/vr/ - Retro Games

Because they looked like shit. And blue shift sucked.

HD guns look better tho

>>8451289
>blue shift sucked
REEEE GTFOUTTA HERE WITH THAT PLEB OPINION REEE
OF still better though

>>8451265
>but Blue Shift was always meant to be played this way

Yup. Blue Shift adds a lot of custom models that were made for the campaign. Also, the first game to introduce Barney Calhoun. The security guard NPC was always called "Barney" in the game files. As a nickname to Barney Fife . But it was still the generic security guard NPC model for HL1. The HD model pack also has some additional models for Opposing Forces. They can be enabled in the Steam version in the options. Or disabled.

>>8451265
They changed the MP5 SMG model to M4

>>8451265
The models are fine. They just shouldn't have changed the Glock and MP5.

>>8451265
I don't know, I always thought they looked good.

>>8451289
Blueshift was ok.

>>8451330
They look a LOT better.

>>8451414
The carbine in the HD pack is a lot cooler IMO.

>>8451414
If it weren't for the ammo being shared with pistols, that would be a neat change.

>>8451385
>The HD model pack also has some additional models for Opposing Forces
It's missing new models for things that are unique to Op4. This creates an inconsistency between scientist zombies and soldier zombies. Not good.

Also, the HD pack in general doesn't upgrade regular headcrabs, even though the headcrabs on zombies have the upgraded model as seen on the PS2.

>>8451414
based

>>8452625
no it wouldn't, because the gun is still as inaccurate as an SMG but looks like a rifle. It's just wrong

>>8452664
That's a retarded argument. A pistol shouldn't be more accurate than an SMG either, yet it is in the game. The only logical conclusion is that, for lack of better simulation, the accuracy is determined by automatic recoil, which would be high on an M4 as well.

>>8452675
it's not. SMGs are almost universally more inaccurate than rifles in games

>>8452664
It wasn't suitable for the MP5 either, in reality that gun is more accurate and easier to shoot (especially at range) than a Glock 17 or Beretta 92 pistol could ever hope to be, even in full-auto, on top of being more powerful. The gun in the original game being modeled after an MP5 is a cosmetic thing as far as it matters, but that's fine, so I don't see the problem with cosmetically altering it to something else.

>>8452675
>the accuracy is determined by automatic recoil, which would be high on an M4 as well.
They really wouldn't be that bad, the AR15 might even have slightly less felt recoil than the MP5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_ciFgnNYYU
Here's a video of a Colt Model 733, almost the same model as the Colt Model 727 depicted with the HD pack, notice how the gun barely moves on him. Now add the weight of a slightly longer barrel, and the weight of the M203 grenade launcher, and the gun would be moving even less than this.

https://youtu.be/03onBTZPqyY?t=94
Here's an H&K MP5 in full-auto, and this is with tracer rounds, so you can get a pretty good idea at just how steady the gun is. Again, now add the weight of an M203 grenade launcher onto the gun (and this has been done IRL, Malaysian special forces do this), and the gun is going to recoil even less.

Both the AR15 family of rifles, and the MP5 subgun, are rather accurate firearms which are very easy to shoot in rapid and full-auto fire. Half-Life doesn't treat them like that, but that's because Half-Life isn't a /k/ Simulator, it's a semi-arcadeish action game.

>>8452712
I can think of many rifles which are more accurate than many subguns, but I can also think of many subguns which are more accurate than some rifles.

Older subguns from the earlier Cold War and World War eras, were designed to fire from an open bolt, meaning when ready to fire, the bolt is locked back, pulling the trigger lets it go to pick up a round from the magazine, loading it into the chamber, and firing it, all in one fast motion. Really old subguns were done this way because you could straight up get away with the bolt being a solid weight with a fixed firing pin and this would still work (though most would also feature an extractor for added reliability and ease of solving certain malfunctions). Being simplistic like this made guns like these really remarkably inexpensive to make, particularly for the WW2 period.
The noticeable delay before firing, and the weight shifting forward in your hands before the gun actually fires, does end up making it harder to shoot these kinds of guns for fine precision, but not impossible, it can be trained for, and even then it'll still do decent at the ranges that matter the most.

