/vr/ - Retro Games

Too many variables. Your screen is probably dogshit, have you done any testing with it? Even if you had a Pi 4 with runahead, you might only save a couple of frames.

Personally, I've never seen the point in a Pi. Too much setup hassle, just drag an old rig out of the basement or something.

>>8287545
I can't connect my og hardware to my 50" HD TV without even more hassle, plus the pi is small and unobtrusive and doesn't need a flashcart.

It's convenient and cheap for something that sees occasional use

>>8287542
if you're an input lag autist then your choices are og hardware, mister or an apu prebuilt that can run retroarch with runahead.

>>8287542
>Also post generic pi tips and hacks
https://retropie.org.uk/docs/Input-Lag/

You sure it's not the TV? (maybe try the Pi on a PC monitor)
Also runahead is awesome but not sure if an old Pi can handle it.

>>8287542
If you are complaining about input lag but aren't willing to stop playing on an lcd, you need to go back

>>8287542
>How to make a Pi good
Get a job, throw it out, and buy something that's not shit.

>>8287715
See this? This is why individual intelligence is going down.

Just save money until you can afford MISTer, if really you are a retro enthusiast and want the lowest input lag without buying all the OG consoles and games, MISTer is the only viable option.

>>8287620
I've had the TV set to game mode and it feels responsive with other consoles, so I don't think so

>>8287786
Does the mister have a viable psx core, and output filters?

>>8287542
Anecdotal evidence, but I played through Spyro 1 on a pi4 over HDMI to a cheap 50” TCL smart tv and I didn’t notice any major lag.

>>8287786
There's really no point in a MiSTer if you're an LCD using pleb. You'll get comparable latency with a Pi 4 and runahead, and support for more consoles.

MiSTer is for people who care about accuracy, and people who care about accuracy have actual controllers and actual CRTs.

>>8287797
>>8287802
Unironically what I was looking for thank u

In an ideal world I'd have a crt and my consoles hooked up, but it's not worth it for the two or three times a year I get to seriously play

>>8287816
casualfag

>>8287542
Pi 4 will be better on a digital signal yes
also make sure you are using a decent controller with low latency

>>8287778
God advice never made anyones intelligence go down champ. I heard huffing tidepods will do that though.

>>8287542
>CRT
You can plug in a specific composite cable into the audio port in most of the Raspberry Pi models. Pi 4 doesn't do this well, but the Pi 3 models can display composite just fine. You just have to tweak some settings in the config file, but it works.

>>8287997
This. The pi4 is faster yes but if you ever intend on using composite video the pi3 is the better choice.

>>8288062
I think pi3 is just better for analog output and if you get pic related it looks fantastic for arcade games
However the sbc is limited by what it can play I think
But OP doesnt want CRT so I would recommend pi4

I was playing original diablo on a rpi4 earlier today. I've played openmw on it. I've played stardew valley. I've briefly emulated with the pi4 and had no noticeable issues running Ocarina or Majora's Mask on it. Make sure you get a fan for it. Baby runs hot and will throttle without one.

I tried the pi3 plus and I still had massive lag. Dunno if the Pi4 is better, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. If you've got a PS3, WiiU, or an Xbox one or series, just put retroarch on it (don't even have to hack the Xbox). Or:
>I don't have room for an extra TV and I like my massive flat screen
If that's the problem, and not the consoles themselves, get a decent upscaler like a GBS-c or retrotink mini. Makes old games look great, and almost no lag (from the upscaler which is where most of the lag comes from).

>>8288242
What's your setup?

>>8288413
rpi4 4gb with twisteros. some kind of tv that came with the place. ds4 controller. successful emulation required installing and using emulation station, or whatever that app is for a retropie. little jank running it, gotta do a small command and run it a second time, last time I used it.

>>8287542
This Anon >>8287620 posted great tips. I'd just like to go further: RetroPie is more about tradition than anything else. Nowadays, there are friendlier options.

I suggest going for Batocera, Lakka and Recalbox. Also, the Pi2 isn't very good. I had one, sold it. Having a Pi4 is better for using run-ahead and having better emulators for 4th gen and below. Keep in mind: wanting a Raspberry Pi for anything 5th gen and beyond is (at least for now) a joke and it will require overclock to give you mediocre results; in that case, stick to x86_64 with no second thoughts.

