/vr/ - Retro Games

Because japs stayed true to the classic wizardry style (1-5) instead of doing weird shit like Americans

Robert Woodhead was always Japanese at heart.

>>8214627
because it's easier for the artists

>>8214627
Same reason weeks exist. When it comes from another country and is oddly translated it seems mysteriously foreign and exotic

They're a kino genre.

>>8214857
Weeks are a fairly global thing. Even the weekdays being named after the 7 planets is a common practice.

this genre is too hard :/ I just can play FF7. I dk where all the ins an douts are to this genre.

>>8214627
Wizardry is a JRPG

>>8214627
there's a lot to like about blobbers, the party and resource management, exploration, the mazes, and fast, snappy combat. But there's a lot NOT to like if you don't enjoy long endless corridors, being lost in mazes , constantly worrying about restocking resources, and mechanics that can seem ''unfair'' like really strong traps, poisons, pure black zones being teleported and disoriented around....
Westerners have said they are claustrophobic and ''dull'' because they lack story and character development. Japs don't seem to mind.

>>8215515
I guess they were born in the West, but raised in Japan, married a Jap girl and had hapa kids.

>>8214627
>why does japan love blobbers more than their home country
They don't. They just like wizardry more than us.

>>8214627
Japan fell in love with primitive Apple ][ shit which is easier to recreate than golden age 90s blobbers that were made exclusively for God Emperors of Autism that just don't exist anymore in 2021

>>8215561
they pump new ones out like there's no tomorrow. surely it's a love for the genre at this point

>>8214946
That didn't develop in isolation. The Western calendar has been spread around the world for millennia.

>>8215531
>she appears translucent
>displayed at full opacity

>>8215531
>>8216238
I'm glad the japs maintain trad female beauty standards, if Wizardry was being made by westerners shed either be a butch dyke with half her hair shaved, or some sassy tattooed mulatto mix with purple hair and long saggy tits

>>8214627
I love blobbers

>>8216253
Care to prove this? List your blubber achieves and likes/dislikes

>>8214946
lots of cultures have had weeks of lengths other than 7 days

>>8216264
Ok. Here is a list of the blobbers i've played and finished. Note these were all purchased at release.

MM3 to 8
Wiz 6 to 8
Etrian games
Wizardry TOTFL
Probably some others. I don't really feel like remembering that hard because i have more chops than anyone else on this silly board and you're no one I need to justify my long, long history of gaming to.

>>8216286
Also i had a tooth pulled today and i am feeling surly. You list your stuff now or stop posting.

>>8216286
Well, M&M6+ weren't blobbers and neither was Wizardry 8. Are you lying to us in hopes that we're all underage (as opposed to just most of us), sir?

>>8216286
Why no MM1 or Wizardry 5?

>>8216298
Ok, i'm done here. Mm6+ aren't blobbers? My 40 years and stacks of games say otherwise. I didn't list mm1 because i didn't buy it or 2 on release. My short, half considered list is barely representative.

>>8214946
>weekdays being named after the 7 planets is a common practice
yeah uh, see you can try to guess how things like the Gregorian Calendar became a "common practice."

>>8216298
Could you just list your stuff and stop behaving like a little NGJ fag off insertcredit circa 2004?

>>8216298
don't they all have at least the option of turn based? i know might and magic eventually fell apart when they let you go FPS and snipe everything with arrows
perhaps they are hybrid blobbers

>>8216302
I don't like wiz5.

>>8216319
Why not?

>>8216318
They are not blobbers, period, Mr. Liar.

>>8216318
They have a turn based option. They're great games for people that actually like and play games. Not a lot of people like that on this board and the faggot that replied to certainly isn't one either. I do, however, like games which is how i know this board is full of hipsters 30 and under. It's a shame because 15 years ago one could actually have decent talk on 4chinz but no more and certainly not here in this board full of posturing.

>>8216324
I really couldn't tell you because the last time i played it was fall of 98. Now that i think about it i dropped it because OoT came out and I was finally able to get fallout 2 working on my pc.

>>8216327
Please leave the thread you weird little prick. You're boring.

>>8216341
Do you really think that Might and Magic VI is a fucking blobber or are we talking about different games? M&MVI is most definitely not a fucking blobber, not even remotely so.

>>8216286
>>8216310
>>8216315
>>8216318
>>8216341
Wait a second, I looked it up and I was full of shit. For decades I thought that blobbers are turn-based dungeon crawlers on a grid. Apparently, the word actually refers to first-person games with multiple characters sharing the point of view, as it were. My bad. You can all eat a dick, but in this particular case I was wrong and an imbecile. Pic unrelated.

>>8214627
They're fun.

>>8216364
i like the turn-based, grid-based ones more, but yes, the concept is a blob of flesh with ~10 arms swinging swords or shooting a bow

>>8216373
>rpg maker looking
>FE spells
>SMT Moon
>wizardry stats
>ff menus
What's this fucked up chimera of a game?

>>8216391
Ultima had moons first.

>>8216391
https://files.catbox.moe/grxfwp.rar

>>8216409
just downloading this shit feels like descending into an ancient cursed dungeon

>>8216414
That's the magic and joy of playing random TL'd VIPRPGs, brother.

>>8216424
>>8216409
But it has custom portraits?

>>8216401
Ultima has two moons you underaged faggot

>>8216042
>>8215561
I think they're also just more comfortable iterating on a formula.
>>8216298
Blobber generally means a 1st-person dungeon crawler where your party moves around in a blob rather than individually. Most blobbers have grid-based movement but that's not necessary if everything else fits.