The MP5 fires from a closed bolt, like basically every assault rifle, or for that matter semi-automatic pistol, meaning everything's already ready when you pull the trigger, the hammer just has to strike the firing-pin and this happens in the blink of an eye. This makes the MP5 a lot easier to shoot with fine precision than many older subguns, though this doesn't make the biggest difference in recoil. The Uzi for instance fires from open bolt, fixed firing-pin and all, but being so very well balanced, the gun doesn't shift as much as most of its kin when firing, and it's not actually that different in precision or recoil to the MP5.

However, these aren't qualities reflected much in videogames, and least of all in unrealistic games such as Half-Life.

>>8451265
>NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST FIT A GRENADE LAUNCHER ON TO THE MP5

>>8451265
>Why do the HD models receive unanimous flak?
They aren't fully modeled

>>8451265
I think it's just a Half-Life 1 purist thing.

>>8452784
>>8452738
>>8452675
>>>/k/
This is a video games board
We're talking about guns in video games
Move your IRL autism elsewhere please

>>8451265
Original models had a similar art direction to the maps themselves, the HD models don't. The PS2 version fixes this slightly by giving the retinal scanners/health and HEV chargers HD models instead of having them use brushes

>>8452712
>in games

Even if that were a substantial argument, the fact that either wouldn't be present simultaneously completely invalidates any notion of needed distinction.

Why didn't you just bring up the damage of the guns? The MP5/M4 do 5 damage while the pistols do 8. That's obviously bizarre with the latter duo.

>>8452738
It would be that "bad", because it isn't bad.
If you played Half-Life from its original CD release, the accuracy would be significantly better over the Steam release. Valve screwed up.

>>8453303
>If you played Half-Life from its original CD release
That's honestly so long ago that I don't even remember, I played it at a friend's house and would eventually save up to buy that 'Generations' four game collection. I still remember the accuracy not being very great there.

>>8451265
It’s hard to describe the original models just feel crispy and nice while the new ones are too smooth or smth

>>8453407
The Generations pack likely came with a patch that broke the accuracy.

https://youtu.be/uKkJPFmDW9Q?t=139

Barney looks like a special needs child in HD.

The m4 is fine its just a carbine with a 9mm conversion kit big fuckin deal doesn't bother me. Purists are just nostalgiafagging retards there is literally no reason to use the old models. Barney actually looks like a human and not a ghoul it's a marked improvement.

>>8454505
He looks like a 4 polygon ghoul in regular look at his fucking neck mate.

The HD models are too detailed in an unappealing way. They're not really realistic enough to fall into the uncanny valley but they give me those same uncanny valley vibes. They're just so doughy and pasty looking. Aesthetically I just don't think they work, and they're not worth using when the option for some goofy polygonal 1998 scientists are right fucking there in the pause menu. If I want HD Half Life I'll go all the way and play Black Mesa.

>>8451265
ITT Gearbox apologists and Randy Pitchford fans

>>8451265
Half-Life: Source, Regular Steam Release of HL1, OR Xash 3d: Pick your Poison.<span class="fortune" style="color:#2dfc53">

Your fortune: Your heart grew three sizes![/spoiler]

>>8454661
stock hl from the original sierra cd, as gaben intended.

>>8454637
>The HD models are too detailed in an unappealing way.

You really got to look at this from when the game was released in 2001. At that point, the original Half-Life looked clunky in 2001. The devs originally made those models for the Dreamcast port, which was shit canned at the last moment. Blue Shift and the HD models were salvaged from that port and released on the PC as an expansion pack. At that point, they were a nice inclusion, just to make the game not look completely outdated in 2001. For quite a while, the HD pack wasn't even part of the Steam release. I remember installing them for Blue-Shift on Steam back in the day, and I had to download them from a different URL. I think valve added the option to turn them on with the Linux build updates. But the HD models were always the default in Half-Life Source.

>>8454798
>But the HD models were always the default in Half-Life Source.
They added that with the Linux update as well.

>>8454895
>They added that with the Linux update as well.

