/vr/ - Retro Games

>Saturn still launches at an absurd price point
>gets outsold by SNES and Genesis
>Sonic 3 has load times
>almost no games at launch
>PlayStation shows up and crushes it

Sonic 2 is now the peak of videogames.
MJ survives

>>8698481
More like...
>Saturn sells out in Christmas 1994.
>32X never happen, so Virtua Racing, Virtua Fighter (properly), Star Wars Arcade, and especially Sonic's Chaitix (Knuckles' Chaotix but with Sonic and Tails) will be Saturn games from day 1.
>The Genesis is discontinued but has a special cartage to play Genesis/Sega CD games.
>The PS1 has much stiffer competition now.
>Super NES sales are now in line to the Saturn (DKC is still a hit).

>>8698486
Sonic 3 at the Saturn's 1994 launch would have saved the Saturn.

>>8698469
It winds up exactly how Sonic CD lived. Great game on an undersold system that gets the love it deserved years later. Our timeline is the best way Sonic 3K could have existed.

>>8698469
shitty 2d game on my next gen console? Yeah im getting a Playstation bro

>>8698490
It's too unhooked from reality. Sega Japan planned the 32X as a knee-jerk reaction to the Atari Jaguar and the Saturn went into the new generation with a very antiquated way to program.
At best, Saturn would have been mildly successful at launch and in the early half of that gen (sort of how VF1/2 sold systems in Japan). Having to compete with PlayStation as it came into its own and later N64 would have still pushed it to a distant 3rd.

>>8698495
The Sega CD was plagued with FMV games, if the Sega CD was just a basic disc drive like the Turbo Grafx 16 CD it not only would of done much better but the Saturn would have been backwards compatible with the Genesis/Sega CD as well.

>>8698498
>I don't know how HUGE Sonic was back in the 1990s.
>I don't know the kids market.
>>8698501
The 32X was Sega of America's idea, Sega of Japan just wanted to go straight to Saturn as both Yu Suzuki and Yuji Naka HATED the idea of the 32X.

The Saturn would have been a smash hit, not PS1 numbers but more then the N64 due to using CDs.

>>8698514
>The 32X was Sega of America's idea, Sega of Japan just wanted to go straight to Saturn
Hayao Nakayama was concerned about the Atari Jaguar and felt that Sega needed something to fill the gap until Saturn came out.
He also forced the Genesis into an early retirement because MD was basically dead in Japan after 1993.
All these poor decisions Sega made - having 3-4 systems/add-ons competing with each other for market share - stem from the Japanese MD doing poorly.
Nintendo pulled a similar boneheaded move in Japan after the N64 launched. They had a giant install base with the Super Famicom, and everyone was buying PlayStation instead of N64. Their response was to drastically reduce shelf space for SFC games and introduce Nintendo Power carts in favor of N64, but it didn't help N64 sell any better over there. All it did was harm their old base.
Sony did it right with PS1/PS2 and even with PS2/PS3. PS3 sold terribly, but tens of millions still had PS2 so they supported it for another half-decade instead of trying to kill it prematurely.

>>8698543
>Sega staff have already said that the 32X was SOA's idea.
>Consoles in those days lasted 5 years, by 1993 the Mega Drive was already 5 years old there anyway.
>The Sega CD needed to just be a basic CD add on like the TG-16CD, that way Saturn gets it's backwards compatibility.
>The Nintendo Power carts didn't fuck Nintendo over, it was sticking to carts that fuck them over, if the N64 had even a 4X (preferable 8X but those drives cost as much as the system itself in 1996) CD drive (CAV discs, can't run stock CDs) it would of done much better (also 16MB of SDRam cost just as much as 4MB of RDRam back then).

>>8698543
>Hayao Nakayama was concerned about the Atari Jaguar and felt that Sega needed something to fill the gap until Saturn came out.
Tom Kalinske mocked the idea of the Saturn based on early details saying he would "never sell it." and refused to move on despite the genesis platform falling behind since 93., SoJ designed the 32X for SoA to address their concerns. That's how the 32X was born.

why lie on the internet?

>>8698564
32X's hardware was designed in the states too.

>>8698490
Retarded

>>8698596
>Spotted the zoomer.

>>8698632
Not being delusional doesn't make him a zoomer.

>>8698486
Fpbp, thank you.
Thank God for our timeline where Sonic 3 & Knuckles for the Sega Genesis (not cruddy Saturn) sits atop the mountain.

>>8698632
Your head canon is so far fetched as to not even warrant a serious reply. I'm almost 40.

>>8698560
>>8698564
>Sega Japan tasks its American branch to develop an add-on because its CEO was scared of the Jaguar
>Sega Japan neglects to tell them they are working on a new system
>Sega Japan micromanages SoA, kills the Genesis despite its continued success in the international market, and botches the Saturn launch
Sega could not save themselves from their own retardation.

>>8698673
Saturn needed it alot more then the Genesis.

>>8698678
There is no head canon here.

>>8698514
Delusional. Virtua Fighter was a smash hit in Japan and everyone there just bought Saturns to be Virtua Fighter machines and absolutely nothing else, leaving the system to languish on the handful of otaku whales that were buying mahjong porn. If Sonic 3 was made for the Saturn launch it would have just been America's Virtua Fighter. People would buy it to be a Sonic 3 machine and then jump ship when Crash Bandicoot and Mario 64 came out. It may have sold slightly more units but not substantially so. At best it would have remained stable until the Dreamcast launch rather than crashing out in early 1998.