Not a big fan of the genre but i enjoy some Wizardry and SMT

>>8216409
Do you know where I could find the original game to download, rather than this translated one?

this is the only wizardry game i enjoyed
how do i cease being a japanophile

What's a blobber? Thicc woman with some T&A?

>>8216954
I only have one word for you and apparently, it's 誓

>>8216964
read the thread, dumb coomer

>blobbers
>JRPGs
>shmups
why do japanese love really tedious copy paste games devoid of innovation

>>8217057
>innovation =/= good
The wheel works fine so why make hovers wheels that are shit? I wipe my ass with your innovation

>>8214627
Fuck that term. Never heard it a fucking once it dribbled out of your gormless mouth. I appreciate her blobbers, though.

>>8216713
https://vipkohaku.x.fc2.com/2010/entry/040.html
straight from the VIP RPG pile

>>8216286
you're legit. I only played mm6 to 8, wiz1, etrurian odysees and DT trilogy

>>8217181
>DT trilogy
Dungeon Travelers?

>>8217249
yup

>>8214675
>stayed true
>removed ageing
>simplified spells
>simplifed dungeons
>simplified ressurection
>simplifed body retrival
>removed aligments
>fucked class balance even more then it already was
Yeah so true to the classics.

>>8217285
>removed ageing
Depends the game and it never added anything then and now
>spell system
Depends the game and mp >>> charges anyday
>they are not wiz4 level bullshit
Wiz 1-3 dungeons are about the same level as modern games
>resurrection
Depends the game and not that the very low chance of permanently removing a character added anything
>ever bothering with that
Git gud
>Removed alignments
Never done right, just a stupid limitation for party building
>muh balance in a singleplayer game
They made fighters more than just retards that can only attack, that's more than enough

>>8217302
>Git gud
Good at what? You can't get good if a ninja gank squad does a ambush and shanks the priest and mage in one turn. And a step further another ninja goon squad kills the rest.

>>8217285
most of those apply to later wizardry games and at least one of the "classics"

>>8217332
Go ahead and show me a japanese blobber that is anything but a simplified copy of Wiz1-3. It's true later wiz games removed a lot of things but they added to the gener new thing. And I'm not even talking about Wiz8 that revolutionized blobber combat yet no japanese or western company hast to courage to copy or improve on it. Japanese Wizardry clones are always simplifications of the Llylgamyn games no matter if they were made 20 years ago or just released. What I'm saying is they live in the past while Wizardy evolved to such a degree it will never be matched despite the so called "love" they have for the series.

>>8217352
Wiz 6 - 8 suck ass, Llylgamyn saga is Wizardry

>>8217365
Then enjoy your cheap low effort animu clones. And leave real games to adults.

>>8217352
>show me a japanese blobber that is anything but a simplified copy of Wiz1-3
the whole SMT series since it adds negotiation with and fusion of the monsters. specific games will have other shit like overworlds, demon personalities, vision quests etc
etrian oddysey since you have mapping built into the game rather than a simple automap or literally expecting people to have graph paper. certain games will have seafaring or an airship etc
fuckin even the weird loli toucher games are fairly creative. mary skelter has a sanity mechanic where your characters get drenched in blood. if it's monster blood they get powered up, if it's mostly their blood you lose control of them.

>>8216964
>>8215531
>japan maintains trad female beauty standards
I hope they never change and bend the knee to western social justice gaming dementia. Jrpgs and blobbers must remain pure like in olden times.

>>8214949
Play what you like@ no point Playing something hard just for the sake of it if you enjoy FF more
If I enjoyed easy games as much as I enjoy hard ones I'd obviously just play easy games, get the same thrill for less effort

>>8217392
so you're saying im just too retarded? ive never played FF games. That's pretty insulting man

>>8217398
Nah I wasn't saying that at all, blobbers aren't for everyone but there's probably an FF most ppl will enjoy, hence popular success

>>8217381
>enhancements of classic over new try hard crap that failed
Ok

>>8217423
>enhancements
heh

>>8217352
Live a Live
Final Fantasy Tactics

the only thing that turns me off of playing more blobbers is that there is often an expectation of lots of extra grinding being put in. I like exploring the different possibilities in character interactions and party composition but some devs seem to think I would enjoy spending an extra 40 hours getting my party's levels up.
I wouldn't. It's a huge time waster.

>>8217490
None require 40extra hours of grinding lol

>>8217498
The last one I played to the end of the postgame was Elminage Gothic, what's your party composition for Ibag Tower?

>>8217503
>post game
That's optional not required and I never played elm gothic myself, but I doubt all you do is 40 hours of grinding

>>8217398
you said you played FF7
if you want to get into this genre there are easier ones. i know arcana on SNES is pretty straightforward though it might be too vanilla for some

>>8217536
All of every game is optional and in Elminage Gothic for instance, you aren't going to complete a fucking thing unless you do dozens of extra hours of grinding. Many such cases actually. Next time don't make allegations about dozens of games you haven't played, esl.

>>8217543
>emotional ad hominems
Lel
If you think it's all optional then you just defeated your own point that 40 hours grinding is required.

>>8217490
>>8217543
>seething
>shitter excuses
>filtered by jrpgs
You love to see it.

I'm not sure if it's considered retro on /vr/ at this point or not, but I loved The Dark Spire on the DS. (To me) It felt balls hard, but it had a real charm to it.
>>8217259
It's nice to see DT mentioned outside of Vitagen.

