/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8135635
pain in the ass to program

>>8135652
Yeah the 68000 is dev friendly.

SNES: 2.68 mhz
Mega Drive: 7.6 mhz
PC Engine: 7.6 mhz
Amiga: 7.16 mhz
Why would anyone smart enough to know how to program choose something only 1/3rd the speed of everything else?

>>8135658
it's 3Mhz if you use FastROM

>>8135692
FastROM isn't stock.

>>8135635
Because Nintendo will sue the pants off you.

>>8135692
only part of the time

>>8135802
Hasn't stopped companies like Capcom from rereleasing their old SNES titles without a Nintendo license.

>>8135802
Nintendo sues people who use their IP. You can't sue someone for releasing an unlicensed SNES game.

>>8135802
not how it works zoomie

>>8135652
no it's not. it's really straight forward

Would Nintendo actually be opposed to companies releasing software for the SNES?

>>8135658
Nintendo have been cheap & greedy ass holes ever since they tasted success with the NES. I wish Sega was still around these days to keep them in check because Sony has gone full retard.

>>8135843
They make no money from it, so yes. They can't do anything about it though.

>>8135843
they can't do anything. nothing about a valid SNES program contains copyrighted material by default.

>>8135847
At least Sony produces respectable hardware. Compare the framerates on PS1 vs N64. Or the next generational gap seen between the PSP and the DS. Nintendo's hardware has always been laughably shit.

>>8135848
>>8135850
makes sense. i thought maybe they would have some kind of problem with it, but didn't sega get blown out by ea for something similar ? like they didn't give them some kind go ahead and they just figured out how the carts worked and made em any ways?
the ones with the yellow tabs ? those are unofficial right??
So yeah makes sense nintendo couldn't do anything

>>8135875
Companies released unlicensed games for the NES, Genesis, and SNES during those consoles lifetimes. Nintendo would just pressure retailers to only carry licensed games. Sega actually went after EA and lost, yes.

>>8135897
Thats kind of a cool thing about that era you just don't see any more. "unofficial games" as a kid who'd really know better you know ? its a game its for the console, it works. who cares.

>>8135837
sure it is lol

>>8135917
there were lockout circuits for these consoles. you still have to get around those somehow. solutions weren't always electrically kind

>>8135923
what do you think is hard about it?

>>8135635
The SNES is at the point where it's much easier to do a total conversion of Super Mario World than write a whole new game. I wouldn't be surprised if someone ports doom to the snes again by hacking SMW.

>>8135848
You could go the other route and release an NES or whatever game on their eShop and still produce a cartridge version, that one Clerks game did such a thing. Does that make it the 'final official' NES game?

>>8135925
Idk much about lock out chips but yeah that seems like it would be a problem with a really cheaply made game. Just wreck all the connectors pins or something lol

>>8135925
Um, it's called an Everdrive? Doit.

s-cpu and spc

>>8135930
s-cpu and spc

There may not be a working SNES to test your game out soon.

>>8135861
Nintendo has always been a kind of "do more with less" company.

>>8135802
The patents on the SNES hardware expired years ago.

>>8135952
i'll admit if there was an interrupt line between the CPU and S-CPU that would have made things easier.

that being said, the dev manual gives you code to interface with the boot loader, and the rest is just writing an I/O program over the ports and a sequencer that pokes at the sound registers at regular intervals. also the sound sample format BRR is an encoded version of PCM which is easy to understand. it's really not that bad

The hardware is a royal PITA, it's a lot more clunky and hard to figure out than the Mega Drive.

>>8135959
at the time they were a pay up to do more company. I guess addon chips were the original DLC

>>8135954
I cannot wait.

I like to call the Genesis the last 80s system and the SNES the first 90s system. The Genesis was still a console whose soul was grounded in arcade games while the SNES looked forward to the upcoming age of cinematic games.

>Priapism
...OP?

>>8135830
>>8135834
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_of_America,_Inc._vs._Blockbuster_LLC.#Nintendo's_Previous_Legal_History

>>8136003
>In 1989, Nintendo had a legal battle with the company Tengen over the Tetris game copyrights, which they won and forced Tengen to recall all unlicensed copies of the game. Nintendo sues Tengen again in November over a number of unlicensed Nintendo games. Nintendo wins again.

>>8135983
Addon chips are nothing like DLC you mouth-breathing, downs-syndrome, quadroon mongrel.

>>8136015
>devs pay nintendo more
>customers pay nintendo more
yep, it's worse.

>>8136014
that was because Tengen made pirate copies of the NES lockout chip. the patent is long expired but Everdrives use a clone of Tengen's chip because the NES lockout chip has never been successfully reverse engineered.

>>8136025
Keep in mind that Tengen had acquired the NES blueprints through an illegal move called "requesting blueprints for copyright infringement purposes".
In a lot less dumb terms, they basically asked the courts for a copy of blueprints to confirm that it was not infringing on anything Tengen had, and then they took off with those prints and illegally made their own lockout clone.

>>8136036
They’re not called blueprints you retard. Did you copy and paste that from the gaming historian?

>>8136048
Look, it's 10:40 PM, I'm procrastinating on homework, I didn't sleep well last night, and a couple other things. Cut me some slack. I can't remember what the circuit diagrams were called and blueprints sounded good.

>>8135652
>>8135657
You’re both retarded.

