/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8345552
SOVL

>>8345552
Immersion

>>8345556
Super Mario Bros. already had that.
>>8345568
Super Mario Bros. already had that.

>>8345552
In a practical way? hints for potential secrets.

>>8345571
It already had world maps too in SMB3 so nothing was added

>>8345575
Super Mario Bros. already had that. Out of reach pipes, blocks and paths to warp worlds.

>>8345556
fpbp

>>8345595
No shit. I didn’t say SMW was the first to do it.

>>8345602
Cope

It adds more layers of replay value. I mean, you can ignore a large part of the game world and just go through the star road to reach Bowsers castle. Or you could find every secret and 100% the game.

In some way, it is a type of skeumorphism, it grounds the story in a more visible and even realistic way. You move from island to island, place to place and they feel like real places in Mario's world. In SMB you have a card like display of the world. It's not a huge deal, if the levels were the same but SMB had a world and SMW didn't, they wouldn't be that much better or worse either way. Yoshi Island had the most straight forward levels and it's still a great game. I do prefer to see the world more like SMW, I think it's even easier to recall which level is which.

Super Mario Bros 3 did the overworld so much better.
>Item system - you can choose what to equip before entering any level
>Roaming hammer bros that you could either fight or avoid
>Optional levels and branching paths
>Toad houses
>Slot minigame. Card minigame.
>Rare ghost ships
>Destroyable rocks
>Ridable boats
>Bridges that opened and closed in the water levels
>Airships that would fly over the map and required being chased
>Etc

Mario World got rid of all these things. But at least it had switch palaces, right?

>>8345552
With smw backtracking.

>>8345552
>The notion of where you are
>Different routes
>Funny names for each stage / world
>Immersion because you imagine a whole world beyond just clouds and platforms on an empty sky
>A sense of completion that lets you either rush Bowser down or go 100% finding all secret exits
>Game is called super mario WORLD
>Imagine going through 72 levels super mario bros. style without a save feature or space context
>Literally every Mario game after bros. had an overworld, becoming a series' staple

>>8345689
>every game after world had a map
3 introduced the map and was the only game to get it right.

>>8345696
>"map"
>just a bunch of completely different and disconnected worlds
>"get it right"
cringe and yikespilled

>>8345720
Anon you are out of touch. Having completely different and unique worlds is one of the many reasons 3 stomps on World.

>>8345552
What do you mean? It allows you to choose which level you want to (re)play and looks cool.

>>8345696
>>8345720
>>8345732
I was the one who posted >>8345689
To my taste, yes, SMB3 is superior to World.
But that's because I like challenge. I was just answering OP's question though.
Come to the overworld thing, I think World's is best than 3's because it had more thought taken into it.
If you ask me, though, nothing will ever be comfier than 64's castle, but that's just because I have a deep emotional attachment to the title.

>>8345737
>replay
Yikes. Mario 3 got it right. If you want a secret ending you either fluke it or get it right with skill.

>>8345751
>World and Mario 64 world maps
Replaying levels isn't a strength. You should beat it once then move on. If a secret exists you basically have one shot at it adding to the challenge.

>>8345552
nobody cares marxist fuck off with your brutalist nihilism
>what does it add
i like it, so kill yourself

>>8345763
I don't invalidate your opinion, a game being more direct does have it's value.
Like I said, SMB64 is more of a comfort thing to me because of my personal history with the game.
SMB3 is a better Mario game overall than SMB though, even if you don't like the overworld

>>8345552
I like games that let you replay specific levels you've already beat. I like the sense of progress you feel as you check each stage off on your map. I also like how it makes the world feel like something that actually exists. Other than that, it's charming and comfy.

>>8345596
Those are hints in-level. SMB1 only has warp zones, SMW has actual branching paths and multiple exits per level.
Trying to find something bad about the SMW map is stupidly contrarian

>>8345552
makes the areas feel more connected. like last game, you were hopping from area to area, and yeah those areas were pretty cool too, especially the giant and pipe worlds, but there's nothin connectin' em.

>>8345556
fpbp

>>8345552
The hammer represents everything SMB3's map adds to the player's experience.

A hammer can be received between two psuedo-random levels that they can easily chose to ignore. The player must then decide when to use this hammer between stages - depending on their choice, they can either open up valuable secrets, shortcuts to later levels, or nothing at all. The hammer leaves the player's inventory after use - never to be seen again unless the player comes across another psuedo-random interlude.

