/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8095447
Unironically one of the best X games, alongside X1 and X4.
Ending would be fine if X9 existed.

>>8095447
It was alright, but yeah we need a MMx 9

>>8095447
one of the best mega man games
i always thought the end of the X series should be the Elf Wars, though wrapping it up in one game wouldn't do it justice. We'd need an Elf War trilogy I reckon.

Model A in ZXA is obviously inspired by Axl, unlike the other Biometals doesn't have his soul. I believe this means something terrible happened to Axl. I think Lumine royally fucks with Axl.

Most probably, Axl's personality and memories deteriorate due to the Lumine shard.

>>8095447
If we ever get an X9, I want it to be like X8 but with less gimmicky level design.
It's still really fun. It's shockingly good after the trashfire that was X7.

>>8096078
The ending of X8 tells us that New Gen Reploids are resuming production. Once Axl's data is totally wiped, he might say "fuck Maverick Hunter", my homies are the New Gen Reploids. The fact that Axl joined Red Alert in the first place tells us that Axl by nature isn't a legalist basedboy.

Maverick Hunter is the most faggot organisation in history. They will call ANYBODY a Maverick, the word has ceased to mean what it was originally meant to mean. It is a lot like cancel culture and Maverick Hunter are the biggest twitter faggots.

When Repliforce came to the aid of the citizens of Sky Lagoon, Maverick Hunter instantly blamed them simply because they were present, and funnily enough the incident was caused by a member of fucking Maverick Hunter.

When Maverick Hunter wasn't getting anything done in no small part due to X going emo, somebody had to do their job for them. Yet, Red Alert got called Mavericks for doing the job instead of Maverick Hunter.

Over the course of X9, Maverick Hunter will probably disband.

Alia is a scientist and saw once before in Gate how a friend got totally rejected by society for being 2smart4u, she will probably sympathise with Axl and the New Gen Reploids. Pallette will not defect because she's not interested in politicking, as long as somebody is giving her department a budget she doesn't care who is in charge. Layer will go where Zero goes.

Now I don't think the New Gen Reploids would be evil and trying to take over the world, they'd be fighting for civil rights. A labour/industrial relations dispute basically. When the New Gen Reploids start unionising, Maverick Hunter will obviously consider them Mavericks, and this time HQ has an argument...

>>8096139
>They will call ANYBODY a Maverick
To be fair they can't risk it. Sigma managed to put humanity on the brink of extinction in only 100 years of war. They are intolerant but that's because they had to become a police state due to the imperfect nature of reploids. Suspecting Repliforce because they were on the scene makes some sense.
The one who's ultimately responsible for all of this is Dr. Cain.
>X going emo
He's carried everyone on his back even if he gets sad about it sometimes.

>>8095447
people seem to like it but I can't stand the level design, it's like every other level is just a minigame before fighting the boss

>>8096226
It's the best game in the Mega Man X "Retard Trilogy" (X6 - X8) but worse than the first 5.

>>8096226
the core gameplay is great but it's pretty miserable to actually play for this reason.
every single maverick level is taken over by a dumb gimmick. there's two bike levels, even. why
the fortress stages are great though

>>8096139
Nice fanfiction, but it's much more likely that Command Mission is canon and CM happens after possible X9.
>>8096259
Better than X3 and X5 at least.

>>8096462
>Better than X3 and X5 at least.
I guess it's a matter of opinion. They've all got problems.
X3: Metroidvania autism to collect all the items
X5: I didn't think it's that bad overall but you can tell it's where they started crapping up the series
X8: Gimmick stages, pic related

the level design sucks and so do the weapons but that has sadly been the case for every x game since X3

>>8096415
I can only remember one actual fortress stage. The other was an elevator level.

>>8096486
There's the elevator level, a teleporter level and the moon fortress level, that's it.

>>8096483
I agree with the weapons sucking, literally no reason to use them when X's charge shot is powerful as fuck in this game.
As for Zero, I think X8 has the best abilities for him, and being able to use different weapons is pretty cool.

>>8096506
I just used the glaive all the time lol.

>>8095447
Dynamo should have retuned in MMX8 instead of Vile/Vava. His death in MMX3 was quite fitting for his 2nd iteration. Dying in a flurry of insanity and craziness.

They removed X's ability to duck in X8 right? That made him a lot clunkier than Axl.

>>8096513
As soon as you get the armor part that allows you to only take red damage if you're using X, there was no reason not to use him.

>>8096513
i always hated ducking
the dash gets you just as low to the ground while encouraging you to move around more

>>8096521
Ducking is still a very logical option to have. X is tall as fuck in X8.

>>8096479
That level was actually fun though, the snow bike one was the godawful one.

>>8096508
That extra reach is awesome. Makes doing those training areas in Optic Sunflower's stage a breeze. Even without it, they're much easier as Zero anyway. Good fucking luck acing them with X or Axl.

I liked it. At least, compared to previous entries in the series. Not the greatest game, but gets the job done. It can filter impatient people, though, thanks to some surprise traps.

Story wise, it's once again a mess. If you're going to build up something like X1~X4 did, you'd better finish it properly. Otherwise, you could just start each game with "Welp, looks like Sigma's at it again, boys. Time to move off!"

>>8096557
but this is the one game where sigma wasn't at it again

>>8096569
It was, lumine was just deluded

>>8096557
>you could just start each game with "Welp, looks like Sigma's at it again, boys. Time to move off!"
Sigma was already losing it by the end of MMX5. In X6 he was a zombie, in X7 I don't know really and in X8 his remains are on the Moon.

the only good thing about it is the Central White track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SxZGP_SMLk

>>8096557
>Story wise, it's once again a mess. If you're going to build up something like X1~X4 did, you'd better finish it properly. Otherwise, you could just start each game with "Welp, looks like Sigma's at it again, boys. Time to move off!"
I like to daydream about the X series story being rebooted fresh and each "game" having a different villain with the theme of the story being the gradual corruption of Maverick Hunter into the enforcers of a brutal police state that oppresses reploids and humans alike.

>>8096139
>>8096190
>To be fair they can't risk it. Sigma managed to put humanity on the brink of extinction in only 100 years of war. They are intolerant but that's because they had to become a police state due to the imperfect nature of reploids. Suspecting Repliforce because they were on the scene makes some sense.
>The one who's ultimately responsible for all of this is Dr. Cain.
>>8096770
I really wish the series would be re-made as a long, mutli-season anime with a gradually developing story about the emergence of a police state. Each season, the definition of Maverick expanding just a bit.

>>8096697
The whole OST is good, anon.

>>8096770
i think maverick hunter on the PSP was supposed to be this.
unfortunately the first game was mismanaged to shit and capcom knew no one would buy a MHX2 or X3

>>8096791
Yeah, and it's too bad because they put some effort into that game.

>>8096773
>>8096770
>the story being the gradual corruption of Maverick Hunter into the enforcers of a brutal police state that oppresses reploids and humans alike.
That's precisely the reason why MMX is the most engaging series of the MM franchise. It's a clash of dubious moralities and motivations, existential dread that grows with each subsequent game and one of the best applications of the ethics of machine sapience put into a videogame to date.

>>8096804
Well, I wouldn't say that's what the games ARE but what they should have been. They are by far the most interesting Mega Man games because of the potential of the setting and conflict presented.

>>8096804
X5 and X6 deserved better lead writers.

>>8096804
it's supposed to be about the question of the machine ethics but they retconned it so much it's now about some asshole who programmed a virus so well that it led to multiple near human extinction events and the rise of several global fascist dictatorships centuries after his death
the zero series does what you described

>>8096826
The virus subplot never should have been a thing. Or only used in a contained context, such as a story where one side or the other attempts to directly manipulate the minds of reploids with "new data" they install in them that changes their behavior.

>>8096826
>about some asshole who programmed a virus
Wily's virus is complicated but Sigma only used it to make his own. He still has his own motivations.

>>8096804
>>8096809
Yeah, the X games have faint traces of interesting topics and story choices, but they never actually delve into them. They were really limited by sticking to a status quo and bringing Sigma back as the mastermind all the time.

>>8096836
Plus, starting out as simple platlformers marketed at kids ranged 8 to 12 or so. That's why I wish it was a big budget anime or something. Imagine the potential if say, Blast Hornet and Volt Kraken were developed characters from the first season, long before they meet their ends in later events? Other characters too. Could switch things up too, like how in the manga Neon Tiger doesn't die and joins Maverick Hunter after the Doppler Incident.

>>8096840
X3's manga goes down differently than the other ones since Doppler is a different case than Sigma.

>>8096826
The virus was always in the backstory for the X games, according to a design document made during X1.

Like what >>8096830 said, it would've worked better as the plot of a single, self-contained game. Maybe there'd be a really poignant moment when X learns that the "Mavericks" he destroyed in that game were only like that because of a virus, and he wonders if they could've been saved.

Tying so many antagonists to a virus that takes away their sanity undermines a lot of the potential behind the setting's involvement of robots with free will.

>>8096852
As I remember, X1 and X2 were rebellions, X3 was a mix of grudges, viruses, and one or two nutcases, X4 was a conflict of independence, X5 was just the virus, X6 was zombies and X8 was neither Sigma nor the virus, but a flaw in the system itself. It's pretty varied.

>>8096865
https://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Maverick_Virus
https://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Sigma_Virus
>X
sigma corrupted by virus, corrupts at least some of his forces
>X2
sigma, who is a virus at this point
>X3
virus
>X4
political machinations and in-fighting
>X5
multiple viruses
>X6
virus
>X7
a program that lets sigma control their mind (so, a virus)
>X8
sigma's data (a virus)

>>8096913
Here is what it should be,
>X1
Sigma's rebellion
>X2
Escalation of rebellion even after Sigma's death (induced volcano eruption, missile launch, sabotage of hydroponics farms, ect)
>X3
Attempts at "mind control" over reploids to make rebellion impossible ends in disaster
>X4
Machinations by remaining mavericks, who have gone underground, instigate a civil war against Repliforce to weaken or eliminate Repliforce and Maverick Hunter
>X5
Massive terror attack that signals the start of the mavericks to rebel once again in all the chaos and fallout
>X6
Gate and his unique reploids are singled out for the theoretical danger they pose and eliminated so order can be restablished over the planet
>X7
Maverick Hunter destroys a rival organization that threatens their power
>X8
Maverick Hunter rebels to preserve itself against being replaced by new, superior model reploids.

>>8096939
>Maverick Hunter rebels to preserve itself against being replaced by new, superior model reploids.
this could dovetail into the zero games well

>>8096942
X and the other Maverick Hunters are convinced they must violently resist because the new reploids have a nefarious plot against humanity. Plot-twist; they don't and the leader of Maverick Hunter just made that up to convince his comrades to fight for their own freedom.

>>8096913
X1's cast was mostly loyal to him as the Commander of the Maverick Hunters. Even Vile was an independent actor that he convinced to do some jobs for him in exchange to breaking him out of prison and have a chance at fighting X.
His virus form in X2 was actually his digitalized self that he'd use to inhabit the copied body of Zero, which he hired the X-hunters to get the parts of the original Zero for. Characters like Overdrive Ostrich wanted revenge on X for killing their friends, others like Crystal Snail had psychological issues with their own sense of purpose, and some like Bubble Crab were known criminals.
This virus infects Doppler (a reploid) in X3, along with Blizzard Buffalo, Volt Catfish, Tunnel Rhino. Gravity Beetle wanted revenge on X for killing Kuwanger (his brother), Blast Hornet had a grudge against Zero, Neon Tiger hated humans in general because of poachers killing the wildlife he was tasked to protect (which was difficult to do without killing the poachers so he just went over the edge), Crush Crawfish was insane from the start, and his programming was so fucked up that even Sigma couldn't convince or infect him, and he was scheduled for dismantling (he escaped of course, after slicing his cage and the entire prison ship in half), Toxic Seahorse was zombified from the start, perhaps infected, perhaps not.
X4 was about Sigma orchestrating a fight between Repliforce and the Maverick Hunters.
X5 was just the virus as I said.
X6 wasn't Sigma's virus per se, but actually Gate blackmailing/reprogramming reploids with his own Nightmare Virus after bringing them back to life.
X8 was just Lumine manipulating Sigma instead of the other way around.
There's a whole timeline of the sigma virus taking shape based on the Wily virus.

>>8096969
>like Bubble Crab were known criminals.
Magna Centipede had been captured and apparently brainwashed into joining the Mavericks during the events of X1.

>>8096969
i'd like to believe that the majority of the mavericks in at least X1-3 are acting of their own free will, but it's unclear if they're actually able to do that without the influence of the virus. let's assume they are since it improves the writing 10000x
sigma still only started his rebellion because of the virus. X4 shows him being a standout maverick hunter and you see wily's virus infect him.
>X6 wasn't Sigma's virus per se, but actually Gate blackmailing/reprogramming reploids with his own Nightmare Virus after bringing them back to life.
yes, but the nightmare virus is based off of the virus wily stuck in zero.
>Gate: I'll admit that Reploids are flawed and some Reploids become Maverick. That's why I wasn't properly evaluated. But... I feel confident in my recent creations. Oh... I'll tell you one little thing. I didn't get here on my ability alone... Hmmm...but I got something. A golden opportunity. Guess what I picked up? I thought it was just rubbish... at first. It was a "piece of Zero." I obtained Zero's DNA! I felt as if I stepped in the sanctuary. And the DNA was just fabulous. It was a piece of cake to create High Max and the Nightmare.

>X8 was just Lumine manipulating Sigma instead of the other way around.
yes but he was able to do that because he had the sigma virus in him
>Lumine: The copy chips we new generation Reploids possess... They were derived
from data from hundreds of old model Repolids. That means, of course, that
Sigma was also included in the mix. Do you understand what I'm getting at here? [. . .]
>Lumine: In other words... We possess the power to go Maverick at will!

