/vr/ - Retro Games

it's not that it won because Sony was so smart, but Sega and Nintendo dropped the ball real hard

Marketing

>controlled the CD production so they could cut costs
>offered better deal to developers
>console wasn't bottlenecked to death with stupid design mistakes
>didn't have an asshole like Yamauchi burning bridges
>SEGA was doing sudoku to itself so it left SONY as the only credible CD-ROM console maker
>created studios in three continents as well as good relationships with developers all over the world, providing them a immense catalogue
>smart marketing that catered to adults instead of kids
>cheap games, later easily piratable
>good games
>wasn't released 2 years late like the N64
it was the perfect storm

Square soft, enix and namco
Best investments ever made

>>8504682
The PS1 may have won at the time but the N64 has the larger legacy today. I find PS1 games boring, they entered the early 3D era on such a weak chip which made open world or big platformers either impossible or down right boring. Most of the games were just 2D RPGs or racers. It's simply not the thing for me, Nintendo was bold with the N64, they fully left 2D behind and went all in on the SGI chip, and it shows. In a way I view the PS1 as an SNES with a 3D rendering chip and without Nintendo games.

>>8504706
lotsa subjective opinions in there bud

>>8504707
is there any other kind?

>>8504736
>the N64 has the larger legacy today
this seems to be an appeal to objectivity.

>>8504749
well, at least online where a lot of retro enthusiasts hang out, i've seen a lot more discussions about mario 64 or ocarina of time or majora's mask or goldeneye and N64 modding and rom hacking than I have seen discussion of PS1 games. maybe it's just the communities i'm in, i dunno, but it seems like N64 has attracted a decent cult following

>>8504682
Not only were nintendo super stricy puritans they were also using CARTRIDGES, no storage space at all

>>8504751
Almost like Nintendo fans are heavily Nintendo-centered and obsessed with their products to an unhealthy amount.

>Easy to program
>Had Sony backing it and Sony was helping the development of CD media
>Sony was investing in the right companies to pull them in to make games

God I miss unpozzed Sony.

>>8504682
Purely timing, people were into the big grandiose stories at the time and Sony delivered
FF7 single handedly cemented a spot for Sony on top and the hits just kept on rolling from there

>>8504706
Nah. More AAA modern titles are cinematic akin to FFVII than exploratory like Mario 64/OoT.

>>8504754
>they were also using CARTRIDGES, no storage space at all
Why is this point so commonly brought up when it's blatantly false? Most of that extra "space" on PS1 games was going towards FMVs and audio. Audio is important I suppose third party games did often skimp out on that, but it's also important to note: Cartridges were extremely fast methods of storage at the time. It was often said that carts could practically act as an extension of the N64's RAM at their speed. This allowed open world games on the N64 to flourish and for actors and locations to load instantly. Now imagine a game like Majora's Mask on PS1. Spoiler: it simply wouldn't work. What they may have lacked in storage they made up for in highly efficient compression and speed.
Many people seem to overlook this when talking about these systems historically

>>8504751
Yeah because us normal kids talked about them years ago, only now pockets of nintendo fans are able to join up

>>8504772
Which is why they suck.
There's a reason why people call Sony's exclusives glorified movies.

>>8504683
It's funny how people act as if Sony's success was a fluke, as if NEC, 3DO and Atari weren't all trying to destroy the Nintendo/Sega bimonopoly and failed.

>>8504789
I don’t disagree, but saying that FFVII was more influencing.

>>8504759
>God I miss unpozzed Sony.
Firing Kutaragi was their undoing.
>>8504789
>There's a reason why people call Sony's exclusives glorified movies.
Nintentards aren't people.

>>8504682
The playstation was originally going to be an add on for the snes, so take that as you will.

>>8504874
Thanks for the info Scott

>>8504706
>N64 has the larger legacy today
If you mean that Mario and Zelda are still popular franchises, that has to do with Nintendo keeping the quality extremely high. Even the worst Mario or Zelda is a top ten for the generation.

>>8504890
I can easily name 10 titles better than Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker or Twilight Princess in the 6th gen. And let's not even mention 7th gen (which isn't retro anyway).

>>8504882
I wish I wasn't so attracted to him.

>>8504682
They had more money.

>>8504909
ah yes, that's why the XBOX sold 150 million units

>>8504682
Vertical integration. Sony was already making every kind of entertainment device besides a game console. The part they could have fucked up was software, but some genius manager decided to court the best devs from gen4 and get them to choose PlayStation over Ultra64.

