/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8406958
dunno bro probably some shit in japanese

One facet of Nintendo philosophy with GameCube was to present it as exclusively gaming device. They probably believed that having regular size discs would inevitably lead for demands for media playback, which would dilute GameCube's "gamer" public image they craved so hard after losing it to PlayStation everywhere and Saturn in Japan.
It was a stupid logic, especially with Nintendo's hardware partner Panasonic releasing their Q console which accepted regular DVDs.

>>8407002
Nah, the actual reason is they wanted special discs so as an anti-piracy measure and because they didn't want to pay royalties

>>8407019
>anti-piracy measure and because they didn't want to pay royalties
Wii discs had both of these distinctions yet they were regular sized.

Limitations create better developers. The lack of storage space today is why we have bloated 100GB+ games today.

>>8407038
>What is learning from your mistakes

>>8406958
Nintendo hated Sony so god damn much that they'd rather have to deal with the tiny discs than have to pay a single cent of royalties to Sony

>>8407038
Okay, and? N64 also used carts because of the same anti-piracy reasoning along with being butthurt at Sony. That didn't mean they would never use discs in perpetuity.

>>8407038
You've gotta remember that the Dreamcast was a fucking piracy box and Nintendo, who didn't have much experience with discs, really didn't want to repeat that mistake.

If you haven't noticed, nintendo has been the gay and kiddy option since the snes

4th gen: kid-friendly, mother-approved console. Refuse to show blood in mortal kombat
5th gen: another kid-friendly machine with cartoon graphics that can't play CDs
6th gen: purple lunchbox that still can't play CDs or DVDs

I think Nintendo made the best choice they could. It would be totally cucked and beneath Nintendo to pay Sony royalties for every game sold.

>>8407127
>. It would be totally cucked and beneath Nintendo to pay Sony royalties for every game sold.

I'm not versed well enough in the history, but if that was the reason for it then yeah,

>Nintendo made the best choice they could

>>8407113
That's why Nintendo got Panasonic to develop their own discs for them, and Panasonic were a member of DVD Forum.

>>8407042
Yeah that's why all the good developers flocked to the consoles with less limitations while the Gamecube rotted.

>>8407186
Yep, they chose the path of cuckoldry

>>8407038
They're a little thicker tho.

>>8406958
It's not really a limitation though, because games can use multiple discs just like they for PS1. Not saying it's a clean solution, but it IS possible.

https://gamicus.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_GameCube_video_games_with_multiple_discs

I think it's pretty clear the Mini DVD was selected as a compromise between management that wanted to have a first line of defence against piracy on the one hand and the need for a cheaper medium with more storage capability on the other hand.

Personally I think ROM carts like the DS and Switch are the best option overall because they provide higher reliability. It's just that electronic storage wasn't cheap enough back when the Gamecube was being designed.

>>8406958
Its not that big of a limitation. For example Ico on ps2 is only 600 megs in size and if anything is bigger you could use multiple disks. Its not like all those multi disk games on ps1 were a huge problem. Most of the time the file sizes are bloated up with movies or excessively high quality voice lines. Also here's a fun one, Space Channel 5 Special Edition for ps2 comes with 2 disks. Each disk is only 1.2 gigs in size for some reason.

>>8407259
>Space Channel 5 Special Edition for ps2 comes with 2 disks. Each disk is only 1.2 gigs in size for some reason.
Because that's two separately released games which were bundled together in North America only because Sega could not risk losing any more money at the time.

>>8407215
Splitting a game across multiple discs works a lot better for linear games than nonlinear ones.

>>8407295
Nearly all games on the Gamecube (and PS2 for that matter) have a high degree of linearity.

I agree a lot of data would need to be duplicated across discs, but this is typically not the stuff that takes up the most space.

Things that take up space are cutscenes, music (unless it's MIDI), speech samples and -to a minor extent - detailed graphical stuff. This is the reason a game like Tales of Symphonia requires multiple discs: it has anime cutscenes. Same for Baten Kaitos.

>>8407313
The PS2 popularised the open world sandbox. In the case of GTA much of the game's filesize is in audio, and it'd really blow if parts of that soundtrack had to be cut or compressed.

>>8407019
>>8407113
I remember one of my friends had a mod chipped GameCube and he burned DVDs for it just fine, he just had to cut them small with scissors.

>>8407316
Yeah...ha ha... imagine if Vice City or San Andreas had tracks cut...

>>8407215
The problem with the multi-disc solution is that it only works decently for games that are more or less linear in their design, so there can be a set point to switch to the 2nd disc. Like MGS, REmake, RE4, and so on. But something like GTA would've been impossible. Also I seem to remember there being two-disc sports games on GC that would laughably require you to constantly swap the discs

That said, for MOST games of the time the space wasn't necessary.

