/vr/ - Retro Games

Mario died with this game.

>>8526091
I like it just fine, but it didn't do much for me. Maybe because by the time Sunshine came out I was already 15. the mario games have continued to look more cutesy with release and it started with Sunshine. those piantas look like fat faggots too.

I much prefer it to mario 64, it's my favourite 3d mario

>>8526091
I agree completely.

>>8526091
it's a great game with a below-average gimmick. and we all agree that the gimmicks are necessary because otherwise nintendo's major IP would be the same games every time.

I enjoy it more than 64 even if 64 is objectively the better designed game. Gamecube games just feel better to me, even though a lot of them were rushed and had a shitload of filler or backtracking.

It's got the most fun movement in any Mario game. The idea of replaying Mario Galaxy makes me wince, that game is so fucking slow and the platforming is so boring. By comparison Sunshine is a delight to pick up and play through whenever.

The biggest flaw is definitely the blue coins. The blue coins are a massive chore and they kept me from 100%ing the game as a kid. Not only does the game fail to clarify that there are 30 in each level or which shine of each level some of the coins are, some of them are absolute horseshit. For example, spray a random fish basket off to the side in the dock level, or groundpound one of the random slot machines in the casino. Plus the game doesn't tell you that these are totally superfluous unless you want to 100% the game, unlike 64 where every star helps you unlock more levels.

One of the things I think is blown way out of proportion is the pachinko level. Yes, it's super janky and unfinished but I think a lot of people just struggle with it because they use the rocket nozzle to shoot up into the load zone instead of jumping off one of the boats with the hover nozzle like they're supposed to. If you attempt this level with the rocket nozzle, it's extremely difficult. If you attempt it with the hover nozzle, it's not that bad.

All in all, probably my favorite 3D Mario game. Super Mario 64 is probably objectively better, but Sunshine is just like comfort food to me.

>>8526114
>>8526129
>>8526239
This, best 3D Mario bar none.

It’s pretty creative but bland half of the time

>>8526239
>comfort food
back to r*ddit with your fat greasy homosexual ass

>>8526363
autism

>it's not perfect
Don't concede to trolls. It's a great game and perfect in what it sets out to do. Never hedge your game tastes. People that hate this game will hate it and hate you even if you add a disclaimer.

will never be retro

>>8526091
it's just the trendy one to hate right now. but it's been that way for a while, I feel like this year or the next the cycle will progress and it'll be cool to like it again. same cycle happens with all entries in major nintendo franchises (mario, zelda, etc).

>>8526091
I’m looking forward to revisiting this one soon. I found it disappointing when it came out but I still had fun with it. Didn’t even finish the main game before Wii came around. I’m going to give it another chance though.

>>8526091
the most based take on this game I have ever seen.
Why can't more nostalgiafag zoomers be like you?

>>8526091
I remember seeing a kiosk demo at Toys R Us as a kid and I thought it was the peak of video game graphics.
I finally played it last year on a WiiU in widescreen and 60fps and it was fine. It has a lot of "those moments" so I can see why people call it the worst 3D Mario game, but it's still a good game with a good summer beach theme.

All 3d Mario games -- and all 3d platformers, for that matter -- are trash. Controls and camera will never be accurate or good enough for accurate platforming. The only reason it became "popular" was aggressive marketing by companies who didn't care about gameplay any more and sold "experiences" and pretty graphics to an increasing number of non-gamers, who became today's "gamers".

>>8526565
you sound bitter anon

>>8526565
>gamers
Can you stop using this gay term? It’s irritating.

>>8526091
It IS perfect AND I like it for what it is.

>>8526129
What's so bad about the gimmick? You get to slide across levels at hyperspeed without glitches because of this gimmick.

>>8526696
Based

>>8526705
I always preferred the rocket nozzle.

>>8526239
>It's got the most fun movement in any Mario game.
came here to say exactly this

>>8526418
BASED

>>8526445
I think both these posts are correct

>>8526871
>>8526696
Forgot these, also based.

>>8526091
I like a lot of aspects of Sunshine, I just don't like actually playing it.

>>8526737
The Rocket Nozzle is fun to play around with for a few minutes but it's hardly usable for actual platforming.

>>8526932
exactly.

Really sad how 3D Mario will likely never go back to the absolute perfection that Sunshine's movement was. Mario got absolutely neutered in Galaxy and beyond. At least there's nothing that keeps me from replaying Sunshine every 1-2 years, and 64 is still a lot of fun to play as well.

All the shines are tedious busy work. Half the shines are just ‘climb this big structure’, ‘bring this object to this person’, ‘stand on this moving platform for a few minutes and grab coins’. Doesn’t help that you can’t get 100 coins on any of the levels in a world, you have to pick a certain stage and just hope that’s the right one to get all the coins. 100% of this game is one of the least fun experiences you can have in a 3D platformer. It’s genuinely an issue when phasing through the floor to get to the lilypad level is genuinely the better choice compared to what you’re meant to do: stand on a boat for 2 minutes and jump to another boat and wait the same amount of time. Whole game feels like it’s held together by duct tape. Also the blue coins can go fuck themselves

I rage-quit the game as a kid and then played through it again when 3D All-Stars came out, and it's actually much better than I remember. Blue coins, random spikes in difficulty, lackluster final boss and a fucking photograph for beating the game 100% are complaints I have, but overall I still really liked it
The style, setting and overworld in Sunshine is honestly some of the best in any vidya I've played, and it feels really alive. I like just going around exploring, and the platforming isn't that bad. Just different. Ever since it came out, Sunshine has been shit on, especially after AVGN made his episode on it, but it's a really solid game. The flaws it has are often blown out of proportion

>>8527274
>AVGN made his episode on it
Disregard that, I was thinking of Brentalfloss and his massive fucking hatred for it

>>8526091
definitely the best art direction and setting.

>>8526091
My buddy replays Sunshine every year or so. It's his favorite weekend morning game.

>>8527274
>The style, setting and overworld in Sunshine is honestly some of the best in any vidya I've played, and it feels really alive.
honestly this. Most mario games are Mario just walking through some world full of only obstacles to get through, but Mario Sunshine actually felt like Mario was parkouring a living breathing WORLD, with people and shit. It felt advanced for the time because the technology limited them before, but now Mario had the power to be moving around real locations with life in them. Shame that Mario never went back, closest we ever got to that again was New Donk City.

>>8526091
I'll legit never understand the near autistic level of hates it gets around here. Then again I don't get a lot of the weirdly personal hate stuff gets around here so maybe that's for the best.

