/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8666848
really fun, very addicting, highly replayable and quotable.

Metal Gear (MSX) - 8/10
Metal Gear (NES) - 5/10
Snake's Revenge - 4/10
Metal Gear 2 - 9/10
Metal Gear Solid - 10/10
Metal Gear Solid: VR Missions - 8/10
Metal Gear: Ghost Babel - 8/10
Metal Gear Solid 2 - 10/10
Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes - 6/10
Metal Gear Solid 3 - 9/10

>>8666848
>we
We think it's pretty good.
We also think you're a giant faggot.

When Fukushima dissappeared and Hackima got his own studio it went to shit.

>>8666848
everything after 2 was a mistake, and 2 had problems of its own.

>Man, MGS4 should be a good one then.

>>8666848
Probably played way more than i should've.
It also turned me into a gunfag.
I riked it. 10/10

Massive MGSfag here. MGS3 is where it should've ended, literally. No other MGS games should've been made past MGS3, maybe the Acid games since they're a meme spin off and harmless. MGS2's ending would've wrapped the series nicely and MGS3 would just serve as a origins story of sorts with expanded mechanics and the series would have remained one of the greats.

What was his fucking problem?

>>8667098
He couldn't help but filter normies

>>8666848
Metal Gear 1 is okay. Metal Gear 2 is awesome for its day. The main Solid games are great at worst and practically masterpieces at best.

>>8667074
Like you say, MGS2's ending is perfect as is. We didn't need a game where we literally went into the server room and shut the Patriots down. Just knowing about their true nature and why they came to be was enough.

>>8667098
>sent to kill snake
>uses non lethal rounds

>>8667147
Even the post credit dialogue in MGS2 is unnecessary. Keeping it an unexplained shadowy cabal not only is only true to life but it just ties into not spelling shit out for you theme of the game. The fact that MGS2 is so uncertain until the very end is brilliant,
and then everything afterwards did all it could to undo it, to a point where I even start to question if 2 was accidentally brilliant. The only thing past MGS2 that has been made clear is that Kojima is a cuckold hack who desperately wanted to enter Jewllywood.

>>8666848
MGS3 was a disappointment for me. I prefer the late 90s/early 00s thriller aesthetic of MGS1/2. Also, the original release had broken radio conversations that stuttered and skipped constantly which forced me to stop playing it until Subsistence was released.

>>8667169
the original is so weird with its camera
i identify mgs3 with its subsistence camera so much that the original looks like a shitty beta

>>8666848
I think MGS is a 6/10, MGS2 is a 7/10, and MGS3 is a 9.5/10
This isn't even necessarily about the gameplay, I think the faster-paced style of the first two games can be very satisfying. But MGS3 has much better PACING, where it will have long sections of gameplay unlike the first two games where you have very short sections of gameplay interrupted by very long cutscenes and non-stealth sections like bosses and gimmicks. MGS3 just has much more STEALTH. If there was a "classic" MGS that was paced like 3, it might be the best.

>>8666848
MGS 1 and 2 were amazing. I enjoyed 3 but I didn't find the jungle particularly interesting to be honest. I seem to be in a small minority though.

>>8667098
>play something else for a week
>he just fucking dies
E Z P Z

3 was good but too easy. You can cheese the entire game by lying prone in the grass and there will always be a camo that gives you 90%, then you just have to tranq the guards one by one and waltz through the area.

>>8667169
>Also, the original release had broken radio conversations that stuttered and skipped constantly which forced me to stop playing it until Subsistence was released.
Your disc was fucked anon.

>>8667060
>Probably played way more than i should've.
Me too.
The problem is I can't go back and play again because I played it too fucking much. Every area, enemy patrol patterns and boss encounters are literally part of my brain forever.
I need a memory eraser asap.

>>8667098
He wanted Snake to have the best designed boss fight of all time

>pick up LMG and try it out
>it's continuous fire from belt and Snake fucking yells while holding it
>unequip shirt, equip cigar, decide this is no longer a sneaking mission

>>8667497
Now this is what I call BASED

>>8667169
>Also, the original release had broken radio conversations that stuttered and skipped constantly which forced me to stop playing it until Subsistence was released.

No, anon. See >>8667302

>>8667160
Supposedly there was another guy, Kojimas script supervisor or something, who did a lot to steer to the story and did all of the deep military / political research for Kojima and he left I think after 3, which explains a lot.

>>8667147
>>8667160
To me, MGS1 was where it should have ended. Snake settles the last issues of his past and actually looks forward to living for once, which made for a nice clean finish to his character. Then we find out in 2 and 4 that it didn't last and Snake drank himself to near-oblivion before Otacon gave him work.

>>8666848
each metal gear instalment gets worse as the series goes. they could never recreate the masterpiece that was mgs1

>>8667817
2 is a great continuation of the Otacon ending. I don't remember it saying anything about him drinking his days away in that one, it seemed like him and Otacon pretty much instantly started working on exposing metal gear production and, eventually, trying to find the Patriots. 2 also made the excellent choice of portraying him as a legendary soldier so good you don't even get to control him.

4 is the one that shitted all over everything. I really prefer to think that game never existed. It was nice to get an actual timeline on how the Philosophers gave way to the AI Patriots, but the explanation was just okay and the resolution was shit. And making Snake age so fast is just so sad, plus revealing Meryl is actually still alive (I guess neither MGS ending was canon..) and then hooking her up with diarrhea soldier. So stupid.
The only okay thing was ending Ocelots story pretty nicely but his plan for the whole game was so retarded even that's tainted.

Is this the first game to use the 'banner' Konami logo?

>>8667997
The Meryl ending is canon. There's a cutscene in 2 where Snake references the infinite ammo bandana you get for saving Meryl and there's nothing that I'm aware of the contradicts it since Otacon survives in both endings.

>>8667034
Still leagues better than MGSV

>>8668125
Castlevania: Lament of Innocence came out the year before

>>8668158
Oh I thought Otakon died in the Meryl ending. Cool. 1-3 only with Meryl and Snake in a healthy relationship is my new head canon.
Maybe someday him and Raiden will take down those Patriots.