>>8698793
Japan =/= North America.
In Japan the FGC carried the Saturn though out it's life while in North America all anyone cared about is Sonic

Virtua Fighter will still get released on the Saturn and there would of been multiple Sonic games for the Saturn besides Sonic 3 like Sonic's Chaotix (Knuckles' Chaotix but with Sonic and Tails), Sonic 3D Blast (no Genesis version), Sonic Xtream (actually seeing a release this time), Sonic into Dreams, Sonic Jam (CD replacing 3 and the commercials), Sonic R and Sonic Rangers.

shadow the hedgehog never exists thus saving the world from cringe fan art
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loNsD8zXeWE

People say the 32X was a mistake but that assumes an early Saturn launch where the two come head to head almost out of the gate. The 32X would have been great IF it meant the Saturn would be allowed more time to cook. Sega was in such a panic over the PS1 they felt they had to beat it to market but we know that the 32bit generation was a slow burn at the beginning. There was no need for Sega to get into a footrace with Sony. Nintendo delayed the N64 for an entire year and made the same calculation by using the Virtual Boy as a means of filling the gap. Sega should have kept the Saturn in the oven to shore up its hardware and aimed for a fall 1995 release and used the 32X to fill the gap. We already know that it was great for Virtua Fighter and the hardware was perfect for arcade ports. They could have loaded it up with Capcom and Neo Geo games. Various beat em ups like arcade accurate TMNT, etc. Then if it lived Konami might have actually released the canceled Castlevania game that they were making.

>>8698817
>Dreamcast gets Balan Wonderworld
kek

>>8698817
>In Japan the FGC carried the Saturn though out it's life
No it didn't. First there was no "FGC" in 1994. People just wanted to play Virtua Fighter. Any "FGC" that existed was still 100% arcade based so consoles made no difference. Second, the Saturn was not successful in Japan. Don't let Youtube weebs tell you that because its a lie. The Saturn had a pitiful software attach rate because most everyone bought Virtua Fighter and nothing else. The sales of the system cratered after VF2. They had a decent install base from those early sales but nobody to sell games to. So they relied on the small percentage of owners that were still buying games to keep the system afloat. The early install base allowed it to be stable but not "healthy."

The Wii actually had a similar attach rate problem where people were buying it just to go bowling. But that was less of a problem for Nintendo because it sold a billion units. But even then you saw the consequences. The Wii became a dumping ground for shovelware. All those weeb treasures on the Saturn? It was just the 90s Japan equivalent of shovelware.

>>8698817
>Sonic 3D Blast (no Genesis version)
This would be a downgrade. Genesis version is better.

>>8698840
Not even Balan Wonderworld, Sega would of had a switchable Game Gear in 2017 (Sega's answer to the Nintendo Switch) if they stood in the hardware market and that would've got Sonic Wonderworld and Sonic Odyssey, except much better.

As for the Dreamcast that would of not seen release until 2000 with proper DVD support if the Saturn did well.

Dreamcast 2 = Releases in 2006, an overclocked Dreamcast with more/faster ram, waggle controls and stronger internet support.
Dreamcast HD = releases in 2012, A HD Dreamcast with alot more ram and Blu-Ray support that uses a zombified SH4 CPU with a full 64Bit bus and multi core support and a stronger mobile GPU because it uses the same family of GPUs as the Dreamcast.

>>8698887
Yeah and then Sega buys AMD and Intel and currently would be competing with Tesla to make the best electric car, the Sega Zoomzoom.

Sonic 3 becomes the best selling saturn game in the IS at 500k copies and is now "the cult classic no one played!". The saturn sold 11 million units instead of 10. Sonic 3 goes for $300 on ebay and has been ported even less than it was in our world.

>>8698887
You're omitting the part where Yuji Naka prevented 9/11 through the power of teamwork and frosted tips, bought out Square, and ensured permanent careers for young upstart bands like The Offspring and Smash Mouth.

>>8698873
>Still thinks that FGC means Family Guy Community.
>The FIGHTING GAME COMMUNITY did carry the Saturn in Japan, otherwise Sega would of went 3rd party years earlier.
>Other games like Daytona USA, Panzer Dragoon, Sega Rally, Nights, Shining Force 3 and Burning Rangers did sell well over there.
>The Saturn OUTSOLD the N64 in Japan due to the N64 being too western/party centric over there.
>>8698876
It would of had a red book version of Jun Senoue's, Tatsuyuki Maeda's, Masaru Setsumaru's and Seirou Okamoto's soundtrack in it and it be a proper 3D game rather then being a pre-rendered game.

>>8698469
It'd help the system gain some early momentum, but it wouldn't change what ultimately killed the Saturn in the West.

Sega still has the shit stain of the Sega CD and the upcoming shit stain of the 32X on their hands, meaning the issue of consumer confusion over what the Genesis' successor would be still remains. The Saturn is still a massive pain in the balls to develop for, so Western devs don't bother and Japanese devs only put out games after they release on PSX. Bernie Stollar still has the retarded view that 2-D, Japanese games don't belong on a Japanese system primarily designed for 2-D and he still fails to plug these holes in the Saturn's library with anything worthwhile. Sonic Team still has no interest in developing a 3-D Sonic while being ultra-picky about what Sonic Xtreme should be, torpedoing its development. The Saturn still doesn't have a dedicated 3-D Sonic and Sonic mania concludes around 1996.

It'd take a lot more than one game to get the Saturn back on track. Maybe the Saturn could have been saved if Sonic 3 and Knuckles was a Saturn launch title AND Sony went through with not releasing Mega Man 8 and X4 on the US PSX due to 2-D, which leads Capcom to make Resident Evil 2 a Saturn exclusive outside of Japan, but that's still optimistic.

You'd really need to find some way to get the US interested in Sakura Wars if you wanted the console to have the same level of success as in Japan.