>>8407427
>Also I seem to remember there being two-disc sports games on GC that would laughably require you to constantly swap the discs
This is too silly to be real.
>googles gamecube 2 disc games
>it was two golf games
Haha, no way!

>>8406958
Arguably Nintendo were never thinking after their 1-hit-wonder, the NES, and would be better off as a 3rd party company as their hardware has always been garbage.

>SNES
>let's put a shitty slow CPU in it that causes anything that's not an RPG to run like shit!
>N64
>let's use carts when everyone moved to CDs! oh yeah, and the worst controller design of its generation.
>GC
>let's use garbage mini-DVDs and reject online multiplayer! oh yeah, and the worst controller design of its generation.
>Wii
>here's the Gamecube again, but this time with a shitty peripheral that only appeals to non-gamers! oh yeah, and the shittiest online service of its generation.

>>8406974
fpbp

>>8407259
ico is 600mb because it came on a cd. there was a handful of ps2 games released on cd because the console could read both.

>>8407474
Imagine wasting all that time typing up complaints about the most successful and rich video game company of all time LMAO

>>8407628
>rich video game company
Microsoft?

>>8407594
In fact a lot of early 2000-2002 PS2 games came on CD. especially from minor publishers. Over time they became more confident with using extra disc space, leaving CD format for retro releases like Sega Ages 2500.

>>8407042
Storage is way cheaper these days

>>8407632
Microsoft makes more money in a single day with Azure than it has ever with Xbox, which has never turned a profit

>>8407842
>moving the goalposts

>>8407427
>>8407440
What in the actual fuck? Why would you need to swap discs in Tiger Woods?

>>8407645
The first time I saw a PS2 game on a CD, the PS4 was already out so I assumed it was a weird bootleg or something.

>>8406958
Nintendo cares about the players who need to download roms to mobile devices with limited space, good job Nintendo!

>>8408118
Imagine downloading GameCube games to your phone over GPRS from WAP websites.

>>8407360
i just left the console without the top cover and put a rubberband to press the tray sensor.

>>8407042
That doesn't matter on physical media with consoles though since whether it's a 700mb CD or a 50gb BD, it's still just a disc you're putting in your system. Size has only become a pain in the ass due to the reliance on digital downloads and installations. I agree with your overall sentiment but disc space is not a good example of this.

Really tops out at 1.35gb.

You'd think they would have gone with 2 layer discs. Oh well, system was still like magic.

You don't need more for the bing bing wahoo kiddieshit

>>8408313
Whats faster to read the whole Bible, or a short story? Fucking retard.

>>8408545
Could you... PLEASE go back to /v/? (never tried asking nicely before)

>>8408320
Fun fact: Animal Crossing takes about 40MB out of 1.35GB of available disc space

>>8407215
>It's just that electronic storage wasn't cheap enough back when the Gamecube was being designed.
and still isn't.
why do you think switch games avoid at all costs to ship in larger carts?
they even go to the extreme of not even having the full game inside, rendering the cartridge completely pointless.

>>8407042
The only limitation that your creator should've had was wearing a condom when conceiving you, because that post was retarded as fuck.

If limitations were so great, then why did Square, Konami, Capcom and all the other devs jumped ship to Sony when Nintendo decided to stick with cartridges on the N64? Nintendo is setting back devs. That's why their dev support has been so jank even still to this day 25 years later.

>>8408320
protip: trim your isos with nkit

>>8409241
And none of them took advantage of the hardware for anything worthwhile. Pretty much just good music. Fuck FMVs and everything else.

>>8407019

This doesn’t hold up to me because back in the early 2000s mini dvds weren’t unheard of. You could get blank ones to burn if you wanted and people did

The GameCube itself can even fit a full sized DVD with slight case mods or a 3rd party top cover. If that was Nintendo’s real concern they would have gone a little further in anti piracy than just using a slightly less common disc size


The n64 being cart only for anti piracy also sounds like BS to me. I put my money on it being for keeping the price of the initial base console low, and the fact that including a CD drive would mean either working with Sony, Phillips, JVC, or sanyo

Sega was already working with JVC and Sanyo for the lasers in the Saturn, Sony was obviously doing their own thing, and philips I’m sure Nintendo was not thrilled to go and work with either. Panasonic (who supplied parts for the GameCube) wouldn’t have really been an option yet

I’m sure coming out of the Nintendo play station/CDi situation Nintendo wasn’t jumping at the teeth to go partner with any more companies like that
Hence why when they designed an add on to the console it used a mainly in house created Zip disk like floppy drive instead of a CD drive

The reasons for n64 carts and mini discs being “because anti piracy” just sounds like them trying to appease investors

