/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8369027
It is more powerful stock, but much like the SNES, the NES heavily utilized cartridge addon chips.

yeah it is. the nes had better games obviously, but as hardware goes the ms is superior. check out phantasy star

I think that happens because people new to the console just try "iconic" games like Alex Kidd, or the early arcade ports like Fantasy Zone and Shinobi, with later titles like Wonder Boy 3 (which is still "just" an 1989) the difference is already extremely apparent. The later the releases the more noticeable it is, like the Sonic games, GA Warrior or Shinobi World. Games like Master of Darkness and Power Strike II could even pass as early Genesis games.

>>8369027
I don't think so, it just had a bigger color palette.

>>8369027
R-Type on the master system was fun

>>8369050

>>8369050
Games like R-type and Double Dragon had to be licensed to Sega as Nintendo locked in Japanese developers to only making games on the NES.
>>8369027
Sega also removed the Yamaha synth on western version severely gimping the sound.

The Z80 was to begin with, or once again, a very common chip like the 68k. Almost every 8-bit arcade hardware used it before moving on to move powerful 6809 or 68k. Sega just didn't have the developers or interest that Nintendo had.

>>8369050
>R-Type on the master system was fun
It was, and still is.

>>8369036
>nes had better games obviously
Obviously? Are you sure about that?

It can't flip sprites which is a pretty unfortunate limitation.

>>8369068
I never liked how SMS games looked. The console is capable of better, but it seems like the developers just decided to vomit colors on the screen, Amiga dev style. NES isn't capable of much so developers had to be very cautious with what colors they used, and how to use them.

>>8369068
Would rather play Athena

I feel like Nintendo had better first parties (and maybe some third parties) than Sega at the time, everything the master system did the genesis did better meanwhile the snes didn't do somethings (Mario for example) better than the nes

>>8369075
The so called best looking NES games like Kirby and Gimmick! look awful compared to Sonic. Heres the very first screenshot that comes up when you search for Master System Sonic. Without cherry picking you are not finding anything on NES that looks better.

Outside of Nintendo and Sega themselves, NES had more noteworthy developers making games for it. Imagine Konami bringing its a-game to the MS instead.

>>8369092
There's no "feeling". They were locked into only making games on the NES. Even early Genesis games like Ghouls and Strider had to be licensed and reprogrammed by Sega.

https://youtu.be/XWwgY2CVKTE?t=73
https://youtu.be/BE-rFtBnvjY?t=86
https://youtu.be/6NeBeYoH2CU?t=57
https://youtu.be/WhwD9aU4rhg
https://youtu.be/X3J1YOSHq1g?t=332
https://youtu.be/8QDVV-75C10?t=78
https://youtu.be/IUgkNBiIYNE?t=76

The Sega GameGear is also a portable master System at its core. But one difference that it has, is its larger colour pallete of 9064 colours or something. The Master System only has a pallete of 64 colours.

GG Shinobi makes nice use of the GG pallete: https://youtu.be/NuKsHfXqbAU?t=406
Samurai Showdown:
https://youtu.be/97v14F_7RxQ?t=95
Mortal Kombat II:
https://youtu.be/67tnHzcKyOM?t=186
Mortal Kombat II (SMS):
https://youtu.be/SrJb8cxWz-I?t=475

large screen resolution for the SMS game, but nice colours for the GG.

Master sytem>megadrive

>>8369128
Dreamcast > sega system > genesis > shiturn

https://youtu.be/9SjAFpvifZA?t=717
https://youtu.be/fJmsywfSCrI?t=62
https://youtu.be/hHby7-Kah7w?t=440
https://youtu.be/MNMOB4LOAb0?t=45
https://youtu.be/1AIyt-tBMmQ?t=273

>>8369107
>The Sega GameGear is also a portable master System at its core. But one difference that it has, is its larger colour pallete

The Sega master System didn't really leave much of a dent in the western market. I am pretty sure Sega of America officially discontinued it in 1991 or 1992? The Game Gear took its place in the west. The console was still selling pretty well in other parts of the world, but it ended up getting a lot of Game Gear cross ports, and Genesis style demakes.

