/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8550932
There is more documentation on the Genesis' hardware compared to the SNES'.

>>8550932
Because why code for a 6502 derivative when you could code for a 68000?
Also there are good dev tools for MD

>>8550932
Easier to program for/more in common with other platforms.

Has stateside and ‘cros th pond appeal.
The Super Nintendo and genesis may have sold neck and neck.
But remember that the snes’s sales were split largely between Japan, and America.
The genesis’s sales come mostly from America, and a large chunk from places like Brazil

There aren’t a ton of Japanese devs in the business of one off nonprofit passion projects for old hardware. They’d be put to work. No time for silly hobbies ofc ofc

So for genesis, a larger percentage of its old user base is in a country where fan games and stuff run free far more often

America and pal territories birthed the whole demo scene and stuff to begin with, we’ve always liked homebrew and shit.
In Japan, getting similar success is hard as fuck
So when you put that all together, I think it’s a pretty understandable situation

>>8550932
Genesis fans are creative, SNES fans just want to make SMW hacks.

>>8550953
There is a healthy homebrew scene in Japan, but it’s more centered around PC games, Famicom and GB carts, and esoteric DIY hardware (like hosts for audio chips from various systems)

>>8550932
maybe they just like being able to multiply in hardware instead of using lookup tables

homebrew devs don’t want to include extra processors on carts, and many late-gen AAA SNES games had those so you’d be falling short of that standard and underwhelming your audience. and SNES development is just more challenging, and for relatively little reward unless you want to use some of its more underutilized features. people only put up with it at the time because that’s where the market was.

how many times do you have to be told
genesis does what nintendont

Because the SNES is a pain in the ass to program for.

>>8551039
Simple as.

>>8551039
based

>>8551039
wow

Genesis does, bitches

>>8551039
>genesis does what nintendont
Beat me to it. Hats off anon.

>>8550991
>SNES has no multiply op
uh
wat

>>8551327
That's common for older CPUs.

Like >>8550995, a lot of SNES games use a variety of processors and other special chips to make the game work better, making homebrew development harder unless you want your game to look and play like ass. The community is also mainly focused around mods and romhacks instead of fully new games thanks to the popularity of SMW romhacks which have a variety of different tools and software to help you with. The Genesis is also easier to program for and you can do a lot with it, meaning that more homebrew devs are drawn to it.

>>8551343
we truly live in the golden age. what about the Z80?

>>8551351
no. just wait until you hear about division and square roots.

>>8551327
we got too cocky snezz brah

>>8551352
luckily I am an EXPERT PROGRAMMER and have perfected a method for efficiently approximating inverse square roots.

>>8550932
Like everybody here already said, its just easier to code for.
That's why those Russians managed to make all those Mortal Kombat hacks for the Genesis and the only things the Snes versions got are palette fixes.

>>8550932
Good luck trying to do a good action arcade game on snes. That's why they choose based Sega Mega Drive.

>>8550957
I guess that’s true, but like you said they’re not really focused on this stuff to begin with

>>8550995
there are only 73 SNES games out of 1727 total that use enhancement chips and about 10 of those are worthwhile games, the rest being sports/Japan-only shovelware.

>>8550932
Because the 68k is based and SNES is cringe

>>8550956
Not to mention that a lot of the reason why nintyfags just make a million romhacks is because nintendo are a bunch of cunts who will DMCA you if you actually put out an original game of one of their IPs, like what happened with AM2R. Meanwhile Sega allows anyone to freely make their own sonic fangames and so there's an entire thriving ecosystem of that stuff. While nintendo shit is stuck in the ghetto with nothing but a million bullshit kaizo romhacks

now I will explain:

>SNES has a potato CPU
>that has 16-bit registers and 64k memory segments like a DOS PC
>there are two different memory maps depending on whether FastROM or SlowROM is used (but there'd be no reason in this day and age to use the latter anyway)
>the video RAM limits you to 16k reserved sprite space
>sound is sampled and sounds fuzzy due to only 64k audio RAM
>the DMA was busted and didn't work on early SNESes so you couldn't instantly blit graphics into the PPU RAM like you can do on Genesis games
>when it comes to the basics like processing power and being able to move things around the screen it doesn't really do anything better than Genesis--sprite capabilities are about the same actually less since 16k sprite RAM limitation
>what you get is mainly some more colors and a few cheesy graphics effects like Mode 7 and three scrolling layers as opposed to the Genesis's two
>also SNES CPUs tend to self-destruct and a lot of people who would want to make a game for one can't test it because their SNES shit itself

Genesis has:

>68000 which is powerful CPU used in everything and is easy to code
>has 32-bit registers and completely flat memory
>the generally simpler VDU and APU make it easier to get a game running
>DMA actually works
>you can use as much VRAM as you like for sprites

>>8551305
Haha pwned

>>8550932
The mega drive has a lot more autistic fans
Not to mention majority of those recent suck a massive dick, it’s best to play modern games styled after retro ones because it seems the only reason a lot of these are made is to trick hipsters into buying them

>>8550953
I think the fact that a lot of these guys are Euro demosceners is a reason, because Sega was relevant in Europe and Nintendo wasn't back in the day. Many of them are also Amiga -heads and it's easy for Amiga -heads to code Mega Drive stuff due to the shared CPU (even back in the day many commercial Mega Drive games were made by Amiga veterans),

>>8551408
Were the wider registers all that useful?