>>8217543
in Elmi it's less about gaining levels, those won't save you from the insanity of the dungeons. It's more about building mental resistance to all the abuse

>>8217672
/vrpg/ abd c*dex are the only places I've seen seriously discussing it in recent memory. (with the rare as a unicorn occasional post discussing it among the vapid waifuposts on /v/ /vg/)

>>8217740
Elmi mechanics are also so deep and complex in late game that I'm not surprised people resort to excessive grinding as a crutch.

>>8217740
It's honestly a shame that blobbers are not talked about all that much these days. The genre spans decades, and it's probably the best form of RPG to boot.

>>8217543
christ no wonder you think this genre is a grinding nightmare when your metric is elminage gothic

>>8217390
Wizardy invented summoning monsters to fight for you it's the whole premise of Wiz4

idk how to into wizardry. Theres no point of entry

>>8218657
The first game is the perfect place.

>>8218660
so i gotta buy a ps2? i dont have hardware

>>8218657
Start with 5. It's a good middle ground between the first trilogy and the second.
Look at the FM Towns, PS1 or Windows versions to see which style suits you the most.

>>8218662
Wizardry 1 has like 20 ports try the japanese PSX Llylgamyn Saga it has a english option just google how to turn it on.

>>8216238
that's a bug in the pc version

ha very cool, yes I like!

I started with Wizardry 1.
the first 5 wizardry have good ps1 ports, with built in maps so you don't have to draw shit or use another app/cartography program.

>>8218646
megami tensei came out before wiz 4

>>8218646
>>8219335
Bard's Tale had summoning monsters and recruiting monsters in dungeons back in 1985.

>>8214627
Your nuspeak makes me sick. It's not even intuitive like 'shmup'.
>but people actually do call them that
Only in the last year or two has it had any real traction from a Google search. 'Blobber' isn't retro, and sounds stupid.

>>8219350
>from a Google search
So normies. Who cares? Blobber has been used long before that by people who have actually played more dungeon crawlers than the Grimrock games

>>8219369
Find me 3 80s or 90s articles with the term.

>>8219350
>nuspeak
the term is older than you
do you have anything meaningful to say about it or did you just want to bitch about semantics for up-boats

>>8215531
Story and character development are cancer.

>>8219335
Nop Wiz4 cane out 5 months before Megami Tensei and if you knew anything about Wiz4 development you would know it's gameplay was described in detail a years before it's publish date as the game was delayed from 84 to 87 due to the devs having obligations to fulfill concerning ports of older titles.

>>8214946
I don't mean to alarm you, but that is because a very specific Judeo Christian calendar has dominated the world. The 7 days thing is straight Biblical.

>>8219440
The Bible is just a copy of Babylonian lore.

>>8219392
I'm 37. Haven't heard it a damn once. I'll concede that it's old but it smells like it was made common very recently. It's nuspeak.
>>8219387
Like I said. Find 3.

>>8219387
>>8219457
How is that relevant?

>>8219460
How is it an argument? I just said the word is dumb and is newly used to any meaningful extent.

>>8219413
>Nop Wiz4 cane out 5 months before Megami Tensei
my googling failed me. i was wrong.
in any case the request was "show me a japanese blobber that is anything but a simplified copy of Wiz1-3" and i did that

>>8219451
Other way around. https://youtube.com/watch?v=1SZZzuweVEs
>inb4 muh confirmation bias superficialities argument
Watch the video to see the actual data before responding with predictable sóy-induced rage about the datings.

does genesis have blobbers?
i cant afford any of the consoles with blobbers on them

i liked the ps2 SMT games, the only JRPGs ive actually played through.
Would I like blobbers? Where should I start?

>>8221107
shining in the darkness? shining in the holy ark has more of the same.

>>8221107
the first shining game, shining in the darkness, is a blobber. if you like that series you'll probably enjoy it. might not be the best intro though

one of the hardest and most rewarding genres of gaming that's for sure

>>8218693
nice

>>8214627
>Blobber
Please die and stay die, thanks.

>>8219457
>but it smells like it was made common very recently. It's nuspeak.
That's because it was. It showed up because some boomers from Codex were visiting the /v/ Grimoire threads leading up to the release and kept insisting on dropping the name in there.

>>8221501
>>8221502
What matters is the words' current utility not nostalgia or how cool it sounds.

if you look up Dungeon Crawler you'll get all sorts of nonsense these days that are nothing like Blobbers.
Blobber just makes sense and it's more specific.

>>8221510
I really hate how absolutely fucking useless steam-tags are...

Puzzle games gives me shit like hte new Tomb Raider when I'm looking for shit like Zachtronics puts out.

>>8221510
>What matters is the words' current utility
Then blobber already fails at this because it's completely unneeded. The Japs already have a term for it, and it's called Dungeon RPG. Dungeon Crawler can be used for Eye of the Beholder, Grimrock, and any other Action Dungeon RPG. It's not my fault that the genre is so niche in the west that they lump any "Game that takes place inside of a dungeon" into the mix, like Roguelikes and Dark Souls.

>how cool it sounds
Blobber is a retarded boomer joke you would expect to find in an Adam Sandler movie. It's the game equvilent of that scene in the movie where someone is near Grandma in her rocking chair, and suddenly one of the characters shouts "Grandma knows kung fu! Get 'em, Grandma!" and then the little old lady is out of her chair, flipping around and doing karate chops in full CGI glory.

>Hurr hurr, dey all move togeder in one, dey must be like a blob or something, he he it's funny.
It's not, Cleetus. It's not.

>>8221510
Just call it a first person, party based, dungeon focused role playing game.
You can specify turn based, real time or mixed depending on the specific case.

