/vr/ - Retro Games

Kirby 64 started development shortly after Kirby’s Dreamland 3 was finished (97) which implies Kirby 64 had a long development cycle of 3 years and here is where things get ‘’strange’’. Before Kirby’s Dreamland 3, Kirby Super Star released in 1996, also for the SNES but before Super Star was even finished, Hal (developers of the Kirby Franchise) were already working on another Kirby game, this one being the cancelled Kirby Bowl/Air Ride for Nintendo 64 showcased for the first time in Space World 1995, so now we have Hal juggling 3 projects at a time which ultimately lead to cancelling one of them. [2/?]

>>8441647
Moving back to 97, while Hal says they started development of Kirby 64 in 97, they were also handling a lot of projects at the same time as well, Pokémon Stadium 0 (a japan exclusive game) Super Smash Bros and Pokémon Stadium 1 where all developed by Hal and released before Kirby 64, on top of that, Hal was also supposed to help with the development of the cancelled Mother 3 (I’m still seething about that to this day) So as we can see from all this, Hal had their hands very full and in my opinion all those projects had an impact of the final version of Kirby 64 [3/?]

>>8441652
From what I could research about Kirby 64, a lot of content was cut for the final release, for starters, the game was going to be much more connected to the previous entry, as we can see from this early image showcasing the animal friends from Kirby’s Dreamland 3 (as you can see the image features the numbers 981030 under Kirby 64, a possible release date? October 30th 1998?) before they were cut (appearing only as cameos while combining rock and cut in the final game) and this deleted song that is a remix of the animal buddies theme used in Kirby’s dreamland 3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y_7NnmghxQ&ab_channel=Laizorb
[4/?]

>>8441654
Now it’s not clear if the animal buddies were planned to be used in a similar way as in Kirby’s Dreamland 3 (changing the effect of each power up) and their elimination lead to the power combos of Kirby 64 or if they were meant to be used along already existing power combinations but I think the first option was what happened. [5/?]

>>8441657
Now Continuing with the cut content, it’s highly implied that the game was going to be co-op at some point, much like Super Star and Dreamland 3 were, but this featured had to be scrapped and was changed instead by the friend segments in the final game. This point particularly is one that makes me sour about Kirby 64, previous games are Co-op on the SNES but this one on the N64 (the console with 4 controller sockets) is not? What makes it even more frustrating is that Goemon’s Great Adventure, released by Konami in 1999, was also a 2.5D game released for the N64 that DID feature Co-op, so there was no excuse to not do it in Kirby 64. This was, in my opinion, another consequence of the troubled development and Hal handling too many projects at once [6/?]

>>8441646
Kirby games have somewhat of a tradition of being among the last and most technically impressive releases for Nintendo systems
>Kirby's Adventure for NES in 1993
>Super Star in 96/Dreamland 3 for SNES in 97
>Kirby 64 in 2000
>Return to Dreamland was supposed to come out on Gamecube around 2006/07
>Ended up moving to the Wii and became one of its end of life flagships

>>8441659
In the end we ended up with a game that to me is strange, not only from a visual standpoint (this game using the dreamland aesthetic in 3D makes it stand out because they were never used again after it) but the music is also quite unique to the series, having a bit of a ‘’slower’’ mood to it and of course, the power combination mechanic that has never been used again (except for a very limited variation in Kirby Squeak Squad) but the biggest thing for me is obviously this ‘’what if’’ scenario, in which the original vision for the game was actually accomplished. I don’t hate this game; I don’t love it either but I still enjoyed it. But what do YOU think about Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards? [7/7]

>>8441659
>previous games are Co-op on the SNES but this one on the N64 (the console with 4 controller sockets) is not?
Kirby Super Star has a proto-Smash Bros feel to it.
>off-screen HUD and markers for CP/2P
>Fighter ability combos
>Mirror ability defense shield
Kirby 64 probably would have played like a mix of Smash 64 and Super Star if Sakurai directed it.