>>8551419
there's a lot of people who have a soft spot for Sega as lovable losers even to the extent that the Saturn has a decent homebrew community while nobody gaf about the N64. i think a lot of people tend to dislike Nintendo for their Lex Luthor evil corporation tendencies. also the fact that their consoles after the NES steadily got more and more useless/underpowered/hard to program.

>>8551372
Oh yeah dude, no one likes Megaman X or Metroid or Contra or super GnG or castlevania etc

>>8551431
I like Metroid and all but it doesn't exactly spring to mind as an action title.

>>8551429
You’re an idiot and a fanboy

After what Nintendo have pulled on their fanbase, only the truly autistic would even be their fans. Sega has always appreciated their fans (even the eccentric sonic fandom)

>>8551427
Mega Drive games commonly do use 32-bit calculations so I would say yes they were.

>>8551039
based

>>8551441
they couldn't stop you from making OC homebrew, it's more an issue of the SNES is just annoying and janky to code on

>>8551447
Sure but the fact that nintendo actively antagonizes its fanbase doesn't help the situation at all

>>8551438
See
>>8551438

>>8550995
>people only put up with it at the time because that’s where the market was
it's the same deal with retro computer. nobody really bother with Apple II homebrew unlike C64 because it's pretty crap and people only did it back in the day because there was a giant horde of public schools to sell software to.

why care, "new" games on old systems are bound to be onions shit

>>8551441
Nintendo never manage to figure out that business isn't a zero sum game.

>>8551467
I’m not, as I own and play all consoles
There are games to love on both and being a fanboy is only fucking yourself over

>>8551469
Apple II was irrelevant in Europe as well so none of those guys care about it.

>>8551383
>like you said
I didn’t say that. Have you ever heard of doujinshi or Comiket? The culture of amateurs making things is huge in Japan.

the 65816 is junk, it only exists because Apple got WDC to make an expanded 6502 for the Apple IIgs and Nintendo chose it mainly for NES compatibility (that ended up not happening anyway). The stock 65816 didn't even have a multiplier/divider, Ricoh had to bolt one onto it.

SNES games do tend to feel like wading through tar (FastROM games are a little better desu), they don't have that light, instantly responsive feel of Mega Drive games.

>>8551746
Some of the deficiencies of the SNES would be more tolerable if it did have that NES compatibility.

>>8551049
basically, the 16MB CPU address space is split into two 8MB blocks, the SlowROM and FastROM block. if you use SlowROM memory segments are 32k and if FastROM is used then they're 64k, hence there would be either 256 or 128 memory segments depending on which is used. due to cost reasons no SNES game used a ROM greater than 6MB--Star Oceans was actually 12MB but compressed down to 6.

>>8551408
>also SNES CPUs tend to self-destruct and a lot of people who would want to make a game for one can't test it because their SNES shit itself
This was caused by Nintendo skimping on the power rails on earlier production models, but it's not an issue for RGB or 1-CHIP units. If you have one of the "bad" SNESes you'll see a dark vertical bar in the middle of the screen which was caused by voltage sag during RAM refresh. This can be fixed by installing a 7805 regulator with a higher rating or attaching a 16V capacitor to the existing 7805. It didn't cause immediate failure but over time would gradually damage the chips from exposure to voltage spikes.

>>8551784
Ebay scalpers know this and overcharge you for 1-CHIP units plus as they're later production units they're not as common as the SHVC and GPM.

>>8550932
>Easier to program for (due to SGDK)
>SEGA were the underdogs and have really dedicated fans
>SNES was popular in USA, home of lazy people.

>>8551039
Based frog

The SNES's library outside first party/Square/Enix underwhelms.

>>8551408
the SNES has a few more controller buttons but many games didn't use all of them anyway

>>8551405
i think Sega are just happy for the free marketing and the touching thought that anyone remembers them and their IPs

>>8551387
I didn't know it had that many games.

>>8550932
They are mostly made in regions where the Megadrive was more popular than the SNES.
/thread

>>8552034
It did but that includes a _lot_ of Japanese shovelware such as shit licensed anime/manga titles, puzzle games, and sports crap.

