/vr/ - Retro Games

is there any startegic reason for using tank treads? most guides i read after finishing the game said that the quad legs are the best, but is there anything remarkable about reverse joints and tank treads? at least human legs had the fastest movement speed from the pieces i discovered

I got burnt on by the second ps1 title. After awhile the arena a.i felt like 9ball but worse

>>8648548
I could never get past how clunky/non-responsive the controls feel. Can you try to sell this game to someone like me? A non-believer? What makes it great? How did you get over the unresponsive controls? Is the first one the right one to play or what about the second one?

>>8648705
I like the controls. It gave the game a sense of weight and forced you to play methodically. You'd probably like AC4 more if you dislike how 1 feels. AC4 goes for a faster feel compared to the PS1 and PS2 games along with a more simplified control scheme.

>>8648719
AC2 on the PS2 was the one I tried hardest to get into. Did I make a mistake?

>>8648558
In later iterations (PS2 Era) you're looking at a better weight capacity to speed, lower energy drain and temps, whereas the chunky humanoid legs have worse speed for the weight capacity and if they approach tank level, they cost a fuckton, whereas treads are pretty cheap for what you're getting.
I tend to use them in the early game and load up a mech with a bunch of guns and ammo that I definitely do not need.
I forget how much that changed from PS1 to PS2 releases, if at all. So you should compare the statlines yourself and do some ratios to see if they're suitable for any purpose.
>>8648719
To expand on this a little, at least Nexus revamped the control scheme on PS2 to use both analog sticks by default. So you can go a bit further back than 4 to get a more fluid control scheme.

>>8648548
My favorite gun from all of these is the second rifle that Project Phantasma introduces. It stops the enemy AC on hit and fires reasonably fast, so sustained fire lets me lock down the opponent. It's relatively cost effective and lets me run a cheap rocket on my back and whatever missile I need without compromising booster speed with my weight.

Overall I try to keep weight down even with legs and use the booster types that are more powerful yet less efficient, the speed bursts make the AC very agile in a pinch and I'm not using energy weapons anyway.

AC1 I build far sturdier, going for the middleweight human legs that have the energy defense boost and relying on energy weapons like plasma cannon or if I'm feeling cheap, Kurosawa. The quad machine gun arms are basically unmatched in the first 3 games though and I had to rely on them for the final level of AC1 and MoA both. The ammo situation is just horrific.

>>8648548
I'm an old fan of the series. On the AOL message boards, we used to mail a VHS tape around and record our matches. You couldn't take screenshots from your console and no one had a digital camera, so this was the only way to demonstrate your building and fighting techniques.

>>8648685
A lot of people never discover the meta. While you certainly can beat the harder AIs with many builds, the best builds are ultra-lights that can fly forever and rely on your mastery of the controls. You position yourself in the AI's blind spot and wail on them.

>>8648705
Make a build that's more responsive. You can make extremely agile mecha.

>>8648754
2nd gen is the weakest imo

fucking incredibly based series. was reading an interview with a guy who was heavy into the Japanese competitive scene back in the day https://news.denfaminicogamer.jp/interview/220118a

>>8649104
Here's an example of a guy who only uses speed to stay in the top-ranking AI's blind spot. He doesn't even fly, which is interesting.
https://youtu.be/TdkrWw_hEvI

It's difficult to find good videos because so many people use Human Plus, which are special abilities given to you in the first Armored Core when you drop below -50000 credits. After that happens, the game takes pity on you and gives you a New Game+ with the addition of a superpower. You can do this 6 times to get a new power each time. These powers follow your save file, but they can only be acquired in the first game. I consider Human Plus to be cheating.

>>8648558
Humanoid legs are the best because, regardless of stats, in-game they provide the most maneuverability. Quads are the best on paper, but they increase your hitbox size and you'll never be able to juke around shots.

>>8649124
>I consider Human Plus to be cheating.
No one gives a shit. Your opinion isn't important. lol

>>8649213
Stuff like Human Plus is kinda annoying because it's like, yeah, I could see why some would consider it cheating, but then again it's just part of the game, it's not a gameshark code or some crap like that, so it's not technically a cheat. So you kinda feel bad if you use it, but you also feel silly if you don't, like "why should I make it harder if it doesn't make it more fun". I feel like they should have just made the game a little bit easier and not had human plus. Or better yet, include some kind of 'training mode' for beginner players that teaches you stuff in a streamlined way so that you can get better at the game if you are having a hard time getting used to it. One thing I like about the Armored Core series is how it expects you to figure things out by yourself, but I can see how that could be frustrating to some players, like, having to learn what the stats mean, getting used to the unusual controls etc.

