/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8524525
>>acclaimed for years as the pinnacle of the series

It's funny because I thought it was shit when it came out but when I gave it another honest chance recently I fell in love with it.

Egoraptor has always been an abrasive retard with no taste.

>>8524525
>>acclaimed for years as the pinnacle of the series

i do remember when public opinion was a lot nicer to SA2 but i don't think it has ever been a common opinion that it was the pinnacle of sonic

I clearly remember when Adventure 1 was going to come out for the GC, and there was a collective attidude, of "finally, the good Adventure game is getting re-released".
Once the new sheen of these games and the Dreamcast had worn off, people had a very lukewarm opinion of them. That's just the truth. I'm sorry if that breaks your mind.

>>8524525
>unfunny Reddit jokes over it
I hate the Snapcube videos for that very reason

>acclaimed for years as the pinnacle of the series
do zoomers really?

>>8524525
>>acclaimed for years as the pinnacle of the series
nigga are you high?

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the peak of 2D video games and Sonic Adventure 2 is the peak of 3D video games.

>>8524525
I was obsessed with Sonic when I was a kid, loved the Genesis games, AoStH was one of my favorite shows (got lucky and somehow avoided the Archie comics and weird shit entirely) and used to stare at the Dreamcast boxart for SA1 and SA2 a lot because it looked cool.
When I got SA1, I was 9. The voice acting made me cringe a bit, so I would switch it to Japanese, but eventually the English version grew on me. It had some retarded shit like Big the Cat, but the game was otherwise great.

Dreamcast SA2 was hard to find. None of the stores around me ever had it. It kept its full price for a few years after the DC was discontinued so I didn't get it until I was like 12. The graphics are great, the music is great, some of the levels are great, but it's also the beginning of modern Sonic. It's cut perfectly down the middle between something based and something cringe. Something Light and Dark.

>>8524861
It's not even. Generations is a better game.

>>8524525
>By 2030 the amount of people remaining who love SA2 can be counted on one hand
SA2chads must persevere as the collective world turns its back on us. We are the last of a great race. Do not lose your faith. That is what our enemy desires most.

>>8524861
Based

>>8524525
I love SA2 so fucking much. For me it will always be the de facto logical conclusion to Sonic

General opinion these days seems to be regarding Sonic Adventure 2 a lot more favorably. Maybe it's just because its the first Sonic game for zoomers and they're a lot more prevalent on the internet now that they're gown up.
Maybe people realized it's actually a good game and the parts of the game that aren't Sonic/Shadow are actually fun.

>>8524928
It's the first one.

>>8524525
the attempted revisionism in this thread is hilarious.

sonic adventure 2 was absolutely beloved with adventure 1 seen as fairly behind it after both were out in the wild to compare, for years and years and years. all anyone wanted out of 06 was for it to be adventure 3, and after that failed people STILL clamored for adventure 3 long afterwards because adventure 2 (and 1 to a lesser extent) was simply that admired.

now that it's the modern day you'll just get claims of "b-but dreamcast adventure 1, 2 is SHIT" if someone is willing to praise either game at all. shit's lunacy

>>8524894
HOLY FUCKING YES

WE WILL SURVIVE
HANGING ON THE EDGE OF TOMORROW!

>>8524939
This guy remembers the original timeline of reality. I appreciate it.

>>8524939
No, the actual attitude is that the Sonic stages were fun. and people wanted a game that was just that, which is where things eventually gravitated. If everyone always loved all of the fishing, the treasure hunting stages, and the mech stages, why were those the first things to go? That doesn't make any sense.

>>8524948
Person who was actually there here: the Big complaints were always there, and the Sonic stages were always the favorite. Everything else got progressively more blown out of proportion each year that passed. Nitpicking became a pastime.

>>8524967
>Nitpicking became a pastime.
Gamers are among the most petty and insufferable faggots on Earth

>>8524997
Us gamers actually have standards. No one messes with us and comes out unscated.

>>8524997
What's so bad about trying to work out why a particular thing doesn't work as well as it should?
>just consume product and be happy

>>8525006
No, no, he's got a point. There's articulating what you're thinking and feeling, and there's not allowing yourself or others to enjoy anything as you see fit.

>>8525015
You can enjoy whatever you want to enjoy, and I can pick apart and tear down the things you enjoy as much as I want (Hell, I do that to things I enjoy). That's how the internet works. If you're so weak emotionally, you need to be surrounded by constant support for everything you like, otherwise you feel like you aren't "allowed" to like it, I don't know what to tell you. Leave the internet before it destroys your brain, or grow a dick. I don't know.

>>8524525
>obsessed with e-celebs and trannies
>mobile filename
Leave.

>>8525028
I'm not >>8524997, but all I was doing was separating what makes things insufferable or not. I indeed tear shit down constantly, but it's no less obnoxious, I don't really care what you say. You were doing well until you fell into the "I have to be macho and dismissive" trap at the end though. Can't have a normal conversation, can we.

>>8524525
>suddenly, public consensus shifts into ‘its a terrible game and always has been’ all because of Game Grumps and other YouTubers
Stop caring about the opinions of literal who's on the internet

>>8525080
It's straight up a very feminine way to approach the world.
>oh no, I must temper my opinions to the opinions of people around me
Why?

>>8525125
I'm agreeing with you? Who are you even quoting at this point? Who are we supposed to be beating up? Show me.

>>8525132
People who come at me with that nonsense about me "not letting them like things". It's a weak mindset, and I don't respect it. It's also a lowkey way to police behaviour, without actually asserting any authority.

