/vr/ - Retro Games

Tooie already is better than Kazooie though

>>8574134
Make the worlds a lot smaller, more condensed. This is the only change I'd make, but I feel it would improve the game drastically

I'd reduce the number of split up sections. It was kind of lame that so many of the power ups involved just banjo or just kazooie. I wish there were more moves that involved both.

Make Cauldron Keep a complete world.

>>8574134
Get rid of nested items. That's all I'd really do

>>8574154
The only new moves in BT that WEREN'T split up moves were

>fast swim from goldfish
>first person egg aiming (needlessly stretched artificially so that doing it for flying and swimming are different moves technically)
>FPS Goldeneye style, specific areas only. and the FPS peck which likewise is padded out artificially
>ledge grab
>bill drill
>kazooie underwater torpedo
>springy shoes
>suction shoes
>all the egg types

remove fps sections
make Banjo's overall speed faster
improve the minigames
make solo Banjo and Mumbo more interesting to use
keep grunty rhymes, jamjars is not a good replacement
get rid of note nests and place them like regular collectibles, maybe use DK64's banana bunches and balloons to give you more notes.
keep the jiggy dance
rework terrydactiland entirely
and finally, give the game more vibrant colors, Tooie is way too gloomy, rocky and dark compared to Kazooie

>>8574139
fpbp

>>8574134
>change tooie
>but don't change tooie
it's already perfect

>>8574148
I agree with all worlds except Glitter Gulch, the main hub of that world is perfect.

Blow the dust off those SGI workstations and make DKC4 instead

>>8574139
FPBP

>>8574451
perfect? it's ugly, boring, and easy to get lost.

I'd sell the IP and all assets to some chinese company and make AAA loli eroge

>>8574134
A lot of people on this board are harsh towards Nintendo fans, and i never understood it.
I think i'm finally beginning to understand why...

Make some of the worlds ever so slightly smaller, so there's not so much pointless walking. Maybe cut Mumbo as a playable character, or do something much more interesting with him. You could very easily just have tokens to activate Mumbo pads, rather than having to walk back and forth between Mumbo's hut.
That's about it really. I think it's already a more interesting game than the original in a lot of ways.

>>8574134
Fix the slowdown issues and add the stop n swap stuff is all id do.

>>8574134
Tooie is a litmus test for ADD.

>>8575101
*plays the saxophone solo from Anri's Shyness Boy on your dick*

>>8574134
Increase Banjo's movement speed. Give him and Kazooie more abilities that relate to mobility. Bigger jumps, etc. If the worlds are gonna be bigger than you gotta make Banjo not a slow clunky fucker.
Also remove transformations and Mumbo Pads.

The probably with the game isnt the interconnective words- its the bloat of way too much mechanics. No need for the different eggs other than maybe grenade and the cuckoo clock ones?

If i was feeling really spicy, maybe rework the split up pads? Let Banjo and Kazooie split up whenever they feel like and not at those specific areas. Maybe contextualize by giving Banjo an ability that shoots Kazooie out of his backpack like a cannonball. This could also serve as a replacement for Glide ability that barely gets used.

But shit like the Taxi Pack and Hatch are unneeded and take away from the game as a whole.

Then rework all the level designs to match the size/scale of Witchyworld. No need to get much bigger (or smaller) than that.

>>8574225
>and finally, give the game more vibrant colors, Tooie is way too gloomy, rocky and dark compared to Kazooie
Disagree with this one. Its one of the big reasons I liked it more than Kazooie as a kid and it helps Tooie stand out.

>either make the worlds slightly smaller or introduce a move early on that lets you run really fast
>improve Mumbo or get rid of him
>make all of those stupid-ass "puzzle abilities" like carrying things in your backpack or hatching eggs available from the start (better yet, get rid of the backpack carrying and come up with less stupid reasons someone would want to play Banjo without Kazooie)
>change the way jiggies are totaled, so if there's a collectable you can only get by taking a path from another world, the menu lists it as being from THAT world so you know where to look
>if Gruntilda speaking in rhyme is really that much of an issue, then change it so she doesn't do it 100% of the time instead of removing it completely
>hell, just get rid of all of the other stupid attempts at making the game more mature too
>completely re-work the split-up mechanic so it's a thing you can do whenever instead of a stupid pad-exclusive gimmick (hell, give Kazooie more speed and a way to warp Banjo to her and this can be the new speed mechanic)

It's as though not a single one of you motherfuckers actually regularly remembered to use the warp pads

>>8574139
fpbp

>>8575380
I don't use the warp pads. It's kino af exploring the levels. Never understood the level size meme desu

>>8575498
Levels in Kazooie were jam packed with stuff. Every section of every level had stuff in it. There was almost no 'dead space'.
Compare that to Tooie where 90% of the levels are empty. The interesting parts are few and in between.