>>8097045
>sigma still only started his rebellion because of the virus. X4 shows him being a standout maverick hunter and you see wily's virus infect him.
That's what odds me out about Sigma. In X4 it's insinuated that he got the virus after fighting Zero when he first woke up. In MHX's OVA it's shown that, before Sigma's rebellion, Reploids could already go maverick on their own (hence why the maverick hunters existed before Sigma became the bad guy) and it's explained that they go maverick because of their flawed programming. Dr. Cain invented the reploids by (imperfectly) copying X's data when he first found him, despite being an archeologist rather than a programmer. Sigma discovers that he, too, was made a flawed being, by another flawed being (a human). All of the crimes and suffering that happens, which he is tasked to keep under control in order to protect humans, was inadvertently created by human hands and flawed thinking, hence why he starts to hate them and get rid of them instead of obeying and cleaning up the mess they made. The latter makes more sense to me because the virus thing wasn't prominent until the latter half of X2.
>yes but he was able to do that because he had the sigma virus in him
Actually Lumine wasn't infected. Being a New Gen Reploid, he had an even wider range of abilities (like self-replication) and free thinking than Cain's reploids. He used Sigma's program to create a race of slave robots that take Sigma's appearance so he could build his space elevator, but they are otherwise no more than worker Mechaniloids that the player destroys in droves throughout X8. He outright states Sigma himself did not turn insane despite being infected by a virus, but rather rebelled of his free will. He ultimately didn't give two shits about Sigma because, ironically, he saw him as a flawed robot that was better off turned into scrap. I can explain how the virus plays into the lore before X8 but the post is getting too long.

>>8097108
The virus thing was just a bad idea. The whole point I always understood about X and his creation as well as Dr. Cain's creation of reploids was that all this was simply the result of free will. Dr. Light sealed away X for testing to ensure he'd have empathy and be moral and good to others. Dr. Cain took no such precautions and so his reploids are just as free as X or any human but weren't screened for mental stability, empathy, or other traits that would make coexistence easy.

>>8097121
>The virus thing was just a bad idea
Yeah it was kinda fucky. Reploids being flawed and prone to maverick behavior due to their relative infantile sapience in contrast to X is much more interesting, but at the same time a virus problem that doesn't go away in just one game does have potential for muddying the Maverick Hunters' definitions of who's a criminal, who's gone mad, who's doing bad things for a good cause and who genuinely doesn't believe they are evil.

>>8095447
Too many on rail stages. Other than that it's OK.

>>8095447
I'm amazed it's so good after the last 2 (arguably 3) MMX games that came right before it

Wasn't as bad as X7 or X6, but still fell pretty far short of what I wanted from a Megaman X game with its shitty vehicle levels and janky terrain collision.

I don't give a rats ass about the story.

>>8096139
Explain X Command Mission then

Talking about MMX lore i'm still mad that we never get Megamission games though it got so many toys and card game it's still not canon to the mainline series

Just the concept about X fighting evil clone of himself would have been kino

>>8096939
I like the idea of the sigma virus being a hoax

>>8096462
What is likely about CM being canon?>>8097414
Not canon

>>8096139
X will leave Maverick Hunter to start his own organisation: Arcadia. He had enough of the bullshit and is gonna FORCE Maverick Hunter and the New Gen Reploids to sit down and negotiate.

We are introduced to Weil who detests the idea of machine sentience, though for the optics (for now) he says he only wants to mind-control the New Gen Reploids. He begins funding the Mother Elf which will destroy all traces of the Sigma Virus, and since New Gen Reploids inherently have Sigma's data they will be decommissioned.

Arcadia rejects this, the New Gen Reploids have the right to life and Axl is X and Zero's homie. Maverick Hunter on the other hand will cooperate with Weil.

Fans commonly speculate that Lumine's shard is going to turn Axl into a Lumine copy, what might be more interesting is that since Axl is a prototype, Lumine has given him a firmware update. This means that Axl will be treated the same way as the other New Gen Reploids and he might choose on his own to fight for his own survival

>>8096078
There's a recent interview with Makoto Yabe (writer from Z2 to ZXA) translated over at Rockman Corner, where he left Model A rather ambiguious because he doesn't know what Axl's ultimate fate is and didn't want to step on the toes of the teams handing the X series, but that it's his head canon that the bottlecap in Model A's forehead (and therefore the bottle cap on the helmet worn by Gray and Ashe) is a lid sealing Lumine after how he embeded himself in Axl's helmet/forehead.

>>8096512
Wanna know some shit? The Rockman X8 website (and the JP article in Wikipedia) says Vile in X8 is "Vile Penta" or "MK-V" because in X5 and X6 he was Dynamo.

>>8096512
Vile Mk II is pretty cool but he really deserved a better end instead of being a secret boss, being X's true rival and all that.

>>8096773
>I really wish the series would be re-made as a long, mutli-season anime with a gradually developing story about the emergence of a police state. Each season, the definition of Maverick expanding just a bit.
Maverick Hunter X series was supposed to be that. Streamline and fix the X series both narratively and mechanically, fix the bad games and each game would have an OVA included. But MHX failed to sell. I blame it on it being on PSP, the audience to own a PSP back in 2005 was Jamal using it as an MP4 and to play sports game and not a Mega Man fan. I feel MHX would've fared better on the fucking Wii, since at least the MMX fandom overlaps with the Nintendo fandom due to X1 being a SNES game.

>>8098017
NOOOOO

>>8096825
X5 is fine story-wise for the most part. What that game needed was:

>Stick to their fucking guns and have the fucking colony crash
>Better game design

The former has led to X6 and Z4 take this half step of the remainder 14% of the colony being big enough to still count as a Colony Crash in spite of the shuttle being successful while the latter lead to X5 being fucking boring to play.

>>8096865
Surprisingly no, the Chou Hyakka Rockman X3 book states (I know, it's printed material but it's printed material by the devs so please bear with me) that Magna Centipede was one of X's subordinates who got kidnapped and infected with the virus by Serges (who we all know is Wily, even the fucking book says Serges has "the mind/soul of the evil scientist of a century prior"), and his mission was to broadcast the virus globally via a satellite, a plan that would be revisited, albeit executed differently in X5.

>>8095447
I don't know if anyone has ever considered this, but I believe we only see the real Sigma in X1. A cold, calculating reploid, who had malfunctioned due to the virus (all his inhibitors to harm humans shut down and decided to declare war on humanity for machine supremacy), but "Sigma" afterwards (from the X1 stinger, to in X2 the virus showing up as wireframe minibosses and the Sigma Wireframe last boss) has been Wily's virus embedded by Sigma's memories and core personality. It's the virus "believing" it's Sigma, but unlike the real Sigma, it seeks to propagate itself further (the satellite in Centipede's stage, Doppler's tower hijacking, the Eurasia colony drop) and why Wily helps him so.

>>8098046
>Serges (who we all know is Wily, even the fucking book says Serges has "the mind/soul of the evil scientist of a century prior")
That's kinda debatable since Isoc is also hinted to be Wily, who had more of an impact than Serges who was not even the leader of his own team in X2. The virus broadcast in the X2 manga was described as a weapon made by Sigma that would make systems worldwide go haywire rather than give Sigma control of everything.

>>8098078
Serges had an impact, Serges finished Zero as Wily originally designed him to be (Wily had died prior to finishing building Zero, his blueprints in Power Fighters show him with the shoulderpads and the Z-Saber already planned) as well as Zero being imposible to analyze, both times coming back being Wily who brings him back, under the guises of Serges and Isoc.

In the Japanese canon, no one knows X was built by Dr. Light (not even X himself until later) except Dr. Cain and the government and they don't like people snooping around the area X was found (hence them shooting down Ground Scaravich when he was discovered breaking in). Serges outright says it's regretful that he was defeated by "Light's memento", and has that slip of the tongue where he calls X "Rockma..." before course correcting to "X" during his call to the Hunter HQ.

Isoc, on the other hand, not only is he voiced by Wily's seiyuu, but instead calls Zero and X "robots" and not "reploids", something no one else outside of those with close government ties would know (like Signas telling Lifesaver to drop the discussion and focus on his job when Lifesaver was putting two and two together regarding Zero while Signas danced around it). Isoc being the reason why Zero "had a body when he regained consciousness" (as oppposed to the meme translation of repairing himself) makes sense especially with how he nuts to death when Zero defeats High Max and leaves his final words as "You're the world's greatest robot" while on the other hand has a stroke so hard he dies when X defeats High Max.

The mangas are good, but they always take liberties and shouldn't be taken as canon (i.e. Volvagia being Link's pet and not an ancient dragon revived for the sake of another vidya-manga adaptation to compare to)

>>8098097
>seiyuu

>>8098140
Wily's Japanese voice actor.
Better?

>>8098097
If you get all the Zero parts back from the X-Hunters (which is canon) Zero shows up to destroy the fake copy himself. Serges was simply not put in the spotlight as he should like, say, Doppler or Isoc. He feels like a secondary character, especially since he doesn't even manage to survive longer than one game. He might be a reploid tailored to act like him but it doesn't fit that he's simply there in X2 and simply dies again in X2 having accomplished nothing since Zero is still on X's side. Zero was rebuilt by someone in X6 (likely Isoc) makes sense here, and shows that even Sigma isn't in Wily's plans. Either way, Wily simply being there physically in the X series feels wrong for some reason because both of these characters and their machinations didn't have any substantial dividends in his original plans (get rid of Light, Rockman and take over the world) because Light and Rock are already "not around" anymore and Zero is still not doing what he was supposed to do after 6 games.

>>8098162
Yes
Could also say Wily's VA

>>8098181
I think it's important to clarify it's the Japanese VA, since Wily has had multiple different VAs in english while in Japan he had one until the good man died.

>>8098172
Yes, I know Zero gets put back together by Dr. Cain but by that point if you look at the screen, Zero had already been fixed, just assembly was required. In X1, he was missing half his body and one arm, but in X2, you get him with finished boots, a better chest vent system, shoulderpads and the Z-Saber.

I get the feeling, however, X2's team wasn't given much time to finish the game hence Serges getting shoved to the side, and having to reuse Magna Centipede's stage for the final stage. X2's development, alongside MM7's was the reason Takuya Aizu left capcom with the staff of both games to form Inti Creates while X3 had to be outsourced after Capcom bleeded that staff of just-hired employees. Sigma does say in the Japanese version that Zero is the last of the "Wil... Num..." before flowing the fuck up so Wily and Sigma were at least cohorting that far back and might be the reason why Sigma came back without explanation in X4 (and why the engine room of Final Weapon had a giant cartoony skull since Sigma and Split Mushroom were fucking with communications among the Repliforce members causing shit like Jet Stingray destroying a city and Steve Irving for no reason).

While I get what you mean about Wily being physically there feels wrong, in my opinion it's... kind of in character he'd do that. The entire Mega Man franchise is kicked off by Wily being spiteful and vindicative, backing up your mind as an AI and keep furthering his desire to fuck everything for Light and feel he's superior in one way or another is enough for him. Why he nuts so hard when Zero defeats High Max, a robot with specs above X's and Zero's in theory.

>>8098203
>in X2, you get him with finished boots, a better chest vent system, shoulderpads and the Z-Saber.
He was being rebuilt by Cain in the interlude between X1 and X2 before the X-Hunters stole his parts, but why would Serges make a copy of him though, if he wasn't confident that he'd obey his programming? This is why Zero only works as a deuteragonist, his backstory is way too shlocky.
>Sigma and Split Mushroom were fucking with communications among the Repliforce members causing shit like Jet Stingray destroying a city and Steve Irving for no reason).
Wasn't it Double who was tasked with disrupting communication between Repliforce and the Hunters to keep the war going?
>Wily being spiteful and vindicative, backing up your mind as an AI and keep furthering his desire to fuck everything for Light and feel he's superior in one way or another is enough for him
It's the fact that Capcom missed numerous chances to hint at Wily making an AI of himself in MM Classic games like Light did that makes it weird. In fact even Light's capsules are weird since the AI in them supposedly has knowledge it wasn't supposed to know (like recognizing Zero as being X's friend and some other shit that might as well suggest that it's Light's real soul talking).

>>8098203
Isoc never had an English VA

>>8098225
Touché.

>>8098220
>He was being rebuilt by Cain in the interlude between X1 and X2 before the X-Hunters stole his parts, but why would Serges make a copy of him though, if he wasn't confident that he'd obey his programming? This is why Zero only works as a deuteragonist, his backstory is way too shlocky.
Wait, was this in the JP version too? I could've sworn all Cain had was Zero's "DNA Sample" or "Control Chip" (the integrated circuit Zero has as opposed to a reploid DNA soul) and that Serges only steals the parts from Cain if you fail to get all 3 sets prior to the X-Hunters stages.
Honestly, the fake Zero thing was completely stupid, at best Fake Zero might've been a backup plan or just a stunt Sigma had planned to make X second guess fighting.

>Wasn't it Double who was tasked with disrupting communication between Repliforce and the Hunters to keep the war going?
Double was indeed a mole planted in and causing his fare share of shit, but Split Mushroom was using the abandoned biolab tower as a makeshift anthena to send false information via radio alongside Cyber Peacock hacking the network to send false data and red herrings through internet communication.

>It's the fact that Capcom missed numerous chances to hint at Wily making an AI of himself in MM Classic games like Light did that makes it weird.
I call it "Capcom Writing". None of their games seem particularily well written. Not Mega Man, not Resident Evil not even their RPGs like Breath of Fire. It's always stupid schlock and it might be an executive mandate to have all games with the potential of sequel exploitation.

>>8098241
Zero "died" shortly before X fought Sigma in X1. The X-Hunters only take Zero away much later after they rebuild Sigma. It would've been strange if they had taken him since X1 and took so long to fix him up by the time X2 ends.
>alongside Cyber Peacock hacking the network to send false data and red herrings through internet communication.
That makes sense I suppose. They had the Sigma emblem on their health bars. Really X4's plot is quite solid unlike what people may think.

