/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8140039
Just get an FPGA.

>>8140060
Fpga is ewwie imo. I get major ew vibes
I'm a zoomed(sorry I know). It's hardware or the highway . Hardway or the highway. Hard gay or the highway >>

$199

>>8140063
>when your brain has been wired from birth to CONSUME PRODUCT but you have just enough self awareness to realize how hollow modern PRODUCT is so you fetishize PRODUCT from before you were born
Many such cases.

>>8140063
Some upper-end ARM / FPGA combo is probably the way to go in this case.

>>8140070
if you say so. You can go deal with your consumption stuff however you want man. Me? I haven't bought anything but food in over a decade

>>8140070
You're on the retro game board of an anime site. Have some self awareness my man.

>>8140108
no but he's a based monk he hasn't bought anything. Aside from a gaming pc and upgrade. And a mister. And a crt. And flash carts and an ode.

>>8140108
I'm almost impressed you manage to miss the point so completely, but perhaps that itself should be revelatory.

>>8140118
Slit your wrists my man

>>8140118
I think the only one missing the point is you. We understand your post, it's just not profound.

Long story short it's just not going to happen. A billionaire could probably accomplish it as a passion project, but no one would ever turn a profit on such a venture even if there aren't copyright issues preventing them from selling it.

You take economy of scale and RnD costs for granted. Making stuff is hard.

>>8140129
No, you don't, but that's okay.

>>8140149
how much money would it cost? /vr/ loves the saturn and I know some of us are rich. if we all pool our resources it could happen
I mean just look at saturn system prices and then you need an ODE on top of that.
The sega saturn is the 4chan system. We must keep it alive !!

>>8140152
Yeah he does. He understands you more than you do. You can't even defend yourself. Go read Ellul.

>>8140161
It doesn't have a price, zoomie. Manufacturing doesn't work like that. If you want to throw money at a wall to get something magically done it's going to cost tens or hundreds of millions. If you want a product line it's going to cost ten times that plus time and face time to establish relationships with fabricators as well as presenting them with a long term business opportunity that can convincingly be productive and profitable for a long time to come.

Either that or you just buy the prefab stuff from China and hey guess what, they don't make the parts you need because nobody else wants them.

>>8140101
Nice larp. Tits or it didn't happen

>>8140113
Don't forget all the dlc and cosmetic items he has bought

>>8140180
Yeah it does. Tell me the price. I can do it.
We must save the Sega Saturn!!!

>>8140161
While your shameless desire to consume branded product is noted, there is no market for this. Collectors, both speculative and nostalgia driven will continue to buy original hardware, and gamers will continue to emulate via software or FPGA.
>>8140179
No, he doesn't, and again, that's okay. The fact that you're still trying to shake it off, and will continue to do so after this post, proves that it hit home.

Emulation is better than real hardware.

>>8140212
I want it though. That means others do too.
>>8140218
Emulation sucks in my opinion. It's just not the same

>>8140212
Shake what off? You haven't said anything lol

>>8140212
why are you trying to deny and distract from our mission of saving the Sega Saturn?? If they do a saturn mini the same way they did other minis it'll never be good. This custom saturn mini is the only option

>>8140220
>>8140241
>I want it though. That means others do too
Not nearly enough to cover the R&D that would have to go into the board, then you need to place a very large order of these chips, and high production costs translates into high consumer costs. They would, at minimum, cost more than buying a Saturn on Ebay right now, so if you were in it for the original hardware and willing to drop a couple hundos, you'd already have done so.
>If they do a saturn mini the same way they did other minis it'll never be good
Other minis are using off the shelf SOCs running substandard emulators for exactly the reasons I've listed above.
>This custom saturn mini is the only option
It's not. Your best case scenario here would be them simply taking an off the shelf FPGA, say, a DE-10 (imagine that), and hiring a team to write the core using official hardware docs. Would still have to run around $200, but with an off the shelf board you can deal with much smaller quantities at a time to mitigate risk. Maybe a limited run in 2024 for the Saturn's 30th anniversary or something.

>>8140063
>Fpga is ewwie imo. I get major ew vibes
That's because you think there is some woo-woo magic inherent to playing on original hardware.
There isn't.

>>8140039
>emulation
>shitty
You're retarded. You also haven't accounted for inflation.

>>8140456
Emulation is shitty for post 4th gen

>>8140067
198

>>8140039
Simple, well documented hardware like the NES can be reasonably replicated in hardware at a moderate cost.

The problem is that the Saturn's hardware is as far from simple and well documented as you can possibly get.

