/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8644565
Yes.

>Was the original Sonic the Hedgehog game ever good?
Yes
>Did it deserve a sequel?
Yes
>Is it really that much better than any of the other mascot platformers that came after?
Better than some, worse than others. I'd take Sonic over something like, say, Awesome Possum. But Rocket Knight Adventures is infinitely better than Sonic.

>>8644579
Fpbp. Sonic was the first platformer with a sense of speed. There is nothing on NES or SNES that captures that same feel. Chemical Plant Zone will forever remain one of my favourite stages in all video games.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the peak of video games.

>>8644651
It's actually worse than Sonic 2 similar to how SOR3 is worse than 2.

>>8644657
Incorrect.

>>8644565
>Was the original Sonic the Hedgehog game ever good?
Yes, well parts of it were. Green Hill, Star Light and parts of Spring Yard work well with Sonics gameplay mechanics. Marble and Labyrinth just grind things to a halt.

>Did it deserve a sequel?
Yes it iterated on what worked in the first game making it superior in pretty much every way.

>Is it really that much better than any of the other mascot platformers that came after?
Better than some of them. Mascot platformers were a dime a dozen back in the day with most being unremarkable and quickly forgotten about.

>>8644565
Playing this and trying to get all the chaos emeralds is both challenging and fun

How do you go fast in Sonic? I've never ever felt like it can be navigated particularly quickly, and it feels janky as fuck compared to Mario. What am I missing, bros?

>>8644736
>What am I missing, bros?
Skill

>>8644736
In the very first level you should move so fast you actually kill yourself by going too far below the screen. This isn't even hard to figure out

>>8644565
I was too young and without access to other games of the era, to be able to judge whether it was good for its time, but having gotten into the series with Jam, S1 is last on my list if I want to play one of the sprite-based games. It's just too clunky, and even makes CD more enticing. Hell, I'd play one of the terrible modern games, or Sonic R, long before wanting to play 1 again.
>Is it really that much better than any of the other mascot platformers that came after?
The simplicity, polish, and motivations of Sonic, are generally more appealing than anything else. Plus, the cartoony nature of other mascots is just cringe. Sonic's just a cool guy who wants to relax, but has to deal with some asshat who keeps trying to ruin everything, but without becoming equally villainous in the process. His morality resonates with me more than others.

>>8644736
don't fall for the going fast meme, sonic is about momentum platforming

>>8644902
Sonic doesn’t even know what it’s about.

>>8644902
This. Sonic is a fast character put in a situation where being fast is not the solution all the time. That is why the last levels are always full of platforming and tight spaces. Robotnik is putting Sonic in situations that Robotnik should have the edge.

>>8644745
Also protip if you want to play the games and get better. There are three routes you can take through most levels. Top most is easiest to get through. Middle is average. And the bottom is the hardest. If you want to go fast you try to stay as high up as possible and get good at those jumps.

>>8644565
yes yes and yes. its physics are unique to this day and its large wide-open levels felt completely new at the time and had much more polish than later imitators. it doesn't really have as much depth as mario but it has far more immediacy; it scratches a different itch that nothing else does.

>>8644565
Yes, it's great. I love Marble Zone.

>>8644565
no, it sucked as a platformer since it was too fast for precision and no instadeath mean you can just press forward until you start loosing into something and change course.

I only played 1 level as a kid and never touched it again

>>8645028
>I only played 1 level as a kid and never touched it again
Yes, that's obvious.

>>8644565
Platforming with ball logic is a fundamental upgrade to binary logic Mario and Megaman had

It's the Melee of platformers, far more exploitable and flexible gameplay wise than just being cold and limiting like the other games post that were.

>>8644565
OG Sonic was jawdroppingly exceptional in early 91. Extremely polished graphics for a console title. And it deserved a much better sequel than it actually got.

>28
>no instadeath
>What are spike glitch/pits/getting crushed
Can we just ban shitposters on the spot, please?

Anyways, I beleve Sonic's name was a blessing and a curse. Sonic is a great cool name for a character, but it's like "Flash" in the sense all nigbrained normies can only see "speed" and nothing else that could hint there's more to just that name that could be a element to give that character more nuience, like, for example, "the Hedgehog" in Sonic's name that would imply as a hedgehog he can roll up into a ball, which was the only possible way to actually GO FAST in Sonic 1. They removed this cap in Sonic 2/3K, but you still clearly rolled to gain speed and you could only gain speed from rolling down steep inclines, like in real life. The fact no one can play Sonic games is a testament of bad education over how real life physics even works.