>>8504898
Oh!

>Sony attracted third party developers when nintendo didn't
>they used discs which helped the above as devs were excited about getting CD quality music, FMV and more storage space, and could print them cheaper than making cartridges
>Sony realised the market was changing. the 5-10 year olds who played super mario bros in 1985 were now 15-20 and didn't want to play cute animal cartoon games anymore, the console unit's look and the games they published for it were aimed at that demographic
>Sony was a tech company so could manufacture components for the disc drive and circuit board in house for a lower cost, nintendo and sega had to buy them from suppliers at a markup

>>8504784
The thing about cartridges is while they are vastly superior for read speed, they were a shitload more expensive and while you say audio and FMV, you are also forgetting texture sizes

>>8504706
Holy shit lmao what the fuck are you talking about, the playstation itself is the legacy which spanned some of the best selling consoles of all time and it still going to this day.
Wtf i don't like playstation either but you must be fucking delusional or something.

>>8504938
/vr/ Nintentards have been trying to push this narrative of PS1 being 99.9% shovelware, with every single one of its classics aging badly (which is hilarious because they don't run at ten literal frames per second). There are several N64 games I love but it's sad they feel compelled to never admit that the different systems had good stuff too because of their cult-like behavior.

>>8504706
That "legacy" is that many people insist the 32-bit generation has "aged horribly", when in fact, it's merely the N64 that fails to stand up, whilst the PlayStation and Saturn remain extremely strong consoles with excellent libraries and sharp, crisp visuals with high framerates. The 32-bit generation's good reputation has been thoroughly sullied by shit Nintendo hardware and games.

>>8504682
>What went so right with PS1?
It was just the right kind of game system that hit just at the right confluence of technology.
>How did Sony beat Nintendo?
After Nintendo screwed Sony over the Snes CD-Rom they had technology and the motivation of spite to screw over Nintendo back.

Sony's money and marketing arm was unprecedented; they could buy studios and mass market games in a way that Nintendo and Sega couldn't. They bought franchises like Tomb Raider and FF as PS1 exclusives and gave them huge multimillion dollar promotional campaigns. This had never been done before in the history of video games.

>>8504957
>whilst the PlayStation and Saturn remain extremely strong consoles with excellent libraries and sharp, crisp visuals with high framerates

>>8504957
Not that anon, but that's subjective too, personally i see it the opposite of what you're saying there, playstation is one of the reason why i don't like that generation and late 1990s in general these days, but i recently tried to get into N64 and I gotta say, i really think it was great for the time, but yeah, perhaps gameplay wise and gaming overall playstation was something else.

>>8504983
yeah waverace autist, we know you love the n64. Powerslave on PS1 was an odd port that didn't work as well as the Saturn version. 1 game doesn't change an overwhelming trend.

>>8504995

>>8505000
bot reply

>>8505002
Mad reply.

note how the script starts shitposting about saturn games in a playstation thread for some reason.

>>8504906
You could try killing yourself

>>8505006
That 3d landscape, complexity and view distance in 1996 was really fucking impressive, and the gameplay in Tomb Raider didn't really need the higher framerate.

>>8505000
Show us another 28MHz machine that can run Quake 1 faster.

>>8505006
>>8505000
>>8504983
These are just examples of the Saturn dipping to framerates that would be considered typical on the N64. Typical Saturn performance is still far smoother than the bottlenecked and constrained N64 managed. And let's not even mention the PlayStation.

>>8504938
Look at any online community, look at which console is discussed more. Look at which set the standard for 3D games. Each time it's the N64.
>>8504957
The N64 doesn't fail to stand up. The hardware was incredible for it's time, 93.75 mhz CPU, 62.5mhz RCP which handled visuals and audio, full screen anti-aliasing, 3 point bilinear texture filtering, perspective correction, highly customizable microcode, z-buffering, gourad shading, 24 bit color depth processing, 21 bits on screen (compare to Ps1 with only 16 bits on screen..)
in comparison, ps1 only had 33.86mhz cpu, had CDs which were a very slow format, N64 could load data instaneously, ps1 had 2mb RAM as opposed to the 4mb (expandable to 8mb) on N64, Ps1 had no perspective correction, used affine texture mapping, no z-buffer, no texture filtering, no onboard anti-aliasing, highly inaccurate polygons that jittered (N64 had very accurate polygons, see RCP microcodes..) and the PS1 was very slow in terms of speed, so it could only mostly handle 2D games, and 3D games were severely limited. if you would try to run any N64 game on Ps1 that wasn't 2D, the console would probably explode. N64 still has a massive homebrew community; making roms and optimizing the console, looking into beta history, speedruns, and n64 modding and software is highly sought after; so are SGI development machines like the indy.. PS1 is only worshipped by JRPG nerds and sony fanboys; look at the legacy, most of ps1's library is forgettable shovelware, controls were awful, the platformers all ripped off mario 64, the only open world games played like total shit at a choppy framerate and looked like visual vomit and the controls were god awful: now tell me again how the ps1 is superior?

