/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8173638
Same reason they used to hate Zelda 2. They convince themselves that these games break some imaginary 'formula' essential to a Zelda game and basically go into convultions until someone snaps them out of it.
That's 'Zelda fans' though. People who like the games like the games.

I’ve always liked Wind Waker, in spite of being unfinished

>>8173638
Exactly as >>8173641 said. I love Zelda but I fucking hate Zelda fans. Most of the people who shit on Skyward Sword had never even played it. It's not the best game in the series but it's also not a bad game by any means.

There are literally no bad games in the Zelda series unless you count that CD-i shit. The problem is that most Zelda "fans" don't "get" Zelda (or Nintendo for that matter) and they get mad when every game isn't a clone of whichever game in the series they played first.

>>8173641
I love Zelda 2 and all the games before Wind Waker. Twilight Princess was a step in the right direction, but it's still gay, boring Aonuma garbage. FSA was the only good GC Zelda.

>>8173638
Personally? I don't hate Twilight Princess, but there's a lot of bloat, handholding, and cutscenes that makes it's replay value frustrating and annoying, especially some of the early Twilight Realm segments. The artstyle on some characters throws me off too, it's a bit to close to the uncanny valley at times, especially with a lot of humans. I wouldn't say it's a bad game, just one I don't care for.

Wind Waker is a love/hate relationship. There's a lot about I like, there's a lot I dislike. It's pretty obvious what those are if you've played the game yourself. The endgame Triforce quest, the ocean, the reefs, the sidequests. It's the opposite of Twilight Princess honestly where the beginning is smooth, but the ending is rough. Both of them have great dungeons though.

Really, it all depends on what sort of padding you find enjoyable, that's what everyone's "Favorite Zelda Game" boils down to because none of them are really inherently better than each other and they all do different things.

>>8173641
Care to back up your claims that people hated Zelda 2? It's the best game in the entire series so I'm doubting your post.

>>8173680
Opinions are indeed mixed on Zelda II

>>8173654
>The problem is that most Zelda "fans" don't "get" Zelda
This is why I hate the idea of a "Zelda timeline." I couldn't care any less if the games were connected besides the ones that are direct sequels. Them being connected doesn't feel all that important or meaningful, it's moreso about having similar themes rather than similar lore. They feel like alternate universe retellings of similar stories, so it feels weird to consider them apart of the same continuation.

I can understand trying to get the most out of a franchise and imagining how it's world is all connected, but at some point, trying to get it to all make sense feels detrimental towards them trying to be their own thing.

>>8173694
I treat it like any folklore hero tale where the central characters and story themes are similar but retold in different ways.

>>8173685
The pattern seems to be that it was liked when it came out, then disliked more when Link to the Past came and was perceived as a return to the style of the original, even though it isn't. It's just a return to the perspective. So people who cant reconcile the differences call it a 'black sheep' and poo poo it even though it is a high quality game.

>>8173680
>shit on by almost everyone for 30 years
>"well, i didn't see that so it didn't happen"

>>8173709
A simple game review would suffice but it wasn't hated on like you're claiming so you won't do that.

>>8173685
Opinions were it was different but still a good game on release.

>>8173696
This. It pains me that some fans don't treat it this same way or aren't also fans of folklore. I wouldn't even call myself a dedicated Zelda fan, I enjoy most of the games, but it seems odd to try and make it out to be more than it is. Folklore is fun when it feels like it can exist in a variety of ways with a lot of different interpretations.

Imagine if Zelda 2 was iterated on with a snes game.

>>8173720
Or when you read something that challenges what you think you could fucking google it instead of sticking your head in the sand and demanding strangers on an Internet forum spoon feed you proof.

I like all Zelda games. Never finished Zelda 2 but still liked what it did. I'm bad at vidya

>>8173762
I wasn't the one who made the claim it was hated.

>>8173638
they dont

>>8173762

>>8173694
What is your criteria for "direct sequels"?
Is Wind Waker a direct sequel of Ocarina of Time, for example? Is Spirit Tracks a direct sequel of WW/Phantom Hourglass?
Those games are pretty straightforward in telling you their connection to their predecessors.
I mean, I agree that trying to fit Oracle games in there or BotW is autism, but for games that tell you about it directly (unless you skip the intros and dialogue, I guess)? Ignoring obvious doesn't sound right too.

>>8173805
Zelda 2 is the only sequel. The rest of the series stand alone as their own separate games.

>>8173805
Using the same Link as the previous game or being a direct continuation of the previous story, time period, or setting. Direct sequel to me means it happens directly after the events of the first. If there's a bunch of worldbuilding, history, or time that happens between games, then it's harder to call it a direct sequel.

Legend of Zelda > Adventure of Link
Link to the Past > Link's Awakening
Ocarina of Time > Majora's Mask
Wind Waker > Phantom Hourglass

It's hard to call Spirit Tracks a direct sequel to Phantom Hourglass because it's a different Link, a different time, and a different setting. It's similar gameplay, but it's a different Hyrule set hundreds of years after Phantom Hourglass.

I don't even know how I feel about "Wind Waker sharing the same historical events as Ocarina of Time so it's technically a sequel." They feel like different universes, even when ignoring the artstyle argument. It's a legend, it's a retelling, not everything's going to be 100%, so you have to consider it as an interpretation for what it is.

>>8173836
My point about Spirit Tracks was that it doesn't really happen on the same Hyrule as the rest of the games in general and it shows, with the way it continues WW story being pretty neat and only adding to the experience.

It was the clear start of the decline phase. WW gets by by being very charming and unique, but clearly needed more development time, and TP in general is just a joyless brown attempt by Nintendo to give OOT fans what they thought they wanted, while also continuing to casualise and streamline the formula to the point of boringness.
SS is actually underrated. That game's okay.

>>8173638
I like both of those games though, they're great
>>8173641
Zelda 2 is dogshit though

>>8173885
Exactly. A sequel is often better when it's allowed to feel like it's own thing. And when games feel separate, it's often better when they're allowed to feel separate. The problem with creating a "Zelda Timeline" means having to stretch and force a bunch of explanations and theories to get it to work. It's such a fickle thing that not even some "hardcore" Zelda fans can agree with Nintendo's official Zelda Timeline. It shouldn't matter all that much, games often only show what they're required to show, things change for the sake of gameplay, convenience, thematics, etc. I'm surprised people are trying to connect or compact these worlds together rather than build or imagine more to them.

>>8173638
We also hate the DS games.

The Zelda timeline is exactly what it always was. A loose framework of something that is there, but not really important. If you think it sprang into being when they released the Hyrule Historia, you weren't paying attention. You can find interviews from around the time they were making OOT referring to it as a prequel story, WW is very clearly something of a followup to OOT. Where are you not seeing a timeline here? The modern entries aren't even that bogged down by timeline stuff. All we know about BotW is it's set somewhere toward the end. There's no requirement that you have to know the lore to get invested. It's what it always was.

>>8173809
I seem to remember that Link's Awakening was a sequel but it could come after almost any Zelda game.
Majora's mask was a direct sequel to OoT.

>>8173680
Wait Zelda 2 is liked nowadays? I thought I was the only person that liked it everyone hated that game forever

I really like the zelda games and all but skyward sword isn't exicting at all. Its not a bad game but nothing about the game is really fun the dungeons are so boring and easy compared to other zeldas, the flying is total dogshit and just a big empty space. Wth did they thought about the harp in this game??? The "songs" are all the same you only swing left to right, the animation of phai singing looks fucking horrible. The end of the game triforce dungeon is 10 minutes long and the final boss is the most boring and easy fight I ever had in a Zelda game. The fact that phai keeps pop'ing out every 5 minutes saying something totally meaningless is ridiculous and repetitive.

