/vr/ - Retro Games

Only some people bitch about Woolsey (the same crowd that wants to crucify Vic and Working Designs, no doubt). Everybody with a functional brainstem agrees Chrono Cross was a step in the wrong direction (they just differ on whether that makes the game shit outright). Only one or two fags in a Cross thread ever say it's the best shit ever, and I bet they're the same ones who absolutely love Final Fantasy VIII.

Why are people bothered by every character having their own dialog style? A lot of jrpgs miss the mark on this.

In the Jap script they use made up sentence ending particles and pronouns to differentiate the characters. As I recall Harle inserts "li" and "nsu"
Look up yakuwarigo

>>8049619
Speech tics are less annoying in japanese since they don't mess up reading comprehension as much.
Modern Dragon Quest is the most famous culprit.

Look up yakuwarigo on google, first person pronouns and sentence endings are way more important to characterization than honorifics.

>chrono trigger one of my favorite games
>"oh boy a sequel!"
>plays chrono cross
>...
>...
>stops playing
i doubt i got even a third of the way through and remember almost nothing about it, just didn't keep my interest. i know the connection to CT was dubious from the start but why even have 'Chrono' in the title? just heightened the disappointment in what might otherwise be a decent jRPG.

>>8049619
i'm not bothered by individual dialog styles, but no human being in the history of the world has ever said "wantCHA" with emphasis on the 'cha.' this example is just bad.

>>8049656
Yfw you realize you are comparing their world to the history of your world.

Got a better argument?

>>8049656
So, if it were just "wantcha" would that be okay?

It seems a lot of people on the board have a problem with even that.

>>8049601
Fucking based.

As a lifelong Chrono cross hater, I'm in the midst of replaying it and it's better than I remember. The atmosphere and mood is very kino, it's just shallow because all the storylines are retarded and shitty. I'm replaying just to check out chronopolis again because last time I played I was too burnt out by the time I reached it to properly pay attention

So we will see. I still think the battle system is fucking garbage.

>>8049575
It’s easily one of Square’s biggest misfires. Naturally this is /vr/ so there will always be a handful of contrarians claiming it’s better than Trigger but that’s just for the sake of getting attention I think.

>>8050010
care to rephrase that in a way that makes sense to anyone but (You)?

>>8050030
yes, that would be infinitely better. it's as if the translator was trying to emphasize the idiolect / fact that he was allowed to not use formal english and just did a terrible job

>>8050059
>It’s easily one of Square’s biggest misfires
After the success of FFVII, it really felt like Square went mad and started developing a million of games at the same time. While on one hand that resulted in more innovative titles, it also made them drop their usual quality.

>>8050063
Uh..post a reaction pic showing the surprise on your face when you realize how stupid it is to compare the dialect of a fantasy world in relation to your world (the real world.)

Those types of things are soulful and usually make Japan's super dry sense of humor a lot more tolerable, I don't know what kind of stick in the mud gets mad about these kinds of things unless it's really, really severe.

>>8049601
Woolsey wasn't an unfunny attn whore like vic ireland tho

>>8050112
oh okay, so you're just a retard who can't tell the difference between a fantasy 'dialect' and incompetence in the real world and construes the latter as intentional. gotcha

Just don't play the fucking game. This was Square's golden age and this game is fucking stupid.

>>8050140
>Just don't play the fucking game
Maybe OP still finds some qualities about the game worth experiencing, dip shit.
Chrono Cross is great and is a part of Square's golden age.

>>8050125
Nothing in this game is presented as believable or plausible. A frozen flame? A walking lynx person? The ability to travel between after your death and before?

> incompetence in the real world and construes the latter as intentional.

So where is the incompetence? Just like everything else these are fictional people from fictional lands speaking with fictional accents/dialects snaps into place with everything else. Are you trying to relate the way they speak with those of us in the real world? That's what is retarded anon. Bitch about this games combat. deviant art story line, or whatever, but the dialog has more personality than most jrpgs, shoe horned or not.

>>8050193

Magic is fine. If the awful verbal tics were presented as symptoms of lingering brain damage that various characters had suffered during some worldwide magical disaster, they'd have made enough sense. Instead they're presented as normal elements of speech in that setting, which makes no sense because they are stupid and insane.

Maybe it was fine in Japanese though. I wouldn't know about that.

