/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8357607
Only euros find virtual shekel-hunting entertaining.

>>8357607
Who cares what other anons think. Just play whatever the fuck you like to play.

Collectathons are based and so is DK64. Fuck those fags.

people don't feel gratification for collecting items in videogames anymore unless they're also spending hundreds of dollars in microtransactions to get them

>>8357607
The problem with collectathons is they aren't real platformers, they're actually sandbox games like GTA3.

Games like Crash got 3D platforming right. Not trash like Mario 64, Banjo, Spyro, etc.

>>8357607
The problem is the actual gameplay tends to be boring.
There's a reason that Super Mario 64 is usually called a 3D platformer and not a "collectathon", despite having plenty of collecting. It's because it has good core gameplay, compared with Banjo-Kazooie where the platforming is a joke.

>>8357683
low iq take

>>8357726
You need to calm down, relax take a break from playing high octane shmups and pvp.

>>8357607
>he plays goal oriented video games

>>8357607
like some others said, "collectathon" is just a concept. what matters in the end is gameplay. SM64 makes getting every star a quest and pretty much all of them are interesting. Yoshi's Island has more stuff to collect, some in plain sight, but harder ones actually make you think and perform hard jumps or clear the game without losing health. it tests your attention, egg throwing / jumping skills and everything else.
by comparison, most other collectathons just have collectibles laying in plain sight. it's often mindnumbingly boring, and the point is collecting everything scattered through game like an autist. it's not really used as a device to create clever puzzles, or make you go through carefully designed levels, or test your skills. it's just a cheap way to introduce false sense of "depth" to boring flat level design, and pad out the game by making you aimlessly walk and collect 1000 golden turds or whatever.
all in all, the issue is not collecting, the issue is how interesting and challenging it is to collect stuff.

>>8357635
yes but he wanted to talk about it. so don't give people just blanket statements that ignore why they're really making a thread.

>>8357781
I don't think any other genre gets deconstructed like this

>>8357781
>SM64 makes getting every star a quest and pretty much all of them are interesting.
literally talk to the toad's around the castle and skip the dialogue because ain't reading that shit
*ya-haw you found me* power star

>>8357821
i think collectathons probably were yuroformers in disguise
make yuroformer, add collectathon elements, and voila - it passes for actual full price "game"

>>8357832
nice cherrypicking. it's literally just 3 stars out of 120. try harder next time

People misunderstand the appeal of a good collectathon is using collectibles as a carrot and stick incentive to explore the world and play various challenges. That's where the actual fun part comes in. Even the developers seemed to miss this past a certain point, with more and more of the game being spent picking shit up, without much of a challenge involved.
It funny how you only have to tweak the formula a little to end up with Breath of the Wild, and suddenly everyone loves it again.

It's a 2000s thing, born out of the "cynic angry review" style that was so prevalent during those years and it kinda stuck as a meme.

>>8357840
then why are you nitpicking Banjo-Kazooie autist

>>8357843
i'm surprised by the amount of players and devs that miss this notion, a string of minor collectibles ought lead to a challenging portion of the level to obtain a macguffin

>>8357781
I don't Think you really mean what you mean. Your conflating challenge with enjoyment, are you really frequently game overing in Mario 64 and yoshi or really any 3d platformer? No your not. It's that it's also an adventure game with it's main mechanic being platforming. It's the sum of all parts that gives them depth the joy of movement the atmosphere the adventure aspect. Some people just can't see the forest through the trees, with genre combining games. some people hate deus ex because it combines stealth shooting and an RPG while it fails to be better then Stealth fpses an RPGs that are only one genre. And that's a real logical fundamental point like the one you made that you can't really argue other then that it just isn't.

>>8357849
it's not "nitpicking" when it's most of the game
also funny how i never mentioned and didnt even think specificaly of banjo kazooie, yet you get hurt all of sudden. hit too close home?