>>8668158
I think it does Deux Ex thing where both endings are canon. Meryl being alive wasn't really even certain till MGS 4 iirc

Do you guys think Rose at the end of MGS 2 was genuine or still fake? I like the ending more thinking she's still a patriot shill and Raiden continuing with her is a bittersweet ending where he's still chasing a life that's not meant for him instead of carving his own path free of the shackles. It makes sense when you consider that even as the simulation ended the patriots still had control over him and he ends up killing the guy who was trying to free every one of their control. The lyrics of can't say goodbye to yesterday also match this idea up pretty well. But what do you think? I think due to MGS 4 it's generally accepted that MGS 2 ended with that intent but I feel like it's a retcon and very ambiguous.

>>8666980
This is pretty much spot on, we can end the thread now.
Twin Snakes is at least deserving of a 7/10 though.

>>8668346
I'll take a turn blowing smoke out my ass and say 1 and 2 have a focus on the pathos of individuals ultimately overriding whatever schemes the puppet masters may or may not be pulling at a higher level. When Snake and Raiden faced Liquid and Solidus in sacred battle the puppet strings stopped mattering

>>8666980
I agree with this, except I haven't finished Ghost Babel and I'd give MGS3 an 8/10 at best.

>>8666980
I'd bump Metal Gear (MSX) down to a 7, it shouldn't have the same score as Ghost Babel, but otherwise I completely agree

>>8667997
I still say that MGS1 was the actual ending of the story, regardless of who survived at the end. Snake's life actually had a future free of Metal Gears and overall misery, but Kojima chose to throw it all out and put him back where he started.

>>8668328
In the Meryl ending, Otacon stays in the base trying to help. The base never gets bombed, so he survived.

I have this and 2 on xbox one but for some reason metal gear 1 isn't available on xbox a and my pc blew up (don't ask) and don't have money right now, do i need metal gear 1 to understand or enjoy the others?

>>8670519
Metal Gear 1 is a MSX game from the 80s. Metal Gear Solid, which is what you're talking about, is the third canon game in the series. And yes, you absolutely need to play Metal Gear Solid before you play Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3. You should also probably read up on Metal Gear 1 and 2 at the very least before you play Metal Gear Solid, but Metal Gear 2 is a fantastic game so they're worth playing

Metal Gear (MSX) - 7/10
Metal Gear (NES) - 3/10
Snake's Revenge - 3/10
Metal Gear 2 - 8/10
Metal Gear Solid - 10/10
Metal Gear Solid: VR Missions - 8/10
Metal Gear: Ghost Babel - 8/10
Metal Gear Solid 2 - 10/10
Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes - 6/10
Metal Gear Solid 3 - 10/10
Metal Gear Acid - 7/10
Metal Gear Acid 2 - 8/10
Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops - 6/10
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - 8/10
Metal Gear Online - 10/10 Please bring this the fuck back
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker - 8/10
Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance - 9/10
Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes - 10/10
Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain - 8/10
Metal Gear Survive - Haha/10

i wanted to like mgs3 because most of its ideas are great. having mgs be in a more wilderness setting had some cool implications. a lot of it just boils down to being solved by menuing though. i also found it less of a hassle to breeze through the game with more aggressive styles because the more open areas feel obnoxious to path out with the slow (slower than the previous games) stealth that they ask of you.

also, i hate to say it, but the story is really dry. it's paced only as poorly (or possibly not even as bad) as mgs2 but the over-the-top cinematic qualities and flair aren't there to keep you engaged. sure sometimes ocelot does something funny to wake you up but even things like that can be off-putting in their own way. diane simmons is a pretty original character but i have a hard time buying it to begin with, some big buff chick who's a romantic soviet double agent? just kind of gets tackier the more she speaks

>>8667368
I legit used to have a save for every major event/area like Groznyj Grad and Graniny Gorki. Hell, i even had a save file just for Guy Savage.

>>8667302
>>8667684
My disc is in mint condition. It's a known issue, anyway. You just don't remember because all you played is Subsistence which fixed the issue or you played the original PAL version which isn't affected.

>>8672210
And so were two of my Persona 4 discs.
>you don't re-
I didn't play subsistence until three years ago
>PAL ver-
I played MGS3 when I lived in America.

>>8671382
>Phantom Pain
>anything higher than a 5

>>8673921
Storywise it's a 5, Gameplay wise it's a 9, so I round up.

>>8674006
Eh, I don't entirely agree but I guess that's fair. The gameplay itself is really solid but the actual environments are really uninteresting and don't compliment it very well. If there were more than like three missions sneaking through bases and the writing wasn't the worst in the series (and being unfinished isn't an excuse because what's in the game is still garbage) then the game would be phenomenal

>>8671587
>for guy savage
Me too, wish that turned out as a real game, was so much fun, it's crazy how polished it is for a throw away dream segment that's super misable
>>8674006
It's even better with Infinite Heaven mod, infinite replayability.

>>8672447
Whatever the case, the issue is known to occur on the first print of the NTSC/NA version of the game.

>>8674141
That's why I can't give it a perfect score. it's arguably the best stealth game sandbox ever made, and even going loud has plenty of options.

But there's some specifics in design that hold it back, such as the entire base immediately going on alert once spotted, or a lot of the tools being overpowered and making the game too easy (Looking at you, Quiet.)

>>8668187
Without a doubt.

>>8674143
It was a Zone of the Enders 3 prototype apparently, not the 2012 bio mech one that was shown on tgs/e3, but a much earlier iteration of it.
>It's even better with Infinite Heaven mod, infinite replayability.
There is also a guy named JimLafleur14 that worked on a bunch of mods that replace the weird faux weapons with real ones.
picrel.

>>8666848
Never cared for kojima. I still respect it as classic.

>>8666980
The NES Metal Gear is overhated and Snake's Revenge is genuinely underrated.

>>8666980
MGS2 was a fucking joke, but everybody seems to like that game, now between 1 & 3 you have truthful masterpieces gems for two videogame generations. Xtremely fun and replayable, it has some awesome and entertaining moments.

First games are just regular "action" games, No idea about Ghost Babel or Portable Ops where you can play as Frank Jaeger, but Twin Snakes is with MGS2 the worst games of PS2 generation.

>>8667074
Maybe you are right, but you got to understand with demand it comes the offer, if some konami pachinko fag offers you money, you just go with any piece or garbage with the MGS mark, also fuck you MGS2 sucks ass.