>>8098273
>Really X4's plot is quite solid unlike what people may think.
The X4 plot is fine, the issue is the execution in-game because a lot of the finer details, much like Heisei and Reiwa Kamen Rider, are hidden behind guidebooks and websites (for example, the Rockman X5 website stated X always destroyed his armors because he's afraid of the power it gives him but after Sigma's activity began increasing he asked Alia to make a replica of his Fourth Armor that would be intentionally nerfed, namely the removal of Infinite Ammo Generator and Nova Strike, and her actually managing to successfully create an armor that could interface with X is why Dr. Light trusts the data on the Falcon and Gaea Armor to Alia to decode during the Viral outbreak). X4 needed bare minimum optional cutscenes or something to explain the story better. I think Inti do this shit better by having their cutscenes on Gunvolt after every beaten stage.


>Zero "died" shortly before X fought Sigma in X1. The X-Hunters only take Zero away much later after they rebuild Sigma. It would've been strange if they had taken him since X1 and took so long to fix him up by the time X2 ends.
The issue here (unless I'm misunderstanding) is that X never walks away with Zero's body, he just watches Sigma's fortress explode with Zero's remain still inside as it crashes to the sea, with only his Integrated Circuit/Control Chip/DNA Sample/Plot Device retrieved after the fact from the sea floor. X2 suffers badly of... not only bad localization but whoever did the script activelly rewritting the fucking game (i.e. all those times X is called "Mega Man" because Capcom USA thought having two Mega Men would be confusing therefore let's pretend they're the same guy) and details like the X Hunters ALREADY having Zero's body parts got lost, with X's original mission on top of stopping the 8 Mavericks being the retrieval of Zero's fixed body parts to install back the Integrated Circuit and activate the blond fuck once more.

>>8098293
>X never walks away with Zero's body, he just watches Sigma's fortress explode with Zero's remain still inside as it crashes to the sea
It would've been very strange if he just left him there lol. He was most likely evacuated by other personnel while he was still dealing with Rangda Bangda and the other fortress shits. Inafune's donut steel is areal monkey wrench in the plot it seems.

>>8098317
As a developer said in complete works "Honestly, I don't know why we brought back Zero, only than because we could."

Note that I don't mind that, I like this dumb shlock.
That said, since General's original plan was to colonize a different planet for Reploids to live in, I always pondered if Final Weapon was the product of the false communication sent by Peacock and Mushroom. A giant, planet-destroying laser does not fit this plan at all and the engine room has in the background a giant goofy cartoony skull that's just missing a "Dr. W" logo. It really feels Final Weapon's existence was the product of Maverick meddling and Wily throwing his "presentation card" in to mock Light.

>>8098273
Iris had no screentime

>>8098337
Iris would've beneffited from debutting in X3 as Dr. Cain's assistant.

>>8098320
>"Honestly, I don't know why we brought back Zero, only than because we could."
lmao
Alright I'll take that.
The Final Weapon... well it's kind of a weird sword of Damocles. It's an orbital colony yet the manga states that it's a big-ass laser that Repliforce built to decimate the whole planet. I don't think it's ever stated what kind of "weapon" it is though, or if even is a weapon. How the fuck the MH didn't notice it being built really makes it look like Sigma built some shit on it without Repliforce knowing about it, hence why it seems like his boss battle rooms seem to be at the ass-end of the facility that nobody ever checks. But okay, if Light can be a fucking force ghost with his goddamn capsules I guess Wily can be a force ghost orchestrating things behind the curtains.
Nice chat anon, will be back later.

>>8098349
I'm gonna sleep shortly anon, honestly I should've slept 2 hours ago but I fucking love talking about the lore of Mega Man

>>8098320
There are 3 good reasons to bring back Zero.
1. He diversifies the gameplay
2. He's the most popular Mega Man character (other than classic Mega Man, but it's more about the brand recognition).
3. He would've been brought back by MMZ team anyway.

What platform should I play X8 on?

>>8099594
PS2

>>8099594
PC if you can run the X Legacy Collections. They cut the loading times down heavily.

>>8095539
It's weird to me that they still haven't made X9, and yet they keep making classic games, when the hype for that was more or less over after 9.

>>8101121
Doesn't it have input lag though?

>>8101151
That's only a problem with the SNES games in the first Llegacy collection IIRC. X4-X8 are technically fine

>>8096479
what makes the gimmick stages so frustrating is how fun X8 is when it just lets you play a normal level for a change

>>8096791
I will forever be mad that Powered Up and Maverick Hunter bombed and we never got a full series of either one

>>8098073
I'm pretty sure this is what happened, and why he goes from saying he's fighting for reploids to just wanting to infect and kill everyone.

>>8098241
>not even their RPGs like Breath of Fire
I'm STILL mad about Yuna in IV

>>8096139
You'd wish developers cared or kept track for things this much, but if we ever get an X9 it's guaranteed to be a self-contained story that doesn't rely on your knowledge of past games too much and doesn't completely close off the chances of more sequels (like all Classic sequels), and/or a "back to basics" throwback ("we can't continue right after X9, that'll scare off new players!", "people will want Sigma back, right?")

>>8101121
Maybe I'm just too good at Mega Man or just not a bitch but never have I ever experienced the 'input lag' everyone is talking about in ANY of the collections

>>8101121
Why not just play the native Windows port in the first place?

>>8101347
Both would do much better on 3DS as well as PSN/Xbox Live Arcade.
PSP was simply not that popular outside of Japan.

>>8102247
Only a quarter of the 80 million PSPs were sold in Japan.

>>8102251
Fine, PSP wasn't popular among people who'd buy Megaman games and not just pirate GTAs and God of War or something.

>>8101151
>>8101173
The SNES games are running on a really poor SNES emulator, however the PS1 and PS2 games are source code ports and function well. However, I am mad X8 doesn't let you choose voice language like the original 2005 PC version did. I love Mark Gatha's X, but I adore how WEIRD Japanese Vile sounds, it's super fucked up.

>>8101772
IIRC it was fixed in the PC version.
What I'm more salty about is that I feel the slowdown on their emulation is more steep than what it was in real hardware, despite the SNES' CPU being a hamster on a wheel.

>>8095447
Very meh
A return to form after X7 for sure, but it has significant issues and I'm somewhat baffled people here like it this much
As far as I'm aware, most people are not fan of gimmick stages and this is basically gimmick stages: The game. There's practically almost no non-gimmick stages
The team up idea + special was good, but ultimately it makes a lot of the game feel really easy
Also screw those buyable unlockable. The amount you have to grind is insane honestly. Even going in the best farm spot, which is the robot stage, go in a hole and then take axl with the laser weapon and fire away, it will still take HOURS for you to unlock everything. Goddamn

>>8096479
X5 wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the dumbass rocket launch bullshit. Really fun having my first Zero run destroyed to RNG bullshit despite beating all of the stages

>>8098357
Do you think they only "brought back" Wily as Serges/Isoc to revive Zero both times he sacrifices himself as a consequence of Inafune wanting him to be more of a protag than X?

>>8102238
That's what I did. Old PC ports are top comfy.

>>8103264
was Vile's Japanese voice in X8 like that because they haven't nailed it yet? he had the same VA as Sigma and it was his first voiced appearance in a game

>>8101149
But Mega Man 11 was one of the best selling MM games. In fact, it's a shock that there hasn't been a MM12 yet.

>>8095447
The series ended after X5.
Yes I know some of the later ones are good to play but the story is fucking wrecked.

>>8104593
i'm genuinely amazed they didn't at least make like a Proto Man or Bass DLC for 11

>>8103930
Absolutely, also to keep in-universe the fact that Zero "can't be analyzed by current technology". Something that has always been consistance as far back as Mega Man 2 and even in Battle Network was that Wily was better than Light hardware-wise, but Light is the better programmer (Bass is technically superior to Bass, but Mega Man's programming makes him able to come up in the spot to solutions to issues). No one but Wily will repair his shit.

Incidentally, some of the Zero Nightmares in the Japanese version are implied to be Wily AIs looking for Zero's remains. The one that goes "WHERE IS HE!? WHERE IS MY ZERO?!" talks like an old man using "washi" pronouns. Just like Dr. Wily himself does.

Was Lumine an ayy?

>>8105284
he was gayy

>>8104473
Vile didn't come back right in the head after X1, unlike other reploids he's not contaminated by a virus but genuinely malfunctioning, even in Rockman X3 his speech is rather odd compared to X1. DNA resurrection in-universe is a very, very finicky thing that can go wrong easily, with Dr. Wily himself somehow being able of doing it right with all the times he rebuilds his robots. When others try it, they either come back mindlessly (Launch Octopus in MHX) with defective personalities (Vile in X3 and X8) or somewhat bugged (Copy X in MMZ3's voice unit lagging like windows media player running on Windows 95 for more than 10 minutes)

>>8104671
You know, although it would've been better for X to end at 5, the series sequels did add details that would've benefitted other series, like the orbital elevator not only being Area X-2 from MMZ3, but also explaining the gigantic broken tower you see at the bottom of Elysium in Legends 2.

>>8104696
I'm rather upset about that.

>>8105295
>malfunctioning
I think Vile was described as being "malfunctioning" from the start, wasn't he? He had an irrational grudge towards X for being both stronger but also insuntingly more forgiving of people than he was, because Vile's modus operandi was to hunt Mavericks down and destroy them rather than apprehend them.

>>8105327
From the start, Vile was described to be of the very early form of Mavericks where their electronic brains malfunctioned and became violent, disregarding orders and even modifying his body to carry more firepower. One change MHX did was making Vile a third party agent who didn't follow Sigma, while originally he was glad to follow Sigma, especially for the sake of destroying shit (moreso if you take into consideration the stupid retcon in the Rockman X8 website trying to make Vile and Dynamo the same person to justify why he's a Mark-5 and not Mark-3 version of Vile). Supposedly, (Chou Hyakka book) Sigma was the very first reploid with the most advanced electronic brain and the Maverick crisis got solved momentarily once the defects in the reploids' electronic brains got sorted out but then, more Mavericks suddenly emerged as a computer virus spreading through a wireless signal was identified coming from the sealed off Forbidden Area somewhere in the midwestern US close to the specific part of the area where X was found. And that's where Zero was found and wiped the unit of another Field Officer Hunter named Gamma.

>>8097731
>What is likely about CM being canon?
Capcom pushes Cinnamon and Marino too much for CM to be not canon at this point.

>>8106006
1. they are sexy
2. x dive also has bn characters lol

>>8098017
Why lie?

>>8106901
Not a lie. Go check the site through the Wayback Machine or the sources and annotations on JP Wikipedia's article on the game on why X8 Vile is named VAVA Penta

>>8107429
Dynamo really should've been Vile as a recurrent villain. Vile shouldn't have died in X3.

>>8106006
I can understand pushing Cinnamon, the adorable little nurse reploid, but why Marino?
Anyway, I really enjoyed turning Cinnamon into an ultimate killing machine in Command Mission. I have this very strange thing I like to do (if possible/games allow it) where I turn healers/white mages into extremely powerful killing machines. I don't know why.

>>8107525
>why Marino?
Sexy kunoichi.

Did they keep the floating hostage garbage? This is what actually ruined the MMX games.

>>8107830
Thankfully no. As much bad rap Inafune gets for the MN9 debacle, he was the one to tell Valuewave to fuck off with rescueable reploids after the shitshow that was X7. He left MMZ after Z3 to salvage the X series.

>>8107474
Someone at Capcom seems to have thought the same when Vile Penta was written and introduced in X8 as some recurring villain with a long history with X and Zero.

>>8107429
Got a link to the website? Wayback doesn't let me access it.

>>8106589
BN, Classic, Legends, Zero and ZX characters aren't a part of the main lineup. It's not even the first game to acknowledge CM like that.
I also don't see why should Capcom make it non-canon when they can just write with it in mind. I mean, Zero happens in 23XX, so there's plenty of time to make everything happen.

>>8109228
Sorry for being an ackshully pedantic but during their Mega Man 11 thing, they set Zero on 24XX and Legends in 80XX.

>>8107830
>>8109012
Reploids are great because it adds tension to the game. Git gud

>>8109173
I'll check once I'm on a proper desktoo but here's from the wiki source:

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AD%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%83%9E%E3%83%B3X8#cite_note-3

^ Vは『5番目の~』を意味しているが、これは今作において『X5』『X6』の事件はシグマとVAVAが引き起こしたという設定となっており、最後に登場した『X3』の『VAVA mk-II』から更に数えて5番目となっているため

Roughly:
^ V means "5th ~", but in this is setting "X5" and "X6" were caused by Sigma and VAVA in this work. From "X3"'s "VAVA mk-II" this makes him the fifth version.

Why they say this? Because the japanese script literally goes that way. When Zero's sulking and Layer decides to show her thirst one more time, he says "Sigma... Vile... just like old times" in the US version. In the japanese script, he says "Sigma... Vava... that time was the same". She then asks him what is it all about and he says "THESE GUYS" (plural) created a virus based on me. He's literally specifying Vile and Sigma. He says Sigma AND Vile caused X5. He doesn't say "the Mavericks" did it. He says they were there in that occasion, these same two guys.

>>8109952
>tension

>have to do suicide jumps to rescue a faggot
>have to kill myself to avoid a faggot getting infected because I won't be able to reach him in time

Wow, tension

>>8109961
>He wouldn't sacrifice his own life to save innocent Reploid
You're no Maverick Hunter. Go play easy mode (Zero) you homo.

>>8109954
>Vile's hatred for X was so intense that he took off his helmet and pretended to be a cocky cowboy mercenary
I can't tell if I hate or love this idea.