>>8369105
>There's no "feeling". They were locked into only making games on the NES. Even early Genesis games like Ghouls and Strider had to be licensed and reprogrammed by Sega.

In the western market, Nintendo had a console exclusivity clause, which meant that third parties couldn't publish on other competing consoles like the Master System. Sega did pick up a few third parties, like EA, who never signed any contracts with Nintendo. It wasn't until 1991-1992 when Nintendo had to change their contracts is when devs could sign up as Sega third parties.

>>8369027
No. Only tards looking for likes and upvotes for their hot takes would compare two very different systems and call one """more powerful""". In reality they both have their strengths and weaknesses and at the end of the day it's the quality and quantity of games that determines which systems succeed.

>>8369170
Master System was more popular in my country than NES and I'm not a 3rd worlder.

>>8369226
sorry but it's no contest, NES has a few unique tricks and better sound but there are just so many things 16-color tilemaps can do that simply CANNOT be done with the NES's 4-color tilemaps. entire art styles just aren't possible on NES, SMS can produce much more modern-looking games.

>>8369230
>>>8369170 (You)
>Master System was more popular in my country than NES and I'm not a 3rd worlder.

I'm from Canada, and I only knew like a few people with Master System's. One being a cousin of mine with Phantasy Star. He had a model with Hang-On as the built-in game. I knew another person who had the 3D shutter glasses. Those were actually kind of cool. Someone left a Master System with a big box of games at my place for 6 months. It was a Master System II with Alex Kidd in Miracle World and 30 games. I got pretty good use out of it, until the guy wanted his stuff back. I also had a GameGear. The NES trounced the SMS in sales. Once the Genesis really took off with Sonic 1, Sega just axed the Master System, and focused on the Game Gear.
Nintendo had the market on lockdown in the 8-bit years.

>>8369027
>The library just feels so primitive despite the superior hardware.
Every third party developer wanted to jump on NES bandwagon, as a result, NES had more games, but also more SHITTY games.

>>8369027
NES graphics are like halfway between C64 and SMS.

>>8369428
>>>8369027 (OP)
>NES graphics are like halfway between C64 and SMS.

And a lot of NES games use memory mapper chips. It was almost common for every NES published game to have a MMC of somekind in the cartridge by 1991.

https://youtu.be/LrzxhBQoYBA?t=330
https://youtu.be/NhM8twrIKz8?t=157

>>8369428
and so is the sound, but in the opposite direction.

>>8369027
>Is it really more powerful than the NES/Famicom?
yea definitely
>The library just feels so primitive despite the superior hardware...
its almost like nintendo was using illegal business practices to have monopolistic control over third party developers or something...

srsly tho, while the SMS has less games overall, it still has quite a few really excellent exclusives you can only play there
this guy >>8369047 gets it

>>8369358
>there are just so many things 16-color tilemaps can do
Care to name a few other than being 16 color?

>>8369449
it means you can place stuff anywhere you want on the screen without having to align everything with the 8x8 tiles, which enables stuff like the isometric tileset I posted. isometric games on NES suffer a lot more from its limitations than sidescrollers do. but just about anything looks better when you can apply a large palette arbitrarily rather than having to divvy it up into 4 sets of 3 colors and one background color; art can be way more detailed and organic.

sega did however stupidly bottleneck the SMS with a 64-color palette, which is why some games look NES-like. game gear has almost identical hardware but increased the palette to 4096 which took it close to genesis-level graphics. NES games with a larger palette would look more like gameboy color games.

The MS was more powerful and had better games, it's just that the system had less games. So while the MS had 2 - 4 excellent games in one particular category the NES had. let's say, 20 (made up number) good, but not excellent, games in the same category.

>>8369358
That’s pretty cool. What game? The palm trees look like the ones from Sonic

>>8369554
unreleased sadly
https://www.spriters-resource.com/master_system/sonicsedusoftprototype/

>>8369075
NES could output a max of 25 out of 54 colors (including grey tones). SMS could do 32 out of 64. However, a lot of NES devs realized that less is more, so they used relatively few simultaneous colors. This way, the games could have a sort of "color identity".