>>8357843
Fucking this. Sort of what I was getting at here.
>>8357856

>>8357857
Your already several paragraphs deep expressing fundamental arguments about a genre you don't enjoy, so what are you doing here? Do you believe that it's possible for someone to have valid fundamentals that aren't yours that are equally correct?

>>8357857
Well that was because for a moment from reading your post we felt your hyper critical lens that you view these games through. It's almost like it's possible to see things both ways and still be equally valid. Novel concept

>>8357857
>didnt even think specificaly of banjo kazooie
you're burning down a forest and i am calling you out for setting my tree on fire, fag

>>8357607
the challenges in DK64 are extremely well designed. Many of them have a satisfying difficulty curve and actually make me feel accomplished to go from sucking at a particular event to slowly figuring out what works and finally beating it.

>>8357683
Mario 64 is the 3D platformer

people need to learn how to assess what games do well and what they don't even attempt to do. And then stop evaluating them based on criteria they were not even trying to meet.

>>8357779
>posts polar opposite picrel of post content

>>8357726
>compared with Banjo-Kinooie where the platforming is a joke
yeah up until the last couple levels

>>8358150
>fall in water
>start drowning
>surface
>still drowning

>>8357683
Mario 64 is not a collectathon. Stars are just the natural three-dimensional extension of what a goal post was in the 2D games.

>>8357726
>>8357781
>>8357843
>>8357856
I think the difference is better appreciated on high level play eg speedruns. In one skilled players use the limited moveset to go out of their way in ways less skilled ones couldn't even imagine yet still come out on top, in the other it's...basically doing the same but somewhat more optimized.

>>8358152
RBB is probably the most intelligently designed level in the entire platforming Genre, with a near-perfect balance of challenge/difficulty, no cheap "gotcha" tricks, just a really hard level that requires the use of everything learned up to that point.

>Entrance to the zone is hidden underwater, requiring a light puzzle just to get access
>full of vertical and horizontal challenges
>Lots of Jiggies are placed on dangerously high objects like the ship's smokestacks or the crane that goes so high up the music cuts out, letting you know in no uncertain terms you are way to high up
>interior areas are cramped and packed with lots of enemies, sometimes 4+ in a single space
>good luck finding honeycombs to replace the lost health
>half the inert objects like barrels and port windows are actually mimic enemies in disguise
>entire game spent swimming in water with no problem- suddenly it's a big problem
>underwater jiggies with low visibility and rapid reducing air
>snapper the shark thrown in for good measure
I still never got to click clock woods, and i'm fine with that

>>8358162
dancing around the 3D sandbox platformer dichotomy

Jak and Daxter is the best collectathon.

I think there's this whole "you just collect shit and nothing else" thing people say about these games while forgetting that most collectathons usually have:

-Tons of Exploration and Secrets to find
-Interesting worlds
-Collectables that are fun to get
-A lot of personality in the game's characters and writing
-Fun movesets (not as fluid as Mario's 3D moves but still fun enough to use)
-Varied challenge between minigames, puzzles, races, endurance, etc...

>>8357607
If it was just the golden bananas and the blueprints that would have been fine. But no, you need to collect 500 fucking bananas on every level.

Original donkey kong country was fun because you didnt have to collect ALL the fucking bananas

TOO MANY FUCKIN BANANAS, HOLMES

If you ever wanted a reason to play DK64, its this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mafPZBnkDVE

feast your ears and pretend its banjo kazooie or something

https://youtu.be/EKafeiTyRGI?t=33

guys im getting the itch to play... OOOHHH GODDD, IMM GONNA PLAAAAYYYYY OOOOOOOHHHGGGGGG

>>8358162
Just because collectibles are gotten by achieving a goal doesn't make them not collectibles. DK64 and Banjo Kazooie have goal oriented collectibles too. And SM64 also has stars out in the open just like the other two as well. Besides, stars are just one collectible. The real one that matters are the keys, which stars unlock, which is generally how collectathons work, each collectible is used to unlock another collectible.