Which to me, just shows how mentally retarded most Americans are considering they seem to struggle with this concept the most jarringly. But then again, most of the classic sonic fan games are American made, so maybe it's actually just Europoors that suck at understand Sonic's appeal. The Japs just don't care because it's not an RPG so they don't matter.

>>8644594
I always thought it was more the physics and momentum than actual speed. Holding the b button and running through some levels of super mario bros 3 gives a great sense of speed, but sonic used that speed and momentum to bounce around and jump higher and etc.

>>8644594
I unironically think that DKC is the Sonic of the SNES

>>8644691
This anon got it perfect, sonic is a great example of why video games are the only medium that really deserve sequels. There's actually something to innovate on. Sonic 2 took the best parts of sonic 1, added some new mechanics, and voila a great fucking game

It is very good and just compares unfavorably to Sonic 2/3 that are massively better.

I think if Sonic 2 never existed everyone would be gushing about how good Sonic 1 is.

>>8644565
>Was the original Sonic the Hedgehog game ever good?
Yes. It wasn't great like Super Mario Bros.. But it was good and deserved the success and sequels (16 bit) it got.

>>8644565
If you don't answer yes to all three questions, you haven't played enough platformers of the era to make a proper judgment.

>>8644565
The reason people shit on Sonic 1 nowadays is because Sonic 1 was a game made for a specific decade. By that I mean only people born in that time could appreciate and understand it. Its basically SMB1 but starting at the lategame with speedrunning in mind. Zoomers and alphas today grew up playing handholy modern games, so when they try this one they start complaining about the gameplay like >>8644736
>>8645028
these numbskulls over here. Ive seen many a YTber purposefully lie about the game like Billiam and die at specific parts on purpose to shit on the game. There is an industry of mockery cultivated online over the shitting of Sonic, predicated by journos like IGN and ecelebs like Egoraptor.

What was the first bad Sonic game?

>>8647394
yes

>>8646070
>>8646087
While Mario 3 does seem fast he is never able to out pace the screen like Sonic. And DKC us a great platformer but the only time it felt fast was when Diddy would build up momentum with his cartwheel attacks.

>>8647394
I owned this on Master System and it was not bad at all. Hang-glider was tricky to figure out though.

>>8644565
>Was the original Sonic the Hedgehog game ever good?
Yes.
>Did it deserve a sequel?
Of course.
>Is it really that much better than any of the other mascot platformers that came after?
Yes. Have you played Aero the Acro-Bat, Bubsy or Gex recently? Sonic 1 isn't amazing but it sure shits on those. Sonic 2 was better and then Sonic 3 was awesome and easily one of the best games on Genesis.

>>8644657
Correct

>>8644565
>Was the original Sonic the Hedgehog game ever good
It's a masterstroke of genius. Literally the best thing to happen to video games in 1991. A monumental achievement that saved its genre from perpetual mediocrity and propelled it into further excellence by inspiring other titles to include detailed physics engines. To any game minded person this moment right here is the moment you realize you're witnessing game design nirvana.

Let me put it this way, without Sonic there's no Mario 64. There's no Quake. There's no Fortnite for you zoomers.

>>8648128
I don't know why barely anyone notice how advanced the physics were at the time.

>>8648192
Game designers noticed and players did...even if they didn't say anything.

The thing that made the franchise so loved is the thing that's holding it back.

The appeal of the original Sonic games (if we ignore the appeal of the character designs themselves) is that you're zooming at great speeds through a large level along more or less preset paths. It's a thrill to revv Sonic up and watch him go and shoot past everything.
Further enjoyment is from finding secret areas and alternate paths to zoom through and so on.
But as an actual platformer it is lacking. The paths that you zoom through are very on-rails kind of gameplay. Whenever Sonic slows down, true to his name, he becomes sluggish and less appealing, essentially forcing the player to find these "golden paths" through the level.

In essence the actual "gameplay" is very limiting, but the presentation of what's going on is top notch.

This is why the games have been stagnant or even devolving ever since. Sonic was never about TRUE platforming, it was just trying to have you zoom past everything. And eventually players caught on and found this "gameplay" to be profoundly boring and limiting.