>>8050193
holy fuck you're autistic. this is not Tolkien writing dialogue for the Elves, they were clearly trying to capture colloquial North American dialogue because believe it or not, it's a game made by a Real company with a Real marketing team who decided to try and make the characters' speech more Real to the target audience. and you're trying to launder the fact that they did it badly by pointing out that the game is fictional, as if every fucking game isn't. you're either the biggest Chrono Cross simp in the world or more likely just a mental pleb who literally can't separate fact from fiction.

>>8050124
Vic the person should be separated from the games he and his company worked on. The dude himself absolutely has some major personality flaws but I'd be a fucking liar if I said I didn't thoroughly enjoy the Lunar games. His support of including actually nice and worthwhile stuff with premium or pre-order versions of the games was pretty neat and ahead of its time (in the West, at least).

>>8049601
FF8 is one of the worst games ive ever completed
CC is the best PS1 JRPG
where is your god now?

I have no interest in reading Harry potter style fan-fiction shit that amateur "fan translators" defecate and vomit out for public consumption. Who do they think they are translating Suikoden or Persona? Idiots! Get your hands off good games!
Just because you are bilingual doesn't give you the right or the skill to butcher someone else's work of art. Fan translators should literally be fined and jailed for not only copyright infringement but for producing awful fucking shit that only brain dead illiterate kids would find appealing. Get your hands off of Chrono Cross, Breath of Fire and Final Fantasy you useless estrogenated mindless soulless waste of human genes.

>>8050270
...And? You're perfectly entitled to your (wrong) opinion.

>>8050270
FF8 may be crap
but PSX is either Salary Molephile or Zeno Beers

>>8050140
>toupooh fag talking about CC
Stick to your shitty arcade-wannabe trash imo. Chrono Cross is epic even if it has some minor flaws.

>>8050274
This has to be pasta. No one on 4chan believes this strongly in anything anymore.

>>8050240
>colloquial
What about this is colloquial? It's the complete opposite. Everyone from each part of the game world speaks differently. It's supposed to be like talking to other kinds of people so you could not be further from the truth. Have you played Chrono Cross before? lol

>>8050213
The only one I can think of that sounds insane is Harle who says "ze" and shit or poshul who talks like a deviant art user with a lisp. The rest of them just speak like they are, again, from different continents/islands/etc.

>>8050307
Wrong!
Unlike talentless fan-translators I created that post all by myself, without mutilating and blaspheming pre-existing content. They deserve only contempt imo.

>>8049575
Main story is horrible, gameplay is two step backwards from trigger. Music and graphics are comfy though.

>>8050326
...Or you could just have high-quality bait. That works too, I guess.

>>8050329
>comparing anything to based CT
Oops, you made a big oopsie. CT is probably too 5 best games ever made so...uhh yeah...good luck

>>8050310
>Everyone from each part of the game world speaks differently.
that only works when you're not butchering a real-life dialect that people speak every day. it needs to be sufficiently different and not look like a mistake, as with the "wantCHA" example. it doesn't matter if it's intentional, it simply strikes the eye and ear as wrong. that's not good dialogue writing.

>>8050348
>that's not good dialogue writing.
That's because it wasn't actually "written", per se.....

>>8050358
sooo, it was divined from an oracle bone? the translators did a bad job, not the writers. happy you pedantic bastard?

>>8050368
No, I mean they literally used an accent mangler on the text to get the final product that shows in-game. None of that garbage laced throughout was done by hand. They were so fucking proud of themselves for doing this there's text about it in the hidden dev room.

>>8050372
well, that explains a lot. i learned something new today.

>>8049601
Vic Ireland and his team was actually okay for their first few games. Some of the difficulty changes were maybe a little much, but generally some of that stuff, especially for the first Lunar on SEGA CD was decent and welcome as that game with Japanese difficulty is just too easy, and the dialogue in that has some character, while generally sticking to the world and the sort of things people said at the time.

Popful Mail has a real 90s charm to it, and it's so shockingly different from almost any Japanese game out there, while still being a Japanese game, it's really refreshing.

But then Lunar 2 goes a little too far with the difficulty stuff, like the cost to save, and by the time you get to Magical Knight Ray Earth, the script is so full of innuendo, it just takes you right out of the game, line you're playing Leisure Suit Larry or something (which is fine, but this ain't that game).