>>8140497
Isnt the saturn well.documented though? It's just that it's all in japanese and sega doesn't want to share. But if the mini had sega branding than clearly a deal would need to be worked out
Sega is literally going to skip the saturn and go to dreamcast mini.
Sega..needs our help...

>>8140462
The only 4th gen console that matters (PS1) is emulated well.

>>8140101
Man, you must be one fat fuck.

I don't really think this shit matters at all cause there's never gonna be a mini console worth a damn for a system that hasn't already been emulated better on PC. If N64 emulation was developed enough to where you could run everything pretty accurate on any crappy $200 laptop (or budget-grade ARM SoC), there would be a N64 mini now. So the thing to advocate for is development of software emulation to higher and higher levels, everything follows in the footsteps of that.

fuck you, son of a bitch

>>8140920
>So the thing to advocate for is development of software emulation to higher and higher levels, everything follows in the footsteps of that
I disagree, since more accurate emulation has always come with greatly increased CPU requirements. The types of emulators running on those ARM shitboxes are not the flagship accurate ones, but cut down and out of date versions.

>>8140039
System on a chip approach. Still expensive to figure out and design. Not sure if a Saturn Mini would be guaranteed returns if the system ends up pricey.

>>8140063

>>8140220
>>8140462
>not free
>disc based games can be scratched
>no speed up
>no save states
>takes up space/good luck moving
>can be stolen
>can be lost in a fire
>can’t hide your power level
>need physical cheat devices
>can’t play translations/hacks

>>8141247
B8

>>8140361
Self-delusion is all fine and dandy but in the end, the reason you keep making these posts is because deep inside, you know emulation will never be able to capture essential aspects of the original experience. You'll cackle and try to put others down, but in the end, there's only one truth: A hundred years from now, people will pay tens of thousands for that real hardware to play the games of their ancestors in exactly the same way they did. This will include CRTs. They will do so because they will recognize those aspects, just like you do. It's the auratic condition. The inescapable reality of that which is original, no matter what it is. But yeah. Emulators are neat. Loved them when I was poor.

>baw emulation bad
Been gaming since the late 70s and emulation hasn't let me down yet.

>>8142704
You will never make it. Rich people don't like spending their money on useless crap that doesn't impress other rich people. You will never resell a rare old game for enough money to retire. Those people are money launderers. If you sell now you might be able to break even on the fee you paid to the game grading service.

>>8142704
Bold of you to assume your failing plastic will still exist a hundred years from now when most of it is struggling to exist 20-30 years later.

I don't know much about consoles in general, me and my brother had a Wii growing up and that was it, otherwise we just played games on our computers.
In a interactive text game I'm playing right now there's a description of the following:

>>A large black box with green highlights, a smaller purple one, a strange white and yellow tower with what look like gloves resting on hooks on either side, a compact white cone

Now some of these are probably fictional but do any of them seem like descriptions of lesser known consoles?

>>8142737
>a hundred years from now
A hundred years in the past is the 1920s. Many movie enthusiasts today watch old silent movies on the original projectors and original screens with the musical soundtrack playing on a record player.
Meanwhile in reality they do the equivalent of emulating old movies and watch them on dvd/bluray or streaming. And because there weren't enough piratechads back in the day many old films have been lost.

>>8142704
meds

>>8140039
It'd cost enough to make it not worth it. They can't just just start producing the real hardware again on a dime, because of specialty components used. They'd have to
-Find the old schematics/designs they had for these chips (if they can find it)
-Go to one less than 10 manufacturers in the world and pay for the tooling and manufacturing of these extremely specialty processors that will sell absolute maximum 2-3 million units, and have no application outside of this extremely niche product (going to be real expensive to convince them to bother, given they could produce anything else instead for quicker, less work and a larger customer base).
-Create a new board design that not only is smaller than the original, uses these specialty chips, and replaces the disk drive with some way to load roms/disk images
All for less than ~$80 bucks a pop, including shipping, 3rd party licenses, and ~30%cut for the retailer. The margins just don't exist to start producing 20-30 year old custom chips.
The margins just don't exist.

>>8140039
>How much it cost company to make a Mini console that uses real hardware instead of shitty emulation box
>Like they recreate the hardware using modern manufacturing technologies and cost cut the process as much as they can to make some kind of 1chip system.
costs money to design an FPGA and to code the software to support it. much cheaper and easier to use an emulator.
>>8140063
>Fpga is ewwie imo.
FPGA is everywhere, so is ASIC.
>>8142704
>A hundred years from now, people will pay tens of thousands for that real hardware to play the games of their ancestors in exactly the same way they did
unlikely that the original hardware will last this long. it's already difficult getting chips for hardware from 20-30 years ago, getting next to impossible to find supplies of chips older than 30 years.