>>8109945
They set ZX as 25XX and it happens 200 years after Zero.
It also says that Zero happens a hundred years after X series, which seems to acknowledge CM as it's set in 22XX.

>>8110176
Personally I like it. A friend who knows JP last year asked around the Rockman circles for their thoughts on the whole Vile/Dynamo thing and they believe this was Capcom attempting to retcon the "dark age" of Mega Man X.

>>8110232
Point taken. Ultimately, this is precisely why Inti did not include a date on Zero and ZX, to avoid contradictions if Capcom ever wanted to extend X further.

>>8110176
Vile hates X enough to make every meeting unique. Once time he was drinking gin when X showed up, and another time he was playing the piano followed by one of the sickest battle scenes in the X series .

Jakob had a godly theme that was wasted on a level that had almost nothing going on.

>>8110294
I think the Jakob was more of an experience than a traditional level, it was awesome seeing how you're going up breaking through the atmosphere, to stratosphere to space.

>>8110337
Might have been acceptable if Megaman X8 had enough traditional levels otherwise.

>>8110346
I understand this complaint, but I personally liked each level being it's own gimmick, only stage I didn't like (until I learned how to cheese) was Dynasty.

They could've used the Jakob for the boss rush like how Azure Striker Gunvolt did with their own Orbital Elevator, but I guess they really wanted Gateway to be there with the giant organ for the religious themeing.

How do I beat gigabolt man o war bros? I remember being stuck on it for like 90 minutes back in the day. I'm not doing this stupid shit right now, I'll drop the game if there isn't some trick to this. Which is a disappointment because I've been having fun so far.

>>8110481
You have to keep grabbing and using boosts.

>>8110493

Can I kill him by boosting into him or something? I've been trying to shoot him.

>>8110532
No, I just meant, you need to grab and use as many boosts as you can so you can keep up with him to keep shooting him. If you get it down just right you can beat him really fuckin' fast.

>>8110481
>>8110532
Boosts are there so you can keep up with Gigabolt. Your goal is to keep a steady stream of fire on him and follow him as closely as you can, and grab the boosts to get close to him; the only way to damage him is the chaser's gun. When sparks start coming out of him, you're almost able to fight him. The lose condition is dying or running out of time.

Yeah, Gigabolt's level is bullshit. Same for Avalanche Yeti.

>>8110634
Gigabolt's is short and sweet when you know what you're doing though, where as Avalanche Yeti is an absolute slog.

No plot armor, no bullshit, who wins in a fight between armored X with a bunch of random weapons and Zero with every technique he's ever learned and the purple saber or whatever the strongest one was?

My money is on Zero honestly but it would be close

>>8095447
I like the game but it's unfortunate that half of it consists of minigames. The multiple playable characters and various unlockables were great.

>>8110270
god the manga was totally batshit i loved it

>>8111171
It's a tie.
X has his infinite potential. He can be the most powerful robot in existence, only hindered by his empathy towards others. His name, "X", is a variable, meaning he can be anything.
Zero is well, 0. His power is absolute, and can nullify anything it "crosses". When they fight, X could potentially be greater than Zero, or not.
Though going by the games, X has defeated Zero twice; once in X5 and again in X6 according to the canon routes.

>>8111237

you heard me, no plot armor, no bullshit, no explanation, WHO IS YOUR MONEY ON ANON

>>8111240
I guess X since Zero died twice and X didn't.

>>8110532
>>8110634
Gigabolt Man-o-War's level can be beaten in a matter of seconds if you keep up close and mashing.
https://youtu.be/mpluwIBQT6I?t=24

>>8111237
The Nightmare is very poorly explained but apparently it's a hallucination of sorts, X was fighting nothing but air in X6.

In X5, it's always a tie regardless of the outcome. If you play as Zero, X will launch a Soul Body from X4 as a suckerpunch to Zero, while Zero would launch his version of Soul Body he gets in X5.

>>8111631
>X was fighting nothing but air in X6
The game shows him saving Zero from that nightmare state though?

>>8111658
I actually used that as an arguement because I refuse to acknowledge the nightmate being only an hallucination, but the person from Get Me Off The Moon I was talking to about MM lore did mention "X6 just did a shit job at both explaining it's inner logic and keeping consistancy within itself. Truly, a shit game.".

>>8111753
He's likely right too.

>>8095447
Best X game of the 6th gen. Goes along with X4 for the 5th and X1 for the 4th. Wish X9 was based on it.

>>8111753
Maybe it's a little of both. The stuff like the solid X and Zero, the magma looking purple, the raining fire in the North Pole and sudden fucked visibility are X and Zero hallucinating shit due to the Nightmare, but the laughing Zero (some of which even talk with Dr. Wily's speech in Japanese), the acid rain and the robot bug camera things are actual physical things caused by the virus. We know in Mega Man, radiation is magic and the original Maverick Virus was made with Evil Energy which has some sort of radioactive compound.

It's really interesting how they kept this theme consistant, even in BN2, radiation makes the internet and the real world merge like in X5 (Zero Space), X5 (Gate's Lab's inside), Zero 3 and ZX (Area N)

>>8107429
>>8109954
Well damn, I didn't notice that citation, my bad. That's some pretty crazy stuff.

>>8113668
>Evil Energy
Quick rundown on the whole virus thing:
Evil Energy was introduced in MM8, arriving on Earth via the corpse of an alien robot from outer space. Wily takes it, transforms it into the Wily Virus, and puts it in Zero's system.
The Wily Virus starts spreading after Zero wakes up, and eventually transfers over to Sigma, allowing him to go Maverick in MMX1.
Sigma then integrates the virus into his own system as to digitize himself, thus creating the Sigma Virus in X2.
The Wily Virus eventually rearranges itself to be more efficient, and a new strain emerges, called the Maverick Virus, in X5. Sigma combines his own virus with the Maverick Virus in order to awaken Zero on behalf of Wily, thus causing the Zero Space incident within Cyberspace (aka Reploid afterlife).
Gate finds Zero's chip in X6 and molds it into his own necromancy-esque Nightmare Virus.
Sigma's system is salvaged, neutered and adapted by Lumine for use in his army of slave robots to build his space elevator in X8. The remains of the Sigma Virus are only found in Sigma's remains on the Moon.

>>8095447
Had potential but it refused to just be an MMX game. What I wouldn't have given for the rest of the stages to be more like the intro and Sigma levels, just platforming and action with no bullshit. Even X5's gimmicky parts were less overbearing.

>>8113724
Incidentally, the virus on a technical level seems to lead a robot to act on an opposite disposition it should it should be pogrammed to act. Zero was already programmed from the get go to be an evil robot, but the virus infection threw him the opposite way according to the development document. So, the good Zero we meet in X1 and play as subsequently is actually an "irregular", as in he's malfunctioning. The whole point of X5 was apparently to fix that oversight on Zero's design.

>>8113929
>Even X5's gimmicky parts were less overbearing.
How's being constantly interrupted by Alia to disguise the fact stages are barren better than x8?

>>8098320
>"Honestly, I don't know why we brought back Zero, only than because we could."
It was because Zero was Inafune's baby and he told the devs it "would be a shame to keep him dead".

>>8114101
Wasn't it the other way around? X6 had to be developed in secret from Inafune, because he was working out Zero series with Inti Creates and he was mad when he learned about X6, when he planned to end X series at X5.
Zero 1 had to be reworked to accommodate it.

>>8114134
I'm talking about X2 here, it is next to the quote you took from X2's section of Official Complete Works. I can't find a picture of it anymore though, but it is quoted on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mega_Man_X2

>Inafune was "hands-off" with the art design in Mega Man X2. He instead began focusing more on planning, producing, and story writing for the newer series beginning with this title. According to Tsuda, it was Inafune's decision to bring Zero back to life in Mega Man X2 simply because he thought it would be "a shame" to keep him dead. Inafune felt particularly attached to Zero, a character whom he had designed and originally intended to be the main protagonist of the X series.Even though Inafune had mostly relinquished his character design duties in Mega Man X2, he refused to allow any drastic changes to the illustration of Zero.

Speaking about Zero and Inti Creates, here's an interview about that: https://www.usgamer.net/articles/companions-through-life-and-death-time-and-again-the-story-of-inti-creates-and-mega-man

Turns out Zero's entire concept was all Inti Creates. Inafune didn't have much to do with X5 neither, and X5 being intended to be the "last game" was always a load of bull. Inafune wasn't even involved with anything after X4; Inti Creates came out with everything in the Zero series, and Inafune even admitted after leaving Capcom that he doesn't really know anything about X5. X5 and X6 had a new team working on them, with X6 continuing from X5's plot by introducing a Serges-like character after all the hints about Wily's new involvement with Sigma in X5. The new team was trying to do a new storyline with lots of focus on Wily, but that got scrapped when the series was handed over to a new team again for X7.

The real problem with this series is that it kept getting passed around after a while and Capcom kept rushing the new teams to get games out quickly so that they could have multiple Mega Man games coming out a year.

>>8114209
I was always very pissed off they abandoned the Wily shit. so I thought to myself, maybe they didn't, and Axl is his creation, since he and no one else knows who the fuck created him.

>>8114345
All we know is that Red found him in some ancient laboratory, I like to imagine Axl was created by either Mikhail Cossack or Kalinka Cossack, especially since the later took after her father in building robots in Rockman Xover

>>8114209
Inafune was clear tho that no matter what Zero had to die in X5 to lead into MMZ.

>>8114209
My bad for not following the conversation.
>>8114448
Did she? I thought that she was just a navigator character there.
Speaking of X-Over, I'm surprised we never got the guy over in X Dive yet.

>>8114454
Inafune gets way too much credit for Megaman despite doing more bad than good.

>>8114448
I would love the idea that Cossack or his daughter created him. On the other hand, it's possible it could've been Dr. Cain's last creation as well, since he's, well, very reploid.
>>8114513
Inafune gets too much credit because he was the most vocal about the Mega Man games and series. He was praised and everyone knew his name, he ended up with a huge ego boost, thinking he could do no wrong, and if he did, fans wouldn't care, because he's Inafune.
I doubt he has such an ego now, Mighty No.9 totally fucked his reputation.

>>8114540
To be fair, he did a lot for the franchise and Capcom in general. It wasn't ideal and people were overblowing his role, but now people are going too hard on the other end.
Even Mighty No.9 is actually pretty interesting from a story (-behind-the-story aka lore) standpoint. I wonder how would it turn out if the devs that he hired weren't incompetent as fuck.

>>8114619
The game itself is okay, average, worth playing once. Just like MMX Command Mission (though i played through multiple times).

Keeping on subject, if they made an X9, how would it go? Where would the story go?
I have 2 theories on this.
>#1 Theory
They make X9 and plan a new trilogy of games in between the stories of X6 and X7, something building up to the story to make the last of the trilogy make more sense (x7,8, command mission). After that they can begin the Elf Wars.
>#2 Theory
X7, 8 and Command Mission are retconned, and they begin where X6 left off. Zero ending non-canon. They can begin the Elf Wars here, or the build-up to it here, so they can keep making new games for more money and our entertainment to discuss this.
>Bonus Theory
They begin where X5 left off. No Zero. X is alone. Gets a little lonely because of this, and maybe a little too edgy. He's got Zero's Sabre.

>>8114498
>Did she?
She built Over-1 and the Over series alongside Dr. Light, they mention her intellect and way of seeing things was quite the marvel. It's a shitty social game that's now dead but it's an interesting tidbit to add

>>8114540
Why would Cain build a reploid only to just seal him away in an ancient laboratory and not tell anyone? This is the same man who funded the Maverick Hunters, created Sigma and funded the repliforce. You're giving him too much credit, it's most likely during the robot ban, the Cossacks had also to work underground like Light when he built X.

>>8114540
>Inafune gets too much credit because he was the most vocal about the Mega Man games and series.
to be fair, thanks to him pushing through we got as many games as we did, Mega Man has never been massively popular like Mario or Sonic, the only time it reached a major status in the Japanese zeitgeist was with Rockman.EXE and even then Capcom fucked that up by rushing BN4 out the door. If anyone else had been in charge they would've let the series just languish and die. The current Mega Man producer did said NO ONE wanted Inafune's job and no one in Capcom ever wanted to work in Mega Man since it's seen as the "low budget series that requishes crunching and the sales aren't even that good".

>>8114897
He would do it because he knew he fucked up the first time, and he's one of the few that knows of Dr. Light. Much like Light, Cain likely tried to make the perfect robot (reploid), and seal it away for diagnostics, after using all known reploid DNA (including Sigma's, before he went maverick) to improve things. Like Light, he wants them to make decisions on their own and have emotions, he basically is trying to make a completely new type of reploid that can be immune to all viruses and be able to make their own decisions like humans.
This shit would be top secret, of course. The government would never allow this, a generation of reploids more advanced than normal reploids. Instead of being based completely off of X's design, the new generation is more human-like in emotions and ambitions (which is a really bad dumb idea, but i think Cain would've tried it before he died)

>>8114973
Although I can see what you mean by this, after the failure of Sigma, the "reploid that would never go Maverick", he seems to have kept a strictly support position as advisor to the Hunters and X until his death.

I wish they had elaborated more on Axl, but if he was found in a long-abandoned underground lab, probably someone at the staff did consider Mikhail. Plus Axl being a redhead like the good doctor.

His A-Trans clearly was Cossack's attempt to create the world's first vodka distillery with free will!

>>8115045
I doubt Dr Cain kept a strictly support role. Like I said he likely hid some secret projects, just as both Light and Wily did.
As for Cossack, if he heard of Light and Wily making future plans after their deaths, I could see him doing that too.
Your Cossack theory has me split. It would need some explanation how Axl is able to do what he does. One could be is he was able to adapt and take robot powers like the original Mega Man, and keep growing stronger. But...how is it he looks so reploid-ish? Perhaps his form changed over time gathering statistics from the outside somehow? On the other hand, X and Zero are the same way, and if Cossack is on par with both of them, there's no reason to believe he wouldn't have planned a robot like X or Zero.

