/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8390108
I'm still of the belief that CRTs were phased out due to the fact that they could be repaired, and that goes against the idea of making all modern technology disposable. You can't make money off a third party repair, so why allow the plebs to have something that gives them a bit of freedom and possibly saves them money?

>>8390108
buy a HD crt and be free

>>8390117
No, it's moreso the fact that they were awful for recycling. With just the amount we have now, they're still a huge problem for landfills because of all the lead and shit that inevitably leaks into the ground. Countries stopped taking that e-waste, and regulations got upped to make sure we wouldn't be in even bigger shit.
I get what you mean by planned obsolescence, but CRTs were already on the way out.
>>8390108
At the point we're at now, proper upscalers help out a lot. The scanline issues only matter much for Sega or Sony consoles, plus the N64. Having a nice CRT is neat, and a lot cheaper in most cases, than the options for an LCD. That said, it doesn't matter too much nowadays, thankfully.

CRTs were a nightmare in terms of logistics, offices hated them, bulky, hard and expensive to ship, eye straining, noisy, bad geometry, blurry text so again offices hated them, the flat ones had a wire in the middle, were very reflective and hard to see unless in a full dark room, plus very difficult and expensive to make, LCDs are much cheaper to produce in comparison.
I always thought it was a tradeoff, convenience for quality, never liked LCDs, terrible colors specially early on, TN monitors were specially horrendous but so were VA and IPS, dreadful viewing angles, terrible dark colors, ghosting and trails, dead pixels, backlight bleed, motion clarity was the most shocking, watching movies on LCDs never felt real, it's like watching a cartoon.
I still think they should try and modernize them in some way but maybe it's just not possible otherwise we wouldn't be stuck with the bad tech that are LCDs which still today there's not a single panel that doesn't suffer from one of the myriad of flatpanel issues, even a LCD that costs over $5000 isn't a perfect display.

>>8390286
>very reflective
we got away from this for a while but now we're back to it with everything going touchscreen so they have glossy glass surfaces

>>8390108
The picture quality didn't get better until OLED
Things are getting better though
There's many strobing LCD monitors these days with the recent Viewsonic XG2431 in particular being excellent.

Displays are slowly improving.
With MicroLED in the horizon especially.
As soon as we get 8K and higher MicroLED with high nits we'll be able to emulate the CRT look perfectly.
But it will take a while.

Lag is not an inherent problem with any display technology.
Even LCDs can be CRT-tier lag as demonstrated by ZisWorks 480hz LCD kit. It's all about the electronics used.

Only thing which we might not be able to preserve is unmodified NES Zappers and other Lightguns which won't work on modern displays due to how modern displays scan(unless somebody in the future makes LCDs/OLEDs/MicroLEDs etc. that scan as predictably as CRTs).

>>8390117
Retard. You can repair modern displays just as easily as CRTs.

It had nothing to do with that at all.

LCDs an Plasmas were thin, light and could get huge which appealed to moviefags. They were also appealing to offices because they didn't take up as much space.
CRTs didn't have these advantages.

>>8390268
>At the point we're at now, proper upscalers help out a lot. The scanline issues only matter much for Sega or Sony consoles, plus the N64.
The hell are you on about? Scanline issues only matter on Sega/Sony/N64? You're not making any sense.

Upscalers blow. You don't want to upscale the games because they'll look like shit.
The primitive CRT shaders we get in some of these Upscaler devices are a good start though.
In the future we'll probably have built-in shaders on 8K TVs/Monitors and maybe even in Upscalers and such.
We'll have the option of emulating all sorts of CRTs accurately etc.
And of course we'll have perfect motion just like in CRT and even better(because of no phosphor trail bullshit). Better black levels thanks to OLED and MicroLED, no geometry problems, no convergence problems etc.

>>8390117
Are you fucking serious? Actual retard.

>>8390286
there was one flat planet tech called SED that was good but they dropped development of it because they couldn't produce them at low prices like LCDS.

lcd:
+100% superior in convenience and logistics
+can match widescreen motion picture format and large screen sizes easily
+no geometry warping
+still images have more clarity
-worse colors that have only narrowed the gap somewhat recently and significantly worse contrast
-worse motion clarity
The downsides aren't minor but you're a retard if you think the world somehow got jewed out of their natural display technology. text being more readable alone made it the obvious path forward.

>>8391001
I wish. Any monitor with more than the bare minimum feature set has a heavy matte coating that diffuses them to hell, literally not a single glossy model produced that isn't 60fps bargain bin tier. My only options for a decent looking panel are getting an oversized tv with bad input lag or shelling out for a 40in oled.

>>8391017
>muh 8k
>muh microled
You are the same retard who repeats these gimmick buzzwords over and over again....what the fuck does an 8k display have to do with playing games on my ps2

Is there a good lcd for Dreamcast vga?

>>8391094
Stupid dumbass nigger.
How do you think CRT Shaders work?
They're emulating the phosphor mask.
To properly display that mask you need about 8K resolution or higher.

You can then do the same thing even with original hardware since the shader is loaded on the TV.
Some upscaling devices such as the Retrotink 5X already have some crude but decent CRT shader implementation albeit at only 1080p.
Things will improve over time and you'll have 4K shaders on the OSSC or Retrotink or whatever and then after that you'll have 8K shaders.

MicroLED is an emissive display like CRT and OLED and it also has CRT-tier pixel response times.
It also has the brightness required to simulate CRT flicker(which is the reason why CRT look so smooth in motion while being so bright).
OLED can do BFI to improve motion but it's not bright enough to compensate for the loss in brightness.
It also has the brightness required to emulate a CRT's bloom without it looking fake.

A CRT's phosphor shines at 10K nits for a very brief period(phosphor decay) and the Electron Gun itself is 100K nits.
Much of that brightness get lost due to CRT's inefficient nature so we don't really need that much brightness for 60hz old games but we do need a huge amount of brightness.

To match the 1ms MPRT of a short persistence CRT at 60hz we need 1667 or so nits(depending on console refresh rate all of them have slightly different refresh rates)
To match it while using CRT shaders(which contributes to further brightness loss) you need more than that depending on the kind of shader you're using and how you configure it etc. etc.

While you're off being a pedestrian people are researching these things and have been doing it for years.
The tech is still years off however.

>>8390108
I have both, old decent but not too high res 15kHz CRT for 240p and a high end ultrawide for modern content.
Tool for the job.

CRTs are bulky, heavy, and difficult to find places for but the payoff ends up being worth it.

>>8391326
or small, cute and you can just stick one on top of your whatever and play your favorite /vr/'s. But you're damn right they are worth it any.

Fuck, going from CRTs to gaming on an LCD is really distorting too.

>>8391350
Someone here at CEO has a very small CRT but it's got Component video support, which is fantastic.

>>8390127
Is there a single HD CRT which properly displays 240p video? I don't think so.
They were all 480p/1080i and mangled anything not at that resolution. Also, manufacturers wanted a "flat panel" asthetic and used crazy deflection angles to get a"thin" set, resulting in shitty picture quality.
Everyone wants the 34" top of the line Wega. I suppose if you can get one for free which doesn't have a million hours on the tube it might be worth playing with.

>>8391017
>Plasmas were thin, light
Spoken by someone who has obviously never seen a plasma set in person and tried to move on. They are anything but light.
My first flat-panel TV purchase was a VA-panel set. I hated the thing, but plasma was out of the question since the wife couldn't help lift it and I wasn't going to try to wall-mount it myself.

>>8391381
But, does it fit in a pocket?

>>8391350
>worth it any.
any case*

>>8391396
HD TVs are great for component or early HDMI consoles like Xbox, GC, PS2 and PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, etc. But for 240p you definitely want a SD TV.

>>8390117
It's moreso to do with the fact that CRTs are physically harder and more expensive to produce, and are heavy and bulky, meaning it costs far more to ship/store them.
But your overall point is correct, that CRTs were phased out because it was easier to make money with flat-panels. Benefits to the end-user like being able to make larger screens and lower power draw are just incidental.