>>8667098
too much diazepam

>>8667817
that game is so goddamn good that it was impossible to stop right there.

>>8668187
other way around, mgs5 redeemed the franchise

>>8675443
Damn, I never knew ZOE 3 had a prototype before the bio version, interesting stuff, wonder where they would've taken the story.
Thanks for sharing.

MGS1 is actually really fun to play to this day. The gameplay is so simplistic, it's stealth stripped down completely bare and it works great for the most part. Relying on the radar to spot enemies isn't great and going into FPV to scout for them does kind of fuck with the flow, if they had just added a movable camera (not a 3d camera) just one you could scroll the screen for enemies it would have been perfect.

Things I love about it:
- There are no non-lethal weapons
- Knocked out guards only stay down 10 or so seconds before they get back up
- The tight level design and close quarters sneaking means you're always on your toes, circumventing the guards by running inches close to them is waaay more fun than tranqing them from a distance
- no FPS means pretty much no two bosses play the same way

Something you either love or hate is the fact that MGS1,2 (and 3 but to a much lesser degree) is more paced around its story rather than gameplay, so in terms of story of course it makes sense that the initial infiltration would be where the game is at its most difficult, you have areas like the Heliport and the Hangar that are just way more in depth and fun to sneak around than some of the late game areas, so from a GAME point of you MGS1 has some bizarre pacing and balancing but it all comes together in a way that makes the whole experience feel special. Same can be said for 2, it has some pretty bizarre pacing but also a really good sense of variety because you're constantly doing new things.

>>8667074
More Big Boss MGS games after 3 could have been a worthwhile pursuit if they actually explored the Big Boss as a character, but instead they just do the same ending in every game, it feels so completely wasted. The series came full circle with 3, and then PW comes out and does the same ending again, and then V comes out and does the same ending again... It's so fucking dumb.

The prequel games are fucking worthless from a story perspective, they don't matter and they bring nothing meaningful to the series. Only 3 did

>>8666848
>MGS1
Genuinely great. Iconic for a reason.
>MGS2
A total piece of shit, huge blunder, absolute mistake. Completely fucked the MGS story. The only good part is that one speech about memes. Iconic for all the wrong reasons.
>MGS3
Tries to unfuck the MGS story after the damage MGS2 did. But the damage still lingers. Best in the series since MGS1. Marred by subpar voice acting and a boring cast of villains aside from Ocelot and Volgin. Not great but pretty okay.

>>8666980
I don't disagree with the majority of this, but if only they would have left the original dialog and cinematics alone for Twin Snakes... Kojima just had ro go fuck with it and make it sound cheesy as fuck. Can't say the original was some pinnacle of human philosophy but it was good. Not to mention the Otacon falling down the mountain slopes while trying to give Snake a heart to heart pep talk...

>>8676261
>MGS3
>Marred by subpar voice acting

>>8675563
Legitimately the worst game in the series aside from some of the weird spinoffs

>>8676727
I do not understand how you could ever like mgs4 except the first chapter
mgs5 has fun gameplay

>>8676743
5s gameplay isnt very good, it’s extremely repetitive and every mission is the same shit over and over. It feels good to play but they do so little with it that it’s hard to enjoy it

>>8666848
>This is now /vr/. What do we think of the series up to this point?
THIS GAEM IS AMAZING!!!!11111oneoneone

>>8666848
MGS1, 2 and 3 are 3 of my favorite games of all time. I have a hard time picking which of them is my favorite, but probably 1 on account of how great Shadow Moses is, and it has by far the best characters in the series.

>>8677328
idk you're probably playing the same way every time, never use the tranq in any mgs game other than 2 it's too overpowered and makes any game a snoozefest

>>8677678
You're kind of forced to use the fulton though, which trivializes stealth even more than the tranq does.
self imposed challenges are a meme you do when a game is poorly designed. It can be fun, but a game can't be praised because "well it'd be more fun to play if you just didn't use any of the mechanics or tools it gives you" like sure maybe it would but thats not the point.
There's also the fact that the game doesn't let you do the Weapons OSP thing, you are forced to to equip yourself before a mission, which is dumb.

>>8677698
>self imposed challenges are a meme you do when a game is poorly designed
you could make this same argument about mgs3 though, the game is way easier to run and gun than stealth it and stealthing it with the tranq is a complete joke, the game becomes a shooting gallery

I will admit that the scoring system in mgs5 is completely broken because you are not punished enough for alerts or kills
>There's also the fact that the game doesn't let you do the Weapons OSP thing
there are the subsistence missions which are osp only
I don't get why it doesn't let you deploy without a weapon but deploying with only the water pistol is a popular way of playing and is what I do

not denying the game has its faults but the open ended nature is a godsend for anyone who's a fan of mgs style gameplay

>>8677708
>but deploying with only the water pistol is a popular way of playing and is what I do
you can't even do that though if I recall correctly, you have to also equip a sidearm.

>>8666848
1 was a masterpiece
2 only ok and exhausting
3 was pretty good
Twin Snakes is also a masterpiece and for me the best remake fucking ever

I 100%'d VR Missions last year and I had a lot of fun with it. Playing as Gray Fox feels surprisingly good for how little of that content there is, they honestly should have done more with it, because its not like the missions you do get are dogshit, they actually are kind of fun, and could have been even better had they done more with the level design

MGS3 is my favorite in the series, but I do think a few of its special boss enemy unit are phoned-in, like knowing you have to fill out 6 robot master type themed bosses in the same vein as Foxhound or Dead Cell in the previous games. It's my only major complaint about how the game goes. The Pain and The Fury are absurd, goofy content, and The Fear completely generic, none of the 3 being particularly strongly connected to the story, interesting to fight or meaningful to Snake or The Boss's character arcs. They just fill a quota and obviously so. Comparatively I can only say Vulcan Raven from Foxhound was a quota-filling boss from MGS's bad guy special unit and no one else, it even had the great twist that you unknowingly killed Decoy Octopus.

The End, The Sorrow and The Boss are all some of the series best, though, and the fights against Ocelot, Volgin and the Shagohad are all good.