>>8114973
>Cain likely tried to make the perfect robot (reploid)
I doubt he'd try to do that after the tragedy of Dr. Doppler.

>>8115075
That's where Kalinka comes in, not only is Kalinka younger and would have a more streamlined idea of where Robot Master tech would've gone had the Robot Ban not happened by talking to both his father and Dr. Light, but also Xover (if you're willing to acknowledge that shitshow of a "game") showed her that not only her breasts grew since Mega Man 4, but so did her brain, at age 15 already able of designing a robot whose electronic brain and design is closer to what would the completed X would look like than to Rock. Even Rock himself seems to be finally getting hardware updates with Mega Man 11's design.

>>8115094
>>8115128
Where do you think the story will go? What are your theories? I find this all very interesting, and this is the most discussion i've seen in a Mega Man related thread without massive shitposting/shitflinging. You two are some cool mofo's, it's nice to discuss this stuff with you.

>>8115164
>Where do you think the story will go?
Isoc is missing, Hi-Max is crying in the corner, Vile is dead again, Lumine's buried under 200.000 metric fucktons of steel and Sigma's buried in some Moon crater. The next game will probably be centered around Axl being the next "Sigma"

>>8114806
>they made an X9, how would it go? Where would the story go?
X9 will play it safe-ish and borrow heavily from X1, X4 and X8. It will resolve X8 ending and maybe Sigma will be actually finished this time around.
Then they'll make Mega Man XX that will follow Command Mission and will feature a return of Robot Masters somehow, inspired by that one Rock and Cutman character designs for CM as well as Rockman Online.

>>8115164
The main issue is that I don't believe the current Capcom staff care about the story. Classic Mega Man had kept building up the road to X for a while:
>Bass stole data from Light's computer
>Evil Energy, a mysterious compound from space that can interact with machines, being researched
>half of that research is already pre-planned, Wily shows Bass the schematics of Zero
>Wily manages to coax Light's robots into "letting him help them", makes Dr. Light second-thing the viability of X and starts planning the ethical tests make sure he's reliable
>Wily does a test run of an early version of the virus. Dr. Light as a result starts workig on anti virus measures for X, further delaying his development

And then we jump to 11 where we go back to square one, showing (albeit this time with much more detail) when and why Light and Wily had their falling out and Wily stealing robots from Dr. Light. Classic Mega Man is very much a saturday morning cartoon, I doubt they'll ever touch X, unless they're sure about ending it. As for X9, with Sigma dead for good, the only logical step would be the period between the Sigma Wars and the Elf Wars, the creation of the Mother Elf and maybe having a young version of Dr. Weil as a relunctant "ally" in the lab.

ZX is where shit gets interesting, had ZXA not undersold, we would've finally seen the road to Legends and seen how the world flooded and the Master of Elysium's fight against the Elder's System and the adventures of Mega Man Trigger, potentially. POTENTIALLY. The fact the world is flooded in Legends already kind of implies Thetis won the Game of Destiny and got his wish to destroy society by flooding the planet. But Capcom will never work with Inti, Capcom never liked Inti, they only let them work cuz Inafune advocated for them back in MMZ's pre planning.

>>8115313
>I doubt they'll ever touch X
The newest artbook suggests they'll make a new game in the spot X9 is supposed to be in though.

>>8115325
My bad, I meant I doubt they'll ever let classic touch X story-wise ever again and disregard everything done by 7, 8, Power Fighters, 9 and 10. We'll never get anything, not even an after credits scene of Wily going "oh well, back to my other project" and have him working on Zero.

>>8115334
Fuck man, I really want a new MMX game that continues the plot. Fuck accessibility, MM never sold spectacularly, they're not dumb enough to alienate a fanbase as autistic as ours right?

>>8115523
>they're not dumb enough to alienate a fanbase as autistic as ours right?
Anon, have you noticed how they dropped Dr. Wily's involvement with Sigma in X7 like a hot potato? There was some shit way back in the 00's on Planet Mega Man, IIRC for shitty keychains promoting X7, that had Sigma as Final W Mark 2, but I doubt that was actually in-capcom and more to make it a "sequel" to the X5 gacha figurines or some shit. The plot is going to fucking stagnate and I really hate it. Especially because the Elf Wars' setting lends itself perfectly to be a Command Mission subseries in it's own right. Even Inti-Creates took CM into consideration for the audio drama where they had Zero and X do the Final Strike against Omega in the end of the Elf Wars.

>>8115564
Abandoning all those years of lore and story buildup, even if some of it was crazy and out of place, would be the stupidest fucking decision in Capcom's history, bar none. You can't just toss it all in the wind, not after Doppler's sacrifice, not after the war over sapient robot ethics in X4, not after the post-near-genocide cataclysm of the Eurasia crash in X6. All it needs is a good writer to rearrange everything with the retcon to end all retcons and continue from there.

>>8115605
Unfortunately, the devs don't seem to think of Mega Man too highly since it's just "a kids' series".

Inafune tried to push for a proper reboot of the series that would streamline the storytelling and fix the games that were less than stelar, Maverick Hunter X on PSP.
It was dead on arrival.

I can't find the site, but there was a site with interviews with the X5 team translated from Japanese, it had interesting tidbits like Alia's inclusion being a special request of the X4 team, to "add a cute girl character" and the X5 team made her relunctantly because "Isn't this a kids' game? Why add a girl?"

>>8115605
>>8115789
haha found it
>https://asylums.insanejournal.com/rockman_elysium/27991.html#cutid1

>>8114806
X9 has to lead into the elf wars
Please Capcom give me an elf war trilogy

>>8115128
>>8115075
>>8115045
>>8114897
>>8114540
>>8114448
I've always hated the idea of Axl being made by Cossack

>>8115789
It's not wrong to think that, as Mega Man, including Zero and X, IS a series for kids first and foremost. There is a discrepancy in what is considered to be for kids in Japan and the west. That said, I doubt that it means that they don't think about it highly.
>and the X5 team made her relunctantly because "Isn't this a kids' game? Why add a girl?"
Now that's probably just a certain guy's bias and his colleagues thought that he's either autistic or gay, because Japanese series for boys often had at least one or two girls in the cast. Hell, Roll was in MM since the first game. Then there was a whole Legends thing.

>>8115564
Can I get a rundown on the CD dramas. I recall one about Zeros sealing post elf wars. But that confused me into thinking he seals himself away in the x6 ending being a separate event from that. Meaning much like zero constantly dying he keeps also sealing himself. Looking for clarity on this.

All this talk just makes me wonder about what Rockman Taisen is, considering how much faith Capcom places in it.

>>8117000
Yeah, it's expected to be the best selling Mega Man game of all time.
I think there's a high chance it's a fanservicy crossover game as opposed to a regular Classic or X entry, but who knows. Maybe "Taisen" is just a codename.

>>8117891
I mean, that's certainly one of my reads on it too.
Kinda like Super Hero Taisen or Super Robot Taisen, except in Mega Man's case the kanji is different. That said, I doubt that fans alone are enough to sell the crossover and it might be difficult to sell to normalfags.
It really makes me doubt that it can be a 2D platformer though. Maybe a modern-y third-person adventure game? Either as some kind of a Classic reinvention or spinning off from Command Mission. I doubt that they will touch Legends yet.
The name Taisen also implies competition, which makes me think of BN and SF online gameplay, which is good and all, but I doubt that it's an AAA material.

I kinda want to play the games again after all this discussion. Are there any redubbing projects for X4 or japanese translation patches for X4/5/6?

>>8116876
The rundown is:
>The main Elf Wars dramas are on the Telos album, I don't think Idea has any while Physis are voice acted dramas of cutscenes from MMZ4.

>At some point in 22XX Zero went to sleep, after he found out that he's still a source of the virus in spite of all anti viral measures and Sigma being gone. As long as he walks around, Zero will keep infecting reploids.
>His proctologist tells him he'll wake up in August 5th, 105 years from there.
>A few decades(?) after Zero left to sleep, it was decided by X it'd help if Zero was fully analyzed.
>The two most brilliant minds were assigned to the task:
>Ciel's grandmother would handle Zero's mind
>Dr. Weil would handle Zero's body to study it
>Ciel's grandmother was analyzing Zero's programming but nothing seemed to be wrong with it
>Weil on the other hand discovered not only the virus, but the full extent of Zero's inner workings and apparently the other, original broken programming. The Zero we see in the X4 flashback
>Based on Zero's program, Ciel's grandmother develops the anti-Sigma virus vaccine "Mother Elf", by reverse engineering the Sigma virus using Zero's program and virus as a template. This ends the Maverick conflict.
>Weil then fixes the broken Wily coding and augments Zero's body, makes a mech body for it, dubs this awakened Zero "Omega" and unleashes a war so terrible 60% of humanity and 80% of reploids die during it. Also, Weil infects the Mother Elf with a version of Zero's virus he edited, turning her into the Dark Elf.

(1/2)

>>8116876
>>8119210
>X knows he needs all the help he can get
>Asks Ciel's grandmother to make a new body for the Zero program, the good Zero we've always played as she as
>Zero wakes up early in his new body, confused, X explains
>X and Zero defeat Omega and Weil, X and the eight gentle judges decide that death is a fate too good for Weil and instead make his mind into a program so he can suffer in the cosmos forever alongside Omega.
>Zero, still feeling antsy about his program, decides to go back to sleep.
>The Dark Elf is located, X sacrifices his body to seal her in the Ygdrassil, at the center of Neo Arcadia, his DNA soul splits in 5.
>23XX, humanity keep asking where the fuck is X it's been a fucking century already
>The core piece of X's DNA Soul isn't found, the government panics, while an 8 year old Ciel creates the guardians.
>Turns out Ciel's grandmother is also sketchy and Ciel herself is the product of genome experimentation, a designer's baby.
>She's the only one who can fully understand the design notes left by Dr. Light
>She makes the perfect replica of X.
>A completely perfect replica
>Except for the 30 years of ethical testings
>The human government put Copy X in charge so the people feel at ease that "the hero survived his fight"
>Copy X decides to start retiring reploids due to Energy Crystals running low
>The Eight Gentle Judges get disregardes, while the original X had conferences with them to judge if a reploid is a maverick on a case by case basis, they call this out
>Harpuia tells them that "Master X's word is absolute" and if they keep complaining, they'll also be judged as Mavericks.
>14 years old Ciel sets the resistance and goes to find Zero

I skimmed some details, but that's the gist

>>8118448
There's an X4 undub patch but apprently it's not complete? Nothing for X5 or X6 except patches to make them less painful to play.

>>8115564
They built that shit up since X2 then dropped it on a heartbeat, just because Inafune left the fucking party

>>8119312
>They built that shit up since X2 then dropped it on a heartbeat, just because Inafune left the fucking party
It's both that and because X7 had a different writer.

>>8115334
>not even an after credits scene of Wily going "oh well, back to my other project" and have him working on Zero.
On one hand this hurts me. On the other I'd probably get hyped as hell ESPECIALLY if it plays a snippet of Zero's theme from Mega Man X1

>>8118448
years ago i saw a retranslation project for x5 and x6, don't know what happened to it

>>8119210
>>8119221
Not the anon who asked, but thank you for this!

I just beat the game. Aside from the chip store that you have to farm metals for it was a great game, enjoyed it WAY more than X6 and obviously X7. I have a question: so there is a really important post-credits scene with Axl which I didn't get, how do you obtain it? Do you just have to beat Lumine with Axl?

>>8119707
You get an extra ending clip for each of the two characters you beat the game with. Axl's is a brief sequel hook.

>>8119713
Oh I get it. So Axl gets a post-credits scene unlike X and Zero. Do you think Capcom will remember that Lumine is supposedly living inside Axl's body when developing X9? Damn we Kingdom Hearts now

>>8119727
All three characters get an ending clip, but it's before the credits. It's while they're riding the space elevator back to earth. There's no extra postcredits scene.

>>8119736
Oh wait, I'm wrong. In addition to the three clips, there's a brief postcredits scene. I can't remember how you get it.

>>8119736
No, actually Axl's scene is after the credits. After that text dump and Dr. Lights message
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSw0NQLGgMM&ab_channel=Neophenom
3:25
The problem is that it's an important scene and in my opinion they should've shown it regardless of which character you beat Lumine with

>>8119746
Two elevator clips for X and Zero, Axl doesn't have one. He gets a 5 second post-credits scene instead

The neutral armor was one of the best ideas in the game. It combines the best parts of the X1-X4 and the X5-X6 systems.

>>8119352
This literally happens in Power Fighters.

>>8118448
>>8119287
X5 Improvement Project and X6 Tweaks include improved translations done from scratch now.
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=29471.0
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=26507.0

>>8118448
>>8119287
>>8120351
Latest news on all three projects:
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=33284.0

>>8120359
Nice, thanks anon.

>>8120018
I always liked the Neutral Armor's design, it's a bummer everyone hates it.

>>8121636
I don't particularly like the design but from a gameplay perspective it's cool.

>>8095447
Is this good? After X6 and X7 left a sour taste on my mouth I dropped this one instantly, does it follow X7 more in terms of gameplay, is it really as good as X4 or is that a meme?

>>8121920
It's a return to form, I really like it, but people hate it has 2 Ride Chaser stages (one can be beaten in matter of seconds if you just boost and shoot tho) and an auto-scroll segment to a stage

>>8121920
>does it follow X7 more in terms of gameplay
No, almost the entire thing is a side-scroller. Look up gameplay on Youtube.

>>8121920
The core gameplay is classic sidescrolling, but there are too many gimmick levels. It's an improvement over 6 and 7 but I wouldn't say it's better than 5.