>>8649225
When I said it's "cheating," I meant in the context of showing off on YouTube. Play the game alone however you life. I got H+ in former days, it was fun.

>>8649225
>Stuff like Human Plus is kinda annoying because it's like, yeah, I co-
Don't care, didn't read.

>>8649239
Oh, I didn't have a problem with your post like the guy who replied before me, I just felt like giving my own view on it, as it's something I've thought about before. I think some things about AC get unnecessary criticism, like the controls for example, but I could understand why somebody might not like H+, that's basically my point. Part of why I might choose to play with it enabled as opposed to not is this feeling of like, completionism or something, like wanting to have all possible upgrades, the same way you would want to have all parts by the end of the game, rather than just to make the game easier. So I think stuff like H+ can complicate things and create a divide among players, and it would be better if the game(s) didn't have it and just had a tutorial mode instead, seeing as the original intention of it was apparently to make the game more accessible.

>>8649335
>So I think stuff like H+ can complicate things and create a divide among players, and it would be better if the game(s) didn't have it and just had a tutorial mode instead, seeing as the original intention of it was apparently to make the game more accessible
That's stupid as fuck.

>>8649104
Points for being a true retro gamer. Mailing a vhs tape around is pretty gay but I’ll allow it.

This is OP again

when it comes to human plus in the 1st game, i only fell into debt at -30,000 credits. i restarted my game many times tryna reduce my losses, but if i died a few more times i sure i would have unlocked it. i love the idea, and it perfectly works in the story of the game. and as far as the controls, i like that you can be fast, but still unwieldy. in the beginning a player might be inclined to play with defensive parts, but as they begin to control the AC better, they can afford to be lighter and take more risks out maneuvering the opponent.

I own armored core 3 and the expansion pack for 2, i'm going to play whichever game is cheaper for me to find, but something tells me to save armored core 2 until i am better at the game in general. i am a lil scared of the difficulty.

thank you guys i love this thread

>>8649124
Correct opinion. H+ is a sad way to play the game and everyone should be able to win without sinking to -50k in lost missions over and over, huge waste of time.

>>8649225
The game does have the garage test and it's actually pretty good training because you just tweak your machine until it clears that test to your satisfaction - if it wasn't frustrating or arduous, your robot is most likely fine for taking on any real missions but the most challenging. The enemies even jump annoyingly to let you make sure your AC is capable of dealing with full ranges of situations.

The only thing it can't make sure you're ready for is ammo shortage on missions. Those, a new player just has to experience at least once and then build against that going forward. It helps that any mission that will do that to them can have a lot of its obstacles cleared by just carrying small rockets.

Armored Core playing anons, what color patterns are the best?

>>8650242
If you don't autistically color your mech manually, what are you doing?

>>8648705

I like the controls as well. Like it's been said, it does give you a sense of weight and that you are controlling a giant, heavy mech. It takes some time getting used to, so I would recommend just allowing youself to - well - get used to them. Once you've warmed up to the controls, I bet you'll start liking them as well.

>>8650312
Anyone who has gone through at least half the game knows that being "clunky/non-responsive" is just part of using the starter parts. Part of what makes Armored Core great is the excellent progression.

>>8649104
>2nd gen is the weakest imo
WRONG

>>8650518
Mecha are a lot slower in 2nd

>>8650242
Enter battle in a plaid AC to make sure nobody takes things too seriously.

>>8649691
>i am a lil scared of the difficulty.
Every single other PS1/PS2 AC game looks easy when you play Last Raven.

>>8650208
>Correct opinion
That's an oxymoron.

>>8650590
Last Raven is so punishing that the entire arena (full of a sketchy amount of H+ as normal except H+ is unobtainable for you) is the easy part of the game. I genuinely like most of the game system changes it makes, but the missions just give me fucking cancer. They're made to be puzzled out into the "correct" setup instead of to be approached in the way you choose to, and I think that's a great loss of appeal in a customization game.

>>8650617
I really do fucking hate how restrictive LR is when it comes to build creativity, now that you mention it.

>>8650598
back to peddit

>>8648754
>>8649104
AC2 is my favorite entry until you're near the end and suddenly got those guys who can jump around with plasma cannons strapped to their backs. Still a pretty awesome game especially that final level where you're going on this long trek up a satellite to fight Leos Klein.

>>8650629
It's such a great credit to the other games that you can build a different playstyle every time you replay imo.