I really feel like we were robbed, especially in the mid-2000s when LCDs started becoming more commonplace. Like my family computer around that time came with a ~17" LCD and of course it has your typical problems with viewing angles and motion clarity, etc. But nobody thought twice about the downsides of that vs an old-style CRT monitor because "this is the new thing, new thing good".
Nowadays with better LCD screens with high resolutions and framerates it's not an issue I'm bothered by, but for a good decade or so we were all getting memed into objectively worse display tech before it finally got good enough, and even then still isn't better when it comes to things like motion clarity.

>>8391001
True, we're actually regressing on a lot of this shit. IT seems like EVERY laptop is made with a glossy screen, and so are many newer TVs. The things turn into fucking mirrors and when it's a scene that's supposed to be dark, I just end up barely being able to see what's going on because all I can see instead is my reflection. It's especially unforgivable with laptops/phones because they're portable and supposed to be designed to be viewed in a variety of indoor/outdoor locations

>>8391115
Any 4:3 or 16:10 should work provided they have VGA or you use an adapter that works.

>>8390108
>we really got jewed with LCDs didn't we?
Nope. CRTs are mostly shit and have very few cases to exist anymore. (mostly for lightgun games.... which even those are replaced by sinden)

>>8391094
Your ignorance is laughable. Go educated yourself idiot.

>>8391401
So a 55 inch plasma weighing 150..... is heavy? When at the time even a 27 inch CRT could be 150??? You hearing yourself?

>>8391350
How do you emulate with a Crt?

>>8391728
You plug your monitor into your computer and load an emulator. That’s a VGA monitor.

>>8391708
Obviously you've never played a game on a CRT and LCD side by side, it makes the LCD look terrible.

My Sinden order is taking ages to arrive but since it's a tracking camera I highly doubt it will be as good as a light gun.

>>8391728
Basically what >>8391743 said. Go check one of the CRT threads on the board, more info there.

>>8391743
>That’s a VGA monitor.
It's a 15kHz monitor, more like a TV than a VGA monitor.
You can still run it from RGB+Cs or RGB+HV though.

LCD is a dead end flawed tech, they'll never fix viewing angles, IPS glow, latency, lag, motion clarity, color reproduction, black levels... all on a single display panel, you either get one but not the other, want good colors? That requires quite a lot of processing which adds latency or lag. Want CRT level response? Then you need a TN and you get 6bit color plus FRC (dithering) and horrible viewing angles. MicroLED is nothing but promisses, haven't seen anything concrete last time I've checked instead we have gimmicks like folding panels for smartphones.

>>8391819
>it makes the LCD look terrible
only thing that doesn't look like crap on the crt is pixel art. Live action and modern 3d look like noisy, warped shit t. poorfag that used a crt through the 7th gen.

>>8391934
Thread/10

>>8391467
if you want top of the line tv displays to be covered in a disgusting matte coating you're an idiot.

>>8391956
I want screens to be viewable without needing to sit in the darkness

>>8391956
Semi-matte is great, certainly much better than glossy. Matte can be too grainy but there can be a middle-ground.

>>8391945
Obviously, this is a retro board remember?

>>8391408
Cute onahole

>>8392131
Kek

>>8391821
>It's a 15kHz monitor
I wish they were more common these days. Finding something like a commodore 1084 is not easy nor inexpensive

>>8392235
They're also no that great, just get a PVM if you're that crazy about them, you can get top of the line from the UK for just 1500€.

>>8392279
PVMs are way more expensive then 15khz computer monitors though. I get the impression that they’re better than consumer TV sets

>>8392235
Where are you located? Finding the 1084 and CM8833 and their friends isn't hard imo, just that be ready to pay nearly a 100€ for a good unit.

>>8392279
>you can get top of the line from the UK for just 1500€.
Pretty insane, decent 14" and 20" PVMs here are a 200€ - 400€.

>>8392332
>Where are you located?
I’m in Canada. I had come reallyyyy close to getting two 1084s from my old high school by some miracle that hadn’t been thrown out yet, but by the time that I came to picked them up they had gone away with them.

>>8392279
>They're also no that great
Accepts everything from composite, Y/C / S-video, digital RGB and analog RGB with either composite or seperate sync makes them pretty versatile.

Also 600 TVL with .42mm pitch at 14", but with a slot mask instead of a aperture grille, gives a great picture for the job but still melts together the picture without having obvious thick scan lines or rough edges like AG, I'd say that's even a bonus over a PVM or similar AG tube monitor for /vr/.
Plus build in stereo speakers and a small footprint, what's not to love.

>>8392345
Shit that sucks. I know someone in Canada and seen the market situation, at least they do surface there, so not all hope is lost. Good luck.

>>8392348
Looks like shit thought.

>>8392348
I’m still glad though since I was still able to pick up their amiga 2500 which they had used as a video production setup with the video toaster

>>8392356
I didn't take that picture to show off the tube though, it's a quick snap in shit lighting.
This tube is in top life, picture taken with default contrast and brightness.

>>8392361
That is a nice catch, glad you got it instead of it ending up who knows where.

>>8392370
>That is a nice catch
Yes I remember being so ecstatic picking it up. This was before I was able to drive so I ended up walking home with it in the cold winter and it was definitely not pleasant on the arms lmfao

>>8392379
It was worth the suffering. Don't ever think otherwise.

>>8392379
The teacher who let me keep it was really nice and understanding too. The other tech teacher was completely confused as to why I wanted to keep “junk” and but the other one completely understood the appeal lol

>>8392383
Yes it was worth every bit of the suffering considering the prices today

>>8390108
They can't react on CRTs either

>>8390117
People repair modern displays all the time

>>8391160
>nits nits nits
>being that kid who always had lice

...but then OLED TV exist now, deep black like CRT, 30 times less motion blur than LCD and very close to CRT on this regard, it's fast and doesn't add lag, it's the best modern technology to make retro gamers happy, have any of you compared retro games on OLED and CRT ?

>>8392487
It’s good for the fgc which is good

>>8390108
>we really got jewed with LCDs didn't we?
Yes anon! Exactly! Now be a good goy.. guy and go check if there's any nice PVM to buy close by, remember good thing are worth their money! You don't want to be a idiot who plays games and enjoys them no matter the monitor, right? Imagine what the rest of the board with think about you! Now go and buy a PVM!

>>8390108
I don't have a problem retro gaming on my OLED. Looks a lot better than CRT.

>>8392506
it's sad but that's basically what reddit has turned this "hobby" into

>>8390108
I play on a plasma and I can't detect any input lag. I doubt it would feel much different on a CRT

>>8392508
not in motion lol

>>8392506
It's harder to enjoy games on a inferior monitor.

>>8392548
The difference is really hard to tell with the naked eye, you'd need specialised equipment and testing scenario to even document it noticeably
Modern OLED is pretty damn amazing, it just sucks because it has a short life

>>8392487
>deep black like CRT
no crt I've seen ever had blacks like oled, even if better than lcd it was still a noisy luminous gray when you had blacks straight on. perfect black just wasn't something you really expected from a tv.

Contrast was miles better on CRTs than on LCDs which isn't just about the black levels but all those colors at the end of the color ramp. Also LCDs have trouble reproducing the faint light grays at the start of the ramp.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php

LCDs often also have color banding if they don't do dithering, LCD is such a lousy tech.

>>8392626
LCDs suck, there's a reason everyone is talking about OLEDs

>>8392570
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4xgLUdQhKA

seems pretty simple to me, and this is through a recorded video

>>8392771
>OLED from 2016
Nice try retard

>>8392771
Kek

>>8392798
>monitor from 2000 is better than OLED from 2016
CRT rules.

>>8392820
Too bad it isn't 2000 or 2016 anymore.

>>8392825
Yeah, 2000 was pretty cool.

>>8392827
Eh, I'd say 2001 was better, lots more of nice game and hardware releases compared to 2000, at least here.

>>8392834
The three greatest games of all time were released in 2000: Deus Ex, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2, and Perfect Dark.

>>8392837
>N64 user
Eww. I'm out, bye.

