/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8613661

Probably Tomb Raider.

>>8613661
Croc. The game Nintendo stole the idea from for SM64z It was going to be a game with Yoshi and then Miyamoto swiped the idea.

>>8613669
They pitched the game to Nintendo and then said they don’t like it or see the appeal in it, according to interviews by the devs. Only to show up at E3 a year or two later with 64.

Bug!

>>8613669
Croc came out after SM64 though

>>8613662
>>8613669
BEFORE SM64
SM64: 23 June 1996
TR: 25 October 1996
Croc: 29 September 1997

>>8613661
Virtua Fighter 2

>>8613680
Yes, because Nintendo had a bigger team and more resources. The prototype to Croc happened before Mario 64 even started development. I believe Nintendo also didn’t pay them for Star Fox 2 on the SNES.

>>8613661
Arcade is probably just being unfair, but those games aside: Descent, Mechwarrior 2, and King's Field were decent fully 3D and polygonal games.

>>8613685
a game that didnt even release?

>>8613696
Croc released but got delayed. It counts.

>>8613696
Oh you meant Star Fox? Yeah, when they asked to be paid for the work Nintendo dodged them and decided not to release the game even though it was finished and ready to be QA’d.

>>8613661
Duke Nukem 3D.
>b-but it's not true 3D
Don't care.

>>8613685
Are we not using release dates but instead when games allegedly started development now? Also the earliest prototype anyone has seen was released after SM64 came out. Ocarina of Time started development at the same time as SM64 so we might as well say it's the best game of 95,96, 97 and 98.

>>8613707
It’s the best game of all time according to Metacritic, so that would be fair. If just one person got to play the game, it existed even if not everyone got to enjoy it.

>>8613713
OP here.
The criteria is release date.
Don't give a fuck if someone made the greatest game of all time in their mum's basement and then passed away in their sleep, only for it to resurface 20 years later and still be considered a genre-defining earth-shattering success.
No release date before 23/06/1996, it doesn't exist.

>>8613661
Anything by Sega that was released in arcades. This is a really bad thread.

>>8613661
Quake 1

>>8613706
>>b-but it's not true 3D
>Don't care.

It may not use a polygon 3D engine, but it still plays like a 3D FPS. Still, really impressive use of a sector based engine. And honestly, one of my favourites too.

>>8613675
>Bug!

Good answer!

>>8613661
Descent (1995)
Runner-up: Virtual On: Cyber Troopers
And Mario 64 didn't do much to shake their placement.

>>8613661
Kill yourself.

To me, real 3D has to be designed around having 5 degrees of freedom.

Games like Star Fox, Virtua Fighter, or Bug may have 3D graphics, but they *aren't* actually 3D games. They're 2D games with 3D graphics. There's a big difference. There is a world apart between something like QUAKE and Maze War.

WEBM related is a real 3D game.

>>8613804
>>8613743
OP said no Doom clones.

>>8613808
What's even the point in talking about 3D games if you're not allowed to talk about the games that actually invented it?

Depends what you even mean by that. Best game, or game that utilised 3D in the most impressive way?
Putting aside Doom and Doom clones (which is the correct answer), the best game is probably some arcade game, like Virtua Cop, and the game that did the most with 3D was maybe Jumping Flash.

>>8613817
Doom is 2D.

>>8613846
I never got this.
You can go up stairs and lifts.
You can dodge a fireball by going under it.
How is that 2D?

>>8613857
Cacodemons can also gain altitude to enter windows high above the ground

>best 3D game before Mario 64
Mario 64 isn't good

Betrayal at Krondor or Tex Murphy: Under a Killing Moon

Possibly even Terminator: Future Shock

>>8613879
>it's a game journalist opinions suddenly matter when they agree with me episode

>>8613910
>the only game journalist that wasn't paid off by Nintendo or got brainwashed by years of shitty peer pressure/rose-tinted glasses nostalgia gives an actual fucking review of an objectively shit game
Your childhood is a lie, kid. Even back in the old days we didn't think shit games were somehow the best thing ever. If we did then fucking Atari VCS E.T. would be high up on every fucking Top 100 Games Ever list.
You know, like fucking shit Mario 64 is now.