>>8173964
For all it's flaws, it's probably a harder game than both WW and TP. You can't call it easy if you aren't going to level greater critcism at those games.

>>8173638
TP: Starts too slow and the wolf/bug sections aren't exciting
WW: People crap on the cel shading but I wouldn't take this too seriously. Probably not enough dungeons and too much empty time when you're sailing across the ocean. Personally I kind of like this one but thought it was a step down from the N64 entries and the series went downhill from there.

>>8173762
>onus probandi

How is skyward sword a harder game??? What should be hard? The 1v1 fights vs the gay dude? The dungeons are no challenge, no hard riddles or enemy's. You'd think after windwaker they would make the instrument interesting in some way, PLAYING any kind of notes, but no only left to right, and whatever is playing then you can't even call it a song. The spirit challenges are even worse than tp's wolf only parts and I hated them in the tp but this game didn't even try. Their only selling point of this game was the motion controls, which are not entertaining to anyone I know personally. Windwaker is fun and exciting the sailing is the best exploring of any zelda game in the entire series. And have no clue what kind of substances you are taking but this game is not easier than skyward sword lol. Tp neither btw. The only flaws of tp are the slow start and the wolf sections while the entire skyward sword game is straight up boring. You can't play it for more than 2 hours because you will fall asleep by then. It doesn't have any good side quests or mini games. The triforce hunt is windwaker takes a while but why does that make it bad? Are you to dumb to find the ghostship or what? WW/TP haters are just mentally in another world.

>>8173638
Reminder that there was no such thing as a Zelda Cycle until Aonuma started getting in charge.

Once he took the reigns he made 2 rehashes of OoT back to back and then reached the clown apex of this formula with Skyward Sword.

>>8173641
This sounds right. I loved WW and, admittedly, it was the first Zelda I replayed immediately after beating it just for the fun of it.

>>8173654
>Most of the people who shit on Skyward Sword had never even played it. It's not the best game in the series but it's also not a bad game by any means
Agree with this too. I get that SS isn't the favorite of a lot of people (including me) but I still loved the game to pieces and apparently didn't have nearly the issues everyone else had (or at least to the severity they go into)

>>8173958
>A loose framework of something that is there, but not really important.
More or less, that's how I wish it was still treated. I remember before the "official" timeline existed. I remember fans trying to make their own. There was never much weight put on it until Wind Waker + Twilight Princess, which lead to Skyward Sword being the way it is with it's story and world design. I think the prequel stuff with Ocarina of Time was in relation to the Hyrule Creation Story told by the Great Deku Tree.

Lore in a Zelda game is a volatile thing which changes to suit the needs of it's game. Trying to make a timeline out of it doesn't make sense because of that. Even when they're trying to make a connection, it's better to treat each game's retelling of events the way they're presenting it to you. Placing an emphasis on it though or trying to figure out the timeline is what's retarded.

>>8173927
The problem with "official" Zelda timeline is that it was already retconned by Nintendo itself and that at least half of the reason it ended up being what it is because Four Swords Adventures was butchered.
Either way, I feel it's really silly to both try very hard to fit EVERYTHING when it doesn't matter or brush away the obvious connections.
>>8173958
Also this.
Skyward Sword, Minish Cap and Ocarina of Time were all billed as prequels to the whole series at the time. There were clear sequels too.
Zelda 1+2 and Oracle games really were the only games that are kinda detached from the rest.

>>8173638
WW: mainly the graphics though the lengthy boat segments and the triforce hunting tends to sour the game for a lot of people
TP: overly brown and ugly looking game that tries way too hard to be dark and edgy in response to wind waker but it just comes off like some weird fanfic

>>8174054
That is how it's still treated though. We still don't know which branch of the timeline BotW is supposed to be on, and I don't think Nintendo do either. It's there in the background, but it doesn't matter that much.
They're not suddenly going to drop a Zelda game where all of the different Links team up like the Avengers to take down Majora and Zant who have stolen the ocarina of time and turned Tingle to the dark side.

>>8174085
Wouldn't it be funny if they released BotW prequel, but then made it a time travel story that created another branching timeline for no good reason, haha...

>>8174104
This one ties into the Satellaview game though, so it’s got that DEEP LORE.

>>8174085
I was never saying how it should be treated in games, but how it should be treated by fans. I really don't get why people are trying to decipher and piece it together when the larger picture has never mattered, it's what the individual games themselves are trying to do.

I was just ranting about Zelda fans if anything. This all stems from >>8173654
>The problem is that most Zelda "fans" don't "get" Zelda (or Nintendo for that matter) and they get mad when every game isn't a clone of whichever game in the series they played first.
I guess I was just trying to explain my thoughts about it or why the fanbase is perceived as badly as it is.

>>8174112
Personally I think the old fan theory days were fun, but Nintendo kind of ruined that by publishing their official timeline. The people who petitioned for that got what they wanted, I guess.

>>8173638
Wind Waker got shit on because everyone wanted another gritty looking game instead of cartoon garbage. Ironically enough that "cartoon garbage" style made Wind Waker age much better than TP, and no version of Link has been as expressive and capable of emoting as WW. My biggest problem with it is how it's obviously unfinished. Never even saw the problem with the Triforce quest, because it actually told people to fuck off and explore the world instead of giving them a waypoint to go to. That section of the game probably came the closest to the original series idea of pure exploration of any Zelda game since LttP.
People only hated Twilight Princess a while after it came out. And honestly, there isn't much to complain about (if playing the Gamecube version), it just feels like I've done most of this game before in Oot. Still a great game. But collecting the tears or whatever as the wolf sucked.

>>8174112
>I really don't get why people are trying to decipher and piece it together when the larger picture has never mattered
For the sake of fun, of course. It a pretty entertaining experiment, especially considering how most games were made with it in mind.

>>8173896
Filtered

>>8173734
Didn't it almost happen?

>>8174118
>The people who petitioned for that got what they wanted, I guess.
Same thing happened with Twilight Princess, people got what they wanted or fantasized and then continued to complain about it. It's around this time that Zelda fans started developing a bad reputation, the timeline theories played into that somewhat, it got even worse when Nintendo tried to explain it and why it got parodied so heavily with "Mario Timeline" and "Kirby Timeline" and "Wario Timeline." It was fine when it was deepest lore shits and giggles, but the problem is that there were people too serious about it and genuinely invested in trying to make sense of it all by reading too much into shit that wasn't there or was surface level.

Some of the old theories were fun though. Like trying to explain Termina or Wind Waker's Tower of Gods. Usually those ended up being game specific or trying to come up with fake events that would lead to them.

>>8174127
It's a fine line I guess. I just find myself easily getting annoyed by fans who seem really into it.

>>8174197
>Wario is banshied from the mushroom Kingdom
>After the events of Mario Tennis
That really caught me off guard

>>8173638
they act in direct contradiction to each other, both try to pull the series in two different directions while providing zero challenge or innovation to the core gameplay of the series
personally I find WW to be more egregious given how irreparably it fucked over the franchise by screwing up what OoT was meant to establish with LttP

>>8174695
>they act in direct contradiction to each other, both try to pull the series in two different directions
And how is that a problem?

