/vr/ - Retro Games

Neogeo is very similar to sega genesis, it's easy as fuck. In the early 2000s there was some anti piracy encryption code but SNK fucked up by shipping location test pcbs without protection which led to being hacked extremely quickly.

>>8574630
Indistinguishable from the real thing if you have a fast display, low lag settings, and a decent joystick.

>>8574630
what's the best way to get Neo Geo arcade stick feel at home?

>>8574707
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBrYUlOYK0U
SNK pads have patented nubs with crazy tactile feedback. The new analogues on neo geo mini don't compare.
They're dying and are going to permanently fade soon and there's nothing you can do. It's beautiful in a way, Buddhists say art is a cycle of destruction and creation.

>>8574707
Seimitsu LS-40 + Seimitsu PS-14-G buttons.
These are the controls that shipped on Neo cabinets in Japan.

>>8574865
but US style was different?

>>8574869
Yes.
USA probably shipped with a Super joystick + convex vertical microswitch buttons.
But who knows what operators put in when those wore out. Could have been anything laying around.

>>8574883
These vertical buttons are little different from the typical Happ buttons. The plunger slides past the switch instead of coming down straight on top of it.

>>8574865
Man, I have an LS-40 and an LS-62 and I have to say I can't love the 40.

>>8574921
Use whichever joystick you have the best results with. These days if you go to an arcade in Japan you'd probably find a JLF on a Neo cab just because that has taken over as the standard.

>>8574921
What do you not like about the LS-40?

>>8574707
>3x3
Bro

>>8574938
Yeah, it's the thing that all arcade sticks include nowadays too (except for cheap garbage). I looked for a stick that was good for practically everything, STGs, beat em ups, fighting games, shit, even platformers. I ended up with 4: the JLF, which I would consider a bit too loose for anything but fighting games, an LS-40 which is the polar opposite, to the point I can't handle fighting games with it at all, the LS-58 which internally is weirdly designed so that each direction feels different and it ends up being annoying, and the LS-62 which is what I found to be the best all rounder (and doesn't have the problem the LS-58 has, but it's practically identical in other aspects).

>>8574962
Honestly I feel it's great for shoot em ups and then I try to pull some moves with diagonals on fighting games and I keep missing the simplest shit. Like I need to be a lot more precise. Something funny, unlike other sticks, I noticed that the washer that's included with the LS-40 is designed specifically so it puts a little bit of resistance on the spring by default. Makes it feel a little bit heavier than it should, I feel like.

>>8575043
I found I was more precise with the LS-40 for the most part.

>>8575043
LS-32?

>>8575043
Have you used the Seimitsu buttons?
I've always been interested in the notion that they are more stiff feeling than Sanwa buttons.
How do they compare to the stock Hori buttons?

Why did it take so long for arcade stick manufacturers to realize everything they were putting out was just too darned small?

>>8574630
Pretty good

>>8574673
>Indistinguishable from the real thing if you play the real thing on a laggy display


>>8574732
>SNK pads have patented nubs with crazy tactile feedback
>They're dying and are going to permanently fade soon and there's nothing you can do
Obviously you get all your information from youtube. But you posted the wrong link. Can you post the one to the screaming little spazz who filled your head with that silly nonsense?

>>8576005
InPuT LAaaAg is bullshit made up excuse for your lack of getting gud.

>>8575371

That was the default gamestick for the AES. The boxes for the 1990 AES release look like they were inspired by Miami Vice.

>>8575371
They were thinking about the cost of making bigger sticks and how the general public would react to a home product that took too much space. It's funny how Madcatz of all companies went all in with marketing the Tournament Edition as being the premium, "this is what the pros are all using" item to regular consumers and that got the ball rolling for all other manufacturers to make bigger sticks now that the market was viable for it.

>>8576005
Runahead works very well with Final Burn Neo, which is already a low-latency emulator. Getting lag equal to the Neo hardware is easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_kGJBv6Wr4

If a joystick feels too small for your lap you can buy a large plastic food tray and put the joystick on it. Works very well.