>>8613857
Is A Link to the Past 3D? You can do that too.

>>8613919
He's literally complaining that the game is "childish". He's one of those morons who thought games needed to "grow up" in the 90's, because he played Carmageddon and thought it was the future.

>>8613879
>he can't walk in a straight line in SM64
Imagine how bad this guy is at video games.

>>8613857
You can go up stairs in many 2D games.

>>8613891
>Possibly even Terminator: Future Shock

I remember being in a computer store with my friend and he bought a copy of Terminator Future Shock for like $10.00. It was being sold at a discount price. I watched him play it on his parents Win 95 PC, and I remember being blown away by the 'large' 3D environments. It was a game that required the mouse and did use mouse look. My friend didn't even really know how to use the mouse to look.

>>8613924
LttP uses layers

>>8613808
You can't call it a doom clone when it's made by the doom team, by that logic doom 2 is a doom clone

>>8613857
No Z Axis, brother.

>>8613919
Trying too hard, but I'll give (you) what you're jonesing for, you little scamp.

>>8613987
I thought there was floor height in the engine?

>>8613924
I actually do think A Link to the Past is at least somewhat 3D.
So are isometric games like Congo Bongo and Double Dragon.
Of course, these aren't necessarily what most think of when you say "3D" though.
Need some sort of disqualifier - perhaps no overhead and isometric games?

Descent

>>8613661
Panzer dragoon

>>8613661
Jackie Chan.

>>8613879
>Finishing a sentence with "Next!"

Whoever wrote this review is one gigantic fucking loser and so are you for posting this.

>>8613661
Jumping Flash is pretty fun

>>8613743
Only the first episode is actually good and the remainder vary from okay to awful. Every single boss in the game is bad (of which there are two) and it has possibly the worst final boss I have ever seen in a game,. One of the most blatant 'lol we ran out of time' games I've ever seen.

>>8613672
I doubt the Croc proof-of-concept was nearly as polished as the final product, which is still very awkward to control. Nintendo probably saw a janky mess and thought “well this sucks, not worth putting money into” and that was the end of it.

Saying they “stole” the idea of Croc for Mario 64 is pretty baseless, considering many developers had been trying to do movement and jumping in a 3D or isometric space for years at that point. Considering the hardware of the N64, and how Mario was Nintendo’s star franchise, it logically follows that they’d want to lead off their new console with something that took advantage of its capabilities while having market appeal, and a 3D Mario was the way to do it. Super Mario 64, with all of its innovations to camera and control, would have happened with or without exposure to Argonaut’s early demo.

Descent

>>8613669
There is zero meaningful connection between Croc and SM64.

>>8614352
I guess they’re backtracking after Nintendo decided to release Star Fox 2 after all. In another interview or two they heavily imply they were disappointed and relatively upset about it and that “we may or may not know how much Croc influenced SM64”. They were promised a % on SF2 sales, so they were robbed of their time, opportunity cost, and possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars.

No one wants to hear it but Mario 64 was in a class of its own and groundbreaking as a home game and otherwise on release.
>one of the first 3D games with exploration and platforming as a priority instead of maze combat, an on rails experience, or sort of slight and arcadey gameplay loop in a small map
>analog control of a 3D character
>complicated, well crafted platforming moveset
>proper 3D acceleration with texture filtering, correct perspective, long environment (but not actor) draw distance, and effects done in hardware like the metal and portrait warp
I know. It may make some seethe, I love and acknowledge the early PS1 games and the PC pioneers like Descent too but we all know it's true.

>>8613931
That's something else on a notched fucking analog stick.

>>8614435
You collect stars to open doors its nothing special

>>8614448
To ignore everything else and deny its importance is pretty silly.

