/vr/ - Retro Games

ps is cool n64 is comfy

N64 was rubbish

>>8339864
>psx graphics Vs n64 graphics the great bait
fixed it for ya

>>8339864
early 3d was not good, dont lie to yourself.

>>8339864
how is this even a debate, the N64 had far superior hardware and graphics

>>8339895
low tier bait

>>8339901
low tier cope

ultimately it doesn't really matter. 5th gen was honestly too early for proper 3D and all the games look like shit and run like ass. PS1 at least had some games that were still 2D-based that looked okay as a result, but N64 also had larger worlds to roam around in at the time, even if they were often muddy and smeared. So take your pick, they both suck.

PSX pros:
>most games run at stable framerate
>limitations added soul in unintended ways
>pleasant color palettes
>CD meant rarely compressing anything that weren't CGIs
>better geometry
>easiness of programming meant devs could use neat visual tricks and punch above their weight
N64 pros:
>antialiasing
>???

>>8339884
>early 3d was not good, dont lie to yourself

hu???
where did you get that from? I've never said it was so great job at interpretating what I've said. You don't know me so good job at assuming stuff.

Heck I didn't even say anything about 3d.

I think the psx and n64 both fucking suck, I HATE early 3d and I already did when it came out. As a pc gamer I was not blown away by those amazing golden eye graphics but I was like
>lol this is what console kids consider to be good

I've avoided that console generation like a plague. early 2d is still beautiful, all pixel art is but early 3d. yuck.

buuuuut
that's the thing (one of the things): I don't know any 2d game for the n64. for Nintendo 2d was dead and everything had to be 3d while the psx has classics like Oddworld, which has a great style (and lower res than pc of course), Castlevania, Mega Man, Hercules and other really nice looking 2d games.
On the 3d side you had the wobbling textures while n64 just had blurry textures.

I'd like to know the technical differences. some psx games still look good and that's because of art style and simply use of 2d while every n64 game looks fucking ugly but that is just my personal opinion I had to express because you fag assumed I like early 3d or even those consoles.

>>8339913
>PSX pros:
you stupid nigger, the psx was the ugliest 3d console ever. The dithering applied to everything sucked. The warping graphics took me out of the game constantly, and the load times made it unbearable

Ps had low poly soul

>>8339918
and the blurry textures, poor geometry and single digit FPS of most N64 games didn't take you out of the experience?

>>8339927
>poor geometry and single digit FPS
that describes most games from the 5th gen

>>8339932
Yes, if you only had an N64

I preferred the blurry look of N64 games, honestly as a kid I didn't really notice it much on my SD tv and it made games look better than the PS1 to me at the very least. The PS1 games looked too polygonal with sharp edges and in general the game looked pixelated which to me that meant worse graphics. I was a kid of course but that was my opinion.

>>8339934
>>>/v/
its been 25 years theres no reason to still be a console warring tard

>>8339864
>psx
Looks like a nigger running "african-jive-dance.exe" after scoring a crack rock.
>n64
Looks like grandmas dildo after being covered in vaseline.

Neither is a good choice.

>>8339939
PS1 titles didn't suffer from poor framerate as a rule. And not only that, but they had 30-50 3D titles that ran at 60FPS, while the only 3D game running at 60FPS in the N64 was F-Zero X, at the cost of sacrificing textures and geometry to the point of looking like a glorified SNES Starfox in screenshots.

>>8339864

N64, no doubt.

>SM64
>Wave Race 64
>Turok 1 and 2
>Star Fox 64
>Goldeneye 007

All fairly early games that BTFO any PSX game, graphically.

>>8339884
>>/v/

>>8339864
>n64 : god-tier 3-d/incapable of 2-d
>psx: shit-tier 3-d/shit-tier 2-d
>saturn: decent 3-d/god-tier 2-d

there was literally no reason to own a playstation.

>>8340017
Except for, you know, the actual games

>>8340025
cope: the post

>>8340029
Every kid with an N64 had the same 5 games because there weren't more.

>>8339864
N64 obviously superior

>>8339918
>I played PS1 for the first time last year
The games look great on the CRTs they're designed for and the graphics are a whole lot better than the Saturn and 32x.

>>8339934
This, man is coping on levels never seen before.