I'm about to be a tard and am going to try to negotiate for an overpriced 14" CRT that needs to be shipped to me. Ever since I saw these CRTs that are the best tech-wise a consumer CRT can get yet come in a small 14" package I'm determined to get one myself.

>>8393001
Make sure they package it really well and use a reputable delivery company.

>>8390108
You're blatantly lying about your age and I know this due to your antisemitic remark. Fuck off.
>>>/v/
>>>/pol/
>>>/tv/
>>>/ck/

amazing how you can have an entire thread full of people who obviously know jack shit about monitor tech in the past 15 years and haven't even bothered to use anything besides some $60 Walmart piece of shit, but still decide to vomit their useless thoughts all over.

>>8392851
Couldn't go 12 rounds. I win.

>>8392803
show us your comparison bro

>>8391396
BVM A&D Series and PVM L5s can do up to 1080p and properly display 240p while completely lag-free.
INB4:
>They only do up to 1080i
They do 1080p at 24fps

>>8390108
>but the games run so much more smoothly they feel almost entirely different
never noticed any difference going from a CRT to other display techs

>>8393163
Those are BVMs and PVMs though, not HDTVs.

>>8393170
Yeah, it's invisible to the human eye just like 30fps vs 60fps

>>8391017
>Retard. You can repair modern displays just as easily as CRTs.
you have never even opened a children's toy in your life if you believe that
flat panels are not as serviceable unless you replace a whole board in hopes of fixing the issue

>>8393629
That's some dumb shit, keep saying that

>>8393163
>They do 1080p at 24fps
progressive segmented frame isnt useful for games and most media

>>8393629
the only reason they aren't is because the service manuals and information are not widely available, so its not a fault of the technology for one not being more repairable than the other.

>>8393649
also because the boards themselves are full of small SMD components and ICs, this makes servicing considerably harder, to the point that it's faster and cheaper to replace the whole board instead of diagnosing the issue
you can already guess whats gonna be the future of these flat panels

>>8393670
That's bullshit, get the right tools and it's no problem

>>8393670
Board level repair is completely possible. SMD isn't even that hard, it's only when you get to BGA is when it actually requires a good amount of practice and skill and the initial outlay for a rework station and an iron really isn't that much compared to other trades.

It's just that TV manufactures are being jews by withholding the schematics from everyone.

>>8393670
Spoken like a true boomer

>>8393670
>full of small SMD components and ICs,
this is boomer tier explanation

>>8391396
>Is there a single HD CRT which properly displays 240p video?
There are plenty of them but good luck tracking them down because they're likely not sought-after models.

>>8391934
>LCD is a dead end flawed tech
Nah
>IPS glow
Dual Layer LCD or Blue-Phase Mode(can be as low as 10 microsecond response time) VA LCD with 10K MiniLED dimming zones or 100K MicroLED dimming zones(latter method produces less bloom than CRT)
>latency, lag,
Redundant mentioning the same thing twice
Anyways ZisWorks 480hz LCD kit has CRT-tier lag
>motion clarity
Already been solved in many Strobing LCD Monitors out there
Additionally LCD VR Headsets such as Oculus Quest 2 and Valve Index have smoother motion than CRT(apart from oscilloscopes and medical ones) with 0.3ms MPRT
>color reproduction
Uh LCDs destroy CRTs when it comes to color
They have much wider color gamuts
>black levels
Dual Layer LCD
Also 10K MiniLED dimming zones in the near future.

>>8393895
Pixel response latency and input lag are not the same thing.

>>8392570
>The difference is really hard to tell with the naked eye
You need to go the doctor ASAP

>>8392798
OLEDs haven't improved much since then
The best you have on OLED TVs is 4ms MPRT on LG CX at 70 nits with BFI

OLED VR headsets can reach 2ms but they don't go below that since black levels become too noisy hence why LCD VR is kicking its ass

>>8392834
>I'd say 2001 was better
Until September 11

>>8393948
>pixel response latency
Nobody calls it that.
It's called Pixel Response time(or in the case of LCDs G2G Response Time since it's Monochrome).

>LED lag
Do you honestly even notice it?
t. own a CRT and an IPS.

I actually feel like I need to be whipped for paying this much, holy shit.

How can you charge this fucking much for tech that most people just throw away?

>>8390117
Its actually because having a 40 inch CRT that weighed 400 pounds was less desirable than even larger flat screens that weighed 1/10 as much. CRTs had a hard upper size limit due to their size and weight. I have an 83 inch OLED now, its great.

>>8394085
You admitted to being willing to pay and then in the same post ask how they get away with charging so much?

>>8394202
More like I'm confused how it got to this point. At one point people were willing to let these go for basically nothing as long as someone was willing to cough up the cash to have them sent to them (shipping them is always the hangup with these).

It's ridiculous where we're at now where the base cost is so inflated yet I don't think the perception towards them has changed at all, just the notion that they're in high demand among retro gamers. People will still just dump them without a second thought if they can't sell them off fast enough but they also won't reduce the price to rid themselves of them either (so basically it's sell high or toss out, nothing in between).

I will say I have seen local deals on CRTs that are fine (like $10 or $20) but only in the surrounding area. If you want a specific type of CRT (like I was seeking out) then sourcing online is probably the only way to ride and then you're paying outlandish prices.

>>8394190
To be honest the move to giant screens on the home has always been a dumb one imo. Unless you have a lot of space/huge living room.

It's ironic that I used to watch way more TV back when we had small ass CRTs while now I barely watch it except just leave it on in the background.
Now there's fuck all to watch on TV.

>>8393895
> Already been solved in many Strobing LCD
LCD strobbing is a shitty approximation of how a CRT works. There is no a single flat panel monitor ever constructed that works correctly as seen in the attached gif, and there probably never will be.

>>8394321
You are literally retarded.
Rolling Scan OLED works that way.
Scanning Backlight LCDs work that way too(although they're rare and hard to build).
This method will be commonplace when it comes to MicroLEDs in the future.

Anyways the method doesn't matter(although CRT/Rolling Scan is better because it doesn't add any input lag).
LCDs already have motion that is significantly better than CRTs on VR headsets like Oculus Quest 2 and Valve Index.
They also don't suffer from phosphor trails which is a significant flaw that CRT suffer from.

Strobed LCD Monitors on the other hand are close but not quite there due to strobe crosstalk issues(which those VR headsets don't have at all).

>>8394367
There are no rolling scan OLEDs except for a few tiny low resolution displays.
> phosphor trails
phosphor trails are not a big issue, for most scenes they are not visible.

>>8394370
>There are no rolling scan OLEDs except for a few tiny low resolution displays.
Sony PVM Trimaster is a low res display? lol
Anyways the point is that the CRT scanning method is reproducible with other technology. The bottleneck is the brightness.
CRT Electron Gun is stupidly bright and so are the phosphors when they're hit(although a lot of that brightness gets lost inside the tube due to how inefficient CRTs are).


>phosphor trails are not a big issue
Speak for yourself
And it's not like they're consistent since it varies from tube to tube

I wonder, will these ever become accessible meme displays for enthusiasts in time as well?

>>8394426
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTfvwOGu4EI&t=13s
That is not proper rolling scan, that's just garbage.
The only OLEDs that can do real rolling scan are passive matrix displays, which are small low resolution.

>>8394441
You are a retarded nigger who doesn't understand anything what he's talking about.
It literally is a rolling scan display. It does around 7.5ms MPRT because it's designed to have good enough brightness for photo editing.
OLEDs don't have enough brightness so they had to reach a happy medium.

Passive Matrix OLEDs would need to be driven with ungodly current since they're microseconds of persistence for acceptable brightness. That doesn't work, which is why they're relegated to small microdisplays.
This would be like a CRT without phosphors, it would never get bright enough and they would be ungodly flickery at normal brightness levels and refresh rates(say 100 nits/60hz).

>>8394437
No since they're not especially great for gaming.

>>8394454
What about for movies or other passive media?

>>8394458
They'd be excellent for that(except for future HDR content) if you're okay with a small screen size.
They're 4K(4096x2160) too so they'd be good for movies.