>>8650696
I like all the AC games, but I don't really have a strong desire to return to AC2.

when i bought armored core 3, the shitty used game store also had nexus and i wanted to get it also. when i walked out the door and sat down at the food court i noticed the cd said "disc 2" i asked them to exchange it, and they didn't want to. they only wanted to guive bullshit store credit, but their selection was shite. i seriously considered just accepting it and buying disc 1 online, but i acted like a shithead, demanded the owner and got my money back. even if AC nexus is a fun game, not gonna pay for ~50% of an experience

>>8650859
They literally sold you a product that wasn't what it was supposed to be and you couldn't use, I wouldn't feel bad about demanding money back.

>>8650460
You stop progressing halfway through the game. Your money could buy the best parts by that point, and your mech's turning speed is still miserable and clunky.

>>8650584
looks good :D

>>8651105
nah, new parts keep coming out and there are parts you can find in missions also

>>8648548
its actually one of my favorites of that entire series. great music, atmosphere, challenge, and the graphics are charming still (makes me feel like playing with gundams)

>>8649124
i love how the lore alludes to how human+ is like cheating, and how they rename it later to "OP-INTENSIFY" as in "OverPowered". it really does throw a lot of the balance out of the window with giving you a better radar, better speed, not needing to crouch to shoot back weapons, etc.

>>8651141
well akshully OP is just "Optional Part"

but still

>>8651141
Thing about OP-INTENSIFY is that you have to bust your ass to get the features. That and it takes up all slots, so you can't use any other optional parts. And in Silent Line, using OP-I decreases your defense.

>>8649396
In what way is it stupid? If the only point of H+ was to make the game more accessible (which we can reasonably assume) then it's pretty bad game design, because it's tempting to use, even for players that don't need it, and therefore makes the playing field uneven just by existing (some players will be using it and others won't, making it harder to compare gameplay, like the anon I was replying to said). I would also say that certain parts in the series are pretty unbalanced, like the linear cannon/CWX-LIC-10 in AC3, also the stealth extension part in that game that lets you jam enemy ACs lock on abilities; MEST-MX/CROW.

I do have much more experience with AC3 than the PSX games and AC2, didn't really play those that much, but yeah OP-Intensify is better than Human Plus IMO, for the reasons that >>8651358
mentioned.

>>8650235
Yeah, I agree with everything you've said, I just think some sort of tutorial mode to get people used to how the game works would have been good. I've tried to get people to play the AC games in the past and they just get put off instantly by the controls, the customization etc, they find it intimidating. It's like, everything that makes AC great is also something that you have to spend some time getting used to, and a lot of folks just don't have the patience nowadays. Everyone wants everything to play like some generic 3rd person shooter, it's a shame.

>>8650518
2nd gen is just AC2/AA right? AC2 had some great music, I think 3rd gen AC is the best though, so AC3 through to Last Raven. But LR is a bit too "artificial difficulty" it seems, judging by what most people say about it (I never played that one).

It seems that AC Nine Breaker doesn't get talked about much, is that one worth playing? What are some of the lesser known yet underrated titles in the series? I remember playing Formula Front on the PSP, and I actually really liked the concept, it was fun customizing my AC's AI and watching it battle in the arena. I kinda wouldn't mind if they made another game like that to be honest, although I do think being able to pilot the AC is more fun of course.

>>8649124
Human + is basically giving you the boss only abillities the AI gets to make up for being a dumbass AI.

>>8650242
You can't go wrong when you go for FREEDOM.

>>8653510
afaik only very few 1st gen ACs use H+

It only becomes common in AC3, but that gen normalizes H+ by making it a part, which is more balanced (still powerful).

>>8653541
Now I'm inspired to make a nazi AC

>>8653541
>that design
>Overweight
Best thing I've seen all week and with things how they are, I believe I can speak for the whole week despite it being Tuesday

>>8653509
>is that one worth playing?
No.

>>8651682
>In what way is it stupid? If the only point of H+ was to make the game more accessible (which we can reasonably assume) then it's pretty bad game design, because it's tem-
TL;DR

>>8653541
GOD BLESS

>>8653918
>No.
Why?

>>8653920
>TL;DR
What's funny is that the first part of the sentence you quoted is a simple question that you could just have attempted to answer. Again, in what way is it stupid? Are you mad because you thought I was bashing the use of H+ and that personally offends you? If anything, I was sort of defending the use of it. My god, the general level of discourse on this board is really terrible. You can't have any real discussion about anything here, it's like this: either you're wrong, and people take pleasure in pointing that out and calling you a retard or whatever, or worse; you're right, and then people are too intimidated to say anything back. The sad thing is, it actually is possible to have an exchange of information or debate without it being some sort of competition, but that concept is clearly not popular on here.