>>8527464
It's because it's a Gamecube game

>>8527452
>with people and shit
I agree with your post, but you're a nigger

>>8527480
>being this easily triggered

>>8526091
>>8526114
>>8526128
>>8526129
>>8526238
>>8526418
>>8526445
>>8526495
>>8526962
>>8527316
It's the buggiest, most incomplete mainline Mario game ever released. There's a reason why Nintendo never references or celebrates it nowadays. They're ashamed of it. They scrubbed Isle Delfino off the map in Super Mario Odyssey before release. They know they fucked up.

They know giving it to Koizumi to infantilize it with a toy water gun concept was a mistake.
They know it was the least favorably reviewed Mario game of all time up until that point by fans and outlets.
They know they rushed it out the door in under 1.5 years to desperately try and save the GameCube. It didn't work.

The game was also cringe incarnate, right down to the enviromental awareness ads with the singing chorus of kids.

Honestly, in many ways, it's actually the Sonic Adventure of Mario games. Both of them have:

>An overreliance on the narrative.
>Unhealthy focus on NPCs.
>Crutches for 3D platforming.
>Lots of padding and filler, to artificially extend the playtime.
>Many infamous "that part" moments.
>Tons of glitches and exploits.

I never really understood where Mario fans get off on being so cocky and smug towards Sonic fans when they've had it just as bad in the past.

Is it the fact that it's made by Nintendo that gives it a free pass from objectively criticizing it? Sunshine isn't the 9/10 masterpiece zoomers make it out to be. It's actually more of a... 6/10. Solidly mediocre, only carried by brand name alone... Just like Sonic. Anyone who didn't grow up with Nintendo (And isn't an eternal cubie manchild), can see the game for what it really is.

>>8528757
>it's actually the Sonic Adventure of Mario games
And that's why it's the best

>>8528757

>>8528757
Didn't read. Best mario game btw

Really shit game. Shit controls. Shit 30 FPS. Shit decisions in game like having to restart levels. Felt like a phoned in poor mainline Mario. The start of the bad times really.

>>8528757
Don't care about your Tumblr post, Sunshine is better than every 3D mario since

>>8529084
BASED

>>8528757
>sonicbabby shits up the thread
Like clockwork

>>8528757
Sunshine is miles better than any AUTISM HEDGEHOG game could ever wish to be.

>>8528757
>Tons of glitches and exploits
I don't know if the game has TONS of glitches, but I was pretty surprised when I found a particular glitch that was incredibly easy to replicate. Just water slide in the first bridge of Pianta Village and you'll always fall through the terrain. It's so easy to replicate, and something that can happen in normal play, I can't believe Nintendo didn't fix that before release. They must have been aware.

>>8526363
more like rent freeddit

>>8527464
It was the followup to Mario 64 and completely failed at that job in every single way possible. Mario controls worse and has a much more limited moveset. FLUDD isn't an interesting gimmick and the hover nozzle is actively intrusive to the game's platforming design, and using the spray as intended is incredibly slow and annoying unless you exploit it. The game is clearly unfinished and feels like junk to play, since it's a glorified beta build at absolute best.

One look at the amount of content Mario 64 has versus Sunshine tells you everything. Sunshine is so sorely lacking in anything to do that they had to trash the progression system from 64 where there was such an abundance of stuff to do that you only had to get a little over half the total number of stars in the game to beat it, and getting all 120 is a fun challenge where you'll keep going through real content with the only "filler" being 100 coin missions which tend to be nice challenges themselves in most levels. The reward at the end of that journey was opening up even more of a playground and a lasting gameplay bonus, with the cherry on top of seeing motherfucking Yoshi in the game which was a rad surprise at the time.

Meanwhile, Sunshine is a starved child with ribs clearly visible. There's a mere 50 shines to get to the end of the game, an already clear downgrade from Mario 64's 70 stars... before you realize that unlike before, there's no choice in the matter. Every single shine available outside of the main levels is pointless, and you are forced to do the first 7 missions in the 7 main stages available to you. By the way, Mario 64 has 15 main stages, more than double that amount, all of which boast much better level design and are more memorable to play (plus their aesthetics don't blend together). This is before you get into 64's three REAL Bowser stages versus Sunshine's laughable midgame being a shine in an existing level and its final boss level being a laughingstock non-level.

>>8529934
Sunshine has secret stages, but Mario 64's got it beat in count there too. The Pachinko level is pure jank embodied even though it isn't as meme hard as it's billed as.

Once you do the 50 required shines, you quickly realize that was pretty much all the game has to offer. You can still pick up the other shines available sure, but there just isn't much other content in the game, and they don't DO anything other than slightly brighten the hub area unless you go for all of the blue coins (upon completion of grabbing all of that horrid filler, you're rewarded with a simple screen and nothing else. hooray!). The additional mission in each primary stage was the weakest link that they realized wasn't good enough for the already lacking main game and are the more infamous ones like the Yoshi platforms or the watermelon roll. And that's in a game where one of the stages is a shitty hotel that doesn't have anything even approaching what could be called competent level design.

At the end of the day, nothing Mario Sunshine does surpasses 64 other than the camera, which is downright sad when it was meant to be THE game to show off the Gamecube and how far ahead it was over the last gen. SM64 dropped alongside the N64 and was an instant masterpiece that defined entire childhoods, Sunshine came out a year after its own console dropped and was a straight up embarrassment. Nintendo should be beyond thankful Sakurai busted his ass to get Melee out there so close to launch, because that's the game everyone else remembers about the Gamecube instead for a reason.

I refuse to believe anyone who thinks of the game fondly was old enough to have played 64 on release. I can't imagine playing it and finding it acceptable in any way when the standard was set so high by a game that practically had to invent the genre it was in considering the attempts other developers had made shortly beforehand.

>>8529938
>At the end of the day, nothing Mario Sunshine does surpasses 64 other than the camera
Barely, because Sunshine's camera can be pretty clunky at times. It doesn't autocorrect as heavily as 64's camera, but it spergs out often when you're near a wall.

>>8528937
>Shit controls.
insane

>>8529934
>>8529938
I dunno bro, it's a pretty good game

sunshine has the tighest controls of any mario game
if you disagree you need to get good

I personally like it better than Galaxy

>>8530641
honestly the obstacle courses with no waterpack and a capella choons were pure kino

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EIMCdkoHOQ

Thoughts?

>There's a reason why Nintendo never references or celebrates it nowadays.

low effort

>>8531010
wish it was an actual hack with new levels

>>8529938
It feels great to play tho

>>8531028
you have to remember that nintendo lives in their minds rent free

>>8531028
not to mention all the appearances of the piantas in various other games

>>8531010
Seems like some QoL tweaks mixed in with a bunch of janky weird additions. I never got the appeal, I see people say this is the "definitive" way to play Sunshine all the time but the regular game is honestly fine.
>>8531035
Super Mario Sunshine Arcade 2 has new levels. They're all more in the style of the secret levels from the base game but there's something like 90 of them and there's some unique ideas.

