/vr/ - Retro Games

It's a joke in this video that channers took seriously.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbts2qTrbAg

>>8572703
My bad wrong video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vAO6akjqdg
Don't fall for the bullshit by the way shmup fans like to fancy themselves as gigachads but it's obvious they are 30 but still living with their parents playing games all day like teenagers.

>>8572686
there's one rabidly anti-treasure person on this board.
otherwise, shmups attracts snobs and ikaruga attracts semi-normies
i think it's a great. it's very doable on easy, although it will take you a while to get the hang of it well enough to survive.

>>8572725
The irony of a chad snob that consumes children's entertainment at mom's basement is not lost on anyone.

>>8572686
>Why do more skilled people/experienced people of the community seem to hate this genre?
because it sucks, memorization ruins it and is very repetitive

There's legitimate criticism about Cave CV1000 games being not as polished as their PGM games but 4chan being 4chan they went full authoritarian retard on it and brought invisible trans enemies and political bullshit completely destroying their credibility.

>>8572739
post your shmup resume otherwise we cant take your bellyaching seriously

>>8572768
Post proof so we can dox you. That's what I said, there are legitimate complaints to be made about Ikaruga but because it's 4chan you need to create an invisible enemy to fight completely destroying your credibility. Trad chads don't play videogames.

>>8572775
you're the one creating boogeyman itt

>>8572779
I'm pointing the obvious irony out that grown men don't play children's games. You're more lined up with freaky trannies than traditional men.

>>8572686
Because it’s held up by people who don’t play a lot of shmups as the pinnacle of the genre
It’s good though

>>8572739
real schizo hours who’s up

>>8572686
Its okay. I played it on the wii before. Its pretty short and not really fun to replay.

>>8572686
Because it's a colour-matching puzzle game that people were tricked into thinking is a shmup. Typical Trashure gimmickshit.

If you want a good beginner's shmup which will teach you the fundamentals of the genre you should look elsewhere, Ikaruga ain't it.

Shmup nerds are weirdly insecure about Ikaruga because it’s very different from most of the shmups they love, and it gets a ton of attention.

Ikaruga is great, but Radiant Silvergun might be a better beginner game, since you can literally grind to power up your weapons, making the game much easier to see the end of.

>>8574276
I've played about 50-100 hours of both Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga, back around when they were originally released. For background, I can 1CC most shmups that aren't "meme hard" after a few hours of trying, though I've never played any for score.

It's weird. If you're not playing for score, Ikaruga is probably one of the easiest mass marketed shumps ever. It's a rough start at first, but once your brain adapts to the color switching it's an extremely easy game to 1CC.

But if you're playing Ikaruga for score, then it's really a puzzle game. That is, you need to pick the right time to switch colors and use your super for maximum score. The game becomes more about that than dodging shots, really.

Radiant Silvergun, on the other hand, is WAY harder than most people give it credit for. If you're playing the arcade version and starting all weapons on level 1, it's a really fucking hard game to 1CC. The game is unusually long, your ship has huge hit boxes, you move slowly, and it throws a lot of shit at you. Plus you NEED to go for scoring to upgrade your weapons. Oh, and you have 7 weapons.

>>8574276
>>8574307
Looking at your comment about "grinding weapons" in Radiant Silvergun... Yeah, if you use the at-home save feature to start the game with all weapons at level 30, it's not so bad. But that's not "arcade rules," so I wouldn't count that as a 1CC.

>>8572686
It's not the bullet hell autism power fantasy that destroyed the shmup genre

>>8574316
I wouldn't count you tranny as a real woman.

>>8574334
back to /v/ with you retard-kun

>>8574342
Don't forget your hormones at the dilation station.

>>8574328
people spout this meme constantly when the genre was already niche before bullet hell came into existence and gave the genre new life.
There were literally no new ways left to clone R-Type or Gradius or Sky Shark at that point. And the money in arcades had moved elsewhere.

Are all shmups just about memorization and routing? Do there exist any that don't fit that stereotype?

I feel like I SHOULD find shmups enjoyable on paper, but in practice I don't like grinding at the same stages with no variation for days or weeks until I've finally memorized the layout enough to be able to complete it.

>>8574385
Shmup fans are lolcows. Thousands of hours of practice and all they have to show for it is a momentary dopamine hit.

>>8574385
The general rule is if you don’t find the game fun to play in an immediate sense, you should stop playing.
If you’re just using shmups as a vehicle for 1CC achievements or trying to defeat them through autistic analysis and repetition without any enjoyment, then it’s just a job.