>>8698897
Post bubble-era Japan does not have that type of cash, Sega would of stood a generation behind like what Nintendo did with the Wii, Wii U and Switch.
>>8698913
More like 15 million alone while the Saturn with a proper Sonic game will get around 35-40 million units sold.

>>8698921
>>The Saturn OUTSOLD the N64 in Japan due to the N64 being too western/party centric over there.
5.8 million vs 5.5 million. That's 300,000 units more. To put that into context, the 32X sold 600,000 units. Virtual Boy sold 700,000 units.

>>8698921
>Still thinks that FGC means Family Guy Community
I never heard the term FGC until this thread. I will now always refer to it as the Family Guy Community on purpose and say things like "ah, freakin sweet! a Family Guy thread!" or "holy crap, Lois!"
Everyone that mentions the FGC is now Peter Griffin, which is fair game since Peter is retro vr because of the FG game on PS2.

>>8698925
>To fix the Sega CD you needed to make it nothing but a basic CD drive with extra ram just like the Turbo Grafx 16 CD.
>The 32X should've never existed.
>The Saturn needed it's North American launch at the same time as Japan's launch.

>>8698481
>Sonic 3 has load times

Sonic 3 is on the Saturn without load times.

>>8698971
We're talking about the Saturn's launch, not Sonic Jam.

>>8698469
sega buys nvidia and releases arcade perfect ports of model 1 and 2 games for pc with their own custom add on cards.

>>8699013
Sonic 3's data isn't that big, it can load in pretty quickly. You'd probably have one load at the start for the big static stuff, and then level data that's under about 200KB could be loaded in between levels. With a disc drive that can do 300KB/s that means less than 1 second load times.

>>8699040
Nvidia was more of a deal with PC graphics cards, the OG XBox, the PS3 and the Switch will still exist.

>>8699042
I wonder if they could have achieved it in 1994, though. On average, mid-90s games had much worse load times than late 90s games on the same system.
The Mortal Kombat and Mega Man games come to mind.

>>8699090
Why would that make any difference? Less than 200KB of data is still less than 200KB of data regardless of what year it is. The CD-ROM drive is still a 2x Speed drive so it should still be able to load that in less than 1 second. The only thing that might kill it is seek times, but again I don't see that being an issue since Sonic 3 wouldn't really have a ton of files and directories to create that problem.

If a Saturn or PS1 game has bad load times, it's because the developer was completely retarded. Even Sonic CD with a 1x Speed drive didn't really have bad load times regardless of what some people who never actually played it will say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMmAIfS-wGQ

It gets similar reception similar to CV SotN, a great 16-bit game on 5th gene hardware. Then Crash and Mario 64 come out and, along with Sega's console and financial woes, Sonic is considered retro and passe like CV, Mega Man etc. We'd probably get better Sonic games in 2d but there probably wouldn't be a large budget Sonic game

>>8699113
>Sonic CD with a 1x Speed drive didn't really have bad load times regardless of what some people who never actually played it will say
Fair point

>>8699115
SOTN is a proper 32-Bit game, it's just that Konami Nagoya (the team who did the Saturn port) is incompetent is all.

>>8699137
The game design is 16-bit/4th gen

schizo thread

>>8699148
No 4th gen system has a color pallet that deep and no 4th gen system can show that many colors on screen at once.

>>8699170
Take away the color and polygons or anything else 16-bit couldn't handle, it's just a sequel to Rondo. PC Engine CD could handle the game with almost no concessions to the gameplay and level design

>>8698469
People are very underwhelmed because it looks like a Sega Genesis game. It mildly bolsters Saturn sales but it's still fucked by '97.

>>8699148
No part of SoTN is 16-bit/4th gen. A 16-bit console would fucking die trying to render it.

>>8699186
Doesn't matter, it's 32-Bit.

>>8699208
>People are very underwhelmed because it looks like a Sega Genesis game. It mildly bolsters Saturn sales but it's still fucked by '97.
The color pallet will be lusher and the special stages will be real time 3D.

>>8699186
Dude is porting it to the Genesis.

https://youtu.be/wCWWwL21Nd0

>>8699221
And it's been heavily compromised to make it fit on 16 bit hardware.

>>8699218
>The color pallet will be lusher and the special stages will be real time 3D.
Wouldn't make a difference. A fully 3D Sonic game at launch is the only thing that might have saved the Saturn.

>>8699257
Its not done yet and still looks amazing.

>>8699269
Yes it would, Sonic was HUGE back then.

>>8699209
Just like Sonic 3 dumped on Saturn in hopes of "saving" the console would make it a 32-bit game

>>8699281
Sonic was big but a 2D Sonic game on the Saturn would have flopped for failing to use the awesome cutting edge power of 3D. Launching a next-gen console with a previous-gen game wouldn't have panned out well.

>>8699306
Not in 1994, also Rayman will like to have a word with you.

Some people here are really overestimating a 2D Sonic in late 1994, especially a hypothetical Saturn Sonic 3&K with Mega Drive-tier pixel art. Not to mention you would damage your own reputation with the Genesis and PAL Mega Drive owners, imagine Sonic 2 (a 1992 game) being the final mainline Sonic game on the console (excluding CD because it was on an add-on).

People wanted 3D or something "3D" enough to fool them, like DKC prerl-rendered graphics. DKC would have destroyed a Saturn pixel art Sonic in late 1994.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SbHL8-XkXMA

>>8699452
Sega and Nintendo are 2 different beasts that work completely differently from each other, what works for Nintendo will not work for Sega and vice versa.

Sonic 3 will still sell like hot cakes on the Saturn.

>>8699452
No.

>would of
>would of
>would of
>would of

Stop.