That's why Mario can still hold his own. Mario is about true platforming. Sonic on the other hand is just about the experience of going fast while essentially doing minimal "playing".

>>8648238
no one cares autist you're wrong btw

>>8648192
>I don't know why barely anyone notice how advanced the physics were at the time.
Kids had shit education.

>>8644565
Yes. Yes. Entirely opinion for if it was better, it has a heavy appeal to a certain age range so while Sonic may not be the best thing ever sometimes its the best thing in a moment in your life. Sonic has certainly had more staying power than any other animal mascot that I can think of.

Sonic 1 in a way had some of the most consistent level and boss design. No spin dash makes getting out of some areas if you lose momentum annoying, but overall its a solid game.

Sonic 2 improved a lot of it and spindash keeps the pace going. Has my favorite bonus levels. But a couple levels get a little auto compared to the first, largely chemical plant.

Sonic 3 and S&K have some the best music and best levels, but also some of the lamest. Can get a little visually cluttered, but if you took the best levels of both of them together in one game it would have made the ultimate Sonic.

CD I don't care for. The western soundtrack had too much record scratch clusterfuck to it and that clusterfuck was matched by some of the level design.

>Why Sonic the Hedgehog is 'incorrect' game design
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/27/why-sonic-the-hedgehog-incorrect-game-design

>>8648331
The bong says the game is a masterpiece though. It was just a clickbait title.

>>8648238
>zoom through
>on-rails
Any fucking person who says this shit about the original Sonic games have never fucking played any decent amount of time on any of them. Jesus fuck. It's as if I said fighting games have no appeal because all you do is mash buttons until the other fighter is defeated, or MGS is shit because all you do is watch a bunch of cutscenes and dick around in shit gameplay until -- oh wait, that's pretty fucking accurate.

>>8648365

The entire point of Sonic games is to go fast and the only way you can go fast is to follow on-rail paths where you can do that without getting interrupted.
That's the entire main gameplay loop.

>>8648376
Any fucking person who says this shit about the original Sonic games have never fucking played any decent amount of time on any of them.
Don't make me repeat myself again.

>>8644565
>Was the original Sonic the Hedgehog game ever good?

Yes.

>Did it deserve a sequel?

Yes.

>Is it really that much better than any of the other mascot platformers that came after?

Yes.

>>8648385

You can repeat yourself all you want, you're wrong every time. The point of the game is in the main characters name.

While I personally don't like the series much at all, the first game definitely had plenty going for it. It made a phenominal first impression, but it was lightning in a bottle. Sega really never knew where to take Sonic though, it's pretty clear to see. Not that Sega really gave Sonic Team the chance to, with how quickly and viciously Sonic was whored out.

Most of the popularity of Sonic, at the end of the day, comes down to the fact that Sega needed a mascot platformer to "match" Mario and Sonic was the best thing they had. While it was unique, it was never on the level of Mario, mainly because the game wasn't exactly trying to be Mario, but Sega execs and kids who didn't get a SNES needed it to be.

It's interesting to wonder how Sonic would've developed as a series had it been a multiplatform title instead. It probably would've gotten a sequel or two, maybe a spinoff game, but without being pushed so heavily as the face of a console, I doubt the series could've lasted to 3D.

I still don't understand how you're supposed to play the classic Sonic games. I've never really been able to just blast through a stage without stopping, and several zones in Sonic 1 seem to actively make this impossible by design.

>>8648376
Clearly, you're an idiot.

>>8648543
>I've never really been able to just blast through a stage without stopping
You're not supposed to. It's a platformer with elements of puzzle and elements of speed. You got duped by idiots who spread the reputation of HURR DURR THE NAME'S SONIC, SO IT'S ONLY ABOUT SPEED, GOTTA GO FAST AMIRITE

>>8648543
>I've never really been able to just blast through a stage without stopping
You have to know the stages to be able to do that. That's why they added the spindash in Sonic 2. People wanted to be able to go fast again quickly after being stopped by something and be able to go up ramps without having to run back if you didn't have enough momentum. I understand that keeping your momentum is part of the gameplay but adding the spindash was the right move because it makes the game much less frustrating for people who play it for the first time.

>>8647394
Shadow the Hedgehog.

>>8648565
>>8648585
I think I get it now, on top of the anon earlier in the thread who basically said the same thing I did. I'll give them all a serious go when (if?) Origins comes out.