>>8123012
my problem with the gimmick levels is they felt scripted. part of the mega man experience is figuring things out yourself

based game

>>8123034
How are they scripted? For example, the scrolling in Burn Rooster's stage isn't any different from Cossack Stage 3 except for the orientation

>>8124301
burn rooster is one of the better stages. still, you get exactly one platform at a time and the scrolling doesn't give you much choice but to move to that platform. then the lasers are extra constraining
levels like the stealth one or the gravity shifting one are worse about it. if you don't follow the exact planned path, you get immediately punished. with instant death in the gravity one

>>8124439
Getting all the goodies in the Gravity stage can be quite a pain. And let's not forget the RNG for the midboss fight. If you're lucky, you fight vile. If you're not, you have to deal with that shitty segment of dodging the blocks.

>>8124469
>>8124439
Gravity Antonion's stage compensates by having the best theme in the game.

>>8124480
I can agree with you on that one. Also the stage is pretty fun on new game+ when you don't need to worry about collecting anything.

>>8095447
People are critical of the charged shot being OP in the classic series, but it's nothing compared to the upgraded buster here. It's freakin kame hame ha!

>>8125353
It really does take a good chunk of the screen too.

>>8114448
>>8114540
>>8114897
I don't really get this theory since X was built in secret as the first of his kind and sealed away until a literal archeologist found him. Wily had an excuse for creating Zero (EE) but Axl just being the same case would be kinda weird. I don't think Cain made him either since by the time he died after X3 (or when Able City was nuked in MHX) he was very regretful of sentencing reploids and humans to the hundred years of disaster that would follow.

>>8127289
IIRC the american X5 website said that Dr. Cain's last creation was Signas based on both Sigma and Colonel's schematics.
There's absolutely NO proof of this in any Japanese source to my knowledge, but I like this as my own fun headcanon, since Sigma was Cain's "greatest creation" and look how that go.

>>8127592
American localization takes too many liberties to make jap games appealing to western audiences.

>>8127875
That was THEIR plan all along. To discredit glorious nippon.

>>8127885
Vava is a stupid name for a rival though

>>8095447
God awful game. Even if the gameplay is 2d, any game that shoehorns 2d gameplay in 3d graphics is bound to play like shit. Even DKC demonstrates this and it's just prerenders. The beauty of X1-3 is you immediately know how to play with precision.

The story isn't interesting. At the end of X4, there's a question of whether X will go maverick. Okay, so in X5 you should've started out as Zero because apparently X has lost his goddamn mind. Then you can get into whoooooo created Zero and why? Since I guess Zero is patient 0 (huh...) re: the maverick virus (is it a virus that causes them to go maverick, or are they just making their own decisions because reploids, like X can do that?), I guess we could explore the idea that Sigma was accidentally Wily's greatest creation.

Point being, Capcom lost the fucking thread.

>>8127960
>DKC bashing
this poster fancies cocks

>>8127996
it's not bashing, you fucker. DKC is funky kong sometimes because it's prerenderes and not pure pixel. so determining if you're too close to something can be weird. it's still a good game, so don't get your feelings hurt.

>>8127927
I mean... is Boba any better?

>>8128046
Why are you so agitated lol take your meds

>>8128105
I'm waiting to see the doctor.

>>8128084
Better than Bile I guess

>>8127875
maybe chinkoids should learn to write

>>8128779
Seething amerishart

Just finished X4 again with the patch. The bosses are still really damn fun to fight, especially Colonel. Dash jumping is is smooth and the X-Buster upgrade is still the most satisfying weapon to use. It really is the best in the series after X1.

>>8127875
Wouldn't be necessary if the stories were good to begin with

>>8132412
what does the patch do? just return to Japanese voices?

Also a reminder that X6 saved X from becoming the main antagonist of the MMZ series by being an unauthorized production, which would've been an affront to his character if it had come to pass. For that I am grateful that X6 exists.

>>8132952
There's the undub patch which returns the ingame japanese voices, japanese voices for cutscenes, adds english subtitles for cutscenes and changes the intro music to the japanese version. The undub + retranslation does all of that and changes the script to a more coherent translation rather than keeping the original english localization, as well as changing the font of the text boxes to a more compact design to fit more text.
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=26255.0

>>8133007
Evil-X was apparently only conceived as a joke, and in the end it was Inti themselves who vetoed it, not Capcom.

>>8133535
You say that but X-kai was supposed to be the leader of the X-Hunters in X2, directly references as being a prototype doppelganger of X that Wily built (after somehow finding out that Light was building X) and was later finished by Serges but he was cut from the game due to the constraints of the cartridge.

>>8133552
>X-kai
what is the significance of -kai?

>>8105343
The franchise waffled on what being a maverick actually means. Reploids were all about having free will so a maverick was a reploid that happened to choose violence or other criminality. The Maverick Hunters are really just robot cops with X and Zero getting involved based on their leader Sigma staging a rebellion with a few like-minded subordinates. The virus angle, that mavericks are actually NOT fully in control of their faculties, came around later. Vile seems stuck between these two interpretations.

>>8133007
x regularly questions whether fighting 8 mavericks and then raiding a sigma fortress is an effective peacekeeping measure
it's not a great leap to imagine he'd try other shit after 400 years and like 4 near apocalypses.

>>8133603
x never made his own decisions, he's not idealistic, he's incredibly passive by-the-book type of guy

>>8133568
Kai = modified, upgraded (in japanese).
Also X going bad was hinted at during X's ending in X4, which still makes no sense and would've been a terrible idea even as a joke.
>>8133603
It is an effective measure. He questions how long the wars are going to keep happening.
Remember X was shoved into a capsule to have his sense of mercy trained for 100 years. He refuses to become a dictator by choice but he has no qualms about killing a bad guy if means saving an innocent. In fact, of all things, X simply gets old and tired of it by the time MMZ happens, and effectively retires to cyberspace by the end of Zero 3.

>>8133603
X's personality is he either says yes or no, for the perfect Reploid he sure acts like a total bonehead.

>>8133618
>>8133632
X is idealistic, but he's more of a fighting man who does the heavy lifting rather than a politician who commands an entire landmass of people. Think tobot Jesus, not robot Otto von Bismarck.

X is really questioning the humans, not the reploids or mavericks. The Maverick Hunters aren't fully autonomous. They answer to humans. And the humans are panicky and fall into a Red Scare over the maverick situation. So they keep ordering the Hunters to shoot first and ask questions later and the Hunters themselves are afraid to argue out of fear of being labeled maverick themselves. X4 is actually decent at showing the politics of it but unfortunately we don't see this clearly because the humans are absent from the story. X is stuck asking "why the fuck are we doing this?" which conflicts with his "humans are awesome" ideology. His inability to reconcile that is why he suffers paralysis by analysis. He's able to be a free thinker but doesn't really know how to do it because of his environment.

>>8133690
The X series is actually a really good, if unintentional, police brutality allegory.

>>8133694
>>8133618
>>8133603
The Japanese word used for "Roger", Ryōkai, has an interesting meaning. He's answering that to his commanding officer, but it's slightly rude in the sense it implies "I'll do it, but I'll do it when and as I see fit, not as you may want".

>>8133690
>>8133716
X has had doubts since X1, true, though Light has always intended him to think for himself, and Cain shared this ideal when he made reploids. Humans were starting to go extinct by the time X4 happened but most of the damage was caused by mavericks, until the Repliforce debacle began. Then hell started to break loose, and it was around then that X started wondering why reploids don't get to have due process when told to comply.

>>8133727
It's interesting that Dr. Cain is an archeologist, not a robotics engineer like Dr. Light. It implies that he wasn't up to the task of following Light's work, which is why there are so many mavericks in the first place.

>>8133727
Humans didn't start going extinct in X4, it was the Eurasia colony crash and especially the Elf Wars what did a number on humanity, the latter especifically killing 60% of the global human population.

>>8133747
According to official materials, the reason Cain built reploids despite being an acheologist, is because "he was the most brilliant mind of the 22nd century".

>We have become masters of science!

>>8133747
That's the actual reason. Reploids lack a sense of empathy as complex as X's, making them far more susceptible to becoming mavericks, because Cain couldn't figure out all of X's coding (and no one really can). Reploids are emotionally more infantile than X.
>>8133752
>Humans didn't start going extinct in X4
The Eurasia was built to house most of the remaining humans and keep them safe from the Maverick wars happening on Earth after the Repliforce war destroyed a fuckton of urban areas (half the levels in X4 take place in cities or happen in the outskirts of cities that were destroyed). The only maverick who's ever stepped into Eurasia was Dynamo, and he brought the whole thing down. Most of the population was on Eurasia. It was that important.

>>8133769
That suonds interesting, is there a source or is this headcanon?

>>8133769
>Reploids lack a sense of empathy as complex as X's, making them far more susceptible to becoming mavericks
>Most of the population was on Eurasia
Got a source for either of these? The most I found on the former is that the Zero Complete Works said X had a "suffering circuit" which let him decide what was right and wrong that had some issues being recreated by Dr. Cain in the first stages of Reploid production.

>>8133769
>Reploids are emotionally more infantile than X.
This seems to be a running theme, too, that free will is only as good as the upbringing. The original Mega Man was more or less raised as a son by Dr. Light. Mega Man X and most other reploids, on the other hand, are just sent off to work...some in public safety. It'd be like sending grade schoolers into the adult workforce and making a few of them cops. Even X kind of suffers from this, which is why he gets so angsty.

>>8101667
I said it before and I said it again: if and when X9 happens, Dr. Cain is going to be in it just fine after an unexplained multigame absence.

>>8104671
>ended
X5 would've been an okay end to the series if it didn't introduce a bunch of supposedly oneshot characters.

>>8133769
Eurasia was one of several space colonies that were undergoing renovation after being damaged during X4 according to the X5 Japanese manual, Eurasia being a particularily old colony undergoing an extensive one, easy for Dynamo to take over.

>>8133823
X1 instruction manual page 9 states that Reploids don't have the same amount of ethical training as X, and this is shown many times. Every character X meets is more extreme in their own personality programming than X himself. While X has some innocence, people like Iris are extremely innocent. While X has some pride in his role as a peacekeeper, people like Colonel are extremely prideful. While X does get angry at mavericks for not listening to him, people like Flame Stag are extremely impatient. He has insight on every aspect of a situation while other reploids just go "you're too trusting/naive/pushy/self-important", not because X is all of those things, but because reploids lean very hard in the opposite direction.

>>8133861
Page 8*

>>8133856
It was a massive installation though, named after a supercontinent, even. Space stations aren't mentioned that much in MM canon (other than maybe the one Duo worked at?) but if Repliforce had to build their own, there probably aren't that many in orbit.

>>8133852
I think the only one that didn't come back after X5 was Lifesaver?

>>8133910
MM3 had a vague plot about space minerals and planetary worlds or something but it's explained so poorly and barely followed up on.

>>8109954
I can't believe this is actually true.
Explains a lot, except..not really, since Dynamo was never destroyed in X5 or X6. I don't think Capcom is erasing Dynamo from existence, since he still makes appearances in the odd spinoff, but the suggestion is rather that Dynamo is a form of Vile. The question is, is he III, IV, or both? And at what point was it discovered that Dynamo's identity was Vile? It'd have to have happened off-screen anytime before or after X7.
Someone update the wikis.

>>8133910
The speeds of building shit in Mega Man are ludicrous. In less thanna year, Wily and Light build Gamma, Humans did the Orbital Elevator and Elysium, an artificial planetoid

>>8133969
It's kind of amazing Inti followed on that MM3 plot with energy crystals being such a rare resource on Earth they had to mine the cosmos until they finally began running out leading to the unjust retirement of reploids

>>8134036
>The question is, is he III, IV, or both?
X5 is III, X6 is IV when he allegedly became stronger thanks to Nightmare Souls and enhanced himself (haha yeah right)

>>8134036
It is yet another retcon and does nothing but create weird inconsistencies in this series’ lore that is completely unnecessary. What does making Dynamo into Vile add outside of retconning Vile into X5 for not other reason that weird fan service for Vile fans.

What does this mean for reploid bodies and reploid DNA. Dynamo is a completely different height than Vile, different skills, different personality. It’s easy to say: he was acting, or a machines form doesn’t matter with the AI put in. But then that raises questions as to the role personalities play in reploid dna shit if at all. Then Dynamo would have had to die to cover being both MK 3 and 4. But also is brought back exactly the same.
What then happens to all the nightmare oils dynamo has. Also I’m unclear if Viles newest form is considered a New Generation reploid and if they were this only muddies things more like with the Spider/Redips situation.
Can this bit of lore be justified as more than a throw away line on a website and referencing off screen events in x8’s dialogue?

>>8134071
Vile's personality has always been weird and distorted since X3, it was implied he wasn't brought back right in the Japanese dialogue, he has a weird speech pattern, and in Rockman X8 he has the voice of a maniac.

>>8134036
Dynamo is way too different to be Vile. What keeps Vile alive is precisely the fact that he's very fucking mad at X and wants him dead, meanwhile Dynamo's like "Hi" when they meet. He's cool in his own way but combining him and Vile for the sake of a retcon would ruin both characters.

>>8134097
Vile being mad at X was a retcon in itself brought by MHX, in MMX and RMX proper hes like "HAHA RIDE ARMOR GOES BRR"

>>8098017
>>8109954
>>8110176
>>8134036
>>8134046
>>8134071
>>8134084
>>8134097
This honestly needs, like, an Xtreme 3 to explain itself.

>>8134084
I'll forever be mad that Vile wasn't brought back time and time again as a secret character behaving more and more insane each time he's reconstructed, being too angry to die. He could've had his own game based on his survival and plans towards his next meeting with X, with X himself being the final boss.
>>8134105
>Vile being mad at X was a retcon
You sure? Their relationship seemed pretty clear in MMX3 when he told X
>"I WILL HAUNT YOU TO THE DAY YOU DIE (MOTHERFUCKER)"
before exploding.