N64 was capable of larger areas and more polygons. Games generally ran like junk and the texture resolutions were abysmal, in addition to the disgusting bilinear filtering which made every game blurry as fuck. PS1 games ran better and usually had a lot more detail because of superior texture resolutions, but games had a very jittery and unstable appearance. Overall I think PS1 aesthetics are far and away better in most cases. The N64 could produce some quality 3D, like Banjo and Conker, but those titles are so few and far between.

>>8340070
It's more that it was capable of drawing larger polygons without texturing and clipping issues. It wasn't necessarily able to draw more polygons.

On N64 you could use very large polygons to build the world without eating too much into your budget, while on Saturn and PS1 you had to subdivide them after a certain point for things to look decent.

So basically PS1 and to a certain degree even Saturn can render more polygons than the N64, but N64 can draw them more correctly with a lot more modern rendering techniques and features.

>>8339932
There's significantly more 3D PS1 and Saturn games running at 60fps than there are on N64.

>>8340017
what's wrong with 2d on psx?

>>8340110
He believed memes written on /vr/. Little he realizes that most Saturn 2D games needed an expansion cart.

>>8340114
>Little he realizes that most Saturn 2D games needed an expansion cart.
Do you know specifically which 2D games need the RAM carts and which ones do not?

>>8339878
N64 had better sports games. Not up for debate.

>>8339959
Why does re2 look worse on n64?

>>8339864
They both looked like shit, but the smeary antialiasing filter the N64 applied to everything made it look better on 240p CRTs. Too many jaggies on the PS1, even if the graphics are arguably better. Yep, thats why I preferred the Nintendo that gen

>>8340430
mega compressed textures due to limited memory.

>>8340430
Does it?

Anyone got that pic of the OoT tree stump house from Kokiri forest thats shows what it would look like without the forced anti-aliasing and texture stretching? I should have saved it for threads like this. It really showed off what the N64 was doing to cheat around low resource limitations.

>>8340482
Yeah but the textures were solid instead of fluttery and the perspective was correct.

>>8340489
Just to be clear, I greatly prefer the “tricks” of the N64. Made it look much better than the seizure inducing PS1 graphics. I just wish I had saved that pic of the tree stump house when I had seen it.

>>8339895
While it's true the N64's CPU and GPU were far superior on paper, Nintendo's decisions regarding other aspects of the Hardware and choosing how to use it were, questionable at best. So much of it's GPU power was spent on the half-baked bilinear filtering, as well as anti-aliasing, perspective texture mapping and the z-buffer when no 7 year old really noticed these things on 240p CRTs that could've spent much better elsewhere, such as Polygon count, framerate, draw distance. So much of it's power was wasted on features that people today can't even agree were actually improvements.

There's also the other issue of the cartridge vs disc, Nintendo fucked up hard here, each game was more expensive as a result and they lost all their third parties to Sony, and the cartridges' pathetic storage space cost the console in other areas too, such as texture size (Random wall textures in PSX games were commonly higher resolution than large landmarks on N64) and audio quality where Nintendo foolishly invested in a high quality sound processor when the cartridges didn't have the storage space to support it.

Nintendo dropped the ball hard at a time when they had all the advantages of 2 years of hardware development, if they simply made a PSX clone that was superior in every way with no flaws in comparison we wouldn't be having this discussion.

>>8340727
>Nintendo foolishly invested in a high quality sound processor when the cartridges didn't have the storage space to support it
The N64 has no dedicated sound processor.

>>8339864
fuck you

>>8340727
>>8340787
Yeah I realized the mistake after posting, the RSP is actually pretty competently designed.

>>8340727
>Nintendo dropped the ball hard at a time when they had all the advantages of 2 years of hardware development
What? How is having to rush for 2 years to scrape together something, due to a deal going badly that created a competitor with a ready to produce product years before you, an advantage? Nintendo were making the most of an absolutely horrendous situation here, not taking advantage of some windfall. They had also seen the PSX plans being pitched to them before losing the deal, meaning they'd have 100% have been found in patent violation if they copied the PSX in any way - they had the opposite of a 'clean room' where one might be able to safely reverse engineer or accidentally overlap, that lawsuit would have been absolutely free money. Exposing the company to having to stop making a console and turn over all its profits in this situation would have killed them instantly, not saved them.