>>8534057
>Super Mario Sunshine Arcade 2
Looks neat, thanks

>>8526239
>It's got the most fun movement in any Mario game.
Such a goddamn shame they got rid of the long jump. This alone makes me prefer Mario 64 movement a bit.

Agreed on Galaxy though. I didn't realize how painful Galaxy's movement was until I replayed Mario 64 recently,

>>8528757
>There's a reason why Nintendo never references or celebrates it nowadays.
Water Park in Mario Kart 8 has Nokis I think, also the Sunshine Airport track is practically a Mario Sunshine celebration

>>8526091
>It's not perfect, but I like it for what it is.

Like a lot of Gamecube games, it was rushed because the PS2 was already dominating, and they needed their biggest IPs out there to attract people to the console. Sunshine is still fun in places but will never feel as complete as something like Mario 64, take that final level in the volcano for instance, it's utter fucking garbage.

Yoshi just isn't fun, if anything he's a fucking hindrance especially the way he evaporates in water.

>>8526418
>just calling a game "not perfect" is a hater troll position
Do Marriors really?

>>8534134
Yeah, arcade is kino.

>>8526091
this shit is bananas
b a n a n a s

The controls were fun, but personally I never loved Mario as a collectathon series. For 64, it was fine since it was a sandbox to explore this new way of moving around in a game. But by Sunshine I was eager for something more directed.

>>8529934
>>8529938
>>8528757

Based. I've felt this way since I beat the game shortly after it came out in 2002. I've been ridiculed for this opinion since. It killed Mario and it almost killed Nintendo for me, which was ultimately done by Wind Waker and Twilight Princess.

Haven't bought a Nintendo game since.

>>8528757
Based per usual anon.

The water looked nice I guess

>>8526445
It's because zoomies have talked this console up to be so amazing. When you do that there's always a crash back down to earth. I warned people on this board but no one listened and now your all really fucked.

>>8528757
this is a pasta but honestly yeah i don't really get why people like it so much. nostalgia?

>>8526109
This. As a kid I could always confide in Mario. He was a good friend, and a better lover. But things were over when SM65 and especially this game came out. He's no longer the man I wanted to be with and so we parted ways.

>>8537845
This was actually one of the copes back then from Nintendo fanboys.

>>8526091
Cute

>>8526109
>>8528757
>>8528937
Perhaps this will be more your speed, zoomers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RtceLMGxeQ

i just don't get why people go out of their way for this mess of a game. super mario 64 is literally 3d super mario bros in terms of impact and genius in simplicity and primitivity while sunshine is like a bizarre expansion pack game with worse game flow, far less linearity, and way more annoying bullshit like the awful difficulty curve. and no levels. basically just play jak and daxter.
yeah it's still a good game at the end of the day but i honestly feel like it's fine just leaving it in the past. galaxy is better and you can even play it in a non cancerous way now it's on switch. odyssey is better despite how much time you've spent going through phases of thinking it's shit because you watched a youtube video

>>8528757
this is an excellent post, very good, this should be posted in every sunshine thread as a totally valid perspective put well

>>8541996
I originally only wanted z-word posters to be banned, but now I've actually started wanting to murder them.

>>8542662
zoomer is literally used on wikipedia as an accepted term to describe a generation.

>>8542672
>Wikipedia says it, so that means you have to say it!
I will never use -oomer buzzwords and I will not stop judging you obvious gen-z members when you call me zoomer.

I have never heard anyone say this outside of the internet so it shouldn't be there. That said, I've never actually heard a single person mention generations outside of the internet, where it's played as some great cultural divide that can be detected by mere words in someone's post.

>>8542682
people meme but at the same time this stuff is and has always been taken seriously too. don't get butthurt just because you dont like muh oomer word meme

>8542682
I'm convinced that anyone who cries about the prevalence of -oomer are just zoomers who just want to shitpost without being called out for it

>>8542694
It isn't the fact that it's derived from -oomer, it's that you homosexuals call everyone who disagree with you zoomer and seem to think that it's an argument.

Regarding the Wikipedia article it claims that "zoomer" is colloquial, despite this no actual evidence of colloquial usage is cited. Instead an article featuring various internet journalists saying it and dictionary.com. The page is locked and I know that there's some shut in on there monitoring the page who's genuinely convinced that it is a normal word that normal people use so there's no use in trying to correct it. I hate that website.

>>8542682
also dude we're getting old, even the zoomers are like starting to deal with real adult problems at this point. sooner or later we're gonna stop being the majority anywhere

>>8542717
The shitposters are the ones saying zoomer you nigger. Just look at that post. You can't really complain about shitposters if you're going to defend that. Nice cope though gen-z faggot.

>>8542725
it's both a normal (albeit casual and colloquial) word as well as a retarded meme used by people fucking around on 4channel. it's not that complicated just stop being a gay stick in the mud

>>8542725
You don't know what "colloquial" means, do you anon?

>>8542725
>>8542735
Take your meds and stop sperging out

>>8542737
Whom do you say this to, then? Would you say it to a female of your age category? If no then zoomer is not colloquial.

>>8542741
Normal speech. That word is internet slang not normal speech.

>>8542747
Nice buzzwords. You don't have a real response.

>>8542756
If you think that the average young person wouldn't be more likely than not to understand what "zoomer" means if you said it in speech, then you're utterly deluded

>>8542759
See >>8542747

>>8542761
You are deluded. Maybe some kid who uses reddit would but no female would.

>>8542756
>Whom do you say this to, then? Would you say it to a female of your age category? If no then zoomer is not colloquial.
what are you even talking about? you seriously need to get off the internet. my ex was a girl of around my age who did indeed use le internet words. because people just talk like that now, people use internet slang and shit. it's not a big deal. i don't know why you need proof that highly popular terms you read all the time 'are really being used'

>>8542768
Kill yourself

>>8542769
You have never spoken to a female

>>8542771
>my ex was a girl of around my age who did indeed use le internet words.
Like what? Based? I don't know a single person who speaks in internet slang irl. That is not how normal people act.

>8542773
Not an argument

>>8542775
Yes I have. What's next, going to call me an incel or something? Get a life.

>>8542779
>Like what? Based?
yes
the internet isn't your secret club anymore man girls use it too. sure i didn't go out with stacy from the block who only has a phone for insta but even she probably absorbs internet terminology. hell i've heard zoomer vs boomer debates have been historically big on tiktok and that's like the biggest thing on the planet with normies

>>8542784
>Not replying to my post
What a baddass

>>8526091

Just 120'd it a couple weeks ago. The tropical atmosphere & music is 10/10 but as others have said - it was rushed out the door.

