/vr/ - Retro Games

I beat it without a manual, just drawing a map. 2nd quest is bs though

Is this "too cryptic" for you?

Because this is what came with the game in 1986.

This is what you got when you originally purchased the game.

These are the tools Nintendo wanted you to have.

If you only emulate the game, your experience is incomplete.

>>8177509
What purpose does the bar of foam serve?

>>8177514

it holds the cart in place, fills in the bottom of the box

>>8177514
Can be eaten to restore hearts, but only if you ran out of potions and you're desperate.

>>8177509
>he didn't have the original gold cartridge
NGMI

>>8177496
Required information in the manual is fair. That's what a manual is for. Arguably, the manual *is* part of the game, just as much as the cartridge/disc. If a strategy guide that you buy separately is required just to beat the game, then that's indicative of bad game design.

Physical manuals were great. They allowed for more complex games and often added to the experience and immersion. New games need to be hyper-simplified and/or loaded with boring, hand-holdy, immersion-breaking tutorials because games no longer come with manuals. Physical manuals will probably never be a thing again because
> devs are too lazy to make them
> publishers are to cheap to print them
> everything is digital
> most consooooomers are too brain dead to read them

>>8177547
And also for environmental "save the trees" reasons.

>>8177991
Yes and also instruction manuals are racist and cisnormative while perpetuating colonialism by requiring that the user has a semi-functioning brain. Very problematic

>>8177496
>everything from dungeon locations to which walls you can bomb in some places, and comes with a fully illustrated map.
there's a walkthrough up to entering level 3. the map also leaves some squares blank and leaves out details in other spots
it does include hints for the other triforce dungeons but they're vague at best
> They put the important information in a manual, and then literally told you on screen, in the game itself:
this is basically it. it was way more efficient to put text and diagrams in a paper booklet than to have some poor code monkey implement it on a nintendo cartridge. if you look at something like ocarina of time, navi serves the same role as the booklet, but OoT has magnitudes more text than LoZ so they could naturally fit it in-game.

>>8177503
No it didn't, that came with the game in the American release in 1987. The Japanese game doesn't include most of the help the American game does.

>The Family Computer Disk System was never released overseas, so The Legend of Zelda came out on a cartridge outside Japan. What about the booklet?

>Miyamoto: Maps were included in North America. The maps included various hints, but to be honest, I thought it would be more enjoyable to play the game without any help.

>It's no fun if you know the solutions to puzzles ahead of time.

>Miyamoto: So we sealed the map, with a message reading "You should only use the map and strategic tips as a last resort."

>Oh, I like that!

>Miyamoto: But everyone breaks the seal. (laughs)

>>8177496
Alright bros, post every metroid info images/screencaps/graph/charts you have.

>>8178208

>>8178205

>>8178236
That is the only part of the map that is given in the Japanese manual which is a much smaller section, and no other tips besides the basic descriptions of items and usual manual stuff.

>>8178009
>instruction manuals are racist and cisnormative
It took me a minute to realize that you weren't my 8th grade spanish teacher.

>>8177496
It is unacceptable because each region would have a different version of the manual. So some may be helpful, some not. It's too inconsistent and saying just look in the manual is a cop out.

>>8177509
actually

>>8178009
I get that you're trying to fit in, but please, shut the fuck up. We get it, SJWs are a thing.

>>8178710
kys

>>8177547
Honestly, I used to like manuals for PC games because it was something to do while the game installed, but I've always disliked them for console games, especially for adventure/rpg games.
I'd much rather be playing the freaking game than looking for stuff in a manual, and if the manual gives in-universe info (as opposed to just explaining how to play), how the hell is my character supposed to know those things?

>>8177496
It depends on the intention behind it. Sometimes it can make a game feel more immersive, like it's not just happening inside the game. Other times it can take you out of the game if you constantly have to rely on it. Ideally, manuals should be used to inform the player without ruining the immersion with tutorials or an overabundance of tips. The problem is that these tips could've been more immersive in the base game with NPCs actually giving useful advice instead of nonsense like they do. If a maps going to explain everything to you, it should have history behind it. Who made it? How did they know this?