>>8525004
I love video games but there is a certain hivemindedness of snarky know-it-alls who more or less think and act exactly the same, regurgitate the exact same opinions derived from higher-ranking snarky know-it-alls they all listen to. They take video games way too seriously to the point that they take all the fun out of it, then they still buy everything anyway and enable devs to keep getting away with doing whatever it was that pissed them all off in the first place.
>>8525006
>>8525028
Here's one. The snarky, petty, insufferable know-it-all fag vibes are through the roof

>>8525139
>ctrl+f "let"
>it's just you
I mean ...

>>8525149
How is saying "it can be obnoxious" snarky, petty, insufferable, or know-it-all? God damn.

>>8525149
As if you aren't being a "snarky know it all", by trying to tell me my opinions aren't valid somehow, insisting I got them from an E-celeb I don't follow, and trying to educate me on exactly how I'm participating in gamer culture the wrong way.

>>8525149
Based and correct post.

Captcha: 4Y SSX

>>8525159
I said "gamers are among the most insufferable faggots on Earth" because it's true. A lot of them are really annoying and samey. From there it seems you felt personally attacked and started countering a series of arguments no one made with le epic rebuttals and basically proving my point about how annoying and petty gamers are.
What is it? Did I strike a nerve with you, or does everyone else, as you put it, have to grow balls and stop being a woman?

>>8525179
Stay based.

>>8524939
very much this. people that say 1 is better than 2 are delusional or shitposting contrarians. 2 is an improvement in all aspects. HOWEVER, they are both less than perfect games, with their own bugs and jank. people that praise them as actual quality are retarded. people that shit on them as irredeemably bad arent really being fair.

for BOTH games, people wanted more sonic/speed stages. the mech stages were hated. treasure hunting was meh, but the design was improved in the second one by giving them their own stages (fuck off about the radar. being different isnt better or worse. kill yourself. hot/cold isnt hard and traversing the map is easy on every non-pyramid stage). in giving them a FAIR analysis (something you wont see much of anywhere) the mech stages arent inherently bad, but they just arent SONIC and certainly nothing compared to the speed stages. we've always wanted something of adventure caliber, but only speed stages. sadly, we never really got it because theres always some dumb fucking gimmick attached to it. guns, werehog, wisps, 2-d sections, etc etc.

the world is still waiting on a 3d SONIC game. not sonic and friends. not sonic and some dumb gimmick. just 3d sonic (friends can come ONLY if they play exactly like sonic or have a mobility gimmick to take advantage of the 3d space, like knuckles glide/climb or tails flight)

>>8525227
Ever played sonic heroes anon? Just the speed sections of adventure and friends have abilities.. Sounds like your dream come true

It's insane how fans of these games can't ever fathom the idea that people have different opinions and tastes. I have always disliked SA2, and not because anybody told me to. SA1 is not perfect, but I found it fun and very charming. I have given SA2 several chances and each and every time, I get extremely bored with it. Neither game is perfect so idk why you people think that either game deserves nothing but praise from everyone.

>>8524525
When they were re released for gamecube in 2003 they got middling reviews

When the games came out they were acclaimed because they wer Sega's flagship. The game magazines aren't gonna shit on the flagship games of the console maker

The reality though is that both Shenmue and SA were mediocre

>>8525390
Same shit happens with Nintendo. Crap like Luigis mansion wouldn't have got half the review scores it did if it wasn't nintendo.

>>8525227
>the world is still waiting on a 3d SONIC game. not sonic and friends. not sonic and some dumb gimmick. just 3d sonic (friends can come ONLY if they play exactly like sonic or have a mobility gimmick to take advantage of the 3d space, like knuckles glide/climb or tails flight)

Sonic 06 was 15 years ago. It's time to move on from the "shitty friends" argument. You can argue that Unleashed, Colors, Generations, and Lost World all had "dumb gimmicks" if you want, but Sega has absolutely listened to the people screaming about Sonic's friends diluting the gameplay.

Always loved SA2, catch me in that fucking chao garden.

>DUDE SONIC BAD BECAUSE IT HAS SOME GLITCHES
People who shit on sonic never played actually terrible platformers. Go play shit like Blinx, Cocoto, Bubsy, Frogger & Pac-Man platformers, sphinx, etc

>>8525810
I’ll be honest man those glitches that are in the game are the reason I decided to pursue computers. It’s neat to see how things work like that, and most of it is jank from 3D being so new at the time, relatively.

Stop talking to people who only play 2D Sonic and sheeps who watch brainlet youtubers.

>>8525795
How do I play the PC port and leave chao garden running while I'm doing other things on the PC, I don't want to have my PC tied up while I wait for my chao to become an adult.

I loved SA 2 battle but i remember very well the reviews. When SA2 came out on dreamcast it had tons of positive opinion but by the time it released on GameCube it got shit on by many review outlets, most notably IGN. I and many were pissed at Matt Mdhehejsj since it was the first sonic game on Nintendo and we wanted it to get Great reviews but it didn't. I still loved the game and defended it but it was when the 3D sonic games are bad meme started.

Ironically all reviewers said "only the sonic levels were good/I wish it was all sonic levels" which is what Heroes and Shadow essentially were but that didn't save those games from getting shat on. SA2 did get popular again s few years ago because the kids who grew up with it were now making videos about how great it was but the opinion was negative sinceSA2 Battle camée out

>>8524525
I never really fully liked that game. I grew up with adventure dx on my pc. then years later got internet and finally tried adventure 2 through Dolphin

sonic and shadow levels, the so-called "good" are literal scripted gameplay. adventure was comfy fun, sa2 levels are edgy action-fulled shit. they all feel like you're in a hurry
music is shitty. it panders to the shitty metalshit teens

the only better things are the chao garden, and the trasure hunting levels, since they are larger

>>8525863
>they all feel like you're in a hurry
unbased retard

>>8525825
I just play in windowed mode, that allows it to stay running while you do other stuff. There is also a chao editor that allows you to force evolve.