>>8574345
obsessed

>>8574408
Dial8

>>8574385
as a casual player i don't bother with either. i don't even play for score

>>8574425
Same, I love shmups that I can play by reflex and by managing flow, but I’m shit at them and I don’t 1CC them.

>>8572686
>Only for gamecube
I always played this on Dreamcast though

>>8572686
I use to like shmups and then I came to /vr/. It seems this genre attracts the very worst of people. Like Smash but worse.

>>8574345
Don't forget your schizo pills at the /pol/ community nuclear anxiety bunker.
Stop trying to derail, nigger. Nobody mentioned troons.

>>8574894
the most vocal people i see post about shmups on /vr/ seem to hate their very existence

>>8574898
Seethe, suck my cock bitch and kill yourself.

Ikaruga's one of those games that people who don't really like the genre never shut up about. It's a pretty good game though. I don't have any qualms with it.

>>8572703
>13 years ago
goddamn, how ahead of the curve

Ikaruga is a puzzle game, not shmup

>>8575527
yes, that's why it's good when normally shmups are ass

>>8574894
I would consider that since most shmups are very much single player games, the majority of actual players probably don't even go online and talk about them, also they are not narrative driven games (no real story or plot, just pure gameplay) and there is only so many times you can talk about scoring mechanics etc. The most vocal part of any community/fanbase is usually the worst/most cringe.

OP, I'm going to simply hide this thread because I have gotten so sickened by people that think their entry to retro is Ikaruga. It's literally like the ford mustang or coors light. It is so generic and widespread it's hardly unique anymore.

really off putting and I immediately dismiss anyone who brings it up when they're trying to get in to the "hobby" and has no intention of learning electronic repair or japanese

>>8575691
larp/bait

>>8575684
>since most shmups are very much single player games,
No they're not, the majority support 2 players. It's the trannies self imposed challenge that forced them that way.

>>8575758
you have a twisted view of the world and I hope you find a h hobby you enjoy more

Its the best shmup of all time and it makes every hardcore shmup fan seethe

>>8575837
>Its the best shmup of all time
Why?

>>8575840
Read the reviews buddy

>>8572686
There is still no shmup game that even approach the level KINOGRAPHIC LUDOTOGRAPHY that this game could produce.

I recommend Tyrian 2000 instead, since it was designed in a non autistic way, where the developers understood that regular human beings make mistakes, and arent autistic retards that only think a shmup is good if it uses outdated arcade rules with 1 hit deaths meant to milk you of all your money, and requires you to spend hundreds of hours to 1CC the game

>>8575891
there’s an entire world of euroshmups with life bars and bullet sponge enemies

>>8575891
Just say you're a casual and only care to play easy games. Is that so hard?

>>8575891
lmao, retard.

>>8572736
What are your favorite shmups? I'd like to play some that aren't about rote perfect memorization and offer the potential to improvise if I make a small mistake or if the enemies attack in a different pattern than normal. Are there any good shmups that don't play out exactly the same in every playthrough?

ikaruga is for faggots

>>8576226
Says the wojakfaggot. Kill yourself retard.

>>8574894
This but for video games instead of shmups.

>>8575691
pretty convincing in the first paragraph but jumped the shark at the end.

>>8576084
would be interested to see some RNG shmups. you could easily program a few sanity rules in to make sure you always have somewhere to hide, so you don't get fucked by the RNG.

>>8576084
it doesn't matter if they're ''about rote memo'' or not, whether your doing truxton 2 or deathsmiles, the fact is every time you play the shmup you're facing the same repetitive sequences of threats, same enemy appearances, same bullet trajectories in the same ways over and over as the game autoscrolls you forward no matter what, and that gets fucking boring even if you decide to go left 10 frames instead of right 10 frames randomly....99.5% of the shit you do will be the same over and over if you find that fun good luck but its no surprise the genre died so fast

>>8576361
thats why its good to hop games often, youre not supposed to take shmups seriously they are a throw-away genre meant to eat some quarters

>>8576420
thank you for reminding me lol

>>8572686
how is xbox360 version of this title?

Two reasons; the first is the anti-treasure anon, and the other is certain anons lose their fucking mind over people enjoying a game they think is too easy. Go see what happens if you say you like Super IV in a Castlevania thread.

>>8574873
I think it was a Gamecube exclusive in the USA for a while? I don't think we got the Dreamcast version here.

A couple of PC Engine games (Final Soldier, Soldier Blade, Cyber Core) aren't too difficult or complex and I think would make a better introduction to shmups.