>>8648376
>on-rail
You don't know what this word means or you're just misuseing the word itself. To be "on rails" means no input as the game plays itself
The classic games are made to speedrun through, WHEN YOU'RE GOOD AT GAMES IN GENERAL, not automatically go fast like temple run or those boost era games. You have to play the game at the pace you are capable at going, if you suck, take your fucking time and play the game slower until you get the hang of the nuances the game is suddenly telling you how to play.

The major people with zoomers is that they have no idea how to unthink the Marioism of platformers, when Sonic was suppose to reinvent the genre, SEGA decided it was smart to just completely abandon it with SA1 onward.

>>8648708
I love the Adventure games to death as experiences but the actual gameplay is some of the jankest shit I've ever seen. SA1 doesn't even feel finished.

>>8648750
>. SA1 doesn't even feel finished.
That's because it really isn't. Half of the intended content was gutted for not running well on the Dreamcast, and most of the rest of the game was rushed out the door afterwards.

>>8648758
Another one for the "What could have been" pile, then.

>>8648238
Nah. 16-bit Sonic is just a platformer. Gotta go fast is from the Sonic X cartoon. Speed is only part of the replay value because you can find new ways to beat levels using mechanics, bouncing off enemies and so on. I'll grant you there are a handful of levels that are a little on the auto side, but they are the exception not the rule. Chemical Plant zone, sure that can be kinda on rails, but its an unusual one.

>>8644565
1's good and 2's very good
>>8644651
>Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the peak of video games.
S3&K sucks. Get some taste, gaylord

Where were you when you realized Sonic CD was just a tech demo spinoff and not a true entry in the series?

>>8648834
Really, that's just true of any platformer. Or at least a well designed one. Getting good coincides with being able to beat levels fast, which feels satisfying.

>>8648834

Literally any Sonic level is about going fast and to facilitate that the level designs had "on rail" layouts.
Nobody is into Sonic to sluggishly move around at normal speeds and bonk robots like it's a Mario game.

>>8649972
I'm into Sonic because it's a competently constructed platformer, with good music and visuals, and a fun sense of rolling around like a ball with real physics. I don't feel like I have to be going fast all the time, or the game is doing something wrong.

>>8649972
I replayed the old games recently. I don't believe you've played them at all.
>>8649965
Yep exactly. Sonic just had a real focus on it in mind. So your first play through may be down one combination of paths but as you get you may launch yourself in the air bounce off three enemies and hit the goal super fast. Really smart level design in the games for it and I found myself appreciating that in a way I couldn't have as a kid.

>>8649948
Sonic CD was always a true entry in the original trilogy since it was directed and produced by the character designer of Sonic, Naoto Ooshima. He and the Japanese team simply took Naka's engine (with his permission and blessing unlike what happened with his bitchfit with the NiGHTS engine) and built upon Sonic 1.

>>8649972
Please, for the love of god, fuck off back to /v/ or /vg/ and stay in your modern trash already. It's fucking tiresome constantly having to explain the classic games are fundamentally different from Flash era Sonic.

>>8648192
We did. You roll through the first loop in Green Hill Zone and the game immediately felt unique compared to Mario or Alex Kidd.

>>8648128
It's really cool, but is it that ground breaking? I'm assuming there were games before that had semi-realistic ball physics. Marble Madness. Pinball games. Sonic just takes that and combines it with a platformer.

>>8650426
Sonics main influence is pinball. Nobody combined it with platforming yet. Sonic did this task you are seeking to attribute to anything else because ??? it broke the ground. It did the heavy lifting. You can't even point to an alternative.

>>8650438
I'm asking if it invented physics in video games.

>>8650450
Nope, but it was the first platformer with pinball physics and this led to designers all over rethinking how they approach games.

>>8650453
Yeah, I guess.

>>8648076
The mine cart levels were pretty fast. I wouldn't personally compare it to sonic though.

Alright ya fuckin modern morans, this is the best saanic game and if you disagree you’re a modern fuckin hentai quill moran

How did something as innovative, soulful, and well designed as Sonic turn into the biggest punchline in gaming?

>>8650767
Video game companies are pimps, and developers and the art behind the games themselves are bitches.

>>8650767
sonic's overall doing ok. the games just still have no consistent direction. still i think back to the saturn era when there weren't any mainline sonic titles at all.