People just encouraged him too much, and he went too far. He could probably actually have a decent reputations n today if he didn't get so full of himself.

>>8050257
>gating content behind pre-order gambling
>neat
No, fuck off.

>>8050458
What in the world are you talking about? Look, if a little cloth map of the world of Lunar and some paper stand-up dolls count as game "content" these days then I very much doubt you and I would agree on anything at all really.

>>8050502
Exploiting fomo is a predatory, anti-consumer practice. End of story.

>>8050526
The FOMO is all in your head, Anon. Born of a culture that looks at something and immediately thinks "IF IT EXISTS, THEN I *MUST* HAVE IT!". I don't even care about the omaki for the Lunar games, I just thought it was a nice touch for those that were big fans.

>>8049656
>why even have 'Chrono' in the title?
If you'd bothered to play it, you'd know. If you recall, there was a certain character whose fate was left unresolved in Trigger and Cross is necessarily all about resolving it.

The biggest problem with Cross is they didn't use Toriyama's artwork so it doesn't even look like it's part of the same series. Look at the character art for Marcy, I'm not even sure she's supposed to be human. She looks like a mutant doll. Whatever hack they got to draw this should be excommunicated from the industry.

>>8050568
Except Radical Dreamers did that so much better.

>>8050302
I never said I liked 2hu. It's just a stupid picture. Shows how stupid radical dreamer fans are. I played the game, I beat it, it's bad.

>>8050547
>desperately white knighting an awful, predatory studio that is most known for completely mangling games in a desperate attempt to fuck over rentals
Eat shit and don't @ me, bootlicker.

>>8050578
In fact yes radical dreamers is all around much better even the identical battle music sounds less grating on snes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fQGVlceiGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWRZxbU_-xQ

>>8050193
>A frozen flame? A walking lynx person? The ability to travel between after your death and before?
I'm not going to sit here and defend this game because it IS shit, but all those things you mentioned were explained in the game, so at least they did make some effort to try to make it coherent. The problem is the explanations are just stupid anyway.

>>8050585
I have @'d you. Eat shit.

Cross is great. I get people don't like the throwaway characters, but just don't use them. Run Kid, Glen, Karsh, Zoah, Norris, Radius the whole game.

It had an amazing score, fantastic art style, branching story line that wouldn't become a thing until a decade later, and good main plot. Thematically, it's all about how memory makes you who you are and how choices and branches in life set you on paths that shape your identity. Stuff like the poem book, Mojo, etc.

Battle system is meh but I like it more than mainline FFs where MP is scarce so you basically just do basic attacks except for bosses for the first half of the game. Too many unavoidable fights though.

I wouldn't call it a misfire. Sold a ton of copies and is the highest critically ranked jrpg of the entire generation. It filters people because the plot is too complex and the tone is meloncholy.

Plus, Kid is best girl. Too bad you never actually met her... guess you'll grow up a fisher and marry Lenna, just another forking path. The Borges of games.

Chrono Trigger had unique enemies and characters with all the different races of Mystics. Cross had generic fantasy ones like gnomes, faeries, mermaids, and dragons. It's like they put the bare minimum of effort into world building.

>>8050615
I bet you think R = U is a really clever fan theory, too.

>>8050568
see >>8050571
a proper sequel is more than just a 'certain character' tie-in, in presentation and gameplay CC it had very little in common with CT other than being a Square jRPG. even the tie-in i don't really buy, because even without having completed it, there was nothing about the story that seemed in any way related to CT. seems like a contrived and shoe-horned bit of lore that's just evoked at the end of each respective game to try and somehow tie them together, an afterthought. any mediocre writer can tie two unrelated IPs together in a plausible but obviously contrived manner. whether or not the CC-CT connection is stronger _on paper_ i don't care about; it simply did not feel like a sequel while playing it, and didn't intrigue me enough to figure out whatever that connection between the two was supposed to be.

>>8050615
Damn, seeing these screens again... such a beautiful game.

>>8050585
in what world is that post "desperately white knighting" anything
you're the one getting heated in your replies

>>8050571

>>8050761
I doubt Toriyama drew that. It looks like an intern did it for some magazine advertisement since the real guy was too busy with doing real art.