>>8614469
floating runner did it first so I just don't care

>>8613857
It's a purely semantic argument. Either they will go "oh, but it's still a projection on a 2D plane, therefore it's not 3D", which is by far the stupidest argument. Others claim it's because "the level layout is 2D over the X and Y axis" and they ignore that you can change the height of rooms (which would be Z). "yeah, but what about Wolfenstein 3D, there's no eight!", except there's one since you can tell the floor from ceiling apart. At this point, we might as well call all first-person racing games "2D" since the car is stuck to the road. Speaking of, the vast majority of FPS don't use the vertical axis and might as well be top-down shooters. If there's actual projection of depth, it's 3D. Parallax scrolling is not projection, it's a raster trick.

>>8614470
>floating runner
With mechanics half as good as Mario64, on an analog controller, with graphics that were previously limited to SGI workstations and arcade games prior? Don't be a fuckhead.

>>8614475
meh analog inputs are overrated, really fine tuned d-pad controls are all you need.

>>8614478
>[contrarian sharting]

>>8614480
here's a baby wipe my dirty baby boy now clean yourself up while the adults talk

>>8613804
>Games like Star Fox, Virtua Fighter, or Bug may have 3D graphics, but they *aren't* actually 3D games.
>Mario 64 wasn’t the first 3D game, but it might as well have been.
kys

>>8614483
Of its genre, and on hardware and a controller of its type? Kind of, as loathe as I am to justify this fruit's statement.

>>8614485
>when your entire world is Nintendo consoles

>>8614485
yeah it was like the first n64 game, tied with mahjong. So I guess that makes it the first game on its hardware sure congrats now go collect the star and go through the door dont let it hit you on the way out

>>8614487
Cite another 3D platformer with an analog controller, with essentially modern style hardware acceleration (this can't be understated, graphics of this time were unseen at home prior) before Mario 64, please. Jumping Flash was an arcade game missing all of the above, and fuck off with Floating Runner. Basically an overhead shooter. Not even close to the platforming controls or priority in M64. If Tomb Raider somehow came out sooner you MIGHT have something, but even that is so different with its tank style digital controls and it's more of a cinematic platformer.

>>8614518
Mario 64 is the first bing bing wahoo collectathon 3D jump n’ run. There you go.

>>8613661
Jumping Flash is the best non-FPS, non-flight sim I've played

>>8613931
thats pretty much a requirement to be a game journalist

>>8613684
baserino

>>8614319
I think it speaks of delusion on the part of Argonaut if they thought Nintendo weren't going to attempt a 3D Mario.

>>8613857
It's not 2D, you can drop into pits and you can't just back out of them, elevation matters to gameplay so it's 3D.

Did Jumping Flash come out before Mario 64? I had a lot of fun with that.

Considering how amazing and influential Mario 64 apparently is, it's amazing that more games didn't just straight up clone it.
There's more rip-offs of Crash Bandicoot than there are of Mario 64. Maybe it's just difficult to get those sorts of open levels right? Or maybe it's actually not that fun who knows

>>8615483
I believe I read somewhere PSX couldn't process open levels like in Mario 64. But N64 couldn't process as many textures. Like Crash Bandicoot is the way it is because the level has to be completely unloaded/loaded in as you progress through the level with that limited FOV/camera angle.

>>8615492
anon, spyro exists

>>8613857
>I never got this.
>You can go up stairs and lifts.
>You can dodge a fireball by going under it.
>How is that 2D?

the Build Engine is not polygonal. It uses some sort of BSD partitioning system like Doom, I don't know the details on how it works. But Doom and Duke Nukem 3D (and raycaster engines like Wiolf 3D) is that they last the ability to do real 3D space. Maps are designed by floor and ceiling height maps. Trying making a map in the Build Editor. The only way to make bridges and stuff are out of bill boarded sprites. These games don;t have a 'y-axis' and looking up and down is faked with screen skewering. Things like elevated areas are faked using portal-like tricks. The Build Engine uses a lot of crazy hacks to give the sensation of 3D. Meanwhile Quake is a 100% polygon 3D game. objects can overlap each other vertically, game has proper 360 degree movement. etc.