>>8698469
>shoulda woulda coulda
top fantasizing and hypothesizing. It doesn't change a thing.

>>8699452
Clockwork Knight didn't turn heads. It was all due to marketing DKC, not because of the graphics themselves.

>>8699838
Proof that you can wrap up turds in gold foil and sell it to normies - as long as marketing is good. Fuck normies then.

Why do people want the Shaturn to be redeemed?
No one cares weebcucks, it's just a dead console and nothing more.

>>8699838
DKC is actually a good game though
Clockwork Knight looks like something kids would have nightmares about

>>8700043
People just want to imagine Sega would have managed to continue being a major home console juggernaut if the Saturn hadn't flopped, despite the fact that the Saturn and Dreamcast both had literally nothing carrying them except Sonic and the only redeeming potential anyone can think of for the Saturn is "yeah well if it DID have Sonic"

>>8700053
Cringe opinion

>>8700064
The Shaturn is a byproduct of SEGA itself. It's failure is a example of the state of SEGA itself, it is not a seperate issue

To keep SEGA the "Nintendo Killer" it had to
A: Be bought out by the west from the japs
B: Japs pick their poision and work with the west without bitching aka fire Jewji Naka
C: Accept they will never shine next to Nintendo without the edge of the west's marketing, and thus, cancel Sonic and focus on games like Yakuza and Sakruai Wars forever.

A SEGA that's "still in the business" is a timeline you'd likely not like unless you hate Sonic enough to deal with it. There's no other option to cope with.

>>8698469
>The mascot showpiece for the brand new 32 bit 3D $399 super hardware (more than $500 in today's money) is a 2D platformer that looks and plays exactly like the game released in 1991 for the old machine and looks less advanced than Donkey Kong Country on the SNES
Imagine if the Nintendo 64 was released with a few new stages for Super Mario World instead of Super Mario 64

>>8700083
Really all Sega needed to do to make the Saturn a success is tell Sega of America to suck it up and get behind the system early on around 92/93ish. Start getting things ready for a September 95 launch by getting documentation, SDKs, devkits, etc. translated and in the hands of developers early on, get third parties on board and get good western aimed titles ready for launch. People really overlook how much damage the 32X did not just in brand and consumer confidence, but in how badly it diverted resources away from prepping Saturn for launch.

In this scenario Saturn hardware remains as it was, but no there's no more add-ons for the Genesis after the Sega CD. Any games made for 32X get moved to Saturn or Genesis/Sega CD, which ever is a better fit. Saturn now launches in the US in September of 1995 at ~$349 with Virtua Fighter Remix, a more polished Daytona USA, Virtua Racing Deluxe, Star Wars Arcade, Doom (more on par with what we see in the recent 32X re-port), Stellar Assault, Panzer Dragoon, Mortal Kombat 2 (maybe 3 even?), NBA Jam Tournament Edition, Knuckles Chaotix, etc.

You also have Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter 2, and Virtua Cop right around the corner for the holidays. Hell maybe even having some EA sports games at launch could be possible since they had made FIFA for the 32X. Maybe you could have both FIFA 96 and a quick and dirty Madden 96 available at launch.

With that line up you now have a system that looks much better in it's 3D Capabilities, and no 32X to kill consumer confidence in the brand. Could they beat the PS1? Probably not, but beating the N64 for a solid 2nd place is in the realm of possibility.

>>8698469
>Sega rejects the McDonalds deal
What MdDonald's deal ?

>>8700142
Love how Saturn weebs are always talking about how the 32x was what actually killed Sega and ruined their reputation, despite Genesis games selling millions all the way up til 98, and the Dreamcast being the most profitable launch of a consumer electronic product in history at the time.
And then their idea to save the Saturn is to, of course port 32x games to it.

>>8700083
No, if anything it's...

1.SOA has to be nothing but a Japanese puppet with no say on anything, it's how Nintendo survived and why Sega didn't.
2.Keep western output to a very small amount of studios, mostly Traveller's Tales and please keep STI on things like Sonic Vs. Congo Bongo: Mini's on the March.
3.No Sonic = Hudson Soft all over again, and nobody wants another Hudson Soft.

They have to be just like Nintendo to survive, otherwise Sammy will gobble them up and they will be reserved on pachinko and mobile gacha games, just like Konami, and you will be lucky to get Super Sonic R (Reboot) and Sonic Girl (gacha moba for arcades and PCs, with an all female case that when you lose you get fan service shots of the ladies).

>>8700165
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4z6S6SErYA

>>8698673
>Fpbp
What is with this sudden influx of newfags misusing this phrase? Or is it just one guy who can't count?

>>8700087
I love video game hypothetical threads for how completely retarded they get
>guys what if [thing was different]? I bet [Nintendo utterly blown the fuck out and dead in a month as competitor ushered in utopian golden age of video games and competitor becomes the richest and most beloved company in the world]

>>8698837
Honestly the 32x didn’t need to exist anyway. They could’ve pushed back the Saturn (they wouldn’t have but since we’re being hypothetical) and kept riding out the Genesis. I’m pretty sure 1995 was the best year in sales for the thing (might be wrong) and Nintendo managed to grasp onto the SNES for another two years before the N64 hit the scene. They very well could’ve followed suit with Nintendo and kept up support for the Genesis before bringing out their souped up Saturn that could compete in the 3D department with the PSX. The 32x just didnt need to happen, in all timelines of existence it’s eternally doomed to fail. The Genesis could do 3D with the right chips and carts as demonstrated by Virtua Racing. Granted it was like $100 for the game but it had far more impressive visuals and ran far better than Star Fox. They could very well have propped themselves up on those kind of games to satiate demand for 3D polygonal gaming and at least hit the market before Nintendo. If they just delayed the Saturn to work out the processor and its 3D capabilities then I can guarantee it would’ve been at least second place to the PlayStation in that generation. It took Nintendo so long to get the N64 out and they were too busy pussyfooting about with the Virtual Boy at the time. C’est la vie

>>8700174
>1.SOA has to be nothing but a Japanese puppet with no say on anything, it's how Nintendo survived and why Sega didn't.
Notoriously mega successful Sega of Japan with all their massive tales of business prosperity without the involvement of others throughout the years like... uh... uhhhh...