>>8679864
>none of the 3 being particularly strongly connected to the story, interesting to fight
strongly disagree there. The Fury is the best boss in the game after The End, and one of my favorite boss battles in the entire series.
He's not a very original boss in that he's basically a slightly different version of the Raven fight, but Raven is one of the best bosses in the series because its a boss where you have to use stealth against him, same can be said for The Fury.

The Pain and The Fear are weak though.

>>8678797
desu as good as some of the content was too much of it felt like a pointless, barebones tutorial for mgs1 instead of what you'd want, a challenge pack.

>>8676261
basically. MGS1 is still the peak IMO extremly well paced never feels dragged down by the codec unlike MGS2 MGS2 sacrificed a lot for the meta judging MGS3 is very hard yes the story is a return to the fun romp of MGS1 but there are two versions the initial one with fixed angles only and the third person one

>>8667260
>then you just have to tranq the guards one by one and waltz through the area.
On normal sure you won't have that many silencers on EE or E

>>8667743
You mean Fukushima? He was the guy who wrote a lot of the codec. Didn't really contribute to the overall script, IIRC. You can actually tell that he left when you play MGS4 the codec is worse in that, IMO.

>>8666848
The menus blow, and it's a little dry at the beginning, but it ratchets up pretty well by the 2nd half. The last good one.

>>8677908
Weird take.
>dude let's trivialize the original's gameplay with 2's first person aiming with no mitigation for it
>tacky cutscenes
>bland VO direction
>looks and runs worse than 2 despite the hardware and same engine, generally uglier models because westerners suck dick at 6th gen poly budgets
I'm overemphasizing the negative of course. It's 'fine', but I don't see much point in it outside of a rental back then or something to play after the PS1 version for difference spotting now.

to me MGS2 may have the best art design/direction of the PS2 era, and remains a favorite of all time for me.

I feel like it is sadly overlooked in that aspect. People seem to be wowed by the tanker but they don't pay much mind to the rest of the game. To me the Plant is a beautiful setting with some very specific and thought out color palette, the texture also gives it a very symmetrical kind of beauty to it, the areas sharp and clean which make the use of contrasting colors stand out more. The orange connecting bridges contrasted against the murky grey water below and the blue skies.

The youtube-essay era of fans will give endless praise to the story, but MGS2 is so much more than just "dude it predicted the internet" to me. It is all around a very artful game.

>>8667743
>>8680246
I still don't get why people still latch on the "Fukushima was the secret genius" meme when there's interview showing that he was just a glorified assistant.

>>8680403
that guy Super Bunnyhop also bought into that conspiracy which sadly probably lent some "credibility" to it.
It's nonsense. A lot of creatives peak early into their career, the fact that Kojima games would eventually get worse and worse writing doesn't have to mean that he must have had some secret genius writer by his side early on.
It's dumb, its extremely dumb.

>>8680382
I agree. That shimmery ethereal feel. Arsenal Gear's great too. Yoji Shinkawa is just something fucking else.

The music complements it very well too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iroXKdSqSPo

>>8680436
Norihiko Hibino's score for MGS2 is timeless. The Harry Gregson tracks by comparison sound like dated hollywood action flicks, it's sad that he is given all the praise for the MGS2 and 3 soundtracks when it was Hibino that made the best shit.

>>8680382
I can see a lot of people not liking the plant for looking very bland and repetitive. If you're not looking for the details or considering the art direction as a whole the game might come off looking like how a lot a less competently made games do (and maybe that's the intent, if you consider that it's supposed to be a simulation).

>>8680519
I don't think it looks bland, though. It has the best aesthetic out of any game in the series, barring maybe Shadow Moses.
It definitely doesn't visually pop like others do, it is way more understated than that, but still a fantastic looking setting.
Nothing about Big Shell, not a single one location in it reminds me of less competent and average games, every area looks like a great deal of love and attention was put into it, all while staying true to what that setting is. I guess you either love it or hate it, I can't say I'm surprised that people aren't exactly over the moon about a clean-up facility setting but to me Big Shell ranks in 2nd place as favorite setting in the series after Shadow Moses.

>>8680382
I love all that meticulous detail.

Metal Gear Solid 3 was my favorite in the series. Before that, I only played MGS1 (I didn't finish it, but got pretty far in middle school school). After I beat MGS3, I went back and play (and finished) MGS1 and MGS2. So for, that I credit the game a lot. Subsistence is by far, my favorite MGS game. I really thought the downloaded camo feature was a nice touch. MGS Online didn't hurt as well

>>8680382
>The youtube-essay era of fans will give endless praise to the story
the original fans do that to, rightly.

>>8680412
>>8680403
I think I may have heard it from bunnyhop, it was some YouTuber, but I didn't take it as the guy was the secret genius but more like the high quality came from the interplay between the two. Collaboration is a sadly neglected factor in artistic endeavors and two people can come up with something far better than either is capable of alone. Simon Pegg and Edgar Wright for example made masterpieces together but have become pretty mediocre on their own.

>>8666848
>MG - Metal Gear Solid Beta
>MG:SS - Metal Gear Solid
>MGS - Metal Gear Solid Remastered
>MGS2 - Metal Gear Solid Remixed
>MGS:TTS - Metal Gear Solid Remixed (Remastered)
>MGS3 - Metal Gear Solid Revised

No wonder kojima hates MGS he had to make the same fucking game ten times by now

>>8667098
>What was his fucking problem?
He was the only one who actually didn't have a fucking problem.

>>8680463
he took the goofy ass original incarnation of the mgs theme and turned it into the classic, you've got a point about Hibino but show some respect.