>>8615483
vexx was a mario 64 clone.
jak and spyro as well, to varying degrees. but they improved it and added their own spin
even vexx does some original stuff (the combat)

>>8613879
this triggered millions

>>8613857
>I never got this.
>You can go up stairs and lifts.
>You can dodge a fireball by going under it.
>How is that 2D?

the Build Engine is not polygonal. It uses some sort of BSD partitioning system like Doom, I don't know the details on how it works. But Doom and Duke Nukem 3D (and raycaster engines like Wiolf 3D) is that they lack the ability to do real 3D space. Maps are designed on a flat 2D grid and walls/ elvated areas are created from the floor and ceiling height maps. Try making a map in the Build Editor. The only way to make bridges and stuff are out of bill boarded sprites. These games don;t have a 'y-axis' and looking up and down is faked with screen skewering. Things like elevated areas are faked using portal-like tricks. The Build Engine uses a lot of crazy hacks to give the sensation of 3D. Meanwhile Quake is a 100% polygon 3D game. objects can overlap each other vertically, game has proper 360 degree movement. etc.

>>8613661

Starblade

>>8613661

>>8615508
Never played it other than for the PSX demo where you can ride the skateboard.

Is every single game fact these devs are spewing in YouTube videos false? Damn it.

>>8615483
>Considering how amazing and influential Mario 64 apparently is, it's amazing that more games didn't just straight up clone it.

Because it was hard. In order to do that back then you had to be very competent 3D developers with a big budget and there wasn't many. SM64 was so damn good and set the bar so high and required such specific hardware people didn't even try because they knew they would fail.

Jumping Flash

>>8613661
>No Doom-clones
Doom

>>8613661
DOOM
>no doom clones
its not a DOOM clone,its DOOM.

>>8616010
>>8616324
Original Doom is not a 3D game. It's a 2.5D game.

>>8616352
it has a Z-axis and theres nothing you can do about it.

>>8616360
*milks your prostate*

>>8613661
Wipeout

>>8613879
>can’t walk in a straight line
Oh no, he has the palsy...

>>8613661
I-Robot and some of Atari's later 3D arcades.

>>8613661
Geograph Seal for the X68000

>>8616352
You should have said graphically to be anywhere near correct, in which case it is graphically 100% 2D, and yet mechanically 3D. Elevation matters to gameplay, it's 3D, case solved.

>>8613661
Sex.

>>8616998
>I-Robot and some of Atari's later 3D arcades.
I-Robot came out in 1984 and used custom hardware, which was apparently very expensive for Atari to produce. In 1984, Atari was working on an arcade game for The Last Starfighter, which would have also used 3D polygon filled graphics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghjjeZpoKLI&t=375s

Plus in 1985, they had this prototype:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvYLCsmNKfE&t=27s

>>8613987
Any side scroller with parallax backgrounds is 3D by your definition.

Electro Cop for the Atari Lynx is crazy for a 1989 game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKc_QznAIJY

>>8615795
most claims of
>x isn't possible on hardware y
can safely be discarded, especially if x isn't a very specific technical detail

>>8613661

>>8613808
its not a clone, its literally the same devs.

>>8613661
>HARD MODE: No Doom-clones.
Lol?

>>8615492
It would be more accurate to say it's difficult to create vast 3D worlds on the Playstation that don't look like a wobbly mess.

>>8617743
Instead of integer jitter and texture warping you get low-res texture and Vaseline blur on everything. I’ll take the sharp textures.