This is the link to the download page. I believe magnitude stat is linked to the evolution, but the guide on the site goes in depth.
https://gamebanana.com/tools/6874

>>8525898
>city escape: escape from the police
>metal harbor: hurry up and hang on the missle
>green forest: THE FOREST GONNA BLOW UP IN 8 MINUTES WHOA
>pyramid cave: something something get on the ship before it launches (something like that, i'm just trying to remember)
>final rush: something something similar to above

shadow's are the same too, escaping from the gun soldiers, saving rouge, etc

>>8525946
>Sonic game is about going fast
Darn... woah...

>>8525915
>There is also a chao editor that allows you to force evolve.
Absolutely fucking soulless. I'm not above mods but holy shit.

>>8525227
>mech stages were hated
Gamma is liked well enough, it's just the Tails/Eggman mechs that control like dogshit (but they have the better levels and scoring system).

>>8526036
The Tails/Eggman stages not only control like dogshit, but the segments themselves feel very braindead to play.

>>8525227
>the world is still waiting on a 3d SONIC game. not sonic and friends.
so adventure 1 and 2? the only sonic game where its just him with no friends is the very first one no one actually likes

>>8524525
>acclaimed for years as the pinnacle of the series

Now that's just a god damn lie!

>>8524525
Just play a good game instead

>>8525668
they got exactly what they wanted in the boost era (especially generations) and just ignore it cause they can't admit that what they wanted is shit and that they never actually liked or really cared about the legacy of sonic. the true scotsmen of the sonic community

>>8525946
>>8525951
>give Sonic a motivation to go fast besides blast processing faster than Pooper Slowtendo

>>8525946
>plot urgency
holy heckerino!

>>8526191
The fabled SA3
https://twitter.com/Tracker_TD/status/1482164377126060037

>>8525837
critically it was revered at first but online it was pretty love-it-or-hate-it from the start especially with what they did to tails' gameplay. i remember myself thinking sa1 was overall better when i played first it but the vastly improved chao garden eventually changed my mind. the lack of hub worlds were what bothered me weirdly enough. i missed doing skatepark shit in mystic ruins

>>8525227
>the world is still waiting on a 3d SONIC game
The SammyClassicSonicFan argument.
Based because he was right. Where's the 3D Sonic game that takes place in the stylized world you see in the Genesis games?
Not the frickin "realistic" world of Sonic Adventure and 3D derivatives, not frickin Archie comics, not frickin Sonic X, not frickin SatAM, not frickin Mean Bean Machine/Adventures of Sonic. Sonic the FRICKIN Hedgehog for SEGA Genesis!

>>8524997
This.
That's why no one takes this medium seriously.
Can't say the same with lit or film fags.

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

CAN YOU FEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLL TIME?
SLIPPIN' DOWN YOUR SPINE?

OHHH
YOU TRY AND TRY TO IGNORE
WHOA-OA-OH!

/sthg/ thread

>>8525963
I agree. But it’s there for people who don’t have the time for it.
Nothing beats seeing/hearing the evolution. I remember being a kid and we’d leave the GameCube on and go outside and play or swim, come back in hours later after playing and it would have evolved/reincarnated. We’d look around the garden frantically to find it, sometimes multiple evolutions and reincarnations would happen. So you’d be curious as to what was what.

>>8526224
sonic generations. also literally any abandanware 3d sonic fangame. its kind of funny how like the majority of 3d sonic content exists to pander exclusively to this kind of fan only for them to just not count any of it and continue whining

>>8525319
its really not. terrible controls, buggy in a bad way, completely lacking in story, every team is the same stages and shit. being a team, the powerups for dealing damage, the level design forcing you stop and use the team gimmicks, not what im talking about or looking for. its another swing and a miss in a long line of strike outs.

>>8525668
>>8526192
man, you guys have terrible reading comprehension. it doesnt matter how long ago the last "sonic and friends" game was. every game that was, still had some other gimmick gunking it up. generations wasnt entirely bad, but it still wasnt wasnt just "3d sonic". half of it was 2d sonic, and some parts of the 3d levels have 2d segments. thats not "the game" im saying they need to make.

>>8526036
because he's just sonic controls, with a gun. he's not "mech". go play shadow's game.

>>8526186
>not sonic and friends
>suggests 2 games that are sonic and friends.
willful ignorance at its finest.

the only good things about it were the high res textures in the opening level, the music on knuckles levels, and green hill zone remake.

>>8526292
>3d sonic speed stages only
>brings up the game that is 1/2 2d, and some portions of 3d stages are 2d.
man you're fucking retarded.
>abandanware 3d sonic fangame
literally who? shitty fan games dont count. nobody knows about them. we want official releases, the right way. sonic deserves it.

>>8525837
>which is what Heroes and Shadow essentially were
they brought their own stupid gimmicks to muddle the experience. dumb team shit, each team is the same stages, dumb powerups. guns, awkward quest objectives.

The Sonic Adventure games were Sega's attempt to appease the new Style Over Substance movement of gaming at the time that was dominating Nintendo and Sony's platform with shit like Mario 64 and MGS, with the intention of primarily continuing the arcade-style simple, fun games on the Dreamcast Sega is known for. So of course the Sonic Adventure games sucked. They were the Mario 64 of the Dreamcast.