>>8576084
>offer the potential to improvise if I make a small mistake

Most shmups have that

>>8576361
This is no different than any other linear action game. You already got BTFO in the last thread, I recognize your autistic writing style.

>>8576729
>This is no different than any other linear action game.
and that's flawed design unless they redeem themselves by having many hours of content, like 15-20 hours worth of things to figure out and do, instead of 30 minutes of average shmup trash.

>>8576754
So linear action games can work if they are long. And very short games can work if they are unpredictable and have viable rng?

>>8576754
This has to be bait lol

>>8576764
yes...
classic tetris is a good short game that benefits from the rng and ''unpredictability''

>>8576754
There's nothing wrong with that and more cahntent doesn't make a game better. If anything, if you think they are based entirely on memorization then them being shorter is a good thing. RNG sucks dick because it enters luck into the equation. And Tetris isn't a "short" game, just basically infinite. So stop replying to yourself.

>>8576754
It's not hours long, but you may enjoy this game, it's probably the most cinematic shmup (has ongoing story throughout the game and cutscenes) and it also has a variety of perspectives/viewpoints (both 2D and 3D sections).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQOrs1s8zFE

>>8575891
>i like euroshmup because its easy

About as retarded as saying "i don't like shmups because they are too hard", by the way there are plenty of arcade shmups that don't involve one hit deaths, to me it seems that a lot of people that think that all shmups are autistic bullethellish shooters only have experience with Cave titles or Touhou.

>>8576779
>If anything, if you think they are based entirely on memorization then them being shorter is a good thing
that's not a game that's a reciting a script verbatim.

>RNG sucks dick
RNG in your shitty memorizers upsets you because you have no time to react to anything without rehearsing the movements for hours and hours
RNG in good games is where unpredictability creates space for skill, surprises and strategy to be expressed, keeps the game new and fresh, every good game is full of unpredictability and not something you memorize totally from start to finish like reciting the alphabet

>>8576780
if a shmup can offer some spectacle and good music that could redeem it for a few hours, I guess. the gameplay sure as hell couldn't save the genre from dying a slow boring death

>>8576817
The gameplay is the best part though, what killed the genre was people wanting videogames to turn into long movies, easy enough that anyone can play them.

>>8576823
Competitive battle royale are a huge success with the zoomie crowd so clearly you're out of touch.

>>8576828
Battle Royale games have god awful gameplay though, you spend way more time walking around doing nothing than actually shooting, what excites zoomers is the fact that they find randomized loot around and go pew-pew with it, sometimes.

>>8576823
>either we have long movie games with no player agency or 20 minute memorization recitals
lol

>>8576815
yes and what killed shmups was their inherent bad design that was due to hardware limitations, lazy devs making mostly crap shmups under unreasonable time constraints, and arcade owner demand to have very short games to prevent players from hogging cabinets too long. Consoles at first ported and adopted the arcade style until they improved the formula. Action games became longer and had more content as hardware improved, developers became better at their jobs and arcade owners were taken out of the picture and thrown into the trash where they belong

>>8576265
rRootage, Warning Forever, Steredenn, Project Starship X, BroodStar, Legacy of the Elder Star, BulletGarden, Operation STEEL. I'm not even that into the genre so I'm sure other people could name more.

>>8572686
Because for years it was THE gateway to the shmup genre while playing very differently from the core games shmup autists love and they would wish some caveshit was in that spot. You'll see how anal some are when they start saying "huh it's acktshually a puzzle game!!!" Same thing that happens with Smash.

>>8574374
Bullet hell gameplay isn't the problem, it's the insular attitude from developers and the fanbase during the "bullet hell era". You have to wonder why twin stick shooters were popular during 7th-8th gen but bullet hell couldn't capitalize on that success, or if developers and the community even wanted to.

I watched shmup videos on Youtube wonder why fighting games lasted longer than shmups. It's because both developers and the community always tried to welcome new generations of players. Which is what shmup games should have tried to do when Geometry Wars/Super Stardust had a lot of attention

>>8578087
Twin stick shooters are basically from a different universe from scrolling 2D shooters. Both valid, but both completely different cultures and fanbases. It’s like comparing RoadBlasters with Ridge Racer.
The game that probably did the most to adapt 2D shooter conventions to console structure and a wider audience is R-Type Final, but people know Ikaruga better, probably because of its art style and marketing/grassroots hype.