>>8650767
Yuji Naka's stupid obsession with having to constantly reinvent Sonic, rather than just developing what works, which unfortunately seems to bled into all of Sonic Team.

>>8648076
>but the only time it felt fast was when Diddy would build up momentum with his cartwheel attacks.
Kinda unrelated to the statement, but to give DKC some credit I really do like the feature of being able to midair jump if you just barely run roll off from a ledge, I wish other platformers, even Sonic, had that feature as I think it's far more natural instead of the typical double jump.

In fact, even DKC had "badnik bouncing" in it and that was really fun to do in that game.

>>8650767
People that dislike what made Sonic a massive success and decide to trash it all to pander to his OC fanfiction ideas.

>>8651509
This reads like AI-generated garbage text and I can glean no meaning from it.

>>8651514
Funny, that's just how Japanese devs talk (laughs)

>>8651514
Japanese is a pretty awful language, you can't be extremely specific or have an articulate, complex rant. Shit sucks.

>>8644565
sonic 1 physics and speed were very impressive. something minor like uneven grass can alter your jump and the game legit has pinball physics...in a 2d platformer.
the first tile in sonic 1 is even slanted slightly to show this off. neutral jump sends you backwards a bit.

looking back today in comparison to other sonic games, sonic 1 looks great but the level layouts weren't equal in detail/paths.

>>8644594
Mario is faster than Sonic. This has been extensively proven and the science is settled.

>>8647394
either 3D Blast or Labyrinth

>>8651528
ive noticed thats probably why there is so much societal emphasis on "reading the room" in japan: explaining anything is almost a bothersome ordeal esp. when you are dealing with someone you percieve as lesser in rank

>>8651635
Leave matpat.

>>8651509
i think the what he's saying here is that he wanted to do his own thing with sonic but he still ended up feeling like his own independent thing

don't know why we're still bitching about the adventure games when the series has spent the last 16 years frantically avoiding anything about them at all costs and the games are worse off than ever for it

>>8647352
Maybe it's not a conspiracy and the game just isn't that great

>>8653043
Not really though. The fundamental design of Sonic is still based on Adventure. Straight forward "rollercoaster" style levels, and homing attack based gameplay. They have never fundamentally rethought any of that.

>>8653205
the modern games aren't even in 3d half the time. >muh straight forward "rollercoaster" style levels
ok so sonic 2 is an adventure game now. the levels just being more linear was never really the problem. not to mention sa1 hardly even had the issue and the games have only gotten worse with it and as time's gone on and the series has gotten further from sa1

>>8653232
So you use homing attacks from a 2D perspective, rather than using them in a cramped tunnel of a stage. That's still the primary mechanic that gameplay is built around.

>>8653307
the homing attack made up maybe like %1 of overall adventure gameplay
not even tails being playable in any of the recent game sure as shit isn't because of influence from the adventure games. almost like they aren't an influence anymore and any ideas from them the modern games do use is just a copout in lieu of no better ideas, such as the homing attack

guarantee all the faggots crying about the homing attack would just be crying about how hard it is to jump on enemies in 3d in the timeline where we didn't get it

>>8653367
That's not the point. The point is that has been the the basic mechanic of Sonic games since Adventure, so to say that the games have abandoned the design of adventure just doesn't hold up.
Plus, the character designs are all rooted to Sonic Adventure. The constant interruption of cutscenes and dialogue is Sonic Adventure. A 3D Sonic that really swore off Sonic Adventure and fundamentally rethought what 3D Sonic was would look more like Robo Blast 2.

>>8653381
>so to say that the games have abandoned the design of adventure just doesn't hold up.
the homing attack is just an inherent compensation for better 3d movement. it would probably be a thing in the games if either adventure game didn't exist at all. its like saying the modern games are just like the adventure games because sonic's eyes are green. its an insulary design decision they would have made anyway. anything actually unique from the adventure games is flat out missing because people sega is positively terrified of people like you who will just immediately compare it to the worst of sonic 06 for having even anything resembling those elements
>muh robo blast 2
by far takes more gameplay influence from sa1 than any other sonic game. even has a form of muh ebil homing attack.

>>8653396
>its like saying the modern games are just like the adventure games because sonic's eyes are green
Yes, actually. That's one thing that reveals that Sega's idea of what Sonic is is still rooted in Adventure and not Sonic 1.
Robo Blast also doesn't have a homing attack, it has an air boost, which is unwieldy and risky to use because it doesn't lock on to anything.