>>8221113
For a good western introduction I'd say Operencia. It's not easy but it's not that hard, it has a richer story and characters than many of the other western takes on the genre (but it's not like it's in your face either, in case that'd off-putting to you - it's still pretty light) and there's environmental puzzles that I found to be pretty interesting and not just "press switch, open gate".

For a Japanese take, Wizardry: Tale of The Forsaken Land is very good but kind of dated being a PS2 game. Another good intro that can be quite brutal but is over all a good difficulty, and also like all these games has maybe more story and character focus than you'd normally get without being the focus of the game, is Saviors of Sapphire Wings. Although apparently the PC version is glitchy as hell so don't get that version.

>>8221518
>Dungeon RPG
this tells us nothing other than an RPG with dungeons in it, people will think of Hades, Shiren, Diablo2 and PoE lol

>>8221524
maybe better to call them wizardry-likes desu

>>8221524
> ''a first person, party based, dungeon focused role playing game, with turn-based combat''
Even saying that mouthful once a day is too much, imagine repeating it more than once when comparing genres or games in a conversation. That's why we need quick abbreviations like DRPG or specific terms like blobber.

>>8221547
Not him but that doesn't really matter as long as it's established. For example, people know what SRPG means and that it's a distinct genre yet all RPG have strategy in. Even RPG itself, I mean, you play a role in most games yet we know that it's its own thing and separate from, say, FPS where you also "play a role".

I don't know if any genre title actually fully conveys the genre without any additional knowledge - like "fighting game", Final Fantasy is a game in which you fight, Baldur's Gate also, and also Mario is fighting Bowser and the Koopa Troopas, but you know they're not a fighting games because we have the additional knowledge that it specifically refers to games like Street Fighter. It's not even that fighting is the sole focus, because fighting is also the sole focus of Streets of Rage, Call of Duty and Ace Combat but they're obviously not fighting games either.

>>8221549
Why not use the Japanese term 3DRPG?

>>8221550
The S in SRPG stands for Simulation and not Strategy. It means that it combined RPGs with combat simulation games such as Daisenryaku.

>>8221553
>The S in SRPG stands for Simulation and not Strategy.
no one thinks that lmao

which one for noob that isn't anime shit on PC.

Only have played Wizardy 8, but felt too much like Jagged Alliance (production wise)

>>8221557
To be honest, take away the anime stuff and you're left with soulless shit with art direction that's basically like Clipart. But since you ask, Legend of Grimrock 1 and 2.

>>8221554
Searching for "Strategy RPG" shows plenty of people using that term (wrongly).

>>8214627
Pic-related was almost a blobber, and was HUGE in Japan. Japanese devs who worked on the first PS and DQ games have made no secret they were copying Ultima/Wizardry.

>>8221554
>>8221568
According to Wikipedia, the official Western term seems to be "Tactical" RPG.

>>8221107
Might & Magic 2 was ported to the Genesis (with updated graphics and good QoL changes). It's probably how most Westerners found out about M&M in the first place. Also >>8221360 seemed a big deal back then because in the early 90's most people didn't have PCs and had no idea stuff like Bard's Tale or Wizardry existed.

>>8221557
Might and Magic 6 is where you want to start. If you want a little more "OG" experience, M&M 3 or 4.

>>8221557
M&M6 was so successful in part because the mechanics are streamlined to be beginner friendly. This isn't a bad thing though because it lets you just get right into the world and start doing fun stuff, and the world is simply amazing to explore. All the other games have a little more complexity to them, but M&M6 works great as a gateway into the franchise.

>>8221583
>>8221587
thanks Anons

>>8221574
Makes more sense since those games tend to have less strategy than normal RPG as you just fight one battle after the other with no need manage your resources in between.
Truly strategical RPG are games like HoMM.

>>8221580
Maybe Americans. Europeans had more home computers than consoles.
I started out with MM3 for IBM PC and Bard's Tale for C64.

>>8214627
sprite work in these old drpgs is so good

>>8217543
>All of every game is optional
If you want to actually have a discussion about games, then the distinction for what is optional or not and what the average player will experience is divided along if something is required, passively optional, or actively optional.

Anything that is required for the True or best ending is "required" content.

Anything that is "Passively" optional are things that are put in the player's path, or given emphasis for the player to do, but are technically not required for the true ending. For example, a side-quest where the quest giver is put near the loading point for a town, or a story event where a player has the ability to walk away from and skip it, or select "No" in the dialog, but might not know about it or want to do it.

Anything that is "Actively" optional are things put out of the player's way, emphasized as unimportant, or are cryptic and obscure. Like a side mini game in a store for money prizes, or a secret side quest that is only available in the starter town after you go through the second dungeon but before you get to the third.

For game design, you should always assume that a large majority of players will consume all Required and Passively Optional content. You should also assume that any player that goes through all Actively Optional content of the previous game will choose to go through the next game's Actively Optional content.

>>8221549
>imagine repeating it more than once when comparing genres or games in a conversation.
Yeah imagine how scientifically accurate that is and how easy it would be to sort through the games to find what you're actually looking for.

>That's why we need quick abbreviations
RPG Maker Non-RPG Horror Game. Yes, it's a mouthful. But it doesn't matter. It gets me specifically what I'm looking for, and that's what ultimately matters. If I need to shorten it down in conversation, I can introduce the full term first, then revert to "RPG maker" game once it's the established genre. I don't need to have a complete, one-syllable word for it.

>blobber
>nuspeak

Are you fags zoomers or do you just live under fucking rocks?

It's been around since the 2000's.

