/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8157441
>When should we have stopped caring about graphics?
Pong

>>8157441
I'd say the decline started with the PS1, don't get me wrong the system has plenty of great hits but there are a ton of companies that started making tech demos instead of games. The Dreamcast was pretty much the swan song. Once the PS2 was announced the hobby died. People cared more that it could play DVDs early on which is a stupid selling point and flooded the market with a whole group of normies that cared more about graphics than gameplay that lead to what we have today.

>>8157441
I think most people really don't if its a really good game. Its just thats a "selling point". Like I remember back in the day. With Tekken 3, Not only was it a good game with top of the line graphics.
Any body remember the intro cutscene when you turn the game on? i remember so many people being impressed by that and it wasn't even the actual gameplay.
Even my dad at the time was like
>damn this is a freakin video game?
lol you know?
I think just that allure of it
>looks better
>theres "more possibilities"
and you'll hear things from devs over the years
>well we made compromises with what we had
>now with this new hard ware it'll not only look better
>but be a better game
etc etc etc,

Me personally idc about graphics. i don't even have any of the modern consoles. not even the ps4, xbox one era. I mean why? theres plenty of good games on the consoles i got, that i haven't played

>>8157484
Based.

I think there was a good balance between quality and graphics in the sixth generation of consoles. That's why in that period there are so many great looking games that are still fun to play. In the seventh generation developers started to have a heavy focus on realism and the gameplay became more standard, which is why there are so many games that feel like others but with a different skin.

However, the decline probably started in the fifth generation and the jump to 3D. You can see how some games were mostly experiments to see what they could make with 3D graphics, but there was a still a lot effort to make games fun to play.
And I'm not trying to say "3D bad", because most of my favorite games are on 3D.

>>8157441
yeah the ps2 generation was capable of doing comprehensible 3d objects, characters and environments. cut off there and we're living in peak video games.
you could still have new hardware but keep the same modeling/ texture/ post-processing standards. just have bigger environments or more shit on-screen.

>>8157469
you had those way before. PC games especially were often tests of what the programmer could do with the hardware, even back when a "PC" was a speccy or ameeger. on NES a lot of the shooters were trying to push how many moving objects they could handle at once, which meant comical amounts of flickering or slowdown. games with complex animation made of multiple sprites ran into this too, dragon's lair is probably the worst of them

People like to lay the blame on graphics but I think it's more just the growth of the industry that was to blame. As games got more popular, publishers, and by extension developers, were pressured to sell more units, so they had to make "safer" games. They kept hiring to make their games better, but because they kept hiring they had to keep making better games.
If you're a small company, your overhead is low, and you can take bigger risks because you only need to sell a small amount to profit.

It just so happens that graphics were improving at the same time, and they're a much easier thing to point to than the nebulous "industry"

I think it's more the whole 1999 aesthetic that I miss. That meeting of hopeful futurism and 60's revival aesthetics. That all dropped off pretty rapidly after the Millennium for various reasons.

>>8157683
there are other factors but you can point the blame at retarded anisotropic filtering FSAA ambient occlusion or whatever for lowered frame rates and considerations like less enemies, smaller and more linear levels etc
the budget to make the game look "realistic" could have also been spent on other things

>>8157802
For sure, I'm not saying it's entirely one or the other. And I think the GRAFFIX problem has been getting exponentially worse since ps3/360 era.

>>8157441
Around the PS3 era, at that point we should've focused more on the scale of a game than the resolution of its assets.

>>8157843
This.

Same as this anon >>8157484
There are more games on psx and ps2 that I want to play than on PS3 and pretty much nothing on PS4 and 5.
Obviously there are nes/snes/sega genesis/dreamcast games that I want to play as well, sadly, new gen looks all the samey to me.

I mean, how many times I can cover behind brick wall with someone shouting in my ear what we need to do.
Platformers did not evolve at all ironically, racing games did not change much except became more realistic when I much more prefer RRT4 and TOCA 3 WTC or GT2 (though they were aiming at realism, all they've achieved is great style and comfy feeling)
Most of new games I see are just recycling previously created formula but instead of putting their own twist on it, they just all became kind of similar.

This is regretful but oh well, I wont gonna live forever and I certainly wont live long enough to play all the games I want on retro consoles anyway so, unless new consoles push something really cool, I am not interested.

>>8157484
>i remember so many people being impressed by that and it wasn't even the actual gameplay
I had a Dreamcast shortly after launch(first time I owned a current gen console) with Sonic Adventure and as much as I was blown away my normie family shit bricks. The leaps were incredible back then.

>>8157683
Yeah I don't believe its always graphics ether, another big factor highlighted in recent years is bloat content. Having a big expansive world is nice but if you've filled it with errand quests and repetitive gameplay you should have spent less time making the world big and more time finding meaningful content that is fun todo. I think a combo of focusing on graphics, bloat content, and pandering to the norm is what has made most games so stale.

I still don't understand why so many people found BotW so impressive. Yeah the world was big but the weapon and food system combined with the repetitive encounters made exploring the world significantly unfun and like they should have scales the world down and focused on the temples.HV0rm

>>8157441
Graphical fidelity is a meme; what people usually mean by "graphics" is pixel density and image crispness. If a game has a good story and engaging mechanics, most importantly, if it's fun, that should be what matters. I don't give a shit about ray tracing or whatever zoomer shit people are bitching about. I'll take picrel over Battlefield 2069 Tranny Coom edition.

>>8157983
>ray tracing
The amount of ZoomTubers that attempt to add ray tracing to retro games is growing astonishingly quick. Hopefully it dies off soon.

>>8157757
what else is more like this aside from space 5 and nolf

Current gen or last gen seem like the point where graphics aren't really going to improve any further.

>>8157939
>tfw 3d platformers died after 6th gen
What other genres did we lose
>Weird misc games that don't entirely fit in any genre died

>>8157441
Why Dreamcast specifically? This should apply to gen 6 as a whole, plus Wii. Play something like Pandora's Tower and it still has shit grafix like DC, but still has that soul youre talking about. It gets pretty tiresome seeing you segatards do weird flexes on this board.