>>8653410
every new sonic game is calk full of palmtrees and checkerboard patterns so therefore they are just as influenced by the classics as they are by adventure because sonic's eyes are green. fuck off.

They even bring back characters like Shadow and Silver semi-regularity. I don't see how people figure the Adventure era has somehow been glossed over.

>>8653424
So was Sonic Advance. That's what Sonic looks like.

>>8653427
>Shadow
bare bones dlc for forces nobody cared about and that's literally it
>Silver
fucking when? sonic and the black knight was 13 years ago

>>8653429
not really. advance 1's most nostalgia-pandering stage moreso evokes emerald coast than green hill zone. certainly much, MUCH less prominent than more recent examples

>>8653430
Silver is in Sonic Generations, not to mention all of those sports games, which I guess someone is playing.
So, the last official Sonic game had Shadow, and the third to last official Sonic game had Silver. Where is this great whitewashing? I don't perceive it.

>>8653439
ok i feel like i shouldn't have to say that the characters should be included in a more meaningful way than them just standing there in a cutscene or side mission. i don't even care if shadow or silver are playable necessarily. the former just carries the issue of the modern sonic games forcing you to only be able to play as sonic being that he's pretty much a sonic clone. not to mention was only even added post-release, probably as some kind of desperate pandering to adventure-era fans after none of them liked forces

>>8653448
Why though? Having the entire extended cast having some major story role in every game just bogs things down. Even Knuckles past a certain point feels like a hanger on. Knuckles doesn't need to be in every game. It's the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise, at the end of the day.

>>8653467
i don't care about story roles, i just want at least the option of more dynamic gameplay via different characters. especially if we're stuck with boost sonic where some more variety feels more important than ever.

>>8653481
In that case, it's better for the story to take a backseat, and just offer alternate characters as options, which would actually be getting back to something more akin to the classic games.

>>8653353
>>the homing attack made up maybe like %1 of overall adventure gameplay
I disagree with this massively, unless you're underselling this by using non Sonic/Shadow content

I mean, most of the time you don't really have to attack every single gun robot in SA2 or badnik in SA1, but people actively spam the fuck out of it to do the air dash that pushes Sonic forward free of charge or otherwise just to kill any badnik that comes your way because people naturally just want to use the easy kill enimy button since it's so abusable.

I know how people play these games. The HA is just one of those thigns that trvialized mooks in Sonic games because instead of actually thinking how to approuch them with skill to speedrun through the game, the game just makes it baby tier easy to avoid difficult gameplay at all. Usually, the only "challege" is just giving the mook spikes or a eletric shield that punishes the player with either all rings lost or insta death because it's 99% always over a pit, which both cases force the player to than counter this by just killing all momentum and waiting until they can actually proceed with the game. For ever bitching over how the classic games are unplayable because you constantly "have to slow down" the Adventure games are in my opinion, far FAR fucking worse at this since 90% of the game IS doing this shit ENCOURAGED by the devs themselves.

>>8653367
At least one takes skill to do and thus would be easily countered by "gut gud"

You literally can't say this with "automatic move to target free of control, the button".

>>8653396
>by far takes more gameplay influence from sa1 than any other sonic game. even has a form of muh ebil homing attack.
Ackchyually, the homing attack is a Sonic 3D Blast creation, but only exist as a power up shield, which Robo Blast 2 uses instead of the already given to you 24/7 Adventure HA.

>>8653430
>sonic and the black knight was 13 years ago
He was literally in your face in Sonic Forces, cope my man.

>>8648238
I swear to god if I see one more fucking post of some faggot who clearly barely plays Sonic games telling me Sonic is all about 'zooming at great speeds'

How on earth can you look at a Sonic game and decide the gameplay is very limited compared to most of the genre? Have you played another platformer in your life? What the fuck even is 'true platforming'? Is it the games you like?