Once you get past the second world, you know exactly what you are going to have to do to get the shines in each of the following worlds. Chase Shadow Mario, collect the red coins, beat the secret stage, collect the red coins in the secret stage, spray the bird, eat the bees...

>>8542785
This post >>8542779 suggests that you don't talk to anyone irl
>>8542790
Insta in particular is filled to the brim with all sorts of terms like zoomer, based, etc

>>8542790
I don't believe you.

>historically big
>on tiktok
I don't even want to ask. Being a tranny is a big thing on there yet never irl have I heard someone bringing up those made up genders.

>>8542795
I do, however no one talks like this.

>>8542797
You just outed yourself as never actually having spoken to any ordinary people, congrats

>>8542803
I do, however no one talks like this. You can start with some -oomer variation insult now.

>>8542797
you're genuinely out of touch and trying to cope i'm sorry to break this to you man
anyway this is retarded to begin with because "well nobody i talk to..." is some logical fallacy

>>8542813
Let's get this straight, so if I were to go to my 14 year old cousin, and ask her what "zoomer" and "based" means, she would know?

>>8542820
unironically, i would expect her to know, yes

>>8542823
Next time I see her I will ask her this, and then she will look at me weirdly.

>>8542812
I just think you're either a complete shut-in, or you live in a very, very small town. Either way, you do not speak to people who are an actual representation of what ordinary people in Western countries are like
>>8542820
Yes

>>8542829
i don't understand how living in a small town would affect anything since it's not like it is cut off from the internet. I don't know why I'm even arguing this since I know that it's not true.

>>8542835
the point is your small sample size doesn't really prove anything, which is why it's a logical fallacy. logically it doesn't make sense. maybe you haven't personally experienced the phenomenon of internet culture seeping into everyday life but that doesn't make it a lie when people tell you that's the way it really is
i dont know why im phrasing any of this like you're even being genuine with anything you're saying

anyone wanna talk about mario?

reminder that mario sunshine sucks and is prime zoomerbait along with sa2b. zoomers just love this shit i don't really get it

>>8542656
galaxy is fucking lame and i will never understand why it and twilight princess get so much praise

>>8544892
twilight princess is shit, galaxy is a well designed game

>>8542656
>galaxy is better
opinion discarded
galaxy is slow as fuck it feels like a chore to move mario around
sunshine has the best movement of any mario game and will likely never be topped

People who are actually good at video games prefer Sunshine because of the tight, fast-paced and challenging gameplay.

Pseuds who jerk off to "muh sophisticated game design look how they placed this disappearing platform in a safe zone at beginning of the stage to teach you how it works ahhh I'm gonna coooooom it's just like in my Full Sail University course alma mater bros ww@" prefer Galaxy.

>>8528757
Damn, this is a high-quality post

>>8544941
>sunshine has the best movement of any mario game and will likely never be topped
it was topped by mario 64
>>8544958
who cares 64 is better than either

>>8544981
>it was topped by mario 64
wrong
i love 64 for to bits but the spin jump and instant dive and sliding wall jump make sunshine so much better
not to mention that mario's walking/running is just more reactive in general, 64 feels almost sluggish in this regard in direct comparison though it's still light years ahead of galaxy of course no pun intended

>>8542656
>far less linearity
Huh? Sunshine is way more linear then Super Mario 64

>galaxy is better
Galaxy is only better in that it gives more unique moment-to-moment challenges for the player since it's locations and level design is always changing up and it got rid of most of the coin hunting. Also galaxy has way better presentation and atmosphere.

I'm no Sunshine defender but I'll echo the other anon in saying that Galaxy is in many parts lame and solely style over substance. Levels are tiny, levels have no exploration, and the game feels completely on rails throughout the majority of it, Mario feels awful to control, slow and floaty. The moment-to-moment platform challenges the game does throw at you simply aren't that great. Super Mario 3D World executed the linear 3D platform Mario a bit better.

guise

hey guise

you know what would be really cool

how about

guise

how about

OPEN WORLD mario

amirite?

>>8544997
64 isn't sluggish at all, it's very momentum based just like the NES originals. You have to use this to your advantage instead of fighting it, it's the key to how fucking good 64's movement is. Sunshine on the other hand feels downright stilted with how easily Mario stops, there's no weight to his moves anymore.

And no long jump because the hover nozzle is such terrible game design.

>>8544958
>look how they placed this disappearing platform in a safe zone at beginning of the stage to teach you how it works
i don't know why redditors love this type of thing so much it's so on the nose

>>8545782
They're incapable of forming their own opinions on anything and they watched a couple of egoraptor videos

>>8545782
they don't. by commenting on it they're indirectly bragging about understanding game design.

the most obvious example of this kind of behaviour is when shitheads get any insisting a game isn't difficult. they don't care if you believe it's difficult or not, they're just indirectly bragging about how good they are at video games.

>>8545720
>Huh? Sunshine is way more linear then Super Mario 64
that's literally what i was saying

>>8526091
>it's not perfect
the concept was flawed from the start, there's no perfect here

>>8526091
Is good, people are just bad and can't control it better

>>8526109
lol. Mario died with Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario 3D Land/World and (especially) the countless derivative New Super Mario Bros. games. Super Mario Sunshine was great. (and the two Super Mario Galaxy games and Super Mario Odyssey aren't even bad, I just think that era was the point of no return.)

People who like Super Mario 64 but insist that Super Mario Sunshine was horrible will never be anything but contrarians to me.

Super Mario 64 was possibly the highpoint of the series, Sunshine was great, Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 were good games but disappointing in many respects, Super Mario 3D Land/World aren't my thing but definitely passable games, Super Mario Odyssey is flawed but at least decent.

>>8548337
>People who like Super Mario 64 but insist that Super Mario Sunshine was horrible will never be anything but contrarians to me.
Kill yourself you fucking imbecile. I refer to this post >>8528757, which explains why Sunshine, unlike 64, is a bad game.

>>8548343
No that's a shit explanation and just one big "I don't like it!". Kill yourself for even thinking it has merit

>>8548337
>People who like Super Mario 64 but insist that Super Mario Sunshine was horrible will never be anything but contrarians to me.
There are multiple posts in this thread that explain this view in detail. I wrote >>8529934 and >>8529938, I've been immensely disappointed in the game since the year it came out. Galaxy is not a terrible game since it's actually finished unlike Sunshine and has a good amount of content, but it sucks that it doubled down on the horrible ideas Sunshine was already trying to push with its heavier focus on level linearity and missions specializing the stages too much.

Odyssey is not perfect and has many of its own flaws, but it's the closest thing to a proper sequel 64 has ever had.