>>8526472
the game you want them to make is arbitrary and based on an imaginary idealized perception of the classics. again, the only classic game where sonic has no friends is the very flawed first one. it isn't at all the ideal and the adventure games weren't at all going off on a wing having his friends be playable

>>8526489
its almost like if you look at the 'not sonic and friends' games all you get is labyrinth zone and boostshit. sonic 2, cd and 3 all had sonic's friends in them and they are absolutely more qualified entries than 1.

>>8526505
>grrrrrr you were supposed to abide by my completely unexplained aribtrary definition of what 3d is
maybe you just don't actually want what you think you want

>>8524525
SA2 was divisive amongst fans eons before Egoraptor. Hell, the "rough transition to 3D" meme originates from a review of SA2B on GameCube.
Quit roleplaying as someone who was there.

>>8526191
>homing attack goes in the direction of the camera instea dof the direction Sonic is facing

into the fucking trash it goes

>>8526735
It was the most cherished game on the sonic forums I went to in the early 2000s. The people who complained about the adventure series were uniformly mocked as contrarian hipsters.

>>8526754
it was mixed but the problems fans usually had with it when it was new were specific fanboy complaints like they couldn't take tails out of the mech or whatever. what's actually relatively new is this idea that sa2 is badly designed and broken and full of stuff "nobody asked for" like sonic's cringesauce friends yadda yadda yadda.

>>8526772
The one I remembered the most was the famous "green eyes" scandal.

The people calling us zoomies probably don't even remember that drama

>>8526794
yeah but i think that was mostly a reaction to the overly stylized concept art sa1 had and died down once the actual in-game models were revealed. though it had a resurgence when sonic 4 was first revealed, which is probably what got us generations

>>8525837
>Heroes and Shadow were
Heroes and Shadow control like shit.

>>8526472
"Sonic has stupid friends" and "Sonic has stupid gimmicks" are entirely separate statements that shouldn't be lumped together. It makes it look like Sega's been trying the same thing for years. Rather, they've been listening to the fans, and learning the wrong lessons, when trying to avoid the failures of Shadow, 06, and arguably Heroes.

Look at Sonic Lost World. Fully 3D, embraces the classic aesthetic, no extra playable characters beyond Sonic, not nearly as sprawlingly overambitious as earlier games. Is it a good Sonic game? No. But that has nothing to do with "shitty friends", and everything to do with shitty gimmicks (like you said), and design philosophy.

>>8526613
To his credit, Tails controlled exactly like Sonic in Sonic 2; and they didn't design whole other stories, levels, and physics in S3&K to complement Tails and Knuckles, just some bonus paths. Friends aren't bad in isolation, what's bad is when designing friends' levels and mechanics takes time and resources away from designing Sonic levels.

This is where the argument comes in that characters should play "like Sonic, but X". There's no Dark Side Story or Knuckles path in Sonic Mania, just some extra options for exploring the levels and a different act or two. (Granted, that's also pretty close to Sonic Heroes' approach. I dislike Sonic Heroes for different reasons myself, but I understand what people see in it.)

>>8526794
>>8526754
This guy was actually there. Real recognize real.

>>8526881
>To his credit, Tails controlled exactly like Sonic in Sonic 2
true but i highly doubt that's being acknowledged by the people crying about muh stupid friends. he's still one of sonic's stupid friends in the game anyway
>what's bad is when designing friends' levels and mechanics takes time and resources away from designing Sonic levels.
>no Knuckles path in Sonic Mania
knux paths didn't take away from sonic's levels in 3&k, they literally only added to them. this is simply a matter of effort. the main reason sa1 had so many characters is because the devs realized a whole ass game like sa1 with just sonic would be rote and boring. and i think sega one day just decided it was no longer worth it when every other fan is gonna screech "MUH STUPID FRIENDS CRINGETY CRINGE CRINGE" so since then they've endlessly chased their dollar with tepid dogshit like lost world, since that's the sonic-only, mario-like platformer all these spergs pretended they wanted out of adventure

Remember, Arin has also (sometimes loudly) voiced distaste for:
>3D Zelda games (especially Ocarina)
>Mega Man games before MMX (recall: Jumpnshootman)
>Devil May Cry
>Okami
>Skyrim
>Modern Mario games, especially 3D World
>GBA Pokémon games
>Turtles in Time

None of those are widely disliked or criticized, even if they were given the same or worse treatment than the Sonic Adbentures. Game Grumps doesn't work as a boogieman for any series besides Sonic.

>>8525114
Based.

People literally just remember it for the Sonic/Shadow levels, Chao Garden, and MAYBE the Knuckles stages because of the music.

>>8526914
I mean, none of that really offends me other than Turtles in Time, that is indeed bullshit. The rest I can easily see not liking, whether or not I disagree on an individual basis.

>>8526914
he has absolutely influenced internet perception of 3d zelda and megaman so its really funny those are the first on the list

>>8526750
Play with mods then you faggot. Or get used to it and realize it's not even a homing attack in the first place.

>>8524928
>you will never pull that Rouge's pants down
>you will never nuzzle that soft white bush
>you will never kiss those luscious thighs and bury your face between them

>>8526931(Me)
In fact, why the fuck would you want to dash yourself through the air off camera anyway? Wouldn't that be even worse? How are you having trouble with the camera? Are you playing with a controller instead of a keyboard?

>>8524525
4chan is just like this. The same shifts happen between Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask, Banjo-Kazooie/Banjo-Tooie, and Paper Mario 64/TTYD. When thinking of one as the better game becomes accepted, the urge to be contrarian takes over and shifts the consensus in the other direction. Rinse and repeat.

>>8524525
>acclaimed for years as the pinnacle of the series
lolwat

>one of the most polished 3D platformers available at the time
it's not even polished by fifth gen standards.

>>8526934
SA2 VR, retard.