>>8572686
>Why do more skilled people/experienced people of the community seem to hate this game?
because they want it to remain niche forever and they hate when non-autists have fun with a shmup

>8572686
I suck at this game but the music is sickD

>>8574442
Yeah, I'm guessing it's either you like putting the long hours and possibly the autistic shit, or playing them casually and never finishing them or getting that 1CC is fine too
Just find ones you like and enjoy and just simply enjoy them
For a more classic experience, I like Psychosis/Paranoia. The a more modern experience, Darius Burst Chronicles Savior has stages to complete to go on to the next one for example, much more doable than a full game. I also love Darius Gaiden in the Switch Cozmic Collection (Arcade). For something more bullet helly, Crimson Clover World Explosion has been pretty great and satisfying

>>8578676
Just use continues and savestates. Who gives a shit. Touhou fans are smart not to play the game.

>>8578109
R-Type Final and Ikaruga are the two main normie shmups, and they are both very strictly focused on memorization (even for shmups in general). Kinda makes you wonder why those two games in particular did so well with a more mainstream audience, and whether a more RNG based shmup would even appeal to outsiders.

>>8578823
I think most people understand memorization as a concept more readily than they typically do chaining systems or rank management or other detailed mechanics that a lot of latter-day shooters have.

>>8578839
Because chaining and rank only affect score autism which is nothing more than an useless number for bragging rights.

>>8578839
Yeah, that's a good point. With those two games that feeling of 'solving a puzzle' through trial and error and memorization is very much at the forefront, and people seem to like that in general. Might be why Dark Souls got so popular despite being challenging as well, it's kind of a similar thing. With that in mind, I don't think focus on strict routing or memorization can be blamed for the "death of shmups" really, as some anons are suggesting.

>>8578848
Nah, it's just a thing you can do for fun in a game like anything else.
If you see everything you do as a way to compete with others, then that's a personal problem.

>>8578087
I really feel like the problem is that so many of them just don't have a personality at least on the surface.
If you look at fighting games, even as a casual on-looker, you know Street Fighter as the game with Ryu and Chun-Li, and hadokens, you know Mortal Kombat as the game with Sub-Zero and Scorpian and fatalities, you know Soul Calibur as fantasy one, and Dead or Alive as the one with all the tits.
But when it comes to shmups, you're looking at a sea of space ships, and that's about it. this is also why Touhou is actually popular, because oh yeah, it has characters who have a presence in the games themselves, and it has a unique sort of identity, and that immediately gives people something to latch onto.

>>8578869
>If you see everything you do as a way to compete with others, then that's a personal problem
This 100%. That is absolutely the most cancerous mentality that plagues all videogame communities, especially those where the focus is on high difficulty like shmups, this idea that one can't just play games for fun and that every achievement has to be some sort of competitive bragging right... It also negatively affects the way outsiders view a genre like shmups. It's like, ever consider the fact that people play games because they enjoy them, regardless of whether they can get a high score or not? Also, if you didn't have scoring, there'd be no way to measure progress in your own ability at shmups. 90% of the time playing shmups, I always only cared about beating my own scores, because it's like, of course there is always going to be someone else who does it better. Scoring in shmups isn't about being the best player, it's about playing the best that you can for fun. This is also why shmups are "short games", because "replaying" them is the real way to play them. They weren't designed to be played through only once and then forgotten about.

>>8578943
At the end of the day you're a retard playing children's toys.

>>8578109
Are you trying to say a shmup developer was incapable of capitalizing on Geometry Wars/Super Stardust etc popularity? Don't conflate twin stick shooter gameplay with flashy leaderboard arcade game. Pac-Man CE (a classic game revival) is in the same category as those twin stick shooters

>>8578971
>retard playing children's toys
Same can be said about any genre. What do you play then, what makes you so enlightened? Are you saying games in general are children's toys for retards? Why are you here then?

>>8578879
If more shmups were like Radiant Silvergun with a story mode and an RPG-like system, instead of pure arcade scoring strategy, the genre would have lasted longer

I feel like there's a lot of very basic alterations you could make to shmups to immediately attract more of an audience.
A lot of people don't give a shit about plain scores, so award prizes like gold medals for doing particularly well in stages. It's entirely an aesthetic difference, but people respond to the idea of winning a tangible prize differently to how they respond to plain numbers.
Have a running tally of how many continues the player has used, and chastise them with it at the end of every stage, and the end game screen. This encourages people to want to keep playing and getting better.
Have characters, and Starfox style character chatter, and have collectible story files that you can unlock, so there's a little more there in terms of a storytelling experience.

>>8578971
And you're posting on /vr/.

>>8578879
Shmups never got as popular as fighting games due to the social competition aspect not really being there as much, but they definitely do have their own personality and character. Look at R-Type vs Gradius, or Darius, so many examples.