For gaming they have 8ms of lag(half-frame of 60hz) and they're only 60hz so yeah.
With the 7.5ms MPRT you get about 120ish hz equivalent motion which isn't too bad but even LG's OLED TVs have Native 120hz now(although of course the TVs aren't as good at other things like color accuracy, them using WRGB instead of RGB etc.)

>>8394450
If OLED cannot be made to work exactly like a CRT then the technology is dead-end trash. The only flat panel I will ever accept is one that works identically to the CRT. That means direct single pass line scanning with nanosecond input lag. Each pixel should appear directly on the screen instantly, the only electronics in the display should be row and column muxes connected directly to the vga rgb lines, or builtin ramdac.

Also on the subject of persistence, if you really wanted to you could simulate phosphor decay placing capacitors on each LED, so that brightness is maintained for a short time after the line was scanned.

consumer crts were always fucking junk
pic related is using RGB btw

>>8394472

>>8394465
Even then, I could still conceive of a scenario where a newer tech like MicroLED or something BTFOs OLED and Sony moves to the newer tech, whereupon years later broadcasting studios and such begin upgrading to the new shit and gradually dumping the old Trimasters into the market. A certain niche of movie and AV buffs might spring for them then at reasonable prices. Then redditors will catch a whiff of this, obtain a few, then start making threads about CHECK OUT MY LE EPIC CHEAP BRAODCAST QUALITY 4K OLED, and the market will be descended upon by hordes of redditors with more money than sense, and prices will begin to skyrocket. The enthusiasts will take to their forums and the appropriate 4chonz boards to bitch and moan forevermore.

Like pottery.

>>8394473

>>8394475
another smaller crt for comparison

>>8394469
>If OLED cannot be made to work exactly like a CRT then the technology is dead-end trash.
OLED is another Plasma imo unless R&D significantly improves it.
MicroLED has the brightness required.

>nanosecond input lag
Never a thing even on CRT
They had nanosecond pixel response times(MicroLED goes below that) which is a different thing
Anyways ZisWorks LCD kit has CRT-tier microsecond input lag and that's an LCD
It's all down to electronics being used

>Each pixel should appear directly on the screen instantly
That doesn't even happen on CRT nor does it happen on any display tech period
Phosphor decay is a thing with CRTs
They too hold pixels some longer than others depending on the type of phosphors used,
For the low framerates/refresh rates that we have they basically have to.

With say a refresh rate like 1000hz you can even emulate the CRT temporally on software even down to the defects if you want to.
You're way overrating CRTs


>the only electronics in the display should be row and column muxes connected directly to the vga rgb lines, or builtin ramdac.
VGA is straight obsolete trash
Only poorfags ever used that over BNC even back in the day

Digital is much superior because you get a much better signal since it's only converted to analog when it reaches the display thereby preserving the quality of the original digital signal
And technically straight digital is less lag if unbuffered.

>Also on the subject of persistence, if you really wanted to you could simulate phosphor decay placing capacitors on each LED, so that brightness is maintained for a short time after the line was scanned.
The trade-off is more blur
The mathematics of blur vs flicker are pretty simple
That's basically how rolling scan on OLED or the adjustable strobe duty cycle on strobed LCD monitors work
You literally have the option to adjust the persistence to your preference on strobed LCD monitors a thing which you couldn't do with CRT phosphors for obvious logistical problems

>>8394472
>>8394473
Looking good and soulful

>>8394474
>Even then, I could still conceive of a scenario where a newer tech like MicroLED or something BTFOs OLED and Sony moves to the newer tech, whereupon years later broadcasting studios and such begin upgrading to the new shit and gradually dumping the old Trimasters into the market.
Many broadcasting studios already dumped those OLEDs in favor of Dual Layer LCDs and other mastering LCD Monitors because they can't get bright enough.
Also maybe it's partly because of near-black handling issues too.

>>8394512
>That doesn't even happen on CRT
Yes it does.
The very instant a pixel enters a CRT from the vga connector it appears on the screen instantly.

> 1000hz you can even emulate the CRT
Won't pass the light-gun test. The ultimate test of a display is if a light-gun will work on it. And the only possible way to pass the light-gun test is passive matrix direct scan with beam thickness emulation. (enable multiple rows simultaneously, to emulate lower resolution scan line thickness)

>>8394512
Different here, have you considered that the trails, particularly on the bright whites, are probably the reason CRTs are so comfortable to look at with mere 85hz? Rolling scan also plays a part but I believe the trails are the final secret to CRTs. The brighter the pixel the longer it sticks around. The clarity loss negligible and doesn't affect most colors, only the most painful ones.
Strobed 144hz LCDs feel like looking at a 70hz CRT, which makes my eyes burn after some hours.

>>8394529
>The very instant a pixel enters a CRT from the vga connector it appears on the screen instantly.
No it doesn't. That's physically impossible.
It still takes like a few nanoseconds.
The same thing happens with modern displays btw.
They immediately display but they're continually illuminated for the full frametime whereas a CRT is only illuminated very briefly,

>>8394529
>Won't pass the light-gun test. The ultimate test of a display is if a light-gun will work on it.
No.
Lightgun is a separate issue altogether.
Lightgun won't work due to how modern display wok.
They update in rows whereas CRTs update more predictably. That said you could manufacture displays that work like CRTs but big manufacturers will probably not do it(unless somebody caters to retrofags in the future or maybe through some crowdfunding effort).

See a more detailed explanation in pic related for why unmodified lightguns won't work.
Bottom line is Lightguns aren't the benchmark you think they are.

>>8393994
I do. Modern ones aren't as bad as they used to be, especially with high-refresh becoming more common, but the pixel response time is still lacking. Something as simple as a scrolling background of a 2D platformer like Sonic still looks noticeably better on a CRT because it remains 100% razor sharp even as it scrolls quickly. That and I'm still annoyed at simple things on flat panels like how text because illegible just from moving a window around or scrolling down a webpage

>>8394532
>Different here, have you considered that the trails, particularly on the bright whites, are probably the reason CRTs are so comfortable to look at with mere 85hz?
Phosphor trails and bright whites being less smooth are 2 different things.
Phosphor trails are an artifact much like the dampening wires of an aperture grille being visible and much like a CRT looking like washed out crap if not in a pitch dark room.

You can certainly emulate that kind of behavior, especially with OLED and MicroLED which can do it at the pixel level.


>but I believe the trails are the final secret to CRTs.
Lol
>The brighter the pixel the longer it sticks around. The clarity loss negligible and doesn't affect most colors, only the most painful ones.
Again 2 different things. Trails aren't related to the bright whites being on longer phenomena.

The great thing about modern displays is that you'll be able to emulate that effect even better thanks to per pixel-level emission on OLED and choose if you want to turn that on and off.


>Strobed 144hz LCDs feel like looking at a 70hz CRT, which makes my eyes burn after some hours.
It's global squarewave on/off scan as opposed to gaussian beam which is more like a gentle fade.

Pros of squarewave strobing method
>Better motion quality overall

Cons
>More input lag due to having to flash all pixels at once
>More brightness loss
>Harsher flicker

>>8394557
>Phosphor trails and bright whites being less smooth are 2 different things.
>Trails aren't related to the bright whites being on longer phenomena.
Explain, isn't the higher persistence directly what affects motion clarity?

>>8394548
>the pixel response time is still lacking
OLEDs pixel response time is very fast
It has to do with MPRT/Persistence Eye-Tracking based blur caused by Sample and Hold.
Plenty of strobing LCD monitors solve this already.
The recent XG2431 can strobe from 59hz to 240hz so you can play Sonic at native Mega Drive refresh rate 59.something hertz while strobing though you have to create a mode for it.
Although the flickering will be noticeably worse than on CRT.

>That and I'm still annoyed at simple things on flat panels like how text because illegible just from moving a window around or scrolling down a webpage
Again strobing fixes this.
Or you can get a 360hz monitor if you don't want any flicker

>>8394543
> It still takes like a few nanoseconds
Well of course its not literally 0 time, but in practical terms it is zero, we are talking delays of less than a pixel. In comparison to buffering of multiple lines or even frames, its certainly can be considered zero.