Picrel is a photo I took of my RPi4 outputting to a LCD television. I was running the 240p Test Suit (available for several systems) and got those results. OS is Batocera Linux, TV is in game mode, resolution output is the same as the TV's screen, runahead is enabled. All settings were adjusted inside the system, through the native GUI, no text file edits.

>>8288437
Excellent advice anon, cheers

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag

Found this website which has a database of input lag measured in televisions. Maybe it can help you for a further purchase or just for comparison.

>>8287542
You might want to consider a cheap android box booting EmuELEC from a microsd. Performance is on par with the RPI4 plus you can remove the card, boot into android and use it as originally intended.

>>8287542
OP, if you're willing to pay a little extra, I'd suggest looking into a used Dell OptiPlex Micro or a Lenovo ThinkCentre equivalent. They're full x86, are small and kawaii despite being enterprise machines, and they WILL BTFO a Pi4. They're good for up to light 6th gen, too. Install Lakka or something similar, and you got run-ahead and shit.

>>8289946
I'm curious about EmuELEC, but I don't have an android box. How about its performance and input lag?

The Pi is really not that good for games. I really don't understand why people use it for this. You can get a better-performing x86 PC for the same price or cheaper. Besides a faster processor, It can have more RAM, a GPU that's not a joke, a SATA-connected hard drive, real USB 3 and ethernet. Ebay and Craigslist are filled with cheap old computers that can outperform a Pi 4.
The only times you might want a Pi are when you need super low power, or you need something super small. When you're hooking it up to a TV to play retro games, you likely need neither.

>>8290262
Mate, the pi is an exceptional emulation machine for the cost

>>8289975
This looks like it might be the best option, bit I'm struggling to find one of these micro PCs with an HDMI port, and adding a converter is probably going to re introduce all that input lag

Is there expansion cards for these with HDMI support?

>>8290370
If they don't have HDMI, they have DisplayPort, which converts directly to HDMI without any lag since it's digital to digital. Just get a DisplayPort to HDMI cable, and you'll be good.

>>8290374
Can you humour a retard and tell me why we have display port if we already have HDMI and they're pretty much equivalent?

>>8290378
HDMI is an HDTV standard that you can use on PC. DisplayPort was 100% made for PC and supports all kinds of resolutions, not to mention it can be combined with data transfer, which is what Thunderbolt and USB-C allow.

>>8290381
Thank u mr nerdman

>>8290378
display port has higher bandwidth as far as I'm aware, well at least it was before HDMI 2.1, not sure if it's similar or not now

>>8290378
Just standarization stuff. Same reason why we have like 4 versions of USB these days.

>>8290262
Used. That's the only way that you can get an x86 with similar specs at the same price. x86 cpus are fundamentally more complex and therefore more expensive to produce. All x86 computers at the same tier about twice the price. The rock pi x is potentially the one exception, but the cpu is weaker, and the higher end models are more expensive.

And the rpi4 can emulate the gamecube and wii. It'll be hard to find a cheap, used x86 computer that can emulate beyond that, such as being able to run ps2/ps3 or xbox

>>8290271
This. Plus, the convenience is excellent, I can just set it next to my TV and have a dedicated and streamlined gamepad-only experience. Also, I can easily carry it with me to other places. Saves me from boredom when work stucks me in some hotel room far away from home.

Besides, why would I dedicate a whole gaming PC for that? Isn't it too overkill? Like buying a Lamborghini just to drive to you neighbor's house.

>>8287542
Easy--use Retroarch with Run Ahead set to 1-3 frames. Bye bye noticeable lag.

>>8290874
Don’t get me wrong dude, a PC is infinitely better at emulation

>>8290765
>And the rpi4 can emulate the gamecube and wii. It'll be hard to find a cheap, used x86 computer that can emulate beyond that, such as being able to run ps2/ps3 or xbox

Man, I'm a Pi lover here, but that's stretching the truth. A RPi4 will emulate Gamecube/Wii as in "it boots the game". Performance is awful and will require extreme overclock to be "acceptable". As a rule of thumb for now, if anyone wants to play 5th-gen and above, they should stick to x86_64. Exception may be Ps1, since a Pi4 can handle it well, but not perfect.