>>8157952
Nice that musta been awesome. I remember back in the day my friend had one and all the newest at the time sports titles. Remember playing some tennis game on it all time. lot of fun

>>8158134
Shut up sonybros

when they can't really be improved on and only seem to get worse by using shitty effects like Chromatic Abbreviation (or whatever the fuck it was), post-processing blur, shitty lightning and weak coloring, so somewhere between 7th and 8th gen

>>8157983
I disagree. There's a bare minimum amount of effort I expect from graphics. It's a problem with indie games especially, where they think they can get away with half-assing the visuals as long as it looks vaguely like an NES game. I don't expect Metal Slug from a tiny studio, but I expect them to do their best.

>>8158125
I'd say shmups in the USA. They died unless you're into that shit. I'm sure theres tons of shmups on the ps2 but idr anyone having them. during that gen. I know they kept coming out in europe and japan.
even the xbox 360 has a sizable collection of shmups in japan.

>>8157441
Is this really the argument you are going with?

>>8158190
You'd probably be surprised at how many gen 7 shoot-em-ups got US releases. Even one of the fucking Otomedius games did.

>>8158125
Those misc games are a real loss tho.
Games like Katamari, Harvest Moon, Kula World, Incredible Crisis, Devil Dice, kurushi Final, Oh No! or even Super Galdelic Hour is one thing but, since 4th gen I remember there was a number of games that were particular genre with something special. Blackthorne, Wild Guns, Goal 3 (Also known as something kunio kun ...//... socker) Road Rash, Mortal Kombat, Silient Bomber, Front Mission, Vib Ribon, Pacman World, WILD9, Apocalypse, Klonoa, Tombi, Ballbreakers, Destrega, Ridge Racer series 1-5 and Gran Tourismo , Medievil, Spyro, Crash, Kingsley's Adventure, 40 Winks even those games that fit the genre pretty well like DMC, Okami, God's hand, Bully, MGS 1-3, jumping jack, The Warriors, earlier Final Fantasies 3-9 tactics included.
They all had something that distinguished them and if you look back at them, you will struggle to find anything as distinct as them, if anything, you will fail to find anything as colourful as those games where back then.

I know I am mentioning best of the best but at the same time, they illustrate my point, now you will struggle to find games like this, its not like Knack can rival Spyro or Crash. Its not like new tomb raider can even get near to the dreary atmosphere of the TR1-TLR and its not like GT6, however shiny it is can do the same thing GT2 did for me, forget about RR V, forget about platformers full of magical atmosphere, forget about games like Syphon Filter.
Most of those come from the psx and I wish PS3-5 would have the same amount of original and interesting games and sadly they just dont.
All I saw was generic BS that I lost interest after first level, meanwhile, I can still play older games and marvel at them (Played FF8 not long ago, I am glad I played it first so late, at least I could appreciate everything it had to offer.

I am also drunk so I am probably rumbling at this point.

>>8158204
ahh my mistake then but i still feel the genre kinda died in the us. Nobody really talks about them "casually" anymore if that makes any sense.

>>8158221
I miss misc so much

>>8158120
Splatoon

>>8158202
>post one of the worst examples of what the system was capable of and think your making a point
Do zoomers really think that only Sonic was on this system, surely you would have at least seen Shenmue or some arcade ports. Here have some illbleed

>>8158120
Wetrix, Chu Chu Rocket, Super Magnetic Neo

>>8157441
It's more about physics engines now

At least that's how it seems ever since gta4 since it hasn't improved a lot since that one. If anything it's regressed since that game

>>8158184
What I was trying to say is that graphics does not coincide with a strong art direction. Again, "muh graphics" usually refers to pixel density, excessive motion blur, and lens flare at this point. I would take high quality pixel art over any generic FPS made in Unreal Engine. Those kinds of games end up looking like glorified tech demos over actual games, because the studio is so concerned with how the games looks instead of how it plays and how it feels.

>>8157983
>I don't give a shit about ray tracing
I mean it's currently still kind of in meme status but that's the first graphical thing I've cared about in 10 years, global illumination that actually works is basically endgame for me.

It's kind of hard to say when, but I think the 5th and 6th generation of consoles should of had a longer lifespan.

Ultimately it is the consumers fault. The general consumer wants the next best looking game, which drives the demand for more realistic looking games to this day. Sure, it clearly was possible to achieve this since it happened. No one asked what the consequences would be however.

Thanks to the demand for better looking visuals, it became increasingly more expensive to make video games. This forced many studios to shut down, which ultimately drove companies to create the most wide appealing software due to the risk of a game not doing well.

The only thing that leaves me hopeful is that it kind of seems like we are/have reached the apex of realistic graphics. While we haven't seen too many games achieve this yet, there are plenty of tech demos and trailers for games that frankly just look real. Now that the apex has been reached, the cost of development should hopefully go down as time goes on. Hopefully by the time 2026 begins, the gaming industry will start to return to back to it's roots in terms of dev cost. Only time will tell if that will also mean a return to innovation and creativity.

Remember folks, your dollar has power and you should invest it into things that you genuinely support. There are Indie games being made for the people of this board, albeit they may be hard to find. Stop playing the triple AAA game.

>>8158515
I don't like indie games

>>8158521
That's like saying you don't like home cooked food. Indie games can be absolutely anything.

>>8158515
The current situation is very similar to that of the bit wars. The "quality" of a game can now be reduced to how well it runs at 4k60fps. I don't think I've purchased a "new" game outside of remakes in at least 5-6 years. I think I'll stick to emulation for the foreseeable future. The issue is that a lot of indie titles don't have the polish or quality that AAA studios can bring -- middleware used to fill that gap nicely but when was the last time you even heard the term middleware?

>>8158535
they can be yet they aren't. What a shame

>>8158543
THQ Nordic?

>>8158551
What would you like them to be?

>>8158332
>do zoomers
I’ve played through more Dreamcast games than you have mate
If you think Dreamcast was the be all end all of graphics you are deluded
Graphics in games have only gotten better, even recently
The problem is gameplay and audio, not graphics

>>8158554
A little bit less derivative. Less like poorly written fan fiction versions of games that were done better 30 years ago. More originality, less schlock.

>>8158579
I mean how many times have you come across a review for a game where they say "it's like a love letter to x genre" and they start comparing it to some older games. Then you play it and the in game text makes you cringe and the graphics are just slightly above what you would find on deviantart. Not every indie game is like that but so many are and I really hate it. I hate how they try to replicate NES or SNES or even PS1 graphics. They're imitating how it looks on a LCD with no filters or shaders not how it looks on a CRT and it's inauthentic and shitty looking. Imitating an old look isn't necessary at all, even if you're not trying to make a modern 3D game. To paraphrase the conversation from earlier it can be anything, but it fucking isn't.