>>8174713
It shows a lack of faith in the director's ideas and created the annoying timeline split that continues to hang over the series' head
you could argue that Ocarina started the split with the outcome at the end of the game, but it wasn't until WW and TP that Nintendo began to capitalize on the two different "endings" and highlight them as a unique feature of the game's world and story

>>8173638
Wind Waker was a rushed mistake with an ugly artstyle. Twilight Princess has problems like the tutorial section, but it's still a top 5 zelda game.

>>8173638
I like both but they are flawed. Wind Waker is way too easy and while I think the exploration was very good for its gen, it has as good story but not enough interactions with other characters for my taste. It was just too small and easy for an exploration game.

TP should also be harder though this isn't as big a problem. It has one of the best combat systems but doesn't force you to use it. A lot of the side quests are not very fun compared to previous games, and its kind of ugly. It was ugly even when it came out.

Neither are really bad games, but this is Zelda so standards are higher.

I will get slightly off topic to say WW HD is too easy and hero mode is artificial difficulty. At least the second quest should have preserved the Triforce charts. I suppose the grappling hook tweaks are nice, but I am so far baffled that I can actually use the gyroscope on the forest boss. Overall the remake has taken a too easy game and made it easier.

>>8173964
I remember I had to apply some fucking Ocarina cheat codes to make Fi shut the fuck up and let me play the goddamn game without reminding me that my health and/or batteries were running low.

As for the final boss, try fighting him without making use of the thunderbolt mechanic. He's actually pretty hard then and the fight is way more fun. I was obtuse as fuck and didn't realize you could make use of the thunderbolts to stun him until after I beat him.

>>8174695
>>8174749
>muh timelines
shut up retard

>>8174160
>Filtered
By shit gameplay lmao

>>8173641
>wind waker and twilight princess aren't formulaic
Fucking delusional

>>8173836
>set hundreds of years after Phantom Hourglass.
Isn't Niko in spirit tracks? It's like one generation off

>By shit gameplay lmao

>>8173638
Pic makes it seem like TP Link is Toon Link's Stand.

>>8173694
i agree but let's not pretend that Nintendo aren't the ones making every other game either a prequel or a direct sequel to the games rather than just stand alone stories

>>8173638
i like every zelda the first few times i beat them, but after that they always seem a bit worse for wear each replay
i would rather they get made with a more tried and true timeless principle, games like tony hawk pro skater, and mario 64, starcraft, diablo, things like that are ageless and can be played years later over and over and they remain great

>>8173638
Those 2 are in my top 3 or 4 zeldas for sure. Really only complaint with WW is that i wish the world was bigger and you could walk around on your boat (but i guess tech limitations of the time, oh well)

>>8173654
reddit

>>8173643
Same, it's in my top 3 zelda titles. Love the exploration in it. I'd draw a map while playing and had so much fun doing it.

>>8173762
>google it
>using a bias search engine

i like them both but i think twilight princess is one of the weaker Zelda entries. id even put it below skyward sword which i think is hugely underrated.

>>8173643
i love wind waker so much, but it's crazy how much better it could have been. i really wish they'd revisit that style/world. best well probably get is remasters of the ds games though.

>>8175191
>SS
>underrated

please take your bait back to /v/

>>8175191
>weaker
The word you're looking for is "worse".

3d awkward bullshit and fucking storyshit.
Original NES Zelda is the only good Zelda.

>>8175196
i've never posted on /v/ and most people i've talked to irl either hasn't played ss our didn't like it.
>>8175197
>semantics

>>8175209
You talk like a faggot so I'm giving you advice on how not to. You ought to be thanking me.

>>8175214
>pretend tough guy posting on 4chan

>>8175220
That's just the way people talk here, perhaps not though on boards like /vr/ which are infested with redditors such as yourself. Clearly struck a nerve for whatever reason.

The hype for TP back then was insane, and I don't think there's any way it could have lived up to it. Keep in mind as late as early 2004 Ninty was still saying they were working on TWW2, and you'll understand why people went crazy when they first revealed TP. Lord knows I busted a nut when the first trailer was revealed. When they revealed they were going to release it first on the Wii, I knew I had to preorder the damn console just to play it ASAP rather than wait for the GC version.

So yeah, needless to say when I finally got to playing it... well, I have to say, other than the shitty tear fetch quests as Wolf Link, I was enjoying it immensely. Little by little, as more of the game opened up to you, it really did feel like it was going to massively outscope OoT. The plot in particular felt, well, epic. Up to the Midna's Desperate Hour part, it felt like a masterpiece. But sadly, that's when the game began falling apart for me.

>>8175232
cont

The game starts losing focus around that part. It picks up for Arbiter's Grounds, and the Stallord battle is hands-down the best in the game, but after that is where the game really nosedives. The dungeons become boring as fuck, as do the bosses (well, City in the Sky is ok). The world turns out not to be so massive, and you find out there's not a whole lot to do in it. It's even emptier than OoT's! The narrative all but disappears, and the plot loses all originality. And don't get me started on the writing and dialogue. It's like they stopped trying at that point. There's a bunch of plot holes, too. TWW, by comparison, had a much tighter narrative and far better character development, with the possible exception of Midna, the REAL main character of TP.

By the end, TP really does feel like a soulless attempt at one-upping OoT. Shame, because early on, it really did project a ton of promise.

I was still a kid when Wind Waker came out, so I never really got the huge fuss over the art style. At least not at the time. I think the basic character and their expressions look nice and Wind Waker Link definitely has a kid appeal that has clearly endeared him to a lot of people on this site. And everyone loves the swirly smoke.
But that's pretty much where the art style stops being good. Have you guys ever looked at the actual visual design of a lot of the locations in the games -- specifically the temples? All of them but Ganon's Tower and Tower of the Gods are really goddamn boring visually. Dragon's Roost Cavern, Forbidden Woods, Earth Temple, Wind Temple. There's absolutely nothing good about any of the art design of these. Then compare them to the N64 Zelda games; only Dodongo's Cavern has the same simplicity as all but two of Wind Waker's dungeons.

But that's not really that big of a knock against Wind Waker. The real issue with Wind Waker, as anyone can tell you, is that the puzzles are too easy, the combat is simplified down to QTEs and the base gameplay of sailing is boring at best. I replay OoT and MM about once every couple of years, but after playing WW two years back I firmly feel like I never want to touch the game again.

>>8175276
Everything is a plain color without texture. The ocean is literally one single shade of blue. The definition of soulless.

all aonuma zelda games are derivative shit. they're not all bad, but the zelda seires went from defining genres to being the blandest examples of them.
it's still popular as fuck by sheer name recognition so you get millions of people saying X zelda game is the best action-adventure game ever. they genuinely believe it because they have only played zelda games.

>>8175290
Twilight Princess has been acceptable for a while. Though I guess you could say the same thing about Windwaker.

>>8175230
keep crying about it

>>8175308
Crying about what?

>>8175276
And I will admit. It's been a long ass time since I've played Twilight Princess, but I'll dig deep for a laundry list of grievances.
>The art is just bad. Smeared in brown Vaseline. There were other Gamecude games that looked far better.
>Midna is just as annoying as most the companions in the series. If people didn't want to fuck her, she'd be hated.
>The beginning half with the three dungeons and bug-catching is one of the worst experiences of almost any Zelda game.
>Wolf Link isn't fun
>Most egregious example of items only being useful for a single dungeon in the franchise.
>Nintendo's notion of a "dark" storyline is laughable. Ends up being neither dark or mature and even less so than the main plots and side stories of OoT and MM.
>Combat was even easier than Wind Waker. How does that even happen?

