/vr/ - Retro Games

Yeah, it's a massive shame that in this timeline you weren't aborted and instead spend your life making shitty threads about Sonic games every single day

Sonic's Saturn Odyssey is the greatest loss of all. Imagine.

>>8548790
My bad, which other electronic toy for children would you rather be discussing this fine saturday?

imagine if those selfish CUNTS didnt make games for their own sake and instead just made sonic but saturn. sonic team could have SAVED ALL OF SEGA by exclusively making sonic games forever

>sonic travels to Darkroot Garden

Noice.

>>8548806
>Hey fellow SONIC Team members let's not make a Sonic game since I have this stupid idea for a flying gay clown game

>>8548780
what is this from? First ive seen this pic

>>8548780
Even with Sonic I don't think that the outcome of things would've turned out much differently, afterall Sega was still a mess, with how they handled the Saturn and their own internal problems between SoA and SoJ, the Saturn would've lost in sales to both the PS1 and N64, with Sonic perhaps boosting both hardware and software sales a bit to give them more revenue, but not enough to save it, then Microsoft would jump in the following generation, with the PS2 getting pretty much all sales, and Sega would've stopped making consoles eventually.

I feel that the only timeline in which Sega would've continued as a major player in the console market after the Dreamcast is if the Saturn was handled completely different, more similar to the Dreamcast, and if SoA and SoJ got it together, also SoA should've had more faith in the Japanese titles that were never localized, the Japanese Saturn has a much wider library which could've helped the Saturn on the west, and, of course, in this case Sonic would've definitely helped, he couldn't save the Saturn and Sega by himself, but he could've helped lots in this case.

>>8548876
Sonic Adventure concept renders

>>8548868
BRAVO NAKA SENSEI

>>8548949
absolute unadulterated SOUL
not gonna lie i almost prefer these to the final dreamcast model, theres so much charm to these renders.
>>8548939
even as someone that can say he loves sonic up to dreamcast and even heroes/shadow, theres zero denying sega was just retarded all day every day their entire existence in the console game. Back to back retarded easily avoidable mistakes, devs like naka that apparently had a reputation, pushing their devs during the saturn era to near death. They put their demise on themselves we can't blame anyone else.

Even if for whatever godforsaken reason, Xtreme made its way onto store shelves, it still wouldn’t have saved the Saturn. Granted, it certainly would’ve helped shift a few more units but the damage was already done. It would require a complete reset to give the Saturn a fighting chance with neither SOJ or SOA doing it any favours. Even so, Xtreme likely would not have been good even if it did come out, and let’s say it did I can guarantee it would be remembered today as ‘that weird nauseating saturn game that looked like total tripe in comparison to Mario 64 and Crash’. I love the saturn, but sonic or no sonic, it was dead on arrival

>>8548949
I think I would've liked this more if it didn't push Sonic into the weird fantasy-serious route it would sometimes go down.

>>8548805
Sid Meyer's Colonization.

>>8548960
Indeed, and I didn't even mention the Mega CD and especially the 32x. Sega was a mess and I'm surprised they didn't go under immediately after the end of the 5th generation, the way they mismanaged the Saturn wasn't a one time thing, it was more like the final nail in the coffin after so many poor decisions and management, it just makes the Dreamcast more impressive to me, perhaps under slightly different circumstances it would've been enough to keep Sega on the market, because they did everything right with it, but it was too late at that point, which is a shame.

>>8548997
the dreamcast is an absolute fucking miracle after what they did post first release genesis. They didnt need to keep genesis on life support, they could have easily waited the 4-5 years to release another console with strong capability, the timings of these releases + the "necessity" is baffling. I bought a model 2 sega cd for the novelty and i love it, but it doesn't need to exist.

>>8549002
I’d argue the Sega CD is fine as it is. It’s a cool piece of hardware with a lot of stellar games for it (mainly those coming directly from Sega and its affiliates or whatever Working Designs was bringing over). Granted it wasn’t a success but they could’ve simply let it be with that as the only add on and then gradually lessened support for the system before they transitioned over into the Saturn in like 1995. Now the 32x however, that was the straw that broke the camel’s dick. I’d argue that thing did more damage to Sega than their pissing up the wall that was the Saturn launch. It’s understandable that they wanted to keep focus on the Genesis given how it was still selling extremely well in 1995, but by offering an expensive poor man’s 32 bit system full of shit games that no one wanted, that was the absolute beginning of the end for them

>>8548971
Sonic always had this weird interpretation crisis from the start where everyone who looked at the games saw something different. That's how you end up with both Sonic SATAM and Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog airing at exactly the same time.

>>8549002
The Saturn probably could have been left to cook for an extra year while the 32X carried the burden in the interim and things would have ultimately been better off. The 32X had problems, yes, but it was actually pretty good at arcade ports of the day and could have been a good source of Capcom fighting games and beat-em-ups. But for some reason Sega seemed absolutely panicked by the prospect of not being first to market, which made no sense since even the PS1 took time to really hit it's stride. The footrace with Sony made no sense at all. The only thing I can think of is that they were in a rush to use Virtua Fighter as a next gen system seller and didn't want to leave it exclusive to the 32X for a while.