>>8158579
Games like Superhot are pretty original in terms of what they're doing mechanically. And of course the multiplayer survival and battle royale genres have pretty much been the creation of indie developers in recent years.

>>8157441
What game is this?

>>8158590
PSO V2

>>8158585
And Roguelites. Almost entirely an indie genre.

>>8157441
Honestly?

Probably Prince of Persia or Arkham Asylum
In a wishful world they would have continued to improve but the Wii should have bombed post launch and the world collectively figured out how to implement crazy new, useful delivery systems to consumers rather than better graphics.

Voxel Worlds, mass warfare games, truly organic MMOs, Episodic content, modding tools, etc. All these things were tried (Arma, Planetside 2, Minecraft’s reign, Steam workshop, Telltale) but didn’t define a direction for games based on gameplay innovation first.

But hey, Graphics obsession is the iron lung keeping the VR dream from dying. It’s not all doom and gloom.

>>8158626
No vr game will ever be a fully realized game because of the fear of causing motion sickness. Rather than providing games to serve as stepping stones for 'vr legs' they decide to exclusively provide shallow experiences and workout games
My attitude towards vr has always been 'let people get sick '

>>8158134
It really doesn't apply. PS2 and Xbox libraries for the most part share the same modern aesthetic. GameCube had a slightly different aesthetic, but still doesn't stand out to the Dreamcast's identity

>>8158593
Ah okay, thanks. I was like damn this looks familiar but who tf is this character? Lmao.

>>8158661
>Dreamcast's identity
Lol you're delusional

>>8158794
he's right, fuck off

>>8157452
Lesser Chads can only dream of being this based.

>>8157469
It was the revolting inbred subhumans we call publishers and their parasitic leech "investors". They can only see an opportunity for financial gain, not imagination or creation. The only thing those pig-like, slimy sacks of putrid shit can imagine is lining their pockets through exploitation.

>>8158661
ps2 has the best library in video game history what are you talking about?

>>8158829
>best library in video game history
>85% shovelware

>>8158832
ps2 + psx is incredible how can you even contest this

>>8158184
>I don't expect Metal Slug from a tiny studio
Then you're part of the problem. Enjoy your white blob characters and """"retro"""" minimalist trash for the rest of eternity.
If you're not prepared to hold these morons to a higher standard, then you can't very well complain about being served shit when you keep wolfing it down.

>>8158839
>only one standard exists and it's the height of Japanese pixel artists in the 90s
yeah we get it, you're doing your minute of hate thing.

indie games play and look bland lol. They don't have the budget or raw creative talent to round out the game. That it they're just copying old games

>>8157441
>>8157441
> everything after the Dreamcast was the start of the sharp decline in the hobby
Yep. '97-99 was the absolute peak for gaming. There are a few factors involved.
Regarding what you seem to be alluding to... Having to work within tight contraints enhances creativity and innovation. Several studies have shown this to be the case. Up until the Dreamcast, the hardware was just barely powerful enough to realize the creative vision of the designers, so they were forced to be creative in order to get the hardware to do things beyond what it was designed to do. Every texture pixel and polygon had to count. This resulted in games that felt like lovingly handcrafted and special. As time went on and hardware became more powerful, designers had all the power they needed and then some. I instead on focusing their creative energy on maximizing what was available to them, they got lazy and focused on making souless visuals that impressed normies in screenshots and trailers.

>>8158852
what about all the cool games that came out later? Ps2 had a ton of cool stuff. So did xbox and gc in smaller numbers

>>8158835
read my post again, retard

>>8158863
Dude you if you hate the ps2 then you objectively just dislike video games and are a total fanboy

>>8158868
well, I don't hate the PS2, but if you think its library is anything but 85% shovelware then you haven't explored it enough

>>8158869
bro it's got so many hidden gems it's amazing. Ps2 is all you need. A snes and a ps2. Hell yeah brother I put my snes jr. On top of my ps2 fat. It's like a glove
Don't think I'll ever need more

haha hell yeah I love my psx 2 dreamcast doesn't have anything I want

>>8158847
>>only one standard exists and it's the height of Japanese pixel artists in the 90s
This but unironically

>>8158873
uh
ok

haha is this a ps2 thread now? What are ya playing? Man that ps2 is cool
I started playing metal saga. What a gem so far.

>>8158926
>>8158881
>>8158873
haha hell yeah bro brother love me the ps2, best thing ever made, fuck other consoles

>>8158860
When I said '97-99 was peak, I didn't mean everything before or after was shit. But there was a definite downward trend. Just look at the list of games that came out in 98. Even though the games industry was a fraction of the size it is today, never have so many genre defining classics come out in a single year. Today, the best gamers can hope for is a game that is a tiny iteration better than the other games in that genre, and that's when they get lucky.

>>8158134
>Play an absolutely terrible repetitive Zelda wannabe for Wii, it's got soul
No

>>8159001
yeah dude I love the PlayStation 2 so much . Not sure why it's cool to hate sony here. especially when sega put most their games in ps2 after the dc flopped.
Sega ages anyone

think I'm realizing that the only reason gamecube is my favorite console is be cause it's a poor man's dreamcast

>>8157441
Vidya graphics peaked with Capcom's CPS2. Everything went downhill from here.

>>8158794
He’s not wrong, there’s a new cruis’n game that just came out on switch which feels very much like a Dreamcast game

>>8157441
Crysis at the very latest.
The gap between modern titles and that game is narrow (pic related).

>>8157441
16-bit

>>8157441
You should always care about visuals in visual media. What you shouldn't care is marketing when it latches onto these things and misrepresents them. For example, teraflops or the number of polygons on screen at once does not directly correlate with coherent and pleasing visual design.

It's the same rule of thumb as always: disregard corporate propaganda. Propaganda is misinformation. Without exception, it exists to negatively affect your judgement.

>>8157441
I agree. Note how much more aesthetically pleasing DC games are compared to 6th gen. Limited tech forces devs to be more creative and forces us to use our imagination. Plus, if we used DC-level graphics with modern tools, then we could make games much faster and with higher framerates.

>>8157757
I just watched the one hour video of Techmoan going through a batch of old minidisk players he bought. I never had a minidisk player, but the designs on the players made me nostalgic for the late 90s/early 00s regardless.