But I seriously don’t get why they went with the mini dvds

Im thinking maybe it’s genuinely a case of Nintendo just trying to be standoutish and quirky. Different for the sake of standing out so they could have their tiny cases and stuff (Which in America were normal DVD sized, but Nintendo was very Japan first back then, still are)

I saw some anon mention they think it was to keep the expectation of dvd playback out of the GameCube. That might be it actually
“We know people will want this feature but we don’t want to give it to them so we’ll gimp our system to detach it from that thing”

Seems like a Nintendo kinda thing

>>8409291
Another reason for not choosing the CD for the n64 is the loading times.
With the first cd players (SegaCD, PCengineCD, NeoGeo CD, CD-i) loading times were very long.
Sony are the first to use ram as a buffer to cut load times in half, what convinced Yamauchi to make the Snes-Play-Station.

What ended the Sony-Nintendo contract were the royalties. While Nintendo charged $ 14 on cartridge and CD games, Sony was $ 21 on all CDs, games, interactive-CDs, karaoke.
Sony saw itself as partners, Nintendo saw them as a simple supplier (like in the days of the Sony sound chip).

After that as you say, the other CD manufacturers were engaged elsewhere, Sega, SNK, 3DO etc ..

For the Zip, Nintendo wanted a bigger and cheaper medium than the cartridges. I'm asking why they didn't attempt this medium directly on the N64 instead of the cartridges.

https://youtu.be/4ITf4HncLp8

>>8409419

The n64 DD was expensive, including it in the base console would have bumped the systems price up probably a hundred or so dollars.

The DD is also actually pretty slow with loading, it came standard with the ram expansion though- and that’s typically used as a buffer to cut down on the very slow disc access times (slower reads than from CD on the ps1)

It however had the huge benefit of mass read write storage, which the ps1 and Saturn didn’t have (Saturn had a FDD but it was uncommonly used and still small)

Had the DD been successful and released when it was supposed to I think we would have seen a lot of very cool games take advantage of it. I think there would have been more PC like games on the n64

>>8406958

>>8406974
heh

>>8409291
gamecube doesn't use standard mini-dvds. Try popping them in a PC disc drive. You won't be able to rip them that way

>>8409779
Some old drives can.

>>8408053
no shame in being zoom

>>8407474
fuck no, I can see your arguments for pre wii but the wii and every console after is great. They're the only consoles that are actually interesting and fun anymore

>>8410257
Wii U sucked and Switch is just a tablet. I don't see how post-Yamauchi Nintendo is any better than they were back in the retro days.

>>8410118
I'm older than you

>>8407126
>If you haven't noticed, nintendo has been the gay and kiddy option since the snes
*Doom 64 has entered the chat*

>>8408571
You tell me.

>>8407038
Wii and Wii U discs were non-regular DVDs made by Panasonic so Nintendo didn't have to pay money to the DVD consortium/mafia

>>8410729
Actually Wii U discs are non-standard Bluray discs so they don't have to pay the Bluray consortium/mafia

>>8407042
Actually, no. Bloated games always existed. They took 3, 4, 6, 8 CDs, and people even considered that a sign of being technologically advanced. During the cartridge era, having a larger cartridge was a sign of being a true AAA. Now that storage space is actually limited by people's hardware is practically THE FIRST TIME EVER when the public wants smaller games rather than bigger.

Nintendo/Coomlectors hate this 1 trick

>>8410735
Keyed Ninty, fuck Sony

>>8406958
They made the discs smaller so that they would fit better in a child's hand.

The Gamecube is a console for children, remember this.

>>8409241
>That's why their dev support has been so jank even still to this day 25 years later.

Nintendo seems keen on buying exclusivity on random ass games these days.

>>8407427
If the PC installations for III and Vice City apply to the console versions, they could've easily fit on a minidisk with some minor trimming and compression. San Andreas would've been the real challenge, and realistically would've gotten ported to the Wii a few years down the line. Unless they were going to sequence every single song and compress all voices, SA on the GameCube would've been impossible without constant disk swapping.

>>8410432
If anything they are worse now, they actively hate their fans and are chasing trends that other publishers have dabbled with.

>>8409246
All the GC sos on Vimm are already nkit.

>>8406958
Because Nintendo were and are obsessed with being innovative and different even if it’s a detriment to themselves and inconvenient to customers.

>>8408048
The GameCube couldn’t handle the amount of holes in the game. IIRC one of the modes has you playing every course in a row and you have to change discs before that mode begins. I don’t think it makes you change it in the middle of the round though, thank god

>>8410432
switch is good for if you have friends
can take it anywhere and play split screen multiplayer

>>8407628
This would all be very damning if don't consider the wild success of the gameboy/gba/ds/3ds

>>8410783
Coomlectors play on one of their unboxed Qs, foorfag