>>8358174
True and based effortposter

>>8358745
His post was fine until he said
>I still never got to click clock woods, and i'm fine with that
Well I'm glad he's okay with that, but I'm not. Go back and beat the game.

>>8357652
DK64 was gay as fuck. The rest of the collectathons were good. Having to switch out to every character to pick up their specific bananas and coins and shit was annoying as hell. Least they could have done is not make us walk to a special fucking barrel to do it for each character or have less characters. God damn faggots.

>>8357607
>>8357632
>>8357635
>>8357810
>>8357652
>>8359015
>>8358536
>>8357726
>>8358150

Instead of simulating the act of achieving something with your Bing Bing Wahoos, have you tried to self actualize and participate in the game that you are being forced to play right now without your previous consent? I am referring to the Game of Life. Instead of wasting your time on a Nepalese Involuntary Celibate Participation trophy board, you should be out gaining achievements in the real world instead of in a skinner box designed by small asian men with small pensises who are trapped on an island filled with nuclear radiation.

>>8359015
Literally never had a problem with switching or warping. You just got filtered. And yes I played the DKC games too. They're all great.

>>8357726
What? Mario 64 is 100% called a collectathon, you fucking liar.

>>8359303
a lot of people think collectathon is a negative word and feel that it is an insult to call SM64 that, but it's just a neutral description of what the game is. It absolutely is a collectathon (which is a good thing, it's one of the best). If that anon could get past his prejudice he would see it.

>It's another thread dedicated to bitching about DK64 episode
/vr/ really is just Retro - /vg/

>>8359253
I've played and beaten them all but I would never recommend DK64.

>>8357632
Sales numbers show that you couldn't be more wrong.

>>8359365
seethe

>>8359043
>Bing Bing Wahoos
Stop right there. I don't play Mario. I'm a Gex chad.

>>8359043
underrated post

>>8359437
you mean obnoxiously hypocritical

>>8359450
Because he's still here with us spergs? I guess so, but it's a funny post.

>>8359380
To be serious for a moment I get the complaints that people have, they just never affected me personally. I think DKC2 is the best DK game but the sense of wonder and joy that I got from DK64 was far greater than anything I could have gotten from a fourth DKC entry.

>>8359541
I hear you. It's a fun game. The only problem is the fun wears on you when you want to 100% the game because there is sooo much backtracking you have to do. Unfortunately, when I like a game, I try to 100% it (within reason) and this game fucking killed me trying to do that so I eventually just moved forward and beat it. There really is too much and it's no convenient to get it all.

But yes, still a fun game in general.

>>8359043
>*sounds of Banjo making retard noises and a noisy ass squawking bird drown out your nagging*
Duh-Huh
now c'mere stupid collectamathinger #3001

>>8358174
Click Clock Wood and that stupid central tree with all the changing seasons is the definition of ultimate challenge

>>8358521
Fun as fuck minigame

>>8359404
Did you not see the post--I'm TIRED!
Also retort better.

>>8358505
Based, this reminds me of my youth before clown world, ty anon.

>>8360479
bro lemme tell you all about it. I was 9 years old in 1999 and I had an N64. I saved up my birthday money to buy Donkey Kong 64 for $65 (with expansion pack) and it blew my mind. Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time were amazing games with huge environments, but this game just blew them both out of the water. 120 stars? 9 dungeons? Fuck that shit, how about a billion fucking things to collect in DK64! I remember basically clearing this game but kept coming back to fungi forest just to hear the music. BTW it has a night theme too. Its not as upbeat because its the 'evil' counterpart to the 'happy' map.