>>8159734
So much of it is just trends though. Late 90's aesthetic was very cool and lively. 00's aesthetic was very grey, washed out, depressing. You can look at games like Timeslpitters that do carry that late 90's feel into the 00's, but they become fewer and father between.

>>8157441
Its because everything tries to be realistic instead of stylised

>>8158826
Cool it with the anti-semitic remarks

>>8157441
once they hit sufficient "realism" levels all games just started looking the same, games with their own visual style and character became a fringe niche subset

before that games had to push style and design in order to make the game visually appealing

>>8159203
Yeah, it does feel pretty Sega.
https://youtu.be/3px1hVaBgIU

>>8157484
Yes they do. The average person buying games cares more for graphics than anything else. That's why markets are the way they are. You may not, but that's not the overall trend.

>>8160243
this is true but it's a cyclical problem. trailers are 99% cutscenes. you get no sense of the gameplay or even what the game is with that. it's totally possible to cut together a 30 second clip that actually shows the basic gameplay loop of most things but marketers are coward bitches that attempt to wow with graphics
we also don't really get demos any more which exacerbates the problem. if you're lucky there's an "open beta weekend" or whatever the fuck
i'll probably regret namedropping this but P.T. was a Playable Teaser - an experiment to see if you could do a game announcement that wasn't a shitty commercial - and i wish we saw more of that.

>>8157441
When Microsoft entered the console market.

>>8160401
It's sonys fault you fanboy

>>8160401
>>8160426
brainlet takes

>>8160229
>>8159203
Is this the one they have in the arcades rn? The one that doesn’t give you an option to drive manual?

>>8158415
Raytracing is just a bullshit gimmick to justify even worse optimization in games. A barely touched up game from 2010 should not run this bad, but it does because we replaced competent programmers with tools that do everything with the click of a button. Come to think of it, this is why I can't get into newer games, they feel built from a template with plug-ins for different mechanics.

>>8157441
PS1 was the beginning, this is when Sony made gaming more common for adults. Thus a new group of consumers were born whos #1 want was graphically impressive games. Soon after they entered the market they became the majority and once that happened 90% of developers decided to pander specifically to them.

The death wasn't so much because of the graphics it was more because the market was flooded with people that cared more about the graphics than how fun the game was. Look to late 1990s to mid 2000s gaming magazines for more proof, when every game that wasn't 3D was immediately shit on and mediocre 3D games where given high scores just because "look at these visuals".

>>8160628
I hate gaming journalists. Imagine the 2d games we could have gotten in 5th and 6th gen

>>8160642
I agree even now journalists continue to give shit takes and when called out for it they act as if they are some kind of expert that shouldn't be questioned.

One of the Playstations best games was a 2D platformer named Adventure of Little Ralph that was planned to be localized. Magazine's around the time mocked it because "3D games were so much better" and "who wanted to play 2D games anymore". This combined with other 2D games not achieving the sells of 3D games lead to the localization being cancelled.

>>8158584
Y2K was exactly like that.

Remember games like Dragon's Lair? Graphically impressive but no real gameplay (because they were literally just movies)?

The majority of the modern gaming industry is just pumping out Dragon's Lairs.

Xbox was the point of diminishing returns. We've only increased resolutions and particle effects since then. Human characters look more plastic and uncanny valley than ever nowadays.

>>8160251
demos kill sales even when the product is good. A large portion of buyers are driven mainly by impulse and instant gratification, they want to open the box and play with the shiny toy. Once that new game smell is gone they lose interest.

>>8157517
Exactly. Continually increasing the graphical complexity is an excuse to make games with the same amount of content or even less content than in previous gens.

I stopped caring in the 360 era. That's when 3d graphics stopped getting meaningfully better. 2d graphics actually went the other direction though. Flash fucking killed 2d graphics for an entire decade.

>>8161330
>2d graphics
vector art is always terrible and pixel art on a hd display is almost always terrible

>>8157757
>the whole 1999 aesthetic that I miss. That meeting of hopeful futurism and 60's revival aesthetics. That all dropped off pretty rapidly after the Millennium for various reasons.
Fuck I'm glad about that

>>8161364
Not really. 240p consoles look bad because they are extremely low resolution and being scaled massively. Games made for widescreen and higher res can look great

>>8161561
nah, hd pixel art is an oxymoron

6th gen really was the end of gaming as an art form. The seeds of the future were planted and if you look at games that actually were popular, you could argue that 5th gen was the last pure generation. I live in fear of the future five years from now when the mods says that PS3/360 are retro. I can accept the Wii, PSP, and NDS because they were underpowered and didn’t really use online. But fuck me dude after 6th gen the graphics stopped being delicate works of art and just became generic

>>8161663
with how stagnant game conventions became after the start of the 7th gen I don't think anyone will ever make a reasonable case for the it being retro until vr takes over or some other shift. 6th gen has somewhat of an argument to stand on beyond sliding time.

>>8161782
No, it'll happen since the mods don't really give a shit about the consensus of the board and they'll just dictate it is retro at the end of this gen.

>>8161503
>Not liking late 90's upbeat futurism aesthetics
Guf really had dried up by 2001 huh. No wonder you zoomers are so dead inside.

>>8157441
Really, the improvements to graphical technology are good.
The problem is that the industry constantly falls into the realism trap while well done stylized graphics age much better.

>>8161868
I am personally a fan of 'Japanese realism', such as in Final Fantasy or Yakuza games. They're stylized enough to look good yet at the same time they have their own solutions to making realistic graphics, to this day the Japanese are the only ones who can make realistic hair. Unfortunately some companies are starting to 'westify' their games like Capcom, and Yakuza likes to use scans of real people which contrasts heavily against the stylized characters, and especially the PS2 looking NPCs. Judgment solved this by making nearly all story relevant characters modeled after actors, in a way being a virtual movie.

>>8161576
I also took a picture of this

>>8161576
The difference is so stark I honestly question if they're the same underlying image.

>>8161948
Bro thats just how CRTs work. You couldn't see individual pixels and everything just blended continuously in space

>>8161576
Higher resolutions let you fit more on screen, even with the same sprite detail. Of which SNES games are most definitely not the peak.

>>8161958
I know, but out of every comparison I've seen like that, this is the only one where it genuinely looks like a different image. All the others are much more marginal differences. Which game is that by the way?