What about a genesis mini that is a tiny one chip design? How hard and expensive would that be?
And what about sega cd support

ASICs are too expensive, there's a reason everyone goes for generic SoCs and why FPGAs are taking off.

>>8140063
Embarrassing post

>>8143897
Vibe

>>8140060
>just pay $300+ for an emulator
yikes

>>8143413
That’s just a genesis 3 with a built in flash cart. Speaking of which, I know some flash carts can emulate sega cd hardware but I don’t know if that’s limited to models 1 and 2.

>>8144053
The genesis 3 is massive dude.

>>8144060
>6x6x2
>massive
Also this was a console from the 90s that needed a physical cartridge slot and 2 9 pin controller ports. Remove those and use some newer smaller components and I bet a genesis 3 would fit in the same footprint as a raspi or less.

>>8143903

>>8144562
Wonder how small you can cut a genesis 3 down and solder a flash cart to it

>>8144674
Mini if he real

>>8143956
>>8140063
If you want the original system but smaller, you are basically just asking for an FPGA. The SNES mini was as small as Nintendo could make the SNES back in the 90s and they did it by combining all the SNES's main components onto a single chip, which is pretty much exactly what an FPGA is except the gates are re-programmable rather than being permanently set by the manufacturing process.

What you think you are asking for is all of the original chips crammed onto a tiny new board, but that's not possible, so what you are really asking for is a system on a chip which functionally would be no different from an FPGA.

>>8147376
>What you think you are asking for is
Nope. That's not what I asked for. Wrong.

>>8147376
SoC made by the same people who made the original chips is drastically different from an FPGA that westerners are guessing at

>>8147376
FPGA = emulator in hardware. It's not any more accurate than running a software emulator.

>You will never snes jr.

>>8149228
Why not? I have one.

>>8142745
>me and my brother had a Wii growing up
You must be 18 or older to post on this site.

>>8149292
Look up how old the Wii is and get in the grave already, boomer.

>>8149497
leave him alone you dick

>>8149497
it isn't me who needs to get ready for the grave

>>8140063
>When this is what someone calls English

>>8151585
Skinner if he real

>>8147376
That's impossible

>>8147376
AV Famicom and SNES Jr are some HECKIN cute consoles. Though I paid around $90 for my jr and it seems that might of been a bit much, but I'm just glad to have one.

>>8154308
Get a genesis 3 and psone
Pc engine too

>>8140039
Manufacturing chips is expensive as fuck. Even old ones. Might be cheaper to use something already in production like fpga's.

>>8140039
Mini consoles are the gayest children's toys ever. Either make them full sized reproductions or give them an entirely new design.

>>8156032
Nah mini is based

>>8156032
Don't be gay

And yet people have made complete functional ZX Spectrum repros like the Omni.

>>8154636
actually it's just the initial cost of setting up tooling. once you get the line going it's not.

>>8140039
Tec Toy tried to recreate a Genesis replica in Brazil. It costed a lot for a Genesis sytem and they had to emulate part of it because a lot of the chips don't exist anymore. It's possible, but not cheap.

>>8157429
>because a lot of the chips don't exist anymore
those chips being what? i think the VDP was the only custom silicon in there.

>>8157492
I don't remember the details, the president of Tec Toy explained it in interview, I believe. I'll find the details later. But it's not cheap.

I would it would cost half the price of a PS5 if you can find the chips on the market, if you are making from scratch more like 70%~80% of the price of a PS5.

>>8157492
>>8157540
I forgot to write, the main issue is not the technology, but it certainly is the Opportunity cost. This is too niche to invest, basically. You'd have a better RoI investing in something else. Like, let's say, entry smartphones for eldery people or other cheaper electronics, like home theaters.

>>8157553
if you hate retro this much why come here

>>8140039
I would have loved a ps1 mini that used real ps1 hardware
But it was like net yaroze and encouraged kids to program and came with the information and software to make your own games

>>8159976
how hard could this have been? man sony's mini cash grab is so bullshit. It would have been trivial for sony to make a SoC net yaroze

>>8159982
making an asic is not cheap

>>8160020
it is for sony

>>8159943
what do you mean?
All I'm saying is that it's not cheap just because it's old tech.