>>8134115
Yeah and haunt he did. Fucking with the Enigma and the Shuttle, taking time away from the hunters, fucking around during the Nightmare incident, he is haunting X and testing his patience.

>tfw you realize Dynamo behaves like manga Vile
>X and Zero enter a bar and Dynamo is there drinking bourbon

>>8134121
You mean, like... a Vile virus?
Alright, fuck this. You got me hyped. Vile is so pissed off that he wills his way into cyberspace and keeps building himself new bodies at the abandoned scrap wasteland that used to be Dopple Town. I love it. Bring him back.

>>8115789
Honestly I feel like the two PSP remakes bombing was what started the decline of the series.
Such an ambitious project is started, and then the sales convince Capcom nobody's going to bother playing through it all.
If they started it now, with how prevalent digital storefronts are, I think it could have found an audience. It's a real tragedy that those games came out at the wrong time.

>>8109954
>>8133848
>X9 eventually comes out
>Vile VI is in
>It's a design mash-up of Vile and Dynamo (sorry, the helmet's gotta go now that Star Wars is owned by Disney)
Can anyone find a working backup of the official Japanese site?

>>8119221
Copy X turning out the way he did because they skipped the ethical testing process was genius.
At first he just seems like "evil X" and then you realize he's the way he is because they skipped a crucial step in building the original.

>>8134184
>helmet's gotta go now that Star Wars is owned by Disney
What if he has a Corinthian-style helmet?

>>8134193
Not to mention they made what is essentially ba newborn child into EL PRESIDENTE of the world.

He was going to become either Hitler or Kuzco.

You are now thinking of what could be Copy X's New Groove

>>8133848
>Cain has his own upgrade holograms now just like Dr. Light

>>8134115
>I'll forever be mad that Vile wasn't brought back time and time again as a secret character behaving more and more insane each time he's reconstructed, being too angry to die.
That'd have been rad. I wanted something similar for Sigma, but I can see Vile filling that role better. Each body getting more and more distant from his original humanoid shape.

>He could've had his own game based on his survival and plans towards his next meeting with X, with X himself being the final boss.
That'd also be sick. I could see a more ambitious version of MHX's Vile mode working really well as a full-scale game. Maybe it'd throw in some customization features to give some flexibility in how players approach a situation, so there could be a Vile "build" that's specialized for fighting up close with a mace-arm like he had in his concept art, or a Vile who's suited for dashing and blasting through the air.

>>8134193
>>8134218
Their biggest mistake was making X head of government. He only governed Neo Arcadia because there was no one else to do it. V was always a soldier, and without his Jesus ethical programming you just have a war machine like Copy X in charge of the world.

>>8134234
>I wanted something similar for Sigma
It basically is. You can see Sigma losing his marbles in X5 and in X6 he's a literal zombie whose only lines of dialogue when meeting X are
>"Die! Jussdie, X!" (garbled braindead muttering)
Vile could've been the perfect wild card throwing both the Hunters and Sigma out of their elements as his own one-man faction, like Crush Crawfish or Darth Maul.
>a Vile "build" that's specialized for fighting up close with a mace-arm like he had in his concept art, or a Vile who's suited for dashing and blasting through the air.
And all of them would be canon since Vile keeps rebuilding himself.
We're just writing a new Megaman X spinnoff game for free at this point.

>>8134115
if they remade X2 I'm torn between if they should have given Vile another story mode or Agile

>>8134184
if he starts out with the helmet and it breaks off and reveals dynamo after the first battle that'd be some kino shit

>>8134247
Agile's just an edgier Colonel, but his stage theme is pretty sick.

>>8134250
>X4 remake has unlockable Colonel and Double stories
imagine

>>8109954
This is pretty wild. I always wondered why Capcom suddenly started to act like Vile was a constant in the series as of MHX, and that's because they retroactively decided he was in most of the games in X8.
>>8134097
>that pic
Honestly, Dynamo should NOT be privvy to that information. One of the ways he would even know that is..if he's Vile. What I don't get in this retcon is if Dynamo was an act or another personality. If he was acting, for what purpose? Because his old identity is too marked? Should've thought of that before trying to drop a space colony. If another personality, did Sigma mess him up on purpose?
>>8134249
>X: *stunned* Y..you..!
>Zero: *composed* I see my suspicions have been confirmed, VILE...alias, DYNAMO...
>Axl: *confused* OK you guys, I'm officially out of the loop again, so tell me if there's something more I should know about this closet bishounen jerk.
Really, best way this can be reconciled is if they imply Zero was investigating Dynamo on his own time and found clues that he might be Vile.

>>8134461
>This is pretty wild. I always wondered why Capcom suddenly started to act like Vile was a constant in the series as of MHX, and that's because they retroactively decided he was in most of the games in X8.
A while back, last year, a friend of mine decided to ask around the Japanese Rockman circles for their thought on that tidbit and their take was "lol Capcom trying to retcon the bad era of Rockman X".

>>8134461
MHX did had Zero being able to deduce shit with little hints and having a good hunch about things, it wouldn't be too out of character to have Zero doing his own detective research on the mercenary known as Dynamo after things settled down in the years between X6 and X7.

>>8134493
>>8134461
Zero is part of the Covert Ops Battalion in the Maverick Hunters, he already investigates shit.

>>8134504
Isn't the Special 0th Unit supposed to terminate with prejudice first and ask questions later? And the 17th Elite Unit more investigative?

>>8134514
17th Elite is the kill-first team. Covert Ops investigates, it's just that Zero's also in the 17th, along with X, Sigma, Vile, and half of X1's bosses.

>>8134524
Is Covert Ops part or the entirety of the Special 0th Unit?

I'm actually surprised if this is the case, since X is B-Rank due to his combat hesitation but according to some sources he's an ace at arresting and peaceful negotiations while Zero goes "haha light sword goes swish"

>>8134535
X is B-ranked but he's also in the 17th because he can kill shit better than most people when diplomacy is not an option. Remember how the MHX OVA started?
Zero is a stubborn "give up or die" dude on duty but he also does covert scouting. That's the reason why he's gone for most of the game in X1.

>>8134549
Not only is he in the 17th Unit, he's the commander of the entire unit after Sigma went Maverick and Zero blew himself up in X1.

>>8134559
After stopping Wolf Sigma all on his own he got bumped right up to S-rank.

>>8134562
Then he must've dragged all way down, by X5, he's B-Rank again, and the series never let go of that.

>>8134571
Well X5 was a fucking mess so I don't know, maybe they just forgot lmao
Maybe he demoted himself after wondering if he would turn into the next Sigma in X4, like he does when destroying his armor sets after every game.

>>8134576
To be fair, ranks were introduced in X5, but the Complete works and X6 seem to lean that X gets perma-stuck on B-Rank in spite of his power and position as commander because he hesitates too much to take decisive action in situations combat was avoidable, while Zero instantly goes for slice and dice

>>8134583
Could this be a hint that the Maverick Hunters prize efficiency in killing irregulars rather than solving problems the diplomatic way like X usually tries to do? More police brutality allegories.

I like the cartoon's interpretation of Mega Man X as a single minded nutjob.

https://youtu.be/MVUlyaQwF7w?t=255

>>8134590
You know, considering in Legends they devolved from a para-military law-enforcement unit into a societal hierarchy organization where those in the high ranks are called "Purge Officers" and the Hunters in charge of the various areas of the planet are called Municipal Units, and the Municipal Units need approval from Purge Officers to mass-murder populations of artificial life forms because their numbers exceeding counts as "Maverick behavor"... Yeah, the Maverick Hunters were never about peace, they were about killing anything that displeased the humans.

>>8134601
For me, it's Brasilian comic X.

>>8134583
Which makes no sense since the only times we actually see X doing anything it's when shit has hit the fan and he has to shoot things. The second game is only six months after the first and the third has him and Zero working together.

>>8134619
Is that the one where X wants to fuck Roll, who spends a lot of time running around naked?

>>8134632
Yes, uma delicia.

>>8134601
>"I'm Megaman X, Dr. Light. You created me."
Fucking burgers manage to get even the smallest details wrong with their damn cartoons.

>>8134632
He wants to fuck every female and is a glorious bastard who is tired to see the war and destruction.

>>8134646
What's wrong about that sentence?

>>8134668
X doesn't remember who Dr. Light is, doesn't recognize the guy in the holograms of his armor pods (because Light never says his own name when talking to X) and he doesn't remember that Dr. Light made him.

>>8134672
It seems unlikely that Dr. Cain wouldn't have told him.

>>8134672
To be fair, that wasn't obvious back when the episode aired. In fact, I'm almost sure Maverick Hunter X retconned that explicitly - the original games don't really make it clear.

>>8134672
Rightot/Auto is still alive in X's time, someone should get him to X.

>>8134693
>>8134696
Cain originally didn't know either, prior to MHX. I'm sure there was a reason for X not remembering Light after 100 years because it was a rather important point about X's story ("why is this hologram telling me that I'll eventually find my place in the world?"). MHX retconned that a little bit by showing X actually being awake when Light was still alive and talking to him which is quite touching to be honest, though Cain did see the video memo that Light left behind in his lab when he found X.
>>8134703
X doesn't know anyone from the Megaman Classic series.

>>8134726
>X doesn't know anyone from the Megaman Classic series
that's why they got to introduce any surviving character to him, duh

>>8134726
>Cain originally didn't know either, prior to MHX.
He absolutely did. He was able to hack into X's capsule.

>>8134746
MM Classic robots don't know X is Light's creation either. Nobody fucking knows X is Light's creation, and X barely so.
>>8134753
He hacked the capsule but Light was long dead by the time he did. Every single time X finds an armor capsule Dr. Light talks to him in such a mysterious manner that X simply doesn't know who he is. In fact it's in MHX that X finally starts figuring out who the hell Light is, and keep in mind this happens well after Sigma goes maverick, decades after Cain wakes X up. The fact that this is never cleared up with a line of dialogue from X or in any cutscene is way too weird for such an important detail.

>>8134787
Dr. Cain knows who Dr. Light is. The whole reason he finds X is because he dug up Light's lab.

>>8134839
Yeah he does, I was wrong on that. Then it leaves the question of why X wasn't told.
Also I just remembered this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HENnORyfEPs

>>8134787
What? My point is that Dr. Cain definitely knows for sure unless he fell asleep during the warning screen. It doesn't really make sense for him to keep it to himself and then for X to just accept his armor mods without question. In general, I kinda dislike the Japanese "ooh, the protag doesn't know everything the player knows" stuff in the Rockman games - like, is there any reason Rock can't even know that Blues/Proto Man is really his brother after 3? It doesn't really add anything in the story to keep him in the dark like this. Anyway, I'm not sure how much credence you wanna give the remakes, considering their canon is kinda unfinished. The first X game takes place less than a year after his activation according to Cain's journal in the manual, I think.

>>8134859
I think MHX just made shit up. It was supposed to be the first game in a series of remakes and since those games were never made it conflicts with the originals and probably shouldn't be used as a replacement for the real X1.

>>8134875
MHX has some conflicts but also gives more details than X1 in certain areas, like the motivations of the characters, rather they went maverick because of the virus or not, etc.

>>8134753
>Dr. Thomas Light
>Dr. Albert W. Wily
>Dr. Mikhail Sergeyevich Cossack
>Dr. Cain

>>8134898
MHX implies that there might not even BE a virus, at least beyond Sigma (assuming he was still infected by Zero).

MHX shows Dr. Cain dying at the start of the game even though he appears in X2. The game is total nonsense.

>>8134920
Well it is a reboot, or was supposed to be

>>8134920
That's what a retcon is dummy, and some actually stuck like Vile acting in his own interest rather than being Sigma's lackey.

>>8134947
Maybe in spinoffs with his MHX design, not the main series.

>>8134920
You know that Simpsons bit where a building is destroyed by a missile but the occupants just get up and shrug off the debris like nothing happened (one says "I actually feel better!") It's like that.

>>8134947
It's silly to start picking and choosing which MHX retcons should stick when the rest of the remakes didn't happen. As it stands, it's an orphaned game that shouldn't have any leverage since it makes the rest of the games weird and forces people to do a bunch of mental gymnastics to make it all work.

>>8135082
the timeline and canon has been fucked since X4, the X series canon now begins with the Xtreme series for GBC

>>8135132
I think you misunderstood the plot of Xtreme.

>>8134693
>>8134726
>>8134726
>>8134753
Chou Hyakka to the rescue!
Dr. Cain didn't told X who built him or that he was the original, by the time X woke up he simply incorporated into the early reploid society and joined the Maverick Hunters when the first wave of Mavericks, caused by faulty electronic brains, attacked humans and reploids alike. He didn't found out who built him until much later and even then in-game he doesn't seem to react much to the revelation other than confusion. Meanwhile, Sigma knows everything and is amused by it.

The novel "Irregular Report" showed X being angry at being lied to, but gets over it quick.

In the games proper, the state keeps X's origin strictly secret, Ground Scaravich was shot because he broke into the Forbidden Area X and Zero were found and found out too much, while Colonel tells Lifesaver to keep his trap shut when Lifesaver begins putting 2 and 2 together regarding Zero and the Virus.

>>8134703
All robots were banned and dismantled between Classic and X, replaced by Mechaniloids.

>>8135132
Xtreme took place within Cyberspace, it didn't mess with the timeline or reality.

>>8134868
>The first X game takes place less than a year after his activation according to Cain's journal in the manual, I think.
The english translation of the X1 manual isn't all that reliable, since it has stuff like "X must be wondering about what Dr. Light meant for him to do" or shit like that not present in the Rockman X1 manual.

>>8135303
Cain's Journal apparently got translated and released in Japan with an X game, so it might be considered canon over there too.

>>8135303
The dates are listed pretty sequentially in chronological order, from April 8 to July (JP)/June (EN ) 4.