>>8340426
>No ISS Pro Evolution
Nah

>>8340727
Is this copy pasta. Seems really bad.

>>8339878
spbp
ps1 had higher resolution which looks better

>>8341168
>posts a saturn emulation screencap

>>8339864
There is no debate, the two systems are too different.
N64 have a real 3D engine, with z buffer, and texture management, but unfortunately too few RAM and an internal bus too slow to really stream big textures from the really fast cartridges.
Also, Nintendo further fucked up things by giving a slow ass micro-code to developers, keeping the fast one for themselves.

PS1 half assed the 3D rendering, but had plenty of RAM, so nice textures could be displayed. It was horrible to display 3D and took a long time to be normalized.

>>8340426
Better multiplayer games in general

>>8339864
I love the PSX way more because its what I grew up with and has lots of my favorite games on it.

However, even a PSX diehard like me will admit that some of the stylized graphics titles on N64 have aged way better, even if they were worse from a technical perspective.

>>8339913
>most games run at stable framerate
Pic related, and I say that as a PS1 fanboy.

>>8341492
You haven't played enough N64 games to experience how bad the framerate issues are. The first game (Mario 64) was about the only 3D game that ran at constant 30fps without sacrificing visuals to the point of looking like Virtua Racing. You added a bit more of graphical detail than what Mario 64 had, and games suddenly started to struggle. Rareware games infamously dropped to single digit FPS at times. It was a widespread thing, only averted by having mist out of the ass like the Turok games did.

No N64 game looks as good as Ridge Racer Type 4 and runs at the same stable framerate.
/thread

>>8341168
>higher resolution = better
imagine thinking this

>>8339913
>>most games run at stable framerate

>>8339959
>Turok
>good visuals
Are you sure?

>>8339864
At the time it was generally accepted that the n64 had the better graphics. I’ve never even heard anyone make an argument that the ps1 looked better until recently, probably because ps1 emulates and upscales better.

>>8339864
PSX by far. Tendies need to fuck off.

PSX
>Jittry 3D models that make the game look like it’s going to combust at any second, but allowed for more detailed looks
>clear video
>disc allows for bigger games and redbook audio
>larger library of games
>decent controller, analogue issues rectified with dualshock.
>easy and cheap to program for, meaning strong 3rd party support.
>console did not have any space for rom carts or other upgrades, meaning some games had to be cut down (Marvel vs Capcom games missing entire features like swapping characters mid fight, etc)
>could do 3D and 2D very well

N64
>stable models and environments but blurrier image with lots of fog
>cartridge format with smaller games and sample based music
>smaller library of games meant good first party stuff but a lack of 3rd party
>bizarre controller but with a precision analogue stick, but prone to breaking easily. D-Pad is rarely ever used
>allowed for rom expansion, though only required for three games, simply upped texture quality for others
>expensive to produce games for, carts had to be purchased from Nintendo and the console was a bit of a bitch to work with
>could do 3D well but little 2D support

Saturn
>quad polygons instead of triangles. Some 3D models look better on the Saturn in some cases (off the top of my head, RE1 has better models but that’s just me). Environments are usually good but are prone to warping and looking unstable (Burning Rangers for example)
>clear video
>disc allows for bigger games and redbook audio
>small library of games, mixed support from all parties
>fantastic controller. D-Pad is legendarily perfect and works extremely well for most of the console’s library. 3D controller is also solid
>cheap to manufacture but notoriously awful to program for, leading to less games coming out for the thing
>rom cart required for some fighting games, allowing near arcade perfect ports as well as some texture boosts for other games
>could do 2D very well and 3D reasonably well

>>8339959
So this is the power of the N64

>>8341334
>saturn
Look at the textures on the wall on the right.

>>8341550
SOUL

When I was 12, I was working for my father part-time, and was talking to one of his real employees, who was about 21yo. He said he had a PlayStation and when I asked him about N64, he said the graphics were "too cartoony."

This obviously stuck with me, and I wondered "Why did they make N64 games so cartoony?" Later, when I learned more about technology, I realized it was because of the lowres textures and gouraud shading (i.e. no textures at all).

The N64 was made for Nintendo's staple franchises (but not Metroid), and basically nothing else.