>>8360491
link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LUkiAemEWI

>>8360491
Senpai, I also saved up my sheckles when I was 9 years old in 1999 to buy DK64 (with expansion pack). I had played OoT already (shadow dungeon scared me so I hadn't beaten it). The sheer scale of DK64, the goofy ass character animations, the different characters, the amazing DIDDY KONG JET PACK, it was all wonderful. I eventually 100% the game a few years later. While you can argue that DK64 had flaws, it's so much than modern bullshit "games as an experience". The true successors to the games of our childhood never game to be (inb4 Sonic Adventure 3), our future was usurped and we branched into our currently reality of pozzed modern games. But do not fear my /vr brothers, for there are more SOUL classic games than you can have time to play in a lifetime. We must spread the WORD of our COVENANT, how many dumbass zoomers have never heard of DK64, or BK, or w/e? They are but the proles in Plato's Cave, distracted by the shadows of Fortnite and other heresy. Break their shackles and we can have GENERATIONS play DK64 until the end of TIME. INSHALLAH

>>8360502
my diddy kong nigga. Remember how badass his guitar solo was? (at the time)

A couple of times I brought my friends to my place after school and we did 4 man multiplayer. I was the only one who played that game before so I schooled the fuck out of them. Unrelated but one time I got this kid to ragequit and start crying during mario party 2 because I accidentally gave his star to the CPU and he thought I meticulously planned it because I hated him or something. Ohhh jesus.

>>8360502
buddy, dont even get me started. if you didnt play Battle Tanks against your neighbor and his little brother, then you didnt even have a fucking childhood. If you didnt rent Super Smash Bros 64 and play your classmates on a friday night while eating pizza, then you never truely lived. People like this are worse than incels, because they missed out on something that can never possibly be created. In fact, if that had happened to me I would fucking kill myself already. Im so glad I grew up doing barrel rolls in starfox 64 than liSteNinG tO jUsTin bEIber and playing mInecAfT~, sheesh, poor kids these days dont know how bad they have it. I pity them, I really do

>>8360521
I've unironically never played battletanks. I remember getting my pokemans and going to my friend's house with a lot of people to put them on Pokemans Stadium and battle them (I got btfo).

But you can enlighten the zoomers, if they aren't retarded then they will see how sick games before 2004 were

>>8360565
As the lord and savior of our holy Nintendo, I advise you to purify your soul with the holiness of Battle Tanx on the N64. You havent lived until you played it. I am blessed and glad to be the one to save your soul with this sage advice, so heed my advice as once and seize your lost childhood.

>>8359015
>>8359015
The only people who hate DK64, are people with massive OCD, who have to collect every item as soon as they see them

>>8360623
The OG or the sequel?

>>8357607
There's nothing wrong with collecting items. It's a good incentive to get the player to explore and fully complete the game.

I imagine a popular streamer has invented the term 'collectathon' and stated they are bad, and this opinion has now been assigned to their impressionable fanbase and spread from there.

>>8360794
i am sure this is accurate, it's probably why there are complaints about ubisoft open world games, i just don't get how seeing a bunch of content *You Could Complete* as daunting, i find the notion of there being so much potential gameplay as enthralling as fuck, if i head anywhere in the game i might just stumble upon shit, that's rad

>DK this
>DK that
>Donkey Kong Donkey Kong Donkey Kong
Bitch
How about
CHUNKY KONG

>>8360876
Based DK64 enjoyer

>>8360863
that's pretty much what happens, current gen would rather spew whatever some dumb youtuber reviewer has to say over actually playing the game.
Kinda reminds me of Yooka-Laylee where everyone was calling it mediocre and when I played it I enjoyed it so much I 100% it.

>>8361736
Yooka did suck. It lacked soul.

>>8361736
more like yooka gaylee. It lacked a primal level of soul and childlike imagination that can never be recreated. Games today simply cannot succeed their counterparts of the early 2000s. Soul died with the 9/11 towers

>>8360794
I see this a lot when people complain about switching every time you see a collectible. I never switch until I complete one kong's stuff. It's actually faster, and makes each level feel like 5 small banjo Kazooie levels.

>>8361761
>>8361906
I had fun with it despite the flaws, not a bad game like everyone said.