>>8505006
kek 1

>>8505006
>>8505132
kek 2

The reason the PS1 version of Tomb Raider runs as well as it does is partially faster 3D hardware, but mostly because they decreased the draw distance significantly.

>>8505136
correct, ps1 could not handle any distances, it was best for racing games and 2d games, its fucking embarassment. n64 could do practically unlimited draw distance if you edited the memory of a game

>>8505132
>>8505136
I'd take a solid framerate, more pleasant visuals, and atmospheric darkness in the distance, over running like inconsistent shit, a grubby palette, and a draw distance of a few extra unimportant tiles.

>>8505131
Shouldn't you be at school right now?

>>8505151
???

>>8505150
> 100% pure uncut grade A cope

Yeah, god forbid you actually be able to see what it is you're looking at in a game designed around exploring wondrous caverns, lost cities, and tombs.

The comparison gets even worse in some of the Egypt areas, especially the one with the giant sphynx statue. You don't know what I'm talking about because you have never played Tomb Raider on either console though.

>>8505131
>93.75 mhz CPU
Too bad the terrible RAMBUS architecture and use of RDRAM lead to such stifling RAM latency, effectively preventing RAM from being read any quicker than 640 nanoseconds. Not great for a console that executes code primarily from RAM. The IPS whilst reading from RAM is a fraction of the Saturn and PlayStation.
>no z-buffer
Too bad Z-buffer usage on the N64 caused triangle rasterization speed to be cut in 1/3, not great for a console already constrained by RAM latency.
>no texture filtering, no onboard anti-aliasing
I and many others prefer crisp and sharp visuals rather than the blurry mush of the N64.
>the only open world games played like total shit at a choppy framerate and looked like visual vomit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA_e5c3XG80

>>8505158
I've completed every release except the mobile ports.
PC>PSX>NGAGE>SAT

>>8504682
Nintendo pushed a lot of big publishers away and lost many big franchises as a result, partially from the use of carts. Square Enix and Capcom just to name some major ones. Capcom did have a few releases on the N64 but losing franchises like Final Fantasy (and all the other RPGs SE did) and Megaman were a big blow to the N64. Just imagine if the incredible sales FF7 had were on the N64 instead of the PS1 how much that could have shaken things up. The N64 was really only held up and kept afloat with incredible 1st and 2nd party games, not the say the PS1 didn't have a ton of great 1st party games but if Nintendo had managed to keep companies like SE around it could have been a much closer competition sales wise. Carts also caused the price of games to typically be more expensive on N64 vs PS1.

Coming from someone who was a huge Nintendofag growing up they definitely had it coming though they had treated their 3rd parties like shit since the NES all that was needed was a good ship for them to jump off on to leave Nintendo.

>>8505161
>I and many others prefer crisp and sharp visuals rather than the blurry mush of the N64.
that's your choice, but texture filtering was an important leap forward in console hardware.. only looks blurry on an lcd anyway

>>8505131
all your technical talk i dont give a fuck about and yes the n64 is more powerful but it also came out later so isnt it obvious it should be the case,fucking retard.
also taking /vr/ as an example i see ps1 games being discuss just as much as n64 games the difference is theres more ps1 games being talked about than the 3 or so n64 games.

>>8505164
No you haven't

>>8505213
>poor opinions on games
>poor opinions of their fellow anons
You're more consistent than Saturn TR's framerate.

It’s still strange to me how ff7 was so big. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great game, but the normie crowd outside of Japan does NOT play JRPGs unless it’s pokemon

>>8505243
At least I don't lie on an anonymous videogame imageboard.