I know Breath of the Wild is the big name game everyone has been dick-riding for the last few years, but if fucking baffles me how anyone can trust the devs who churned out nothing but mediocre Zelda titles since 2002 to make a proper game. All the enjoyment of BotW is derived from fucking off and doing whatever and none of it is from any structured part of the game.

>>8175189
>doesn't know how to use search engines
>thinks game reviews are unbiased

>>8175358
>The art is just bad.
right off the bat, shit criticism of TP
i'm out.

>>8175358
The art looks really good in some parts.
No companion is annoying apart from maybe the one in Skyward Sword.
I accept your opinion. But I found it to be a very unique feeling of isolation and vulnability.
Yes.
Yes.
I don't think Nintendo ever described it as such. Doesn't sound like them, calling their own game "dark". In my opinion it is the same level of "darkness" as Ocarina of Time.
I found more enemies annoying and the horse riding combat difficult.

I don't think anyone on 4chan praises BOTW. However reddit and video game journalists are still calling the best game ever made.

>>8173638
Zelda "fans" bitch about everything

>>8175430
Kill yourself.

>>8175439
case in point

>>8175441
What the fuck does this even mean? Do you think you sound smart? I mean, I don't even need to ask that, as you think "ZOMG X FANDOM REALLY JUST HATES X FRANCHISE" is an original thought.

>>8173638
Why do you put unsaid words in people's mouths?

>>8173638
They're bad games.

>>8173641
Nope. Zelda 2 is actually fun, unlike the nonstop handholding, cutscenes, fetchquests, tutorials in WW and TP. Awful fucking games.

>>8175394
Nope, TP's art is fucking hideous. A piss and shit filter, utterly deformed characters, horrible animations... Even the music is bad.

>>8175446
>What the fuck does this even mean?
your shit reply is an example of zelda fans bitching about everything
>Do you think you sound smart?
compared to the mong screeching KILL YOURSELF in a discussion about fucking wind waker i look like a genius
>ZOMG X FANDOM REALLY JUST HATES X FRANCHISE
the point is that the zelda community is split a million different ways even though the games are all very similar. you get retarded complaints like THIS GAME SUCKS BECAUSE KIDDY GRAPHICS. then the next game has a different art style and it's THIS GAME SUCKS BECAUSE IT'S EDGY GRIMDARK GRAPHICS. then they do something different and new stupid complaints come again.
i even agree that every aonuma 3d zelda is worse than the previous but not for the stupid reasons you constantly hear

>>8173638
Because Wind Waker was boring pile of shit. Phantom Hourglass used the sailing much better.

>>8173734
it goes as such
Zelda (G&W) > Zelda 2 > CDI games

>>8175469
>your shit reply is an example of zelda fans bitching about everything
>NOOOO YOU'RE A ZELDA FAN!!! THAT MEANS YOU CAN'T COMPLAIN ABOUT ZELDA BECAUSE... IT JUST DOES!!!!!
Can you just fuck off, please?
>in a discussion about fucking wind waker
What's the significant of this being a Wind Waker thread?

Every single fucking fandom is filled with people complaining about the state of the franchise. I get it, you thought that you were being smart and didn't realize that this "smart" comment has been said a million times already. That's okay. But now that I've told you can you fuck off?

>>8173638
been a while since i've played em but
>wind waker
sailing. the songs inside dungeons. people who blotted the gerudo part of oot out and pretend ganon's got a deeper motive. the first dungeon being stealth based. dungeons are kinda weak in general but tbf that's the case with oot too. wasn't bad but eh personally i can't say i find it as good as
>twilight princess
but let's start with that ones flaws ig. the wolf parts. the ice dungeon's block puzzles. ya don't reuse items nearly as much. the fucking iron boots section in goron mines. not getting the horse whistle until right before the final macguffin dungeon. not having a way to change the time despite there being things you need to get at night. though honestly i'd say they did a better job overall. dungeons are solid, partner is interesting, the overworld isn't tedious to explore. items are used neatly if sparsely. story is solid. that's about it. but either way that's just me and zelda fans aren't one person. i mean, i thought the way ss went was way better than botw barring tutorials so yeh.

>>8173680
Personally I really couldn't get into it. To be fair I was playing in on the gamecube and it's d pad sucks, so that may have been the problem.

>>8175446
based schizo

>>8173638
because they're not OOT & zelda fans don't know what they want 90% of the time.

Verification Not Required.

>>8173960
>Majora's mask was a direct sequel to OoT.
Was it? It has nothing to do with Hyrule, Zelda or Gannon.

>>8176592
it starts shortly after oot ends and has the same character
link is going looking for navi when he falls into termina. you even get a flashback to zelda when he gets the ocarina

>>8176592
It very obviously is. However, it is also very much a side story.

>>8176598
>>8176602
>you even get a flashback to zelda when he gets the ocarina
Without this one shoehorned scene would you still consider it a sequel? Seems lazy to me.

>>8176710
that's like saying link's awakening isn't a direct sequel to alttp because there's only one mention of zelda. you see both of them set out from the last game, and then conk out, and then it's the new game until you leave at the end and continue doin what you're doin. well maybe not la link due to being on flotsam and all but ya know what i mean. maybe he got another boat.

>>8176710
Yes. Because it takes place immediately after OoT.

>>8176773
Feels like an expansion more than a sequel to me.

A lot of Zelda games get hate on for a few years and then if enough time passes they will get praies instead. This is exactly what happened with anything post OoT, except for BOTW maybe.

>>8176825
BotW is weird because a lot of people who have never played a Zelda before or hadn't touched the series in over a decade seem to almost universally love it, but it seems to be a little more divisive among the people who've kept up with the series for years

>>8173638
I don't. Why the fuck would you make this stupid bait thread?

>>8174914
based

>>8175230
>That's just the way people talk here, perhaps not though on boards like /vr/ which are infested with redditors such as yourself. Clearly struck a nerve for whatever reason.

>>8176790
ok

>>8176836
Yeah honestly I need to play it, but as of right now the wii is the youngest console I have. I have some reservations as I've gotten so much more into zelda as of late and am kinda bored of open world stuff.

>>8176836
I like it a lot, but it's hard to even compare it directly to the rest of the series. It's very much it's own thing.
It's not a return to the style of the NES games, either. Those people are lying. The NES games were very much built around gating progress behind specific item pickups and cryptic clues.

>>8174914
timelines and the autism surrounding them are literally the only kind of "depth" Zelda has going for it

>>8176836
Because the series changed over the years, and it drove away people who liked what the series was before it got ruined.

>>8173638
I hate Twilight Princess because it's slow, tedious with mechanics (tears of light, killing those twilight warrior things, saving the burning cart, the monkey dungeon), looks ugly with all the bloom trying to bring color to a dull grey world, all the characters aside from the main cast are hideous, riding anything handles like shit, dungeons cure insomnia with how boring they are, there's too much padding (aforementioned tears, running around as the wolf, etc), and it shat on a new storyline and new villain just to say "whoa it was actually the main bad guy you've known for years the whole time! Bet you didn't expect that!" That's like 2/3 of the way through Thousand Year Door you find out the Shadow Queen was just a puppet for Bowser.
I will happily take sailing the segmented and half-empty oceans of Wind Waker over attempting Twilight Princess a fifth time.