>>8617767
You do you. But that's most likely why those games were way less prominent on the system than games that had very rigid fixed camera environments.

either Jimmy White Whirlwind Snooker or Faceball 2000

>>8617084

Sex had already been 2D since the invention of the printing press and so does not count

>>8617017
Elevation also matters to graphics you dummo, that's why you can see it when you look at the screen

>>8617809
Fixed camera games were common because nobody had any idea how to properly implement a free camera back then, and most devs got it wrong. It was much more straightforward to lock the camera in place.

>>8613661
Doom is NOT 3D.

>>8613706
What really matters is that the gameplay itself is three dimensional, which it is. Doom's too, for that matter.
They just use clever 2D to represent it.

>>8617847
Nigger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYGJQqhMN1U

>>8613879
>le contrarian opinion

>>8615546
Room over room, object over object isn't really relevant - Doom is a projection of a 2D plane onto a 3D one, because it's a projection it becomes a 3D space. The "tricks" effectively make it one - eg, an enemy standing on a higher cliff isn't visible because it's a 3D space. If it wasn't, there would be no height variation.

u guys realize there were hundreds of 3d games before mario 64 right? how dumb are the posters here my god

ultima underworld, virtua fighter 2, panzer dragoon, star wars tie fighter, ridge racer, fucking resident evil...cmon folks

>>8618472
did you even read the OP?

>>8613685
Mario 64 was made by 10 people auster

>>8613669
Why does /vr/ always try to downplay what Nintendo accomplished during this time period?
Is it contrarianism?

>>8619014
must be new here I take it

>>8613706
>b-but it's not true 3D
where exactly is the line drawn anyway? by certain metrics PSX isn't considered "truly" 3D either even though pretty much everyone accepts it as such. as far as I'm concerned if it lets you see things at any arbitrary angle using math to calculate how it's distorted/foreshortened, even if it's just the walls, it counts.

Little Big Adventure - which is better than Mario 64 anyway.

>>8613661
starfox

As many people have already stated, there are tons of 3D games on the PC that are miles above Mario 54. You fucking peasant.

>>8619056
lol

>>8619056
Maybe above Mario 54 but not Mario 64.

>>8619014
Companies like Data East hardly receive any praise here while trash luke Yoshis Island and Mario Sunshine gets a fuckton of praise as if they were great platformers.

>>8619014
well tbf this is a pretty contrarian website but in this case it's mostly just one guy with a vendetta for some reason
idk why he's not banned he spams the same shit on repeat and it's not like the jannies here are lenient

>>8619187
Yoshi's Island is better than anything Data East ever made.

>>8613661
SEGA AM2 games

Pilotwings 64

>>8613661
If you’re solely counting a polygonal character being controlled from a third person perspective, then there’s almost nothing. Yeah, Quake is 3D but first person is a cop out.

>>8619293
the correct answer

>>8613662
Why did Tomb Raider use that clunky grid-based movement system while Mario’s movement felt seamless?

Jumping Flash- technically an FPS but it sure as Hell wasn't a Doom clone. Quake is a bit unfair since it only came out within days/weeks of Mario 64.

>>8617010
>released only a couple months after Doom
Why isn't this game talked about more?

>>8619581
>Geograph Seal is a first-person mecha platform-shooter video game developed and published by Exact exclusively for the Sharp X68000 in Japan on March 12, 1994.

The end.

>>8618165
>Room over room, object over object isn't really relevant - Doom is a projection of a 2D plane onto a 3D one, because it's a projection it becomes a 3D space. The "tricks" effectively make it one - eg, an enemy standing on a higher cliff isn't visible because it's a 3D space. If it wasn't, there would be no height variation.

I'm not disagreeing with you that the effect still creates a 3D environment. I just mean that engines like Build and Doom have limitations compared to the alternative polygon engines. Everything is built on a flat grid, that is mirrored by the floor and ceiling. Things are built out of sectors. Multi-layer maps use tricks like teleprinters. Though, there are modern source ports that do convert the maps to polygons that adds y-axis when looking up and down.