>>8526950
>God I wish someone would give me a (You), I'll suck your dick
Here, Jesus, now fuck off.

>>8526958
I'm not actually Jesus, but thanks all the same.

>>8526961
Fine, I kekked. Well done.

I know lots of people say SA1 has better Sonic levels than SA2 but I just hate the way characters control in that game, everyone feels like they got ice blocks on their shoes. In SA2 I can make Sonic actually run in a straight run.

>>8527114
*straight line, obviously. Also to elaborate further I think all of Sonic's SA2 levels are pretty enjoyable, Shadow has fun ones but they're not as good plus he's stuck with the Biolizard fight which sucks balls.

>>8526914
megaman, okami, and turtles are bad guys to be fair

>>8526914
I definitely remember Zelda fans parroting Aron's opinion on OOT word for word for almost a decade.

>>8527197
Arin's*

>>8526036
>>8526170
I've never understood the hate for tails/eggman levels

>>8527216
i'm pretty sure no one would even have complained about them if they were just for eggman like the original idea but the game forcing you to use tails in one just calls attention to everything potentially awkward about the gameplay

>>8527226
I suppose that's a valid criticism, yeah, it makes sense for Egfuman, but Tails doesn't really have an excuse does he. Entirely fair enough.

>>8527216
I don't like them because they are sluggish and braindead easy. Makes for a very boring experience. At least with Gamma from SA1, he had swift movement and was fun to control even though his gamemode was also super easy.

>>8527150
No they aren't

>>8526914
>Mega Man games before MMX
when was this

>>8525227
Sonic stages are boring and only an autismo would want more of them

>>8524525
>suddenly
Kys you stupid Nintenigger.

A lot of it is contrarianism and 'sonic was never good'ism. But the adventure series was beloved for being unique and because we played them as kids. I'm not going to lie and say that they hold up as well as crash, spyro, jak etc as 3d platformers of that era. they're not bad games by any stretch, they're just flawed, and they came out at a point in time where those flaws were less noticeable. Particularly things like the camera and linearity where the consistent improvement of those aspects of 3d games make SA and SA2 look way worse in hindsight.

>>8524525
>being one of the most polished 3D platformers available at the time

What the FUCK is this post? Spyro, Crash, Rayman 2 and months later Ratchet all shit on this trash game.

>>8527638
Good games are timeless

>>8527637
I can photoshop dates too.

>>8527638
Agree, except I come back to it more than any other 3D platformer, so not sure how much "they did it technically right, and they did it technically wrong" matters in the face of fun factor and replayability.

>>8527652
>I can photoshop dates too.
Holy shit just fucking cope already stupid underaged b&. Sonic was never revolutionary like this thread thinks he was.

>>8527646
This guy's up his own ass with every opinion he has, I'm sure.

>>8527648
100% truth

>>8527656
Except it was. Keep coping with MS Paint paste collages.

>>8525004
>Us gamers actually have standards.
If you did you'd have a job and family bitchass.

>>8527648
that's only true to an extent. Games like all technology get superseded by improved versions. Pong was an excellent game for its time but wouldn't be in anyone's top 10 tennis games today.

>>8527662
>Except it was.
Meds
>>8527662
Now

>>8527664
Good games are timeless

>>8527664
It literally hasn't aged. Pure gameplay over graphics that's still equally playable today.

>>8527669
He's right you know.

>>8527673
>He's
(You) aren't right, stop samefagging. You're the only retard here posting to 2 posts with spaces between them, making yourself that obvious.

>>8527680
>the schizos are in full force today
Meds

Now

>>8525227
>the world is still waiting on a 3d SONIC game.
Frontiers was just revealed like 3 weeks ago retard.

>>8527693
Frontiers isn't 3D retard

>>8525810
>Pac-Man platformers
Bitch you wish Sonic was more like World, Pacman had a far more faithful to classic Sonic SPINDASH than any 3D Shitnic game it hurts.

>>8526750
I'm pretty sure there's an option to change how the homing attack is aimed in SRB2. The default controls are meant for mouse and keyboard but there's a setting for gamepads where he aims wherever he's facing instead of where the camera's going.

>>8525837
>which is what Heroes and Shadow essentially were but that didn't save those games from getting shat on.
Because they fucked up the gameplay you stupid hick. And Shadow being cringeshit edgy didn't help at all for global appeal like Sonic was.

>>8525863
>>8525946
The issue us Sonic is literally hivemind into thinking he's blue Flash. He's fast so he must be in a rush. That's what killed him as a character because instead of using speed as just how he lives, they use it as his reason to exist. It's like if you were faster on your feet than the average person, they now wanted you to be in the oylpic team. Despite having no passion for being in a sport competition.

Sonic was about being free, and that he was so fast he had no reason to feel like he'd be late for anything. He usually liked to chill around and enjoy the sites, but now he GOTTA GO FEST.

>>8525810
This 100%
Everyone else on some bitch shit

Captcha: RJTWO

Don't known what it means yet, but I'll figure it out

>>8527735
>Sonic was about being free, and that he was so fast he had no reason to feel like he'd be late for anyth
Absolutely beautiful anon. You captured the original philosophy.

>>8524525
Nobody cares about this shit zoomer

>>8526750
It's not a homing attack, you stupid zoomer. It's called the "thok" and it's actually the air dash the Adventure games had when not near an enemy. I hate that zoomers don't even know there's a different.

And btw, you can homing attack in RB2, it's a shield power up like in 3D Blast.

>>8526754
No, you were part of a "discord" circlejerk before discord was eventually coined.

>>8526794
>The people calling us zoomies probably don't even remember that drama
Doesn't matter sicne your era now is "why is Sonic's arms blue" or even zoomier "why is Forces quills so short?"

