future he just saved does not get erased or overwritten, which is made clear by the fact the ending immediately after Link gets sent back
Wrong, the ending is happening after Ganon is defeated, but BEFORE Link is sent back. There is even a wipe to white, and we only see Child Link after that point. I'm not saying Nintendo's retcon 15 years later doesn't make sense - it works fine, which is why they wrote it - just that it didn't exist in 1998.
>Would be mighty silly for that to be shown, and then not matter because Link gets sent back and nothing he did mattered anymore
Nintendo played fast and loose with time travel in their early 3D fantasy videogame. Is this a surprise? The only pop fiction to handle time travel non-retardedly in the 90s was Bill & Ted.

>>8739694
you’re trying to force your own gay headcanon when the signs are all there that there are two timelines in ocarina of time

>>8738007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFrWZBvfBEU

terranigma is love

>>8739696
My headcanon? For a story that was introduced 15 years later? I'm just telling you what's in the game, my dude. Nobody mentions split timelines, not even Wind Waker, which is a direct sequel.

>>8739702
You're interpreting what's in the game as simplistically as possible with no regard for analytical thought. Every point you've made is surface level and falls apart the moment you think about the game.

The ending shows us two timelines. We see the future first and then the past. Do you actually believe the implication is that the future is now gone? The tragedy comes from the fact that Link cannot partake in the future he saved. You keep going on about how people are giving more thought to the story than the devs, but you're not even thinking. You're not engaging with the game or the story or anything of substance.

>>8739916
You need a hobby

>>8739694
>Did you really think that in 1998? Why did nobody talk about this?
I don't know what groups or websites you engaged with back then, but I distinctly recall people on fansites and message boards trying to make heads or tails of what happened in OoT's ending and what its implications were. Keep in mind the intention at the time was for OoT to essentially be the Imprisoning War spoken about in ALttP's backstory, which is why people were pretty confused as to how that worked with Link going back to his own time and all.
>>8739702
>Nobody mentions split timelines, not even Wind Waker, which is a direct sequel.
Miyamoto and Aonuma speak about it in an interview with GamePro from around TWW's release:

Q: Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?

Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. You can tell this from the opening story, and there are references to things from Ocarina located throughout the game as well.
Miyamoto: Well, wait, which point does the hundred years start from?
Aonuma: From the end.
Miyamoto: No, I mean, as a child or as a...
Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.
Miyamoto: This is pretty confusing for us, too. (laughs) So be careful.

Here, it's Miyamoto who brings it up, even if he himself is confused by the details, so even if it was Aonuma who came up with it, Miyamoto was at least aware of it.

As for within TWW itself, fan translations show the Japanese version was more explicit. The King of Red Lions tells Link the Triforce of Courage broke up when the Hero of Time "left Hyrule travelling through time," but NoA changed it to "was called to embark on another journey," effectively obscuring it.

Link is a robot, and zelda is barely emotional. I’ve seen better love stories at a dog park.

>>8740261
Link and Zelda both have a lot of personality if you look for it, Zelda more so.

>>8735083
fpbp

>>8740194
>Miyamoto and Aonuma speak about it in an interview with GamePro from around TWW's release
It looks like the split timelines weren't invented 15 years later, but are regardless a post-OOT invention of Aonuma's/TWW's writers. I guess it's natural to want to continue the next chapter from the point that Ganon was defeated in the previous.

>>8740194
>the intention at the time was for OoT to essentially be the Imprisoning War spoken about in ALttP's backstory
An intention that Nintendo ultimately abandoned, then much later had to reconcile with via the "Downfall timeline".

>>8740847
It was effectively abandoned with TWW, true, but you still have to wonder how exactly the events of OoT, at the time of its release, were supposed to tie into ALttP if the future was erased.

>>8740921
No, I mean it was abandoned entirely. The changes made to the Triforce and Ganondorf's origin in OoT makes it totally impossible to be tied into ALttP as a prequel.

>>8740956
I can't speak as to what their intentions exactly were, but indeed it makes the connection very difficult, which is why a lot of people back in 1998-1999 where scratching their heads as to what happened. I still cannot subscribe to the idea that Ganondorf would get sealed, threaten to exterminate the descendants of Link, Zelda and the Sages, and then lol doesn't matter cause future gets overwritten.

>>8740980
Anyway, I think the correct answer here, at the end of the day, is Nintendo didn't think about it too hard and didn't really expect anyone to ask too many questions. Callbacks to ALttP were definitely made throughout the game through to the ending, but it's clear they didn't take much care to make sure everything lined up. Series-spanning lore was only just beginning to take more prominence at this point, after all.

What exactly happened on the "good" timeline? Did child Link tell the king that Ganondorf was a scumbag and to capture him? Did the king just believe him? Was child Zelda aware of anything?

>>8740980
>>8740985
OoT ends with Ganondorf back to being human and holding only one Triforce piece as he gets sealed away. How does he go from that to having the whole Triforce and being permanently turned to Ganon?