>>8157441
Draughts 1951

>>8162101
>it genuinely looks like a different image
In what way? That's definitely the same underlying image. That one in particular really displays how good CRTs are at pixel blending. Maybe that's what's throwing you off, or the difference in color? Game is Final Fantasy 6.

>>8162157
not sure if autistic or you aren't a native english speaker

>>8162167
My post is fine, maybe you're just retarded.

>>8158661
>the Dreamcast's identity
what's the dreamcast's identity? arcade ports?

>>8162183
yes, mostly the 3D kind
I think Crazy Taxi kinda encapsulates the whole Identify

>>8161853
Let me guess, the 9/11 meme, right!?

>>8158221
What exactly did Mortal Kombat do that it stopped doing in later entries? Or the fighting genre as a whole didn't cover already?

>>8158832
even with this hypothetical 15% of the library it leaves us with 657 great ps2 games. dreamcast had 624 games released for it.

>>8162183
>>8162210
The patented Blue Skies aesthetic. Vibrancy, richness, energy, optimism, color, liveliness, zest and zeal for life.

>>8161576
>right
Stop posting dumb bait images from that retarded twitter user. You don't put your eyes up to a flat panel digital display just like how you don't sit at a crt with your eyeballs right up against it.

>>8162420
Not that anon but why is it bait?
Even at a distance more obvious aliasing is not as good

>>8162420
That image is from my own consumer tier CRT, anon...

>>8162440
comparison

>>8161663
What game is the screenshot from, anon?

>>8161958
>I will not break for 50 years
Yeah I wish.

>>8157441
>NES
Well, it's what we've got.
>SNES/Genesis
Hot damn, this looks great.
>PSX/N64
Whoaaaa, it's threeee deeeeee! Kinda looks like shit though.
>PS2/Xbox
Ah yes, finally, no more shitty textures.
>Everything past
Not much of an improvement. The nice thing about the jump from 8-bit to 16-bit was the huge graphical improvement. You really haven't seen that since. As much as I appreciated the jump from PSX to PS2, I was already playing games on PC that looked like PS2 games. I prefer the PS2 library over the PC library of the time, but to me games don't really need to look better than PS2. I'm a lot more interested in what RTX can do for retro games than new games.

>>8162673
>The nice thing about the jump from 8-bit to 16-bit was the huge graphical improvement. You really haven't seen that since
preferring retro graphics is not the same as saying it hasn't improved, just look at something like the new Tales game, it looks like the FMV's did on those systems

>>8162679
I mean the jump between say NES and SNES seemed a lot more significant than say PSX PS2. I'm not saying it hasn't improved.

>>8162684
I mean, I guess if you never went to arcades

>>8162673
>Ah yes, finally, no more shitty textures.
Maybe you should look at the grasstextures

>>8157683
I don't disagree, but I also think graphics were a big part of it. Every new hardware generation brought more opportunities for companies with more money to push the envelope on visuals, which effectively did more and more to push out companies with lower sales. The increase in graphics capabilities (and moreover, the expectation and demand by the end user to see them increase or else to not buy the games) was effective in making it easy for bigger companies to distance themselves from the smaller companies. "Indie" sort of starts to be a real, recognizable trend in the 2000s, because the game expectations of "AAA" (or just whoever is a well-known company) effectively kick out cottage devs and small teams, and the small fry proceed to rebrand what they do in order to stay relevant. It's my opinion that even by the early 2000s you had essentially created an impassable divide in the industry through graphics demands.

The other reason I point to graphics here is because it takes a long time and costs a lot of money to make the games at these scales. 7th gen is probably where we hit the crest of complexity, with anything above that being just the same with higher polycount. Look at metal gear solid 4 as an example. That game made headlines across gaming news when it came out that it would have to sell half a million copies just to break even. That was an unimaginable cost for a game's development at the time, yet now even half a million is considered a huge financial disappointment for many of the biggest games. I assert that a large portion of the budget goes into those high-level assets and hiring the numerous people required to make them (also, Japanese game workers are no longer paid as if they are unskilled laborers, which again pushes costs up).

I still take a similar stance to others however, that I ultimately don't really care about following new games, and I think that's just growing older anyway.

>>8158204
God I remember that e3 presentation, fucking incredible.

I also love how Kokoro is Julius Belmont's sister. Folks seem to conveniently overlook that however.

>>8158357
I remember watching a video recently about GTA4 and GTA5, in which they demonstrated that the AI had actually gotten worse from one to the other. They were on the same systems, so I can only assume they just threw out the work they did before for some reason.

>>8158658
It's not for lack of trying, everybody in the industry wants to ignore the sickies but they're the ones who will bitch and moan about your shitty games if you do. Then you get idiotic efforts like the final version of space pirate trainer telling you to play it in a 10x10 meter space. Who the fuck has a 10x10 meter space just ready to go for VR shit? That's like a damn gymnasium.

>>8158851
What about games like golf story or slime rancher?

>>8158851
Found the AAA shill bootliker faggot. :DDDD

i really think its just marketing
i don't think most consumers really cared THAT much about gfx. just game journos and people marketing new hardware

during the initial jump from 2D to 3D, you had all kinds of old franchises getting a new dimension added on top
even tho it was relatively impressive for the time, people were still always more concerned with if the game was good and fun to play. hence why OoT is still highly regarded, and things like bubsy3D are universally panned

the biggest issue, imo, was that the vidya industry started jerking off to the movie industry's earnings. they tried their damndest to carve out a slice of the movie audience for themselves
the result was a bunch of games that looked pretty, but had little in the way of gameplay innovation. eschewing the most unique aspect of the medium the interactivity, to try to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
even back then, most people who had been gaming for a while could see these shallow experiences for what they were. the problem was that the companies doing it didnt care. they knew their old consumers were likely to buy it out of habit, while their new consumers the former movie aficionados/non-gamers would be drawn in like moths to a flame

it worked, they all made a shit ton of money, and they never looked back

>>8160930
Even dragon's lair gets re-released constantly now, the switch has a port as do PC, other consoles, and I'm pretty sure there's a version that works on bluray players too.

PS5 looks like PS3 shit to me. It all looks the fucking same at this point. I don't care about graphics anymore and I'm not impressed by them.

>>8161782
You're dreaming if you think the mods aren't retarded enough to just base it on passage of time, because that's exactly the flimsy excuse they've used already.

Playing casually for almost 40 years and it's harder and harder to get people's attention. Most are just completely over-saturated with it.