>>8505254
Neither do I. What do are you wrongfully and baselessly presuming I'm lying about?
The way I ranked them? A particular platform you think I don't own it on and haven't beaten it on? Do you think I've actually completed the IOS/Android ports too and was just hiding it?

>>8505292
You're full of shit, I can tell. You haven't played Tomb Raider on "every platform except the mobile ones".

You're lying on an anonymous imageboard, which is really sad. Rethink your life.

>>8504784
N64 had a better GPU than PS1, but textures were usually worse because storage was at a premium

>>8505325
I had the N-Gage ready just in case you specified the more unusual one.
My latest save was right before the victory slide.

>>8505369
based n-gage enthusiast.
>>8505325
virgin projector.

>>8505369
>I had the N-Gage ready just in case you specified the more unusual one.

This is just sad. Also

> He bought an N-Gage

>>8505369
>actually paying money for an ngage
you should kill yourself right now

>>8504682
They mostly relied on Sega's self-destruction and then taking over their place in the market. If Sega had decided to work on the Saturn for an extra year it would have been the ultimate gaming system and Sony would be fighting for 2nd place at least until the PS2.

By having more than 5 games worth playing

>>8505369
Based

>>8504706
This is some Scott the Woz Nintendo dick sucking delusion levels

>>8505161
>effectively preventing RAM from being read any quicker than 640 nanoseconds
That's absolutely horrific. Did Nintendo or SGI seriously not have reservations about using RDRAM early in hardware development? I assume that would have been noticed very quickly and rectified. Either decoupling the CPU and putting it on its own bus or going slower, but wider, with SDRAM and having quicker RAM access times.

>>8505325
Commit seppuku.

>strong third-party support right out the gate, mainly because third-parties didn't want to deal with Nintendo or Sega's bullshit anymore
>great hardware design influenced by high-end Namco arcade boards from the era
>great software/devkit design thanks to contributions and feedback from Euro-based Amiga veterans and Psygnosis
>Sony had their own R&D division specifically for CD's which made manufacturing costs barely a concern at all
>great marketing, PSX was poised as the "spiritual" successor to the Super Famicom in Japan, while in the US it was marketed mainly towards edgy teenagers and tourneyfags and marketed to EDM clubbers/chavs in Europe mainly with Wipeout

Mostly style over substance shit that barely edged out Nintendo because it at least had a few actual playable games on it unlike the fucking disaster that was the N64.
Meanwhile real gamers played the Saturn and it "failed" because the popular gaming trend of the time (and ever since) was to play shitty games that looked good, which the N64 and PS1 excelled at.

>>8504706
Lol at all the seething psx fans

>>8504682
It wasn't the hardware (although it was better)
It wasn't the games (although they were better)
It wasn't the design of the console (although it was better).
it wasn't the more ergonomic sane controller (althought it was wildly better)
It wasn't even the 2slot swappable memory cards and the logo an (although they were both better).

Do you want to know what it was?
It was the fact that Nintendo 64 was for babies, while Sony Playstation was for the cool kids. Guess what kids want to be...

>>8504957
>sharp, crisp visuals
Yeah, too sharp, like, you can cut your eyes on those pixels. Yikes. N64 has this problem too but the PSX and Saturn were the patron saints of this shit. 3D gaming really didn't become tolerable on modern TVs or VGA monitors until the Dreamcast and PS2.

>>8504983
>>8505000
>>8505006
These games run at zero FPS on the N64 because it couldn't even run them. That's how trash it is.

>>8505536
The cool kids were playing Goldeneye and Turok in the late 90s. The Playstation was the console your parents got you for Christmas instead of an N64 because it could play your parents' rock and roll and Frank Sinatra CDs. It just so happened that it had a decent game library. But Final Fantasy was never cool in any time period. It was popular but it wasn't cool. Too anime.

>>8505434
but those 5 games are the greatest games of all time!

>>8505614
PSX was the console you got if you were older than 10 years.

>>8505614
>The cool kids were playing Goldeneye
Anon.
The cool kids didn't buy consoles with ads like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uDQ8mTYUHQ
You weren't a cool kid. I hate to break it to you, you were the bratty younger brother tag along.

>>8505131
Mega Man Legends was better than Mega Man 64. It's just that simple.

>>8504682
nintendo just squandered their potential 2-year technical edge by cheaping out with unified memory and not even using CDs, so playstation was the incumbent and had all the advantages on every level and N64 had almost no relevant compensation in specs compared to what it would've needed to have to keep up. they thought they had this insanely cost-effective design and it turned out to just be not that powerful.