>>8287997
I was messing around with my pi3 last week over composite and am genuinely surprised by the image quality
Only real flaw with the pi3 is that anything past 4th gen is not worth the time, performance just sucks

>>8290886
Neither me, nor anyone here, is saying otherwise. But a Pi is very good for older systems. My PC handles heavier stuff. For the lighter ones, I really see no difference between PC and Pi.

>>8290894
stop emulating above native resolution then
>>8290901
I'd disagree to a certain extent but it does a fine enough job, especially for the price, I mean I use a pi3b+ hooked up to my CRT through RGB SCART specifically for arcade games and it runs great for the most part

>>8290378
The real reason is that Displayport was made because up until recent versions of HDMI, it had much higher bandwith, plus (the big one) unlike HDMI, doesn't have licensing fees for using the connector.

>>8290765
>>8290894
>>And the rpi4 can emulate the gamecube and wii. It'll be hard to find a cheap, used x86 computer that can emulate beyond that, such as being able to run ps2/ps3 or xbox
>Man, I'm a Pi lover here, but that's stretching the truth. A RPi4 will emulate Gamecube/Wii as in "it boots the game". Performance is awful and will require extreme overclock to be "acceptable". As a rule of thumb for now, if anyone wants to play 5th-gen and above, they should stick to x86_64. Exception may be Ps1, since a Pi4 can handle it well, but not perfect.
Perhaps. Pilab, one of the forces behind TwisterOS, had some videos where he was emulating gamecube games and things seemed to work well enough. Can't find the channel or videos anymore, though.

>>8290971
I do hope for that, really. Nowadays, devs optimize jack shit. If their program runs slow, they think: "Nah! Not my fault! This 3090 RTX is probably ancient tech, the end-user gonna have to wait a couple more of years for a better hardware to handle my code". Who knows what it could do if someone tried to tailor code for it.

>>8291007
Well, to be fair, not everyone is Themaister, the dude who created the ParaLLEl-RDP plugin that pretty much saved N64 emulation. Prior to him, we had the Angrylion plugin, which could run just about every single N64 game and fix almost all their issues, but you needed a bleeding edge CPU just to have an asscrack of a chance to run it at full speed, and when people asked emudevs if it could be made faster or make it run the really heavy games fullspeed, emudevs just went "lol get a better CPU or wait for better CPUs". Then comes this dude who performed arcane black magic wizardry and ported the entire fucking plugin to run on the GPU through Vulkan compute shaders. Literally nothing like this had ever been done before, at least in emulation, and admittedly it took him some time to perfect it, but now we can run every N64 game with just a modest CPU and GPU, as long as it supports Vulkan.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't expect just any dev to do something that crazy. It takes a particular kind of genius and/or obsessive autism to completely rewrite emulation code and make it target a specific platform a la ZSNES, not to mention doing so means losing portability, as in now your code is stuck on that platform and cannot easily be used on others.

>>8291224
Great insight! Thanks!

>>8290139
Not emuelec but quick overview of performance/capabilities.
The ever inventive chinese are selling boxes preloaded with games. Look at reviews for 'Pawky Box' and 'Super Console X' for more info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH0iyjS_stg

>>8289946
Can I get a quick rundown on these? I'm curious about these aliexpress android boxes but I want to know how flexible they are in terms of custom roms and how I can know if they are compatible or not.

>>8289946
Isn't android input polling notoriously bad though?

>>8291313
>>8290139
For ~$100 usd you can get a ready to go bundle with 2 controllers, the android box, and 50,000 preloaded games. Not much over the cost of the components.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXfultzENjY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzxAl2jyFdg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47VB-2kXgF0

>>8291415
>android input polling
I think it's ok but my standards are low.
Try something on your phone/tablet & see if it's good enough for you

>>8291304
I've watched it. Thanks, anon! Nice to know those options, though I found them very similar to a RPi4, performance wise. However, as the video told, there are higher-end TV boxes, so things might get even better.

