/vr/ - Retro Games

the superior Yamaha OPL.
https://youtu.be/tfzg2vuqia0
https://youtu.be/ibrAagaj_Dw

>>8251279
Prefer for what? For building a system with low part count the choice is obvious. For building a system with 8 channel sound the choice is obvious. For good sound the choice is obviously neither.

>>8251279
that sounds RAD af

>>8251329
that sounds RAD af

>>8251329
pretty good for a cut-rate alternative but can't say it's in the running for me. imagine having only two operators per channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGcNsd5gHN8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQeUm1VwCX0

>>8251279
This is a discussion that is way over the kind of people you'll find here. Nothing but posers and nintendo soiboys. I'd like to point you to a proper place but in all honesty, I am not sure where that would be. For whatever it's worth, I think 2151 sounded a bit more pleasing. Good luck, anon

>>8251279
SID

>>8253265
SID doesn't do FM, it does ringmod and oscillator sync only.

>>8252868
The OPL3 has a 4op mode but the algorithms are lacking.

>>8253424
yeah the OPL3 is interesting, it's probably a cut above overall with the highly layered sounds it can make but it can't do the classic 4-op sounds. not something I currently find interesting to work with, but maybe someday I'll delve more into what all those waveforms can do.

>>8252868
Ys II Special sounds pretty similar to 4op, at worst it's just a little more chip-like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvjBBOVo2EU

>>8253424
OPL doesn't even have detune IIRC, instead it just has separate vibrato control for carrier and modulator. this is a cool effect and probably better than detune for 2 ops, but it has diminishing returns and detune is more powerful with more ops.

As much as I love the YM2612, I think the Mega Drive's biggest fault was that they skipped out on the YM2151

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U_RLzIxHOU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQHQwwLaofo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxKQbWf6Fm0

But of course, neither of them was the YM2610

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l84GAd784is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYQGCOEH8HU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQPGtzmStq4

>>8253302
>what would you like to eat, shit or turds
>ill have a burger
>NOOOO!!!! you can only eat shit or turds

>>8253582
>Thread about Waffles and Pancakes
>I LIKE CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES

>>8253582
if the SID could do FM you'd be jerking off over it, guaranteed.

>>8253625
Fuck no, it sounds horrible. Look how FM chip ruined Commando's theme.
https://youtu.be/5EEB6xy3pJA?t=241

>>8253671
Rob Hubbard didn't compose that with FM in mind, not that he ever got as good at FM composing as he was on the SID. Then again, most western composers burdened with GEMS never got around how shit it was, with the notable exception of Tommy Tallarico.

>>8253730
>Then again, most western composers burdened with GEMS never got around how shit it was

Only the default patches were crap. Most western composers were busy COMPOSING MUSIC, and very often they didn't even know anything about the hardware constraints. They composed a tune, sent off the midi file to the programmers, and they had done their job.
You needed Jarre level autists to go as far as experimenting with the FM chip to get the best instruments.
Also the default patch did some things right, some games like Toejam & Earl 2 sound like real instruments (they released real instrument versions of the songs and a lot of them are near identical, the CD versions only have different drums and extra sax solos... and the drums aren't always better).

>with the notable exception of Tommy Tallarico
add Howard Drossin to that list.

>>8251279
I'm simply more familiar with the 2612, since most of the FM stuff I've written has been targeted to the Genesis, or machines with related chips (the 2608 seen in late PC-98 machines or the 2610 used in the Neo Geo).

>>8251329
>superior
>OPL
nah, stop that
it has this characteristic buzzy sound to it, it's not great

>>8253424
whenever I've done OPL3 music, I just played the same notes on two channels because bothering with 4op mode was a pain
having all those channels is nice, because I can do that for everything to thicken up the sound, or add echo effects or whatever

>>8253730
most western composers were were astonishingly bad at making instruments and I don't know why -- if you opened Deflemask or BambooTracker or VGM Music Maker or something right now and started making instruments, you'd do better, and it's not like the instrument editor in those three programs listed was more advanced or easier than the one GEMS provided
even Tallarico's instrument choices are fucking ass

>>8253754
>most western composers were were astonishingly bad at making instruments and I don't know why

They weren't making instruments. They had a keyboard hooked up to a computer and composed songs that way. Then they sent off the Midi file to the software house, and that was that. The (sound) programmer had to figure out what to do with that, and usually they just dropped it into GEMS. Only very few ones were conscious enough about their work that they learned how to program their FM patches to get better music out of the system.

Also keep in mind that nearly all emulators emulate the genesis sound wrong. The real hardware had a lot of filters and oddities (some of which GEMS used) which took decades to get right, and some aren't even emulated today at all. On real hardware, a lot of those songs didn't sound that bad, especially for the time. It's just that a bunch of others sounded 100x better and you are expecting everything to sound that good.

>>8251279
2151 has a more authentic feel for period games and arcade machines. I agree 2612 is probably better from a modern perspective though. They're both excellent chips and testify to a time when Japan led the word in FM synthesis.