SMS devs weren't as experienced, so they tended to vomit most of the palette on screen, which caused games to: a) look like EGA pastel explosions, which didn't always fit the game, and got tiring after a while; b) have little differentiation in terms of color schemes used, basically all games had a same-ish look.

>>8369075
SMS also has an RGB palette, which gives more garish and saturated colors than the NES's luma/chroma palette. SMS art could be way more detailed due to the higher bit depth but you're really restricted in terms of color identity.

>>8369516
So as expected, there's no magic involved and 16 colors does nothing but give you 16 colors. But good to know more colors = more powerful lmao at all those fools who bought a NeXT when they could have just waited a year and got a GB which is just as """powerful"""

>>8369705
no, because power is resolution times color so the NeXT is way more powerful.

>>8369705
the "strengths and weaknesses" view of SMS vs NES is still retarded and no one who actually understood the differences between them would frame it that way. SMS has a few small bottlenecks and NES a few small perks but they're literally different hardware generations only grouped together by convention.

>>8369047
>just try "iconic" games
which would be the equivalent to just play blackbox games and call the NES primitive

The sound chip for the master system had 1 less channel, also the NES chip had 1 extra waveform and a way to load samples. So it was a lot harder to make interesting music with the master system

NES couldn't even produce the color YELLOW

>>8369093
Notice how nintentoddlers suddenly STFU when SMS Sonic is posted

>>8369093
Not to mention that NES had to make extensive use of add-on chips. Games like Kirby, and Mario 3 weren't actually possible on the native hardware.

>>8369993
NES has Castlevania 3.

>>8370002
Those "add-on chips" are simple and cheap. Many of them were just discrete logic ICs. It's not like the SNES where whole microprocessors were shoved into the cartridge.

>>8369093
Wow that looks great. Is that the first game? I have the first two on game gear but I haven't played either of them long enough to see this level.

>>8370025
Ignoring addons is kind of ignoring one of the strengths of the cartridge format.

>>8369230
Master system being more popular in your country is the very definition of a third world country.

As a kid obviously loved Nintendo, and Sega too as I was lucky yo have both! But everytime I see people doing this stupid console war I realize how much Nintendo fucked us and deprived us from so many games with their greedy stupid restrictions! They knew their hardware sucked compared to Sega and did the "business" solution which was not only exclusives but also bullying the devs if they made other games on Sega platforms! I still like Nintendo games but I always emulate it because fuck Nintendo !

>>8370045
My point is not that the addons didn't exist, but that it isn't really a knock against the system. The console was designed for mappers and they improved the experience greatly despite being inexpensive.

>>8370025
SMB3 and Kirby use MMC3. This just adds finer granularity banking, address decoding for cartridge RAM, and an IRQ counter. Only stuff like MMC5 could be considered powerful enough to be almost a co-processor.

NOA had a publisher exclusivity clause until 1990 when a Federal judge struck it down for violating anti-trust statutes.

>>8369447
>its almost like nintendo was using illegal business practices to have monopolistic control over third party developers or something...
It's because Sega originally didn't want third-party developers on their consoles, since they saw other developers as a potential competitor. They remedied that with the Genesis.

>>8369717
>set resoultion lower
>system becomes less powerfull
>games run faster because system is less powerfull
>where's your god now

>>8369725
No idea what you imagine """the "strengths and weaknesses" view""" is but when comparing the two systems that's literally the only rational way it can be done. There is no unit of powerfullness that can be measured and the values compared. Anyone whose understanding of the systems goes beyond a few charts and shitposts made by fools and children will tell you exactly that.

>>8369027
same as it goes for every generation: nintendo has the games, competition has "muh specs"

>>8370747
ninja gaiden kinda sucks on SMS though

>>8370754
nah, the game is great

>>8370754
nah, the game is great imo

>>8370767
>>8370747
also, it came out in 1992 on SMS. If you wanted to be fair you'd be comparing with NG3 which came out in 91

but obviously you're not trying to be fair

>>8370754
>not a port of the NES or arcade game
>made for an 8-bit system in 1992
What were they thinking?!