>>8177506
>and it drove away people who liked what the series was before it got ruined.
Botw isn't really anything like any pre-n64 zeldas.
The people who act like botw is like zelda 1 have clearly never played zelda 1.

>>8176836
I really don't get the obsession with breath of the wild. Its most ardent fans either have to be people who had not played most of the existing zelda franchise or people have never played a non-Nintendo game in their life. There is nothing so mindblowing about HL2 physics and Portal test chambers in an Far Cry map that people need to treat it like the best game ever. I legitimately do not see the appeal.

>>8177318
>>That's just the way people talk here, perhaps not though on boards like /vr/ which are infested with redditors such as yourself. Clearly struck a nerve for whatever reason.

>>8173641
Retarded fanboy argument.
Both of them are extremely formulaic OOT-wannabe entries, Wind Waker is an unfinished mess and the only ones that actually say it's good are "muh style" peabrains or shitty Gamecube babbies that played it as their first game/Zelda ever such as you.

>>8177602
Yeah, if BotW was actually like Zelda 1, the dungeons would be hidden rather than immediately visable from anywhere on the map, items like bombs and bows wouldn't be immediately given out, and the game wouldn't be built around the idea of letting the player forgo any particular challenge and "make their own adventure".

>>8177407
You're thinking of Metroid

>>8178014
you can't access level 4 without the raft from level 3. you can't access level 7 without the whistle from level 5. you can't access level 8 without buying the candle. you need the bow and arrows to kill gohma. many of the dungeons require the ladder to complete.

>>8173638
Wind Waker is fine. Not amazing, but fine. All Twilight Princess is is a tryhard game which can't stop sucking OoT's dick. That's when I knew the series was over. It has an ugly, muddy art style, hot topic colour palette and character designs straight out of an angsty 12 year old's school notebook. There's no freedom of movement when it comes to the order that the objectives have to be done in, barely any new concepts, just references to OoT because that's the one people liked. Twilight Princess is the moment Zelda started to be about its weird lore rather than a big adventure in its own right with fun dungeons and puzzles

>>8178226
Wind Waker has worse graphics.

>barely any new concepts, just references to OoT because that's the one people liked.
List all of the "new concepts" introduced in Ocarina.

>>8177842
there would also be
>actual combat based dungeons
>more than a dozen enemy types
>cryptic puzzles
>a raft item
>a ladder item
>a rupee economy regarding bombs, arrows and bomb carry capacity upgrades
>finite bombs that have to be purchased
>standardized enemy item drops
>potions would have to be purchased
>warp whistle
>power bracelet
>higher enemy density
etc

>>8178014
>>8178043
Zelda nes also has gating in the form of enemies. Good luck getting through level 5 and beyond without at least the white sword.
botw has no such thing, because even lynels and guardians can be walked around.

>>8178043
also, the final dungeon cannot be beaten out of sequence.

>>8178279
my first breath of the wild playthrough i got out of the tutorial and went straight for the castle since it's a giant landmark directly north
it's piss easy to sneak in and it's full of high level weapons and arrows
good on them for trying to make zelda more open, especially after TP and SS being absurdly linear, but jesus christ. there's a difference between having choice and making 99% of the game optional

>>8178226
It's funny, for how much TP dickrides OoT, TWW is the one that is actually tied far more closely to it story-wise. Whereas TWW references the events of OoT extensively and quite explicitly, TP has almost nothing to do with the events of OoT beyond the fact that it's the same Ganondorf from that game, even though it's never stated anywhere near as explicitly as in TWW. I always wondered why TP chose to only make vague references and callbacks to OoT. You'd think for how hard it tried to be OoT but bigger and better, it would at least tie itself to its story more closely, like TWW did.

>>8178349
Although, come to think of it, due to the fact that they chose to make it take place after the "child ending" of OoT, I suppose there's not a whole lot it could reference regarding the events of OoT. I think it's implied Ganondorf attempted his coup as he does in OoT before you pull out the Master Sword, but he fails and gets captured. I think I read in an interview with Aonuma that basically Link tells Zelda and the king what Ganondorf is gonna do, and they use that information to blindside him when he attempts his coup and capture him, or something. But again, it's only vaguely implied. Same with the ancient Hero they occasionally refer to, who may or may not be the dude who teaches you sword techniques, who may or may not be OoT Link, but again, no reference to him stopping Ganondorf. It's all very disconnected and vague.

>>8178279
Nobody has ever cared about item gating in Zelda. If you do, you just want Metroid.

>>8178413
>Nobody has ever cared about item gating in Zelda
they effectively stopped doing it in ocarina of time because story became more important than level design or freedom
anyone who really cared gave up on zelda 20 years ago since it stopped appealing to them

>>8178413
talking about differences between nes zelda and botw, child.

OoT kiddies hated WW because it wasnt OoT 2.
Everyone else hated TP because it WAS OoT 2.

>>8179316
WW was OoT 2. TP was OoT 3.

>>8179336
And what was MM, the actual direct sequel?

wind waker just seems like they took the comments about hyrule field being empty and doubled down like, "You know what's really empty? The open ocean!"

>>8179343
Yes, tard

>>8179316
>WW because it wasnt OoT 2.
Wind waker fans are retarded. Imagine thinking a game that so heavily copies its structure, setting, characters, etc from ocarina of time isn't related to oot.
There's fucking stained glass portraits of the oot sages and gorons and oot zoras and fucking kokiri forest, you pretentious dicklick.

>playing TP
>get to Kakariko Village
>oh man I bet it's much bigger and has lots more to do than it did in OoT
>nope, almost everyone died and there's fuck all to do
>later on hear there's a hidden town where a race that could only be the Sheikah live
>fuck yeah, I get to go to the REAL Kakariko Village, with actual fucking Sheikah
>NOPE it's deserted except for one granny and there's fuck all to do there

And don't get me started on Castle Town.

>>8179364
Yup. OoT's towns suck but they're miles better than TP's. OoT Castle Town must have fewer than 1 NPCs but it feels so alive. somehow they couldn't beat that a whole generation over.

>>8179398
10*

>>8173680

You need to spend more time online. People have always hated Zelda 2, hell, it's most well-known as the black sheep of the series.

>>8179405
Why is it the black sheep?

>>8179412
e-celeb said so

>>8179398
He meant twilight princess castle town

>>8179405
>>8179412
>>8179425
https://web.archive.org/web/20171119204634/http://gannon-banned.com/#zelda2best

>>8179343

Not him, but MM was OoT 1.5

>>8179473
Uh huh. And ALttP?

>>8179475

OoT 4

>>8179478

>>8179425

Zelda 2 has been shit on for almost 30 years. Miyamoto has even said that they returned to the Zelda 1 view for ALttP because people didn't like Zelda II. That's been common knowledge since always, dumbass.

>>8173938
how can you hate the choo choo train zelda? I haven't even played it yet but cmon! TRAINS!

>>8179425
Zelda 2 was received very well at release. The "it was bad" garbage was spited only in the SBNES era, and Nintendo planned on returning to Zelda 2 multiple times.

>>8177318
You will never be a woman.

>>8179493
>>8179425
Zelda 2 was received very well at release. The "it was bad" garbage was spited only in the SNES era, and Nintendo planned on returning to Zelda 2 multiple times. Even then - it's still a better game than LOZ, and there's nothing contrarian about that.