>>8548337
>People who like Super Mario 64 but insist that Super Mario Sunshine was horrible will never be anything but contrarians to me.
Your projecting your own retarded personality onto others. I say that Sunshine is bad because I played it and think that it is bad, not because of some reason to be edgy and different from other people. Fuck off.

I can tell your age because it used to be normal to hate this game until recently.

>>8548343
It's quite funny how none of them have given an actual response to that post, instead they choose to just keep screeching contrarian even though not liking it seems to be a fairly dominant opinion here.

>>8548360
They literally have no response bro, there's no point in trying to argue with them.

>>8548360
Oh look, a coherent response that doesn't viciously and angrily insult me over a 20 year old video game.

>>8548358
Have a look at the other posts which this anon >>8548360 posted, faggot. In fact judging by the replies it seems that you nostalgiafags are the ones responding with that. You have no fucking argument and you are incapable of defending his extremely terrible Mario game. Kill yourself.

>>8548439
Maybe no one would be angry if you didn't accuse everyone who doesn't like your childhood game of being contrarian. And funnily enough here you don't even bother trying to defend it.
>angrily insult
Like you using contrarian as an insult?

Love this game
I don't totally understand why it gets so much hate
basically this >>8527464

>>8548465
i hate it this much because you don't understand why people hate it

>>8548449
They are being contrarian. Loving Super Mario 64 and hating Super Mario Sunshine is like loving Ocarina of Time and hating Wind Waker or Twilight Princess. I never said people had to love the game, I never even said people had to like it. You're projecting antagonism or forcing people to try to have the same subjective tastes in the game into my reply that was never there. It's fine if they like Mario 64 and hate Sunshine, but acting like Sunshine is an objectively bad game (this is how they're talking in the thread if you haven't noticed) while simultaneously saying that Mario 64 is great is obviously unfair and contrarian, yes.

>Like you using contrarian as an insult?
"Contrarian" is not an insult, "kill yourself you fucking imecile," "you're projecting your retarded..." is.

>>8548469
Just play the game retard, hard to hate it when you're having fun

>>8548494
but i don't have fun... for the reasons anons have described in this thread. just read the thread retard.

What's your favorite part of Sunshine?
>the realistic physics in the pachinko level
>the fun, engaging boat ride with yoshi to get to the secret level on the island
>the awesome boss fights against the polluted piranhas (it's even better the fifth time)
>the awesome boss fights against gooper blooper (it's even better the third time)
>the realistic boat physics in corona mountain
>the fruit baskets (especially the one with the durians)
>the fact that they replaced 24 boring shines with 240 fun blue coins
>the glitches that add unpredictability and challenge
>the watermelon festival

>>8548516
You can't have fun if you go into an experience wanting to hate it. All of the criticisms listed so far are bullshit anyway, the bugs aren't serious or as prevalent as these shitposters have made it seem, the platforming and exploration are ace, there's no way you actually hate it, I refuse to believe it.

>>8548575
>the platforming and exploration are ace, there's no way you actually hate it, I refuse to believe it.
ignoring all the stuff about game structure, game flow, lacking level designs, shines feeling pointless, lack of levels, bizarre difficulty spikes

>>8548591
You're just trying to hate it. The level design is awesome, the shines are fun, the game flows well, the level numbers aren't a problem with how much content there is, and I don't think there are "bizarre" difficulty spikes. Play the game.

>>8528757
Fuck this board really is going to shit

>muh feelings
>muh zoomers
>no arguments just /v/ buzzwords

I had really hoped /vr/ and /vrpg/ would be a rebirth of what /v/ used to be, but it's just the same angry baseless shitposting. I say this as someone who has been browsing 4chan since 2006 (with shame).

>>8528757
Based

>>8548423
>I can tell your age because it used to be normal to hate this game until recently.
it used to be normal to like this game. we can tell your age because of where you are in the eternal like-hate-like cycle of mario and zelda entries.

It's not what I wanted for the first Mario game where the graphics are good enough that the characters actually look like their renders. I would have liked something a lot more traditional that was still set in the mushroom kingdom. But I appreciate it more in hindsight now that we've had plenty of that. It's still pretty weak though. Tying progression to Shadow Mario fights was dumb and so were blue coins.

>>8526129
What is the gimmick, exactly?

>>8549289
Seriously?

>>8526129
Honestly, I'd rather they make more bog standard versions of their IPs, the gimmicks almost never actually improve the games and I end up having fun during the moments that resemble more traditional gameplay. This is especially true of Zelda, I can't think of a single time the gimmicks they add to that series has ever enriched it. They're just the means of getting to the actually fun bits.

>inb4 "what fun bits"

>>8549325
>Seriously?
Yeah, just....yeah.

>>8529934
>controls worse and has a much more limited moveset
Stopped reading right there as it's blatantly fucking false. Mario has all the shit he can do in 64 intact minus the useless attacks and crawl and the long jump which was replaced by the infinitely superior spin jump that gives you height AND distance as oppised to the long jump being just distance. FLUDD also opens up his moveset meaning he has far more options than 64. B being a dedicated dive button as opposed to forcing you to eyeball how fast Mario's going and gamble on a dive or a kick is way fucking better. That and the GameCube having analog camera control already puts Sunshine's control miles ahead of 64's. I guarantee you didn't even play the game and are just parroting opinions you heard from YouTubers who never took the time to learn the game's water mechanics and movement. The big problem here is that you're treating it as Super Mario 64 2
>it was the followup to Mario 64
It followed the same core design principles of enter stage, get a star, exit stage, but that's about where the similarities end. Sunshine should be treated as its own game because that's what it fucking is.

>>8548490
>They are being contrarian. Loving Super Mario 64 and hating Super Mario Sunshine is like loving Ocarina of Time and hating Wind Waker or Twilight Princess.
NO IT FUCKING ISN'T YOU NIGGER. You just listed two near flawless N64 games and then compared them to two utter failures to recapture that. Once again I am not a contrarian, please stop projecting your pathetic attention seeking personality onto others. BOTH OF THOSE FUCKING GAMES ARE CONSIDERED 10/10 AND AMONG THE GREATEST GAMES EVER MADE. Who the fuck says that about Sunshine and Windwaker? No one! So why be so fucking disingenuous?

>You're projecting antagonism or forcing people to try to have the same subjective tastes in the game into my reply that was never there.
Nonsensical gibberish. I don't know what this means please use English. You are not smart. I'm not trying to force anyone to like anything, I'm merely telling you to fuck off when you call people contrarian or whatever the fuck because they don't like your childhood game.

>Sunshine is an objectively bad game
It absolutely fucking is as the other anon has clearly explained earlier in the thread that you have no given a valid response to. Instead you prefer pathetic ad hom and contrarianism accusations because you cannot accept that your fucking game is bad.