And with bullet hell/danmaku it's still true, it just so happens that Cave basically managed to perfect the formula and nobody has surpassed it since. Touhou got popular because of the whole anime girl aspect, and maybe to some extent the music, but if anything Touhou lacks personality IMO, which I would say is why the games themselves are not treated with as much importance as the derivative fan created content and also why Touhou is frowned upon by many in the shmup community. ZUN himself has referred to his games as glorified music players.

>>8579019
>but they definitely do have their own personality and character. Look at R-Type vs Gradius, or Darius, so many examples.
I would agree, but to people who haven't made the effort to play all of those games, they kind of all just look like the same thing.

>>8579004
It's true that a lot more could have been done to adapt shmups to a home console environment vs an arcade one. You do get a lot of visual feedback in some shmups for playing well besides the score going up though, like collecting bigger and bigger gold cubes/medals, and there are some shmups where your ships weapons level up etc.

>>8579025
Yeah, that's true but I guess that's more of a marketing issue, like with fighting games it's easier because you can promote art with the characters etc. I guess shmups maybe just never had that kind of money behind them, at least not for long. I mean really it's also a byproduct of our society in general that people have such short attention spans that they can't be bothered to check something out unless it's hyped up to the extreme and basically force fed to them via marketing.

>>8579062
I think people also just like characters. it's a human thing to want some kind of personality they can connect with. It's why people care so much more about Starfox than whatever cookie cutter on-rails game.

>>8579076
That's true for sure, I'm not sure it's a good thing though. It's the same with music, generally people want something with vocals because they find that easier to connect with, kind of a shame though because there is so much good instrumental music out there. Personally I really prefer cool spaceships over some anime characters or whatever, although I guess you can have both, which is what Cave tried to do with the Dodonpachi games. I don't think it worked out too well though, you don't really hear anyone praising SDOJ because it has anime girls plastered all over it, quite the opposite in fact; I think they alienated the original fanbase with that move and also failed to gain a new one.

Definitely part of the reason why shmups declined in popularity over time though, the lack of characters. I think that's also why mech games are not so popular in the west vs Japan, over here people just can't connect with stuff like robots or spaceships, there has to be that human element.

>>8579004
Perhaps something that could also be done is ditching long levels in favor of very short challenges. Games like Hotline Miami, Katana Zero and stuff have already shown that you can do these sort of action games that are about memorizing a level layout and executing a plan. Making it easier to repeat and succeed would make shmups much more approachable.

>>8579101
I just remembered Sine Mora, which had characters and character chatter during missions. Not a bad game as I remember, but I haven't touched it since launch. It definitely seemed to turn more heads than something totally nondescript like Rolling Gunner. It got me to play it.

>>8579076
Shmups don't need to just be planes in the darkness of space. Guwange, Shikigame Castle, ESPrade etc. There's plenty of ways to make the playable character unique. Like all the DLC packs in Darius Chronicle Saviours. Though I think by the end of 8th gen, interest in any full-priced arcade genre besides fighters reached an all time low

>>8579219
This game is kinda what's wrong with it. The anime characters appear once in the intro and select screen and then never get mentioned again.

>>8579219
Do they talk and interact during gameplay, or are they just avatars?

>>8579104
Or a hub system that allows other gameplay between the shmup stages

>>8579019
>ZUN himself has referred to his games as glorified music players.
Source please. This gets repeated once a shmup thread.

>>8579223
Right, it would have helped if they had individual endings or other appearances. But their craft all looked and played very differently. There could have been a Mega Man-like system where each craft has an advantage over specific bosses or other enemies, encouraging players to pick a "main" for different results

>>8572686
It's too slow for me. Tries way too hard to wow you and has that pretentious Treasure methodology with its level design and gameplay.

>>8579249
Japanese creators are always saying things like that, so I wouldn't read too much into it. Pixel makes an amazing game single handedly, and says "sorry the graphics weren't better". The writer of Girl's Last Tour ends the series on a note that pretty much says "sorry the writing wasn't better, but I'm happy you read it". Seems to be one of those things, when humility is pushed as a cultural virtue.

>>8579290
>when humility is pushed as a cultural virtue
So you're saying Kojima is the way he is because his parent's didn't raise him properly?

>>8579310
Does Kojima ever talk about himself?

>>8579310
Well, he does love America.

I was planning to start playing Dodonpachi Diaojou tonight or tomorrow. I've never played SHMUPs besides some Gradius here and there and that one PS2 Silpheed game. Is DDJ going to be hard for a newcomer?