I'm not a musician or producer, but from a listener's perspective I obviously prefer the YM2612. Most of the games Sega and Konami made on the Genesis/Mega Drive have great soundtracks. Masaya and Tecnosoft also hired great producers for their games. I love the works of Yuzo Koshiro, Michiru Yamane, Noriyuki Iwadare and Tomomi Ootame, just to name a few

>>8253764
GEMS wasn't the end of the world, but even its best compositions don't match the best the system has to offer, and it shows when otherwise great composers on other systems are struggling in comparison to their Japanese counterparts. I noticed "that sound" it has on my Mega Drive in the 90s and early 00s, way before I knew what the fuck GEMS was, or FM synthesis for that matter. Games like Garfield - Caught in the Act make the mediocrity of its instrumentation into all but an atmospheric mood.

>>8253730
There's not a single FM tune that's better than C64, not in the west not in japan. Prove me wrong. FM synth is cancer, most FM tracks sound like fart or door bells while the SID sounds much more gritty.

>>8253814
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YpPZhu9OII
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iic_FCyOkM

>>8253827
soulless sloppa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k86tGq3kbV0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZvdHvtC87I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbwFqWBn2C0

>>8253671
he says right there in the vid that he didn't put any effort into arranging the song for the chip and just made a really basic version, use some common sense. anyway if the SID could do FM it would sound completely different from the sine wave FM in yamaha chips and would just be used as a glitch effect like the ringmod, and it would add character to some tracks.

>>8253814
here are some simple tunes I made in deflemask using custom patches. I’m not good at trackers so I’m not using any effects columns but I have some patches that lend themselves very well to sweeps and things like that, which is where the real virtuosity comes in for a synth-based chip. the stuff I have sounds more like basic instrument samples but I’m happy with it anyway.

https://vocaroo.com/13XDFJAcD9oC
https://vocaroo.com/1eKPxvJqiOAW

>>8253836
SID is nice and all but low-polyphony pulse waves really sound samey for me after a while. I only like the really textured acrobatic stuff like Follin's soundtracks or recent demoscene stuff.

>>8253754
iirc western devs got little to no documentation on yamaha FM chips. thr few bits of documentation they got was badly translated.

the best sounding western genesis game is probably mega turrican.

>>8253836
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqdCMODVGXE

>>8253907
it's the unreleased Time Trax, actually

>>8253881
>didn't put any effort into arranging the song for the chip and just made a really basic version, use some common sense.
I can't imagine the commando music or any SID music being improved by FM sounds. FM is weaker and more subdued sounding than SID's oscillator, and ringmod is less subtle than Fmod too. I can't name a FM music that sounds as raw as C64 music.
>it would add character to some tracks
Or subdue the whirring noise that the SID is loved for.
>here are some simple tunes I made in deflemask using custom patches.
Those are well written tunes, but just like most of the FM tracks I know, they sound boring.

>>8253894
It's the opposite for me. FM synths sound like cheap mellotrons in my ears. There's a reason why the SID is more widely loved and highly sought after than the Megadrive YM chip. Few people miss the Ad Lib.

>>8253907
you don't really need docs when you have GEMS lol
you could fiddle with the knobs for like ten minutes live with a MIDI keyboard, it's super easy and what GEMS was originally designed to do
the big issue is that the people writing the music were almost never actually there with the hardware since GEMS' flexibility meant that you could hire out someone to make a MIDI instead of someone with any knowledge of game music
that data would then get sent to the guy in charge of implementing it in game
he'd just attach the pre-defined FM patches to match the instruments used in the MIDI sequence and call it a day

>>8253949
few people miss the adlib/OPL chips with their harsh and buzzy sound, while tons of people miss the sound of the 2612 and 2151
even better OPL music is still harsh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJd9jiRiLJQ

the 2609
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLOqRHi927g

>>8253234
After all your conceitedness, I was really hoping for something more than "I liked this one more".

>>8254254
I don't know, man. I like the Princess Maker 2 OST.

imo the FM chip of the Sharp X86 sounds the best

>>8254380
That's the YM2151. I think Ys III sounds the best on that.

>>8253596
>faggot tries to impose his own rules
>gets shat on by chads

>>8253625
Not sure why you're fascinated with me jerking of but whatever gets it up for you

The YM2612 is the peak of video games.

>>8253671
arcade original still sounds better.

>>8254835
good but second to ym2151 + sample chip.

>>8254853
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKwm_tf3RVs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5z2Qu6efAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQXSQPokSoc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXJYEJN8w9c

>>8254254
>tons of people miss the sound of the 2612 and 2151
>even better OPL music is still harsh
I literally said not many people miss them. They're much more fascinated by C64 covers of those arcade games with yamaha chips. That doesn't sound harsh at all.

>>8254919
Speak for yourself, I like c64 compositions but FM instruments are something in my book.

>>8253949
>I can't imagine the commando music or any SID music being improved by FM sounds
yeah see >>8254849, dumb eurofag

>>8254926
C64 tracks on YouTube have more views than yamaha tracks.

>>8254932
>ad populum
damn you retarded, but yeah generic c64 eurodance shit is hip nowadays

>>8254930
Nah it's really lame. The C64 music has achieved a legendary status despite merely being a port of the arcade original, not many people care about the original arcade music.