>>8681592
Gregson definitely made some great themes for the games so you're right, so maybe I shouldn't be so critical of his stuff. But quite a bit of his output does sound a lot more "generic hollywood" which you can hardly blame him for because that is exactly what Kojima wanted and why he was hired.
The Hibino tracks win every time though

>>8676743
>>8677678
MGSV is literally only fun if you go into every mission with no weapons and pick them up as you go. You shouldn't have to self-impose extreme handicaps for a game to be good, and even then every mission has the same generic irrelevant objectives

>>8678797
I have VR Missions but never played much of it. How's it compare to the MGS2 VR missions? I 100% all of them for Snake's default costume and stopped because I didn't feel like doing the same missions again like six more times as different characters. The sneaking missions were a lot of fun, but the first person shooting missions made me want to kill myself

>>8680382
I think Arsenal Gear is where the art direction really shines. Personally I think there are some other games with better art direction on PS2, mainly the SMT games, but the boss fight against all the MG RAYs is one of the coolest looking things I've seen in a game

>>8680403
>>8680412
>>8681560
Regardless of whether he was a glorified assistant or not, it's suspicious that the writing started dropping in quality the moment he left. I never interpreted it as "Fukushima is the true genius behind Metal Gear" either, I always thought of him as more of a filter. Kojima has some good ideas but also some pretty terrible ones, and giving him complete creative control means there's nothing to stop the bad ones from making it into the games

>>8682559
I had fun with 5 because I could run through missions in different ways and each presented a different type of challenge.
>the same generic irrelevant objectives
that's the whole series

>>8667098
Literally this >>8667491 in the story. He was old as fuck and wanted one more good fight before he died. He didn't have a personal vendetta against Snake, he wasn't insane, and he was only a fake defector anyway so he went non-lethal and would only let Snake pass if he was deemed worthy enough by actually winning the fight. Unlike The Pain and The Fear there's a decent amount of implied personality and reason to fight for The End, you just gotta draw the conclusions yourself because he's not important enough to anything for the game to spell it out

>>8682589
The only other games with mission-based gameplay are portable ops and peace walker. I didn't play much of portable ops but with peace walker at least the game had story relevancy with its missions and you'd get brought to a new area after the majority of them. MGSV has you going through the same areas over and over with shit like "blow up 3 tanks" or "assassinate this random NPC for no reason" every time with no plot progression as incentive for actually doing it

>>8667098
probably because I killed his bird
fucker deserved it after taking me all the way back to the jail

>>8682785
You should've proceeded to eat it in front of him

The MGS1 story is the best, so it’s the best game. MGS2 was an amazing use of the PS2 capabilities. Highly detailed game. MGS3 is the green version of it. It’s the same thing. MGS4 has a horrible story, but fun online. Have not played MGS5 cause MGS4 relationship scenes with Merrel and Johnny was so stupid. By the time you get to MGS4 you have the included encyclopedia and realize the plot is too convoluted to make any sense. MGS2 was enough.

>>8682581
>Regardless of whether he was a glorified assistant or not, it's suspicious that the writing started dropping in quality the moment he left.
I'm sure it had nothing to do with other factors, like how Kojima wrote himself into a corner in MGS2 or the fact that he wasn't really that motivated to do MGS4 in the first place.

>>8680368
1's gameplay was already trivial, once you raised the alarm you could just run to the next room and they forget all about you

>>8683530
That's only possible in a few rooms though, such as the Armory.

>>8680382
it aged like fine whine, love big shell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D41n7O0QlM

>This is now /vr/.

Technically, it's not really

>>8683347
3 wildly differs from 2 and I think (or hope) you know that. Much bigger alarm punish, camo system, CQC, hunger and wound management, scope/terrain differences. Not to say all those are straight upgrades either, there's something to 2's minimalism in gameplay and visuals. Come on, though. They ain't the same, nigga.

>>8675526
>MGS2 was a fucking joke

>>8683593
you mean technically it is

>>8683842
It was released on PS2 so it can't be retro, technically.

I wish they hadn't kept trying to one-up the metal gear as an ultimate weapon. It was already barely justified (slow, giant mech legs aren't all-terrain and certainly aren't conducive to stealth deployment, which was the point of being all-terrain to get those cloaked ballistic warheads launched from closer) but it kept getting more and more pointless from there and effectively can't keep the game's title relevant. Even the shagohod, which PRE-dates metal gear, outdoes it, because they just couldn't help themselves.

>>8683979
Yeah they only tried to do that up to MGS2 with Arsenal Gear.

>>8683992
I like how the Sahelanthropus from MGSV is so advanced, it looks almost like an orbital frame from Zone of the Enders.

Should I play the original ps2 version or ps3 edition that includes other titles?

>>8684813
PS2 version of Subsistence is the definite choice for me.

>>8680382
MGS2 feels like an alpha version of MGS3. Barebones game compared to 3.

I enjoy the survival aspect of MGS3.

>>8685119
I don't usually defend MGS2 but that's an unreasonable standard to weigh by. Everything is "barebones" compared to the amount of simulationist game mechanics running together in MGS3, including MGS, which you'd never say is an alpha of a game just for lacking 20 concurrent kinds of animal AI connecting into food, health, stamina and stealth mechanics simultaneously.

>>8683486
I mean yeah, but he seemed pretty enthusiastic to do MGSV and that game turned out to have the worst story in the series. I doubt all the cut content actually making it into the game would've saved that dumpster fire of retcons and empty promises

I'll give the Shagohod credit for at least looking primitive compared to a bipedal mech. ZEKE is literally just a vastly improved Metal Gear REX and Sahelanthropus is just REX with the ability to transform into an Evangelion mech. Even fucking Excelsius is more believable than Sahelanthropus, and at least it doesn't predate Metal Gear TX-55 and D

>>8685302
>Metal Gear TX-55 and D
Dr. Madnar pretty much had all his Metal Gear work retconned away and given to Otacon's family.

>>8685295
>that game turned out to have the worst story in the series.
Only a pleb hates MGSV's story. It's the best-written game in the series since MGS2.

>>8666848
Great. Even the NES games were palatable as a kid. What caused Kojima to develop such a boner for Big Boss though? There must be as many games about Big Boss as about Solid Snake.

>>8685565
Basically he had second thoughts about making Solid Snake into a clone, so he decided to focus more on Naked Snake, since it's a more natural character. MGS3 was basically a soft reboot of the series if you think about it.

>>8683856
use a different word instead of "retro" then

>>8685302
PW wa passable but the anachronism in V was actually awful. With all the anime mechas, iphones and shitty OC future guns, no part of the game actually feels like it takes place in the 80's

>>8685739
Personally, I didn't care that much about the anachronism in V. I much rather have a fun game that's a bit inconsistent than a boring game that's historically accurate. Who cares if the Sahelanthropus is more powerful than the TX-55! Do you really want a boss battle that is more boring than a static sprite from an MSX2 game?

>>8686093
>Who cares if the Sahelanthropus is more powerful than the TX-55!
Technically Sahel in the state it's in V can't work without Young Mantis levitating it around, so they actually put thought into that.