Don't we love our schizo autists, /vr/? Pillars of the community

>>8441657
The real animal friends must've been cut extremely early, as the only other time they appear in concept art is a piece where Adeleine paints a copy of them to life for a gameplay section. I think they were initially planned to be used in similar capacity to KDL3 (hence the unused selection music), then were very likely replaced with the mixed ability idea, were briefly toyed with as gameplay segments before they put more focus on Kirby riding Dedede, and ultimately only made a cameo as the Cutter+Stone combo, which resulted in one Crystal Shard being extremely obtuse to get unless you knew about Rick's wall-climbing from the previous game.
I would love for an uncut 64DD build to get leaked one day. The game might've had better longevity if they shifted to GameCube disc rather than stripping it down to N64 cartridge.

>>8441646
Japanese gamers cared less about generation shifts than the Americans. Consoles usually have a longer "afterlife" there. Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 came out on Super Famicom in 1999. You would consider that insane, but Super Famicom had a much larger instal base than Nintendo 64 in Japan.

>>8441763
dumb move considering thracia 776 is the worst selling game in the franchise barely selling more than 150000 copies

>>8441780
less* than 150.000

>>8441763
> Super Famicom had a much larger instal base than Nintendo 64 in Japan
Unfortunately this does not work for old consoles when direct successor is already released. People who are eager to buy new games are also eager to buy new condoles. And people who stay on the console for whatever reason are less likely to buy anything.

>>8441716
The fact that Adeleine would've known to paint the Animal Friends confirms beyond a shadow of a doubt that she was supposed to be Ado from Dream Land 3, right? Honestly, my impression from reading the whole shabang is that keeping them separate characters requires so much pretzel-logic it isn't funny.

>>8441780
>>8441784
There was no money on N64 in Japan. Thracia was probably hurt more by launching on Nintendo Power kiosk service initially instead of proper cartridge release.

How about earth being a frozen wasteland

>>8441841
>There was no money on N64 in Japan.
it was difficult, sure but at least on the internet it says Kirby 64 sold 1 million of it's units in Japan. I still think not releasing it on the Super Famicom would had been better overall

>>8441863
Thracia wasn't really meant to be more than a side-project. Intelligent Systems was trying to make a Fire Emblem for N64, but Kaga lost his shit with the rest of IS and left, and the whole thing went under.

>>8441847
This'll probably be confirmed or denied in the upcoming game with the abandoned civilization setting, but Earth being a separate location light-years away from Kirby's homeworld was literally one of the first things established in the series' story, and was repeated a few times in early manuals. Plus ya gotta ask, if Shiver Star really is intended to be OUR Earth, what's it doing in a completely different solar system?

Has a Kirby game ever been released at the beginning or in the middle of a console’s lifespan? Excluding the Gameboy games.

>>8441901
Several games on non-/vr/ handhelds, Nightmare in Dream Land came out in 2002 on GBA.

>>8441901
Epic Jarn came in 2009 and star allies came out pretty early for the Switch

>>8441901
Dream Course, Air Ride, and Triple Deluxe were middle, and Canvas Curse and Squeak Squad were fairly early. Super Star Ultra was middle-ish. Had the 1st (probably Sakurai-directed) version of Kirby GCN been released, it'd have been early-to-mid range; if the retooled 2nd or 3rd version been released, it'd probably have been late.

>>8441646
I remember being utterly disappointed by Kirby 64, it felt like such a let down coming off of Kirby’s Super Star

>>8442070
that what people felt with dreamland 3 too

Only Kirby game I really like. Totally-not-Ramiel rising from the sand in the desert blew my mind.

>>8442070
Very true, even as a kid I noticed the drop off. It was especially sad because I never had a SNES and only got to play super star with my friend's console doing co op, so I was stuck with 64 and didn't get new games very often.

>>8441646
The SNES had a much bigger player base than the N64 in 1997. It will blow your mind to know that the follow up to Megaman 8 (Playstation, Saturn) was on the Super Nintendo.
In 2000, the N64 was Nintendo's only supported console. What else would they release a game for?

Companies have multiple projects running at once as part of their workflow and as a result are prioritized in different ways, Kirby 64 was put on the shelf for other projects which they felt were more important, and there are some factors we don't know, such as if it went over budget or had to scrap a lot of ideas that didn't work and start over, etc.. Same thing happened with Xenogears which went over time and over budget so they had to move staff to other games like Final Fantasy 8, so they rushed Xenogears to finish and ship out. Most team Ivalice games had the same issues.