You bitchfucks are all the same schizonia.

>>8526942
>In fact, why the fuck would you want to dash yourself through the air off camera anyway? Wouldn't that be even worse?
Is it, anon, that's why I hate all Adventure era games, they all had this retarded functionality about them

>Don't have modern day reticle to know what badnik you're going to target onto
>Die when you target the wrong enemies midair
>most targets don't even take into accont spacal awareness and will instead target the nearest object to Sonic even if it's offscreen, instead of forcusing in a cone shape in front of Sonic's model and camera direction

But no, lets keep using trash mechanics instead of fixing them because of muhstalgia.

>>8527696
>Frontiers isn't 3D retard
Hi time traveler. How was the Sonic 2 movie?

>>8527842
Filtered

>>8527842
It's not a fucking homing attack. How about you jump on enemies with some precision since it's entirely possible in srb2? Alternatively, install the Adventure Sonic mod.

>>8527720
heroes was alright, they just shouldn't have made you have to play the game 4 times and should have put that time into making alternate routes through the levels for different team formations.

>>8524525
>>acclaimed for years as the pinnacle of the series
Huh? I remember lots of people hated it when it was new. Same with Adventure 1.

>>8527842
The camera should be facing the direction your character is facing anyway if you play it as intended: with keyboard and mouse as though it were a Doom wad.

>>8524525
Hot take here but sa2 has a shit tier plot compared to sa1. SA1 is pure kino with each character having a little theme song. Great music all around, fun adventure stages.
SA2 is just a stage after stage after stage non stop action fest cut by ridiculous cut scenes.

>8528201
>with each character having a little theme song
Confirmed for never having played SA2
Bad bait

>>8527849
Only marginally better than the first, otherwise about equivalent in all respects because they didn't want to fuck up the unexpectedly mostly okay reception of the first, as is the status quo of risk aversion.

Captcha: Anthrax

>>8527638
>'sonic was never good'
Were that the merciful truth! Alas, the failure of the Sonic IP is not such a simple affair; its meteoric fall from grace is part and parcel of the punchline the brand became, necessitating a setup where the games were once acclaimed. It didn't become the most infamous and derided franchise in gaming by merely being a bad series from start to finish. It takes success to establish a three-ring circus, after all.

>>8527814
>uses tikthok
>calls anyone a zoomer
lol

>>8527735
big agree but i think sa2 handled this fine. i think the time limits in certain levels were just to give some context and tension for the player. i don't think its implying that sonic itself is just always in a rush no matter what he's doing. dude's being skullfucked in all directions by the super fbi on top of robotnik

>>8527875
I was talking about the official modern games retard, the thok and the shield that gives Sonic the homing attack are two separate things. Which actually adds a marker to boot.

>>8526623
wow, its like you're intentionally missing the point, even though i explicitly wrote it out.

>>8527747
>he actually said this in a thread with 100+ posts
Retarded oomerposter.

>>8526613
>>8526881
you fucking retards need to understand im not referencing the old sonic 3 when i say "sonic and friends". sonic 3 was GOOD, and playing as tails/knuckles was exactly the same, but you get some mobility gimmick to further explore the stage find new shit. thats fine.

when i say "not sonic and friends" i mean "not the shit that adventure 1 does. not the shit that adventure 2 does. not the shitty way heroes does. not garbage sonic boom." every time "friends" are involved in the 3d entries, its a wildly different game experience entirely when using them.

every time there his friends dont show up, theres some shitty gimmick like werehog, guns/weapons, wisps, 2d sections, etc.

i wouldnt care if they had tails running levels like sonic does, homing attack like sonic does, but gets a hover jump. i wouldnt care if knuckles could glide and climb (hell he could control exactly like he does in adventure 2). the problem is that whenever his friends show up, they have to have their own entire fucking playstyle and stage design, instead of just more glorious speed stages.

>>8526914
>>8526927
>>8526929
i kind of hate that i had the same opinions about OoT long before he made that video. everyone around me absolutely lost their shit about ocarina and majora's mask when they came out, but i played it and im like "well... i GUESS this is zelda, but this shit is ROUGH." z-targeting is a nightmare. combat is retarded because enemies just dodge and you have to wait until they're open. i constantly found myself MASHING buttons to skip stupid chest/collectable cutscenes. its a rough fucking game, and im so tired of how overrated it is. landmark in video game history? sure. but its not exactly good. the ford model T is a landmark in transportation, but its not exactly a good car.

also as an owner of both turtles in time and hyperstone heist, HH controls way better than TiT. people like to cry about "padding" and "boss rush", but honestly, i like that stage. the ONLY thing TiT really has going for it is the gimmick boss of throwing enemies at the screen. that was pretty cool. however, the mechanic isnt really necessary to begin with because slam is a thing (and can hurt other enemies on the field). not having a run button is a sin.

>>8528541
wow its like you don't actually like anything about sonic and are butthurt at me for not playing into your no true scotsman larp about muh perfect sonic-only dating sim that exists exclusively in your imagination

>>8528593
>enemies just dodge and you have to wait until they're open
deku nuts are like the first item you get and they paralyze enemies completely

i believe you aren't parroting egoraptor but you seem to have his same refusal to play it in any way that's intuitive. like you're going out of your way as a player to have a bad time.

>>8528619
ah yes, i must either monopolize an item slot for deku nuts at all times, or i need to constantly change items back and forth if combat happens. 10/10 design, you're right, what could i have been thinking? gtfo. i honestly cant think of another action game with enemies designed like OoT. its just not fun that way.