>>8162818
aAA is bad toob

>>8161875
You might also just be noticing that Japan just has good aesthetic quality. I don't know what it is, but people from that country just make more beautiful things than people in, say, the US. America in particular is big on "cool" and "powerful" but not really "beautiful"

>>8162183
One last desperate swan song by a company whose engineering and design brilliance is only matched in scale by the petty incompetence and gangster corruption of its management.

>>8162440
This chick looks like the girl from Clock Tower, but also kind of like Jennifer Connolly. Did someone at Square have a huge boner for her or something? I mean no one can blame them, but Tifa looks a lot like her as well.

>>8162824
Your comment about the movie game shit is part of why I never got why people liked Half-Life 2. I mean I played it in 2008, not 2004, but it's not like I played a ton of games that took after it, so I wasn't just spoiled by other games copying all of its popular tropes. I've just always been confused instead. Like, it's a hallway, and instead of cutscenes you can skip they put you in a room and script the cutscene in real time. Where's the gameplay? Aside from that it's like nothing but jerking off to physics gimmicks and shitty vehicles. Always smacked of a blatant story over gameplay game. Never made sense that /v/ dickrode it so hard despite being stereotypically "anti-casual" and such.

>>8162991
HL2 was relatively novel. it was a very nice engine for its day. and the way it handled its cutscenes was similarly unique at the time i still prefer no cutscenes/skippable ones tho obviously
and while i dont really like FPSs, HL2 definitely still has some decent gameplay at its core
the problem comes from taking that story presentation style, stripping out the gameplay to appeal to non-gamers, and focusing on making a "cinematic experience"
not only does this balloon the budget entirely out of control and suck resources from far more important design aspects, but it makes for much shorter, much less replayable games
end result is a bunch of completely forgettable """games""" that succeed in neither being fun games, nor interesting movies

thankfully, i think even most normalfags are growing tired of the blind pursuit of muh graphics
you look at late PS3 games, and compare them to recent PS5 games, and aside from output resolution, theyre practically indistinguishable
imo, eventually desu, prolly this gen or next there will come a time where the ridiculously high price point of a new console will outweigh the "shiny/new = GUD" factor, and theyll lose a lot of both their movie consumers, and their gamer consumers

the real draw of vidya isnt the hardware, but the software
and since all the AAA software seems to be developed by hollywood-rejects nowadays, itll likely collapse under its own weight at some point
hence why so many of these companies are now more focused on trying to cater to the chink market again, inspired by the movie industry, and other intl markets that arent so hyper-saturated and desensitized to their overpriced shovelware garbage

also
>Never made sense that /v/ dickrode it so hard
do they now?
lol
i remember years ago it was always lauded as the literal "beginning of the end" of vidya, even if it wasnt considered outright terrible in and of itself

>>8160687
Kinda ironic most of ps1 titles that didnt got old with age are 2D

>>8162968
I blame SOA for a lot of fuckery. Or any American branch of any international company in general.

>>8163270
No you're wrong
It's not Bernie's fault
It's not Toms fault
It's not Nakas fault
It's not SoAs fault
It's not SoJs fault
It's Sega's fault

Any in-depth look into Sega history beyond surface level memes will reveal the entire company was floundering. Every vaguely leadership position was floundering and failing and miscommunicating and being macho and standoffish

as an aside id say Bernie is the most innocent of the big names

>>8162262
Nicely put, while I never had dreamcast when growing up and my console was psx, this is what I miss about old games, somehow they were able to make you believe your future will be good.
The technology and science will develop in a way that will make our lives better, the people will be better.
The blue skies, the music was upbeat, its not only dreamcast aesthetics, its pretty universal for the time period.

And its not because now I am older and jaded and back then I was ignorant and hopeful, playing older games now makes me feel things wondering, how come older games cand show me better future and how come everything is so dystopian now.
Those games were just made in another, more positive world, in another state of mind which is why they radiate those qualities so much comparing to modern games.

>>8163332
I felt that one, anon, i imagined the same thing when playing pokemon on gameboy, how it would look in the future like big real matches...it was disapointing


Also i personnally think the limitations was part of why the music, graphics, gameplay felt so endearing and fun

>>8163367
>Also i personnally think the limitations was part of why the music, graphics, gameplay felt so endearing and fun

I agree with you anon, while simpler colour pallet could enforce use of less realistic and simpler but more defined colours, there is obviously much more that went into it, colourful games is one of the hallmarks of that era.

While I am struggling to point on all the aspects which made those games so distinct and full of personality, I think that later 90's style is something that naturally evolved from limitations of that time.

Its surprising how much magic does Medievil or Kingsley Adventure can convey especially noticeable when you start to look for something similar.

How lighthearted and relaxing Spyro can be, the Dark Hollow level is a nice example, comparing with remaster, its brighter, more colourful and the whole level feels more dreamy (probably thanks to all the untextured polygons).
I know that the remaster looks and sounds better however original Spyro feels better, despite obviously being inferior when it comes to pure visuals.

Its the same with Tomb Raider, Tomb Raider feels almost horror like (in some aspects it is) however, not being able to see an end of a long hallway made you thread with care and anxiousness.
Croft Manor in TR3, had a dreamy like thick atmosphere and that was just the tutorial.
Limited draw distance created a very eery mood that fit the game quite well, after all, you are in a tomb full of undead enemies, a reminder what becomes of all civilizations eventually, its full of traps, a parting gift from said civilization and your enemies are wild animals and some shady organisations... what could fit better?

Ape Escape with its nice bright colours that makes everything popup, MGS with its nice toned down greyish/olive pallet (Compare with MGS GZ and V)

Then, there is <<< this, pic related oddball, how can a game made in 97 hold so much more personality, than many modern games?

>>8158515
Considering the current gen of consoles is less of a no gamestation and more a no consolestation, with low chance of this changing in the future, more people might start looking back at this point

>>8157441
6th gen was a good place to focus on environmental interaction and animations over graphical detail on textures and models

There's no mandate on /vr/ to become as pretentious as you can be.

>>8158543
>middleware
Killed by the likes of ROBLOX and Minecraft, unfortunately.

>>8158515
>it became increasingly more expensive to make video games
One look reveals MARKETING killed it, at least in my eyes. Now-a-days, the average triple A game has something like twice its game development budget put into marketing.