>>8700168
>Despite Genesis games selling millions all the way up til 98
The actual sales data says other wise. They Genesis does ok for a Legacy system, but it can no way hold it's own against the PS1, even with the 32X. By 95/96/97 Genesis is being outsold by the PS1, N64, and even the Saturn. And that's even in the US.
> Dreamcast being the most profitable launch of a consumer electronic product in history at the time.
It had record breaking total sales, but it wasn't profitable by a long shot. Sega was hemorrhaging money on each system sold. While already being sold at a loss in Japan at $299, Sega of America decided to sell it at $199 less than a year later for their launch which made the loss far worse. This created a feedback loop where even though the system was selling and software was selling, it wasn't enough to make up the loss. Then to keep momentum going, they kept lowering the price, making the loss bigger and making the amount of software they needed to sell to stay afloat even more unrealistic.
>And then their idea to save the Saturn is to, of course port 32x games to it.
Not port games to it, the games would just be Saturn games from the start built from the ground up for it. In many cases the games would just remain on Saturn as they were originally planned like Stellar Assault and Chaotix. Doom was a pretty big deal for the PS1 launch, so having a good port that Carmack himself is involved in would be a big boost to the Saturn's launch as well. Star Wars was also experiencing a resurgence in popularity with Lucas announcing his intent to do the Special Edition around this time. So having something like Star Wars Arcade at launch for Saturn would have helped.

It's more about not splitting resources and focusing on having a strong Saturn launch.

>>8700203
Hang On
Space Harrier
Alex Kidd
Wonder Boy
Phantasy Star

>>8700202
>I’m pretty sure 1995 was the best year in sales for the thing
93 was their best year, after that it goes into a decline.

>>8698469
What's the best way to play 3&K these days?

>>8700241
Sonic 3 Complete or Sonic 3 A.I.R.

In a defiant act of fate, Gunpei Yokoi avoids the speeding car sent to hit him by Yamauchi, suffering a broken rib instead. Surviving the attack on his life, Yokoi realises that he is now number one on Nintendo’s shitlist, high above Sony and Sega. Gathering a team of hit detectives, he convinces courts of Nintendo’s wrongdoings and their Yakuza ties, leading to a massive hit in popularity and support for the company. In secret, he and his team continue work on the Wonderswan which arrives on the scene a year early than expected. With the colossal hit into their reputation, many of Nintendo’s third party teams leave the company with Game Freak moving under Bandai’s leadership. Pocket Monsters Red and Green are developed for the Wonderswan instead, and quickly explode in popularity. The Game Boy simply cannot keep up and fades away, as does the N64 which bombs on launch, as the Wonderswan comes to dominate the market. As punishment for his disobedience, Yamauchi is forced to sever his pinky finger, further increasing evidence of his Yakuza background and plummeting Nintendo support further (his claims that he lost it in a freak gardening accident fool nobody). Satisfied with dominating the handheld industry, Yokoi shifts attention to the home market and develops the Yokoivision system which sells extremely well, coming in second place after the PS2. The TSE eventually delists Nintendo from the exchange. Yokoi goes on to live a successful and happy life before he is tragically killed by a Yakuza hitman (who witnesses eventually identified as Satoru Iwata), who shoots him 18 times at point blank range. The incident sends shockwaves throughout the industry and a five year mourning period is established by the Japanese government. The remnants of Nintendo, now consisting of rogue programmers and former suits, now calling themselves the ‘Sons of Mario’ are classified as a terror cell leading to a widespread crackdown on them that continues to this day

>>8700261
>who witnesses eventually identified as Satoru Iwata
Lost

>>8700261
10/10 best post itt

>>8700261
If only

>>8700261
10/10 post

>>8700408
>>8700471
>>8700482
>>8700492
100% fake.

>>8700261
Nofriendo is such a colossal shitheap of a company. They should've never made it past the late 80s / early 90s.

>>8700261
gold
>>8700520
triggered

>>8700529
All of that is fake.

>>8700520
>>8700536
>IT'S A FAKE

>>8698757
>>Sega Japan neglects to tell them they are working on a new system
tommy knew about the saturn since 93. Nothing was kept secret from them, what's with the fanfic?

>>8700662
This really is the dumbest lie from the "Sega of Japan was jealous of Sega of America" narrative. Sega of America was well aware of what the Saturn was and what it's specs were as early as 1993 at least. They even knew about the dual SH-2s as early as Fall of 1993 when they started work on the 32X since they used the same set up in the 32X.

>>8698469
>the whole game with Knuckles
IMO Sonic 3 should be left as it is, with Knuckles being only a mysterious rastafarian rival instead of giving him a "muh emerald" backstory (worsened by the whole echidna tribe from the Adventure autism).
Just look at that cover, those eyes hidden between the bush, total kinoplex.
In fact, I'd rather him still have his proto name "Rastafari", rather than Knuckles.

>>8700261
Careful anon, you might get blacklisted by (((them))) if you make such a post so publicly

>>8698514
>I don't know how HUGE Sonic was back in the 1990s.
>I don't know the kids market.
Nobody wanted 2D games in 5th gen, when 3D games were promised to be the next big thing. Sonic being popular doesn't make a difference. And kids wanted the next big shit even more than adults did.