>>8135352
That's not less than a year, that's A LITTLE OVER a year, anon. You fucking lied to us.

>>8098349
>if Light can be a fucking force ghost with his goddamn capsules I guess Wily can be a force ghost orchestrating things behind the curtains.
Rereading some stuff I think this is the case after all. Isoc's body is found without a reploid soul by the end of X6. If Light uploaded himself into a holographic avatar to help X, Wily most likely made himself a bunch of robot bodies to move his consciousness to, somehow.

>>8135343
Not exactly, the journal was also in the Japanese manual, the english version of the manual is a translation of the original Japanese, which in general is the same but adds bits like that. Then in latter copies, the manual was like it's own little booklet, I think it's in the Legacy Collection.

>>8133823
The suffering chip is a feature of Zero's not X's. We see it in X4 in the flashback cutscene even

>>8135464
Suffering Circuit is a feature of X, the simulations in the 30 tests were to program it.
X4, the W in Zero was him having a stack overflow. He was already "the baddest robot", as the development document called him, and getting infected by the virus made him loop back into being good.

Zero's fucking brain is a Famicom cartridge.

>>8135501
what virus the Sigma virus? so Sigma was already spreading robot AIDS before he was confirmed maverick?

>>8110232
Where is this scan from?
>>8109954
>>8134071
>>8134036
>>8134097
>>8134461
Dynamo being Vile is proof western translators have a social responsibility to manipulate the source material

>>8135507
The term "Sigma Virus" became used by the staff and the books for the virus altogether that began getting transmitted from the Forbidden Area, infecting Mavericks, until a reploid named Gamma was sent to investigate alongside his 15th Unit and then were all destroyed by Zero. Considering Doppler's revelation im X3 "Sigma's true identity is a virus!" it seems the anon above isn't wrong. We only fight the reploid Sigma in X1 and everything since has been the virus that awoke alongside Zero, mixed with Sigma's AI, overtaking it. Probably it merged with Sigma's AI because, as Dr. Cain's diary says, his electronic brain was supposed to be resilient to corruption and malfunction. Either way the Virus did ended up replacing Sigma, becoming for all intents and purposes Sigma himself. Hence in X8 being nothing but a virus in the moon.

tl;dr: Devs call Sigma Virus even the virus that awoke alongside Zero before Sigma proper for infected don't think too hard about it.

>>8135525
Translators manipulating the source material is exactly why we the non Japanese fanbase had for decades to struggle with so many plotholes.

>>8135525
That shit is made up. There is no setting Dynamo was never Vile, the most likely explanation is the events of X5 and X6 were retconned to remove Dynamo from the continuity, putting Vile in his place instead.

>>8135578
>never
*ever

>>8135578
It's fun to speculate, though, that's the face under the Toys R Us Boba Fett helmet

>>8109954
I want to get the japanese scripts for X7 and X8 to run them through DeepL. I've heard X7 has a lot of characterization changes for no good reason, and X8 is clearly wackier at points.

>>8135660
Honestly, X8 isn't wacky, it's fairly grounded in itself. Even DNA Copying makes sense, it's a new technology that could save budget expending.

>>8135669
Maybe, but I still think some of the finer points of the translation were lost since part of this thread has things like ZERO saying that Sigma and Vile worked together on X5.

>>8134036
So, I have an alternate interpretation. The English lines aren't too far off, so for context, Zero just mentioned Vile and Sigma, Layer asks if they remind him of the virus, and Zero responds by saying if she'd heard that they tried to use him to destroy the world. The biggest difference is that the English version says that "he" (meaning Sigma) did it. What if both are somehow correct in a way? Hear me out. The English version takes this line to be referring to the events of X5, so the localization seems to correct it - but what if the Japanese version isn't strictly about X5, in which case it can still work? Here's the thing - in X5, Dynamo and Sigma try to destroy the world by crashing a space colony into it. The Zero Virus is created incidentally AFTER the space colony is no longer a threat, and it stays rather localized to the Sigma stages instead of speading around the world like the Sigma Virus did earlier. Sigma really didn't do anything with the Zero Virus in X5, and Dynamo bailed by then. This leads me to think that maybe the Zero Virus did come back in some form sometime after X6 (it never sat right with me that it vanished unceremoniously), and Vile and Sigma were involved in another incident where the Zero Virus took a more active role? I know, "Vile V", but even if you replace Dynamo with Vile or say they're the same character, this other detail doesn't fully line up either since they never weaponized the Zero Virus together.

>>8135686
Oooh ho, fair enough. If you do that, post results. Let me help you.

>https://hondoori.wordpress.com/scripts-and-localizations/rockman-series/rockman-x7/

>>8135701
What about the Nightmare Phenomena? We saw the Zero Virus began merging the real world and Cyberspace/Internet as the final stages of X5, and the Nightmare seems to be the Zero Virus unleashed globally full force. Reploids have dreams of Zero, shit stops making sense (lava raining in the north phone, purple magma, acid rain, whatever the fucking museum is).

>>8135713
The Nightmare was created by Gate, though. Mutual ingredient, different batch.

>>8135727
Gate and a certain scientist obsessed with Zero, that happens to actually understand Zero's inner workings and who nuts so hard he dies when Zero defeats High Max.

>>8135713
Well, Layer does say "virus," not "Zero Virus," so it could be that she was actually referring to the "Nightmare Virus" instead, which also used Zero's DNA. The problem is that this makes even less sense since Sigma was slightly dead at the time and had nothing to do with that.

>>8135771
I think it's clear they were referring to X5 and we should just roll what the Japanese fandom think:

>lol Capcom trying to retcon the bad era of Rockman X wwwwwwwww

>>8135756
>who nuts so hard he dies when Zero defeats High Max
That's Isoc. Gate was the only guy who managed to decrypt some of Zero's data, and Isoc knew like 99% of how it worked on a hunch.
>>8135701
>Sigma really didn't do anything with the Zero Virus in X5
He crashed the Eurasia just so he could fuse Zero's virus with his and the colony virus so he could awaken Zero's true purpose and [stupid fucking shonenshit plot goes here] as Wily wanted him to.

>>8135773
>Bad era
X1~X4 plot > X5~X8 plot to be honest

>>8135774
>That's Isoc
Well duh, I was just being cheeky. Plus, judging how Isoc speaks and how he's voiced by classic Wily's Japanese voice actor and he goes mad when he sees X, it's obvious Isoc was purely a second reploid body for Wily's AI like Serges was.

I understand Wily still being around is all dramatic and cool but making Dr. Light's capsules an AI that can be conversed with rather than a recording takes something away from the story. Maybe if they didn't dick around after X5 and used X6 to actually follow through with that story I'd feel differently. But as it stands X5 has all these great callbacks that go nowhere.

>>8135781
I'm sure they meant the actual games' quality by bad era. The Japanese fandom mocks the western fandom ever since the early 00's due the good score X6 had from IGN. "Oh, so western 'Mega Man' fans like shit" was their attitude basically.

>>8135785
Probably in X5, Light had to interact directly via backup AI rather than recordings due the virus and Wily being directly involved meaning he couldn't have a hands-off approach anymore.

>>8135785
I agree. It kinda looks like it's his soul in digital form but when he shows up at the end of X5 to somehow repair X who's missing 70% of his body in the middle of a wasteland is too much shlock.

>>8135803
Maybe the "force ghost" was a mobile repair pod that went dig X out?

>>8135773
Honestly, Occam's razor tells me this was just a typo that got out of hand, unless the website details really do exist (hint, hint).

Its not just fixing X, he has a full conversation with Zero. I much prefer the Jor-El style recordings than...the Jor-El style AI.

>>8135819
The Rockman X8 website is where that quote on JP Wikipedia came from it seems but holy fuck it doesn't seem the Wayback Machine archived much.

Besides, explicitly writting "In this Work, Vava was in X5 and X6 helping Sigma" and all that shit. Mega Man is pure dumb schlock and I love it.

>>8135821
It seems the capsule hologram works exactly like the Jor-El recordings, they don't know what the real Dr. Light didn't knew... or ommited to tell in the recordings (i.e. Wily).

>>8135559
Such as?

>>8135819
if the website said it then it'll be all over the place but right now even japanese fandom wikis deny any relationship between vava and dynamo

>>8135821
He also makes armor upgrades for Zero on the spot. X5 was such a hodgepodge, goddamn.

>>8135827
Well they stop being just recordings once Light starts showing signs of awareness. In the earlier X games it plays as if you're just watching a video message in hologram form like Princess Leia in Star Wars.

>>8135835
MM7 with the infamous "more than a robot" threat to Wily

>>8135852
X1 did took as much of Star Wars as it did from Casshern, so wouldn't be surprised if the Light hologram was simultaneously inspired by Leia's hologram and Casshern's mother's sentinent AI hologram.

>>8135835
>>8135853
Why no one acknowledges being replicas of X, the whole deal with Mega Man Legends removing all references to Maverick Hunters and Mavericks, calling the latter Aberrants, X6 in it's typos giving us the infamous "I hid myself when I tried to repair myself" and removing Scaravich's line about finding "others like X and Zero".

>>8135853
Frankly the way both the original and X series have gone in later entries it's made the distinction between the "free will" of reploids and the "laws of robotics" of OG robots moot. Mega Man 9 is no less than a willful rebellion over unfair treatment and mavericks in the X series now suffering from a virus that fucks with their faculties removes all elements of willful choice. "I'm more than a robot" fits right in.

>>8135864
I think the localization renaming is always lost in translation and back, I don't think the guys localizing Dash realized Irregular had been converted to Maverick before.

>>8135827
>The Rockman X8 website is where that quote on JP Wikipedia came from it seems but holy fuck it doesn't seem the Wayback Machine archived much.
I dunno, man/ma'am, I know that Japanese Wikipedia can be just as full'a shit as English Wikipedia. At the very least, you'd expect this to be repeated in a sourcebook.

>>8135881
And you'd be correct! Mega Man Legends' translation was outsourced to OceanGroup rather than Capcom who had not really worked with the IP prior other than maybe some voice talent), while the other games usually are translated in-house.

>>8135885
Time to dig through archives, but another day. It's too late.

>>8135876
Aren't all robot masters "conviced" by Wily to rebel when he fearmongers them about being scrapped at the end of their operational lives despite robot masters not really possessing free will?
Also the laws of robotics are overrated. Asimov didn't think it through.

>>8135903
>>8135876
The MM9 robots are working under the second law: Self-preservation. They thought Wily would help them in a way that wouldn't contradict you the first law... And then Wily re-programmed them.

>>8135853
>"I AM MORE THAT A ROBOT!"
>Mega Man says as he stops charging his buster and then Bass gives a spiel about hesitating.
I always though this was just a bluff, but it's pretty bad if they meant it seriously.

>>8135908
If thats the case then the laws are pointless because you can rationalize any behavior to fit within them. There's nothing the OG Mega Man characters do that suggest they don't have free will. Meanwhile the X series, very specifically about free will, has its major plot point about how a computer virus makes the robots go crazy. Its inherently nonsensical.

>>8135915
>I AM MORE THAN JUST A ROBOT!! DIE WILY!!
This line wasn't a bluff, this was legitimately added. This was during a time Capcom were afraid having 2 simultaneous Mega Man series would be too confusing to consumers and began doing shit like adding this like and simultaneously have X be called "Mega Man" in X2 and X3 to treat them as the same character, and that line probably was to linken it to Dr. Light's fears in Mega Man X1 about "If X were to break the first law of robotics..."

In Rockman 7, Rock puts away the Buster and just stays silent as he enters a logic loop after Wily reminds him he's not allowed to harm robots.

>>8135918
>There's nothing the OG Mega Man characters do that suggest they don't have free will.
See above. Let Rockman 7 be my evidence.

>Meanwhile the X series, very specifically about free will, has its major plot point about how a computer virus makes the robots go crazy. Its inherently nonsensical.
The problem is that Capcom can't write shit well, this isn't specific to Mega Man, Resident Evil, Breath of Fire and Ace Attorney all suffer greatly of "Capcom Writing". X1 was about free will, but it skips on the fact that the original term, Irregular, in Japan was used by the in-universe government explicitly to reffer to robots malfunctioning. "No, our robots with free will can't attack humans, if they do any of the sort they're malfunctioning". The first batch happened due defective electronic brains, but once that got sorted out it became a mix of self-prophecy with the virus causing more reploids to malfunction and Red Scare treating any reploid acting upon their free will in ways society don't like as Maverick behavor. Reploids are second-class citizens. MMZ3 follows upon this with Weil echoing this sentiment that robots shouldn't have free will, even with the virus deleted in the dramas, while in Legends, the final human government had clasified for Carbons as mavericks if they dared have too many kids.

>>8135918
>Its inherently nonsensical.
When you get a virus that gives you psychosis (those exist), is your human free will not jeopardized?

>>8135941
>In Rockman 7, Rock puts away the Buster
Nono, he still does that in Mega Man 7. It's a bad edit that clearly wasn't thought through enough.
Imagine being a kid in 1997 thinking MM8 was gonna address the MM7 ending at all?!

>>8135963
>Nono, he still does that in Mega Man 7
He puts it down yeah, I failed to explain myself, what I was getting at is how in the japanese version he simply puts it down and goes in the world's longest "................................"

While in the english version he says the more than a robot.

>Imagine
Yeah dude, I was a kid too, before I had all these sources, I thought Mega Man 2 The Power Fighters' Bass ending with Zero was a sign the climax was coming and Mega Man was going to make good on the threat.

Does Rock really have to say "Die Wily" when he's pointing a charged buster cannon at his face?

>>8135992
In the US version he does. It was the 90's, after all. Everything was extreme, bro.

>>8135963
they literally played around with the game's code just to inject that scene, shit's bizaare like for what purpose even?

>>8135996
I know he does, I mean does the addition of that line really change anything if Rock was ready to pop Wily like a watermelon even in the japanese version?