Without a map screen, this entire exchange is absolutely nonsencial from a game design perspective - instead of a helpful secret, it would feel arbitrary and pointless, with half of the player base agressively hoarding every hammer they can get their hands on in hopes that their patience would be rewarded and the other half recklessly wasting it on whatever rock appeared to them first (Moreover, all of the above informaiton would have to be conveyed through decidedly un-Mario text prompts). The issue here is a lack of information given to the player: something that a map screen easily corrects. At a glance, the player can tell which stages will yield hammers (or some similarly useful trinket), what areas have breakable rocks, which paths will be opened up by breaking said rocks, and what stages - many of them optional otherwise - they will have to traverse to reach those points. The map provides context and comprehension to SMB3's less-than-linear stage progression, turning what might have been unpredictable outcomes into concious decisions - exactly what made SMB1 take off in the first place.

>>8345928
This 'hammer principle' (giving the player specialized items with specific, but not immediately obvious, use points) extends to every other item in SMB3. One could call it a boon that SMB1's items are both universally applicable and immediately activated, but this severely limits both the types of items the player can obtain and the places where they could obtain them; every powerup must instantly improve the player's situation, lest it become a letdown. By moving most items to a separate inventory screen, summoned at the player's discretion between stages, SMB3 can get away with a wider variety of specialied items and distribution points. Finding a powerful hidden item no longer brings on just the momentary joy of better firepower, but also leads the player to ponder the best spot to use it (and potentially lose it forever), leading to a more interesting gameplay experience - an experience that benefits heavily from the contextual clues given by the map screen ("A water level? Good thing I held on to that Frog Suit...").

>>8345552
Makes it feel like more of an adventure. Even children fucking now that, but I guess if you're some sort of autistic mental cripple who views games as a formula to be learned you struggle with that

>>8345552
It's cool.

>>8345930
SMW's use of the map screen isn't quite as bold as its predecessor, but it still works in the interest of enhancing the basic SMB formula. There's no longer a single route to the end of the game - while every SMB player must go through World 1-1, 1-2, 4-1, 4-2, and World 8 if they wish to see the game to completion, SMW players are effectively handed the reigns to the game's progression after the first world, and it's highly unlikely that two SMW players will take the exact same route to Front (or Back!) Door. While none of this necessarily depends on a map screen, the map once again contextualizes this portion of the gameplay experience, as there is now a visual difference between the player's voyage to Donut Plains 2 and Donut Secret 1, as well as simple visual hints on what can be unlocked afterwards (notice how DP2 has a lot less empty space around it than DS1?). This structure has benefits for players of all skill levels; the less-skilled can pick and choose levels until they find one they can beat, mid-range players have a wide variety of alternate paths to attempt on replays, and skilled players can go for full completion runs or discover the fastest route to the final level.

Of course, none of this is to imply that SMB is somehow 'flawed' - the game is still a fantastic platformer, just one with opportunities for expansion.

>>8345552
Being able to replay levels and take alternate paths

>>8345789
meds

Are we so contrarian we have to shit on world maps now?

>>8345865
>stupidly contrarian
Its not at all. Wasn't smb1 rereleased on gameboy color with a map? I don't think it improved anything.

>>8346124
who even cares if it "improves" anything? Does it detract from anything?

>>8345556
fpbp

I bet you think the connected stages in Double Dragon were dumb and pointless too. You sound like that much of a faggot.

>>8346174
>Does it detract from anything?
It wastes time that could be spent jumping on goomba's.

>>8346079
no you need meds faggot, what sort of pretentious faggot are you that something as simple as liking something is obsolete/.

>>8345552
nothing practical,

in 3 setup you could have slightly different paths with each playthrough to keep things fresh. but the detours you can take are so minor it's fucking stupid to have them in the first place

in SMW, it's mostly just a visual aid to make it feel like more like a "journey" I guess, while still having some slight hints at various secrets. it's harmless

>>8345552
Immersion. Feels like you're living in a real world space because you can travel around and go back to visit places you've already been, like Yoshi's house. Even SMB3 doesn't give off this feeling, as it's too gamey .

>>8346319
I unironically prefer moving Mario around a little map and seeing the names of the places I'm traveling to than jumping on Goombas.
Soul...

>>8345602
Smb3 had it. Putting this here like it's some sort of innovation is revealing.

>>8346637
Then play a JRPG.

>>8346663
here you go dumb faggot

>>8346678
Let me share with you a real game that does everything right unlike your Mario RPGs.

>>8346319
Stop being contrarian for contrarian's sake.
>but muh time!
use your precious time for something else other than shitposting, then.