>>8504706

I literally can't even think of an N64 game besides OoT and maybe Majora's Mask that anyone even plays. Original smash bros? golden eye? N64 was a dumbfuck console that looked like ass and had basically no good games. Your opinion is so bad and wrong that I'm in disbelief

>>8505657
Actual cool kids played the Playstation, and only used the N64 for a couple of multiplayers

>>8505657
Nintendo should've put more focus on marketing the speed of the N64. It was blistering fast

>>8505594
Lol cope. The N64 if optimized properly could run any PS1 game faster. Third party devs were just lazy.

>>8505998
It probably could, but it's just a question of if it'll pay off and you will have to cut polycounts in a lot of areas and of course texture res.

>>8504682
CD Roms and the Games, mostly CD Roms though, which caused more games to go to Sony. Sticking to cartridges was a big mistake for Nintendo

>>8505131
>Look at any online community, look at which console is discussed more. Look at which set the standard for 3D games.
Perhaps cause it became like obsolete niche that everyone mostly can keep talking about it mostly there wtf, while ps2 had backward compatibility already.
Yeah quake and unreal ungines set the standard for 3d games lmao.

>>8505970
Seeing that south park doll really tells me I am getting old.
Still watch that crap from time to time and I am enjoyed by it.


Pc master race, even back in the days due to a rich daddy.
Yeah, I was that kind of kid.

If the Playstation was so great, then why was every game that it shared with the Saturn (with the exception of Wipeout and Doom) better on the Saturn?

>>8506119
Other than 2D games, what else?

>>8505131
the N64 had unified memory dumbshit. all those numbers are meaningless when other consoles had their own separate memory blocks just for graphics thus avoiding the issues discussed in >>8505161

>>8504706
If you think about it that "legacy" is present only with Nintendo and Nintendo fans.
And jannies if you are reading this, go choke on a dick you cock loving faggots.

>>8505642
This.
t. Got one for Christmas '97 at age 12. I already had NES and Genesis. CDs and the library (Tekken, racing games, even Crash Bandicoot) just felt more mature than getting cartridge-based system to play bing bing wahoo for the third generation in a row.

>trusted tech giant releases cheap powerful console that's easy to program for and has all the features developers and customers want

the only mistake sony made with the PS1 was only having 2 controller ports and nixing the expansion port.

>>8506119
Castlevania SotN was better on the playstation

>>8504682
sony paid capcom for resident evil 2 exclusive
sony paid core for tomb raider 2 and tomb raider 3 exclusives

>>8506292
TO be fair, it was a sloppy, rushed port by a brand new team that didn't know what the hell they were doing (even going so far as to write catty comments about how lost they were in the game's code).

There were a lot of other 3D games that ran better on the PS1, but they were generally developed with the PS1 as the lead platform and the Saturn version was a port (stuff like Destruction Derby and Die Hard Arcade are good examples). When a developer had skill, or took their time, you would get Saturn games like Powerslave or Resident Evil that were better than the PS1 versions.

The only way to get really great performance out of the Saturn was to play to its strengths, and you couldn't do that if your entire codebase was written for the PS1 and you were trying to port it to the Saturn. That said, every once in a while you'd get a quick and dirty port on the Saturn that still managed to be better than the PS1 version (Alien Trilogy is the best example, it runs better and has a better draw distance than the PS1 version even though it is rumored to only one one of the Saturn's CPUs).

In this modern age where anyone with a job can buy a Japanese Saturn and a PseudoSaturn cart for $150, and the PS1 can be emulated on a Microwave, it's kinda retarded to console war when you can literally play every game on both systems extremely easily.

>>8504706
Lmao you know how to piss the ps1 fanboys off. I like the n64 better too in a lot of ways. For one thing, when mario 64 came out in 96 there was absolutely nothing like it. The size of the world and the movement and controls were amazing. Croc came out a year later and felt years older, its not a bad game but it pales in comparison. Crash felt like a 2d game that changed axis or planes a lot. Great game but mario 64 felt like a new open world.

Ps1 had the rpgs no doubt about it. But Panzer Saga was great competition. And Pokemon was actually the biggest rpg of the era by sales.

Shmups goes to saturn hands down, fighting games too, but thats only for hardcore importers. FPS were better on n64 with goldeneye and perfect dark. Powerslave on Saturn is also great. I didnt care for Medal of Honor. Best rail shooters ever are panzer dragoon and starfox.