>>8173638
The problem is that aonuma has this tendency to cockblock the player from actually getting to the fun parts. Think of all the tedious bullshit you have to do between the start of the game and entering dragonroost dungeon in wind waker, or between the beginning of the game and doing the forest dungeon in twilight princesss. They seem more concern with padding out the game to an arbitrary length of time rather than having a well-paced enjoyable game. If the best parts of Twilight Princess are the dungeons, stop making me have to do mandatory fishing minigames, ox wrangling, lightning bug fetchquests, etc before I "earn" the privilege of entering the fucking dungeon.

>>8173654
>There are literally no bad games in the Zelda series

Zelda died when it went 3D
Change my mind
You can't

>>8181310
That's a big part of why OOT is so good. There's very little of anything I would call filler in that game.
People don't realise how important pacing is in a game. So many of the "best games of all time"TM, are just incredibly well paced games that don't waste your time, when you get down to it.

>>8181349
my mom died when she went 3d

>>8181370
to be fair, even OOT has some of aonuma's signature cockblocking in it. It's a minimal amount though and not beyond the pale like it is in later games like WW/TP/SS, but I can still see the nucleus of where the trend started.
But I still prefer the pacing that the 2D games like LTTP had where you could basically do whatever you want at your own pace with little/no filler.

>>8181371
I'm sorry for your loss. May her polygons rest in peace

>>8181383
I guess you could say that she's really poly-gone now

Zelda is my favorite series and I enjoy both games (WW especially) but they both have glaring flaws.

Wind Waker has a mostly empty, boring-to-navigate overworld, very few dungeons and a boring fetch quest to pad out the second half of the game.

Twilight Princess suffers from a long, boring story-driven intro sequence and the weird wolf sections that felt like they were tacked on just to give the game its own gimmick.

That said, the positives outweigh the negatives and I think they are both great games, especially Wind Waker, but their flaws prevent them from being at the top of my list of favorite Zelda games.

>>8181371

Reconstruct her. We have the technology.

>>8181327
Based. If this were reddit they'd have posted the CD-i games thinking they're being funny and smart.

>>8181327
This game is fantastic compared to these two abominations...

>>8181669
these are at least pretty unique. and when they don't make you blow to use the instrument and have the drawing being annoying precise, they're not that bad. that being said, triforce heroes doesn't really count either. it's like saying federation force is the worst metroid (ok maybe that's a bad example because other m exists but ya get what i mean). it's not a mainline game.

>>8181776
I don't understand how a game is determined to be "mainline". It's not like Nintendo comes out and says "alright guys, here's a new Zelda game, but it doesn't count!" There are obvious ones like Link's Crossbow Training, but why do people tend to consider Four Swords a true, proper, mainline Zelda for example, but not Triforce Heroes? TH is more of a complete game than FS was.

>>8181776
It is a mainline game. Hotel Mario is an example of a non-mainline game.

>>8181776
>>8181793
Triforce Heroes is mainline though.

>>8181958
Is it? Seems split 50/50 between those who say it is and those who say it isn't. What makes something mainline?

>>8173638
They do? I think most of them like both of these games, they just realize that WW has a lot of unfinished stuff and that TP didnt live up to the hype.

Now Skyward Sword? That's true shit.

>>8181793
The console games that aren't spinoffs like Four Swords are the ones I would consider "main line". Those are the flagship ones. Handheld titles are likely fobbed off on a B-team, not that some of them aren't among the better games in the series.

>>8182006
It was always billed as a follow-up to Link Between Worlds, so it's mainline.
It's pretty much just Nintendo and Capcom games minus Crossbow Training.

>>8173641
What a terrible post. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were both tedious retreads of OOT. There is nothing about those games that break any kind of formula

>>8173643
I just wish you could explore the underwater Hyrule more. Itd be perfect then.

>>8179361
You know what people mean by that, fuckface.

>Adult Link
>Riding Epona
>Dark, realistic atmosphere
>Kokiri, Zora, Goron, and Gerudo towns in the same places the were in Ocarina

There's a reason why everyone basically ejaculated to the TP reveal trailer; they wanted the Zelda after MM to be just more ACTUAL OoT, not a couple of references.

>>8182358
That's how literally every mainline console Zelda was doomed to be until BotW, and even IT has to rehash OoT shit.

>>8182513
And yet it failed at that. TP merely superficially resembled OoT, but it failed to capture its essence. Yes, all the races are there (except the Kokiri), as are their home towns, but they're all husks with nothing to them. Just consider the Gorons. OoT's Goron City and the surrounding Death Mountain area had a lot going on. Granted, most of those things were just little hidden prizes, but the game rewarded you for exploring its many nooks and crannies. TP's Death Mountain area and the Goron "city" (if you could call that little area where Gorons hang out a city) had close to nothing once you beat the Goron Mines. Same with the Zoras. And Kakariko Village. It's like they're just there because they had to be there, else it ain't OoT 2.0, but they made no use of them.

>>8182558
Why do you think the hatred for WW died down? The OoT fags got what they wanted, only to find out that it was literally just set pieces and nothing more. They finally got the Space World 2000 Ganondorf swordfight, only to realize that it was basically just a quick time event. Hell, the thing most people even remember about TP now is getting their first erections to Midna's ass.

>>8182641
>Why do you think the hatred for WW died down?
Younger people using the internet and defending their childhood game.

>>8182641
>Why do you think the hatred for WW died down?
yeah. it's definitely kids who grew up with wind waker and toon link getting old enough to use the internet.

>>8182676
Not sure if this is sarcasm or not but it's clearly what has happened. You'll find retards on this board defending Sunshine now too.

>>8182680
It's not sarcasm.
But I've found it especially noticeable since it started happening around 2010, when anyone who was still a kid when WW came out would be around 18.

>>8173638
Test

>>8173638
Probably for the same reason those two are my favorites, autism.

>>8173638
Test

>>8182513
>first boss is gohma
>the ancient red dragon the lives at Death Mountain, V-something
>visit the great deku tree and Jabu*-Jabu*
>beat three---- two dungeons and get the red blue and green orbs to open the way to the master sword
>everyone won't shut up about the hero of time
>uh oh that's what ganon wanted quick awaken the power of the sages to open the path to his castle
>whaaaaat Princess Zelda was secretly the tan skinned youth who spends the whole game helping you?
yeah Wind Waker is nothing like OoT at all. The only reason it can't ride OoT's dick any harder is because it's too busy riding its coattails instead.

>>8173638
Test

>>8173638
>wind waker
Annoying map, unfinished, Triforce quest that was actually apologized for
>twilight princess
Ugly, Quake tier palette, reddit tier nostalgia pandering/trying so hard to be Ocarina 2, Sonic Team tier wolf sections. Painfully 'okay'

>>8182737
not to mention outset island's theme is a remix of kokiri forest

>>8182641
Too high. Jeff's a moron, but he was right to bag it.

>>8182786
kek I remember when all the Zelda fanboys myself included got buttblasted over the 8.8. Then he went and gave the GC version an 8.9 afterwards, just to rub it in. Everyone took to calling him Girthman afterwards.

>>8182737
>>8182785
But try to explain that to people whi fucking hated its guts for looking cartoony and they'd laugh you out of the room. The sad truth of the matter is that OoT fags didn't accept it because it didn't look mature enough. Tetra could have literally called herself Sheik and they wouldn't have claimed it because it had to be OoT2 in STYLE not SUBSTANCE.

>>8182903
Exactly why WW is OoT 2.0.