I know how a light-gun works and why a flat panel does not work with them. But I will never give my seal of approval to any panel that does not overcome this.

On the subject of simulating CRTs. It would be so trivially easy. Just add a single resistor to this circuit to discharge the capacitor. Instant impulse display. OLED panels I think are probably more than bright enough, they are blinding, I run my phone at less than 5% brightness and its still brighter than my CRT.

>>8394573
Strobing makes the image too dark

>>8394579
>OLED panels I think are probably more than bright enough
You need to dump a ludicrous amount of power in to the pixel in the 0.5ms to keep even CRT-tier brightness, it'll burn out instantly. The 1500 nits some oleds in some scenarios can do would leave you with 45 nits with such a short duty cycle.

>>8394565
The thing with phosphor trails is that they're specifically noticeable next to blacks.
You have no fine tune control with CRT so the only option you have to minimize the effect is to calibrate for SRGB with elevated black levels.
If you calibrate for pitch pure black they're a lot more noticeable.
It's not pleasing to look at really.

>>8394579
The buffering happens so fast that there's no way you can physically feel the difference.

>I know how a light-gun works and why a flat panel does not work with them. But I will never give my seal of approval to any panel that does not overcome this.
Get over yourself retard. You probably won't be able to notice a difference with a good enough replica.

>>8394579
>OLED panels I think are probably more than bright enough
You don't seem to understand how this works do you?
OLEDs are definitely not bright enough.

>I run my phone at less than 5% brightness and its still brighter than my CRT.
A 2010 LCD Monitor is brighter too but at 16.67ms frametimes ffs.

A CRT's phosphor shines at 10000 nits for a very brief period(1 to 2ms phosphor decay times) and the electron gun itself is in the realm of 100 thousands nits.
Of course a bunch of that brightness gets lost inside the vacuum but OLED doesn't even come close.

>>8394475
This looks like I'd expect the game to look, really good.

>>8394479
Way too sharp.

>>8394472
>>8394473
Your problem is the games you're trying to play are too new for the monitor. Tool for the job.

>>8394609
>Get over yourself retard. You probably won't be able to notice a difference with a good enough replica.
are you fucking serious? sensor-based lightguns suck just like the wiimote

>>8392487
>it's fast and doesn't add lag
So hows that light gun stuff working out for ya?

>>8394909
I don't get your point, light gun stuff has worked for years already even on shitty LCD TVs? Why would you need a OLED for that

>>8394472
works on my machine

>>8390108
I loved watching movies on TV, in pitch dark. Sure, the screen was small, but black was always black and grey was grey. A decade of having to deal with grey blacks ruined this for movie. I learned not to give a shit about how video games look. Sure, the pixels might look slightly better but it's not worth obsessing over anymore.

That's where my journey with picture quality ended. I simply don't give a shit anymore so long as it looks tolerable which all retro does with filters to my eye.

>>8393010
this, i just bought a crt online for $145 (which pissed me off because usually people practically pay you to take them if you can find them locally, which I couldn't), and they shipped it in a thin cardboard box with literally no packing material, no FRAGILE on the box, and when it arrived I have the ups guy on camera dropping it from his hip to the pavement. Thing was broken as fuck, one less crt in the world now thanks to retardation. Has a huge hole in the back and when I tried the power button it fucking coughed and popped like a car in an old cartoon, then died. This comes after I won an ebay auction for a really nice trinitron, paid the shipping cost, and never ever got a shipping confirmation or replies from the seller. I got my money back on both, but still don't have a fucking crt.

>>8395260
>I got my money back on both, but still don't have a fucking crt.
And you had to deal with the dead monitor. Great.

>>8395260
>$145
You're not trying hard enough, even on eBay you can get them for less.

>>8395286
yeah, i'm not driving to another state to pick up a tv. your cursory search that turned up the same hundreds of local pickup listings i already sifted through sure showed me, though.
>>8395268
its sitting on my dresser mocking me. i may try to take it in for repair somewhere someday if such a thing exists. seems wrong to throw it away without at least looking. for now, believe it or not i have another coming from ebay on tuesday that's a better model than the last one. fingers crossed.

>>8390108
have u tried hd pppplasma?

>>8395286
>shitty third party tvs
>probably no component inputs
>dvd/vcr combo tvs
not exactly a great selection

>>8395035
that is one very comfy picture, anon

>>8395035
lol you're trying so hard

>>8395260
>Thing was broken as fuck
Literally your fault for having a CRT shipped. Everyone knows to not do that. There's a new story every day about a CRT being killed from shipping. You're today's story. Good job being a retard and having another CRT lost.

>>8395381
yeah definitely not possible to place packing material in the box with the tv, i agree. what was that anon thinking? didn't he know the seller would definitely put a fragile tv in an umarked box with zero protection and not give it a second thought?

>>8395035
Looks great. Thanks for posting, comfy pic.

My family threw away most of our crt’s, a few of which were trinitrons. At least we did keep one 27” trinitron with s video.

>>8394917
Are you retarded or just retarded?

I got two nice consumer sets for free, both less than 10 minute drive away, all I did was check Craigslist every day for a month. I just checked now out of curiosity and there's 4 free CRTs, granted only one of them is less than 30 minutes drive away, but it sure beats paying hundreds for old junkers.

>>8395536
>didn't he know the seller would definitely put a fragile tv in an umarked box with zero protection and not give it a second thought?
Yes. It literally always happens.

>>8396378
Didn't happen to me either of the times I bought one. What's up your ass, aspie?

>>8390108
After moving a bunch fuck heavy TVs. They looked good but Im a weak ass manlet and I dont want to lift that shit anymore

>>8396383
Lucky you. You took a risk and it worked out. Just saying that trusting Ebay sellers is retarded and there's about a thousand stories online of smashed crts from shipping.

>>8396410
>Hurr it literally always happens
>actually it doesn't, but-
aspie

>>8396670
Shit you got me. You can't read hyperbole. Keep contributing to the attitude that is further destroying our finite supply of CRTs and driving the price up.

>>8396738
will do, champ.

>>8390117
that's why I got 5 of them

>>8396738
So if I can't find a crt in my area, I should drive to another state, pay some asshole boomer $80 for a tv he claims "works fine" and bring it back myself instead of buying one online from a reputable seller?

I took the CRT pill and I cant go back. Is it possible to hook up ethier an old pc or tv monitor to a modern computer graphics card or motherboard?

>>8396761
I accept your concession.

>>8396996
um, clearly you can't read hyperbole, because in reality i made no such concession

>>8394306
>Unless you have a lot of space/huge living room
Not trying to start a flame war here, but I’m American. My living room is larger than European and Japanese apartments. I love my giant TV, wish it was bigger. Maybe you could live with a 17 inch CRT but that small a screen means sitting with your face a foot away. Big TV is good because i can be far away, and my home is a castle compared to non-american dwellings

>>8394306
>>8397145
You don't need a huge room for a big TV. My tiny European room is 2.5 x 3.5 meters. I'm sitting roughly 2m from my 55" OLED and I often feel that I could use at least a 65" here. It's much better when I sit closer, but I do that only for FPS and other games that require me to focus, like Ace Combat or something. I just lay back for everything else, because it's more comfortable.
Honestly I'd have bought a bigger one, but it wouldn't fit (or I'd have to awkwardly move it left a bit), considering that my current setup is at the absolute limit of what I can do in this room. And I still need to think of something to better position my speakers.

>>8396973
Should be able to just hook up to a CRT monitor using VGA.

For connecting to a TV you need a VGA to SCART/Composite converter which converts the signal.

>>8395361
it's OK to admit you're not good at photography, keep practicing and you'll get better

>>8396973
Yes, but it depends on what graphics card you have and you might need additional equipment.
For example, I use my old GPU, an HD 7850, in a PC hooked up to a standard def monitor. It's old enough that it still has analogue output, and AMD cards are also much better about this than Nvidia's. So either using xrandr in linux or CRT_emudriver in windows, I can just set my graphics card to output 240p RGB(S) and hook it up to a PVM. Or without a PVM, piping the RGBS signal into a transcoder to get component and hooking it up to a TV that way. And of course if you're using a PC CRT monitor then VGA is much simpler as well.