>>8163367
>i imagined the same thing when playing pokemon on gameboy, how it would look in the future like big real matches...it was disapointing
idk, i thought the pokemon stadium games looked pretty good at the time, at least for N64
the sad part is that the stadium games arguably had better animations for all their mons/moves than the new games like sword and shield do
GF is the laziest fucking company in the world. they have the most profitable IP in all of vidya, and they know it, so theyve just been shitting their pants for goin on 3 decades now

>the limitations was part of why the music, graphics, gameplay felt so endearing and fun
for sure
with more crude graphics, your brain has to fill in the gaps for you
but once gfx started being pseudo-realistic, that part of your brain gets shut off, as youre just interpreting the gfx directly
and thats how you end up in uncanny valley

>>8157469
The hobby died thanks to the wii
retard

>>8163332
I remember watching some e3 video on tv(nintendomania), I had some much hope back then for videogames, like seeing all the cool stuff that was coming out
If only my child self knew how bad thing would become

>>8164604
Nah zoom zoom, it was the ps2, arguably ps1

This is the right take >>8164678
>>8164604 The Wii came out long after normies ruined what was good about gaming anon, if you didn't known considering you probably weren't born yet

>>8157441
PS2 and Gamecube both had great games. Even Xbox had some real gold. Wii was pretty good as well, as it was a glorified Gamecube anyway. It defenately had the best platformers released post 2000.

PS3 and 360 is when the sharp decline happened. Like, sure; there was a decline from gen 5 to gen 6. But it wasn't across the board. Some genres hit their peak in gen 6. Like racing games, sports games, fighting games, a lot of people would agree JRPGs, vehicle combat, even survival horror. Those genres are ultimately done best on gen 6 hardware
But gen 7 ruined everything.

All of an sudden, every game took 300 people 5-7 years to develop, used mocap tech, full voice acting and a lot of other throwaway fluff AND WERE STILL SHIPPEDN
UNFINISHED.
Even the best games that gen have "content" which was basic, simple gameplay set on repeat for 40 or more hours. But most games were hallway shooters

>Stealth series? Hallway shooter sequel on PS3.
>Action adventure series heavily based around exploration? Hallway shooter sequel on 360
>survival horror series? Hallway shooter multiplat sequel
>Beloved JRPG series? every gameplay, graphical and control element you'd expect in a hallway shooter, and half automated combat!

THAT was when things really went to shit. There was still a lot of good to be found prior to that.

>>8164727
One huge problem which started in gen 6 was so called openworld games:
>50 hour long game
>35 of said hours is spent jogging or driving towards one waypoint or other
>repetitive as fuck missions
And it's only gotten worse since then. With games like this getting longer and more repetitive.

>>8162218
Not really, just being born after 1999 in general.

>>8161853
We still had our own shit. Little lego robots moving about in a bedroom, that was cool.
(The game is ROBLOX, and the starter place used to be a bedroom)

>>8164739
50 hour open world games feel like they are full of bloat so they can achieve the 50 hours. I always feel like you could safely cut out 20-30 hours of it and only improve the experience.

>>8157441
I agree that after the Dreamcast, gaming declined a lot. But I still enjoy plenty of new releases. A good game is a good game, and not playing something good just because it's retro or not makes no sense to me, which unfortunately seems to be the mentality some anons here have.

Ya know I could settle for GameCube era graphics forever and I still play my Genesis often but the anti modern graphics shit I'm seeing here really shows how mentally ill some of you are

>>8165456
Modern graphics are horrible for games

>>8165371
I bet this anon is the guy who always brings out that massive list of trash forgettable indie games whenever people shit on modern junk

>>8165456
>i don't disagree
>the people i don't disagree with are mentally ill
Uhh ...

... okay?

>>8165461

Outside of inflating dev costs... Why?

>>8165468

More like I would settle though I want better but people who want to stop advancing are mentally ill

>>8165469
That's like 99% of it. AA and AAA games don't take risks anymore because they all costs tens of millions of dollars to make.

>>8165473
>advancement is always good!
I'm way more educated on tech than you are, no it's not.

>>8165498
>appeal to authority fallacy

If you're so smart make articulate why

>>8157441
>when should we have stopped caring about graphics
5th gen. A ton of 2D games of that gen were overlooked because they didn't jump to 3D, and a ton of series did not transition well to say the least.
>When did I stop caring about graphics
7th gen was when I stopped caring outside a few exceptions. The "HD" push in the late 2000s had a lot of games with wide, empty spaces with reused assets, plus models looked very "plasticy".

Indie developers are bringing back the glory of 2D and I’m ok with that

>>8164834
This thread is major bullshit retardation and so are you.
We keep play the game of life pretending shit is objective.
I'm 34, to me the late 1990s are the dark brown depressing ones, i prefer early 2000s to late 1990s.
I'm 34, I don't rim so much ass for the 1980s, i prefer early 1990s.
That doesn't mean i don't appreciate shit anyway, i post this to let you know that you have no objective truth in your posts.
We project our conscience into anything, that's a way to survive, memory, VR is the end of it all, there's no such thing as graphics argument.
Power fantasies, fulfillment, satisfaction what the fuck ever, games, virtual simulation.
Art is just passion, sentiment, something which establishes our attachment to life.
And if you think oh yeah i'm sorry late 1990s were shit for you or stuff like that, well they were actually fucking heaven compared to what i had in the past decade and such tbfhwy, i raped/played the shit out of my playstation, played ton of shit in general, i fucking lived thru that era, what you think!?
Today is different, i gained more consciousness about my life, and in retrospective i see things differently.
Therefore remember this from now on before posting your memes, there's people born in the past century who actually prefer the 2000s over the late 1990s.
So fucking tired of people bashing the 2000s ffs, they are bad cause...oh well they just are, fuck you i like em.
It would be funny if i'm even older than you.

graphics should had stopped at the 1999 final fantasy 8 dance demo for ps2. 3d graphics at best should had plateaud at ps1 fmv levels.

>>8165456
its just a huge waste of resources imo
it ends up sucking up 90% of the dev time, doing mo-cap and other animation sorcery, having huge bloated textures, forcing voice-overs for every line which itself dramatically reduces the amount of text/dialogue that can be in-game, the incredibly tedious lip-synching animations for all dialogue, and all of these things compounding to cause more and more technical bugs etc etc
all for the end goal of "realism"

but realism isnt something thats technically possible at the moment, so its all for naught. getting so close, but not all the way there is what puts you in uncanny valley
whereas if theyd just accept that we arent there yet, and do some art style that plays more to the systems strengths, not only will it look much better and be easier to dev, but all that time and money can be focused on tightening up the gameplay and doing bugtesting etc
but nope, most games nowadays get released (at full price) full of bugs and glitches, and for all that effort on photo-realism, they end up looking dated in a matter of only a few years

>>8157441
good physics (hair, fluid simulations) are still not a thing

>>8161853
Isn't the y2k tumblr weirdcore shit for zoomers though?