>>8617835
It seems like every second N64 game was an attempt at some kind of big fully 3D experience, whether it was your gold standard Nintendo or Rare game, or something like Turok, Body Harvest or Superman 64.
The Playstation's bread and butter was the top down fixed camera kind of game. Which I'm not knocking. It's what the system was good at. Attempts at the N64 kind of experience, like say Soul Reaver, do end up looking a lot more awkward with the environments wobbling themselves to shit constantly.

>>8619548
Didn't that come out the same day as Mario 64? They're both launch games, right?

is there a configurable frontend for the pc sm64? i've built from scratch but i cant config it

Legend of the 7 Paladins.

>>8619937
>Didn't that come out the same day as Mario 64? They're both launch games, right?

yes, it was a launch game in all regions.

>>8619940
SM64Plus

>>8613987
> No Z Axis

>>8613669
I hate when people say this shit. Do you really think Nintendo would have never had the idea for a 3D Mario platformer without Argonaut's Yoshi prototype, in an era when games were already starting to experiment 3D? Not to mention the Croc prototype was supposedly blown off by Nintendo around 1995, whereas a document from the gigaleak states that Super Mario 64's development began in September 1994.

>>8619187
Cry harder about your defunct pinball company bitch, they never released anything remotely comparable with Yoshi's Island

>>8613685
>The prototype to Croc happened before Mario 64 even started development.
Oh really?
>We started Croc as a concept in 1994, it looked very different then. We worked on it until we had a prototype game in 1996. (https://archive.org/details/Sega_Saturn_Magazine_Issue_24_1997-10_EMAP_Images_GB/page/n61/mode/2up p. 63)
Meanwhile picrel from the gigaleak states that development of Mario 64 started on September 7, 1994.

I don't know about Nintendo not paying them for Star Fox 2 but Miyamoto did try to keep Argonaut out of the credits for Star Fox 1, as mentioned in an email from 1995 also from the gigaleak.

>>8615546
The build engine does not use BSP, instead all the sectors are linked together and rendering is done starting at the sector the camera is in, then working its way outward following the links to neighboring sectors, until the entire screen space has been filled. Its a little bit more of a brute force method than doom, but it has the advantage that the map geometry can be altered in real. It also has the strange quirk of making it possible for multiple rooms to occupy the same xyz coordinates as coordinates in build include sector. This feature is what makes mirrors work, when you mark a wall as a mirror, the engine builds a mirror image of the room geometry behind the mirror, and since build allows multiple rooms to occupy the same xyz, you don't need to reserve space behind the mirror.

>>8613879
Shit article, reviewer shit at games, irrelevant and oversaturated opinion. Check, please!

>>8619056
>3D games on the PC before Mario 64
Do you mean the Doom clones or the autism simulators? Well I guess Test Drive III is pretty cool too.

>>8613924
It uses height, but the overhead perspective is fixed and the world is constructed from tiles with layers. Compare to Doom or Duke which have a first person perspective which you move throughout the game's world in realtime, a world with volume, where the height and width of characters and objects weigh against where they try to go, and where world geometry can even change dynamically (in Duke's case a lot more).

>>8613987
Doom and Duke both have all three axes, they would not work otherwise.
Confusion comes from how Doom intentionally ignores the Z-axis for a select few things, mainly monsters and players trying to pass above or beneath each other, but just because they can't do that doesn't mean they don't have to account for the height of world geometry, or that projectiles and hitscan attacks won't have to hit at the right height.

Projectiles and hitscans will pass above and beneath monsters and players if they are too far above or below, people are confused by the player's vertical auto-aim, which directs attacks upwards or downwards if a visible target is above or below your centerline (these can still miss).
It can even be demonstrated by making a level where the player can visually see a monster which is above or below through exploiting rendering quirks, but which is actually blocked by world geometry, and thus the auto-aim does not see them, won't direct your attacks up or down, and the attacks will visibly pass above or below them.
Monster melee attacks in Doom do not check for height, however, so even if another monster or player is well above or below a monster, as long as they are next to each other on the map they can reach to hit.