>>8442215
But it sold like shit anyway, despite the bigger customer base on the SNES, why not just take the risk and make it for the newer machine? They need games to sell the system anyway, 2 birds with one stone. Late 90s Nintendo went full retard

>>8442215
>It will blow your mind to know that the follow up to Megaman 8 (Playstation, Saturn) was on the Super Nintendo.
Because Capcom took pity on the little kids who hadn't upgraded yet and decided to throw them a bone.

>>8441646
>Box says 4 players
>Only for the minigames

Combining abilities was fun.

>>8441661
its a fun game, odd one of the bunch(like the canvas game or yarn or those newer ones) but those are necessary too for a series to be good - of course I prefer traditional hit games like Super Star more but you gotta have variation

>>8441901
Star Allies

Is there a way to discard one ability in your combo after transforming so you can try other combinations without ditching both abilities? This is my only gripe with this game; otherwise it's fantastic.

>>8441693
>calling passionate gamers who make deep discussions about games "schizos"

you can go trip and die zoomie

>>8441646
Are you the Yoshi autists?

>>8441716
>The game might've had better longevity if they shifted to GameCube disc rather than stripping it down to N64 cartridge.
Or it would've killed the game entirely. If they'd ported to GCN, there's the risk of 1) Shimomura's disappearance ending the project like Sakurai leaving basically did to Kirby GCN, 2) Sakurai taking over and injecting anime elements/mandates (e.g. "no humans, Meta Knight only") that no one asked for like what happened with NiDL and cutting development time from Air Ride, or 3) Development getting outright merged with Kirby GCN. I think HAL made the right call to salvage the game as a cartridge title.
>I would love for an uncut 64DD build to get leaked one day.
This I agree with. I'm more interested in that than a Mother 3 build, which I always felt was a better fit on GBA.

>>8441979
ngl the third version always intrigued me the most. The cell-shaded graphics and ability charge-bar look wild. I miss when the mainline Kirby platformers were allowed to experiment with the gameplay and artstyle. I hope HAL one day just releases these games as "Kirby's Lost Trilogy" as part of the next big anniversary milestone celebration or something.

>>8445361
>Shimomura
Where did this guy disappear anyway?

>>8441661
Kirby 64 is my all time favorite game and I'm fine with it coming out as it did. It's a relaxing, atmospheric experience and is something I can always go back to.

Also you forgot there are elements of power mixing similar to Squeak Squad in Star Allies.

>>8441832
The whole seperate characters thing is utter bullshit and we have concrete proof of this with the manga concept art saying Ado's name is Adeleine and to draw her using the K64 design rather than the DL3 one. Not to mention all DL3 bosses had their name shortened due to text limitations.

I love Kirby lore but the whole Ado/Adeleine thing is fucking stupid and I wish they'd just say "of course they're the same person" at this point

>>8445713
At this point, with the leads on his name gone cold, I assuming that he used a pseudonym and we don't know his real name. He may have left HAL with Sakurai and could very well still be in the industry under a different name.
>>8446217
I'm pretty sure the reason they don't is either: A) to appease weird fanfic writers who thought Ado was supposed to be Adeleine's twin or boyfriend or both or B) because Kumazaki has a really dumb twist planned for Ado like being Adeleine's EX mode or self-caricature come to life.

Thanks for the thread, good read

>>8446210
>Kirby 64 is my all time favorite game
A man of taste. I can only imagine how based the rest of your favorite games are.

>>8441654
>(as you can see the image features the numbers 981030 under Kirby 64, a possible release date? October 30th 1998?)
Deepest lore

>>8441646
I liked it but only played the wii u virtual console version because in the N64 days I had a playstation. It was a fine distraction for a few hours and I got %100 in the end but it's not like it would have been a console seller.

>>8441661
>But what do YOU think about Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards?

I think Shiver Star is Earth

Weren't a lot of these cuts simply because of the DD's failure and having to slim the game down as a result?

>>8446387
Depends on what you think about Persona 3 and Touhou 8: Imperishable Night

>>8447457
I take back what I said

>>8442206
Same here
I was living alone at my 19 when this game went out
I sacrifice some delicious meals to buy it and it wasnt even merely close to super star
I had to sell it