Stuff like SRB2 even shows that kind of classic/physics design is not 'holding back' Sonic in any way for 3D and it completely works fine if you have competent game designed around it which unfortunately is far from a given at this point

>>8653610
oh wow he's standing there in a cutscene. just like sonic generations my favorite game about a picnic table cause it stood there in a cutscene

>>8653607
>ackchyually, the homing attack is a Sonic 3D Blast recreation
makes it even funnier that its naysayers are constantly shaking their fist at sa1. not to mention an even earlier form as a shield already existed in the 3&k fire shield

>>8653776
I think the difference is that the 3D Blast homing attack and fire shield are minor tools you occasionally use as opposed to the homing attack in SA1 which I think it is fair to say completely trivializes almost every challenge in the entire game

>>8653783
the entire game isn't a row of enemies above a pit

>>8653776
That's not a homing attack, and just by making it optional, it doesn't impact the game design in the same way. Shield based homing attack is a reward that you get to enjoy for as long as you can hold on to it, and for most of the game you aren't going to have it. Completely different thing.

>>8653847
adventure homing attack is also optional. even in situations where you "need" it a spin dash jump can also work.

>>8653761
>sonic and the black knight was 13 years ago
oh wow he's standing there in a cutscene. just like sonic generations my favorite game about a picnic table cause it stood there in a cutscene

>>8653878
i mean yeah i think that's valid but at least he was playable in the multiplayer iirc which is what i was referring to. really silver was a stupid example i didn't even bring up. 06 isn't even an adventure game and is only counted as so by people who don't like the adventure games. i would be satisfied with sonic advance 1's character variety which really isn't asking much but boost sonic can't even manage that.

>>8653789
>the entire game isn't a row of enemies above a pit

>>8653883
>but at least he was playable
And so is Gens thanks to mods
Stop needing validation from daddy SEGA for you to play as fictional rats in a video game.

>>8653883
Well, my idea of a good 3D Sonic is Robo Blast 2, which has six playable characters in the base game.
I was the Adventure games and their mentality that every character needs unique stages and gameplay and interlocking storylines that took this away from the series.

>>8653887
lmao git gud there's more to the game than that

>>8653902
>doesn't refute it
Cope

>>8653892
stop needing validation from daddy sega to take out a hyperspecific jumping mechanic you could easily just not use

>>8653908
Never said that, I just don't play modern shitnic games. Never have for about 15 years now, never will again.

>>8653906
it is a refutation. there's more to the game than that.

>>8653910
>he thinks he refuted it
Cope

Heh, very topical video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O37bOoQr65k

>>8644565
Was Sonic ever good?
Yes, for its time it had marvelous graphics and presented something that almost no one else on the market was doing at the time. It was innovative and was a massive marketing success. However in hindsight, games like dinamite headdy, rystar and rocket knight adventures were a lot more visually and technically impressive than Sonic 1. While its gimmick was great, the first game took off because everybody hopped into "Nintendo's only market competitor". Not really because it had something the market didnt. Sonic could have easily been replaced by any other SEGA mascot character and done pretty well if sold as the face of the company.
>Did it deserve a sequel?
Due to its popularity in the US? Absolutley. But if observed as a stand alone title with nothing behind it, I could easily imagine Sonic 1 going the way of Sega's other forgotten IP's.

>Is it better than other mascot characters that came after?
Thats a bit harder to answer. In the cases of blatant market shills, (like Bubzy, and Awsome Possum) its yes. However there are some decent diamonds in the rough that deserved a second chance at life, and some idea's I personally feel could have gone down a different avenue.

In conclusion, Sonic 1 is a good game. Its easy to see why some people have it as their number one. However I see it in the same vein as Mario 1. You have a great premise and gimmick, but there are some flaws that could be ironed out later down the line (looking at you Labrinth Zone). Just like you, there were dozens of conecpts that could have made it big. In making it, you killed off those dreams.

>>8653892
>Sonic
>fictional

>>8653967
meds, my guy

>>8653969
He spoke to me once, briefly. I don't expect you to believe me.

>>8653982
Go back to jail, Chris-chan .

>>8653969
Sonic the Hedgehog here, it's all real

>>8653969
>thinking about meds
ngmi clown

>>8644565
>Was the original Sonic the Hedgehog game ever good?
Yes very good even on its own merits assuming it never had a sequel.
>Did it deserve a sequel?
OFC it did.
>s it really that much better than any of the other mascot platformers that came after?
Well it was better than most of its era. Then its sequels were better imo than all of its era. In fact I would say S3&K combined is the best platformer of all time. Its my favorite at least. And you can enjoy it easily with one of those fan projects which is complete or air. Not sure which is better but yeah go with those.

>>8644565
>ALLLRIGHT LET'S GET DERN TO BRASS TACKS

just talk normally dude

>>8656550
autism