>>8050571
>Whatever hack they got to draw this should be excommunicated from the industry.
I cannot stand people who say this shit. Do you even know that Nobuteru fucking Yuki, the guy who drew for Records of the Lodoss War designed for Chrono Cross? His style is probably one of the most iconic of the 90s, and his work for Cross is just as charming as it is for something like Escaflowne, shut up you tasteless bitch.

>>8050623
Don't know what that is.

The games weakness is tonal inconsistency and a ok but not particularly exciting battle system. It's only the latter that I care about really and it mostly comes from meme/joke characters, which thankfully, you can largely avoid and easily miss.

I also think it gets hate for the story because it isn't conventional, and not a grand fairy tale like CT or even FF games. It's more complex and character focused and I liked that.

People get filtered. Like Hegel or Neon Genesis Evangelion, Chrono Cross takes years of background study.

>>8050621
Did we play the same game?

>>8051528
lol my thoughts too, Cross has huge enemy variety.

>>8051531
only fight I lost in the game fuck miguel

>>8051531
What a terrible party choice. Pretty sure if you go all black this fight is unbeatable.

>>8051189
>too busy with doing real art.
More like "getting drunk and waking up in his bathtub" from what I understand.

>>8051521
Yeah, whatever problems the game has, it ain't the graphics.

>>8050626
>there was nothing about the story that seemed in any way related to CT

except uhh like everything Lucca, Schala and Balthazar did, YIKES.

>>8051521
Whoever the fuck that guy his, his Marcy drawing sucks dicks. It looks like something posted on deviantArt by a 9 year old. Also his coloring sucks too.

what are you smoking, that looks great, unlike the flat sameface shit Toriyama shits out since 50 years

>>8049575
>script full of pop culture references

I don't remember this

>>8053391
I think Mickey or whatever the idol guy's name was had some. It's been years since I last played it.

>>8052370
you've not understood my critique. i repeat, if the game doesn't carry on the essentials of what made the first one great, you've already lost me, it doesn't matter how many tangential references to CT you throw in. that doesn't mean making the same game over again but making it feel like it necessarily follows from the first, especially the art-style. but there was nothing about CC that felt like it was _essentially_ connected to CT, in plot, gameplay, graphics, setting, etc. it felt more like a generic Square game with some CT references slapped on. again, it needs more than just an "on-paper" connection. and it just wasn't as fun or compelling or original as CT was for me, so ultimately i didn't even care about how it supposedly related to its predecessor. obviously that's subjective, but i'm not alone. its relative lack of popularity speaks for itself. maybe it's a decent game but it's a lackluster CT sequel.

>>8053445
Square seemed averse to copying anything in sequels in that era. Parasite Eve 2 was different from the first and had a new art style. Legend of Mana was a different type of Mana game FF7, 8, 9 all different. I think the only similar styles were the Saga games .

>>8053445
imagine if FF fanboys wanted the same carbon copy sequels, laff. Cross is a straight up improvement in every aspect. Music, art, story, gameplay, you name it. It's the best sequel a game can have, in that it presents a new perspective instead of being a lukewarm rehash with no value.

Kato is a hack and never should've been given carte blanche over the series.

>>8053627
>Cross is a straight up improvement in every aspect
if you mean it's a soulless graphical 'update' with zero cultural clout or reason for being, sure. lol it's fine if you like the game but it shares so little of CT's DNA and charm that it's apples and oranges. you can assert it's better all you want and i'll assert otherwise, and the copies sold would agree with me. and it's not the "best sequel a game can have" because it's a sequel in name only, a marketing scheme. AGAIN, doesn't mean it's a bad game, but it's a bad 'sequel' to CT.
>instead of being a lukewarm rehash with no value.
nice dichotomy you set up, that's the only other option aside from "tangentially related," isn't it?

>>8049575
As a fan of Chrono Trigger, I'd say CC does a much better job at everything in every respect. It's nice games finally got out of the medieval era and were able to contain plots as deep and meaningful as CC's. It's a shame the old FF games were marred by hardware limitations.

>>8053686
>a marketing scheme
Literally this. I remember when The GIA was posting early pre-release screenshots of it and it showed Glenn, a knight, name prominently displayed, obviously misleading everyone to believe he was actually Frog. I didn't know one person who thought he WASN'T Frog. Then you play the game and find out he has no connection anyway. It was a huge bait and switch to lure CT fans into buying the game.

I did at one point think some Chrono Trigger fans have some valid points of criticism towards Cross but this thread is starting to show that isn't really the cast.