>>8575380
>>8575608
Some of the jiggies literally require just running back and forth between two destinations.
One that always stuck out to me in witchyworld:

>have to run to mumbo to power up bumper cars ride
>have to go back to get banjo
>have to go to wumba to turn into car
>go back to bumper car ride to pay the toll
>go back to wumba's to get banjo back
>go back to bumper car ride to actually play the minigame

There's a lot in the game like that. Warp pads wouldn't be needed if it didnt have these bullshit parts and was just a scavenger hunt like Kazooie. Also maybe if Banjo moved faster or could do fancy acrobatics like Mario.

reduce the size of the worlds by at least half
scrap every shooting minigame
have actual notes scattered around levels instead of that gay trebleclef shit that might as well not even be in the game

>>8575738
The mumbo shit was retarded in general.
All he was a glorified toggle switch. Literally everything he did could be replaced with a switch.

>>8575738
Mumbo can use the warp pads, and there were shortcuts that only the car could use that led right to the areas you're talking about.

So basically everyone says that Notes (which save) in individuals rather than bundles would be an improvement, but I have literally no idea why the fuck anybody says this aside from the autistic need to feel empty space with something. I really don't get it, can someone articulate this for me? How are more Notes an improvement? The way Tooie's levels are designed doesn't really seem to invite this idea and I feel that more Notes would cause more problems without solving a fucking thing.

I feel like people say more Notes would be better for emotional reasons without stopping to think why this supposedly be a good idea. Every angle I look at seems like this is a terrible idea to me

>>8575967
And yet, they were not enough.

>>8577259
I think the notes became so insignificant when compared to the size of the levels that they couldve simply done away with them. I dont even remember what purpose they served in Tooie, other than being required to learn new moves, but this requirement could easily be replaced for something else.

>>8575806
Agree with this.

>>8575738
For me, the size of the levels were never the main problem, but the backtracking. If the levels were big, but all you had to do was go from A to B, I wouldnt have a problem with it.

>>8574154
Split up abilities for Banjo and Kazooie felt like the ONE thing they did right in BT, they just took it in the wrong direction.

Other than that I agree with
>removing FPS sections
>increasing their default moving speed, talon trot just dont cut it, or make it so you can use the running shoes indefinitely

And I would add
>make all cutscenes skipable, even when youre watching them for the first time. I always felt there were too many cutscenes.

So have folks always hated the extremely based FPS sections or is this a recent zoomer development.

>>8574134
First I’d remove all the collection and stuff. I’d make it so that the game is centered around vehicular combat. I’d create a system where you can use modular components to make your own custom vehicle, then the entire game will be spent driving around in the car fighting bad guys and completing challenges.

>>8574139
Fpbp

And SAGE

EAT SHIT NIGGER

CALL THE NANNY JANNY TRANNIES IDGAF

>>8574139
fpbp

It feels like Notes were included merely for the sake of having them since they were iconic. They literally don't do anything from a gameplay perspective, you just need them to learn new moves.....why? Why not just allow you to learn moves whenever you find them? This limitation seems pointless and completely unnecessary just to give Notes a use

>>8577538
Sounds good, wish they'd make this some day

First thing would be to slightly shrink some of the overworlds. Plenty of them are fine, but shit like Terrydactyland and Grunty Industries become way too much of a slog to go through. Jolly Roger bay also becomes quite long and sometimes confusing to go through. Better landmarks could also help with this kind of issue.
Second would be to rework split up mechanics in some way. I don't feel this needs to be gone, and I don't think the pads should be nixed. I feel the best way to handle this would just be better placement. Namely exclusively placing these pads and puzzles close to warp pads. It'd be much more reasonable and cut down on a lot of backtracking to just keep this shit easy to warp to, because once you decide to go through one of these puzzles, you're guaranteed to go through the same path 3 times in a row:
>The way back to the pads
>From the pads back to the puzzle as the solo
>Back to the pads from the puzzle as the solo
Making this as painless as possible would go a long way.

>>8574139
fpbp

>>8575967
Well, yeah. That just means you're running from teleport pad to teleport pad.

>>8578205
>Anon simply cannot stand walking more than 5 feet and is deeply upset when games make things even slightly less than literally as convenient as is physically possible

>>8578434
Yes, I dislike boring shit in my video games. Thanks for pointing that out.

>>8574139
yup
dumb ass OP

>>8574225
>>8575804
>We are getting rid of notes in bunches of five and instead putting them in a line of five

>>8574139
/thread

I change nothing.

>>8578205
There's no satisfying you people.

>>8574225
Fuck off, the fps multiplayer mode was one of the funnest fps games on the system.

>>8579976
Dk64 had better mutliplayer

>>8578784
Anonymous you are fucking retarded

>>8574139
Fpbp op btfo

>>8574134
>ITT
Make the world smaller!
Have less items!
Don't have split bear and bird sections

Pathetic

I would've delayed DK 64 and given that Nov 1999 release date to Banjo Tooie, cut whatever you need to cut to reach the deadline and in consequence by doing this you'll remove a lot of the "innovations" that are actually hated from BT,

N64 kids including myself were starving for new Banjo. Sure it would've been very similar to BK and been more of an expansion pack of the original but back in the 90s that would've been fine, it was all it needed to do. We all wanted a Mario 64 2 even if it was just a levelpack. BK was fresh of the hype of the original game and still carving its name as a VG pop culture icon.
DK64 sort of killed the hype of 3D collectathons by rare and by November 2000 people were all hyped for the PS2 and next gen consoles which killed BTs relevance and for it to become a bigger name. If it would've released earlier it could've avoided the two things that helped BT be forgotten to oblivion. The fact that the few that played it were also not 100% into it didn't help.