Western games tend to get rather maligned compared with Japanese ones but generally speaking the ones on the Mega Drive were better than those on the SNES. This was also probably because a lot of Western Mega Drive games were done by Euro Amigafags who had a lot of 68000 experience.

>>8551408
Would have been nice if SimCity and Civilization had been on the Mega Drive rather than the SNES where the computer's turns take forever and ever.

>>8551431
>Super Metriod
>Action arcade title
That game slows down when there is over two enemies on screen.

>>8552046
The SNES had more sports games than the Mega Drive, but they occupied a bigger proportion of the latter's library, also most of the Mega Drive's sports stuff was Western-developed and there were less than 20 Japanese ones.

>>8552096
Probably needs the SNES's extra RAM.

>>8551327
it does actually, it just isn't very efficient so most games used lookup tables instead. actually most genesis games did too, but a lot of the better ones used hardware multiply for at least a few things (like treasure's segmented bosses, and maybe sonic's physics)

>>8552467
what's the mnemonic

>>8551429
it's a shame, because the N64 really is the ultimate lovable loser system and actually did have superior potential that was hard to unlock unlike most systems people claim this of. I think some of the saturn enthusiasm is just a machismo thing due to its reputation as a dev nightmare. playstation on the other hand was pretty much maxed out by commercial releases.

>>8551408
>the DMA was busted and didn't work on early SNESes so you couldn't instantly blit graphics into the PPU RAM like you can do on Genesis games
wtf? I'm pretty sure some SNES games do this, so did they just not care about breaking early SNESes past a certain point?

>>8552509
The bug is fairly specific, it only happens when you use DMA and HDMA at the same time. Disappointing and limiting but avoidable.

>>8552451
you can stick extra RAM in a Mega Drive cartridge of course but it was only done for save games not expanding the available work RAM the way NES games did.

>>8552489
I wouldn't call the N64 a loser, they sold enough (albeit mostly in North America) and Nintendo didn't lose money on them or literally almost destroy themselves as a company like happened with the Saturn.

>>8552394
>muh slowdown
Yeah dude the mega drive never has slowdown

>>8552536
For modern homebrews this wouldn't really be an issue, you can easily add cartridge RAM if the onboard 64k isn't enough. Back in the day it was probably too expensive.

>>8552553
It was a far greater problem for the SNES than the Genesis.

http://raregame.ru/file/50/SNES_Carts_List.txt

This shows what SNES games have cartridge RAM. Probably a lot of these are for battery saves but I could be wrong. Also it's interesting that there are some games with only 2k cartridge RAM; by the SNES's time one would assume it was just cheaper to use 16k or up.

>>8552558
There is slowdown all over its main titles
I’m sick of fanboys pretending that it was never an issue
Fucking Sonic had slowdown issues

>>8552472
https://ersanio.gitbook.io/assembly-for-the-snes/mathemathics-and-logic/math

They're not actually CPU instructions, the multiplier/divider is part of the PPU and is accessed by poking at hardware registers. Observe that you're cautioned how some of these are also used by Mode 7.

>>8552569
only when there were a million rings onscreen, not during normal gameplay. the only genesis game with truly bad slowdown is thunder force 4.

>>8552489
The PS1 is too clean, too easy, and too boring to program on.

>>8551419
agree with this, Cyber Shadow is better than every homebrew game I've ever played put together.

>>8552569
Nintenbabbies diaper needs to be changed. He's getting a little pissy.

>>8552592
This is how I feel about Unity.

>>8552569
All the flagship Konami games for the system are infamous for their slowdown. Super Ghouls n’ Ghosts too.

>>8552489
On Saturn you can at least enjoy a top-class 2D game from the peak of the medium without compromises. On N64, everything is a compromise.

>>8552662
Except for slowdown and ugly meshes of course.

>>8552647
No I have and love all three main 4th gen consoles
Pretending mega drive has no slowdown is lying

>>8552682
And you shift arguments. I never claimed the Genesis didn't have slow down, it just didn't do so when there were over two enemies on screen compared to Super Metriod.

>>8552682
PCE genuinely has less slowdown than MD i think, but SNES easily has the most. SNES can slow down when barely anything is even happening, MD doesn't do that.

>>8552585
the slowdown in TFIV would even be tolerable if not for the fact that the music slows down at the same time. couldn't even manage a z80 sound driver like every other game.

>>8552696
I feel like anyone who says shit like this hasn’t played many games

>>8551060
>>8551061
>>8551295
>>8551305
>>8551849
Even the PCE is faster with brighter colors.

>>8552779
yeah but the games look like fc games

>>8552784
Not the 8 megabit and CD-based games.

>>8552665
>slowdown
In what games?
>meshes
In what games?
Shitty ports like SotN?

>>8552784
As time went on and card and cd games got bigger, they looked much better, same thing happened to all consoles you know.