The ps1 really won out because of its 3rd party support. Metal gear solid, tomb raider 2, FF7, Crash, Spyro the list goes on…

>>8506621
Die Hard arcade was a Saturn exclusive. It wasn’t on the playstation 1 (you can tell because it was good)

>>8505131
Specs on paper don't matter if the graphics look like complete ass in practice.

>>8506534
>sony paid capcom for resident evil 2 exclusive
Bullshit. All PS1 Resident Evil games were developed for PS1 first and then ported by outsourced teams. RE2 was delayed and by the time it was ready to be ported, Saturn was basically done so Dreamcast port was made instead. It's a known fact Saturn port was planned in 1996-1997 before the first iteration of RE2 was scrapped.

>>8506950
>FPS were better on n64 with goldeneye and perfect dark
Wrong.

>>8506119
Because Segay lost like $200 for each unit sold and were practically on the verge of going out of business.

>>8505206
I very much doubt /vr/ has seen threads about even 10% of the Playstations library.

The N64 had games that literally lay the groundwork for 3D games in their respective genres. This is undisputable.

Yes, Sony won gen 5, but the N64 aged better.

>>8507810
Hows the 4 people multiplayer?

>>8504682
The games on that console either defined whole genres or were soulful af with tons of replayability
>MGS
>Resident Evil
>Tekken
>Final Fantasy
>Gran Turismo
>Ridge Racer Type 4
>Parasite Eve
>Crash Bandicoot
Even lesser known games:
>Mega Man Legends
>Team Buddies
>Galerians
>Vagrant Story
>Ape Escape
were incredible. It's portfolio easily beat the shit out of the competition.

It's the same reason why they really fucking suck today. They don't focus on that type of games anymore. Pic rel

>>8508072
>The N64 had games that literally lay the groundwork for 3D games in their respective genres
Did they really? Such as what? Other than Banjo, I don't recall seeing a N64 game with substantial influence on newer games.

>>8505952
Goldeneye is an excellent game FPS connoisseurs still play with 60FPS and mouselook mod. Only pedo tendies still play OoT and MM in 2020s.

>>8508197
>SOTN
>Spyro
>Chrono Cross
>Silent Hill
>Xenogears
>Syphon Filter
>Tony Hawk
>Ace Combat
>Medievil
>Rayman
>Driver
>Medal of Honour
we could be here all day, literally a lifetime's supply of great games all on one console
the n64 had a few great ones but you could have very easily have played them all

>>8508197
>pic
California was a mistake. Americans destroy and subvert everything.

Nintendo with the n64 was a bold innovator trailblazing the way for other developers to copy them. Sony just had more money to advertise to them dumb masses on what to buy. There is a reason why n64 is so big in the retro community today while psx is mostly abandoned and forgotten

>>8508245
>n64 was a bold innovator
What did they innovate?

>>8508080
Thanks, much better than yours.

>>8507810
Thats a great Saturn fps you posted. Powerslave, Duke Nukem 3d, Quake, Krazy Ivan, Gunriffon 1 and 2, man the Saturn had such great fps games. Not quite as good as the excellent Nintendo 64 library but still way better than the playstation one

>>8508329
Why play this on anything but a pc?

>>8508278
Play a third person game involving precise control from a few years before mario 64. Now play one made a few years after.

>>8508245
Fanboy console warrior

>>8508346
Why play this at all when the best game ever exists.

>>8508245
I will never understand N64fags. They chose to simp over one of Nintendo's weakest consoles. Worse than the NES, the SNES, the GameBoy in all its alterations, the Game Cube too. Only the Wii, WiiU and Virtual Boy are less appealing than the N64. Something about that system that caused arrested development for the ones who had it.

>>8508207
Ocarina of Time
Goldeneye and Perfect Dark
Super Mario 64
Mario Kart 64
Star Fox 64
Super Smash Bros.
F-Zero X
Just to name a few.
Some of these outright invented their respective genres in 3D. Others were so much better than anything else that they made the competition obsolete.
Now try and name the great Playstation alternatives to the games I mentioned, lmao.
>inb4 "at least we had incelRPGs"
My condolences.

>>8508346
can you even do splitscreen in Quake 2 PC?

>>8508392
Really looking back to it...Tomb Raider 1 was more important than all of those. Nintendo's contribution to video games during the 5th gen can be summed up as good advertising to young kids, nothing more.