>>8700803
That would fucking suck.

>>8700261
>Written by Hideo Kojima

>>8700181
judging by the amount of miscounts i guess that's newfags

>>8700803
>as-is
>you never even confront the rival
That would have been awful

>>8701419
Sometimes less is more.

>>8700261
>Rent-free
Good Saturn thread

>>8701881
Fuck that. It would have been wasted potential. There's nothing wrong with giving a character more depth, and I don't know why you're trying to say that it's autistic to do so. Removing Knuckles as a playable character would also take away a chunk of Sonic 3&K's replayability. Do you dislike fun? How does Knuckles' backstory bother you that much?

>>8698493
I think you're severely overestimating how much of a different it would've made. I was hyped as fuck for Sonic 3 when it came out, but there's no way I would've been able to convince my parents to drop $400 on a Saturn after they just got me a Genesis 2 years earlier. It's a big reason that I never got a chance to play Knuckles Chaotix despite being interested in it; paying $150 for the 32X was a hard sell.

>>8701203
>Nobody wanted 2D games in 5th gen
Correction: marketers didn't think people wanted 2D games in 5th gen.

>>8702217
>Whaaa.... My parents are cheap.

>>8702225
I was 6 in 1994, it's not like I had my own money. Besides, the Genesis was just starting to come into its prime with the launch of the Model 2. A lot of people weren't ready to upgrade yet.

>>8702231
I see then.

>>8702223
Double correction: Only retards like you think no one wanted 3D games in 5th gen
Just because they overcompensated in one direction in gaming, there's documented evidence gamers wanted 3D games. It was as simple as Toy Story's success, if it can be just as awe inspiring as 2D, it's worth being 3D.

Hindsight bias need not apply here. Just because you're all jaded over the state of 3D in 2022, doesn't mean jack shit. Throughout the 2000s I had no passion for 2D games, ever. To me they were "nintendo shit" whenever I think of 2D games, aka, the gameboy. It was made for babbies in the mind of 2000s era gamers.

>>8698502
nerdy idiots actually sought out those FMV turds tho..

>>8700261
>Segalet obsessing over Nintendo
>again
Kek

>>8701203
>>8702223
Truth: excellent 2D games didn't excite gamers as much as janky 3D games did. Some genres such as sports, racing, and adventure got infinitely better the moment they went 3D.

>>8702323
They didn't, otherwise the Sega CD would of sold much better.

Do not directly respond to Sony trolls.

>>8702317
>Only retards like you think no one wanted 3D games in 5th gen
But I didn't say no one wanted 3D games. Wanting both 2D games and 3D games isn't mutually exclusive.

>>8702372
>But I didn't say no one wanted 3D games.
Correction, you said it was execs that forced 3D games over 2D games, when it's less black and white than that.

> Wanting both 2D games and 3D games isn't mutually exclusive.
Of course, but many games profited less staying 2D compared to their 3D entries/competitors.

>>8702327
The problem with 5th gen wasn't the jump to 3d, it was dragging along games that only work in 2d, instead of making new 3d IPs (which happened in 5th gen but didn't really take off until 6th gen) and making ultimate versions of 2d games. Not a single 2d Contra in 5th gen was a crime

Tendies get the rope

>>8702325
>only mentions Sega once in passing
>entire post was automatically written by a segalet
Obsessed

>>8700202
32x should have been the game gear's successor. Also keep it backwards compatible with genny carts.

>>8703068
I too am obsessed with the topic of the thread I post in.

>next gen system comes out with game that looks like it could run in the previous gen system
Why in the fuck do you think this would be beneficial? It would make people at the time think the Saturn was underpowered shit.
It needed a full on 3D Sonic game, period. Non-negotiable.

>>8698498
Playstation also launched with a bunch of shitty 2D games... Such as pic related.

>>8703186
Rayman was a beloved classic, it was not a shitty game.
>>8703175
>(S)He doesn't know how huge Sonic was back then.

>>8698469
Kek what a segasausage

>>8703186
Eat shit, homo

>>8703215
I wasn't insulting Rayman, I was implying 2D games aren't shitty and that shipping sonic 3 on Saturn would not necessarily be shitty.

But now that you have sperged out over it I'm just going to call Rayman shitty now. It's slooooow, slower than Mario. An absolute bore.

>>8703317
Sounds like skill deficit

>>8700261
you just copied this from a month or so old thread

>>8703186
Filtered. Kill yourself zoomcuck

>>8701991
>Removing Knuckles as a playable character would also take away a chunk of Sonic 3&K's replayability.
Honestly Sonic 3 just works for Sonic.
Maaaaybe, a Knuckles-exclusive game, designed around his abilities, could have worked. Chaotix didn't work, as it focused on the Sonic Crackers mechanic and not Knuckles'.
>How does Knuckles' backstory bother you that much?
It took away all the mystery, all the badassness. As soon as you confront him on Hidden Palace Zone in S&K, all his cool vanishes, he's such a pushover, and an idiot.
Knuckles should have remained a mysterious jackass who just wants to bother Sonic.
Imagine, just imagine, if Knuckles was never explained and we just know he's some rastafarian asshole and nothing else. Yes, I want that, and you do too, even if you can't admit it.

>>8702217
>my family was poor therefore everyone else's must be
The Saturn launching with the next mainline Sonic in 1994 would've sold consoles, period.