>>8741005
It is indeed an issue, and lots of people raised that very question at the time, but like I said, I think Nintendo just didn't care enough to make it match up. If they thought about it at all, perhaps they thought it would be addressed in a future game.
>>8741004
Pretty much lol Aonuma basically says that's what happened in an interview from around TP's release. I do have a pet theory that Link made use of the Triforce mark he gets at the very last scene when he goes to meet Zelda again to establish his credibility, but admittedly it's more of a "it's a detail that happens to conveniently fit for my narrative" kind of thing.

By the way, OoT is not even the first game in the series to raise continuity issues with earlier titles. ALttP, clearly stated to be a prequel to the first two games set in the distant past, has you kill Ganon outright, yet he's somehow back for LoZ, and up to that point, the only mechanism we knew about for him coming back to life was sprinkling Link's blood on his ashes. Nintendo clearly didn't give it much thought here, either. Ganon was just a big bad you kill at the end like in every other game, and that was that.

>>8740261
It seems you can't catch subtleness.
Go watch hollywood american romantic comedias with Adam Sandler.

>>8741005
Nintendo implies a timeline where Link fucking dies at the end of OoT and Ganondorf gets both triforces, the sages desperately seal him in their realm to contain him until ALttP.
It's retarded but plausible in a way.

>>8741017
I found this on Zelda Dungeon, so take it with a grain of salt:

>The King of Hyrule in Ocarina of Time is never actually seen in-game, so his physical appearance is unknown. He is the father of Princess Zelda and the sworn brother of the Goron's patriarch Darunia. The king is first mentioned during Link's introduction to Zelda; she mentions telling her father about the prophetic dream she had as they spy on Ganondorf bowing to him. It is the king's disbelief in her dream that drives Zelda to enlist Link's help and stop Ganondorf's plans in secret.
>Once Link has collected all three Spiritual Stones, Ganondorf suddenly attacks Hyrule Castle, driving Zelda and Impa into hiding, with the castle surrendering a short time afterward. It is unknown what became of the king as a result of this or whether he survived into Link's adulthood.
>Upon being returned to his childhood at the end of the game, Link revisits Hyrule Castle warns the King of Hyrule of what Ganondorf has planned. His possession of the Triforce of Courage is enough to sway Zelda's father's decision, and he proceeds to arrange for Ganondorf's arrest so that he can be tried and executed for his crimes.

So at the ended it was all that mfer's fault, and he doesn't even show up in the game!

>>8741090
>Nintendo implies a timeline
Yeah, over a decade after OoT.

>>8741093
This is all Aonuma states on the matter:

>–When does Twilight Princess take place?

>Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.

>–And the Wind Waker?

>Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link’s time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...

>>8735142
based fish cunny appreciator

>>8740182
this is his hobby

>love story
They're not in love.
Zelda is in danger, and Link has to save her for the sake of the kingdom and its people. They're just playing their roles.

>all these love denialists

>>8741005
The problem with Ocarina of Time's story is that it basically became a prequel for the Imprisoning War when it was supposed to BE the Imprisoning War. It's Twilight Princess that actually fucked things up. OoT could at least still lead into ALttP's backstory as it was, but it can't anymore since TP establishes that a new Link straight up kills Ganondorf before anything resembling the Imprisoning War can happen.

Was she really a different Zelda or was that just something the western localization made up?

>>8742283
That Zelda is the Zelda the Zelda in the original Zelda is named after. And it's in the Japanese version, too.

>>8736071
dangerously based

She doesn’t even show any affection towards him, and I’ve played OoT dozens of times.

>>8740836
Or it was always there and they just didn't spell it out for you until before Wind Waker

>>8741050
>sprinkling Link's blood on his ashes
That's what happened after the credits in ALttP. Link shouldn't have put his sword to sleep. Link's Awakening is set in fucking purgatory

>>8742283
>>8742340
It's the very first princess Zelda, yes. And I guess she was named after Hylia's descendant from Skyward Sword. Damn I really do feel like an autist after typing this. Like I'm some Kingdom Hearts lore expert or something

>>8742380
Except it isn't in Wind Waker, it's only in this interview.

>>8742348
Nintendo likes to frame the Zelda-Link relationship very implicitly, but Zelda is certainly one of the waifus in OOT. btw I didn't realize how waifu-centric OOT was until my recent playthrough, I guess because I'm not a pervert. I don't think even BOTW beats it.

>>8742489
The Wind Waker's mere existence is framed around the timeline split, you troglodyte. Majora's Mask was already released and took place in the timeline Link was sent to, yet The Wind Waker is a sequel to the future Zelda stayed in – the one where Link left, a literal plot point mentioned in The Wind Waker opening.

Do you pay attention to the media you consume?