>>8341582
Some other stuff I couldn’t fit in the main comment

PSX

>CD format means long load times
>saving games requires a memory card
>strong and very large library of shooters, action games, racing, platformers and RPGs. Jack of all trades

N64:

>cartridge format means no/very little lord times
>games saved to cartridge
>library is strong on platformers/collectathons, decent sports and racing and party games. Some good FPS games thrown in. Apprently some good wrestling games too but I don’t care about that. RPGs and horror stuff were virtually nonexistent or of poor quality (Quest 64 for example. PSX had RE and Silent Hill while Saturn had the first RE and Deep Fear, etc)

Saturn:

>long load times, though games that used the expansion carts cut them down significantly
>games saved to system ram
>library is a total chaotic mess full bizarre experimental games or other left field shit. Excels at fighting games and arcade ports with less mainstream stuff like Nights or text heavy games like Sakura Wars ruling the roost. It’s definitely the most hardcore focussed of the three libraries (IIRC before FF7 came out in Japan, the Saturn was seen as the console for people who were really into gaming whereas the PSX and N64 were the casual and children’s choice. Obviously then they get steamrolled by the PSX but still)

I don't know much about the n64, need to openly admit that first. But i can tell you that the PSOne graphic and aesthetic is even compared to modern settings undefeated for me. Pre-rendered backgrounds just ignite a different type of feeling in you. And the 3D environment with their low poly look just hits different, makes games more abstract and just define games for me. Games were at their best when they were as far from the reality as humanly possible. And even pathetic modern attempts to recapture that just don't look right. Alisa the Awakening for instance? Garbage. Can't come close to PSOne games.
Need check out some N64 games too at one point, can't imagine they are too far away from what PSOne games look like

>>8341582
>sample based music
Did any N64 games use recorded music? The console was certainly capable of it, it was just a really bad idea.

>>8341629
Off the top of my head, no. I think having a sample based system wasn’t entirely a bad move because you got a lot of composers working around that and creating some great soundtracks that utilised them well, so stuff like Doom 64, Mischief Makers and super bing bing 64 have very solid and unique osts because of it

>>8341582
>console did not have any space for rom carts or other upgrades
I thought that's what the parallel port was for, the thing i always had one of these plugged into lol

>>8341550
people can't see 10 feet in front of them in real life anyway

>>8340426
Who plays sports shovelware?

>>8340430
It doesn’t which is amazing considering the compression and size limitations of a cart. It also is the only Re2 version with a built in randomizer. Not even the GameCube port got it.

>>8341668
Normalfags whose money is just as good as ours.
There were fun quirky sports titles before madden and 2k took over everything.

Psx shouldn't be able to compete but good old Nintendo really shot themselves in the foot with the vaseline filter.

Gran turismo looks better than anything on N64
Spyro looks as good as Mario 64
Jrpgs HAHAHAHAHA
fighting games HAHAHAHAH
Easy psx wins

Mario kart has sprites on backgrounds at 30 FPS
Diddy Kong racing is much better

Speed punks on psx looks comparable

You couldn't do ocarina or Majora on a psx but you couldn't do them on an N64 either, 20 FPS sucks

Mgs
Suikoden 2

Tldr
N64 on paper
Psx in the actual games

>>8339864
the best console is the one you had when you were a kid
thankfully I had both, makes me think they were my last consoles too

>>8341679
>ran turismo looks better than anything on N64
>Spyro looks as good as Mario 64

>>8339895
I agree, I don't know how people can lie to themselves thinking PS1 graphics look better than the N64. They just have nostalgia goggles for their favorite PS1 games and are still living in a time when console wars mattered and feel the need to defend the console their parents chose to buy them as a kid

>>8341168
I’ll be real with you chief, that screenshot is ugly. This is exactly why no one I knew wanted a ps1

>>8341168
>ps1 had higher resolution which looks better

No it didn't, you idiot. The N64 did. Turok 2, Perfect Dark anyone?

>>8341627
I never liked pre-rendered backgrounds and I think this small fact shaped most of my opinions of games in that era. I hated Donkey Kong Country, thought it looked like visual vomit. Then I hated many PS1 games which tended to use it more. The parts of OoT with pre-rendered backgrounds stressed me out.