>>8049601
>Woolsey
What is that
>Vic
Who is that
>Working Designs
Who are they

Is this a Chrono Cross thread?

>>8053715
The guy wanted to make a real CT sequel, but Square wouldn't let him, so we got Xenogears.

Ehhhh I guess.

>>8053346
toriyamas no slouch, and i like his art, but he has absolutely no variety
literally every game, manga and anime hes ever worked on looks exactly the fucking same. to the point where its literally confusing to discern which characters go to what media

the art direction and the music direction is the thing that CC did better in every way over CT. the rest is up for debate.
but cross is one of the most gorgeous games on the system, visually
the fact that we never got another game, in any series, with its level of art is a shame

if you want another game with toriyamas art, youll never have to look far. just go play any dragon quest or DQ spinoff. theres only like a hundred of them

The music is trash in this game. Not a single good or memorable song. Plenty of shitty and annoying ones though.

>>8054272
The music is it's only redeeming feature. I get what you are saying though since the music is more subtle, but trust me, it's almost as good as CT.

THE REST OF THE GAME IS ASS. Characters are all shit. Plot is fucking trash. Gameplay is shit. It's not even worth setting up the elements on your own the game is so shitty. Literally not a single memorizing plotpoint, and the story is so loosely connected it's useless
while in CT every major plotpoint was highly kino and interconnected.

Fuck Chrono cross and anyone who likes it. It's fucking garbage and the true beginning of the end for SQUARESOFT. Blows my mind that people think this shallow as shit pointless game has any fans.

>>8053707
You never played the game.

Name five remotely interesting, deep, or meaningful plotpoints. You can't. You probably can't even recall the plot while I can literally narrate CT off the top of my head.

>>8054272
I know you are too stubborn/lazy to listen to any of these, but I will point out how many instances you are especially wrong

https://youtu.be/Ndm5KF-oMeo wrong

https://youtu.be/nP2OlOQavpA wrong

https://youtu.be/QpwE91gTQ6g wrong

https://youtu.be/J46RY4PU8a8 very fucking wrong

https://youtu.be/YoEMaWrQBQM wrong

>>8049601
>Only one or two fags in a Cross thread ever say it's the best shit ever, and I bet they're the same ones who absolutely love Final Fantasy VIII.


I feel personally attacked right now. The localization in both were shit though.

>>8049656
>why even have 'Chrono' in the title?


Because it's about what happened to schala. Kid, the character on the cd case and intro is the spawn of Schala. She can do that because her and Lavos merged and Lavos can make spawns. Lucca from Trigger raised her. thewhole story was conceived with the idea that they wanted to do something with schala. There's a lot more connections, but this is the biggest one.

>>8054447
Why would you assume anyone wants to talk to someone who is already maximum asshurt...

>>8051521
My nigga.

>>8054447
I. It's a direct sequel to a great game that calls back to the first. It's subversion.

II. Dragons. Might seem like a minor point, but dragons and what they represent in terms of literary analysis is extremely important to this plot. I won't spoil it for new users.

III. Numerous fan theories. This is what I like to call a "sandbox" plot (my theory) that allows a game, like this or FFVII, or even FFVIII, to be an interpretive experienc.e

IV. Multiple characters brought back, such as Magus.

V. The plot has a number of relevant themes, even today, including identity which I personally don't struggle with but my girlfriend does and if I can help her in any way, it's important to me.

>>8054495
>everyone bitches about this not being a chrono game
>anon explains how it is
>not a single reponse
why are anons like this?

I played ff8 in 1999 and it is probably my favorite single player game of all time. I played cross around 2000 or 2001 without playing trigger and loved it :)

>>8054495
Only because of retcons.

>>8054669
because it's been explained a dozen times how a slew of hamfisted tie-ins doesn't a coherent sequel make. Schala is a plot-device character who only Magus stans claim to care about, and it was never even suggested that Lavos could 'spawn' people in CT, yet we're supposed to base our investment on Kid and this world that otherwise has no resonance with CT? it's all just a weak premise to base a sequel on when you have this whole mainline cast of characters players know and love, as well as a distinct style of gameplay and art direction which could have been adapted and built upon in a 3D format, but instead felt alien, like a Final Fantasy game.

off the complete top of my head, a more interesting plot would've been that Chrono and Marle have a son, and it somehow Triggers a tunnel through time, and this Chrono Jr. is visited by a time traveler from a completely different timeline, who tells them of the danger he, and perhaps they, face. knowing what his parents went through, he agrees to go with them to try and help. there he encounters a totally different world, but one that perhaps overlaps with his own in unexpected ways, recalling past characters and places without them being the same, and allowing for totally different lands, enemies, and plotlines.

in other words, something that more strongly feels connected to its predecessor and expands upon it. not an entirely different game wearing a sash that says "LEGIT CHRONO" because Lucca babysits a spawn of Lavos literally called 'Kid'

>>8049575
....what pop culture references?