>>8179091
>manuals for PC games
They give you crucial info about the installation process, the complex controls, and how the game's mechanics works.
>manuals for console games
Unneeded information about a mindless tendie game 7 year olds could figure out in the matter of seconds.

>>8179091
>and if the manual gives in-universe info (as opposed to just explaining how to play), how the hell is my character supposed to know those things?
The character lives in that universe, duh. He knows it naturally, you don't.

>>8177496
>Is it acceptable for The Legend Of Zelda to rely on outside material like this?

It doesn't.

>I personally have no problem with it.

Of course you don't, because "it" doesn't exist. You can't have a problem with something that doesn't exist. The game does not rely on the manual. It merely makes an unnecessary reference to it.

>>8178594
The manuals for FDS games are maybe the most soulful ones ever.

It helps to know that for whatever reason, there's only ever one secret on each screen in the overworld. Once you've bombed/burned/pushed open an entrance, you're pretty much free to move on and search the next area.

>>8178205
This sounds more like the adage at the time that Americans were too retarded to figure things out themselves and never shared hints with each other.

Part of why Tower of Druaga was a huge hit in Japan was that it was an accomplishment to collect and trade hints with other people. Beating it meant that you had the time and determination to solve a puzzle action game. It bombed here because everyone gave up on it when the game didn't hand them the answers and "top score" mentality meant that no one shared secrets in a broad capacity.

>>8177547
>immersion
The fact that all Pokémon games don't have a combination of the Gen 1 manual and their remake's Trainer's guide is proof that Nintendo will never go all out with the series. It genuinely felt like you were given an in-game reference booklet.

>>8178710
You're mad because my post looked like something from your tumblr blog. Go back to your furry porn and smashing the patriarchy

>>8177496
>It doesn't come with a manual when I emulate it!
google.com
search "legend of zelda nes manual pdf"
if you're not downloading manuals you need to step up your emulation game

>>8179091
Sounds like you've never played anything very complex. Also the manual can be presented as something that the character you're playing has access to, this enhancing immersion.

>>8179091
>how the hell is my character supposed to know those things?

OP was born in 1999. Games always did this back then and for computer games it would be even more so.

>>8177527
The grey one is worth more due to it's rarity.

>>8177496
The game cannot be beaten legitimately without a guide or copious amounts of trial and error.

>PLEASE LOOK UP THE MANUAL FOR DETAILS
This is right after the roll of items, because it's saying you can look up details about the items.
By using the included maps and strategy guide you have used a guide, ergo not beaten the game without a guide. QED.

>>8181076
Reading a well written game manual can be very enjoyable and satisfying

>>8181190
You have my sympathies for failing the IQ lottery.

>>8177496
I believe games have suffered for the loss of instruction manuals. Now everything has to be made to include a shitty hand-holding forced tutorial/instructional gameplay segment rather than just relegating it to a manual or pdf or something and letting the game hit the ground running.

>>8178594
1

>>8184903
I think the issue OP is really addressing, but lacks the capacity to convey, is that a lot of games included hidden mechanics/strategy that would halt progession. Outside of accidents, these hidden features were impossible to pass without external influence.

The issues discussed pertaining to maps (and other things) was probably more due to tech limitations than purposely making the game easier via the manual. Sometimes it was due to trying to sell external products/services (guides, magazines, hotlines). Sometimes it was the vidya industry's developer incompetence due to growing pains.

Yes, a lot of modern games are waaaaay too heavy handed with intros/tutorials. Some games treat the whole fucking game like a tutorial. Some games assume the player has played the 20 other games in the derivative series/genre and only explain irrelevant shit.

It can see how it can be hard to balance player agency, game flow, market demands, and originality.

>>8178205
Yeah but they also botched the translation and thus the natural progression of hints. I've heard arguments both ways, but I've never actually heard of someone having a recorded blind playthrough with no manual using the US version, it's likely that *everyone* who thinks they've done this has actually received help in some form.