>>8341760
You're just now realizing these facts?

sweet n64 graffix

obligatory

>>8341492
There's more 3D 60fps games on Saturn and PS1 than there are on N64.

>>8339864
I will take N64 blurry graphics over Playstations pixelated mess any day.

>>8342648
SOUL

>>8342658
vaseline filter... SOUL

>>8342658
Three emulator screenshots vs a hardware screenshot through one of the analogue outputs?

>>8342708
cope

>>8339864
psx because all its problems have been fixed in emulation. Nothing can fix n64 low res textures not even ai upscale.

>>8342708
They're all emulator shots.

>>8342658
dreamcast thps1/2 are the best versions, was so happy to have those as a kid

>>8341334
>>posts a saturn emulation screencap

https://youtu.be/VutzIK3DqZE?t=411

>>8340790
why? I was just asking a question ;_;

>>8341668
Wcw vs nwo revenge is better than your favourite game.
>>8340943
Aki wrestling games were better than your soccer games. N64 wrestling games have still yet to be topped to this day.

>>8341550
>>8341593
Having an n64 hooked up to an retrotink 5x, some these pics do look bad to me but the low res blurriness is at least fixable with a scaler or HDMI mod. Theres no way to fix the jittery low poly look of ps1 games

>>8341565
35 year old PC gamer who hates consoles. everyone was shitting on the n64 back then because it's
>ugly looking kids games

>>8342953
Lol at your entire life. Pc gaming fucking sucked and still sucks compared to 4 player split screen or psx/Saturn fighting games.

>>8342712

>>8339864
32-bit was my first gen so many feels here. had both systems. loved and still love the way PS1 looked back, all sharp and dreamlike, but N64 was clearly more capable at 3D in the right hands.
PS1's approach to rendering and N64's approach were both very different. i appreciate both, but N64 was superior imo.
everything on n64 was larger in scale and smoother because of how rendering worked, and late release titles like picrel were comparable to early 6th gen games.

>>8341650
The Tony Hawk games?

>>8342837
>https://youtu.be/VutzIK3DqZE?t=411 [Embed]

I'm pretty sure that the lead development console for Tomb Raider 1 was the Sega Saturn. As in, all of the player models and maps were designed for the Sega Saturns quads. Lara's TR1 model compared to her TR2 model looks really blocky. Core made Tomb Raider 2 a console exclusive to the PS1, it was on PC/ Mac as well. So the lead development console was the PS1 for the series going forward. Tomb Raider 1 on the Sega Saturn is not a bad looking game at all, despite the framerate. It really pushed the Saturn hard in large open environments. The Playstation does handle the game at a near solid 30fps. The DOS PC port is also locked to 30fps, but supported various different 3D accelerators, and even 2D ones like the Virge cards. Tomb Raider 2 for PC switched to Windows and supports direct3D. But still locked at 30fps.

>>8339878
this is objectively incorrect
I finally realized the gamecube basically had nogaems and the N64 had one of the stronger libraries

>>8344897

https://youtu.be/5DByWdoKM74?t=201

>>8344935

https://youtu.be/Ntl_pu0rwX0?t=116

>>8344935

https://youtu.be/jSpX2cIAHyc?t=22

>>8344948

https://youtu.be/fRQ3VUafF0w?t=13
https://youtu.be/JArmzOAzo_k?t=2
https://youtu.be/DA-HKezwKNM?t=130
https://youtu.be/H5-C3KM5b6A?t=70
https://youtu.be/_9umLeulVVY?t=92
https://youtu.be/8M4p5QIyaD8?t=117
https://youtu.be/UL6Z9xvt7h0?t=55

>>8341582
>cheap to manufacture but notoriously awful to program for, leading to less games coming out for the thing
Sega went bankrupt because the Saturn cost so much to manufacture. No one bought it, and even if they would have they needed a 12:1ish software attach rate just to break even on it because of how ridiculously expensive it was to make.

>>8339864
Sega Saturn

>>8339864
PS1.
/thread

>>8342658
PS1 version have more soul

>>8339864
PS1 graphics has soul.
There is a youtube channel full of modern games reimagined through the ps1 graphics aesthetics.