>>8552784
What game?
I don’t know any that looked like a famicom game

Many of the homebrews I've seen look like shitty phone games, they're in no way comparable to the old Konami, Capcom, Square, etc classics.

>>8552825
I think he's talking about how it only had one background layer.

>>8552827
well it took 2-1/2 years for a team of 15 professionals to make Super Metroid so...

>>8552647
the console wars ended when you were a child, big boy

>>8550932
To compensate for its lack of games.

>>8552847
Probably working 10+ hour days.

It seems the PCE is a bit unbalanced in design, like having a 7+mhz 6502 variant but with only 8k of RAM. I'm not sure how anyone was able to manage with that given the general complexity of games on the system.

i never understood why people complain about the SNES's sprites other than that you can only use 16k of the video RAM for them

>>8552918
The issue is how the MSB of the X position and size of the sprite are stored separately. But worse than that is how it shoehorns 4 entries into one byte, making for slower and more complicated code to parse them. This is one reason for SNES slowdown issues, albeit an obscure one that only codefags would understand. For the record, since the OAM is contained in the PPU (just like it is on the NES), they could have easily just made it look like 768 bytes (i.e. one address per entry) but not store the redundant bits (resulting in about the same amount of die space). Would have made things much easier for developers, even if that most likely took a hit in DMA bandwidth.

>>8552914
I think that’s part of why the CD upgrades came so quickly. By the end it had 256kb of RAM.

>>8552918
probably just people always bitching

>>8552928
tbqh you only have to actually do this once when setting up a metasprite. Really though, making a good VRAM engine is much, much worse.

Mega Drive programmer here. I've generally found working with it pretty easy because of the simplicity of the 68000. And also data management is a lot easier. I'm kind of retarded and don't understand data banks, but on the Mega Drive you can put files literally anywhere as long as it's close enough for the program counter or some shit. And as others have said there's also better documentation. Sound on the console is a fucking nightmare though, I've been at it for like 5 or 6 years and it still makes no fucking sense. Just use a pre established driver like SMPS or GEMS and copy paste some Ristar songs and call it a night.

Regarding Mega Drive development, is it a pain in the ass to make music for it (ie famitracker is very bloated), or are the music tools both easy to use and have reasonable code footprint?

>>8552914
8k was adequate at the time when the PCE was designed. Most games never need all of it anyway, even SNES and Mega Drive games typically use no more than half of the available RAM.

>>8552946
>I'm kind of retarded and don't understand data banks, but on the Mega Drive you can put files literally anywhere as long as it's close enough for the program counter or some shit
yeah the memory space is flat and the highest your PC is going to ever reach is $3FFFFF. on SNES you have to organize everything in retarded 64k memory segments like a DOS PC so there's separate code/data/stack segments etc that have to be referenced.

>Sound on the console is a fucking nightmare though, I've been at it for like 5 or 6 years and it still makes no fucking sense. Just use a pre established driver like SMPS or GEMS
even back in the day hardly anyone could figure out the sound on the Mega Drive and like 70% of games just used the GEMS driver. some Japanese devs did more advanced stuff but there are still a lot of things it can do that were never really attempted in its commercial lifespan.

NES/Gameboy/Master System are worse because it's all bank switched and you have to be swapping banks constantly unless it's a very short game.

>>8552960
Japanese devs had an advantage with MD because of the sound hardware’s similarity to what was in the PC-88 and PC-98.

while 4th gen is my favorite era of vidya I think they're the worst targets for homebrew because of the low results relative to effort you get out of them

>>8552996
That's pretty defeatist even putting aside bullshit like Paprium.

>>8553002
no. what i meant was 8-bit machines like NES, Atari 2600, ZX Spectrum, etc have very obvious limitations you know so you're pretty much designing a game around what they can't do. with SNES, etc you can get far into programming something only to find it doesn't work and stuff like Unholy Night or Paprium proves it.

>>8553009
To counter that, Xeno Crisis and Pier Solar are great

>>8552581
>blah blah blah but the multiplier/divider
isn't even that useful anyway. while the Mega Drive's is faster than the SNES's because it's part of the CPU, it's only useful for a few tasks especially score counters and most of the time you'll just use a look-up table instead. on 8-bit machines you don't have a multiplier/divider unless there's a 6809 involved but it's rarely an issue even there as it doesn't take any great amount of clock cycles to do it with bit shift instructions.

I agree a lot of people look at the SNES especially its CPU/memory mapping and are put off when they can just make stuff for the Mega Drive and its much much better CPU and flat memory map.

>>8553009
A little unfair assessment but I agree the 16-bit consoles have a less clear distinction than 8-bit machines between what you can do on them and what you think you can do on them.

>>8550932
For SNES you have to add lockout chips, deal with the different cart shapes on different regions, the cpu is basically 8-bit with like two registers to use, and above all you have to deal with Nintendo being olympic gold winner arseholes.