>>8049601
Nobody bitches about Woolsey, they bitch about his dumb fanboys that treat his work like gospel rather than admitting that "good for it time" does not mean "good by today's standards".

>>8049601
I would honestly rather play FF8 than CC any day. At least FF8's characters actually feel like real characters.

>>8054473
Not posting the best tune.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFiSb9SBOW0

I don't think anyone will deny that the attempt to have 45 unique playable characters was a failed experiment. Especially with a story that couldn't care less about anyone but a tight core of 6 or 7. It wasn't like the Suikoden series where you were traversing across city states winning the hearts of people and accumulating an army. The 45 playable characters were in no way integral and were entirely tag-along.

But if you ignore that and just stick to a couple of characters you like, it's not that bad. Nowhere near justifying it as a sequel to Trigger, but compared to other non-Final Fantasy Squaresoft RPGs, pretty decent, better than average. And one of the best soundtracks in video games.

After meditating on this game I realized that the problem with the game is that everything interesting about it plot wise is ancillary. It's like those "world building" fps games where you can just beat the game without reading all those side notes and data tablets that are supposed to fill in the lore

When you actually spend hours deciphering the lore or reading about it online the story is actually mezmerising (as pathetic and unforgivable as what they did with Porre and Guardia is).

The game is REALLY about Balthazar. He is basically someone trying to play God and the game reflects all the consequences of that. The whole thing about Fate and the Dragons and Lynx and Harley just being vectors for these two entities creates a neat little macro / micro duality to the story. Sorry to sound like a faggot it's the best way I can express the feeling. Everything you so in the game is just pawn moves in what is a very macro world. Too bad the game is so shit that 95% of players never even recognize this broader narrative going on.

If a CT fan asked me if they should play it, I would tell them no. Go read about the lore on gamefaqs and reddit. If still compelled then play it even though everything is spoiled. Also I really love Harle and it's so sad her story.

>>8056584
To compare, in CT, every move you make is highly significant and you KNOW IT. You are clearly the main engine of this world narrative of you vs Lavos. You interact with all the most important people in all the most crucial events and it's pretty straightforward what the overarching story is as you play it.

In Chrono cross..? Well you pretty much run blind on everything in Disc 1, and I doubt more than 5% of players even start to decipher wtf is going on through Disc 2. For most players it just becomes this laundry list of little chores to do with virtually zero idea of why or what any of it means. And that is the games fault.

>>8053391
maybe confusing it with Chrono Trigger?

>>8053668
>it was Kato's idea to kill off the main protagonist 70% of the way into the game, and to keep him dead.
>his idea was downvoted but he still managed to get it into the game, just made it player's choice on whether or not to bring him back.

guy's a big proponent of 'actions having consequences', seems to affirm everything he does in regards to Chrono.

>>8056831
I don't know about the other two, but Slash is a pretty solid guitarist

>>8056854
>downvoted
fuck off

>>8056854
kato sounds like a faggot. like he thinks these basic concepts make the game "deep" rather than the actual execution and narrative surrounding such idea

>>8056895
>Literally contributed immensely to the quality of the story of the game that fans actually really like
>Still find arbitrary ways to call him a hack and dislike everything he did
It's so fucking tiring at this point, I wish Trigger fans would just admit they're not open minded to literally anything involving this man, he could make the greatest game of all time and Trigger fans would find ways to call it pseud crap. Just fuck off already.

>>8056584
It's basically the Matrix and Belthasar is the Architect. It's really too much power for one man to have and it's implausible he could control events down to the most minute detail over a 10,000 year period. Even with those FATE pyramids coaxing people to make the "right" (his desired) decisions there's no way he could have planned all that out and it would take just one or two people disregarding the advice to screw up the whole plan and leave the islands and make their existence known. It's really absurd for a story, even by JRPG standards.