>>8136067
> literally copy and pasted gaming historian to sound smart
Mate that’s the real cringe here. Idk if it’s 10:40pm and you’re procrastinating, this is the 4chan message board I expect some non cringe content here

>>8136110
I did not copy the gaming historian. Who the fuck even are these people, and why should I break from my ASMR destressing to check them out and to laugh at them?

>>8135658
>clocks per second to compare completely different ISAs
That's not how it works. Yes, the SNES is the slowest of them for reasons covered by others in this thread. However, it certainly doesn't run at 1/3rd of speed of everything else.

>>8136159
it's well known that 65xx have more powerful addressing modes and complete many operations (especially memory transactions) with fewer clock cycles than the 68k

>>8136067
>homework
Get out, zoom zoom.

>>8136159
The SNES's ISA is dogshit compared to the others so it's even slower than the frequencies make it sound, really.

>>8135658
They're all limited hardware. I thought that was the point. Make something using the same limitations as the games from your youth. Choosing a less-nostalgic console to make your work easier doesn't seem like it's in the spirit of homebrewing, so I doubt it's that. I think the people who are into that kind of thing are much more attracted to things like the Amiga. And people who want to make a Nintendo game would rather do an NES because it's both easier and more iconic.

>>8135658
truth

>>8135897
>>8135917
May be well-known trivia, but that's why Wisdom Tree made Christian-themed games. Their games could be sold at Christian book stores and the like. Nintendo didn't sell anything there before, so they couldn't put any pressure on the Christian distributors.

>>8137734
For as lawsuit-happy as Nintendo are, suing Christian bookstores was still something they didn't want to deal with. The PR disaster of that would be too great.

>>8135658
Imagine if Nintendo put a 12Mhz CPU in the SNES like they should have. No slowdown in every other game, more than two enemies on screen and better arcade ports. The older I get the more I realize Sega were the good guys.

>>8138047
You're retarded.
The 65816 is twice as fast in many tests than the 68000 at the same given clock speed. The slow down would be apparent on the genesis too regardless of a higher clock speed.

https://www.westerndesigncenter.com/wdc/AN-001_%20Instruction_Level_Performance_Comparisons.php

>>8138047
>what are production costs
All too often I hear by fantasizing anon "put faster CPU in it" or "use this custom DPS"
You think anyone would've cared for SNES if the price was $200+ higher?

You people are detached from reality.

>>8137734
just looked this game up. its a mod basically of wolfenstein 3d. where you play as noah collecting the animals. sounds kinda comfy actually lol

The SNES lag maymay comes mostly from SlowROM games. FastROM games are a lot perkier but only if the publisher was willing to spring for it.

>>8138047
And that was cost-effective in 1990 how?

>>8135635
They usually cancel projects when they realize they can't make the game they're working on go faster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ROMm8tHYU

>>8138392
it looks like a flash game jesus fucking christ

>>8138357
My friend had it on his hacked wii, its stupid but thats what makes it funny.

>>8138440
>why does one of the worst SNES games of all time look like a bad Flash game
I wonder.

Get over it man, the Super Nintendo is popular, you will not be able to change that.

>>8135802
itch.io is full of Game Boy home brew, and no retro system has more indie devs making games for it than the NES.

>>8138825
>and no retro system has more indie devs making games for it than the NES
lal 85% of which is NROM stuff trying to pose as a post-SNES MMC3 game

not the Master System though, ain't nobody care about that

>>8138836
It has some homebrew stuff in Europe but NTSC region guys don't really care about it.

master system would get more love if it didn't have shit garbage sound

>>8138836
Wrongarino.

https://www.smspower.org

I feel of all the major 2D retro systems that the SNES is the least explored by homebrew fags.

>>8135658
You're an absolute retard if you think clock speeds are everything with 70s-80s chips. If clock speed is everything, how come Z80s require double the clock speed to roughly equal the computational power of 6502s

>>8138859
6502s only had a performance advantage in the late 70s because the early Z80s were only 2Mhz. By 1980 they had the 3Mhz Z80A and eventually they were produced in speeds as high as 8Mhz while the 6502 never got beyond 2Mhz.

actually when the Apple II debuted in 77 there was some bitching about the choice of CPU and why didn't they use a 6800 instead?

>>8138870
The shortest possible instruction takes 4-cycles on Z80 vs 2-cycles on the 6502; so in practice 6502s could achieve the same performance as Z80s even at significantly slower clock speeds.

This isn't to get into a Z80 vs 6502 war - they're both great chips; but just to point out that with this generation of hardware, clock speeds do not tell the full story.

would have been sick if the Master System had a 4Mhz CPU but they had to keep the 3Mhz Z80 for compatibility with the SG-1000

>>8138882
6502 = 25$ in 1977
MC6800 = 175$ in 1975

back then they had choice of 8080 or 6800 and their respective manufacturers were interested in enterprise sales with high markup, they weren't going to do Steve Wozniak any favors as he was working in his garage. the 6502 was intentionally created as cheap CPU for hobbyist computers. it also had advantage in that it used single rail power while 8080 and 6800 had dual 5V and 12V rails.

>>8138897
Guess you could put a 4Mhz Z80 in there but it would break some games that rely on tight timing. I know people have put 10Mhz 68000s in Mega Drives for kicks.

>>8138886
>great chips
They are absolute garbage.

>>8135635
Rapesex.sfc is a perfectly fine SNES homebrew.

>>8135930
looks like shit

The SNES's hardware is bullshit, it's hard to program, hard to set up, slow, only 16-bit CPU registers and memory is organized as retarded 64k segments like a DOS PC. there's also different memory mapping configurations for the cartridge ROMs.