>>8508420
And so it was in the 16-bit era as well. Sonic, Earthworm Jim, Another World, and countless other games paved the way for what games were to be like for the next decade, if not longer, leaving a huge influence that is still seen to this day. Meanwhile, Mario and Zelda, whilst considered by many to still be "good games", were languishing by comparison, and seemed previous-generational, no thanks also to the bottlenecked, underperformant, and largely deficient SNES hardware. The only time Nintendo can be said to have been truly influential was in the 8-bit era, where their software and hardware efforts were almost immediately surpassed by their more competent competitors.

>>8508392
>Some of these outright invented their respective genres in 3D
OK let's see
>Zelda
First 3D action adventure? no
>Goldeneye
First 3D FPS? no
>Super Mario 64
First 3D Platformer? no
>Mario Kart
First 3D Racer? no
>Super Smash Bros
First 3D Fighter? no
>Star Fox 64
First 3D shmup? no
>F-Zero X
First 3D futuristic racer? no

Now please tell me how everything before them was unplayable, so I can complete the bingo

>>8506969
You're right, for some reason I got wrote Die Hard Arcade when I meant Die Hard Trilogy.

>>8508437
>Another World
Terrible game. No surprise it was made for the 'miga.

>>8508349
>mario 64
>precise
So only one game? And it only "innovates" on the controls, which is not even as good as FPS games from its era that started to embrace mouselook?

>>8508508
>All the Oddworld games
>Blackthorne
>Heart of Darkness
>Flashback
>Tomb Raider is the evolution of this style in 3D
More influential than Nintendo shit.

>>8504682
They didn’t try to screw developers and publishers out over every nickel like Nintendo did.
Take the cartridge format, Nintendo stuck with it so publishers would have to go through them for it instead of being able to source their own like they could with CDs on the PlayStation.

>>8508673
nah they were just cheap and didn't want to take a hit on hardware sales to make it back on software like every other manufacturer did. they thought they were too good for that kind of thing.

>>8504706
>most of the games were 2D rpgs or racers
man, i didn't even own a ps1, but i'm 100% fucking sure that you didn't

this is fantastic bait

you're right about the ps1 being a snes with a 3d render chip

>>8507619
They don't, though. N64 graphics were charming and beautiful, PS1 looked like a jaggy pixelated blob that warped. A total video vomit, and a travesty

>>8508278
The list is so long it probably wouldn't even fit. Superior hardware, software, development, SGI, etc

>>8508245
look here>>8508278

>>8508278
see here:
>>8505131

>>8510115
At least you could actually see something on PS1.

>>8510139
What is that supposed to mean? N64 games look much clearer to me, and I play on a trinitron. PS1 games are either fogged out to hell or have an abysmally low render distance, and if it isn't low, everything in the distance is pixelated as fuck.

>>8504682
There were many factors, but I think the biggest was that Sony was the only company that wasn't on meth when they were designing their console's architecture.

Atari Jaguar
>Somehow launched with major HARDWARE bugs that could never be fixed, made development painful, and destroyed the theoretical performance of the machine
>A task that was designed to take 1 cycle now needed 11 cycles in order to mitigate bugs

Sega Saturn
>Convoluted multi-CPU architecture that used quads instead of triangles, lacked transparency, shipped with terrible documentation and was half built for 2D
>Games that mastered the architecture still looked about on-par with PS1 games
>Saturn Shenmue looked dope I'll admit...

Nintendo 64
>Expensive cartridges with no storage space, a garbage texturing system (4kb of cache), and a bus design that bottle-necked the system by 60% in some cases
>It didn't have a dedicated audio chip which meant that audio processing stole CPU resources from the rest of the game

The PS1 in comparison was simple and straight forward to program for without any ridiculous bottlenecks or design oversights. They knew that 3D was the future, so they set out to design a system that had good performance at an affordable price point.

>>8510156
>N64 games look much clearer to me
now that's funny ;)

>>8510162
What does this prove? Awful draw distance? Is that all you have to show?
Look at Perfect Dark and get back to me ;)

>>8504784
Late N64 games used up to 64mb, but when the N64 launched in 1996 the standard cartridge size was 8mb and cost a (relative) fortune to mass produce. A PS1 disc held 650mb and could be printed for a penny.

Doom 2 on PC wasn't even 3D yet was already coming in at 14mb back in 1994.