>>8685295
>>8685534
I'm pretty convinced people who hate on MGSV's story only hate it because they expected Kojima to fulfill their headcanon of Big Boss killing younglings with baby Gray Fox instead of an intelligent story about cultural imperialism and lost of identity.

Replaying MGS1 and trying to get Big Boss rank, I didn't remember it being so short. I remember the blast furnace giving me a lot of trouble but now I realise it's just a very small area that you only backtrack once for a few seconds (PAL key), in fact you backtrack only in two occasions in the whole game and once inside the tower building you never leave (there's a cardboard box C that allows you to travel between buildings which you'll probably never use).

Replaying MGS1 and trying to get Big Boss rank, I didn't remember it being so short. I remember the blast furnace giving me a lot of trouble but now I realise it's just a very small area that you only backtrack once for a few seconds (PAL key), in fact you backtrack only in two occasions in the whole game and once inside the tower building you never leave (there's a cardboard box C that allows you to travel to the previous buildings which you'll probably never use).

>>8687624
Is there a good guide on getting all the ranks?

>>8685565
idk if it happens with every writers but sometimes you change preferences when writing/fleshing out a new character, bb was pretty much a blank canvas with a great set up. The greatest soldier that ever lived and fell from grace. It's also set in the past, peak espionage times. No more near future tech and more limited tech but with that "sorta more advanced than irl" that mgs loves to do. It's also during the times he grew up in, so he probably knows it better, and he's a big fan of bond films, it's the perfect storm. He's also been working with Snake since the og mg, granted he fleshed him out more in mgs but my guess is he wanted something fresh, and since Raiden got backlash, BB felt like the next logical step, and maybe he wanted to retry the rookie and master thing again with BB and The Boss.
I think that's why he made Snake older in 4. Snake hit his peak at the end of mgs1, in 2 he was already legendary, perfect bad ass spy, there was nowhere to go except down, so making him older gave him more stuff to work with, small opening in that canvas that's already painted. It even delved deeper in his relationship problems in 4, the cool hero that always gets the girl but can't maintain a relationship, it had that father figure stuff with Raiden and Sunny. it also had some cool meta narrative, like Snake jumping over so many console generations finally getting to him, mgs fans getting older, kojima getting older. Old men fighting old wars with young people, passing the torch. sick of fighting and being out of date in a world that's moving faster than him as he grows older faster, Kojima wanting to put Snake to rest, and the franchise(though he says this every game), all that jazz. That time skip and aging opened up new possibilities, like BB did.
After that I think he just really wanted to dive deeper on BB's decent to madness, but I think something changed during PW's development, like he wanted to do something else with the franchise, and that led to V.

>>8687624
This has happened to me so many times when going back to old games after years without playing them. Areas feeling smaller than what I remembered, shit that felt like it took forever to get to was just right next to each other. I think the loading times gave the feeling of things being further away and future games getting more expansive makes you realize just how small the previous game worlds were. Like mini dioramas at times.

>>8666848
MGS 1, 2, and 3 were all great for different reasons. 4 is fun gameplay wise, but the story is fucktarded and should've never happened.

The tranq gun was the worst thing to happen to this series.

>>8666848
Series probably should have ended here tbqh or just waited until MGS5 for the next mainline game. Peace Walker as a handheld game was okay I suppose but its a very repetitive game. MGS4 was garbage, absolutely awful comedic trash.

>>8687980
I never used it outside of boss fights

>>8671382
>Metal Gear Solid - 10/10

Nostalgia goggles. Go replay the end of disk 2 and tell me the backtracking's not tedious

>get to Metal Gear hanger
>climb the scaffolding up and over Metal Gear
>take out the one guard
>get to control room
>oh no the key
>climb down the scaffolding
>get the key
>climb up the scaffolding
>take out the one guard
>use the key
>climb down the scaffolding
>freeze the key
>climb up the scaffolding
>take out the one guard
>use key
>climb down the scaffolding
>heat key
>climb up the scaffolding
>take out the one guard
>use key

Wow, such riveting gameplay! Yes, backtracking is a thing throughout the entire game to some extent but Jesus, that was 20 fucking minutes of just running in a loop.

Also I kinda hate the unskippable cutscene in the middle of the Rex fight, the cheesy lopsided mechanics of the Liquid fight and the wonky targeting in the chase segment. The end of MGS was a narrative rollercoaster that blew my mind the first time around but every time I play it again I'm reminded that it's more fun to play literally every other game in the series.

>>8688082
it really isn't tedious

>>8688085
I just did it yesterday, shit was tedious

>>8680382
Based. Love everything about MGS2. The boss fights and VR missions make it the best MGS imo. I can't believe we never got VR missions or something similar in 3 or 4.

Despite having been a fan of the series for over 20 years at this point, I still have not played Metal Gear or Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. I feel like I should at least play MG2

>>8688112
same but last month, game is excellent

>>8688082
In terms of setting all that shit is cool as fuck so it doesn't feel tedious at all, unless you look at it from a cold mechanical standpoint and you're replaying the game for just the gameplay alone.

Rex's Layer is one of the best moments in the game, the fact that you are forced to spend time in that area makes Rex a more intimidating boss because of how massive it is. Not to mention the god tier music is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaCcfpM4mFw

Freezing and warming the key is hardly riveting gameplay but the stakes at play makes up for it. So yes if you remove all the context around it all, the fact that the entire story has culminated to this big moment then yes the gameplay is pretty dull, but why would you ignore all that sutff? Why wouldn't you fully immerse yourself every time you play that game and go for optional codec calls and shit on your way.

>>8688870
Play Ghost Babel, it's like a more modern variant that'll help bridge that gap.

>>8666848
They do cinematic gaming right. The game parts actually feel like a game instead of feeling like you're just playing a movie. This is why Uncharted and The Last of Us are moviegames while Metal Gear Solid 2 is not, even though you probably get broken up by dialogue more in MGS2.

>>8667074
>MGS2's ending would've wrapped the series nicely
No it wouldn't have, it's a great ending for that game but nonconclusive as fuck.

>>8666848
1-3 all great. 3 is imo weaker than 2, didnt like how much time I had to spend messing around in menus.
4 is trash but worth playing for pic related section alone. Still get le epic goosebumps when the MGS1 credits song starts up.