>>8346319
>anon boots up SMB1 on his NES
>immediately pushes start at power on as he cannot wait
>game displays number of lives for all of two seconds
>anon's face becomes red in frustration, as in that time he could have made it to the first goomba already

>>8346124
That map was purely cosmetic, retard. Mario automatically moved on it to the next stage and there were no branching paths or the ability to replay levels. How are you comparing that to SMB3's or SMW's map that actually allow you to choose where you want to go, have branching paths, replayable levels (in the case of SMW), interesting stuff like enemies on the map (in the case of SMB3).

>>8346703
>That map was purely cosmetic, retard.
Lots of games had these maps >>8346682
>or the ability to replay levels.
So by your logic SMB3 map doesn't count as once you leave a world theres no going back therefore it's not a true map.

In SMB3 it adds a lot.

The entire 2 player game is based on it, plus you get to choose which level to go first in many cases and even skip some levels when there are branching paths or when using the cloud.

Then, there is the chance of failing on your first try at the ship level and the ship flying off and landing behind a level you haven't completed, thus forcing you to play that level you skipped.

In SMW it doesn't add much, "just" the branching paths and the alt-exits which the entire game is based on. Without a world map system you'd have to backtrack through the levels by playing the levels to go get that alt exit

>>8345552
>Explain what a world map adds to the Super Mario Bros. formula.
>posts smw and not smb3
>totally not a bandwagon jumping zoomer just now getting into retro gaming though

>>8346682
Based

>>8345552
What is the problem autist?

>>8345659
Right

>>8345552
>Context and immersion without wasting a lot of time
>breather between levels
>split paths
>intrigue to get to parts on the map
>interesting gimmicks like forest of illusion or pipeland

>>8347237
This

>>8345595
>you have to change everything except what people actually wanted to be different
Thanks for taking the time to post in this thread, Miyamoto

>>8345556
fpbp

>>8345556
Correct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjKMbjStDZ0

Super Mario Bros 3 did the overworld so much better.
-Item system: you can choose what to equip before entering any level
-Roaming hammer bros that you could either fight or avoid
-Optional levels and branching paths
-Toad houses
-Slot minigame. Card minigame.
-Rare ghost ships
-Destroyable rocks
-Ridable boats
-Bridges that opened and closed in the water levels
-Airships that would fly over the map and required being chased

Mario World got rid of all these things.

>>8345552
It makes you piss your pants in sheer impotent rage

Comfyness
Non-dispersive sense of openworld
Replay a level without replay the whole game

all these years later and you can still tell someone's autism level purely by if they start screaming about mario world

>>8349754
what if they're screaming about it because they like it?

>>8349762
then theyre based :DDDDDDDD

>>8345552
Well in that one, different paths and a me I for level selection to replay maps and unlock new areas.
Explain what your intention is with this thread, because a retarded monkey could see the purpose. It's like asking why Mario has graphics and not just grey squares to represent geometry and characters.

>>8345789
I'm a Marxist and I think the workers of the super mario world should unite.

>>8346996
World is the better game so why not post it

>>8350425
>me I
Menu

>>8345552
Branching paths and secrets

>>8345596
The secrets in SMB1 were far more limited in scope. You could find a secret area within a level or skip to a different world, and that was about it. In SMW, there were multiple paths within a stage (often involving a puzzle or exploration rather than just hitting a hidden block), multiple paths through the game itself, entire hidden sections that were purely optional, Star Road, and goodies like the Top Secret Area.

I agree with people who say that SMB3 handled the world map a bit better, but SMW certainly does not waste it.

>>8346113
Someday, and you can mark my words here, there will be a small contingent of people on this site who will be fervently dedicated to the idea that the NES ruined video-games with its hand-holding graphics and definite objectives. FPS threads will similarly feature people insisting that Doom ruined the genre with its bloated weapon loadout and gimmicky card hunts, and that Wolfenstein 3D was the pinnacle of the genre.

>>8349762
This site would be a thousand times better if people would devote their autistic screeching to how much they loved video-games, but you know very well that that's not the world we live in

>>8345552
A place for Mario to walk around...?

>>8345552
An overworld would be best, wouldn't it? Dont have to RPG it up, but it could have all the advantages of mario 3, being sprawling across lands with split paths, roaming encounters, toad houses, secrets to get to, etc but would let you platform in the area. Pretty much merge the map screens with the castle hub from 64 whether star doors or multiple level exits are used (or both).