>>8222493
I played these games in the 80s when they were new, I bought dragon magazine and CGW and of course the word never saw print back then. The first time I heard the word "blobber" was someone reviewing Demon Gaze (not a magazine but some forgotten blogger). It reeks of being an arbitrary 21st century term invented by young game journalists and people who make indie fake-retro RPGs on steam.

Pic related. "fantasy role playing sim" was too much of a mouthful so we simply called them RPGs and everyone knew what we were talking about. If the game featured only a single dungeon or castle it was a "dungeon crawl" (A term coined by Gygax in 1982) and if it was an overland adventure like it was sometimes called an "adventure RPG". There were "adventure games" too but there were already their own distinct genre at this point being more text heavy, less combat (if any) and more associated with sierra quests or shadowgate by the late 80s.

tl;dr
Yes I am old and angry. It is as retarded as young people going back and retroactively creating new sub-genres for music from 1969.

>>8222493
>It's been around since the 2000's.
And yet this thread is mostly about games from the early 80s

>>8222357
>If you want to actually have a discussion about games
then you should be aware that post-game content can be significantly harder than anything in the main game because it's an extra challenge
the proper final boss is about level 30
the boss you need to beat to enter the final post-game dungeon is level 50
and then it becomes a complete joke and the bosses are level 200
the expectation is that you wouldn't even touch that content unless you're a glutton for punishment. you've beaten the game. there's nothing left to prove. this isn't like a genesis game that locks off the last level because you weren't playing on Super Hard mode. it's a carefully crafted suffering engine for masochists

>>8222626
you don't actually have to find the dumbest possible thing to argue about in every single thread anon

On the origin of "Blobber"

In 2005 there are rpgcodex posters referring to such games as playing as a 'blob with arms and legs' or a 'six headed monster'.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/minions-of-mirth-updates.6815/#post-110810

This seems to have originally been an derisive attack on such games - which had fallen out of favor considerably by this point.

..."Blobber" first appears on rpgcodex in 2008

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/recommend-me-a-wizardry-ripoff.22919/

It's being used by people who are fans of the genre.

The reason why is obvious; You either write 'blobber' or your next shortest options are 'wizardry clone', or 'first person party-based rpg'.

In 2018...

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-official-origin-of-the-term-blobber.123306/

Shagnak, the same poster from 2005, makes a post enquiring about the origin of the term, his searches for the earliest uses of the 'blob with arms' and finds up... His own post from thirteen years prior.

It seems the term originates from Shagnak's 'blob with arms' post, and Zomg turning it to 'blobber' 3 years later.

>>8222626
Might and Magic 1 was pretty much one giant dungeon with smaller dungeons in it.
The overworld is very labyrinthine compared to MM2 and later games.
In terms of text it has nothing on Ultima 4 with its keyword dialogs.

>this is the first time I've ever heard the term blobber

>>8222729
>then you should be aware that post-game content can be significantly harder than anything in the main game because it's an extra challenge
This was in response to you addressing whether content was optional or not. First establish why I have to care if actively optional content fits in with any difficulty curve of any game, because as far as I'm concerned, actively optional content are only for those that really really love the entire game enough to play it that long, and as you admit later in the post, it's not required.

>>8222740
>All RPG Codex
Find it somewhere that matters before 2018, and then I'll start giving a fuck. Until then, fuck off and die.

>>8222751
https://desuarchive.org/vr/search/text/blobber/order/asc/
>>343381

>>8222751
There is LITERALLY no online source for the word Blobber dating before the mid-00s. And wikipedia citation for this term date to 2015 at the earliest.

>>8222760
lol I recognize my own post asking wtf does a blobber mean. And I played all M&M games since the 90s starting with the Xeen ones and never hearing it used by anyone.

>>8222743
It also had the poorly implemented astral plane gimmick with the invisible walls. I remember hating it for being a tedious mess that ruined an otherwise fun game. I actually never played MM2 after my experience on the first game, and only came back to the series for MM3.

>>8222747
okay there's like 3 people involved all misunderstanding each other. i agree with you and vice versa
>>8217503 used ibag tower as an example of blobbers being grindy, and i think we can all agree that's a shit example, in the same way the surface of the sun is a bad example of how warm the universe is

>>8222751
https://www.google.com/search?q=wizardry+blobber&client=firefox-b-d&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:2010,cd_max:2016&ei=p0BjYbSEBoSDhbIPteqViAs&start=30&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwj085bKy8DzAhWEQUEAHTV1BbE4MhDy0wN6BAgBEDw&biw=1919&bih=967&dpr=1

Google shows the term spreading in use throughout the 2010's. Seems to have gone up against 'First Person Grid based RPGs' or 'Gridders' on gamefaqs and pennyarcade, and lost.

https://desuarchive.org/vr/search/text/blobber/order/asc/

Already in use on /vr/ in 2013 and apparantly understood by the majority posters.

Don't know where you guys came from 8 years later to insist the term blobber only started being used last week.

>>8222740
Why "six-headed monster"?

>>8222821
>Google shows the term spreading in use throughout the 2010's
No, if you checked the results you would see it matched blobber to blubber and blogger in your results. The term might as well be something invented by /vr/ and later used in the 2015 Gamasutra article the wikipedia lists as a source of this term.

>>8222834
Number of character used in the Wizardry series which is the originator of the genre.

>>8222834
wizardry's 6 person party where everyone moves in unison. they could be conjoined sextuplets and the dungeon crawling wouldn't change

>>8222821
It is probably because blobber is used fairly infrequently here, at least compared to other 21st century words like "metroidvania" which is a bit more widely accepted and at least by its name you know what it refers to. Metroidvania was confirmed to have an early 2000s origin and even then we have drama over it's use every few months.