>>8575043
I tried a few Seimitsu levers myself, but I could never find anything that would make me switch from Sanwa JLF. It might feel loose sometimes, but in reality, making the spring tighter is not a good idea, they did manage to find a damn good balance that Seimitsu sticks don't have. In my opinion, JLF is the endgame lever (unless you're a pervert spending hundreds of dollars on some Korean rubber).
>>8575248
I switched to Seimitsu buttons (PS-14-G in my case), and they're fucking sweet. Solid as fuck, they have a satisfying springy feeling that Sanwa buttons don't, so they're much more pleasant to press. At the same time, they're not as tight as springloaded Happ buttons, so you can still mash without your fingers falling off after 30 minutes. I also found their flatter profile really nice to the touch. Would definitely recommend it if you only ever used Sanwas.
>How do they compare to the stock Hori buttons?
Hori has two types of buttons. The old ones were called Kuro and they were basically Sanwa bootlegs, nothing interesting. Nowadays they make Hayabusa buttons (easily recognized by their matte texture), and while some people like them, I think Hayabusa is mushy garbage (because Hori cheaped out on plastic, so the plungers are very thin).

>>8574630
>How accurate is the best Neo Geo emulation these days?
Enough that you'd never notice it was emulation if you didn't already know.

>>8575248
I could only try one ps-14-g and it seems nice if a little loud. They don't activate by just hovering over them and there's this thing where if you press down all the way you can feel there's some resistance at the bottom, so it's not fully linear. It's hard to explain.

>>8576393
For fighters the JLF is good and I would say even forgiving, but for STGs it feels delayed. The microswitches have a thing where they take longer to fully press/go back to neutral. It holds a direction for longer before returning to its neutral position which gets a little bit annoying. Even though platformers are not suitable there, you can notice a difference there too. With a JLF I can't switch from left to right as quickly as with a seimitsu, even when the seimitsu has a heavier spring (I have a few of those at hand). One thing I love about the JLF though is that it's not as god damn loud as any seimitsu stick I have.

Pretty much everything 5th gen and below is super solid these days. Really my only big hang up with modern software emulation is audio delay. I don't know the technicalt details behind it but I'm surprised it's still such an issue. Even using retroarch and manually dialing down the audio delay as far as I can take it still results in 3-4 frames worth of difference. When you're used to real hardware it stands out a lot

Everything else is spot on though, especially now that we have things like VRR support

>>8576502
>One thing I love about the JLF though is that it's not as god damn loud as any seimitsu stick I have.
I had a JLF mounted in a plexiglass panel in a wood case and somehow the sound of the joystick in that case was more pleasing than in any other I've had. It had a more bass sound to it than the usual metal clicky sound.

>>8576507
*Meant more like 2-3 frames usually

>>8576502
I use JLF for almost everything nowadays, mostly because it's fun to replay old retro games with an arcade stick. I'd say that it's still perfectly usable even for precise stuff like platformers, you just have to get used to it.

>>8576521
Using a JLF to play Donkey Kong is kind of like playing Super Mario Bros with a PlayStation controller. In terms of similarity of original controls.
Actually it's probably farther away than that.

But I do it too anon.

>>8576508
I think it's because the parts under the metal plate are covered and there's less space between them. Some Seimitsus have a bit of a gaping hole there. They released a "silent" LS-40, the LSQ-40, but I'm not sure how silent that actually is or even if it's good.

>>8575371
I think it was, and I'm sure I'm way off here, that on an actual arcade cabinet each player didn't really have that much room to work with. So maybe manufacturers thought "eh that had to put up with that bullshit being real close to each other in the arcades, they don't need wider sticks"

>>8574630
Kawaks allowed me to beat KOF '98, so it's the bestest.

>>8576539
Not just old arcade games, but basically anything that doesn't require analog input. Shit's fun, it's like you're looking at those games from a brand new angle.
I wonder what stick Donkey Kong used though. It was probably something like Pac-Man, with a rhombus gate and no diagonals. Info on that kind of old hardware is kinda hard to find though, even service manuals didn't bother giving lever/button schematics.