However, about lag, I have two questions:

1. Audio lag. In a few game footages, but not all of them, I noticed audio lag. Does this really happen or it was a problem during video capture?

2. Input lag. Seems like those video boxes only accept bluetooth controllers? If so, how does the input latency behave?

>>8287542
You want to have your cake and eat it too. You can't.
You either get a powerful enough machine to set up run-ahead or you get a monitor that has less lag than your TV. A pi won't cut it for the former, and you don't seem to want to part with your massive TV. Assuming you've already set up game mode.

>>8287639

>>8292602
>only accept bluetooth controllers?
I've notices lag at times with a bluetooth controller. It may be the controller itself.
The boxes usually have 2 usb inputs. Wired or wireless controllers that come with a dongle work fine.
re: the audio. Who knows The emulators have a lot of settings that can be tweaked. One may fix whatever you heard.

>>8290262
>The Pi is really not that good for games
I've been using a 3B for years now for NES, SNES, GB, GBC, GBA, Outrun, Duke 3D, CaveStory, and Doom. It's fantastic for all of these. I also use it for PSX and it's okay, but not much more than okay.

>>8293602
All that stuff is super low spec. You could emulate those on anything.

>>8287542
>Pi
for emulation i would just get a refurbished office pc instead of rpi

>>8294692
But they're games, ain't they? Most important, they are retro games, which are, you know, the point of interest here in this board. So, if it runs retro games, then why would you argue in favor of newer stuff? This is /vr/ stuff for /vr/ dwellers.

>>8294779
If you're basing this on what's good for /vr/ stuff only, you're still missing a lot of good platforms. You already mentioned it isn't great for PSX games and it's far from the only other system you might want to emulate.

>>8294779
So are Saturn, N64 and Dreamcast, and the older Pis struggle with those. Hell, even PCs sometimes struggle with Saturn.

>>8294804
>>8294806

Agreed. But there's middle ground between heaven and hell. That's why I play the heavier emulators on my PC, but everything else on my Pi. If, someday, the underpowered Pi become better, then I'll also use it to play Saturn and N64. The reason I use a Raspberry Pi (or would use any dimilar alternative) is because they have similar convenience to consoles. I owe my balls to emulation on PC, but it's not exactly what I was looking to replace old consoles, not that it's a demerit.

>>8294848
>But there's middle ground between heaven and hell

Indeed. It's called a used office micro desktop.

>>8289975
I was thinking about this, is there a way to use a game controller as a mouse on a PC? I kinda want to avoid having to keep a mouse or keyboard stashed just to click the emulator icon

>>8294853
For you, sweetie.

>>8294886
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XONKVZf0m6o

Try doing that with a Pi.

>>8294919
My God, you still don't get it. I didn't buy a Pi to replace my PC, but to compliment it. If I'm going to deal with all the cons of a PC, I might as well maximize its pros and go for a gaming PC. And, well, that's what I did. However, in my living room, I set up my Pi and have a small, versatile, fast and responsive gamepad-only experience. Yes, I do not game with anything over a Ps1 using my Pi, but I was never looking for that. Whoever wants a Pi, need to know it's limited and learn to make the most out of it. It's almost common sense now that the Pi is limited, and you need to live in la-la-land to think it can replace a PC right now. That's not what Pi owners think.

>>8294952
Did you even watch the fucking video?

What the fuck does a Pi offer you that that doesn't?

>>8287778
You being poor doesn't make any of us any less intelligent. It just makes you poor.

>>8294952
I'm a retard, but YOU're the retard: The Post

>>8294973
I watched the first part, when he show the PC. Performance-wise, I know it's better.

Now, for my (remember, my =/= your) reasons:

* Even though the Optiplex is small, a Pi is even smaller. That counts for me, and already helped me plenty to move it between places, mostly travels and visits to friends.

* The shit is sturdy, really. I've had (and, damn, still have) my fair share of hardware problems with PCs. The only one I muster the patience to take care of is my gaming PC, I really don't want to have a second one giving me the occasional trouble or a broken part. This never happened with the Pi (to be fair, didn't happen with any ARM device I have).