>>8182513
>they wanted the Zelda after MM to be just more ACTUAL OoT, not a couple of references.
even joining the series after WW and TP released, I still want that. The Hero of Time's story is unfinished

>>8182721
'tism'd if ya do, 'tism'd if ya don't

>>8182925
What part, pray tell?

Only good thing about WW is that it led to Minish Cap being one of the prettiest GBA games

>>8183000
Not him but I'm guessing it's the fact that Link never found Navi

>>8182925
in tp, it's implied he's the hero's shade and just never found her. lingerin regrets and all that. some people think he married malon and tp link is just his great grandkid but ehh idk that might just be some headcanon i read a long time ago.

>>8183302
>some people think he married malon and tp link is just his great grandkid but ehh idk that might just be some headcanon i read a long time ago.
It's just the shipping obsessed autists in /v/. They're fucking annoying, regardless of the pairing or which particular zelda game.

>>8183000
the part that happens some time after Majora but before he becomes a ghost

>>8173638
They refuse to acknowledge anything that's actually better than their holy grail, OoT, because it invalidates their childhood.

>>8183396
To be fair, none of the games Aonuma has made have managed to be better than OoT either.

>>8173638
Because they're not retro

>>8183396
Zoomer here, Ocarina of clearly the best game. Keep crying about it nostalgiafaggot.

>>8183665
Not even the best 64 zelda game

>>8183686
I don't really care about your stupid contrarianism as you think Wind Waker is the best game.

>>8183396
People have gone to lengths to explain why those games in particular aren't as good as OOT. You have to actually explain what makes them better, and you playing TP when you were 8 isn't a valid argument.

I have not beat any Zelda game windwakr is the closest and 2nd is skyward sword :)

I liked it better back when Link was a wizard, or a wizzrobe in his case.

>>8173654
Imagine taking Arin Hanson's opinion on anything. It's largely due to his ramblings that people never gave Skyward Sword a chance.

>>8183764
I played TP after I graduated college. I never had an N64, tried OoT in an emulator, it felt like a shittier looking version of TP and dropped it. I'll never get past the graphics, I can't go back to that early era of 3D ever again after having escaped it, I always loathed those low poly graphics and stuck with my SNES until the 5th gen passed and I got a PS2. My first reaction to DOA 2 screenshots was like "wow, no more fucking block humans, the 3D actually looks good now."

>>8183665
Being a zoomer means your opinion is invalid to me by default. Even if you said TP was your favorite Zelda game, I'd still tell you to fuck off.

General Post: I never liked the Zelda series much anyway, 3 was the only one I really enjoyed and I never beat it.

>>8182441
Yeah, imagine if there were 3 more dungeons in there or something.

>>8176825
I can tolerate most Zelda games to an extent, I wouldn't dare say I hate Twilight Princess or Wind Waker, but there's some dislike or wishing it could've been more. I outright hate Breath of the Wild though. I can't play it without experiencing an existential crisis, I feel like I'm trapped in an endless empty void each time. I don't think the problem is that it's an open world either, but a lot of the NPCs, Quests, etc, they just feel so meaningless and weightless. It genuinely makes me depressed and I don't think many other games have done that before, the fact that it's so revered and celebrated makes me depressed even more so.

>>8186276
I got that feeling from Skyward Sword. Haven't played a new Zelda since. Well, most people seem to hate that game at least.

>>8177842
>>8178272
You're thinking of it too literally.
It's more the "feel/spirit" of Zelda 1 just going where ever, whenever is what they mean (at least that's how I view it). Who the fuck views it as LITERALLY Zelda 1 down to a T?

>>8186285
Skyward Sword feels saccharine, like it's covered with an awkward plastic veneer, but not nearly as empty as Breath of the Wild. I can understand both like and dislike for Skyward Sword, but Breath of the Wild genuinely baffles me that people enjoy walking around for 15+ minutes to get to an objective or meandering until they do.

>>8183392
>>8182925
No, fuck that. One game was enough, Majora was a bonus. You don't need a game to lead up to the shitty fanfic cameo that "Link" has as a shade in the future. If anything, it ruins everything if the character which you played as has tons of arbitrary story which you didn't even play and is fully divorced from his character.

>>8186345
>One game was enough,
Don't you have the BotW sequel to work on, Aonuma?

>>8176710
It features literally the same NPCs from Ocarina of Time. Termina is a parallel world to Hyrule in Ocarina of Time. You even use the titular Ocarina of Time and play the same songs. Maybe it feels more like a side story than a sequel, but it definitely doesn't stand alone as its own separate game.

>>8186302
You can't go anywhere in Zelda 1. More importantly you can't just fuck around and miss whole dungeons if you feel like it. That was never part of the experience, while it's the entirety of the experience of BOTW.

>>8186208
>it's bad because of graphics, and I haven't actually played it, and I don't like Zelda anyway

>>8186302
>It's more the "feel/spirit" of Zelda 1 just going where ever
Would you really consider Breath of the Wild and Zelda 1 to have the same esoteric cryptic atmosphere? Zelda 1 had a start to finish quest, there was set details, the game was fairly simple once you figured everything out and knew what to do, there was usually only one answer, but it's true you could do it in any order if you wanted.

Breath of the Wild is more expressionist and up for interpretation, you can do anything if any order yes, but the world and puzzles usually have more than one answer and interpretation. It's less rigidly defined. I'm tired of hearing this meme that Breath of the Wild is what Zelda would be like if it continued being like Zelda 1 just because they recreated early stages of the game in Zelda 1's overworld.

You would have an argument if Breath of the Wild managed to feature equipment, relics, and items similar to Zelda 1 that was required for dungeons and exploration that helped you uncover pieces of Hyrule. Finding equipment for progression is literally what makes a Zelda game a Zelda game for me.

>>8186741
BIG
FAN

>>8183302
He vaguely alludes to TP Link as being of the same "bloodline" as him, but that's it.

>>8186352
Context on that quote?

>>8186547
Well, it was literally called Zelda Gaiden when it was first announced, so yes, it was meant to be a side story, which nevertheless takes place months after the events of OoT.

god all these zelda threads are always a shitshow

>>8187314
I always hated how they never even tell you what he did. IIRC the only bit you hear about him is from Faron or whatever his name is, when he gives you the Hero's Clothes. All he says is that they belonged to the Hero who saved Hyrule long ago, and that his power is yours. I think the Zora Queen also says something similar when she gives you the Zora Armor. But it must have been some generic threat he saved Hyrule from, because Ganondorf makes zero mention about him, nor does he react in any way to the Master Sword or the Hero's Clothes, unlike in TWW. Hell, he completely ignores Link when they meet, like he's not even there, so it means those things mean nothing to him, i.e. he was not the threat that the Hero defeated. So what was it?

>>8186778
Well I for one like the changes and hope it continues further, but with proper traditional dungeons that aren't the same copy/paste interior design and NO weapon durability next time around.
Having more variety on tackling puzzles and exploration makes each playthrough a lot more interesting and fresh rather than gating your progression arbitrarily.

>>8187567
It's on-par with Sonic autism.
Though comparing the two, the Sonic fandom is a lot more autistic since it's mostly Kids vs. Adults since the franchise is a giant child magnet -- the oldfag fanbase acknowledge Sonic's varying finicky quality over time (with some overlap with older autists), while the other side lap up what they got as their first when they were 5, regardless of quality and claim the oldfags aren't the target audience and are wrong for dunking on it.