>>8703195
>>8703215
>>8704132
SEETHE

Playing Knuckles on your old Sonic games, and even bonus stages on completely different carts added a ton of replay value for 90s kids relying on their parents to buy everything. Saturn should have been BC with Genesis, then everybody would be happy (except Japan)

>>8704191
>Honestly Sonic 3 just works for Sonic
I gotta disagree. The exploration and new paths you can go through as Knuckles are cool, and I liked the changes made to the bossfights.
>Yes, I want that, and you do too, even if you can't admit it.
No, I don't. I like Knuckles being the lovable idiot that he is, it's part of why he's one of my favorite characters. I didn't really find him badass in Sonic 3 standalone in the first place, I just thought he was kind of annoying. Not to mention, he was actually revealed to be an idiot at Launch Base Zone.

>>8704753
>he was actually revealed to be an idiot at Launch Base Zone.
How? He just fell because of the robotnik launcher pad, but it wasn't revealed that he was played by Robotnik.
The new paths for Knuckles and the changes in bossfights are minimal and the game is still built around Sonic The Hedgehog, not Knuckles The Rastafarian.

The Stumbling Sirians

>>8704760
>How?
He stands on top of an unstable platform and punches your eggmobile to no effect. I always thought he looked like a massive idiot when he did that lol.
>The new paths for Knuckles and the changes in bossfights are minimal
The changes to the bossfights are minimal, but climbing and gliding through the stages changes a lot. The fact that he also has his own designated paths is a bonus.

I still don't get what this thread is about

>>8704878
This.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4z6S6SErYA

>>8704890
We REALLY needed a thread for this

Every time I read threads like this I figure out Sega might as well skip a generation and just straight-up release Dreamcast in 1997.

>>8705547
No, 3D was too major, NEC skipped 3D and they ended up became nothing but a chip supplier for Nintendo, only to be replaced with Samsung years later.

#1 Sonic wouldn’t have changed anything in Japan. It still would have been decently successful at launch due to virtua fighter and little else

#2 sonic 3 on the genesis didn’t even sell all that well all things considering. I believe that year it was being vastly outsold by the lion king and Aladdin (which had gotten a second best seller run)

In the same way that sonic CD wasn’t enough to sell a Sega CD and how sonic 3D blast wasn’t enough to sell the Saturn, I don’t think sonic 3 would have been all too much of a system pusher.
Almost undoubtedly Sega would muck it up somehow to try and make it more “next gen”
Be that new CD quality music, or cramming in bullshit pre rendered 3D sprites and a broken polygon rendered special stage.

It also likely wouldn’t be as big as S3&K ended up being either.
While true that space concerns of a single cartridge are out, you’re still working with the budget of sonic 3 alone.
Even without the rush it became with the McDonald’s deal, sonic 3 would not have had a good bit of the S&K content.
Most zones were planned at that point, but knuckles as a playable character wasn’t even considered until “oh shit we can’t finish this! What if we made a second game and then made them work together”

Without that solution, knuckles in S3 probably wouldn’t have happened. And of course that also means no knuckles in sonic 2.

As for music, we’d probably end up with unique tracks for some of the later levels done by MJ’s team who worked on the first half of the game.

Which sounds like a win, but remember it was their work on sonic&knuckles that landed them in the spot for sonic adventure.

Maybe in this alternate reality MJ would do adventure. But probably not because the other stuff was still going on at the time

>>8705547
Costs had to come down first.

>>8705598
Everything in Sonic & Knuckles will be in Saturn Sonic 3, sales would of also been better too.

Saturn 3D Blast sold poorly due to it's Genesis original and PC port, plus if there was only the Saturn version they would of used SOJ's soundtrack and not SOA's as the later would've never existed, that and 3D blast will be a real time 3D game and not a isosmotic 3D game.

The Sega CD was plagued with FMV games, getting rid of them and making the Sega CD super basic like the TG16CD was the only way to save it, that way Saturn gets Backwards compatibility with the Genesis (however VDP2 is removed to make way for the Genesis' hardware, while VDP1's quads are replaced with triangles to be more in line with the PS1).

Knuckles in Sonic 2 would've been a thing in Sonic Jam (Sonic 3 being replaced with Sonic CD, also the commercials are removed just to add in the red book audio to Sonic CD as well)

Anything to do with MJ will be scrubbed up by a November 1994 release due to what was going on with him in real life.

>>8705598
You are just as autistic as OP. Speak about pouring oil on the fire.

>>8698490
Releasing a proper Genny adaptor to the Saturn would not been feasible, they would had to make it a bulky 32x like piece of shit to make it work cause the saturn had no remants of the genny hardware as far as i know unlike the genesis which had the master system chips on its first 2 models, while the master system adaptor was only a cart/card pass trough.

Oh, and Saturn could not output the same resolution as the gennesis which used 320x240 and 256x224

>>8705661
Replacing chips (mostly the VDP2 chip) was the only way to get backwards compatibility on the Saturn.
Saturn was mainly 320x240, it was the 256x224 mode thats the issue and that can be locked to Genesis mode only.

>>8698757
Who of the two just keeps making shit up?

>>8705661
The two SH2 are more than fast enough to run 68000 emulation.
Factum.

t. C / C++ developer

>>8698817
Are you the new australia-kun or /co/'s Famicom, which your retarded delusions?

>>8698837
>arcade accurate TMNT on the Saturn

There, thats how you can tell this little retarded kid doesnt live in any reality, NOBODY GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE TURTLES BY THAT TIME AFTER 93, the Power Rangers who took their fame were started to loose audience as well by 95.

>>8705634
Costs should have been falling down by that point, assuming they chose to go with a nerfed Model 2 hardware base.

>>8705661
> unlike the genesis which had the master system chips on its first 2 models
Actually even the Model 3 Genesis has the Master System hardware in it. It has to have it as almost all Genesis games leverage that hardware. The Z80 is used to run the YM2612 in a lot of games, and a lot of games use the PSG chip as well. The Genesis VDP is effectively the Master System VDP with a new Genesis video mode added. So the Master System VDP is still there as well.