They were? Mayne I am wrong?: I have been using Linux since about 2007-ish. I flipped to Windows 7 though for many years and used that as my main OS. But when the Linux Steam client was released in 2012(?) I started using Linux again just to try the Steam betas. I think Half-Life 2 was the first game I played using Steam for Linux. Half-Life Source was also playable on Linux as well, because Valve ported the source engine. The HD model pack was enabled for me in HL-Source. Maybe you are right? I don't think there was an option to turn them off, GoldSRC engine was ported to Linux and MacOS with the inclusion of OpenGL in 2013. With this update, they also added an HD Model toggle switch in the game options. That option has only been there since 2013.

>>8454797
Based.

>>8451265
I can't say for everybody but i don't like them because of Beretta replacing Glock and M4 replacing MP5. The sound, accuracy and mag sizes stayed the same so both felt off. Other than that, they are fine, but those are major drawbacks.

>>8452738
>>8452784
You're a cool dude, fellow firearm enthusiast Anon. Merry Christmas.

>>8454798
>>8454895
when i played on windows in early 2013, the HD models were the default im pretty sure.

>>8454637
>The HD models are too detailed in an unappealing way. They're not really realistic enough to fall into the uncanny valley but they give me those same uncanny valley vibes.
They don't for me.

>If I want HD Half Life I'll go all the way and play Black Mesa.
The gameplay isn't as good though.

>>8455019
God, what I would give for a 24-bit software Half-Life.

>>8454798
>But the HD models were always the default in Half-Life Source.
No, they weren't.

>>8454661
Xash3D if it weren't legally questionable.

>>8451330
>kino mp5 is replaced with ugly m16
no

>>8451265
the og smg/riffle thing sounds atrocious. i prefer the hd one desu
all of it looks better with the pack
>>8451289
also blue shift is good except for the ending

>>8457929
same, i grew up with jaguar doom which had high color software processing. i love gzdoom in 32 bit software it looks so surreal.

>>8451445
>The carbine in the HD pack is a lot cooler IMO
you're gay and retarded and your opinion is irrelevant

the M4 looks and sounds better than the MP5, and the HECU were a straight upgrade

>>8451265
I didn't like how they replaced the MP5 with the M4, when I played the game for the first time I got confused and thought it would be as accurate as an actual rifle.

>>8458740
>>8458640
The MP5 with the M203 is cool in concept but the original model and sound are so fucking rough and harsh on your eyes and ears.

>>8454661
>Xash 3d
With which assets?

>>8454797
How's that poison?

Consider the following: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_9mm_SMG

>>8459681
La abominación armada...

>>8459641
Poison?

I only enable them for Blue Shift and OP4 as they were made by Gearbox so the HD models actually fit there since its their interpretation of what Half-Life is and I disable them for Half-Life 1 proper since they dont aesthetically make sense there.

>>8460178
Made a lot of sense for the purpose.
>DOE wants to have armed security for nuclear powerplants and nuclear material transports, because you never know
>only wants to hire people who have served in the US Army
>since they were soldiers previously, they should be well familiar with the M16/M4
>so how about a 9mm subgun which has the same manual of arms and handling as an M4
>even better, it uses many existing AR15 parts so it's not that much new tooling
>also lets just copy the magazines for the Uzi, since those worked well, that way we don't have to design an all new magazine by ourselves
Bit of a 'hack' of a design, and has an awkward appearance, but it actually works quite well. Colt never actually advertised these guns, however, as the M4 carbines were a lot more profitable for them, so any kind of government organization (American or foreign), which wanted one, had to know about it and ask for it specifically.

>>8460506
Presumably the exact same logic was behind the MP5 being a scaled down G3. But sometimes, some mad lads do it the other way around..

>>8460783
Similar enough, though the MP5 is straight up a G3 scaled down to a pistol cartridge proper, functioning the exact same way, with the Colt SMG more being kinda like a conversion kit to turn an AR15 5.56mm carbine into a 9mm blowback subgun.

The Sterling battle rifle is hilarious, it's still an open-bolt select-fire gun and all, like the original subgun. It would have been fun if they had developed it further, like at least make a full prototype with sights and a stock and all, just so it was possible to get a full feel for it, but I'm guessing it was realized fairly soon that it wasn't a great idea.