With Genesis, Sega either does not care or outright buys your game for official distribution (see the recent Darius port), and the 68000 is insanely fucking fast and can do wonders (you can do vector dot products something like ten times faster than on the SNES). Also you can make universal carts that work on all systems, and the carts are just a ROM chip and a capacitor, nothing extra.

>>8553114
>and above all you have to deal with Nintendo being olympic gold winner arseholes
Nintendo can't do anything to you unless you used their IPs in your homebrew.

>>8552808
>In what games?
Literally every Saturn game that isn't Virtua Fighter has slowdowns.

>>8553114
It's probably a smaller time budget creating the graphics for a Mega Drive game because there's not as many colors and you have only two background layers to fill instead of three. That's not to say SNES graphics can't use lower color depths or only 1-2 background layers but people tend to expect that stuff and there'd be no point in making a SNES game if you didn't make use of the few things it can do that the Mega Drive can't.

I think SNES fanboys are more annoying and demanding in what they expect a game to look like ie. Mega Drive fans won't mind if you make a basic shitty arcade shmup but SNES fanboys will complain if it doesn't look like late period AAA RPGs.

>>8552960
>there are still a lot of things it can do that were never really attempted in its commercial lifespan.

For example? It already had multichannel PCM playback in commercial titles (Mortal Kombat 3, and Toy Story had a fully functional Amiga MOD player...)

>>8553114
>and the 68000 is insanely fucking fast and can do wonders (you can do vector dot products something like ten times faster than on the SNES)
of course being able to just point to a memory location and access it is nice whereas on SNES you have to be leaping around 64k memory segments

>>8551789
1chip also has the clearest video quality even with shitty video cables.
The last revision of the SNES before 1chip was also very good, but it needs shielded video cables and the aforementioned capacitor added to the voltage regulator or the 7805 replacement.

>>8551039
OP BTFO

>>8553002
>bullshit like Paprium.
Paprium is overall a fun game and I'm tired of pretending it's not

>>8550932
For me the 3 reasons I am interesting making genesis games are
1. the console wasn't pushed as much as it should have been
2. higher resolution than snes
3. a lot easier to program than 8 bit systems, they have trouble with numbers over 255

simple as

>>8553204
>>8551784
the SHVC is the most likely revision to shit itself and it accounts for most dead consoles but any SNES that has that vertical bar could be affected and you should make the above-mentioned mods to yours before it's too late

>>8552914
it has a tiny RAM because it's SRAM, which is what allows the processor to be so fast.

Konami's SNES output fell a bit short compared to their NES games. Interviews with Konami staff indicates that they did kind of think the SNES was a lemon and I'm sure they would have preferred it use a 68000 like their arcade games did.

>>8553226
>a lot easier to program than 8 bit systems, they have trouble with numbers over 255
Z80 has 16-bit registers although a lot of its features are fairly useless and the "stripped" Gameboy CPU makes a bit more sense since it got rid of all the junk you'll never need.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAhkGAjgRuo

yeah SimCity is dog poop slow. the Mega Drive would have been better at this.

>>8553173
the FM component had some undocumented features like the envelope looping registers and the channel 3 speech synthesis mode (though this might be impractical to use in games, I dunno). but generally speaking FM theory is gnarly and most people just made cliched basses and bells instead of trying to do something new with it, which is totally possible with some ingenuity. 4-op FM even with the chip-specific limitations has a much larger sound palette than was ever actually used.

in particular, there are a lot of underutilized ways to cram multiple sound components into a single channel, not just using the typical alg4 or alg5 approach but with a more spectral approach using parallel and cascade modulation.

>>8553303
It seems the Genesis was the only system in the known universe that didn't get a version of SimCity. the ZX Spectrum even got a version but the Genesis didn't? you're breaking my balls, Maxis.

>>8553339
The NES didn't, although we know the reason for that.

It’s because of this dickhead.

>>8553339
Did Cd-i and 3D0 get it? Did Jaguar? Did Turbo Graphics (which is the same as the first to, fringe failure system). Did Neo Geo?

>>8550953
>The genesis’s sales come mostly from America, and a large chunk from places like Brazil
And europe, idiot. Also outside the US, japan, and taiwan, the snes sold poorly and was practically unheard of, even though you could find a few people who owned the mega drive in the mid to late 90s.

>>8551039
Frog gay

>>8553345
they attempted NES SimCity but the 6502 was too underpowered to make it work so they gave up. The Spectrum and Amstrad had (still very cut down) versions but they were Z80 machines so they had more CPU power for the game's algorithms and whatnot.

>>8553386
Spectrum does what Nintendon't.

>>8550950
>>8550956
>>8551387
thus much?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3LY2laM-94A

>>8553339
sounds like a nifty homebrew project and you could just use the Amiga SimCity or something as a basis

>>8553391
>Brit cry about shitrum

>>8553386
Wasn't it on C64 though?