Monster and player collision can be completed with just a couple of lines of code (Heretic does this, using the same engine), likewise for monster melee, a point probably overlooked because of the first game not making much use of verticality in the designs of its combat encounters.

>>8615546
>the Build Engine is not polygonal. It uses some sort of BSD partitioning system like Doom, I don't know the details on how it works.
Build uses a different setup from Doom's Binary Space Partitioning.

>But Doom and Duke Nukem 3D (and raycaster engines like Wiolf 3D) is that they lack the ability to do real 3D space. Maps are designed on a flat 2D grid and walls/ elvated areas are created from the floor and ceiling height maps. Try making a map in the Build Editor. The only way to make bridges and stuff are out of bill boarded sprites.
I don't think that's relevant, room over room and bridges isn't a key point denoting if a world is three dimensional or not, just because various tricks being required to make or simulate such things doesn't mean the worlds of these games are without volume.

>These games don;t have a 'y-axis'
Yes they do.

>and looking up and down is faked with screen skewering.
Duke does that, but that isn't relevant either.

>Things like elevated areas are faked using portal-like tricks.
No, they aren't? Stairs in these games are a set of elevations and they demonstrably are their actual heights and dimensions as characters must interact with them accordingly to ascend or descend them.
Are you thinking about how Duke does fake room over room and underwater by creating separate spaces which the player is warped to? Those spaces also have height and volume.

>The Build Engine uses a lot of crazy hacks to give the sensation of 3D.
It uses a lot of crazy hacks to get around its limited method of rendering a three dimensional world. Using flat sprites to depict the surface of a midair bridge doesn't mean that this isn't actually a bridge, a physical surface above another physical surface.

>objects can overlap each other vertically, game has proper 360 degree movement. etc.
Objects can overlap each other vertically in DN3D, as well as Heretic and Hexen (which uses Doom's engine). What do you mean by 360 degree movement?

>>8613661
Ultima Underworld.

>>8613846
this meme never dies, huh?

>>8616010
Based.

>>8621028
Good answer.

>>8616369
Flattery won't get you anywhere.

>>8613661
It's ok console plebs always forget about it

>>8621110
Doing 3D where the player is directly in control of the “camera” from a first person perspective is much easier than presenting a polygonal character controlled from a third person perspective in a fully 3D environment. Not that Quake isn’t great of course, but Mario 64 is more of a milestone in gaming.

>>8619257
>>8620916
Data East games are full of action and hot babes but nintendrones prefer crying babies and slowly aiming eggs. Here's a platformer done right with dinosaurs.

>>8613661

The need for speed
Ridge racer
Descent
Jumping flash
Motor toon grand prix
Elite
Frontier Elite 2
Fury3
Shockwave

>>8613669
>The game Nintendo stole the idea from for SM64z.

I guess Croc stole the idea of 3d plats from Jumping Flash.

>>8621652
And Jumping Flash from Alpha Waves

>>8621602
based, ignore the pedo manchidlren unable to say bad stuff about the big N
Joe & Mac still loved

>>8621652
I guess, because the prototype of Croc was on the SNES.

>>8613669
what is with the croc meme?

>>8620919
>Meanwhile picrel from the gigaleak states that development of Mario 64 started on September 7, 1994.
Yeah, they saw proto-Croc and decided to make something similar soon after.

>I don't know about Nintendo not paying them for Star Fox 2 but Miyamoto did try to keep Argonaut out of the credits for Star Fox 1, as mentioned in an email from 1995 also from the gigaleak.
It's clear disrespect, it's not surprising he wouldn't want to share the spotlight with Argonaut for SM64 either. It was too good of a technical demonstration and this way they don't have to share any of the profits. They were used and then thrown away.

>>8621740
I remember that email, what did they say exactly? Argonaut had some bright minds behind it. Classic case of the studio leads being the founders who were huge geeks. Not often you see Brits like that with such design chops too.

>>8619187
HOLY BASED.