>while simultaneously saying that Mario 64 is great is obviously unfair and contrarian, yes.
No that's my honest fucking opinion. Do you actually know what contrarianism means, huh? Because it definitely seems that you're using it as a buzzword insult. You are the biggest cancer of this board.

>>8549215
>it used to be normal to like this game.
No it didn't. Please stop trying to rewrite history. If you fucking niggers start doing this I will collect examples from internet forums in the early 2000s to disprove your pathetic little lies.

>>8549289
>super mario sunshine
>What is the gimmick, exactly?
jesus fucking christ, anon, are you drunk?

>>8549370
>Please stop trying to rewrite history.
I was there; it was a good game, and still is. Please post some cherry-picked forum quotes.

>>8549370
Take it easy, we're not making a western here.

>>8549378
You weren't there. If you continue to repeat these lies then you force me to go full autism.

>>8549380
I'm just frustrated with the sheer amount of dishonesty in that person's post.

>>8549383
>You weren't there.
I'm 32 and owned a GameCube first time around.
>If you continue to repeat these lies then you force me to go full autism.
Bit late for that, mate.

>>8549387
It's going to be a back and forth as neither of us can disprove or prove this, for now. You wait.

>>8549392
I've only just arrived, and I can see it's been back and forth for a while already. Nobody will be able to prove their opinions correct, no matter how long we wait.

>>8548571
I like Sunshine but this made me kek.

>>8549359
I played the game near when it came out, if it wasn't for getting Melee that same Christmas I would have been even more upset about it at the time. Every fucking gaming news outlet had been pushing it as the grand successor that surpassed 64 and advertised how huge the areas were etc which made it hurt even worse. I gave it another shot with 3D All-Stars and it still sucked exactly as much as I remembered, especially since I 100%ed 64 once again right before it for obvious reasons. Though at least that playthrough I understood how to properly use FLUDD, that is to say, how to exploit it instead of using the spray nozzle as intended. That made the game slightly less of a slog.

>The big problem here is that you're treating it as Super Mario 64 2
Everyone else did when it came out and you fucking know that it's what it was intended to be. Nintendo themselves acknowledged this again when Odyssey released.

>It followed the same core design principles of enter stage, get a star, exit stage, but that's about where the similarities end. Sunshine should be treated as its own game because that's what it fucking is.
Yeah, because the game has so little content it wasn't able to be the 64 followup they intended, as my post broke down. It's beyond obvious from the various extra shines there ARE in the game, as well as a shine cap of 120 (fulfilled by blue coins because all of the other stages they intended to have were cut) and how you can enter the very small amount of stages in varied orders despite being forced to do all of their 7 primary missions anyways, that it was originally intended to progress the same as 64 with much more player choice involved.

Even if I were to separate Sunshine from 64 for some asinine reason, it wouldn't change its fate from being an exceptionally mediocre and unfinished title. The visual style all blends together, enemy designs are terrible, level design is middling, and it has the gall to pretend Corona Mountain is a final stage.

>>8549343
The... the water pack anon....

I want to fuck FLUDD

>>8549418
How is that a "gimmick?"
It's a core gameplay mechanic.

>>8549359
>>8549410
>Mario has all the shit he can do in 64 intact minus the useless attacks and crawl and the long jump which was replaced by the infinitely superior spin jump that gives you height AND distance as oppised to the long jump being just distance
64 was clearly made with the movement first, and I believe Miyamoto has been quoted as saying such outright. This is very clear when you play the game as it's insanely fun and natural to do ANYTHING in with how many options there are. It doesn't matter that some are "useless", it's a 3D playground and wanted you to treat it as such. The long jump is such a natural part of game flow that removing it in favor of the hover nozzle which is slow as shit and ruins every platforming section in the game was a downright insult. Sure, you have the spin jump, which is admittedly very broken, but it's nowhere as natural to utilize. Also trying to claim that FLUDD opened up Mario's moveset is a riot, especially considering the only real platforming the game has to offer since they designed it all around the hover nozzle are in the numerous FLUDDless levels where you can truly feel how few options Mario has now that they gutted him. You'll be getting a lot of mileage out of that spin jump sure but that's simply because it's all that's left. (Also, using the various attacks from 64 to defeat enemies remains a normal part of gameplay for me, they were never useless.)

>>8549425
o hai newfriend

>>8549425
Oh I get it, you're a willfully ignorant retard.

>>8549410
You can remove the thing at the bottom that shows how far you're into the video with inspect element btw.

>>8549425
Retard

>>8549425
all core nintendo series have a gimmick for each entry to stop them becoming stale, starting with the sixth gen; the gimmick in fifth gen was 3D.

>>8545935
That's not how it was written:
>while sunshine is like a bizarre expansion pack game with worse game flow, far less linearity
If you were trying to say Sunshine was more linear you would have said "far MORE linearity", you said "far LESS linearity".

>>8549425
nice one

>>8549370
Kill yourself

>>8545720
The Galaxy games were good in their own right, they weren't trying to recapture 64 like Sunshine, they were made to do something new.

>>8549508
Why? I'm an honest contributor to this board and I always put effort into my posts and don't use ad hom nor accuse people of contrarianism. You are the worst of this board, you are the one who ought to kill oneself.

>>8549502
>joke's on you i was only pretending to be retarded
masterful

>>8549513
>I'm an honest contributor to this board and I always put effort into my posts and don't use ad hom nor accuse people of contrarianism.
>NO IT FUCKING ISN'T YOU NIGGER. (Ad hom)
>Nonsensical gibberish. I don't know what this means please use English. You are not smart. (Ad hom)
>Who the fuck says that about Sunshine and Windwaker? No one! So why be so fucking disingenuous? (Accusation of contrarianism)
Please put a bullet through your temple, I'm asking as politely as I can.

Name a game more divisive than Sunshine?

>>8549554
sunshine won't be divisive in a few years, it'll be loved again. by that point, it'll probably be galaxy getting the heat.

>>8549564
I think Sunshine is a 10/10 game, but the difficutly of several levels in the game will always put off a significant amt of people.

>>8549484
The video on Nintendo's channel is private now, I had to Google search for a cap of it.

>>8549582
feels good, man.

>>8549542
>>NO IT FUCKING ISN'T YOU NIGGER. (Ad hom)
>You are not smart. (Ad hom)
More disingenuousness or are you just retarded? You probably think that you're being smart by writing this, which is sad.
>>Who the fuck says that about Sunshine and Windwaker? No one! So why be so fucking disingenuous? (Accusation of contrarianism)
That wasn't an accusation of contrarianism, you said "They are being contrarian. Loving Super Mario 64 and hating Super Mario Sunshine is like loving Ocarina of Time and hating Wind Waker or Twilight Princess.", I wrote that as a reason for why that is retarded: 64 and Ocarina are almost universally considered outstanding games, your childhood games not so much. Yes, it is clear that you weren't being disingenuous are you actually this fucking retarded.