>>8579431
Yes, the Dodonpachi series and especially Daioujou have a reputation for being difficult. But don’t let that discourage you, give it a shot.

>>8579431
DOJ is quite challenging yeah, fun game though. If you find it frustrating, maybe give Dodonpachi Resurrection (Daifukkatsu) a go, the next game in the series, that one is more beginner friendly IMO, although I'm not sure how well it's emulated (PC port is pretty cheap on Steam and has a lot of content and novice mode etc). Here's a good guide for bullet patterns in DOJ (and bullet hells in general) as well, might be useful (kinda long vid but you can skip around to find relevant parts):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS-gl9RNSzE

>>8579025
so do fighters on the surface for the most part, though with shmups the interesting entries with personality are basically front loaded with the early entries (I guess it's still kind of similar for fighters; which series made it to big names that didn't originate in the 90s or 80s?)

>>8579459
Just to clarify, Dodonpachi DFK/Resurrection is currently on sale on Steam for like a couple more days, if anyone wants to grab that. Really good introduction to bullet hell shmups in my opinion.

>>8579431
for a new player just getting to stage 2 or 3 without bombing will be a challenge
set your expectations low and find some survival 1cc replays to watch and learn the patterns & boss strats

>>8580019
>find some survival 1cc replays to watch and learn the patterns & boss strats
way to suck the fun out of shmups

>>8572686
Often held up as the best shmup by people who don't really play too many of them. Seeing it lorded over games like Dodonpachi can get pretty old.

It's a good game though, but the more I play other games in the genre, the less fond I am of it. Currently my favorites to kick back and unwind to are Darius Gaiden and Deathsmiles.

>>8580050
actually it adds to the fun since most of the fun is in doing and playing not mapping out the route, specially for new players who have no idea how anything works

>>8580058
>Often held up as the best shmup by people who don't really play too many of them
and that has no bearing on its quality and design

>Seeing it lorded over games like Dodonpachi can get pretty old.
post your DDP score

>>8574385
>Do there exist any that don't fit that stereotype?
play Tyrian. once you get powerful enough you can just kamikaze through enemy lines, and they die, not you. Best feeling in the game is when you kamikaze a boss and win.

>>8578869
>If you see everything you do as a way to compete with others, then that's a personal problem.
This mentality completely destroyed modern FPS too

>>8572686
>Why do more skilled people/experienced people of the community seem to hate this game?
It's more of a puzzle game than a proper shmup. It's fun at being that but obviously if you don't like the color switching mechanic you will think it sucks and then you will get mad when people who don't play shmups say it's one of the best ever.

>>8579960
Absolutely not, because I don't play fighters at all, and I could still tell you all of that. Characters like Chun-Li have permeated the culture a lot more thoroughly than the Vic-Viper has.

>>8579004
>Have characters, and Starfox style character chatter
Raiden V has that, it's annoying as hell

>>8580734
I think I remember Soukyugurentai having that to some extent. It had more of a character focus than other games at the time.

One of the soulest things is the female pilot talking shit about turning the enemy into "tuna sashimi" in the opening of Darius 2. Don't know why that didn't become more of a series staple.

>>8580818
I always wanted a thing called tuna sashimi.

>you actually turn the first boss into tuna sashimi in Darius Gaiden
these games have too much soul, man.

>>8580825

>>8580825
It’s just raw tuna. That’s literally all it, cut into fairly thin pieces. If you go to the fishmonger right this minute and just buy some tuna, you can just eat it out the pack. Amazing how Japanese delicacy works
>>8580734
WOHWOHBOWOBOWOHWOBBOWOBWOO

>>8581229
That's the line from the game, mane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KLSmyeKlbw

>>8581229

Ikaruga is one of the very few games I'd consider a legitimate work of art.

>>8574218
>the fundamentals of the genre
Fucking lel.

>>8581598
said the non-player

The "fundamentals of the genre" is literally just "don't touch the dots."
This is why I hate schmup autists and video gamers in general. They larp as intellectual titans over the most basic shit.

>>8581626
people who hate shooters always try to assert some kind of intellectual superiority
please go back to wherever you came from

>>8581626
Ikaruga is "do touch the dots", so that would be a correct assessment.

>>8581692
I didn't assert intellectual superiority, I simply called into question yours. Your post can be used as evidence for my point.