>>8185269
well yeah no one has played zelda 1 truly blind in like 30 years
actually clearing the game isn't that bad though. i can't think of any mandatory area that is total bullshit to get to
levels 1, 2 and 3 you just find by walking. 4 you need the raft but it's pretty obvious that you raft from docks. 5 and 6 are past the lost woods and infinite mountain which old men tell you explicitly how to solve. 7 is the pool which an old man tells you about, you don't know it requires the whistle but it's easy to trial and error. 8 is the most obvious burnable bush in the game and an old man tells you about it. 9 is spectacle rock which old men tell you about and it's a fairly obvious breakable rock
within the dungeons it's kind of a crapshoot as to where you need to bomb walls but at least there's not many possibilities. the compass and map serve as decent hints

>>8177547
>>8177496
>>8177509
Nintendo does this alot

>>8184930
Soulless

>>8185770
jfc thank you. i hate these whiny zelda threads


All of the 'bomb' or 'candle' the random places is only for things you DONT need to beat the game.

These are the only exceptions:
spectacle rock - npc tells you about
level 8 - bush stands out
lost woods - trial and error to get past it. its only 3 possible 'repeat' exits.
level 7 - somehat challenging. its the only area with a pool and nothing else. you only have 8 items you could try to use there - boomerang, bomb, arrows, candle, wand, meat , & potion. Using none of those has a effect that messes with progress. Lastly, the whistle, which only has the effect associated with 'levels', and thus actually has a connection that is reasonable to figure out. fucking kids

>reeeee
There is nothing wrong with digital manuals.

good games didn't need manuals because they were simple and/or excellently designed.

other games needed manuals not because they were poorly designed. Games were still fucking tiny, so you weren't going to lay out complex instructions in the game without being ridiculously explicit which kind of is overkill. Thats why the demo/attract is so useful, replay code is cheap by comparison to show a game function in action.

>>8186120
Nobody is saying that. The argument is on whether you should use a manual at all for LoZ (or atleast, the US version of the manual that gives advice).

>>8177496
>>8177503
> and comes with a fully illustrated map.

The original FDS release didn't come with a map. Only the cartridge re-release had it.

>>8177509
I'll watch a longplay, thanks

>>8186023
>lost woods - trial and error to get past it
also the hint-selling npc tells you the directions for it

>>8186639
Are there any major selling points of the FDS version over the cart, besides sound?

>>8186803
you can take a piss during load screens

>>8186146
>needed
Some games had thick manuals despite not needing them, because they were awesome games.

>>8177496
Manuals were pretty essential in the early days due to ROM space being so small. Information about playing the game was cheaper to print than include on the cartridge.

>>8187089

yeah, but i'm not talking about value added to purchase or lorebuilding. thats all well and good.

>>8177496
I think it's okay for old games to have it even if I don't like it, they didn't have room in the cartridge to explain these things in-game, so it makes sense for manuals to exist.
>>8177547
While this is all true, a more important factor is that they aren't needed anymore, and devs use the actual game to explain the mechanics or the story, they won't be a thing again because they became obsolete.

I mostly disagree with saying that it allowed for more complex games and enhanced immersion, I have played way more games that integrated an in-game tutorial better than a manual, the two exceptions I can think of are StarTropics TIS-100, which used the manual in some cool ways and helped immersion. If a tutorial is implemented well with the game and can be skipped if you wish, it's more preferable to me.

>>8182915
When I was a kid the Zelda manual went a long way into pulling me into the story and the world of the game. It was cool as hell.
Apparently modern kids neither read or use their imaginations.

>>8177496
Heres how to solve this problem, (1) Go on any search engine, (2) Type in Legend of Zelda manual for NES. (3) Go to the first result, it should be the official nintendo website.

I have no clue why people are so retarded to not do this, and instead complain about "Why I need manual for game?" like holy fuck if you are posting shit on the internet about the manual, that means you can read the manual on the internet.

BTW not saying this to OP

>>8177496
Don't feel bad at all. Nintendo had a tip line and guidebooks to sell.