>>8553409
yes but that was basically a prototype that Will Harvey made back in 1985. SimCity is really a 16-bit game and needs more CPU heft than what a 6502 can give.

>>8553339
Nintendo made an exclusive deal with Maxis. Of course they couldn't port sim city to sega.

>>8553279
or Nintendo can just requires 68000 chipset

>>8550932
Why did OP link to this fat beta cuck jewtube? Isnt this basically advertising for the fat beta cuck?

Guess I gotta report this then

It was Shiggy's idea. He thought the concept of a city-building game was intriguing until someone told him SimCity already existed so Nintendo contracted with Maxis to port it to the NES and SNES but the former didn't make it to store shelves. They actively worked with Nintendo staffers who proposed changes to make the game easier/more kid friendly such as being able to take out a bank loan which you could not do in the computer versions.

>>8551039
got em'

The NES SimCity prototype was dumped and analyzed. They came to the conclusion that it was scrapped for being unacceptably slow--there are lengthy pauses while the game is doing calculations.

>>8553512
the game is like molasses on the SNES anyway. would still be fun to do a homebrew Mega Drive SimCity and compare.

>>8553391
The Spectrum/Amstrad versions of SimCity are also really really slow. While computer users would have put up with this you can understand why Nintendo didn't want to subject people to 10 seconds of staring at the TV while it was calculating power grids and whatnot.

>>8553539
How's Mac, ST, and Amiga SimCity running? Just compare those ports to SNES'.

>>8550953
Fact: The SNES is a lot more flexible machine than the Genesis. While the SNES was pushing Star Fox and Donkey Kong Country, Sega was pushing the SCD and 32X because their hardware couldn't do what the SNES could without giant-ass peripherals.

>>8553563
with Macs it's a little bit slippery because there were different generations of them and CPUs but the game came out in '89 and was targeted at original 8Mhz models.

Also the NES didn't have working decimal mode. I don't know if that would have affected game performance though.

The NES SimCity got the axe for a reason. It was inherently not going to work. The block sizes of the commercial, industrial, and residential zones were only 2x2, instead of 3x3 like they were in every other version of the game. Meanwhile every other zone was the same size as the SNES, including gifts. This meant that you couldn't make donut blocks, and the city planning was completely fucked up. And it was slow as shit.

The sound and graphics were good and Dr. Wright was there but with the SNES version out there was no reason to foist this ill-conceived game onto people.

>>8551039
GENESIS
DOES
WHAT NINTEN
DON'T

It’s because Sega is for cool people and Nintendo is for babies. It’s not that complicated.

GEN

>>8553637
ESIS

>>8553642
DO

I felt like the Mega Drive is the kind of console Nintendo would have designed while the SNES was designed a lot like Sega's later kneejerk reaction consoles in a hurry. The SNES only won due to software support, not due to any inherent technical superiority. While the same could also be said of the NES, it also had some advantages over the SMS.

https://youtu.be/gJA7Dq2Auqc

>>8551405
didn't Nintendo get caught once trying to C&D people who did live Mario Kart streams?

>>8550932
>SNES had a smaller library
What the fuck are you talking about?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sega_Genesis_games
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Nintendo_Entertainment_System_games
SNES: 1757
Mega Drive: 878

>>8551039
Fpbp.

>>8553647
WHAT

>>8553680
NINTEN

>>8553685
DON'T

>>8553670
Huh, interesting I thought MD had more?

>>8553670
>>8553701
Fewer in Ameriga.

>>8553670
>SNES: 1757
Over 1000 of those are jap exclusives, while Mega Drive got around 713 official games in the NA, and more if you count Europe and Brazil releases that didn't come out in NA.

The SNES was getting new releases in Japan all the way up to 2000.

>>8553702
Well I guess that makes sense, I mean sega is a Japanese company and Japan and America have totally different cultural appropriations so it makes sense that some game never make it here.

>>8553398
nice looking game, I bet that dude is posting in this thread right now

>>8551489
You can't reason with the mentally ill, anon. Xir thinks Nintendo is actually out to torture and rape xer.

>>8551489
>I CONSOOM ARR CONSORES SO I NO CONSORE WARRING RIKE U
This retard doesn't understand that people simply find comparing the hardware of two systems and how the company that own them managed them fun.

>>8553825
At least back then, ports weren't as clear cut as they are now. There's virtually no difference between God of War on PS4 or PC, but there's a huge difference in all the Shinobi ports. partly due to how the systems themselves worked, partly due to developer skill, and partly due to publisher budget.

>>8553825
>comparing
yeah, sure
that's totally what's going on

>>8553832
Yes and it's fun knowing the capabilities and functionalities of each console and the price points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_2wjHqPMZY

Then again just because you can do a port doesn't mean you should.