Why do you tell me to kill myself, when you are like this? I am intelligent, you are a moron. You8 are the one who ought to commit suicide. Or maybe you're too stupid to get that too.


>>8549564
>it'll probably be galaxy getting the heat.
No it won't since Galaxy is 1. a good game and 2. was never considered awful in the first place. You can keep fantasizing though, that will never happen.

>>8549582
Sunshine is a 3/10 game. If you think I'm being harsh I'm not, the thing is that most people don't like to rate games they like any lower than 7 making the 1-10 rating system essentially out of 5-10.

>>8549632
>No it won't
no u

>>8549632
Galaxy is the most bland 3D Mario, and I mean that in all sincerity

>>8549650
I disagree, but I understand where you're coming from. Gameplay wise you must admit it is superior to Sunshine.

>>8549656
It really isn’t, especially with the wagglin’ shit.

>>8549656
I never played it because it's not retro and I stopped playing new games after 2005. Sunshine was awesome though

>>8549663
You're wrong and a retard.
>noooooo the hecking motion controls
It's sort of like using a computer mouse and works really well, the shaking is a little annoying though. It doesn't use motion controls other than in two levels.

>>8549665
I get the idea that you posted this because you're mad and have to reassure yourself that Sunshine is good by saying that.

>>8549675
The Star bits are also fucking lame.

>>8549681
In what way? When you're running around collecting star bits is fun.

>>8549582
>It's the difficulty filtering people I swear!
If you have to come up with an excuse when presented with the real issues, that being, that Sunshine is an unfinished game with the few levels that ARE in it being underwhelming with tons of repeated filler missions and the core mechanics being divisive at best and flawed from the outset at worst, not to mention lacking the player choice of the title that came before it, you are almost definitely coping.

Sunshine has a higher difficulty bar than other 3D Mario games, in part due to intentional design and in part due to jank, But it's not THAT hard. Many of the points that people focus on are pretty easy once you get the hang of them. The boat ride in Corona Mountain for instance is pathetically simple compared to how much it's screamed about, and the Yoshi platforms level is simply extremely poorly conveyed though it DOES have an ingame explanation. Does that suddenly make it a good game? Not in the least.

>>8549675
>I get the idea that you posted this because you're mad and have to reassure yourself that Sunshine is good by saying that.
Why would you think I'm lying about having never played galaxy? I seriously never have.

>>8534601
If they had the long jump and the hover nozzle though, then even with the hover nozzle's extreme momentum deceleration, the level design would have to be even more broken and spread out than it already is. I think that the platforming is pretty fun, but the nozzles break the game, especially with how much they end up slowing down the momentum with their use.

>>8528757
based

>>8528757
>such obvious samefagging to agree with one post

I love Sunshine. It's a great game.

Only thing that bothers me, is that there are people who shit on FLUDD, but are okay with Cappy.

>>8550464
The differencei s that Cappy feels good and adds a lot to Mario's mobility but FLUDD requires Mario to stop or slow down to do literally anything other than the turbo nozzle.

Personally speaking, I like Cappy, but I don't like the capture mechanic. And I think FLUDD is fine, I just don't like having to stop to clean up schmutz or hunt down blue coins. The game also has bullshit parts like the toxic leaf raft, pachinko, and blue coins in general.

>>8548423
>I say that Sunshine is bad because I played it and think that it is bad, not because of some reason to be edgy and different from other people
>I can tell your age because it used to be normal to hate this game until recently
Hmm

>>8550464
FLUDD is terrible, slows down the game, cuts Mario's moveset down in a game where there are stages without it, and the nozzles fuck up the stage design and platforming.

Cappy fits right in mechanics wise and feels like a natural extension of Mario. No slowly stopping to spray something down for a few seconds if you don't know how to do the quick spray exploit. He serves as a snappy ranged attack that doesn't slow you down, enhances your air mobility without slowing you down and rewards skillful play with trick jumps, and the capture mechanic added tons of variety to the gameplay. You would have to be an idiot to compare the two.

>>8549325
>>8549375
>>8549469
>>8549483
>>8549484
>>8549487
>>8549502
>literally no one can explain why it's a gimmick

>>8549650
>>8549663
>>8549665
>>8549681
Based

>8549632
Undoubtedly the most embarassing post in this thread

>>8550507
I think most of us were simply astonished that you weren't aware of nintendo using a new gimmick for each mario and zelda entry.

>>8550507
completely unnecessary gameplay addition that stayed for one entry and adds nothing interesting while slowing down gameplay, and all of the most praised parts of the game are when you don't have it

but it's not a gimmick guys i swear

Personally, Sunshine's a mediocre 3D title compared to 64 in terms of momentum, challenges, lack of improvements over 64 and some painfully wonky design choices:
>Blue Coins
>Clowns honking at you
>Die from running into a wall on a Blooper
>The Pachinco level (which I liked after knowing how to best it, but it's STILL badly designed and needed more ironing out)

A lot of the platforming (or lack of it) is a bit meager besides the FLUDDless zones, Mario at least felt solid to control at the cost of his 64 momentum and getting booted from a level after getting a Star is still annoying.
I'd also like to say that Galaxy had some unique level design and some gimmicks that added engaging and fun spin to it compared to both games (the blue anti-gravity stars, collecting star bits and waggle attack (which should've been a button press to begin and not slightly fuck with Mario's momentum)). However, it dumbed down Mario's movement options even further and STILL kicked you out of levels after getting a star. Also 1-Ups are and have been useless since 3D titles.

TL;DR: I'M A CHUCKSTER

>>8550507
FLUDD's a gimmick because he's required progress/complete certain levels and challenges. Outside those tasks he's pretty useless despite the small amount of the traversal/"combat" options he offers.

>>8550536
>>8550553
>>8550640
>this central and key gameplay addition is actually a gimmick because... it just is, okay?!

>>8550640
definitely not as good as 64, particularly given context at time of release. however, people on 4channel often speak only in hyperbole, often to the extent of, in this case, not even being able to admit that it's still a good game.

we have similar problems in the Link's Awakening thread, where one autist didn't like the visibility of the square tiles due to the new colours in DX. he was convinced that it this made it an absolutely abhorrent game, rather than simply slightly worse than the original.

>>8550652
just give it up, anon. you outed yourself as uninformed as soon as you admitted to not knowing about nintendo's gimmick-per-entry philosophy.