>>8581702
go back

>>8575891
based opinion. I actually think Tyrian 2000 might be the best shmup of all time. Also can be really really fucking hard when you turn up the difficulty. Especially the hidden modes

>>8572686
I like it because it was a very interesting and unique take on the genre with its polarity mechanics. It was a cool game to show off on the Dreamcast in its day. I was impressed back then watching someone play both players and comboing through in the superplay I downloaded (I remember one ship did die in stage 5 on the run posted): https://youtu.be/5ZEGyrEnXrk

>>8572686
It must have to do with its critical reception. There was a time when soi reviewers unfavorably compared every new shmup to Ikaruga. I also think it's funny how Treasure's most acclaimed and re-released game is also their dullest.

>>8584767
>reviewers unfavorably compared every new shmup to Ikaruga
This is true, people who don't play shmups (such as those reviewers) don't understand the appeal, so they always think a shmup needs some sort of special gimmick or twist to make it worth playing, and Ikaruga in particular was a game that reinforced this idea. The thing that is silly about it is that there are a number of shmups with interesting gameplay mechanics (like the bullet absorption in Mars Matrix), Ikaruga just happens to be a more overt example.

>>8572686
Schumps I'd recommend:
Dangun Feveron
Armed Police Batrider
Mars Matrix
Gradius Gaiden
Gradius V
Darius Gaiden
G-Darius
Dariusburst Chronicle Saviours
R-Type III
R-Type Delta
Einhander
Espgaluda
Bangai-O
Pocky & Rocky (there's a new one coming out in April)
Thunder Force 3-5
Grind Stormer
M.U.S.H.A.
Super Star Soldier
Final Soldier
Soldier Blade
Ketsui
Gaiares
Metal Black
Border Down
Dragon Blaze
Gunbird 2
Castle Shikigami series
Psyvariar series
Astebreed
Perfect Cherry Blossom
Imperishable Night
Blast Works
Cho Ren Sha 68K
Noiz2sa
Warning Forever
Rayforce
Raystorm
Zero Wing
Soukyugurentai
Raiden Fighters series
Raiden IV

. >>8585778 here, I forgot to mention:
GG Aleste series
Xexex
Cho Aniki series
Eschatos
Ginga Force

>>8585778
Good list, I'd add Raycrisis on to that, bit of a hidden gem, it's just as good as Raystorm (even better IMO). Coincidentally, I just found a recent gameplay vid of it as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK3fcH7q3H8

>>8584767
Keep seething chud, you are on the wrong side of history

>>8585945
Fair, I didn't like it quite as much as the first two, but if OP enjoys them he may as well follow up with Crisis.

>>8572736
>because it sucks, memorization ruins it and is very repetitive

there's not a single shmup that does not rely on memorization and isn't repetitive.

>>8586036
Yeah it did take a little while for me to get into it vs the previous two in the Ray series as well, but there's just something about it that keeps me coming back vs the other two. I think the way the stages, bosses and music sort of change algorithmically is really cool, each playthrough is a bit different and that really keeps it feeling fresh. I think shmups in general should explore that concept further. Rayforce and Raystorm are better as an experience when playing through the first time, but RayCrisis has more replayability IMO (if you can apply that term to shmups, as they are meant to be replayed over and over by design, but you know what I mean).

>>8586041
True, Ikaruga kinda takes it to the extreme though.

>>8586064
Now you're making me want to go back and play RayCrisis. (Still got my PS1 copy)

>>8574218
Ruh-roh, it's the Treasure-hating schizo. Better watch out for him, he's a tough guy.

>>8578867
this makes sense, and that kind of gameplay is organic and a lot of people find it fun.
chaining, rank management, scoring etc. seem artificially tacked on and take away from the fun, and I wonder how many people see a smorgmagorg of bullets and subconsciously think 'I can't pay this'

>>8576698
>Go see what happens if you say you like Super IV in a Castlevania thread.

That's literally the same guy as the "Trashure" troll schizo, he claims that Treasure devs worked on Super IV and comes up with retarded reasons for why it's bad

>>8576754
Even though this post reads like bait, it shows a big reason as to why people don't like shmups. Most people just don't see value in honing their execution and consistency on things they've already beaten once, unless there's something like RNG or new characters/weapons to make it different enough.
Hell, there are even people who will not play modern roguelites without metaprogression because they "don't want to waste their time" on a failed run with no unlocks or stat gains.

>>8572728
If its childrens entertainment then why cant you beat any of these games?

Because its not and you dont know what youre talking about

>>8586838
>dad: pokemon is just for kids
>kid: then why can't you name every pokemon and their main abilities & weaknesses dad??
>dad: I have more important things to d--
>kid: COPE x SEETHE

>>8586846
Dad doesn't seethe on internet forums about games having to be specifically tailored for himself, or people enjoying a very niche, pretty much dead genre. You are seething because you suck at hand eye coordination or memory. It's really fine to keep scrolling and ignoring the threads discussing these games. Instead, you're here, seething.