>>8553843
The NES port of Shinobi is interesting - actually has all the necessary music but it's never used. Likewise with a minor graphical overhaul (I'm sure this doesn't change the mapper or increase graphics capacity), it can look better than the SMS version. So clearly the Shinobi NES developers didn't care, doesn't mean that the NES wasn't up to snuff.

>>8553564
There were a number of polygon games on Genesis that didn’t require extra hardware. They didn’t run at great framerates, but neither did StarFox.

>>8551431
I wish these weren't on a 10fps console.

>>8553861
I'd rather 10 fps than have only 3 colours on screen

>>8553868
But enough about the NES.

>>8553872
NES has 4 colours

>>8550932
Because Sega is liked more by hipsters than any other console

Probably cuz it did the worst in sales

>>8553398
he really needs to try to be more concise and trail off less when he's talking. he takes fucking forever to get around to saying anything, and i don't think i'ts because he's drunk or fucked up. practice makes perfect.

We've had like 3 threads on this for the past 2 weeks on this very topic. Short version is that there's now simple to use dev tools.

It's kind of a shame that the SNES has such retarded architecture, I'd actually like to use that fat palette, but alas...

>>8551357
I feel like nobody appreciated either of the references in this post :(

>>8554701
I appreciated both but didn't feel the need to give a head nod or whatever. I am still mad moot killed the textboards though.

>>8554704
it was peak comfy

>>8554119
>Sega is liked more by hipsters than any other console
Citation needed. Hipsters are the reason why their is such a thing as the "Nintendo Tax".

>>8555119
Nintendo is more a basedboy Redditor thing, Sega is for "before it was cool" and "big fan of obscure things" hipsters

>>8552847
I agree, yet they were also using much worse development tools than today. You could for example spend like 10 minutes compiling a build that could now be done in 5 seconds. Also FWIW Craprium was largely completed (the main programming) in a couple months but Fonzie that genius then spent 7 years on the graphics and his gay cartridge chip.

>>8555323
I think he spent about 6-8 months on the coding part which back in the day was average for commercial Mega Drive games.

I'm pretty sure even Neo Geo gets more new games than SNES.
Reason is pretty simple; SNES is a bitch to program for and is underpowered.

The SNES is by and far the most neglected major 2D system for homebrew. Pretty much everything else that mattered at all gets stuff.

someone in another thread said there was no Amstrad CPC or Atari ST homebrew. bullshit they have plenty of it.

>>8552847
super metroid was pretty meticulously designed, and is larger than most 16-bit games. and they had worse tools

>>8555354
Now there was plenty of low effort shovelware like this turd that got banged out in like 3 months (also is only 4 megabits).

I'm pretty sure all those shitty SNES Mahjong games were made in like 6 weeks.

>>8553805
yikes.........kinda problematic don't you think?

Wasn't Bebe's Kids made by one guy in a couple weeks?

>>8555376
>>8555367
yeah...let's not forget that most SNES games weren't FF6

>>8553358
Shut up you seething Favala-monkey.

>>8555405
At least learn how to spell favela.

not even sure if there's 65816 compiler that work on modern PC

>>8555409
No.

>>8555752
The absolute state of Nintendo people

>>8555341
Underpowered my ass

>>8556057
SNES CPU is dog slow, this isn't even controversial.

>>8554220
Not a program issue for Alisha Adventure case.
>>8553798
Actually post on SNESdev.

Any recommendations on getting into these homebrew games? Any on steam or publisher site, or are you stuck dropping $60 for a cartridge?

>>8556108
I know micro mages is available as a pc game + rom for $10 on steam/itch.

>>8551039
OP BTFO so hard he will never recover for as long as he lives.

>>8551039
Out fucking skilled.

>>8556108
Nah, they’re pretty shit
Play panzer paladin instead

>>8556108
Skip them, they're awful.
>>8556536
Do this. Modern indies that are retro looking seldom times are good, but Panzer Paladin is one of them. Another one, if you like Zelda LA/Oracles is Prodigal.

>>8556074
slowROM is slow, fastROM comes a lot closer to genesis speed. that's why some SNES games perform like ass and others don't (aside from coding differences)

>>8553564
>Star Fox
The SNES hardware does fuck all in the that game, the cart is doing all the work. The genesis never really had much in the way of enhanced carts, other than virtua racing.

>>8556608
>>8555501

even this piece of crap is FastROM. Nintendo used that setup because ROMs that were compatible with the 3Mhz clock speed of the 5A22 would be too pricey when the SNES first launched, but they expected the cost of them to come down in 2-3 years. in the meantime it could be run with slower ROMs at a reduced clock speed. the Mega Drive has a higher paper clock speed but the 68000 has a low IPS so the actual speed difference between the SNES and Mega Drive (when FastROM is used) is not that significant.