* I have no trouble with hardware compatibility and everything works stably and fast. Granted, it's obvious, I know - a Pi is closed architecture, predefined specs. A PC doesn't have that luxury, it's just one of its cons, but it doesn't make it bad (on the contrary).

* I can easily swap SD cards to modify the OS I'm using, in an isolated way. I really don't like multibooting on the same hard drive on PC, specially if one of the OSes is Windows.

Now, that I humored you, let's stop talking about me. I'd like to, in return, ask you a single question:

* Why do YOU want ME to stop using a Pi and get a second (and worse) PC? I'm curious, since I don't see how I am affecting you or your PCs.

>>8287997
>You can plug in a specific composite cable into the audio port in most of the Raspberry Pi models. Pi 4 doesn't do this well

What is the difference between Pi3 and Pi4 regarding composite?
The port is there on both?

>>8294973
Diff anon. That looks pretty sweet, but the portability of the rpi4 is really nice. I can literally fit it in my pocket, with my case. I'm living abroad, so I could get kicked out of the country at any time--or might want to leave at any time. Weight counts, so does availability, price points, and accessory options. There is inertia and a primacy effect with the rpi. Literally had no idea that dell produced a device like this. The Pi foundation has earned a degree of trust from me, and I expect their capabilities will improve as the software and firmware matures.

Personally, I'm using my rpi4 as a primary computer and mostly using my phone to game. My fuck-expensive laptop broke, and I didn't want to shell out another grand for one of similar performance, and the local laptops have a sizeable import tariff on them, inflating the cost.

It's not the best device, but it's well-represented and well-supported. It's definitely improved over the nearly two years that I've had it, and it's sure to get better. It's experimental tech.

>>8295313
>>8294973
Oh, and besides. It's like $100 cheaper. It would be nice to run ps2 games, but there is a huge catalogue of other games it can run. With box86 and improvements to the drivers, I know that it's ability to run games are going to improve, if the projects aren't abandoned. And with how affordable arm cpus are, I don't see that happening

>>8295041
>a Pi is even smaller
And just got smaller still with the release of the Zero 2.

>>8295041
>Why do YOU want ME to stop using a Pi and get a second (and worse) PC? I'm curious, since I don't see how I am affecting you or your PCs.

Well, I have a Pi3 sitting under my TV and it's... it's great for 4th gen and... isn't much better for 5th gen than the Pi2.

You asked if the Pi4 will be better. Yes, it will.
Would I use a Pi4, having owned a Pi3? No, I would just bite the bullet and spend the extra cash for something more capable.

>>8296853
I understand, but I have already bought a RPi4, more than a year ago. Having previously owned a Pi2 and Pi3+, I can seenthe improvements, though they're just small leaps compatible with the price range of the board. Unfortunately, emulation of older systems is heavily dependant of single core prowess, with a high value of instructions per clock. This contrasts with the modern architectures of CPUs (Pi included), in which the load is shared among multiple cores. So, even with a new release, the better specs don't fully translate to better emulation of CPU-intensive cores. I know this isn't common sense, and people get frustrated because the Pi still can't handle some emulators well, and judge the entire system based on that. As a rule of thumb, as long as you don't need anything more intensive than a Ps1, then a RPi4 might suit your needs. Otherwise, stick to the PC, where the emulation is still unbeatable.

>>8287802
>You'll get comparable latency with a Pi 4 and runahead, and support for more consoles.
retard

>>8295041
I'd like you to kill yourself, that's about the only thing I'm hoping for at this point. Faggot.

>>8297392
Ha! I must be brightening your day, am I not? Don't be shy and let's be friends!

>>8295230
>What is the difference between Pi3 and Pi4 regarding composite?
I think it is video drivers or something. I tried using both a Pi 3b+ and Pi 4, but I had display issues with the Pi 4 regarding composite. I'm not the only one who has or had issues with composite on their Pi 4's. Many people will use an older Pi instead.

>>8289975
>They're good for up to light 6th gen
You're out of your ass!

>>8298592
see >>8294919

>>8298595
Okay, nice video. I'm glad to be proven wrong. Thanks, anon.