>>8690182
playing 4 at the time of release was the most disappointed I had ever been by anything ever. Just making my way through the game and realizing it wasn't getting any better. But with time I've grown to appreciate aspects of 4 that I kind of isolate from the larger context of the franchise.
I've replayed 4 many times and I can pretty confidently say that I'll replay it again in the future at some point, there is something to it even if it a fucking giant fuck up of a game.

I always say this because it doesn't get enough praise for it, but MGS4 has absolute god tier sound design across the board

>>8690204
Its because the gameplay (what little it has) is absolutely peak of the series.

>>8690204
I actually played it and enjoyed it a lot at release, I thought the control scheme, weapon customisation and most of the early game was OK. But overall there wasn't enough stealth. The story was also just a gigantic clusterfuck (even by Kojima standards) with cutscenes that were unforgivably long, boring and expository.
Seems like Kojima then over-corrected with 5 by making the entire game stealth missions with hardly any story.

>>8686896
I don't really like it because it corrects a plothole that never really existed

>>8690267
You're truly didn't get subtext if you really think that the body double twist in MGSV was about "correcting a plot hole".

>>8690297
Nobody misses the point of that ending, it's Kojima making the player (You) a part of the series canon, it's a stupid ending to a stupid story. "You're Big Boss too :)"

I just wish these games knew how to convey their points concisely, because they definitely could have from an editing perspective. The storage space of the CD medium and ability to change for more meant that they weren't being constrained enough with editing if anything, and it just got more severe from there until MGS4 got critically lambasted for it.

>>8690320
So why do you think Kojima only wrote the plot twist "to correct a plot hole". That's just a naive way of viewing it.

>>8690204
4 was the first big slap to the face that entertainment media is only that.

>>8690182
>>8690204
>>8691056
MGS4 haters are so overdramatic.

>>8686093
Making the technology less advanced than Neon Genesis Evangelion doesn't automatically make a boring boss. The Shagohod was more fun to fight than most mech battles in the series.
>>8686896
>intelligent story about cultural imperialism and lost of identity.
"They burned down my village so I'm gonna make a super magic virus that kills you if you speak english so nobody in the entire world will speak english ever again, also I was the janitor cleaning up Snake's mess in MGS3 but I was off screen" is more retarded than anything in MGS4

>>8690267
>>8690297
>>8690320
Literally the inverse of the point being made with Raiden, which is stupid. "You, the GAMER, is also Big Boss!!!!!!!" is such a retarded thing to do

>>8687724
>>8690204
>>8691119
MGS4 really isn't as bad as people say. The gameplay to story ratio is ridiculous and a valid complaint, but a lot of the dumb stuff they did with the plot is vastly overblown. Meryl getting with Johnny is I think the only part I take serious issue with, but it's not like she should've gotten with Snake either. Also Old Snake definitely doesn't have the coolness factor of MGS1/2 Snake (which is ironic since I think old Big Boss is cooler than MGS3 Big Boss) but I also think he's the most interesting the character has ever been outside of a handful of conversations he has in MGS1

>>8691573
>"They burned down my village so I'm gonna make a super magic virus that kills you if you speak english so nobody in the entire world will speak english ever again, also I was the janitor cleaning up Snake's mess in MGS3 but I was off screen"
That's still a stronger motivation than most villains.

>>8691579
I thought it was a pretty clever sendoff to the series, even if your avatar ultimately ends up dying as a patsy in an 8-bit game.

>>8691119
>>8691593
Metal Gear Solid 4: The Movie: The Boring Game: The Awful Movie

>>8691593
I think mgs4 snake had potential but they really kept the agency just out of his grasp for the most part it seemed, like during his confrontation with Ocelot or BB, his character didn't get a single meaningful line of input, just sat their silently absorbing exposition.

>>8692971
>I can only write my opinions in lame memespeak.

>>8666848
MGS3 was the best game of the entire series. 2 and 4 were just a joke in the amount of cutscenes, if you want a movie put a dvd in instead. 1 was great at the time but too janky to really enjoy today.

>>8694123
MGS3 was just as bad with the cutscenes, and the gameplay was even more linear than MGS2 by almost constantly pushing you in a straight line.

>>8694123
I thought MGS3 has more cutscenes than MGS2.

>>8671382
>Metal Gear: Ghost Babel - 8/10
*9/10

>>8691593
The problem is the gameplay is barely used to its fullest, not counting the cutscenes and codec, the gameplay is constantly interrupted by shoot outs with pmcs and guerilla, guerillas constantly noticing you, pmcs constantly distracted, highly scripted meryl shootout with the frogs, more pmcs guerilla shoot outs in act 2, on rail section, tailing mission in act 3, another on rail section, human enemies replaced by robots in the sneaking part of shadow moses, last act in outer haven is super short and there's also not much room to experiment. Unlike cutscenes and codec, you can't skip this stuff to get to the meat of the game, because this is now the meat of the game.
You only really get to make the most of it on parts of the first half of the first act. MGS has always been about dropping you in an area and let the player run wild and experiment with the guards, 4 barely does that.
The worst part is, there's no VR missions, like 1 and 2.(Well besides the shooting range) All the resources went to MP.

>>8694358
no, 8 is correct

>>8692776
Liquid maybe. But not really Solidus, The Boss, or Ocelot

>>8666848
The Boss doesn't ever shut the fuck up, and having later games retcon the whole cast into worshiping her like a goddess really sours me on the whole thing.

Best in the series probably
Shit story from a hack
Babies first thief style gameplay

>>8694840
t. Razorfist

>>8694569
Nope, it's that good.

More cinematic Kojima shlock.

>>8694732
I just pretend the series ended with MGS4. Peace Walker adds nothing of substance and MGSV just retcons stuff that didn't need to be retconned

>>8695358
PW and V are alright for me. They're prequels, so it's not like they get to affect the games set later in the timeline that much.
>Oh no. The final boss in a constantly retconned 8-bit game is not the same guy we were led to believe he was.
Nobody whined when Solid Snake turned out to be a clone or they turned Master Miller into a white guy.

>>8667074
peace walker was good anon

>>8695915
if you're a retard, sure.