>>8586836
>things they've already beaten once
And here’s the other side of it: if they credit feed or cheat through something, and they’ve seen the ending, then think they’ve done the work and the game is now used up, even though they haven’t learned a thing about the game.
If they spend 50 hours on a game with a static gameplay loop but with new content getting swapped in every so often, then they feel like they’ve got a better value because they don’t get to see the end credits until they’ve gone through all that content.

>>8586836
Which is why I made the suggestion earlier in the thread that games should have things like gold medals and story files you can earn in each stage. Maybe throw in a few unlockable ships/characters too.
It's entirely an aesthetic difference, but it taps into people's monkey brained desire to amass valuable objects a lot more effectively that an abstract score does.

>>8587714
I think a few mobile shmup releases tried to capitalise on those ideas, seemed to have worked to some degree, sadly the games themselves weren't great.
I think it's hard to add things like multiple ships and keep things balanced with the scoring and everything (most shmups with more than 1 ship, it seems people always stick with "the best ship" for scoring). I actually don't mind the idea of having an item shop with new weapons etc between stages, but the games that do those things tend to really lack quality gameplay, like, I would actually have really liked Jets 'n' Guns if the gameplay itself wasn't the usual euroshmup disaster (inertia/weird physics, too many empty feeling stages, bullet spongey enemies, health bar...). I think Jets'n'Guns 2 might have been a good improvement, but I never played that one. There actually are some good euroshmups though, like Iridion 3D (3D is a bit dodgy with the hit detection sometimes, still great fun though and very graphically impressive) and Iridion II on the GBA.

>>8586125
It's worth a go for sure, really fun game. Initially it feels shorter or like it has less content than RayForce & RayStorm, but I think it actually has more what with the whole stages changing every time you play thing.

>>8572686
its kinda boring
cotton2 & boomerang are better games that you should play instead

>anti treasure anon
watch this, twice as powerful

>>8589493
RayForce is still the best game in that series though IMO, not just as a good shmup, but as an actual work of art too. I like Cave and bullet hell games, but honestly Taito are pretty underrated, some of the games they made like Darius Gaiden really take you on a journey, it's like, they weren't just making shmups or arcade games, they were truly creating an experience for the player. Taito were the masters of that kind of shmup in my opinion.

>>8578823
>>8578839
I was thinking about this and a normal person looks at Dodonpachi or Ketsui and there is nothing that sets those games apart from each other. For a shmup fan the scoring systems are completely different but casually both are games where you choose if you want to be slow with a wide shot or fast with a narrow shot, where you hold the attack button to change your shot, where you have bombs and so on. Meanwhile a casual looks at R-Type's force mechanic or the Ikaruga color switching (or the Gradius options too) and it's immediately obvious what sets those games apart from the rest. It's an easier sell.

>>8590870
But ketsui is just DOJ extended, same graphic engine, similar music etc, just different shot and scoring system (and ketsui has the "bullet morph" stuff with changing trajectories etc). It's a bad example. A casual can tell the difference between dangun and esprade.

>>8576698
>Go see what happens if you say you like Super IV in a Castlevania thread.
Quite rightly. The only selling points it has are that it's easy and that it has good graphics. It compares badly to the other games in every other category so it's no surprise when someone comes in and effectively says to everyone 'I like this game the most because it looks nice and is easy'.

>>8591116
it's good sorry about your taste

>>8572686
Because shmupfans are mentally ill and the joke of the arcade community.
You will never be respected.

>>8591185
im not mentally ill i just like dodging and shooting and making numbers go up

>>8591185
still samefagging it up I see

>>8591185
There's that fag-talk we talked about.

>>8591191
Your post and pic made me laugh. I don't know why shmups have been getting so much hate on /vr/ as of late, pretty divisive genre I guess, but still. Probably just a couple folks who have some sort of personal vendetta. I don't think there's many criticisms you can apply to shmups that don't also apply to other games, like platformers (strict routing, anyone?).

>>8590893
>ketsui has the "bullet morph" stuff with changing trajectories
I always found it weird how Ketsui is the one Cave game with the most elaborate, 'twisty' bullet patterns like that, maybe I'm forgetting a couple games, but off the top of my head Ketsui's the only one where that is really prominent, which is odd considering the more realistic future military theme/setting. Feels like something that would fit better in Espgaluda 1 or 2 or something.