>>8528616
or maybe sonic games could simply be better than they currently are if they cut the fat and did something right?
you can either make an actual point with your next post and i'll reply to that, or you can keep yelling at clouds and avoiding the actual discussion and i'll ignore you. your choice. either engage in the conversation, or choose to be a clown worthy of nothing.

>>8528630
what ideal sonic game are you even referring to where he has no friends? what is even ideal about it?
>did something right
you mean like 2 and 3&k which added le stupid friends as well as improving the sonic formula in spades over the first where he has no friends? really seems like you're just milking that tired 06 criticism. it just doesn't actually apply to sonic. the problems of the games have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not sonic's the only playable character. that exact thing is what we've been getting for 15 fucking years and the result couldn't be more underwhelming.

>>8528570
I think you're right, and even Sega doesn't quite get this. To them "just Sonic" gameplay means just cramming more gimmicks into Sonic gameplay.
What I want is Robo Blast 2 with a budget. Let me play the entire game with Sonic, if I want, and make Sonic the real Sonic. Not Sonic but he's a Werewolf, or has a sword, or turns into a rocket or a drill like Kirby. Just Sonic, the way he played in the classic games (more or less). And then on top of that, you can include as many characters as you want. Tails, Knuckles, fucking Big the Cat if you really want to, I don't care. The important thing is that none of that intrudes upon my gameplay experience, if I decide I don't want it.

>>8528570
so you dislike the gimmicks. just say that. don't parrot toxic game journo shit and don't get mad at people for interpreting your posts on its own terms and not just assuming better faith for you

>>8528627
yeah you uh use items to fight enemies. you have to map all kinds of other items to the slots to do the same exact thing anyway. you think if the combat bothered you so much it'd be worth it
>i honestly cant think of another action game with enemies designed like OoT
...you can't think of another game where an enemy is on guard than exposes its weak point? seems like you have egoraptor's mental deficiencies too

>>8528650
>what ideal sonic game are you even referring to where he has no friends?
one that hasnt been made. how is this a concept that you missed? is your reading comprehension that poor? i said that they should make a game entirely of speed stages like the adventure games, no gimmicks, no friends with completely different playstyles to mar the game. christ fuck dude, READ. every single fucking 3d game either has friends that have completely different playstyles (treasure hunting, mechs, gay combat, guns, etc), OR some shitty gimmick attached to sonic (werehog, wisps, 2d sections, etc).

its a very simple fucking concept. stop thinking im trying to say something im not like "friends = bad".

sonic 3 was great (as i've said in another post) and i wouldnt mind if friends were in, if they played the same core way sonic does, but have some little extra thing that enhances the experience (like mobility through flight/climbing) as long as the CORE LEVEL EXPERIENCE is similar to the speed stages of the adventure games.

>>8528663
i cant think of any other game where the enemies 100% evade every attack you throw at them as they idly circle around you, and you wait for them to do their attack so you can finally actually hit them. iron knuckle is much more standard and COMBAT oriented, not "take time menuing, or take time waiting". even still, its an extremely basic game. its rough as fuck.

>>8528669
Seriously play Robo Blast 2 if you haven't. It's kind of crude in some regards, because it is still a Doom mod at it's core, but they got all of the fundamentals right, and totally proved once and for all that it's doable, and not even that hard to do. Sega just don't want to make it.

>>8528659
its not parroting anything, least of shitty game journos. every time sonic's friends show up, they give them their own entirely different playstyle and/or level style. the friends bring their own gimmicks because "they have to be unique", so they can fuck off as a safety measure. but then with just sonic, they still shoehorn in dumb gimmicks like werehog and wisps and shit. you're just completely retarded for thinking it had anything to do with the characters existing, and not paying attention to how friends are implemented in regards to the conversation. learn to read.

>>8528674
That's not how OOT works at all. That's how certain enemies work. Mainly the ones with swords. That's not how a bat works, for example.
Plus, loads of games have enemies that make you wait for openings, or rely on special weapons to kill.

>>8528680
i just looked up a video on it and saw the first stage. you're right that its a good proof of concept, but it looks REALLY rough to me. it doesnt look like it controls well, and its a little too "mario free roam", instead of "go from point A to point B". dont get me wrong, SA2 hallways arent exactly ideal either, but there is a middle ground to be found where you can take alternate/branching routes for different reasons/rewards. also the enemies are kind of non-threatening and ignorable. it IS consistent, and it IS just sonic with basic sonic functions. thats all we want. i just dont think its actually good "final design", but it is a proper proof of concept that should be heeded.

>>8528705
It's a little rough to control at first, but once you get a feel for the controls it's surprisingly smooth and intuitive, which is pretty much what Sonic should be.
https://youtu.be/kKvC8I9c03U

>>8528705
Just play the game

I don't know how Arin keeps skirting past cancel culture when he keeps teetering on the edge of turning the mob against him all the time
They even attempted to get Danny Sexbang cancelled for having sexbang (shock and horror) and it was like shooting a nerf gun at an elephant but at least they tried

>>8528739
ok, that is a significant refinement of level design over the start.
>>8528752
no, i want them to make an official release like this.

>>8528845
probably because dan didnt actually do anything wrong, and people were blowing half truths out of proportion. also arin hasnt done anything wrong of significant importance; the worst he has is bad opinions on games.

>ITT: underages who eat celeb opinions versus boomers who actually played the game
For me, it was a blast as a kid and I spent a fuck load of time jamming to crush40 and raising chao. Also the multiplayer was fun. I do recall it being clunky to a degree (especially racing) but overall it was fun for what I had at the time. I admit going back after playing better 3d games it feels worse but it's by no means a "bad" game. Anyone ITT trying to make it sound like you hit a gamebreaking bug every time you play a level is a zoomer who watches too many YouTube personalities

>>8529603
The bugs aren't even the problem. They don't help, but buggy games can still be fun. The problem is that the Sonic gameplay is just the bare minimum that it needs to be, and everything else is worse than the Sonic gameplay.
I even like these games up to a point, but I'm under no illusions that they're particularly good, or that they hold a candle to Sonic 3.