>>8254938
yeah see >>8254938, enjoy your generic keygen music i guess, I prefer music that actually fits the game

>>8254936
When a $100 computer that plays games from cassette tapes is more popular than widely available arcade cabinets, they must be doing something right.
>generic c64 eurodance shit is hip nowadays
>generic
The euros shaped the 70s and 80s music industry, well through the late 90s. Giorgio Moroder caused an international sensation never seen before. It's no wonder people love their music to this day. The raw sounding ring modulated SID chip fits their composition style better than yamaha midi chips, those chips were designed for soft and soothing sounding elevator music.

>>8254954
>widely available arcade cabinets
they aren't more available than poorfag home systems at all, and normalfags don't bother emulating the lesser known stuff.
keep coping with ad populum and generic keygen yuropoor music while I enjoy superior FM

>>8254968
There were only 17 million C64 units sold, and not all of those were bought by people who played many games. You could find old arcade cabinets everywhere, even in a small African town, the sega genesis was about 5 times as popular as the C64, and the PC-88 was the standard computer in Japan. Yet, the popularity of SID chip eclipses them all.

>>8254993
>only 17 million
>only
lol cope retard
>the sega genesis was about 5 times
only 30m, not even twice as much, keep seething
>Yet, the popularity of SID chip eclipses them all.
Post a c64 music video with more views than this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-i8HYi1QH0 i'll be waiting, retarded ad populum yuropoor

>>8255003
>only 30m
Not counting the clones, emulators, and brazilian repros. The MD is the most cloned and emulated system probably next to the NES.
>Post a c64 music video with more views than my meme music
Pass. C64 compilations get more views.
>ad populum
That fallacy can't really be applied in this case. Yamaha FM chips could be found almost everywhere, the sega genesis and arcade systems were marketed heavily and played by more people, they should be the more beloved system. Also you can't tell if the views translate to more people listening to the music, or fewer people listening to those music multiple times. If it's the later, there's a good reason why.

>>8255060
>b-but muh clones!!!
>b-b-but muh compilations!!
>b-b-but muh conjecture!!

>>8254272
That would contradict my own statement. Besides, I’m still right. The discussion is exceedingly poor. I don’t know what makes you think I’d waste my arguments on you. I find that notion rather amusing.

>>8255068
>conjecture
Really a bad faith discussions. Imagine trying to convince someone that sonic isn't one of the 3 most popular video game characters and chinese genesis clones and emus dont exist.

>>8255102
>b-b-but sonic doesn't count!!!
>c64 emus don't exist!!
this level of cope jesus, yurofags must be the most pathetic people in this board, cry some more to this banger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC-B3Q0cRrY

>most viewed c64 music is some shitty eurojank Commando remix
c64bros... we lost...

I fucking hate how europeans always added their own music to ports. It's retarded.

>>8255089
If you can't back up your talk, just leave with your tail between your legs. Start writing now, audio nerd. Or be ashamed having only empty insults.

>>8255134
>still using FM synth in 1992
Man that's pathetic. Sounds like the average megadrive music.
>b-b-but sonic doesn't count!!!
It counts as an ad populum argument.
>c64 emus don't exist!!
Practically only enthusiasts play them.

>>8255138
nice /v/ meme.

>>8255287
>still using FM synth in 1992
makes sense as FM music is timeless, while SID music is remembered as just silly generic keygen eurojank trash.
>It counts as an ad populum argument.
cope harder, you are the one obsessed with youtube views and even then you were proved wrong lol what a sad cunt
>Practically only enthusiasts play them.
if by enthusiasts you mean pathetic yuropoors obsessed with shit ports and low tier chiptunes sure

>>8253881
Second one was good, I saved it.

>>8255320
>makes sense as FM music is timeless
Aside from Yozo Koshiro and sonic meme shit, nobody really misses them. And it's pathetic, Amiga had been using sampled tracker tunes since 1985. It sounds a lot better and diverse than FM tracker.
>while SID music is remembered as just silly generic keygen eurojank trash
People love keygen music.
>you are the one obsessed with youtube views
On the track compilation videos, because those are the tracks people like and not just meme'd into listening.
>if by enthusiasts you mean pathetic yuropoors obsessed with shit ports and low tier chiptunes sure
Tone down the seething.

>>8254936
>the fool used an ad populum argument when discussing how popular something is
>what a weak mindled dolt
>im so much smarter than him

>>8255595
>Aside from Yozo Koshiro and sonic meme shit, nobody really misses them
if by nobody you mean coping yuropoor obsessed with keygen music, sure, because lots of people love FM music.
>Amiga had been using sampled tracker tunes since 1985. It sounds a lot better and diverse than FM tracker.
How so? amiga sounds like the cheapest of low tier MIDI, at best it's just different to FM music.
>People love keygen music.
in the context of generic keygen music sure.
>On the track compilation videos
cope because nobody cares about individual game soundtracks in the c64, they are so samey and generic so a compilation is all you need lol.
>Tone down the seething.
speak for yourself m8

>>8255638
different anon discussing different thing, fucking retardo.

>>8253913
sounds like a SNES jrpg tune