>>8187575
Never thought about that. Since TP is "suppose" to happen in the Child Timeline, Ganondorf would only remember Link as being the weird kid hanging out with Zelda when she snitched on him to the King of Hyrule.

>>8187889
That would be the gist of it, yes, though the game never tells us as much. All it says is that Ganondorf was blind to danger and got himself caught whilst plotting to enter the Sacred Realm. It took an interview with Aonuma to confirm that it was child OoT Link who helped Zelda warn the king about Ganondorf, though I don't know what Link could have done to make himself credible to the king when he didn't believe his own daughter's premonitions.

Come to think of it, Link has the Triforce mark at the very end of OoT when he goes to meet Zelda again, does he not? Maybe that does it?

>>8187554
Gamecube tech demo.

>>8187945
what was he talking about

>>8187715
reddit

>>8185115
when he was incel-shaded?

>>8187974
What about it, son?

>>8186302
>It's more the "feel/spirit" of Zelda 1
When I play Zelda 1 I feel good
When I play botw, I feel like bombing ninteodo's HQ.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found botw depressing.
Definitely one of my biggest disconnects from the gaming masses. I guess modern games just aren't for me

>>8187715 (1/2)
>but with proper traditional dungeons that aren't the same copy/paste interior design and NO weapon durability next time around.
Congrats, you understand the biggest complaints with Breath of the Wild. It's not that it's base gameplay loop is inherently bad, being open world isn't the problem, it's approach and variation from series norms isn't the problem. Nowhere did I state that Breath of the Wild is intrinsically bad game design, only that I dislike it how shallow it is. I want there to be more to it. Having a sequel in this case is genuinely a good thing in my opinion if they can fix the issues I had with the first.

The problem is that most of the game is arbitrary and weightless. There's no point to collecting weapons when they break so frequently. There's no point to doing shrines in the order you want to when some of them can be cheesed by coming back with excessive health and stamina. There's no point in doing things the way you want when everyone already has a preconceived perception of who Link is, NPCs don't treat you as a player, they treat you as some random historical figure from 100 years ago. Ganon is literally looming over Hyrule Castle, there's a constant threat, but time is irrelevant so you can fuck around. There's no urgency and I'm given no reason to care.

>>8188689 (2/2)
The problem I have is that in an attempt to try and make Breath of the Wild feel more accepted, people are parroting that it's somehow what Legend of Zelda was always supposed to be like, that it's more in line and a successor to Zelda 1. You have some people treating Zelda 1 with such reverence who wouldn't even consider it their favorite Zelda, don't care to replay it, haven't played it blind or when it was released.

Why does it being similar to Zelda 1 suddenly negate the idea of being critical towards it? This seems to ignore that people can also be critical of Zelda 1. Being first doesn't make something special by default. I'd much rather accept Breath of the Wild as it's own thing than lie and try to justify it as "Oh, but you say you like Zelda and this is what Zelda would've been like, so you must like it!"

>>8188227
I don't know, I just got an edgy try-hard redditor vibe from your post.

If BotW was half the size and more detailed it would be a better game. Also, the lack of spelunking was a missed opportunity. You had ruins everywhere and little to no engagement with them in any meaningful way. Should've had more areas like Hyrule Castle and the promenade, which even was sort of barren. I don't want Tomb Raider, but you used to explore temples, ruins, weird wells. I booked it for Hyrule Town and there's barely a reason to explore. Focus that shrine energy into a few more memorable dungeons, so unmemorable despite what critics say.

>>8173638
Along with BotW, they are among my favorite games ever and I could never get into any of the others, does that make me a monster?

>>8188689
>>8188691
botw felt any activity I did was a massive waste of time
the divine beasts all felt the same
It felt like I had zero incentive to actually help the world and fix the divine beasts
The powers and items I got felt boring
just such a depressing game . Everything felt so lifeless and spread out. There is no meat to my sandwich.

I just wanted to go on an adventure. Instead I just got depressed

>>8173638
Twilight princess takes way too long to get going. Getting two hours worth of tutorials dumped on me at the very beginning of the game isn't my idea of fun.

Didn't like OoT, and I've tried many times. Just doesn't hit the same spot all the 2D Zeldas hit, for me. TP was not as fun as seeing how hype people got about it before launch. And yet somehow, WW ends up being one of the only 3D Zelda games I really love. No clue why, but maybe it's because I "don't count" as a Zelda fan since I don't feel the urge to play them all.

>>8192176
I'm a huge 2D Zelda fan but the 3D ones just don't do it for me.
I like the look of TWW but I missed out on that era of games so I'm only now just going back to play GC/Wii games

>>8173643
Same here, it's my third favourite 3D Zelda without a doubt. TP is utter trash though.

>>8175191
I agree 100%

>>8192259
I don't wanna sound like some huge troll, but I unironically like the Tingle games more than Ocarina, even. Good luck getting through the games, anon, and always focus on having fun.

>>8192176
>>8192259
I don't really see what about wind waker would would appeal to a 2d zelda fan. None of the aspects I love about the 2d zeldas (specifically the pre-Minish Cap games) are present in WW.

you guys make me feel like shit because I enjoy the n64 zelda so much. I guess I'll never be a real fan

>>8192314
I don't think you sound like a troll at all and I've talked to other people that like the Tingle games more so you're not alone! Thanks, I usually focus on the fun aspect of the games so no problem there.
>>8192315
For me, it's just the aesthetic and theme, I'm a huge sucker for nautical adventures which is also probably why Link's Awakening is my favorite of the handheld 2D games.

>>8173638
I love poop

>>8192319
Keep enjoying it then, why would you let a bunch of etc etc basket weaving etc, change your thoughts?

>>8192334
because you guys are my friends and seem much more knowledgeable than me. I probably have poser tastes and you think I like those games because I haven't played many games or something.

>>8192315
The 2D games are cute, WW is cute, and they all make me feel like I'm some explorer mapping things out. Helps that my motion sickness doesn't come up much with the latter, strangely enough.

>>8192347
You don't need to know everything about a series to be a fan or know an acceptable level of things to be considered a "proper fan." All it means is that there's something there that you enjoy. It doesn't matter what that is, you can like something for it's visuals alone. If there's something about a series you don't enjoy, it's more than acceptable not to like that aspect and not put yourself through it. You don't have to force yourself to play every Zelda game if you don't like every Zelda game, liking a few is enough and fine enough to call yourself a fan, you don't need to try and convince others that you like something or prove that you're able to call yourself a fan.

Knowledge comes with time. Don't let people gatekeep or deter you for not being knowledgeable enough, you'll never reach that knowledge you admire if you let that happen and give up. It's paradoxical in a way. People will gatekeep those that don't meet their standards of what a fan should be, but no one will reach those standards if they aren't allowed to start somewhere. As long as you have a genuine interest and aren't seeking attention for it, don't worry about being a poser.

Also you should know not to make friends on 4chan.

>>8192347
>I probably have poser tastes
if you've always liked it then you're not a poser. either way you're better than a contrarian just for admitting you like something
>and you think I like those games because I haven't played many games or something.
the n64 zeldas are the best games in that nebulous genre of 3d action adventure dungeon crawler
other games have better combat or worlds or whatever but nothing is the complete package

>>8174756
I want to rape that imp.

>>8173694
i think that stuff is funny in a brian david gilbert kinda way but i would never expect nintendo to try to make the plot of their new games "fit the timeline" or some shit