>>8370750
lol sega literally have the better games, even with the draconian rules that nintendo imposed on licensing

>>8370769
Par for the course for this type of console warring; comparing 80s NES games to 90s Master System games.

>>8370769
NG3 is as ugly as the first game
Cope harder

>>8370780
Nope. You can see the difference just by comparing the specs. NES used extra chips on cartridges to make their games look slightly better. The Master System doesn't used that and still looked a lot better most of the time.

>>8370793
>NES used extra chips on cartridges to make their games look slightly better.
the extra chips they're talking about:

>>8370742
>>8370747
>>8370748
>>8370751
Based. Master System was an amazing console.

>>8370015
SMS has Master of Darkness.

>>8369075
>developers just decided to vomit colors on the screen, Amiga dev style
In the latter half of its life most Master System games WERE being made by Amiga developers.

>>8370809
Without extra chips the only thing that a NES can do is something on the same level of Mario 1. The majority of the games on the system had to be improved by third parties or sticking other chips that let you put more RAM or ROM than the NES supports. And still looked like shit anyway.

>>8369068
The SMS has a few games worth playing, but overall the NES library is better

>>8370845
You do realise that the SMS uses mappers too, right? They just don't accomplish half as much because the cartridge doesn't control character memory like it does on the NES.

>>8370809
>extra chips
>one chip

>>8370049
>the burgercentric perspective
Yes, so important

>>8370859
>an extra chip that changes entirely how the game is processed
>"huur duur it's one chip"
Are americans that ignorant?

>>8370852
lol are you really trying to compare mappers on the NES and on SMS anon? that's a fuckin joke

>>8370924
> that changes entirely how the game is processed
a counter? an address decoder? You are vastly overestimating how complicated mappers are.

>>8370929
not my fault the sms gimped itself with internal character ram. still has to use mappers but can't extract even half the value from them.

>>8370845
>The majority of the games on the system had to be improved by third parties or sticking other chips that let you put more RAM or ROM than the NES supports.
The NES can map more cartridge memory than the Master System out of the box.

>>8370845
Exactly. Nintendo always had the worst systems so they had to lie and cheat with extra enhancements and enforce licensing blockers to sell their shitty consoles. Very pathetic if you ask me.

>>8370834
Ha yeah ok retard

>>8370948
Memory capacity is about the same for both.

>32k without mappers
>up to 512k with mappers--Metal Slader Glory is 1MB but that's just one game

>>8369629
That's only 7 colors difference, but the key difference here is that the SMS has two 16 color palettes, one for sprites and one for backgrounds, while the NES has 8 four color palettes, four for sprites and four for backgrounds. It's why later NES games like Kirbys Adventure have a 'blocky' look to the stages and why Dedede has no blue on him. On the NES you had to stack sprites to get more colors, on the SMS you could just use what sprites you had and not worry about using too many.

>>8369093
Castlevania 3 which is considered good has some pretty ugly areas and looks worse than master of darkness but cv3 has a few nice animations and line scrolling effects.

>>8369516
Some gamegear games look 16 bit just because of the colours. Ristar has better colours than the genesis in areas.

>>8370002
Master system had add on chips in the cartridge too, sms can only use 32kb stock.

>>8369027
I find them pretty comparable in that you can tell they are the same generation. Video output is very poor on nes and no rgb, it has annoying flickering when scrolling which is why rgb mods are popular. Sms has colours but nes is full screen, power strike 2 and recca seem comparable.

>>8370049
So you got stuck overpaying for 8 bit games. You had crappy acclaim games while I was playing ecco the dolphin and aladdin.

>composite video only
nintenfags WILL defend this

>>8371104
>That's only 7 colors difference, but the key difference here is that the SMS has two 16 color palettes, one for sprites and one for backgrounds, while the NES has 8 four color palettes, four for sprites and four for backgrounds. It's why later NES games like Kirbys Adventure have a 'blocky' look to the stages and why Dedede has no blue on him. On the NES you had to stack sprites to get more colors, on the SMS you could just use what sprites you had and not worry about using too many.