>>8341826
Nearly 30 years later I'm not not sure what sort of brain damage caused people to say positive things about the way that game looked.
>>8341783
They are playing the games on an emulator, where you can mitigate the insane pixelation of PSX by upscaling. N64 uses a lot of tricks to make the games look good on a CRT and does not look especially good emulated.

>>8348821
Some of the later N64 games look pretty good upscaled.

>>8341668
>Mindlessly hates sports vidya
Sucks for you, buddy. There are plenty of great sports games out there for retro consoles and retards like you keep their prices low.

>>8348841
>Anon thinks this looks good
Yikes.

>>8348862

>>8348821
> N64 uses a lot of tricks to make the games look good on a CRT and does not look especially good emulated.
Has nothing to do with CRTs. N64 textures are shit, so upscaling doesn’t make the huge difference that it does for PS1, which often buried TONS of texture detail under its low resolution.

>>8348841
i'm sure this looks great to anyone that has never seen MM on a CRT

>>8341650
>super bing bing 64 have very solid and unique osts because of it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvlMDiKCwQ0

>>8340446
NOOO DELETE THIS YOU'RE ONLY ALLOWED TO COMPARE EMULATED VERSIONS NOT THE REAL240p ORIGINALS

Vigilante 8 is a great looking multiplatform and both versions are almost identical. On PSX it has more polygonal details on cars, especially damage, as opposed to textures on N64. Projectile explosion sprites are in real color on PSX as opposed to toned monochrome on N64.

PS1

1. The jittering effect gives certain games a dreamlike and surreal quality. Vaseline filter is just plain bad.
2. The low res textures in N64 games will always look horrible
3. Much better artstyles on the PS1 overall. Games like Spyro 3 and Vagrant Story will never look bad.

One advantage the N64 had is that it didn't have to tessellate surfaces like the PS1 did to reduce warping. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuH7RDIDZN4

Obviously PS1 games could be designed around it, but some ports suffered as a result; the PS1 port of Quake II can spend hundreds of polygons rendering a closeup of a wall.

The N64 looks objectively better but most people will prefer the PS1 because "muh soul" and because its flaws are easier to fix with emulators.

>>8345403
Only on Saturn can you get infinite planes at 60fps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJsr2j9ghOA

>>8349861
Yeah bro just ignore all the video comparisons posted in this thread.

>>8349861
because they dont understand that the only other place you could see texture filtering was on hardware accelerated PC's and that was breakthrough tech at the time and very desirable. Somewhat like Ray Tracing now. The meme that it was an undesireable effect only to cover up low res textures cant explain why openGL and 3dfx also used it / the PC world embraced it with open arms as a huge leap forward from blocky textures.

>>8349906
> The meme that it was an undesireable effect only to cover up low res textures cant explain why openGL and 3dfx also used it / the PC world embraced it with open arms as a huge leap forward from blocky textures.
PC games using OpenGL and 3DFX cards had significantly better textures than most N64 games. In that kind of scenario texture filtering is fine. In the N64's kind of scenario better textures without filtering would look better in most cases.

>>8349918
QED

PS1 and PS2 were addictive blending, post processing framebuffer machines, N64 struggled with that stuff, glows looked dead and dull, motion blur effects were good, the last SF boss with the tentaticles had some amazing effects that the PS1 couldn't do.

>>8343035
>Flagship game vs afterthought port

PS1 games always seemed to have much better lighting - it was mostly very flat on N64.

>>8350657
Yes, a good game to compare is the Mission Impossible, the light on the PS1 is much better.

>>8343573
AND DON'T FORGET THE JOKER!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu1KM9HMpso

>>8349868
based

>>8341968
No, WDC and Beetle Adventure Racing look better. However, that's irrelevant as GT has inifinitely more content and will get you stuck to the screen for tens of hours.
>>8342708
cmon bro. i think dc is emulated though cause it looks much sharper than even xbox for no reason.

>>8339913
stop playing on emulators faggot.

>>8351332
The Dreamcast has very sharp output from VGA, and I believe the Xbox adds post-processing blur, so that may account for the difference.

>>8339940
Of those options I'm still goin with ps1

You're sorta right though this wasn't the best era for games. The best of these were the arcade ports and shmups

I really didn't mind the racing either

>>8351332
>WDC
Doubt
>Beetle Adventure Racing
Not even funny

>>8352504
Thank emulator !