For all we know a blogger out there could have invented the word "smashbotron" for the two stick shooter genre, combing smash tv with Robotron, and claiming geometry wars 3 is their favorite smashbotron game. You can go on forever inventing new names for old things.

>>8222862
>It is probably because blobber is used fairly infrequently here
It's more likely because the term sound stupid, has a unclear origin, and isn't far from other forced on /vr/ genre names like the ""scotformer""

>>8222771
That's just two dungeons.
MM1 is my favorite entry in the series. 3 onward is too simplified and 2 is too unbalanced.

>>8222870
>It's more likely because the term sound stupid, has a unclear origin

The term's origin is quite clearly the rpgcodex forums. It's used infrequently hear because it's not a genre that gets talked about all that much.

>""scotformer""

That's one's only used here, but it's just an abbreviation of "Mascot Platformer" - a term that, just like blobber, appeared right after the genre fell out of mainstream favor

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22mascot+platformer%22&client=firefox-b-d&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1995%2Ccd_max%3A2009&tbm=

>>8222760
>2013
>/vr/
Jesus Christ, has it really been that long? I genuinely feel like /vr/ was added just yesterday

>>8222771
>It also had the poorly implemented astral plane gimmick with the invisible walls.
It wasn't poorly implemented, you goof. It was a mapping puzzle, just like in the Soul Maze.

>>8223098
All I remember is that was was tedious as fuck and I was fine mapping things normally for other games. Keep in mind its over 30 years since I played it and I was 12 at the time. I just remember being irritated and that it was a low point of the game.

>>8223103
Your 12 year-old self probably just had some weird hang up on the invisible wall concept. It's actually fine, and it's even easier if you go there past level 11 cause your sorcerer can cast Etherelize and go through a dungeon wall. Plus the encounter rate there was criminally low, especially for what was theoretically the end of the game.

>>8223103
Also a null magic zone. So I guess not "poorly implemented" as the right words, just a deliberate hassle and slowdown to the games pacing.

>>8223109
>Etherelize and go through a dungeon wall.
I believe it was blocked there.

>>8223113
It's not, but I don't blame you for thinking that. There are a couple of spots in the Astral Plane that are anti-magic zones too. I also thought it was blocked until I forgot about it for a moment and cast it again before my brain processes could catch up and talk to each other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TVE--HZ4do

>>8223110
Anti-magic zones do have issues with the game, but the pacing isn't one of them. The game wanted you to explore the map and figure out where the walls are vs are not. Plus the emptiness really added to the mystery of it.

>>8223126
The worst part about the game are robbers.
It's better to etherealize through a door than taking a shot at opening it.

>>8223135
Yeah, my robber didn't start getting consistently good until around like level 8, and even then, it was only when I had stat up and Robbers Tools on him. He was also terrible in combat.

The worst part of that game to me was the god awful spell balance. You NEEDED to have 3-4 spells to function in battle for the entire mid game or you were guaranteed dead, but then you had like 20-30 spells that were utterly useless. Like Acid Rain. Hit all the enemies not in combat, but you can only cast it outdoors. Great! Except when I'm outdoors, 12/15 enemies in the encounter are in hand-to-hand. I get more value out of casting Lightning Bolt at that point!

>>8222870
>It's more likely because the term sound stupid,
Which of the famous fps dungeon crawl games even have "blobs with arms"? I find the term. Better describes 8bit era JRPGs like DQ, ff1, and hydlide where characters are a super deformed blob with arms.

I recommend loading up an audio-book or something to listen to while you blob in your Blobbers, something to keep your mind occupied during easy sections or downtime

>>8222853
Amusing and horrifying image.

>>8224036
What do they Japanese think of all the self-inserts and in-references of Wizardry?
Is Werdna and Trebor being obvious backward names held as secret lore over there where its not obvious. I see it's 'Toreboh' there.

Also that cover art is 10/10

>>8224859
supposedly the original eng to jap translations were terrible and the games come across as hyper-serious dark fantasy

>>8222853
You're decades late on that one. That's why we call them blobbers, you know. Because the party moves like one big blob.

>>8222849
>>8222821

RPGCodex itself investigated this: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-official-origin-of-the-term-blobber.123306/

The TL;DR is the term was invented on Feb 19, 2008 in the post https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/recommend-me-a-wizardry-ripoff.22919/
but it was the result of a tradition of calling wizardry parties blobs that goes back to that post in 2005: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/strategical-rpgs.6783/#post-109916

>>8225815
Funny thing, I remember a bunch of people on /vr/ claiming that blobber was always the name of this genre(at least from the early 90s) and that first person dungeon crawlers is the zoomer name.

>>8225774
Real fans played the games in English.
And they appreciate jokes like Werdna's business times.

Is Wiz4 responsible for the flood of kabbalah references in jrpgs?

>>8221510
Dumb classification, FFL games would be blobbers but they playing nothing like trad dungeon crawlers while something that does but has backsprites wouldn’t wualify. Not a useful term

>>8226067
>FFL games would be blobbers
no, the SaGa games have overhead exploration like dragon quest
>while something that does but has backsprites
what game functions like wizardry llylgamyn but puts the camera behind your party's back? does such a thing exist?

>>8225882
>that first person dungeon crawlers is the zoomer name.
this is the finniest part because "dungeon crawler" really was a period accurate term from the 80s (from the pages of dragon magazine).

>blobber

This is the "belt scroller" guy's new grift isn't it

I prefer the term lawnmower.

>>8226067
That's wrong, so no.