A nice touch is that in the final level of the 1st AC, if you lose, you don't get sent to the menu with a deduction in credits. you are shown a cut scene confirming your character's death from a pc screen. it is very ominous and i missed the normal voice prompt that says too much damage taken or whatever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALlqaYJ9ApE

>>8655126
The fact that Nineball spawns twice and even magnets up the escape shaft (that AI would otherwise have struggled to enter) makes it a serious ass-clenching final mission. I think the super nineball in MoA is the more climactic finish, but not as nerve-racking.

>>8655316
What an awesome series. I can't wait for AC6, haven't been this excited for a game in a looooong time.

Anyone know if the way popstarter/opl runs ps1 AC games is too janky. I barely got through the 9ball fight because of the frame issues and now the second title is having the same issue whenever I shoot something or get hit.
Its making fights impossible.

>>8657005
Sounds like you asked for it with that wack ass way of emulating.

>>8657089
I havent had a problem with popstarter or opl before and I like using my ps2.
No one really likes ps1 ac games and those that do run it on their pc so I can't find any fixes on my own.
I also don't want to put the discs in because I have to replace my 35000s laser and I cba.

>>8657143
>No one really likes ps1 ac games
Don't blame Armored Core

>>8657340
>Don't blame Armored Core
This lol, it's such a damn good series, one of the most underrated for sure. I do think we can blame From for getting a bit greedy with the Soulsborne games (basically putting 100% of their focus on those and leaving AC to rot for almost a decade).

It seems they are now redeeming themselves though; although one can't see much in the watermarked screenshots of AC6 that were released, it looks very PS2 era AC in terms of the mech designs (pic related).

>>8656367
>I can't wait for AC6, haven't been this excited for a game in a looooong time.
Same here, I hope that it brings more attention to the older games as well, maybe a bunch of Dark Souls fans will finally check out AC and give it a proper chance. Some people are worried that it's going to be "Armored Souls", but I doubt it, I think they will incorporate certain elements though and it's not such a bad idea to be honest. AC could do with being revitalized with some new elements (as long as it's not like the failed experiment that 5 and VD were).

>>8655054
>What's funny is that the first part of the sentence you quoted is a simple question that you could just have atte-
TL;DR

>>8659254
Truly hilarious, also you did read it, you just don't have a response worth typing out lol.

>>8659312
Okay, now reply again.

>>8659350
If you have some sort of psychological disorder that makes you need the (You) that badly, then okay, I guess I'll give you another one. Wouldn't want you to hurt yourself over this.

I don't enjoy being cruel, so I'll say this as well though, this is pretty sad. Me replying again, that's a victory for you? You want the last word that bad, and yet you never even made it clear what it was that I said that you took issue with in the first place?

>>8657340
I fucking loved ac1 through and through and was digging project phantasma up until this one arena fight where I can't get stable frames when I'm hit or firing. You did me dirty not posting the full quote either. Anyone I asked on /m/ told me to just emulate it.

>>8659378
Lmfao Now reply again.

>>8659427
kek sick emblem

Just look at all those guys quarreling over Human Plus like they're some sort of Human Minus

>>8659629
Quarreling, chief?

>>8653541
>overweight
kek

>love concept of mech vidya
>try game that looks fun
>it's really an autism activity box
every time
Why can't they just make a fun mech game without going full Omega Boost or convoluted faux-military naming scheme meta builds?
I can't be the only one who wants simple, comprehensive customization.

>>8660167
Play Wolf Fang

>>8660167
Frame Gride and Front Mission Gun Hazard are two games like what you're describing. The former is more based on arena combat, while the latter is a side scrolling action RPG, which I would recommend over Frame Gride unless you want to play something 3D.

>>8660167
u lack passion. a robot is supposed to be a representative of your personality, and if u cant even be bothered to test and customize it, you lack motivation.

>>8661453
Based. I play mecha/robot games because i fucking love robots. That dude's a casual faggot

>>8661453
>let me check my inventory
>AX-G107F4-3X5
>AX-Q4J509-DJF
>XA-5U6MA-D1C
>XA-F2F16-RED
>ZY-L1GMA-B4L
>ZY-W1452-7EH
>hmm
>hmmm...
>yes
>this will represent my passion nicely

>>8648548
The only good games in the series is 1 and 4.

>>8653541
President Michael Wilson is proud of you son!
>>8660167
Try the Gun Griffon games anon! They're pretty much in the middle of both cases. Also there is a really well made fan game you can download for free, here's the website if you wanna give it a go http://grape65535.jp/games/ggsim/
btw, there's an english manual in the website if you get stuck.
>>8660289
Gun Hazard is legit fucking amazing, wish more anons would talk about it.
Sequel never ever tho :(