>>8548790
based

>>8548978
>Meyer

ZooooOooOoooom

Why is Sonic Adventure so radically different compared to the original games? It is easy to get the impression that it was made by different developers, but it's not exactly. What made them reboot it like they did?

>>8548790
fpbp

>>8550182
SA1 is pure soul, a proper imagining and fleshing out of basically non existent sonic lore into a 3d world. Sonic Team even went and saw real Mayan ruins for inspiration.

Explain to me the sonic love

Explain to me the Sonic hate

>>8552275
>>8552279
What is love?
amy dont hurt me
dont hurt me
no more

From a moderate, non-autist, 3D Sonic fan:
>>8552275
The momentum based gameplay, so SA1 > the rest. Couldn't care less about the characters themselves outside of their designs.

>>8552279
Over reliance on innovation and gimmicks that further stray away from Sonic's core gameplay.

>>8552279
>Explain to me the Sonic hate
The non stop threads, spam and generally autistic posts that come with this fanbase. Mario posters are the exact same.

Every day I kneel down and thank God I wasn't born a fucking Sonic fan.

>>8552275
he good

>>8548780
>>8548949
literally all of these were used in the adventure games somehow except the first one which just looks like the ending from 3&k. up middle looks like red mountain, up right looks like the backside of mystic ruins and lost world even uses part of this exact render, both down left (op) and middle look like green forest and down right looks like icecap or the entrance leading to it and looks to be half just a stock image of a canyon

but yeah sure its entirely different and something amazing we missed out on because sonic's eyes aren't green. as if the saturn could ever handle anything remotely like any of those pics in real time

>>8548790
almost too based

>>8548780
>>8548949
This looks better than the dreamcast sonic

>>8548790
The post that almost saved /vr/

>>8548780
>leaves on the ground have curvature
>sonic's quills don't
yeah this looks like shit. there's a fundamental schism between the detail on the environment and lack of detail on the characters. the actual adventure designs suit these environments much better

>>8548790
Unless this anon was making tons of bait postings about Sonic, I don't see the harm in talking about it all the livelong day. What is this board for anyways besides? Just jerking off on your CRTs?

>>8549278
Your looking at this through a historic lens. Yes, from the outside it may look silly to beat them ti market first, but it wasn't about hitting strides. Regardless of PS1 not hitting said stride it was still a product already out for buying, the potentiality of that translates into lost market share, which is what Sega was most paranoid about. It didn't help that they got mindbroken at that press conference that announced the price tag for PlayStation.

>>8548939
If Sega merged with Bandai during 5th gen they'd likely still be in the console business

>>8549278
32x did okay with Super Scaler and flat polygon arcade ports. 2d games were hardly better than Genesis and were worse than Sega CD which had the storage for detailed 2d

If Sega of America stopped being retarded

No early release, keep good relationships with us retailers.

Easier to develop hardware OR good documentation

Sonic at launch

No 32x , extend the genesis with more SVP games

There's nothing to stop Sony winning Japan with square and enix..
But solid sales in the us & Japan and Europe would have kept the Saturn around longer

The problem was square and enix are king makers in Japan....

>>8548939
This to be honest, the "fixed Sega" timeline requires FIXING SEGA, not releasing a Sonic experiment. They were a dysfunctional company with too many weird ego problems going on - even averting one, two, three disasters through some kind of manual time control fuckery, it'd still be on course for new ones.

>>8548780
Sonic cannot work in 3D.
Also there's no way that pic you posted could ever run on the Saturn. It's a bullshot.

>>8555615
>the actual adventure designs suit these environments much better
Actual cringe delusion from adventurebab

>>8556025
why do you think they changed the designs to begin with dipshit?

>>8549261
The shitty American cartoons had fuck all to do with the games.
The games were pretty consistent in the golden age.

>>8556030
Because Sega are absolute retards.
The new designs have always been unadulterated garbage.

>>8556039
they had nothing but good reasons, upping the curvature and detail of the characters makes perfect sense on more powerful hardware capable of rendering more realistic environments.

>>8556032
They both were pretty accurate considering the only material that existed at the time were Sonic 1 and 2. I don't even think Sonic CD was out yet.

>>8556021
It works better in 3D. You can actually see obstacles coming unlike in the 2D games. The major flaws of 3D Sonic are how buggy they are and how much filler is shoved in. The core gameplay is good.

>>8556021
>Gameplay of Sonic in Sonic Adventure 1&2
>Level design and artstyle like Sonic Heroes
Sonic can easily work great in 3D if Sonic Team wasn't braindead at seeing what does and doesn't work

>>8548949
>Bottom left picture
This art design alone would've gotten me to care about a sonic game.

>>8548949
>Bottom right picture
This art design alone would've gotten me to care about a sonic game.

>>8556126
You forgot how bad the physics are, where Sonic accelerates near instantly and decelerates slowly and jumps really floatily with no sense of depth or perspective, which in turn mandates a homing attack that contemporaries never needed. All of it lead movement to feeling sloppy in all 3D sonic games. It needed way more thought put into the physics, let's be honest.

>>8557564
>Sonic accelerates near instantly and decelerates slowly
this is how the classics work too
>which in turn mandates a homing attack that contemporaries never needed
homing attack was mandated because there was a whole entire new axis to deal with

>>8556021
>Sonic cannot work in 3D.
Yet he did. Wow.

>>8550365
Deepest lore