>>8690129
that was the fucking point you braindead nigger. how daft can you be? remove the post credit dialogue and that's it. MGS2 wasn't meant to give you a cookie cutter conclusive ending.

>>8695992
Care to elaborate why you hated it?

>>8696116
putting The Boss on a pedestal, undermining MGS3 characterization, stupid fucking singing metal gears, retarded coomerbait character, a lot of pointless missions, overall shit story

>>8696126
>putting The Boss on a pedestal
MGS4 did that first.
>undermining MGS3 characterization
What characterization? MGS3 ends with Big Boss being all emo over The Boss.
>stupid fucking singing metal gears
They're kinda cool.
>retarded coomerbait character
Paz is cute.
>a lot of pointless missions
You're not required to do them all, aside from the Zadornov missions.
>overall shit story
It was fun.

>>8696194
'no'

>>8696205
Noticed how you barely complained about anything gameplay-related.

>>8675459
Agreed. Those two are those had always been considered perfectly serviceable games when they came out. Then it started getting passed around that Kojima didn't like those games and somehow that disqualifies them. It's not like the original Metal Gear was some remarkable magnum opus of script writing or game design that only he could have made.

What's it going to be?
Loyalty to your country, or loyalty to me?
Your country, or your mentor?
Your mission, or your beliefs?
Your duty to your unit?

>>8697231
bosses are crappy mmo grindfests. The bite sized missions are mostly a reasonable concession on a portable console but they have the same problem V does in being repetitive and grindy.

>>8697310
Fuck you whore: I'm gonna save the world from the retards you helped prop up

>>8680368
TS is pretty fuckin hard on the hardest difficulty don't sell it short

>>8697443
Doc ock is a nerd

>>8667368
I feel you. I've fought The End so many times I know all his sniping spots and basically run him down like a dog. I still enjoy the mechanics but it's not suspenseful anymore.

Sometimes I blow him up on the pier outside the warehouse so I can have some lulz with the Ocelot unit instead but not like they're really a challenge wither.

>>8697310
Bruh neither of those things are morally upstanding. I'll bust Volgin's nuts because he's a psycho, simple as.

>>8697457
no it isn't, it's easy as fuck.

>>8698374
t. Never attempted a FOXHOUND run on Twin Snakes

>>8698391
lmao, fucking retard. only game where Foxhound replaces Big Boss is MGS3. I also have done it in every mainline MGS game, TS is by far the easiest one. you should go back to whatever shithole you came out of.

>>8698395
Touched a nerve, didn't I.

>>8698403
>I-i got blown the fuck out, didn't I
Yes.

>>8698395
>only game where Foxhound replaces Big Boss is MGS3.
Same difference.

>>8676494
>Kojima just had ro go fuck with it and make it sound cheesy as fuck.
Kojima wasn't even in charge of the cinematics

>>8697310
This is what I want from a remake, same exact game but just with new graphics. They used the same skeletons from mgs3 and just slapped the new grawfix, seeing young BB and youncelot in foxengine was a treat.
I think the only thing i'd fix in 3 in a remake is the camo switching. just make it so when equipping cbox you can switch camos while equipped. sorta like mgsv but without the wait time for a drop, and kinda like 4's octocamo.
You know how in mgs3 you can equip and unequip the suppressor? and in 4 you can change ammo types through the face buttons while highlighting a weapon, like that but with camo outfits, equip your most used camos to be in the box, and just switch on the fly.

>>8699948
I would love mgs3 with copy pasted mechanics and control schemes of MGS4.

>>8691119
full game could be enter in floppy disk
>lets put it in a blu ray and don't compress anything, also add full lenght movie cutscenes and shor films scenes.

>>8691119
mgs haters tend to be a little unhinged, not saying some mgs fans aren't either, but from what i've noticed, the more unhinged posters tend to be haters.

>>8702781
Kojima attracts so many unhinged people for some reason.

>>8676494
I thought I heard that the original voices were recorded in just some office where uncompressed they could hear traffic outside. So they had to redo all the voicework in an actual soundproofed studio for twin snakes.

>>8702787
trannies, femfucks and ideologues have no place in the translation business.

>>8667183
Even though MGS3 has more stealth than prior MGS games, its still not great. The stealth in the MGS series has always been clunky compared to Thief, Tenchu, Splinter Cell, and the good Hitman games.

I don't want to knock-down MGS. Its a great series. But the core stealth isn't great. Its decent at best.

>>8666980
This is very spot on. Though, I'd score Ghost Babel a bit higher.

>>8702839
Blaustein's twitter timeline is just him bitching about Kojima ghosting him every other day while still piggybacking on his association with MGS1. Makes me wonder if he was as much of an asshole when he worked with him and that's why he got ghosted.

>>8703035
>Blaustein was critical of the quality of acting in SH2
Not sure what the big deal is here. The acting in SH2 is fucking awful.

>>8702852
ghost babel's campaign is very bipolar, some good bits and a lot of tedious crap.

>>8666848
I'm working my way through the MGS games via emulators now. I've read that 3 is unplayable with a PS4 controller because of the pressure sensitive buttons. What's the best way to play it now?

>>8703118
The one castmember that got assigned a big melodramatic spot was able to pull it off, Guy Cihi in spite of being an amateur actor was perfect voice casting for James, a character in a semi fugue state, the rest of the characters were two literal retards and a 6 year old. It wasn't good but it didn't really need to be.

>>8696194
Not the anon you're responding to, but
>MGS4 did that first
Not to the extent of PW. MGS4 had the people she directly worked with (Big Boss and Zero, and to a slightly lesser extent the rest of MGS3's cast) putting her on a pedestal. PW introduces more characters that somehow apparently knew her personally designing AIs in her image to keep her alive. It's a bit much and takes MGS3 and 4's "wanting to carry out the will of the greatest soldier to ever live" and turns it into "a whole bunch of people idolized and worshipped her as a god to the point of desperately trying to keep her herself alive through AI rather than just keep her memory alive"

>>8704291
>PW introduces more characters that somehow apparently knew her personally
Strangelove and...

>>8704291
Agreed. The boss worship in PW was insufferable.

>>8704641
Pretty sure the only character who is gay for The Boss in Peace Walker was Dr. Strangelove, who was literally gay for The Boss.

MGS3 is the best one