>>8357607
It’s funny, the people who say they’re shit are also the ones who enjoy open world Ubisoft games

>>8358505
DK64 is better than banjo 2ie and it’s not even close

>>8361954
im fuckin with ya buddy, I got it for free on Epic so I might play it some time. thanks for recommending it

didn't they said they were going to make an N64 version of Yooka Laylee? They just switched it to a thumb drive inside an N64 cart or some shit at the last minute.

>>8361967
the last patch fixed a lot of technical issues people had with the game, its much better now (played and 100% it on release) so I hope you like the game, the rextro minigames suck and a I got lost a lot of times but the worlds are pretty fun to explore still and the duo's moveset is fun, my favorite part was being able to get to places you shouldn't via all the ways to keep your air momentum or climbing through the scenery to get there.
The 2D sequel is also great if you like DKC.

>>8361964
they're both very average games. dk64 being the ugliest to look at and play.

I've never been a fan of collectables in general. I much prefer getting a singular reward for doing a singular something, like finding hidden health upgrades in Metroidlikes.

>>8361946
I agree, I would try to 100% a kong before moving to another one. Sometimes you need multiple to complete a challenge, but the devs usually put a switch barrel close by in those cases.

>>8362564
Based, this is the most enjoyable way to play the game. The haters should give it a try.

Well, the 3 rare collectathons are all kinda shit. Banjo 1 is the only decent one. Dk64 and banjo 2 go wayyyyy to far with it's bullshit

>>8362578
Haters love to seethe and argue over bullshit, /vr is a board of peace

>>8358174
you are missing the best level

>>8360502
just curious, on a scale of 1-10, how serious were you when you wrote this post? I need to know. Its for my wellbeing and sanity.

Honestly believe that the Spyro games are the genre at its best. Levels of just the right size, with just the right amount of collectables and challenges to do in each level. Too much and too big is what DK64 and BT get wrong

>>8362804
when you say BT, do you mean battletanks or battletoads?

>>8362808
Use some context clues

>>8362842
fuck you faggot. how about that, eh?

>>8357607
>I never understood the hate "collectathons" get
Instead of appreciating the gameplay, figuring out how to use character moves to clear obstacles, defeat bosses, find secrets and beat the game, you're collecting 1000 golden turds for a percentage counter to reach triple digits on your screen, and that's retarded.

>>8362808
Banjo-Tooie

>>8359043
Lmao, that's one of the most schizo posts I've ever seen and I love it for it.

>>8362915
that's gameplay you dolt

>>8359043
This is why I usually filter mass replies.

DK64 is the sort of game you appreciated more as a kid. With no responsibilities you actually wanted to collect/find as many trinkets as possible instead of rushing through the challenges. Hell sometimes there'd be no motivation at all and you'd run around the 3D world for the hell of it, seeing what you could find.

Today's Ubishit games are basically DK64, but with the pretense of being for 'adults' and with all the fun/wonder/invention stripped from them. Not to mention the worlds are needlessly gargantuan, so they feel like work instead of play.

>>8362915
>appreciating the gameplay, figuring out how to use character moves to clear obstacles, defeat bosses, find secrets and beat the game
How does that not describe your average collectahon?
The difference is literally just that some games have a gold object you collect at the end of the level, and some don't.

The thing that defines the collectahon genre more than anything, I think, is non-linearity. Instead of putting all of the levels in a straight line, they let you pick the ones you want to play, and in which order. They're games built around a system of keys and doors, and there are more keys than there are doors.

>>8358521
>song that's unique to this challenge is approximately as long as it takes to complete it
God damn Grant is based

>>8357607
You're not exploring. You can see the trinkets from miles away so you know where to go. You're just chasing after shiny shit like a dog.

>>8364053
for sure, this is what i love about collectathons they are a pure 3D video game, most other games are quintessentially 2D in how they go in a straight line with no deviation