The reason the Genesis 3 doesn't work with the Power Base Converter is because the pins to enable Master system mode aren't hooked up.

>>8705712
No they're not, especially not while emulating the rest of the system. This is why all the Genesis games on Saturn are ports. Even the ones that include the Genesis ROMs on the disc are still ports, the ROM is just being used for data.

Now, doing a Genesis adapter might not actually be that crazy or expensive. By this time Sega already had the Genesis consolidated down to a single chip. So they could put that chip into a cartridge adapter and just send the Audio and Video out from the Genesis to the Saturn's AV Out and have the Saturn handle controller I/O. I believe both the Cart port and the MPEG Expansion port have the ability to just pipe an A/V signal straight to A/V out bypassing most of the system.

So that could be doable for just Genesis compatibility, adding 32X and Sega CD compatibility would be a bit more tricky. Sega CD would require it's additional hardware in said adapter, and then just use the Saturn for the disc drive and controller ports. 32X might be able to do something where it sets the Saturn into some mode where the SH-2s and RAM get set up in a way to mimic the 32X, but no idea if that's really possible.

>>8705712
Explain Sonic Jam then (built from the ground up because the Saturn wasn't powerful enough to emulate the Genesis).

>>8705813
Untalented devs. I could do it, but the compilers have improved in 20 years. I'm writing my own 3D engine on the Saturn atm.

>>8705808
Please inform yourself. I'm a more capable developer than you. Thank you.

>>8705842
I like to see your work then.

>>8705851
>>8705842
Prove it then. Sure you might get something working, but not fast enough to play Genesis games at full speed while still emulating the rest of the hardware.

>>8705858
>>8705861

Sorry, nor for nosy longnose foreigner. I write full speed 68000 emulator in SH2 asm. Good day.

t. Dr. Yoo byung hoon, University of Seoul

>>8705863
Let's see it then.

WTF even is this schizo thread???

>>8705661
>had no remants of the genny hardware
It had a 680000 CPU as its sound controller, exactly the same way the Mega Drive had a Z80 as a sound controller that doubled as the main CPU in Master System mode.

>>8706060
Yes, but you need more than that. The Genesis also has the Master System's sound chip and VDP included in it.

>>8698469
If it doesn't look as good as fucking Rayman, it flops, bad.

>>8698469
I'd imagine the game would have been much better. Smooth framerate, both 3 and Knuckles on one disc, probably would have even had some minor story additions and cutscenes (but the characters wouldn't have spoke). Possibly we would have even got more zones to play in and maybe even something more than just the blue sphere mini game.

I am honestly sure it would have been an even better game.

>>8703175
I'm sure if it was delayed for Saturn it would have gotten a bump in visuals. This would have been great to me.

>>8698469
Unless that also somehow cures the schism between SOA and SOJ precious to bugger all.

>>8706936
They make it look better to take advantage of the Saturn (richer color pallet).

>>8698469
ime a lot of kids missed S3+K entirely, or at least didnt have the "full game" in its lock-on state, so prolly not much

i guess it would look nicer
that would be cool. S3+K was already a very pretty game

its funny how this game got lost in the sauce over time due to normalfags being afraid of emulation
its been in legal hell for several decades due to its OST

>>8707809
Normies eat up emulation and flash carts like theres no tomorrow, it's why they're supporting Ukraine and not Russia; Everdrives come from Ukraine.

>>8707865
4chins contrarianism has shattered your mind

>>8707865
You sound unhinged

>>8707082
>minor story additions and cutscenes (but the characters wouldn't have spoke)
Pretty much the animated FMVs from Sonic CD, except maybe 1 after every two Zones (so there would be a mix of in-engine mimed cutscenes and animated FMVs)

No, Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles comes out as normal. But it would probably have been a good idea to ship a Saturn version during the launch that combines the two and maybe adds a few more bells and whistles, like with Sonic 3D Blast.

>>8708379
No, just Saturn.

>>8706016
sega lost and is in the shitter
and the furries are salty about it.

>>8700529
lets hope the manchild farms dry up

>>8710812
and is entertainting

>>8710812
No, they aren't. The company runs a lot of other development studios and they do their regular publishing work. Sega-Sammy itself is financially pretty healthy. The merge only helped Sega.

>>8711242
Until Covid shown up.

>>8711957
Their arcade branch suffered greatly. But so did everyone else. Taito and the arcade branch of Namco closed down arcades as well.
Sega is doing their regular business as usual.

>>8712041
Konami shut down it's pachinko and mobile units (their last few mobile games were outsourced) as well because of Covid.
https://www.gonintendo.com/archives/349687-konami-releases-2021-announcement-of-executive-appointments-official-personnel

>>8710812
Still in business. https://sega.jp/
Making games as well as publishing them.
They killed off their arcades over the last few months.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmxFaCVYMCc
50 years in the arcade business seems like a good point to stop and reevaluate.

>>8712053
>>8712051
>>8712041
>>8711957
th th thanks china........

>>8700053
clockwork knight is awesome.

Didn't sonic 3 sell less then the other two?

>>8707865
>it's why they're supporting Russians and not Russians; Everdrives come from Russians.
If you think that Ukraine and Russia are different then your retarded and Westerner.

>>8712053
Even then, that's just owning arcade businesses, not making arcade games, if I remember correctly. They'll still make arcade games, but they sold their stock of the arcade-store business to the other company they partnered with in that venture.

>>8713298
>it's why they're supporting Ukraine and not Russia; Everdrives come from Ukraine.
This is after 1992.