>>8221510
How in the shit is 'blobber' self descriptive or useful at all? It lacks both utility and coolness. Fuck blobber. Pick a better unique word or portmonteau.
>>8221502
We can't let literal, actual boomers name things. That's how we got 'toon' for MMO characters. Yuck.

>>8229171
>How in the shit is 'blobber' self descriptive or useful at all? It lacks both utility and coolness.
it's hyper-specific. if you say dungeon crawler people will start talking about pokemon mystery dungeon or diablo. i want to exclusively talk about games where you play as a blob with arms and legs
>Fuck blobber. Pick a better unique word or portmonteau.
go ahead but it better be absolutely perfect if you want to replace a term that's been in use for years

>>8225882
"first person dungeon crawler" is zoomerspeak. But "dungeon crawler" is an old term.

>>8229171
>Pick a better unique word or portmonteau
This is like trying to change metroidvania, immersive sim or roguelike at this stage, you're too late to the debate

>>8229341
I have literally never heard blobber used before anywhere prior to this thread and I have been playing vidya and reading about it since 1992.

>>8214627
They're called Dungeon Crawlers you absolute dunce.

>>8229310
>i want to exclusively talk about games where you play as a blob with arms and legs
>Buh muh boomer jokes
Final Fantasy is a blobber because your party moves around as 1 unit, being a blop with arms and legs. Dumbfuck.

>>8229341
Blobber is the more invasive term. It didn't start getting out of its cage until 2013, and a majority of people didn't know of its existence outside of Codex tourists until 2018 Grimoire threads got some traction from the shortlived memes.

>>8218673
Should i.emulate the psx(what emulator?) Or use hardware

>>8229354
>>8229397
>>8229171

You're a newfag to the genre and settled jargon. Nothing to be ashamed about or get mad at. You suck, you're new. Simple
Possibly you don't even play these games come to think about it, maybe go back to whatever easy, mindless shit you're used? Just a tip

>>8230065
Don't kill me

>>8230065
Depends on what your preferences are.
Alternative would be the PC98 port which has classic keyboard controls and lacks options such as automap.
The SFC port is also considerable for adding the hide command that make thieves less useless in combat.
Boot all of them up for a spin and see which suits your tastes the most.

>>8218693
omg are those MORE wizardry books that I haven't seen scanned? In the last few years nearly 50 Wizardry guidebooks have shown up online.

https://archive.org/details/@kitsunebi77?query=wizardry

>>8230403
Hey faggoid, I'm not going to use your preferred pronouns. Get the fuck over it. They're dungeon crawlers. Shove your LGBloobersGTQ nonsense up your prolapsed asshole.

>>8232546
>They're dungeon crawlers
wow you crawl through dungeons in zelda too! zelda thread LOL! i love ocarina of time!!
and POKEYMON XD and SKYRIM! wow it's like all my favorite games are dungeon crawlers ROFLMAO

>>8232556
nobody uses the word like that, you're making up something to be mad about

>>8232372
>boot all of them up
'no'

>>8232576

>>8232632
>steam genres

>>8232556
Did you throw up your meds on the way to tard school this morning?

>>8232632
What did Jeeves tell you about gay porn?

>>8232632
>uses steam
>is a fag
Checks out

>>8232372
automap really cheapens this game, I recommend any newcomer to Wiz to not use it. Some of the remakes thankfully let you turn it off, use dumapic (coordinates only) instead

>>8232851
That's why I went with PC98. On the PS1 you can turn the automap off but it's easy to turn it back on again. The SFC version ties it to DUMAPIC instead of having it available all the time but it's still not the same.

>>8232851
>automap cheapens the game
how pretentious

>>8232958
A game that's designed around getting lost in labyrinths is absolutely cheapened by being able to see your exact position at any time you want.
If you play Wizardry with an automap you aren't playing Wizardry at all.

>>8232980
But you're supposed to be drawing the map yourself anyway, there is literally zero different. all it does is save you paper

>>8232851
Someone correct if I'm wrong but wasn't automapping a spell? I remeber one of the Wiz games having a mapping spell instead of a auto mapping setting. It was a pretty good idea it balances the need for a map with your casts.

>>8232983
Using an automap is a completely different experience to mapping by yourself.
You can use digital mapping software or tablets for that purpose, you don't have to use paper.
With an automap you just run through all squares until the map is fully revealed, with manual mapping you actually have to analyze your position and ensure you aren't making mistakes.

>>8232994
you're splitting hairs and you know it man. what a goofball

>>8232985
By default DUMAPIC would tell you your coordinates and direction, .e.g 0 squares North, 0 squares East and 0 levels down from the entrance and facing north.
The Gaiden games for the Game Boy changed that to DUMAPIC showing an automap but had an option to return it to the classic experience.
Wizardry 7 added mapping in game, tied to an item you can get early on.

>>8232994
how would you possibly make a mistake mapping yourself? what the fuck? when i map on paper i just run through the dungeon and reveal the entire thing. automapping just saves me the trouble of drawing it. Like i dont get your point

Hmm

>>8233006
Because what you see isn't always what it actually there. Teleporters in particular can easily screw you over.
Running around is a terrible idea in Wizardry. Any unnecessary move can be your end.

>>8233000
DUMAPIC was only good to know the coordinates for teleporting honestly. But I actually remembered which game it was I had in mind. It's the PS3 Wizardry with the subtitle labyrinth of Lost Souls. The GB Gaiden you mentioned reminded me I played a back then "current year" console Wizardry games.

>>8233014
if you say so man. gameplay hasnt changed at all from self mapping vs automapper

>>8233019
DUMAPIC is absolutely essential. One of the main reasons I like starting with a Samurai is having a second source for it.