>>8550658
>nintendo's gimmick-per-entry philosophy
Which you've been completely unable to describe or define in any way

>>8550691
3D, sailing, wolf transformation, [didn't play], open world.
3D, FLUDD, spherical gravity, [didn't play], mind-control hat.

honestly, anon, how do you not know this?

>>8550696
>different games have different gameplay features
Really hit the nail on the head there, anon

>>8550703
that's right, anon, that's what we're talking about.

>>8550703
>>8550709
Just to remind you how this conversation started:
>it's a great game with a below-average gimmick. and we all agree that the gimmicks are necessary because otherwise nintendo's major IP would be the same games every time.

>>8550714
So all game series not made by Nintendo are just sequences of identical games?

>>8550735
just read the thread. nintendo IPs are gimmick-heavy.

>>8550658
Yeah even though I said SS is a mediocre 3D title with spotty design, I still think it's an alright game regardless. One thing I realized replaying it recently is there's not a whole lot of cleaning to do in a game about...cleaning, which was pretty disappointing imo. Hell--Splatoon does a better job in the opposite sense.

>>8550703
Yes and they still have gimmicks in comparison to each title in that franchise when they otherwise weren't required previously.
You're just backpedaling at this point for (you)s.

>>8550837
>and they still have gimmicks
Still ARE gimmicks, rather. Excuse me!

>>8550837
I still have to play SS actually, I'll add it to the list.

>>8548773
>Fuck this board really is going to shit
What did you expect?
The majority of posts agreeing with one another are just "BASED BASED BASED" and very few explaining their reasoning for liking/disliking the game should've tipped you off.

>>8550892
I was talking about Sunshine in that post, just to be clear. My feelings on Sunshine are the same with Skyward Sword in regards to Zelda too.

>>8550907
Oh yeah, I know. I didn't mean to completely ignore the rest of your post and just focus on SS like that. It's pretty much what I'm expecting from SS, so I haven't really gotten around to playing it.

>>8526091
I liked it. The fluddless challenge levels were my favorite though. Honestly would've preferred Mario 64 2. I think the platforming itself feels better than 64, and the fludd mechanics are mostly fine, but being saddled with them as "the" powerups in the game feels lame.

I dunno. Mediocre overall, but it ve played a bit of Odyssey recently and it feels kinda shitty too. Too canned. The path forward is a quick-time puzzle rather than an obstacle that you can tackle. Whole series feels that way.

Kinda wanna try Mario maker tho.

>>8549431
Iirc Mario 64 was developed with the character. Controller first and the only thing to was chase the rabbit around a stage. And when that felt good the decided they good build the rest of the game.
Which is great. But Mario sunshine does feel better when wall humping and such. I would prefer if they didn't remove any of the abilities from 64, but I don't ink the ones they kept feel more refined. To say nothing of fludd.

>>8550947
Lol at all the fucking typos I my post. I didn't proof read shit.

>>8550928
>>8550947
>>8550952
I think Sunshine would have been vastly improved if they'd removed the waterpack and made it more platforming-heavy. If they'd then ironed out some of the jank and it could have been 10/10.

anyone else feel like they'd absolutely play a game made entirely of sunshine's obstacle courses, with the long-jump included?

>>8550981
More or less agree.

>>8550987
they probably could have made yoshi play a bit less shittily, too.

>>8550981
>If Sunshine's development was finished and the devs weren't retarded it could have been a good game!
What else is new bro.

Sunshine is as aggravating as it is because so much potential was wasted by bad decisions and rushing it out the door.

>>8550996
nah, it's already a good game. it would have been a hard ten if they'd finished it.

>>8550640
>Clowns honking at you
rofl

>>8530651
Same. Galaxy has terrific visuals, music, sound effects, variety, no part of the game feels rushed... But in the end it's so linear and easy, I just find it boring.

>Sunshine fans on damage control: the thread and trying to gaslight you into thinking it was great
every single time

>>8551120
(You)

>>8550907
Based

>>8550498
>Doesn't slow down gameplay
>change into this shitty enemy to do one thing
>>8550480
I don't know how you played Sunshine, but FLUDD never slowed me down, it gives great moving options.
Odyssey itself has fantastic controls, but there's no challenge to it. I'd rather rage at a level like Poison River than go "ground pound this glowing spot" x 30 times.

>>8551168
Changing into enemies is snappy outside of the first and final ones and their functions tend to be pretty useful. Many of them serve to speed up gameplay, such as Bullet Bills, Cheep Cheeps underwater or the enemy that spits out water to jet around. Also I'd argue that even the slower transformations like the pecking bird were fun enough to be warranted, I would play a $20 title based around that fucker.

But more importantly Cappy can also be used purely for offense and mobility in many circumstances in fast and natural ways. Instead of the slow-functioning hover nozzle, you can throw him out to extend your jumps in short fashion. You can do a swift AoE attack around Mario that actually does something compared to trying to spray the FLUDD around you. Activating shit in the game is based around quickly throwing Cappy at an object which gives quick feedback and followthrough, as opposed to what almost every Sunshine player's experience is where they have to stop, manually aim the spray nozzle, and wait a million years for the game to wash something off since the fast burst way to clean shit is not at all intended.

Stop bringing up Galaxy, it’s shit and not retro

>>8551203
The criticism that I always heard about Sunshine, is that "the challenge room without FLUDD are the best part".
To me only the few challenges near the end of Odyssey that were designed like Sunshine challenge rooms were the fun part, where you actually had to have a couple of tries.

Like I said, mobility in Odyssey is great. Cappy is gay.

>>8551484
>Cappy is gay
It's not the best gimmick; I think Galaxy's wins that. It's better than FLUDD, though.

>>8550464
FLUDD's hover nozzle is terrible, completely halts and breaks all momentum and it's incredibly slow. I love Sunshine but if they ever revisit it again it needs to work like Diddy's jetpack from Donkey Kong Country Returns/Tropical Freeze

I liked it too

>>8551484
>The criticism that I always heard about Sunshine, is that "the challenge room without FLUDD are the best part".
Those are the worst part, what the fuck?

>>8526091
I liked it but man, this is the jankiest Mario game
Also the blue coins concept was terrible, if at least we had a proper checklist with hints that unlocks along the way

>>8555179
wat

what's wrong with you


WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?

>>8526109
Mario did not die. The version you thought you knew did

>>8526109
>>8557239
would it be accurate to say that his soul died?

Mario's soul died when spinoffs started outnumbering the platformers.

>>8557810
it's all coming together

>>8542656
>still no Galaxy 2 on Switch

>>8557823
I don't think Halos in Japanese media really imply anything about where you're going when you die. Otherwise I I have some questions about who the real villain of Zelda is.

>>8557823
>the underwhere
top tier localisation lads

>>8557831
Would you really prefer it if it were "the Underland"?

>>8557896
no, the underwear joke is great.