The other thing that would've helped BT is to actually have the stop n swop. You can't blueball your audience with that ending and then ignore it in the sequel, sure I understand the technical problems they ran into it but ignoring it was not the way to go. The code as already programmed for you to be able to get the eggs in BK, so just release that code to build up hype for BT and in BT make it so that anyone can put in a cheatcode to "transfer" the save data, obviously this isn't actually being done and the cheatcode will unlock it regardless of you having owned/done the stopnswop quest or not. Since the dialog was known to break the fourth wall have kazooie make a snarky comment about it only for bottles to say "oh don't think about it too much". But at least that same idea of the eggs and the ice key could've been carried over to the sequel without the stop n swop and given as sense of continuation.

>>8580890
and this is from someone who liked BT. But the release date was too late, I was now thinking about the gamecube and PS2, I bought BT but it didnt' have the same effect. DK64 I was never able to finish because I got bored of it, it was like BK but without the fun dialog to guide you through worlds and too much swapping. I had a lot of fun returning to Banjos world but when you added up the points I made it made it so I moved on from BT to play other stuff.

If Rare hadn't been sold I'm sure BK could've made a comeback with a third game on gamecube had it come out before Sunshine and perhaps made the cut of the original Smash Bros Melee but switching to xbox killed any chance for Banjo to ever become on the same level of Mario/Sonic, hell it never got a chance to reach the level of Crash because of the sale. The GBA game was actually pretty decent too but Banjo was seen as a forgotten franchise from the past by the time it came out. Sad stuff, no revival will ever bring Banjo back. He's like those wrestlers who you cheer for and remember fondly when they make an appearance at the royal rumble but since they weren't able to make a name for themselves when they should've they got stuck and never reached that stardom power.

>>8580890
>>8580932
They could have just used a memory pak for SNS, I have no idea why they didn't. Sure some kids including me would not have had one and would miss out, but fuck 'em. Fuck past me too, get a memory pak ya fuckin' loser.

Also sorry no but BT absolutely did not need to be cut back and rushed out the door. It already WAS, they rushed Tooie out the door for Christmas 2000 around the time they were starting to build Hailfire Peaks. It shows. It needed MORE TIME in the oven, I'm willing to bet a lot of Tooie's bullshit would have been ironed out if they had a little more time with it.

>>8581097
true but here I"m only trying to fix their mistake counting that BK didn't feature memory pak compatibility.

Well a rushed BT would've meant they would've had to be less ambitious and make it more of an expansion pack of BK, giving us more of the same which would've been fine.

>>8581097
Yeah, hell, the sega games on the gamecube do "stop n swap" better because all they do is check to see if a save file exists on your gamecube memory card and then unlock shit accordingly.

They could have just saved the game to the cartridge, and then had a controller pak exclusive save after getting the SnS items. The two Bomberman 64 games do that, where the main game is saved to the cartridge, but the custom bomberman character for multiplayer is saved to the controller pak.

They were fucked when they finished BK without considering that option. And also, the idea probably would have sucked even without the console revision that changed the hot swapping times. My two carts rarely start on the first time they're loaded in. I'd be pissed if I attempted to load Banjo Tooie and it didn't load right away so I had to do the whole thing all over again.

>>8581097
>>8581875
I would be willing to bet that SnS exists entirely because they thought the hotswap idea was cool as fuck, and not because it was practical. There were many many other ways they could have executed the idea and they explicitly avoided them because the feature existed not because that was the idea, but because someone realized the hotswapping would be a neat gimmick.

>>8582038
Yea you're right most likely

>>8579934
>this is bad because you run back in forth between these two destinations
>well actually you can just run back in forth between these other destinations

>>8580151
Dang anon... you sure showed me!

>>8574139
fpbasedp

>>8574134
make everything smaller and speed up all the animations and cutscenes. maybe replace some of the cutscenes with interactive segments.
probably remove a bunch of the alternate gameplay styles and minigames and keep just the most fun ones and develop those more thoroughly.
also, mumbo jumbo shouldn't be so miserable to control. i swear it's incredible they managed to screw up such a neat concept as playing as the masked voodoo lizard that helped you out in the first game.

>>8574139
I agree
Zoomers are just filtered by the big levels
Tooie chads rise up

>>8574148
Thats whats good about tooie though, getting lost in a giant adventure of a game.
I love BK's condensed form and its admittedly less confusing, but id trade that for the feelings tooie leaves me with, the sense of loss and awe at these sprawling levels full if ideas and wonder

>>8575375
I never understood why people liked gruntys rhymes so much
Even as a kid I found them annoying.
Shes much more menacing in tooie
Brentildas grunty grossout lore is fun tho