>>8576563
By contrast this is the stick I own and sometimes use, a Hori RAP 4 Kai. It gives me significantly more room to work with compared to each player at a cabinet.

>>8576563
I think it was a matter of evolution. Console arcade sticks evolved from controllers, earliest examples like NES Advantage and ASCII Famicom stick had membrane buttons and sticks, so making them big was kinda dumb, larger membrane is more susceptible to tearing, and it's not like NES had an abundance of arcade-perfect ports, so whatever. Neo-Geo was actually one of the earliest examples of an arcade stick with actual arcade parts, although it used 24mm buttons (the ones normal sticks use for start buttons nowadays), so it feels small nowadays. Sega eventually made their Virtua Stick for Saturn, and while the American version was your standard small membrane garbage, the Japanese version was pic related. Microswitched stick and full 30mm buttons, because Japan loved arcades that much, and there were actual good arcade ports now to play with. This became the template for arcade sticks going forward.

>>8574630
last time i checked hey all had weird sound emulation, sounding nothing like a real neo geo

>>8576009
>>8576165
>input lag doesn't exist
>run ahead fixes input lag

>>8576872
Input lag is a meme AND even if it weren't runahead achieves lower latency than real hardware. You have NO excuse.

>>8574630
decent

>>8576872
Are you mentally retarded? They didn't say that input lag doesn't exist, just that it's not an issue and is used as a crutch.
You know you need to be older than 18 to post here, right? So either you haven't learned basic reading comprehension in your grade school yet or you're honest to god retarded.

>>8574630
Good, but hit and miss in some rare cases.
I was playing AOF2 in FinalBurn Neo at 130% speed in aes mode (not overclocking, the game lets you do that) and the game just softlocked itself after a few matches. On other emulators doing the same it just softlocks before the match starts (like WinKawaks) or it plays at 100% despite choosing another speed (like NeoRageX).

>>8576050
Most things in the early '90s looked like that.

What is the most accurate stand alone emu for NeoGeo ? The latest I played was FB Alpha.
I still remember playing NeoRage X waaay back then

>>8577225
FB Neo, it's an evolution of FB Alpha

>>8577232
Thanks!

FBNeo is even better than a Neo Geo because you can remove the empty jumping and shooting frames on games like metal slug. You can run ahead to make it so snappy and responsive that it's actually faster than real hardware and technically cheating

>>8576887
>im seething AND coping

>>8577110
>he didn't say that
>he said this other thing he didn't say
>now i'll cope and project, because that always works

>>8576568
Donkey Kong is one of the most well documented cabinets.

>>8576585
The Japanese Virtua Stick had to have been a very successful product. They are one of the most common joysticks you can find on ebay.

>>8574630
i can play every game i want, i have a chinese crap controller and still i can play perfectly, we are not in 2001 anymore, anon, Neo Geo is totally nice on emulators

>>8577263
You can even remove all the lag on Metal Slug 2, but I unironically think it's fucking there for incompetent people like me. Somehow to me playing that game at 100% speed seems really difficult

Loosely related, but why are the popular seimitsu/sanwa/whatever buttons nowadays either flat or convex for the most part? Is it an ergonomics thing? Does it get more tiring to push on concave stuff?

>>8577506
Mostly tradition and convention. It's possibly easier to do some advanced techniques like plinking on convex buttons.

There are concave Japanese-style buttons available now.

>>8574630
I play on a MiSTer these days since I got buddies that come over. Otherwise, I won't shoot down the chance to play on Fightcade with my more distant friends. Fightcade uses Final Burn Neo which is the standard emulator for online tournaments so take it as you will.

>>8574707
Alibaba sells arcade stick cases with the sprawled out NeoGeo layout. Just buy the parts and a PCB.

>>8577569
I see. Too bad I can't find those in europe, I could replace the "plungers" on sanwa buttons. I was planning to grab some new buttons, but no idea what to get. I know ps-14-g's are decent from trying them myself, but fuck there's so many nowadays.

People play KOF 98 on Fightcade at an extremely high level so if it's good enough for that it's good enough for me.

Wildly inaccurate, all Neo Geo games were originally N64 level 3D and all the emulators dumb it way down