>>8396973
Yes, check the CRT thread on the board for more info.

>>8397392
Not really, all you need is a VGA output, either a GPU or DP to VGA dongle and a cable that does VGA to whatever you're using, like RGB BNC or SCART, also that joins safely the sync signals together.

>>8397926
Doesn't really matter on the graphics card. Either you have onboard VGA or you have a DisplayPort connector to use a DP to VGA adapter.
CRT_emudriver or related isn't really needed, you can just add the specific modes manually with any tool that lets you edit them, like CRU. Both for Nvidia and AMD.

Also you don't need component for TV if you have RGB SCART.

>>8395336
>>8395561
Thanks.
>>8395361
>>8397449
It was a cellphone photo taken for a /v/ thread last month about the GTA remasters. It could be replicated pretty easily.

Got some sticker residue on my CRT screen. Any tips on removing it safely?

>>8397971
Would something like this be sufficient for connecting from my computer's VGA port?
https://www.arcadexpress.com/en/arcadevga/457-cable-arcade-vga-scart-usb-5v-12v-con-audio.html

I was under the impression you needed a video card that produces a 15khz signal or a converter box.

>>8398285
also, how will this get you 240p resolution?

>>8397971
>Either you have onboard VGA or you have a DisplayPort connector to use a DP to VGA adapter.
That being an external DAC device. Hence when I said you would need additional equipment if you don't have a GPU with analogue out

>Also you don't need component for TV if you have RGB SCART.
obviously I'm talking about american TVs that don't have RGB, seeing as I already directly mentioned RGB.

>>8398285
Should work fine, even though it's a little overkill, since from PC you can already configure polarity, etc. All you basically need is a cable with this pinout: >>8385158
If you can switch to RGB manually (remote or button) then you don't need the 5V and 12V parts, that's just so the TV auto switches to the signal. Technically if you have the skill you can put your own cable together for less than 10 bucks.

>>8398314
Windows or Linux? I guess Windows since most Linux folk probably knows how to tackle the problem.
Under Windows you could use any of the 15kHz programs like CRT_emudriver to add the needed modes, or you can just use CRU.

Example pic. If you don't want to use a super resolution, you can divide the numbers on the left with 8, you'll get 320x240 resolution, no reason to change them ones on the right. There's also many sites that list modes for NTSC, PAL, EDTV, etc.

>>8398315
Of course, didn't mean to invalidate you, just adding extra info.

>>8398423
Hmm, those programs seem limited to AMD though and I have an Nvidia, though there seem to be some options for that too.

Found an old CRT at work, still powers on but no remote and it wont swap channels with the buttons. Thinking of taking it home.

>>8398453
I've heard people say that using CRU or Nvidia custom resolution in Nvidia control panel has worked for them for later VGA Nvidia GPUs.
I'm using a 20€ DP to VGA adapter myself with a Nvidia RTX card and that works fine with just CRU, that's where the above picture was from, so I can't comment from personal experience about onboard VGA on Nvidia.

>>8398463
Use it to hook up your imaginary Amiga 4,000

>>8398476
This is with a dongle?

>>8398542
Yeah, DeLOCK 62967 to be precise. The driver sees it as a VGA port though, unlike with HDMI adapters.

if anyone is in the Buffalo area there's an fv310 FOR FREE

Does anyone know a silent crt? I am young and suffer from tinitus, got a crt, loved the picture but the noise would enflame my tinnitus and make it impossible for me to sleep, I could hear the fucking buzzing noise from the crt in my head when trying to sleep. Complete agony.
Is it true 100hz crts are silent?

>>8400994
Get a VGA CRT.
Yes 100Hz CRTs are silent too but have higher latency.

>>8400994
If you're unable to sleep because you're hearing a buzzing noise in your head while you're trying to sleep then the problem is in your head. You're either too retarded to power down the TV when you want to sleep or you're literally insane and hearing shit in your head that's not there.

>>8395035
is that a fox konata

>>8390268
>No, it's moreso the fact that they were awful for recycling.

That's the thing, though.

The moment CRT TV's reached their maximum practical size, they started getting phased out.

If you bought one of the last CRT TV's to be made, and aren't interested in smart TV features... There's a good chance that TV will be serving you for 40+ years, because you have a decent screen already, and it's repairable.

>>8401338
ntab do you know what tinnitus is?

>>8399843
Gotta say, thinking about it but it be a 5hr drive

today i emulated bugs and taz time busters ps1 on my switch with pcsxrearmed on my brother's 4k oled tv, with NO filters whatsoever (i have never used a filter and never will) and it actually looked pretty good

>>8401352
Yeah, I bought it on YAJ for $15 around 2 years ago. It still works flawlessly.

>>8390117
With the crash of the CRT industry, it would be conspiracy-tier to attribute due to anything except market forces.

You do not understand the amount of wasted money that got washed away with dwindling of CRT production.

>>8394475
game?

>>8394909
>>8394917

Light guns work with OLED TV's marketed as low latency, just not every OLED screen. They wouldn't work on a Switch for example.

>>8394917
This, I'd expect people on /vr/ to know that

>>8402012
Cotton 2: Magical Night Dreams

Morrigan on crt

>>8403258
Why does it look so blurry?

>>8401415
Not that anon but with tinnitus, the buzz is there permanently, regardless of the TV

>>8403328
Not him but looks like he made the mistake of turning sharpness up

>>8403331
Is that the halo like effect he’s got there too?

>>8403331
I didn't change anything from when I found it in the street, don't have the remote. But the picture looks very good, I took the pic from the 360 version of darkstalkers, maybe I had a filter on.
Here's another pic same TV

>>8403351
Your right, didn't notice that before.
Must be only in this game I'll check later

>>8403413
That still looks blurry anon
What connection are you using?

>>8403423
Composite or S-video, via scart but I believe it's composite due to color bleeding

>>8403430
Well that might be why, I have component with a comp2rgb transcoder

>>8403439
Im using a cheap Hdmi to scart thing, I'm looking for an original RGB scart cable for my 360, the TV supports RGB on scart 2.
It looks pretty decent still, especially from a little further away

>>8403473
don't use hdmi converters, specially ones that are made for 15khz, they are all universally crap

>>8403473
Like I said, just get comp2rgb converter, much easier to find 360 component cables
Plus you can hook up wii, GC and PS2 to it easily

>>8403495
Wii U component is comfy and I have the cable
How much does this adapter cost?

>>8403495
For that price just buy a overpriced 360 component cable

>>8403505
This. For the price you can get Wii, GC, PS2 and a 360 modern component cable remakes.

>>8403510
and you're not stuck with composite

>>8403505
>overpriced 360 component cable
they're cheap though

>>8403518
That's the point, you can even buy several overpriced ones for the price of the comp2rgb

>>8403520
component itself obviously doesn't work on his setup, and official RGB SCART cables on 360 are expensive as fuck

>>8403529
>you can literally buy a good quality 360 RGB SCART cable for 10 euros
>still tries to market the 100 euro composite adapter
lel

>>8403534
>100 euro
>composite
k

>>8403534
Im not spending 100$ for an adapter for a free TV, I could get a 21' Pc crt for that money

>>8403534
>good quality 360 RGB SCART cable for 10 euros
kek, you do that then

>>8403539
not great, just good enough for most people

>>8403538
I think that's anons point, just buy a cheaper cable instead of buying a expensive adapter.
You can get a 21" PC CRT for free, don't get scalped.

>>8403542
enjoy the noise in picture and blaring buzz in the audio then

>>8403547
depends on the cable, plenty of cheap cable with good shielding exist
literally costs 5 bucks to make a cable if you mass produce it and putting it together takes 15 minutes, that's 5 bucks for 5 minutes of work

that's also why you can get better cables from independent small manufacturers, instead of big retro stores that milk 500% profit

>>8403551
>5 minutes of work
15*

Well here it (>>8393001) is, running a 360 on Component.

It was packed really well so props to the guy.