>>8057440
Nice. I do like how they introduced the hubris angle on him since the original gurus were so milquetoast. Course the execution stunk

>>8056854
Meanwhile in Cross actions have no consequences. Want to let Kid die of venom poisoning? Too bad, someone else saves her life for you. The only decisions you get is if you want to recruit Shit Character A or Shit Character B.

>>8056831
i like the localized names waaaay better than the condiment-based names

>>8049619
The worst accent in Chrono Cross is definately the CHA family, but I have to give a nod to mermaid who had all vowels replaced with vowels with umlauts. Mostly for the translation team not understanding what umlauts actually do.

>>8057521
How do you even pronounce that differently from normal not dotted vowels? I just assumed she spoken with a German accent.

>>8057521
Those are to show water splash while she talk

I'll defend chrono cross till I die, but I can admit the music and graphics do a lot of heavy lifting. While I think the plot is great it has a lot of nonsense parts that have little to do with the main plot.

The battle system while a little two slow for its own good is still one of my favorite systems.

>>8057892
I love the risk/reward that just using your normal attack can bring in this game, especially since hitting a 3 on the first try leads to two more easy 3s

>>8057912
Yeah, love the options you have and how much freedom you have on longer boss fights for setting up big power moves. Only down side is regular encounters are a little to long.

It's my favorite jrpg system outside of stuff like the hex system in later wild arm games and stuff like that were you can move around

The battle system is cool, it's just setting up each character's magic grid is a huge pain in the ass. Yeah you can auto config it but it's not optimal so it's really worth doing it yourself. Just sucks to spend 20 minutes getting it done for your team just to have to do it again for the next set of characters that inevitably comes along 10 minutes later.

>>8058259
It's absurdly annoying especially if you want to try it different chars on a certain boss. I just auto allocate and then modify as needed from there.

DON'T BEEBA FRAID

well, i just got to the part where harle leaves the party. there goes any motivation to continue playing. i hate how the game gives you the option to choose her over the world, and then she just says "lmao" and still leaves. good job you dumb fuck game creators.

and did you know if you want to keep her in the party legitimately, you have to go through THREE PLAY THROUGHS? (aka 2 newgame+) lmao this fucking game really has the personality of a bitch

>>8049575
Mon OP is a phaguette

>>8054447
Meanwhile OP said that it's full of pop culture references which no one remembers being the case at all.

>>8058981
>which weebs don't get because they do nothing but watch anime and play videogames

>>8058965
Why did they make her talk like a Brit slag? She should've been a cute waifu.

>>8059042
Was it bong or aus?

>>8058990
Name them then. This shit came out in like 98 or 99. Barely anyone was a weeb at that time. Only anime I ever saw at that point was DBZ.

>FULL of pop culture references
go ahead, should be easy

>>8050270
Junctioning’s not that hard anon, hope your brain stem develops one day

>>8059059
lot's of "oi's" in her dialogue... I'm leaning towards aus.

the japanese script is 10000 times better
but the gameplay and messed up story are still the same. I loved the setting, music and graphics, boss battles are really fun but regular ones feel like a chore to play through. the story is also full of holes and kind of a mess. they hype up the reptiles and then there's none since they were all already extinct, I wanted to see the chrono trigger reptiles again but in 3d this time

>>8059221
FFVIII is fuck awful m8. no one who could read was confused by anything
>draw magic
>stats go up
its the rest of FFVIII thats the issue
the fact that theres a bunch of people who enjoy that drivel, and yet half the people ITT have never even played chrono cross, yet still hate it, is totally confounding

>>8059273
>I loved the setting, music and graphics, boss battles are really fun but regular ones feel like a chore to play through
you know you can skip 90% of the battles and it wont matter, no? boss battles are the only ones that level you up

>>8058392
based and beebapilled

>>8059393
yes I know but there's still a bunch of mandatory fights, or enemies that move so fast on screen that you can't dodge them

>>8059395
you can skip more than you cant ime
the only time i really bother is to get some materials for new weapons

>>8054572
>IV. Multiple characters brought back, SUCH AS MAGUS.

>>8059273
This. I'm sure it was ZEALITY or some fucker spreading the rumor that the English script clarified a few points that the Japanese script neglected but really, that's bullshit. Game needs an honest Slattery-style retranslation.