>>8345552
revistiting specific levels easily instead of having to warp to the world and then fight to it

>>8345552
Multiple exits to stages

it adds a world map, dumbass

>>8345884
Which hack is this and why there's no Antarctica?

World maps should be in every 2D platformer. Even when there's nothing to explorer or you can't even control the player's progress. It is always a net benefit.

>>8349130
Notice how after I posted that the discussion changed to which world map is better, SMB3 or SMW. Get fucked OP.

>>8351542
it's just a random pic i found lol
though maybe the inside of vanilla dome can be shaped like antarctica

>>8351542
thats a really old pic

>>8345659
These are all valid points, but SMW had a few things that still made it better.

>graphics
>levels are not all shown, they are hidden and the world changes as you explore it
>you can backtrack through worlds

That alone makes it at least as good as SMB3. They both are different, and that's a good thing since they do different things for the games they are. SMB3 with no backtracking and no item box needs the before level item select, and other manipulations since each world is it's own self-contained level. SMW is much more open ended, and each level stands alone, so an item select system isn't needed.

>>8345659
>>8351750

And I forgot to add, each level havning it's own name adds extra flavor. Exploring SMW after playing SMB1, 2 and 3 was such a magical experience back 1991. The graphic jump and aesthetic of the game while being different, but still Mario was amazing. It was magical.

I wish I could go back to that Christmas, bros...

>>8345552
I like it
Fuck off with your nihilistic bullshit

>>8345552
Cohesion of all the themes they chose for the level design

Love Super Mario Bros 3
Love Super Mario World
Love Yoshi Island

And yes I love the world map.
It adds a clear overview of the world you're part of and the levels and secrets you played and unlocked. Also it gives a comfy vibe seeing a nice island like pic related.

>>8345552
Are the levels supposed to represent the dots/squares in the map, or the path between them?

>>8351752
too frog; didn't read

>>8345552
I see it as a fancy level select. Its an artistic touch but unimportant. Certainly doesnt bother me

I'm guessing it's just the squares themselves since you can approach many levels from more than one direction on the map yet it doesn't change the level layout.

There's a semi-obscure Famicom game called Cocoron with a world map where the direction from which you approach a stage actually affects how the stage is laid out. Wonder if any other retro games have that.

>>8353213
Whoops meant the above post for you.

At certain parts, you can do stages out of order, or outright skip some stages.
Secrets.
Minigames.

>>8345556
This

>>8345556
fpbp and this
OP's anti-SMW shitpost utterly destroyed

>>8345595
It's a continuous world map in SMW, though. In SMB3 it was just screen to screen but in SMW they were all properly connected.

>>8345552
Pacing. It gives you a minute between levels to reflect or take a breath. You work at your own pace, instead of the game forcing the next level on you.

>>8345552
It gives you a chance to relax in between the heart-pumping fast paced jumping action

>>8353213
I think each spot is a stop between the levels. Maybe they are villages or important locations.

Why is SMB 3 Mario so cute and yet so cold?

>>8345552
A sense of journey and adventure. You wouldn't get it.

>>8350496
I've seen people on here state that the charged shot and slide ruined the mega man franchise. None of that would surprise me.

Level selection and it's nice to look at.
It's kinda fuckin simple

>>8358409
It's cute because of simple, but well thought out, sprite design. Plus the general whimsy of the backgrounds.

It's cold because the NES only had poop stinky colors to work with.

>>8345552
Replayability and nonlinearity.

>>8345552

>>8358409
Because small Mario looks like he's frowning under that hat. And that feeling kinda reflected with the frustration I got from loosing a cool power-up and being again vulnerable to being oneshotted

>>8353665
>There's a semi-obscure Famicom game called Cocoron with a world map where the direction from which you approach a stage actually affects how the stage is laid out. Wonder if any other retro games have that.

stages in Zelda 2 that you can enter from either direction. This was re-used a lot in other games like Getsu Fuma Den, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, etc

>>8351752
but what if I told you
you could go back
TO TWO CHRISTMASES IN ONE
https://mega.nz/file/K58wBJCQ#7he1-anmzKNosqfM8qMgOsRQlkflBhEinc3F_SgjJeA

>>8345597
>>8345918
>>8346193
>>8349224
>>8355037
The first reply is the second post, not first post.

Fucking retards.

>>8358680
>>8358409
I mean with cold as in cold-blooded. Like being merciless and such.

I'm so scared.

Has anyone have the image with big mario + goomba = little mario? (smb 3 version)