So how the hell is it they still haven't gotten 3D Sonic down correctly yet when these fan game projects seem to get hot Sonic should play in 3D far more than Sega ever has?

To be honest, I kinda like playing Sonic's "shitty friends". Amy's hammer-bounce is my shit.

>>8524525
People don’t understand part of what made these games sick.
You can still go back to the early days of YouTube and find peoples Final Rush fastest times or Crazy Gadget times, sometimes filmed camera on tv. I will never forget the first time I saw someone flip off of the map on City Escape.
This game has the social thing that m64 and mk64 had, not to the same extent but it existed. People shared their times, their strats, and people wanted to share them because not all of the tricks, shortcuts, or general time savers were easily figured out and people would put some serious time into these games. And while this game definitely has low lights, the satisfaction of nailing your movement with sonic is close to unmatched to any game at the time and comparable maybe to a handful now

>>8529603
This game probably has the best sound track of any game ever.
That’s on god.
Please try to step at me.

>>8524525
Imagine being a faggot and liking any Sonic game. Couldn't be me.

>>8529895
advance 1 and 3 do this kind of variety right. the characters all have distinct abilities (amy especially) that make them not just feel like sonic reskins but the game doesn't force you into a different genre to use them

>>8530045
Which is another thing Robo Blast 2 does well.

>>8529954
Smash Bros Ultimate.

>>8529703
>2d sonic
Hold right to win, the game

In 2001 I thought the game was a letdown other than the Sonic Shadow parts

>>8530104
poor

>>acclaimed for years as the pinnacle of the series
nigga what
even as a kid, I thought it was worse than SA1 in many ways

>>8530104
There are more 2d sonic games than Advance 2

>>8528593
>landmark in video game history? sure. but its not exactly good.
This. I hate that we romanticize shit just because "it changed the world". Nukes changed the world for the fucking worse. Politics isn't much better. Just because it made an impact, does not mean it's fucking good. Most shit CANNOT be great first try. Things have to be refined to remove the shit and keep the good parts.

>>8530171
I like it because it's a good game. The degree to which it was "the first" whatever the fuck is overstated anyway.

>>8528705
>"go from point A to point B".
Stop. Please. I'm fucking tired of Sonic being linear trash. Ratchet 1 does this better, Spyro does this shit better, even fucking Robo Blast 2 does this better. Just make a 3D fucking map where I can go wherever the fuck I please with set goal points I can go to for shit that actually makes it worth a damn, not this "HURR DURR GOTTA GO FEST TO THE END OF THE PATH WITH ZERO GAMEPLAY COMPLEXITY

I fucking want CD Opening Sonic the Hedgehog, yet you bitchfucks keep wanting fucking temple run: Flash edition

>>8530104
>Hold right to win, the game
Post gameplay in S3K of this.

>>8530324
Why the fuck are you even playing Sonic games? Absolutely none of them give you what you're looking for in this case. Frontiers is your only hope.

>>8530203
Doesn't change my post, sorry. Good isn't objective. The stone wheel was "good" but not in 2022. Open fires were "good" but not in 2022.

>>8530369
>Why the fuck are you even playing Sonic games?
Because the gameplay of the classics were tight but wasted on being stuck in "complete the level the near exact same way every time" era of gaming. Like I think it's not as bad for 2D Sonic, but 3D Sonic being 3D by definition should not be linear. It's fundamentally limiting, which is the entire reason 3D Sonic failed since SA1 to today. Games like that cannot last, look at Kirby. Look at Pokemon. You can't just make linear games with the exact same approuch all players are forced to take last forever. You have to let the player fuck around under THEIR control with THEIR approach at playing the game for them to last the tests of time.

Look at Mario 64. Look at Minecraft. Look at Fortnite. ALl of these games have the same concept: Freedom. Freedom to do whatever the fuck you want to do. Which is literally Sonic's characterization since the classics.

>>8530398
levels like speed highway in sa1 sound like this in that it even tops the best of 3&k with all the multiple paths. the problem is sa1 doesn't commit to this kind of design for half the levels or so. though to its credit you can pretty much always sequence break which sa2 fucked up hard

>>8531195
>levels like speed highway in sa1 sound like this in that it even tops the best of 3&k with all the multiple paths.
Just remove the bottomless pits that make up 99% of the level which makes up 99% of all modern 3D Sonic games, then you'd be right.

> the problem is sa1 doesn't commit to this kind of design for half the levels or so.
Because it's too "expensive" for Sonic Team. Look at Beta Windy Valley, that's the only time 3D Sonic was ever good.

>. though to its credit you can pretty much always sequence break which sa2 fucked up hard
I agree with that, unless you use TAS but that's faggot shit.

>>8531504
>Just remove the bottomless pits that make up 99% of the level
please. the second half of the level literally has none

>>8531829
>. the second half
Any at all is bad. And fuck you using "le ground floor half" as an excuse just makes it more retarded that you die for getting to the fucking ground "too soon". This isn't fucking Castlevania, the ground below the screen isn't gone you faggot, stop cheap killing people because of shit programming

>>8531914
just falling into a random part of the second half whenever you fuck up sounds like really good design. why don't you just git gud at the first half? four year old me handled it fine

>>8529993
This. Sega died for a reason guys. No Sega game can even measure up to the worst Nintendo game.