The Game Boy Colour basically works the exact same way as the NES when it comes to displaying colours on screen. But has a 15bit 32k colour pallete like the SNES. Shantae for the GBC used stacked sprites for Shantae's sprite to produce more colours.

https://youtu.be/oPExkCFzuO4?t=1405

The Master System and Game Gear have 15 colours for the sprite layer and 16 colours for the BG titles. The Genesis/ Mega Drive works like this too, but supports extra sprite and BG layers for up to 64 colours. Here's mega man on the GameGear. The GG has a 9bit 4k colour pallete:

https://youtu.be/1BEv6TwiYcs?t=446

>>8369093
Gremlins 2 can hang. Most Sunsoft games, actually. Not just good graphics but they also managed to avoid flicker for the most part, somehow.

>>8371209
>Here's mega man on the GameGear. The GG has a 9bit 4k colour pallete:


Somebody actually ported the game to the Master System (colour conversion) and larger view distance. It almost looks official.

https://youtu.be/myEPlxV8Wm0?t=63

>>8371209
The GBC is basically the NES if it used the MMC5 and had the SNES' color palette. I believe GBC can use more than 8 total palettes, too. However it's still a game boy on the end, while it can display a whopping two more sprites per scanline, it seemingly can render less sprites overall than the NES, I think like 40 total?

>>8369047
no.
The library is just shit.

I grew up with the SMS and I was a sega fan boy - I still like Sega and I'm so retarded to actually own Sega Sammy holdings stocks.
Just to give you an idea who you are talking to because you quickly get called Nintendo nerd her or get some other stupid label.
So I grew up with SMS, sega was more popular here among my friends (Europe and not Brazil) and I discovered the NES library through emulation when I was like 23 and I've to admit that I was blown away. So many great games.
Don't get me wrong : I've played every single western sega master system game there is and most games sadly suck / aren't that good.
The NES has so many great and amazing games, it blows my mind and even became my favourite console.

heck if I had to name some good SMS games it would be the Asterix games and Smurfs and Castle of Illusion. Don't even like Sonic on the SMS. And that's about it. wow
oh and bubble bobble on the SMS is better than Nes.

while NES I'd say
legend of Zelda
Castlevania 1,3
kid Dracula
Mario 1,23
mega Man series
final fantasy
star tropics
duck tales 1,2
chip and dale 1,2
darkwing duck
Kirby
shadow gate
River city ransom
turtles 1-3
skate or die
ski or die
battle toads
double dragon
micro machines
donkey Kong
monsters in my pocket
snake, rattle and roll
Tetris
warios woods
panic restaurant
gargoyles quest

and those are just the first few games that randomly came to my mind. really the amount of amazing games the NES has is so gigantic while SMS is mostly stinkers and sonic for SMS, alex kidd and wonder boy can all fuck off but even if i count them SMS doesn't get too many more games.

>>8371373
>The GBC is basically the NES if it used the MMC5 and had the SNES' color palette

It's a little more than that. GBC has 32k RAM (NES has only 2k) displays 512 bg tiles and it can flip them. Yes it has fewer sprites (40) but it can also display 10 per line instead of 8.

>>8369093
I'm sorry but this looks awful and I love old school sonic and don't like mario.
SMS could do more colours and what did they do? everything green...
technical limitations Vs good art direction and style. those bushes suck so much. if there was a blue or darker sky for some contrast but I see green everywhere.
they also colour like kids who don't know about colours: grass green, Bush green, plant green
so fucking boring. the tiny bush part that's purple shows that they also could have known better

>>8371379
I think sms has quality over quantity, with nes you have a lot crappy acclaim wrestling games.
For most of those sms has equivalents.
zelda - golden axe warrior
mario 3 - wonder boy 3
final fantasy - phantasy star
tetris - columns
duck tales and disney games- all the sms disney games
star tropic - govelious
shadow gate - spellcaster

there are a few games the sms doesn't have an equivelent but the sms has a few games that the nes has nothing like too such as populous and hang on

>>8370748
Not sure why but this one makes me laugh

>>8371379
hey, nice blog bro
but before writing all that shit you could have took a moment to read and realize that people are not saying that the Master System has better games than the NES (which it doesn't), but that it is a far more powerful system and the games are clearly more technically impressive, it would a massive amounts of cope to try to deny, for every Master System bottleneck the NES has two (aside from the music if you exclude the FM chip, there the NES was the clear winner)

>>8371716
>with nes you have a lot crappy acclaim wrestling games.