The N64 also suffered from memory latency bottlenecks that meant it couldn't make full use of the cartridge speed advantage.

>>8510194
So? The cartridge still came in much faster than the CD, and dare I say it, Nintendo was right when their spokesperson said they would switch to discs when they were fast enough.

(Right now, cartridges offer faster access time and more speed of movement and characters than CDs. So, we'll introduce our new hardware with cartridges. But eventually these problems with CDs will be overcome. When that happens, you'll see Nintendo using CD as the software storage medium for our 64-bit system.")

Most PS1 games used that space quite redundantly and was incredibly slow to load which choked the possibility of larger game worlds.

Hell, even SGI themselves who were top industry experts said so themselves:

Howard Lincoln said, "[Genyo Takeda, the Nintendo engineer working with Silicon Graphics to design Project Reality] and those guys felt very strongly that it was absolutely essential to have it on a cartridge in order to do the kind of things that we wanted to do with Super Mario."

>>8510161
3DO
>The idea of a game console being a licensable standard like VHS or DVD sounds good on paper, but nobody was going to buy this shit at $699.

PC-FX
>Decided to make a console about anime FMV game when the industry was trending towards 3D game development

>>8510213
The actual reason Nintendo didn't use CDs was because they feared it would enable piracy, and they didn't want to give up the brutal control they had over cartridge production. Sony was a big player in CD land and was willing to pass the savings onto developers whereas Nintendo was the only player in N64 cartridge land and had strict manufacturing terms. An $80 N64 game has as little as $6 going to the actual developers with the majority going to Nintendo and the factory. A $40 PS1 game was way more profitable.

Any technical reason they came up with to justify cartridges was marketing spin. The N64, despite using "fast" cartridges, was still designed to load everything from its incredibly bottlenecked and laggy unified RAM setup. Mario 64 doesn't even stream from the cartridge during gameplay since each course is loaded entirely into memory. A CD version would have played identically outside of a longer pause after selecting a course star.

The storage trade offs weren't worth it.

>>8510193
Perfect Dark was able to get away with it because it completely disregarded care for holding frame rate

>>8508216
Imagine thinking everyone here is like califag trash.

>>8510264
>A CD version would have played identically outside of a longer pause after selecting a course star.
Really? Okay. What about games like Zelda, Majora's Mask?

>>8508697
the rest was shovelware.

>>8510321
Similar situation, a longer pause when Link moves to a different area.

>>8510604
https://youtu.be/zM6NLjlK0tE

The PS1 itself can handle OOT style room transitions. An N64 CD with its existing 4mb ram layout would probably be fine.

IIRC streaming chunks from the cart was only added in Majora's Mask. You can see it when you walk through a dark tunnel and it fades into a new area without triggering any kind of cinematic.

>>8504702
None of those dev houses received any media coverage, though. Core, DMA Design, and Psygnosis were the devs that sold the PlayStation to the western market. That's inarguable. Wasn't some spiky haired emo that was splashed across the covers of pop culture magazines everywhere, it was Lara Croft. Wasn't Tekken that was receiving TV time because of the (at the time) controversial nature of the game, it was GTA. And it wasn't Ridge Racer that was being played on huge screens in clubs across yurop, it was WipEout. The Japs were guilty of normalizing weebery through the PS, but they played little part in its initial success; in the marketing of the machine in the west.

>>8510807
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeOSWLGKuaE

>>8510841
That's Euro pop. Even says so in the thumbnail. Britain isn't Europe. We have about as much in common with the mainland culturally and philosophically as Japan does. Why do you think we were always at war with everyone? Is this you cope posting because American developers played little part in the initial success of the console that made gaming super mainstream? Cry more.

>>8510739
>https://youtu.be/zM6NLjlK0tE
holy fuck, the soul...

>>8510292
You now Sony relocated its HQ to California and isn't a Japanese company anymore, right?

>>8511776
>commifornia faggots censor Japanese games, despite it being a hypocritical double standard when their AAA first-party game includes a graphic mocapped sex scene
>smaller Japanese devs turn against Sony, developing primarily for Switch now instead
>PS4 sales decline significantly in Japan in the latter half of the gen, most of the PS5 consoles bought there are merely scalped and resold to Westerners

>>8510739
>The PS1 itself can handle OOT style room transitions
I mean we had Soul Reaver, the main problem with the PS1 is it probably couldn't deal with all the world geometry