>>8742489
see >>8740194
It was also mentioned in the Japanese version by the King. I believe the Hylian text in the intro scroll, once translated, also mentions the Hero of Time traveling into the flows of time and thus not appearing upon Ganon's release.

>>8742348
You just think that for there to be affection or love, it has to be explicitly shown.
The romance in OOT is obvious but subtle at the same time.
Read this post:>>8735090

>>8736734
Best of both world obviously.

>>8735082
>Is this the most melancholic love story?
It should have been, anon. But unfortunately no. Thr nips are too retarded and autistic to express love with lust, they're all either complete degenerates or purity fags.

>>8735082
>could live in this world where you have toiled to make it livable again and everyone knows you and what you have done
>sent back in time to a world where you no longer have a home and you arent known for doing jack shit outside of the deku tree
fuck you zelda

>>8745910
Ocarina of Time was actually supposed to have romance sim elements early in development. That's why 90% of the supporting cast is female.

>>8735142
>>8736758
>Doesn't shut up about marriage ever
Learn to spot red flags, boys.

>>8745910
I actually think it's better that it's not super obvious and explicit.
The tragic and melancholic thing about OOT is that the 2 protagonists never really had time or chance to be intimate, they were always in danger, but needed each other.
The most actual romantic moment is their good bye

>>8735142
Ruto is a spoiled brat and not worthy of romance

>>8735082
Not even the saddest moment of the game. Pic related on the other hand...

>>8749321
Nice headcanon, loser.

>>8739694
>Did you really think that in 1998?
Evidently you never watched Dragonball Z in 1998, time travel works exactly the same way

>>8749330
>Literal part of the game
>Headcanon
Stop skipping dialogue

>>8749321
Saria was my childhood waifu. Every moment with her was melancholic as fuck.

>>8748084
>trad fishwife
this is the opposite of a red flag

>>8749554
>trad
>whores out and racemixes as soon as she can

>>8749554
She's a rupee digger and you know it

>>8749390
She is not crying and seems very happy when she says goodbye to link.

>>8749565
>seems very happy
Watch that scene again on Jewtube and say that again with a straight face.

>>8739694
>Wrong
Nah.
>I'm not saying Nintendo's retcon 15 years later doesn't make sense - it works fine, which is why they wrote it - just that it didn't exist in 1998.
Nah. They definitely didn't intend to have two branching paths future games would be based on but you're retarded if you think they weren't explicitly stating that two different timelines exist by the end of OoT. All they did was build off of what they had already established.

>>8740836
You're done retard. Stop moving the goalpost. Split timeline has been a thing since the game released. It could not be any more obvious. The only thing up for debate is exactly when they started using that as a narrative device.

>>8749607
Okay I did. She is smiling. You autist.

>>8735082
>Love story
It was pretty one sided

>>8749864
Link had no idea Sheik was Zelda. That's one of the best points of that love story.

>>8741004
>child link comes back to warn Zelda and the royal family about Ganondorf
>has the Triforce of courage as proof
>Ganondorf flees back to the desert
>war ensues between the Gerudo and Hylians
>Ganondorf is eventually captured before the events of TP

>>8749887
I like to think Ganondorf attempts his coup exactly like he originally planned in OoT, except now the castle is ready for it and they spring a trap on him, hence him being "blind to the danger around him" as stated in TP.

>>8749870
Even after the reveal it was still pretty one sided despite her gushing about he's finally returned of course he's happy to see her again but to call it love is a bit much at least from Link's side

>>8749870
>Sheik was Zelda
wait what??

>>8749554
>being marriage-obsessed = trad
you will never be trad or a woman

>>8749907
Zelda was a lot more connected with Link, since she was watching over him as Sheik. Link, on the other hand, only knew Zelda as a kid, then at the very end when it was revealed it was her, and he didn't even have any time to react because Ganondorf appeared.
Another factor: Link was in a "coma" for 7 years, these 7 years, Zelda kept thinking about Link, and awaited his return consciously. Link barely had any time to process all the fuckery.
Let's put it this way, if Link felt nothing for Zelda, why is the very last scene in the game Link going back to meet Zelda at the castle?

>>8749967
>Let's put it this way, if Link felt nothing for Zelda, why is the very last scene in the game Link going back to meet Zelda at the castle?
Because the fate of the very world depended on it? Just like how Zelda sent him to get the Triforce from the Temple of Time? Like how when Sheik revealed herself to be Zelda she held the literal fate of future in her hand along with Link and Ganondorf? Like how the Deku Tree's last words were to leave the forest to save Hyrule?

>>8749984
Ganondorf is sealed on the sacred realm, he isn't part of the future or the past.

>>8749987
He's still around in the past because it's an alternate timeline at least until TP where he eventually gets captured, executed, and banished hastily to the Twilight Realm

>>8749987
Headcanon. Nothing in the game suggests this. It's a theory that was first formulated by people who didn't want to accept the implications of a past/future split and was propagated all the way up until TP's release.