The Chad Flying Edge> virgin Acclaim

>>8371402
You have to admit Master System looks better than NES. Notice no one has even attempted to post NES screenshots side by side?

>>8371727
>which it doesn't
Wrong.

>>8370924
>when you're so booty blasted your cope is just rambeling drivel.
Seethe harder little zoomie. And thanks for outing yourself as a fool who doesn't even understand what chip that is.

>>8371716
>tetris - columns

GameGear> Master System
https://youtu.be/1QZ6Q-1Oh40?t=43
https://youtu.be/3LUqzbfMWbc?t=143

>>8369838
>The sound chip for the master system had 1 less channel, also the NES chip had 1 extra waveform and a way to load samples.
Which is why the decision to not include the YM2413 in the global version was so retarded.

>>8371716
>with nes you have a lot crappy acclaim wrestling games.

yeah! Fuck Acclaim!

>>8369027
It is unfair to compare them to each other. You should be comparing the SG-1000 to the Famicom

>>8372116
I think you are the one who doesn't understand what a chip does, you fucking illiterate sperglord. By increasing the amount of RAM and ROM on the cartridge you can literally make another game, with more assets, levels and resources. Even then, it's not on the same level of the SMS.

Now go back to /v/ with your "zoomie memes" you fucking piece of incel shit.

>>8372452
>I think
Not very well, if at all
>doesn't understand what a chip does
Epic projecting, zoom zoom. You're the one who thinks a simple logic chip "changes entirely how the game is processed". Whatever that means in that vacuous little head of yours.
You're clearly so butthurt you can't even think or post coherently. Probably best if you take your own advice and fuck off back to /v/ where you can win arguments by projecting about your sex life. You're just embarassing yourself here.

Master System >>>>>>>> NES

It was bullshit that the Master System can't flip sprites.

>>8372452
Protop: every master system game which is bigger than 48K (most of them) also uses a mapper

>>8372837
pretty sure it's 32k without a mapper since that provides the address decoding for $8000-$BFFF same as the NES

>>8372424
The SG-1000 used a chipset from the 70s it was an earlier generation.

>>8372727
A game like Adventures of Lolo might be tricky for the Master System to pull off for that reason.

the NES had like 250 different mappers, the Master System had one standard Sega mapper

>>8372852
So what. It was released on the same day as the famicom

>>8371379
>heck if I had to name some good SMS games it would be the Asterix games and Smurfs and Castle of Illusion.
This is how I know you're full of shit. If you had actually played all of the SMS's library you would know that Castle of Illusion is seriously overrated because it's all Americans got (with them not being familiar with the Master System). Its Master System-exclusive sequel Land of Illusion is far better, arguably the best platformer of its generation.

>>8369027
Most of the iconic games for it came out early in the console’s library. Later releases on the thing showed what it could properly do in terms of colors, graphics and sound, but since no one gave a shit about the thing in America, not many people are aware of what it can do. Imagine if people judged the NES’ capabilities and power by the launch games like fucking Stack Up and Popeye, compared to later releases where developers got a hang of what the system could properly do in regards to sound (most Sunsoft titles), graphics (Kirby’s Adventure, Mega Man 6) and speed (Recca 92, Combat Frogs)

That being said there’s still some games that people are fully aware of that look fantastic. Wonder Boy 3 for example

>>8369064
>>8369443
>>8369838
>>8371727
>>8372136
I actually really like how SMS music sounds. Like with the Mega Drive and SNES, the SMS and NES are suited for different kinds of music, with Nintendo having the broader range but Sega really kicking ass where it does well. In particular, I consider the Master System version of the Lemmings soundtrack by far the best one. (This is in large part due to Matt Furniss's excellent arrangement work, but it's a good demonstration of music that could never be made on the NES.)