>>8229338
>"first person dungeon crawler" is zoomerspeak.
Is this opposite day?
This "first person dungeon crawler" description for the genre actually sees print in PC Gamer magazine and IGN, and in reviews going back decades. I don't recall ever seeing blobber or blooper or other fuckery mentioned from any publisher who employs an editor.

>>8214627
Boober appreciation thread?

I miss when games, movies, animie, and comics had more beautiful women with big boobers.

>>8233047
Obari once again filters me with his chins

I think games like this should give you map fragments as you progress but NOT show you your location on the map or give you any way to find your coordinates without keeping track yourself. I don’t like drawing maps, but I like reading them.

>>8233040
>gamefaqs
>ign
There's your problem, don't listen to journo. Start playing and you'll get blobbers eventually.

>>8232980
If they had ingame map drawing like EO games that would be cool, but fuck paper mapping
>automap bad
No it's very good

>>8233927
Gamefaqs wasn't journalists, those were just user reviews from 2000.

>>8216042
Mettatron is probably my favorite SMT character.

>>8233047
Yeah, its gonna be weird when we end up in a children of men like dystopia but instead of babies, nobody has seen a booba for years.

>>8233943
Detaching the mapping from the gamesoft itself makes it more immersive.

>>8234398
For me, it's Nemissa, but for a weird reason. I was allowed to join a tabletop RPG group way too young, and the DM gave me a spirit guide/babysitter helper NPC that was named and designed after Nemissa. Rather than being a demon, she was something like a reprogrammed T-1000.

>>8234503
I heard about you on a podcast, I think. If your character's name was Nova, then seriously, just tell me wtf happened with the Technomancer rewrite. No judgment, I just need closure.

>>8234516
>>8234516
Ugh, honestly, it was Catalyst continuing to be Catalyst - The developer offered no guidance or feedback, other than a instructions not to overshadow 6E's Technomancers, because that was in development at the time. There was someone more talented than me that could have maybe saved the project, but he quit as we were in the planning stages. I feel shitty about that.

I was a pretty crappy developer myself, I won't lie. I could have been more on top of things, but I just wasn't playing enough of the game to have that bone-deep knowledge for how to make it do what I want, or keeping close enough of an eye on the other authors, even though I knew we'd probably not get any editing other than our own. Between losing the "make rules go now" guy, the flurry over 6e, and the usual internal foibles of a Shadowrun book, I don't think the blame lays totally at my feet, but a chunk of it does and I can't say how sorry I am for dropping the ball.

>>8221572
I love this game so fucking much. I got a kick out of the dungeon parts, shit got tense. The second one is okay, too, but I've yet to play it all the way through.

>>8233040
>gamefaq review
>employs an editor
Choose one, zoomer

>>8234589
No one said this. IGN and PC gamer were mentioned as having editors, but the unrelated 21 year old screen shot was just an example from gamefaqs user reviews. If you insist on IGNs review, here it is.

>>8232632
This is legitimately worse of a selection to be quite honest with you. I'll stick to Dungeon Crawlers. I at least might find Grimrock or Operation Abyss on there.

>>8236021
>>8232632
Picture didn't load.

>>8232998
>>8233006
>>8233025
Wizardry in particular does actually change without automapping, because the game includes mapping traps. You castrate the game by using an automapper because it tracks position for you to boot.

>>8236026
basically this. The automap as seen in e. g. the pc version makes dark zones and spinners completely pointless, it's like removing all pits from a mario game.

>>8229341
Fuck you. Fucking gaslighting troll faggots in this thread with this fake-ass forced-ass word. Herbs and obfuscate.

>>8221572
this is a digression but Phantasy Star’s dungeon graphics are insane for a system with 16k of RAM. they animate better than any SNES or MD first-person dungeon I’ve seen.

>>8224859
I assume its like how we're aware that all the names in Dragon Ball Z are food jokes, but we suspend our disbelief enough to not care that Carrot, an alien from the Planet Vegetables has to fight the evil Freezer on Planet Slug.

is this genre alright if I love first-person mazes but hate grinding? what’s a game like this that isn’t too grindy?

>>8236931
yeah i think figuring out the actual layout of the dungeons is half the appeal
try wizardry ps2, tale of the forsaken land
dungeons have some interesting gimmicks and completing the quests keeps you at a good level

I hate asking for spoonfeeding, but does anyone have a link for a patched version of Wizardry Empire? Due to work I can only phonepost 90% of the time so can't really run patchers

>>8239223
>starfish
christ. enjoy if you can
it's on anon files but the spam detector won't let me direct link
/93X9hfO7uf/Wizardry_Empire_-_Fukkatsu_no_Tsue_Japan_patched_gbc

>>8239223
>>8240162
Coincidentally I just downloaded and patched that game, loaded it up and guess what? No ingame map...how did they expect people to play this shit or do you get a map eventually?

>>8240165
it's a spell
starfish never likes giving you easy access to the map

>>8239223
What patch?

>>8240265
english translated patch

>>8240364
Does it replace the spell names?

>>8240381
It's the gbc translation released by Helly and MrRichard999.

- Full English translation
- Re-naming of magic to traditional Wizardry naming
- ASM fixes to windows and dialogues
- Japan bug fixes
- Ghoul uncensored graphic from 1st Wizardry Empire

>>8240162

>>8239223 here, thank you.

>>8240392
Why did they even change the spell names in the first place?

Does anyone has pdfs of Jun Suemis Wizardy artbooks and willing to share?

>>8233047
they'll all be genderless clones by then