>>8165662
>Indie developers are bringing back the glory of 2D
AHAAAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>8165662
can't believe I missed this post
Go fuck yourself

>>8162657
Parappa smokes up with Dontrel (penis stuck in the car door edition)

>>8162667
Explain my great grandma's TV still working like she bought it yesterday, then?

>>8166295
>incredibly tedious lip-synching animations
Lip synching is usually done by an algorithm and not by hand these days, but I agree.

>>8164980
You mean Blockland?
Wound up dead for a variety of reasons but had an awesome and intuitive scripting system.
Both that and Roblox fell by the wayside because of Minecraft, but Roblox would go on to turn into what it is now.

>>8158202
>>8158332

Isn't SA1 one of the first video games to have realtime 3D characters with full facial animation scripts actually?

>>8169415
No actually, this is a common misconception whenever I bring it up, but Blockland isn't the game I'm referring to. ROBLOX's early 2006 starterplace was a bedroom. I am still looking for my old RBXL for proof...
Anyways, Badspot blew a gasket at this when he discovered this, thinking ROBLOX was a poor clone of his own game. Apparently, this was so bad that it caused all references of Blockland to be autoban on ROBLOX, through the ROBLOX ingame filter back in the day, back when it just sent a signal to give you a punishment every time you used a specific word. The filter's name is diogenes.fnt by the ways, and I think it stopped being used in 2014, with the whole advent of the AI based filter system.

>>8169427
oh shit I remember now.
I forgot all about that.

>>8169446
Yeah. The amount of shit I know because I'm an originalfag...
Another thing is that "little lego robots" actually refers to the name of ROBLOX itself. Portmanteau. Robots, and blocks.
Blockland goes for more just lego figurines, in my opinion. They don't look too much like robots, to me anyways.

>>8157983
You know ray tracing is in old games? I just beat Biohazard battle the other day and it had someone credited for a ray tracing feature in the game.

>>8169481
>You know ray tracing is in old games? I just beat Biohazard battle the other day and it had someone credited for a ray tracing feature in the game.
lol

>>8169449
>actually refers to the name of ROBLOX itself. Portmanteau. Robots, and blocks.
HOLY SHIT TOP SECRET OLD FAG INFORMATION thanks for the hot news, old fag. All those formative years wasted on image boards surely paid off.

>>8169519
Hey, you're the one who didn't understand that I quite literally meant it when I said
>(The game is ROBLOX, and the starter place used to be a bedroom)

>>8157441
You are absolutely retarded.

PSO art direction unironically makes it look better than majority games you see on the fucking switch these days lol

>>8169543
>majority
that's a bit of an exaggeration

>>8169554
If the polygon count was slightly higher to give it more detail, I could completely see it myself.

>>8162657
Just seeing this. Its Magic Pengel: The Quest for Color (PS2)

>>8169556
No, it definitely look better than a few games (looking at you gamefreak) just saying majority is an exaggeration

>>8169562
To be fair, I've only played my Switch for a few things, and it does look better than that, so from my view, it looks better than most Switch games.

>>8169562
This looks more appealing to me than Bayo 3 lol

>>8169570
that's OK, it's why we are on /vr/
but geometry in this game is very primitive

>>8169581
>primitive
Nope

>>8157469
>PS1 more tech demo than game
Exactly. There is some exceptions like metal gear but not many. MYbe the 2d games as well. But as a teenager I thought ps1 was the best shit ever now I look back and realize N64 was better. Nothing in the ps1 library can touch oot or Mario 64. Fight me.

>>8171580
What a daring and controversial opinion, you should work at kotaku

>dude the industry must stagnate because I find this one game from 20 years ago look appealing to men now.
Definition of mental sickness.

>>8171583
But the modern industry IS bad. It's very stagnant.

>>8171581
you're literally mocking this guy for not being a pointless contrarian and going against what he genuinely enjoys. You're like those assholes who think that if someone's favorite game is OoT then they haven't played many games

>>8171584
In his world games would stop in 99, now tell me with a straight face the dreamcast didn't have any good and better looking games in the 00s same for the PS2 and it's library.

>>8171590
you're splitting hairs in a way that doesn't matter. We're talking about a difference of 5 years of a time period that was 20 years ago. It doesn't change that modern games suck ass.

>>8171580
I don't even feel like it's worth playing the whole game of comparing them at this point. I like both. The N64 had some of the best games of the era, but the Playstation had a lot of variety. I'm not eight anymore. I don't have to pick one and then relentlessly defend my consumer choices.
As long as we can all agree the Saturn was irrelevant.

>>8171601
I do have to pick one though because I'm not gonna keep both in my house and the PlayStation uses cds so it automatically loses. Fuck dealing with dialing drives and rotting discs.
As well as me thinking the n64 has the real peak of the era on it. Really refined games. But the psx has more devs that played those n64 games and then made 5-10 spiritual follow ups each. Psx has rpgs too.

Nintendo should have put some western rpgs on the n64 like how they were able to put all those shooters. Just for the sake of variety.
Ah well

>>8171593
Too bad because modern games are just fine. I enjoy my Wasteland 3, Total War and Mound and Blade just fine.

>>8171612
you've stretched the term modern game too far

>>8171621
I don't think so. If graphics stagnated in the dreamcast era games like Total War wouldn't be possible today.

>>8171627
what are you even trying to argue anymore

>>8171648
That the "special feeling" OP talks about is bullshit nostalgia for a 2 hour game that puts you on a grind loop for 1k hours. There is no objective argument or proof that modern games are bad and the only motivation for such feelings is burnout or misguided nostalgia.

>>8171621
not as far as RETRO

>>8171678
but you yourself only listed 10+ year old games when trying to defend modern games
And pso is the best game of all time to be honest. I could never go online when it was contemporary but it was still incredible

>>8171678
>there is no objective argument or proof for an opinion
Are you very smart?

>>8170563
the land is literally mostly made up of square environments

>>8172380
Advanced square