>>8370038
Yes, that's Jungle Zone from Sonic 1. Third stage if I recall correctly. Significant difficulty spike, though you get used to it after playing enough.

>>8370742
I actually much prefer the much cleaner aesthetic of the DOS and NES versions. The Master System's version looks more detailed but it's a lot messier and takes effort to identify what is what. This is primarily an art design thing though; I don't know how it looks on other systems, but levels 4-6 look much prettier in the DOS version while still looking clean.

>>8371379
>double dragon
I certainly hope you're referring to the NES-exclusive alternative Double Dragon II, which is legit way better than everything else Double Dragon. For 'real' Double Dragon the consensus seems to be that SMS > NES.
>micro machines
Wasn't the Master System version better?
>Tetris
The NES version of Tetris is generally considered awful last I checked.
>gargoyles quest
Gargoyle's Quest is for Game Boy, not NES. The NES has Gargoyle's Quest II, which I've never been able to get into despite loving the original Gargoyle's Quest.

>>8369942
So that means making an adaptation of the dancing yellow cat would be impossible (on top of being extremely difficult), but at least the yellow is the correct one for Simpsons characters...

>>8373397
>is far better
Can't they both be good?

>>8372727
That tends to be why Master System games have few sprites on screen most of the time while NES games like LOZ throw around so many as to cause slowdown.

>>8373503
Perhaps, but the point is he wasn't even mentioning Land while mentioning Castle and implying there are no other good games. Nobody who enjoyed Castle would consider Land a bad game.

>>8372852
>NOOOO YOU CANT COMPARE FAMICOMS DIRECT COMPETITOR FROM THAT WAS RELEASED ON THE SAME DAY
do segoys really?

>>8373616
No. The SG-1000 was designed and intended for launch in 1981 but Sega held off two years because Sega are and have always been retarded. They instead released it in 83 against a newer console that wiped the floor with it.

>>8372424
someone here said the SG-1000 actually outsold the famicom at first because famicom cartridges were too expensive. releasing a basic 2nd-gen system as a stopgap for something more powerful seems like a reasonable strategy, they just whiffed the second part by not expanding the sound and color palette to have a clear generational advantage over NES.

>>8373616
>>8373639
The SG-1000 is a rebranded Colecovision

>>8373639
There is conflicting articles about that '81 testing rumor. There is also conflicting stores about whether Sega just ripped off the Colecovison since they had a distribution deal with them. I doubt we will ever get the definitive truth.

>>8373671
Was it the SG by itself? Or sales combined with the micro computer? Because the Famicom BASIC computer sucked ass, I wouldn't doubt that the SC-3000 was way better

>>8373675
>>8373674
The internals are the same but the SG-1000 has a different memory map/controllers/no BIOS and it used a newer DRAM type that runs off single rail power instead of the outdated triple rail toaster oven (for how hot it gets) RAM the Colecovision uses.

>>8373671
>someone here said the SG-1000 actually outsold the famicom at first because famicom cartridges were too expensive.

The initial production Famicoms had hardware issues that led to a recall. That could be a reason. As for the cartridges being expensive that might make sense as they had two ROM chips while SG-1000 carts had just one.

>>8371402
>SMS could do more colours and what did they do? everything green...
Worked for FF on NES.

>>8373714
Nintendo's design philosophy was to keep the console itself to a bare minimum so it would cost less and instead the cartridge itself would contain extra cost hardware.

I had no idea the Master System had such an advantage on displaying sprite colors, until I started messing with NES graphics, and then went to play Lucky Dime Caper on Master System.

>>8373671
It wasn't a matter of cost. Early on Sega just put out more games for their console than Nintendo, it was only when third parties got involved that Nintendo started to have an edge.

>>8369071
>>8372727
If I remember corect, 3Ddungeons in Phantasy Star are the same sprite flipped four times.

>>8375554
It could flip background tiles rather than sprites. It's probably that instead.

>>8375554
you can only mirror the screen vertically not horizontally, because the dungeon has turns.