Also overpriced or no, I do have to say the color really pops on this. It might even be more vibrant than my big CRT.

>>8404154
Cute!

>>8390117
Dumbass

>>8390108
Good strobing, but strobing is only perfect when the framerate is stable and match the refresh. Remember how jerky og DOOM or 30fps games looked like? Adaptive sync + strobing have the potential to fix this, I just hope that one day a company do it right. The rest I don't care, I like sharp pixels on lcd, I used to emulate on vga monitors at x4-x8 the native resolution of nes and snes games.

>>8404154
FYI Your blocking the 360s fan

>>8404208
Yeah, I know. This is a temporary set up until I can come up with a good solution to hook my HD consoles to the TV in the living room (which will ultimately include a PS3 and a Wii U as well as two external HDDs requiring power and the Wii U's GamePad charge cradle, meaning I need a lot of outlets).

>>8404208 #
Yeah, I know. This is a temporary setup until I can come up with a good solution to hook my HD consoles to the TV in the living room (which will ultimately include a PS3 and a Wii U as well as two external HDDs requiring power and the Wii U's GamePad charge cradle, meaning I need a lot of outlets). The 360 is only out there in the first place so I can use the HD-DVD player and the XB1 was so I could load up Amazon Video, which just lost support for the 360 as of the first of November.

>>8404208
Yeah, I know. This is a temporary setup until I can come up with a good solution to hook my HD consoles to the TV in the living room (which will ultimately include a PS3 and a Wii U as well as two external HDDs requiring power and the Wii U's GamePad charge cradle, meaning I need a lot of outlets). The 360 is only out there in the first place so I can use the HD-DVD player and the XB1 was so I could load up Amazon Video, which just lost support for the 360 as of the first of November (which I ultimately never used in the living room anyway).

>>8401415
I do. Anon doesn't have that. It's a physical problem, whereas anons problem is clearly mental.

>>8404254
No you see he has the tinnitus that can only be alleviated by a TV being on whilst he sleeps. Literally nothing else works but having a TV on and since he can't turn off the CRT, they are agonizing. You know, THAT tinnitus.

>>8404269
That's actually not what I meant, I know it sounds insane but I have:
A normal level of tinnitus: Can only really hear it in a quiet room or while trying 2 sleep, I use a fan succesfully to cover this up
Crt induced "piercing tone" tinnitus: When I started using the crt for the day the noise wouldn't bother me while I was playing BUT the noise was stuck in my head like tinnitus when trying to sleep. The fan wouldn't fucking block it out, nothing would. It's like a different level of tinitus, got no sleep at all, agonising. Went away with 2 days no use of the crt. Tried again and the same thing happened.

>>8391396
just dont get a thin one retard, also a tau is just as good as a wega. Dont use it for 240p, its fantastic for 480p and 1080i which gcn/xbox/ps2 supported for the most part, even dreamcast if you get a vga to component

>>8404154
dat HD-DVD drive

I still have mine, too.

I have this XBR200 that I'm trying to decide if it's worth lugging out of my folks basement and over to my house. I'd also recap it just for good measure. Got a few questions, first off it won't sync with SNES, I know SNES has touchy sync but I seem to recall a service menu adjustment would fix this. Does anyone know what menu option that could be?

Also, the bigger issue is. The entire set seems slightly out or focus. Hard to show up on pictures but it's just a touch blurry. I've never messed with the focus on a CRT before, is that something that's easy to adjust? I think for the most part the geometry is good, little convergence issues in the top right but that seems super common on bigger CRTs for some reason.

>>8406879
Here is a in game shot, super hard to tell in photos but the picture is for sure blurry

>>8405589
I have two because I thought my first one died.

But then I bought a new laser and now it works too.

>>8406979
What exactly do you use the HD-DVD player for?

>>8390108
DUSTY ASS FUCK

>>8408128
That Ultimate Matrix Collection in the background. I bought it specifically to use with the HD-DVD player (up until now it's just been a neat accessory I picked up at an enthusiast shop for $5).

>>8396876
Yea because buying one from a reputable seller clearly worked out for you the first time.

>>8390117
>could be repaired
>casually touch some small little nub on the board by accident
>kills self and blows up half of house
also in my experience LEDs are actually pretty endurable? like they straight up don't need to be repaired

>>8408564
>also in my experience LEDs are actually pretty endurable? like they straight up don't need to be repaired
Yeah, there's nothing to repair in LED TVs. You just have to replace the backlight once in a few years because the LEDs start to shit themselves after a few years and you get darker spots on the screen.

>>8408564
>LEDs
do you mean LCD's?
I don't imagine OLED's are easy to repair

>>8390108
When I started getting back into retro games I plugged in an old CRT and sure enough, games suddenly looked like what I remembered them, instead of washed out and pixelated.

>>8403413
yeah, your sharpness is too high. See how there's those white ringing artefacts around borders on both that pic and on morrigan?
Rule of thumb is you want sharpness all the way down, since all it is is an artificial filter adding fake sharpness. It doesn't actually make anything clearer.

>>8404752
I think that your problem is more on the mental side.

>>8391017
The blur reduction on my benq ex2510 isn't quite as smooth as crt but it's good enough for me to put my tube in the closet in most cases.

>>8392626
bro, crts crush colors on the extremes and have less than half the static contrast of ips monitors.

>>8411525
doesn't matter for /vr/ content anyways, even if it was true

So how do I go on about forcing my 480i-via-component CRT to output 240p with GSM 0.23 on OPL properly?

Is this the official CRT thread or is it the other one?

>>8412967
It's as good as it gets, speak anon

Considering how much CRTs, especially Trinitrons and PVMs have gone up in value these past few years, do you think that it'll be economically viable to remanufacture high quality CRTs in the near future?

>>8413462
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQD6NDKHxzM

>>8413462
No. I would love to, but it's time to let that idea go, there won't be good quality CRT mass production in our lifetime, or probably ever.
>inb4 um akshully this 3rd world shithole still makes fisher price quality CRTs so ur wrong lol

>>8413476
It's a niche item I'll admit, but if people are willing to pay $1-2k for a used PVM, I'd wager they'd be willing to pay the same for a new one. I still think the idea has merit, especially 5-10 years from now.

Question for PS1lads.
Composite or Scart with dithering removal patches?

>>8413670
>removing dithering
why even play at all

>>8413678
I don't know. I thought some anons preferred it. I haven't really played around with it yet, but it is an option so someone wanted it.

>>8413462
They are literally pennies or even free, stop enabling scalpers.

>>8413462
you can still find consumer trinitrons all over the place for free from boomers giving them away to free up space.

As to your question, no, no one will ever manufacture CRTs ever again, period. They're expensive to produce, expensive to transport, expensive to store, and there's only a very tiny niche of old game enthusiasts who even want them. And even ignoring all that, the parts are no longer made, the manufacturing processes no longer occur. This isn't like typical electronics where everything is more or less off-the-shelf components that anyone can put together. You'd need to start up entirely new production lines from scratch. So on top of all the issues I already mentioned, you'd need someone to do a massive initial investment just to put up brand new factories to start assembly line processes that haven't been in place in like 15 years.

It's NEVER going to happen. At most, later on when even consumer TVs start to become rare, you'll have people collecting sets and doing tube swaps and replacements, frankensteining TVs to keep alive the last few remaining CRTs.

>>8413682
personally i think it's part of what gives ps1 its unique look. it adds a kind of mock colour depth and smoothes out the edges

>>8413953
https://dotronix.com/our-work/dnr-series/

>>8413917
Stop saying BS, they were never free, on the side of the road they're usually picked up in minutes since there's people on the look out for anything of value being dumped, it rains too and often people cut the wire and scratch it so no one tries to repair.

Who wants to watch me shoot big ropes on my CRT?

>>8414290
Aren't these just new old stock, and insanely expensive either way?
Nobody wants to deal with crt waste

>>8414351
What's her name?

The highest opportunity for CRTs are estate sales. Old people leaving behind their old tech.

That's where my big Trinitron came from.

>>8414325
I'm literally going on marketplatz right now and there's free Sony Trinitron TVs. What now?