>>8550932
Having a cpu that is actually capable of running C code is probably a significant factor in this. Seriously the SNES cpu is a complete piece of crap in comparison.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WDC_65C816
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_68000

>>8556637
>ROMs that were compatible with the 3Mhz clock speed of the 5A22 would be too pricey when the SNES first launched
why is that the case when it wasn't an issue on megadrive? I think it may have been an issue on PCE which is why hucards were small, but I understand SNES/MD are a lot slower than PCE.

>>8556665
What gave you that impression?

Because fuck the SNES. People don't want to play Mario clones with trumpet music.

They want fast moving beat-em-ups with chiptune techno beats. GENESIS DOES. YOU CAN'T DO THAT ON NINTENDO.

>>8556670
PCE has twice the clock speed of SNES with similar instructions per clock as they're both 6502 derivatives.

>>8556671
The SNES's sound wasn't how Nintendo planned it, it was supposed to be merely a co-processor with the SNES CD but that obviously didn't work out.

>>8550953
>There aren’t a ton of Japanese devs in the business of one off nonprofit passion projects for old hardware. They’d be put to work. No time for silly hobbies ofc ofc
Sorry but you're a retard if you think this. Just look at the VIPRPG scene for a level of dedication and autism which is unheard of in the western sphere.
picrel is DoraDora Island Saga, an Age of Empires-like RTS made in fucking RPG Maker 2003. For free. There is no lack of insanely talented people and no one is being "put to work" if they have a passion project they want to do more than that.

>>8551427
Look at this subroutine from sonic1. Nearly all the instructions operate on 32bit integers. Games with proper physics use 16.16 fixed point math extensive. I believe genesis games tended to on average have more complex physics dues to how easy it was to code.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk4CygRSZNM

holy moly just imagine all the plastic wasted on this and Mahjong games.

>paying like ¥4000 for a fucking slot machine simulation

>>8556769
why are zoomers obsessed with plastic like a few videogames are significant compared to the amount that’s used in modern-day food packaging

>>8556682
Compared to the Mega Drive, though, the games run about the same, but the Mega Drive versions always have more sprites and layers.

6502 is fucking slow compared to 68000 even at the same clock speed. Here's some comparison, a PC Engine FPS game against a Mega Drive FPS.
https://youtu.be/yD0hm1F0qHI?t=471
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86EH6guTWLg
\https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2wBHfVYf8U

>>8556689
And yet, it still has some of the most memorable music of the generation, regardless of what fanboys say

>>8557001
>most memeable music of le generation
Practically every tendie "music" ever.

>>8557007
Last I checked, sonic music has the most memes

>>8550995
This, like all Nintendo hardware there’s a bunch of corners cut that make it tough to develop for because Nintendo refused to subsidize their console price with software sales like everyone else, so Nintendos of any generation are the only console that doesn’t lose money.

>>8557089
The Enemy of Art Is the Absence of Limitations

>>8552784
>>8552803
Jackie Chan PCE is a 4mb game. PCE Gradius is half as big

>>8557064
Both are memeshit, but nintendo music attracts a peculiar kind of audience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwniAZqvdCs

Anyway all 16 bit era music were trash, with the exception of Amiga music.

>>8557106
>I don't even like videogames
it shows

>>8557106
>all 16 bit era music was trash
I take it you have never played thunder force iv? Shit is hype city
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTQIiIKummw

>>8557125
More like diarrhea city.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifd0ktvvX2Y

Because the Genesis is all they have in Brazil

>>8550932
not one of those 3 games is good

>>8551039
based and blastprocessing-pilled

>>8557968
nobody actually believes any of this

>>8551039
God post.

with a SNES game you do have to think about more stuff like the additional colors and 3 scroll planes to fill

>>8553398
poked around his channel a bit and this dude is like /vr/ personified: autistic, lives with his mom, obsessively knowledgeable about older tech and working on his homebrew game. I kneel.

>>8555863
Don't get so upset and insecure, monkey.
t. Sega bro

Megadrive/Genesis have a c/c++ compiler

>>8557106
>Anyway all 16 bit era music were trash,
oh look, it's someone posting an extremely controversial and objectively false fake opinion about things some people hold in very high regard for attention.

>>8553664
Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel, too. (Only one of the Aero trilogy that's better on SNES, in my opinion) Maybe B.O.B., also, but I can't remember if there weather effects in that.

>>8557968
You can always tell when its a zoomer making a meme about a retro thing.

>>8561226
joke's on you I live with my dad

>>8562261
that must be the difference between sega posters and nintendo posters.

>>8553564
Starfox doesn't really run on the SNES. The cart contains a new chip used to run it.

>>8551789
>>8551784
What about the SNES Jr?

>>8561541
>t. zoom-zoom

Because Sega is too broke to sue

>>8563617
Sue over what?