>>8413984
Does it still look good if you're using RGB you think?

>>8414487
Tanaqueesha

>>8414325
>it rains too
CRTs work after rain just let it dry.

>>8414325
5000 hours on Facebook marketplace.

>>8414564
>Europe
Maybe in Europe but not in the US

>>8414635
That's the same model as my big set.

going to get a late model 30" flatscreen consumer trinitron with component and s video delivered to my house for $25, he says it's in great shape but we'll see

>>8414604
I've never tried it but id imagine it would look better with dithering than without no matter the display, but that's my personal preference. i always had dithering on when i used to emulate ps1 on an lcd monitor and it looked good to me. you could always try both options and see what you prefer

I have about eight CRT TVs in my house and half of them weigh twice as much as me
No matter how many pro-CRT threads I see on here I will never not want to take a hammer to all of my old screens.
CRTs are a shitty bulky disgusting format and I'm glad they're not a thing anymore.

>>8414683
Kek, how can someone lack so much creativity for even simple bait.

I recently picked up a CRT for nostalgiagaming, but I fucked up and got a Trinitron flatscreen thinking it would be superior. Now I’ve got warped corners with chromatic aberration and too-sharp image with scanlines. It feels like a CRT-filter, I should have just gotten a cheap JVC or something…

>>8414971
Read up on the service menu. You might be able to mitigate the chromatic aberration issues. Maybe even the scanlines, too, if you're willing to fuck with it enough.

>>8415051
I’ve spent a long time in the service menu, and it is better than before, but looking at white-on-black grids, the edges are still pretty wonky and the lines aren’t evenly spaced. It’s possible some of the magnets around the electron gun have lost their tape and are misaligned, but I’ve never fucked with the internals of a CRT before so I’m not keen to open it up.
It’s GENERALLY not a real issue besides triggering my autism, but in smooth-scrolling scenes, the image looks like it has ripples.

I didn’t see anything about adjusting for scanlines, either. Apparently some models can adjust it, though you can’t save it in NVRAM, but not my model. Just seems to be a permanent byproduct of the aperture grille everyone apparently loves.

>>8415068
Maybe do the reverse of what's stated here?

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=67124

Seems like you gotta mess with the internals for it, though.

I just received an IBM C190 in the mail but the retarded boomer packaged it wrong and a lot of the plastic frame is cracked and broken and when I plug it in it makes clicking sounds and won't turn on. I don't see any way to even open the case because there aren't any screws or anything. What can I do?

>>8416982
Why do people make this mistake? Don't ship CRTs, 90% of the time it ends bad, even if not in total destruction.
If you do, at least tell them HOW to pack it, they don't give a shit, then ask for a picture of the packaging before it's closed.

You at least double pack CRTs. Bubble wrap the CRT, putt it in the first box, then that box put in a bigger box but with white foam spacers.

>>8417071
I told him to double box it and to fill in the gaps with cardboard which he did. I also told him to ship it with the screen facing down which he did not do, resulting in the swivel thing at the bottom completely shattering and tons of pieces of plastic somehow finding their way inside the case. I can hear a lot of rattling when I move it around. I'm not sure if this is what caused it to stop functioning and since I can't open it I can't see how to repair it.

>>8390108
My parents still have that TV. It broke maybe two times and it was repaired. Of course this is back when TV repair shops were possible and people bothered to get theirs repaired. Anyways, that repair was probably 10 years ago and the TV works great. Great audio quality even now despite no cleaning. Sony really knows how to make good products.

is this thing actually that good? I've read that it's "just" like the B&O MX 6000
I can get it for a few bucks but god damn does the stand look like ass

>>8417654
that stand is soul, quit your bitching and get it

>>8417654
that's an av9000 it's literally 100x better than an mx6000, their tv's past that point fixed the famously shit geometry of the mx series prior to the mx4200 and the mx8000. If that's available for a few bucks go get it holy shit, keep in mind the thing with bang olufsen tv's is you can't control the tv without the remote, though if thats like 5$ and a remote is about 50$ online, still worth it if it works.

>>8391017
What an embarrassing post

>>8418970
it has the remote with it. everything works, including the rotation, curtains and VHS player.

and yes I will pick it up today. I still don't understand why it's so much cheaper and less sought after than the mx8000 though, if it's that much better?

>>8419121
People don't really care about it.
It's not memed like PVMs.

I often see all of the models for sale for pennies or even free.

>>8419127
yeah they are basically given away here too(in germany).
I get the appreciation for PVM's but I won't bother paying 50x more for something that's not that much better.

what would you say are other B&O CRT models to look out for? what's the best model? also any other underrated brands?

>>8419191
They are mostly Philips shadow mask, so I'd say they are even better for /vr/ than PVMs.

>>8419121
mx8000 is a bit more common and in a easier formfactor, though if you meant 8000 in the original post and not 6000, the av9000 and mx8000 are meant to be on par. I'd say the later sets aren't really sought because only a few are in the know about b&o to begin with and far less about how the later ones (excluding the avant and the beo3 due to 100hz) are the best ones, beocentre 1,av5, mx4200/8000, av9000 and so on are the ones to look out for, the mx4000/6000/7000 is what everyone talks about but they've always got horrible geometry issues which can be fixed to an extent but its inherent to the design that they all have some form of horizontal geometry issues. The mx4200/8000 have usually great geometry and have a panasonic tube inside, not personally had a av9000 but its the beginning of that evolution and shares I think the same internals as the av5, which is great. I think in a few years time a lot of euros will realise what they've been passing up and start looking out for these sets.

>>8419191
>yeah they are basically given away here too(in germany).
That's probably the market with most of them too

>>8419328
Honestly anywhere they pop up for practically nothing even where I am in Scotland, the issue is if the person selling it has done the thing where they put the remote on ebay since beo4 remotes are worth like £70 and then put the tv up for free. Usually rich old people who bought it new keep it in a side room or summer home and its time to get rid of it but they're too weak to take it to the rubbish dump.

>>8391326
I'm perfectly happy with gaming on a 14 inch crt but I wouldn't tolerate using a 14 lcd for console gaming. My 14 and 21 inch crt are much lighter than my 55 inch lcd.

>>8414635
I haven't seen free crt's for a few years, they are not common everywhere except for the 14 inch computer monitor that was covered in mud. I see a pretty large number of lcd's being dumped, even big ones.

>>8419336
Most people luckily don't know or don't care to get rid of the remote separately, they are glad someone else comes and picks it up without them having to trouble themselves with it.
I've picked up several high end CRTs, both 15 and 31 kHz where the people even know about the price, but they wanted to get it rid quick without the fuzz. Specially if you're on pension.
Nobody gives a shit about 300 or 400€ if you get 10x every month anyways and have a beefy saving account, like mostly in those well off countries, specially people who had the money to buy the high end TVs and CRTs 20-30 years ago.

>>8392470
lmaoo

>>8419345
Yeah pretty much, old guy I got an mx8000 off had it in the corner of a study full of oak furniture and a really expensive carpet. Even had the manual in it's plastic binder still, really lucky he had that binder because it had the pin code written on it since he decided to activate the fucking pincode system.

>>8419324
beovision said that it was based on the mx6000 although I've read someone on ebay say it performs like the mx8000, so I wasn't sure who to trust

the mx8000 has an amazing design I must say. I hope one pops up near me.

I will post here or in a future thread on how the AV9000 performs when I've picked it up. seems like it's a great device and I'm amazed people aren't that into it. also, since I find it lacks some test, I might bother to give a bit more conclusive tests for retrogaming here. not sure how to do that though, so if anyone is interested and has info, just let me know

>>8419328
certainly is. you can finde a new B&O CRT every other week it seems. and since mostly rich people had them, they are in great condition too.

>>8390108
>games designed for CRTs look way better on them rather than LCDs.
Shocker.

>>8419338
>I haven't seen free crt's for a few years
OK. That's different then "Stop saying BS, they were never free," which is what that post was replying to.

>>8419338
Seen 2 just talking a regular walk around the neighborhood fairly recently. Didn't pick up either because I have two already and they were composite only.