>>8050050

Chronopolis was CT-tier kino, felt wasted in such a piece of shit game

>>8049575
>script full of pop culture references
Are there?
>>8049619
Some of them are REALLY retarded but it didn't bother me really.

>>8050050
What makes Cross shit mostly doesn't happen until near end game anyways
>>8055502
Not saying that CC's characters were better (literally one of if not the worst cases of cast bloat ever) but FF8's characters aside from Squall and whatever the main bitches' name was basically have no character beyond 'hot dogs' 'milfy teacher' , 'has a cowboy hat' and 'trains'

>>8054669
Because >>8050568 already did that.

>>8050568
Nobody actually gave a fuck about Schala and she certainly didn't need a full game to '''save her'''. And that's ignoring that saving her is only relevant in the last like 10 mins anyways and was clearly shoe horned in to make a more direct connection when the whole time clash thing that was causing aborted timelines to basically shit themselves and wind up all over the place was more interesting anyways.

>>8059858
Good thing it's not in a piece of shit game but it is in a masterpiece.

>>8059890
Completely flat argument that means nothing.

>>8059892
>finale is to save her
>she isn't saved by the one guy who's life goal is to save her
>saved by a bunch of nobodies who don't know who she is nor cares

award winning writing

>>8060637
>saving her puts her in present day Shibuya, Japan instead of returning her to her time.

>>8053382
My party in Chrono Cross was Serge (because you can't remove him), Fargo (because need a thief), and Janice because she was my waifu and she didn't have any wacky speech impediment.

>>8059892
>Nobody actually gave a fuck about Schala
...You're kidding, right? Chrono Trigger always had "save Schala" rumors back in the day, just like Final Fantasy had General Leo and Aeris rumors. Failing that, she was usually the subject of fanfiction. Clearly enough sizable portion of fans wanted to save her and thought it was a loose end. It's just a shame that Radical Dreamers did it way better than Chrono Cross. At least Chrono Cross implied that Radical Dreamers takes place in a third reality, so the events still seem to take place somewhere (probably the Crono stays dead timeline).

>>8060914
>..You're kidding, right?
No. The majority of people didn't care about her or at the very least only cared because they wanted Magus to save her.
And no, people pretending she was a secret character back then isn't special and unique

>>8059892
>>8060920
I get it. You missed out.

>>8060979
And I get it, you got too far into internet fanbases and thought most people actually gave a shit about her

>>8061004
>most people
source: anon's anus

>>8061034
That bitch!

>>8060914
Sorry it's true people didn't really give a fuck about schala. Either the point is moot because it's obvious the schala angle was shoehorned in just to tie in with CT. the game clearly is about stopping the timedevourer, not saving schala.

As someone who has a deep appreciation for the chronopolis, dinopolis, timedevourer concepts, this game really is fucking trash. The way the game treats Chrono, marle, Lucca, Dalton, robo, and the reptites is beyond reprehensible. Like they didn't even bother to learn about the original characters or plot.

The ghost children are actually a commentary on butthurt stuck in the past Trigger fanboys

>>8061051
thanks for reminding me how many boners this game gave me as a lad.

>>8061101
Speaking of the ghost children, here's something I don't understand that doesn't seem to be talked about enough: one of them says that they "no longer exist in this time line" - does that mean they're still alive and well in the other time line?

>>8061081
More the author bitching that people aren't going to care about his shitty attempt to be deep.

>>8061195
I think part of why I hate this game is the CT characters went from reflecting the optimistic and gungho 90s to the depression and hopelessness of the 2000s onward

>>8061573
Like all they do is bitch and complain at you for fucking things up. You really see the original cast doing some shit like that rather than trying to solve the problem together or cheering you on? It's bitter and narcissistic writing.

>>8061195
Probably. The ghosts do only appear in one timeline and not the other. Most people who complain that the CT characters were all killed don't realize this so they're probably still alive. The ending however is ambiguous about what happens to both timelines so it's possible one overwrites the other killing them all anyway lulz

>>8061072
>Sorry it's true people didn't really give a fuck about schala.

revisionism at work
you sound like those idiots who insist no one called it the PSX despite all the evidence to the contrary

how the fuck would you even know, you have no point of reference you were sucking on pacifiers

>>8063136
I'm sorry you had her as waifu but he's right. Outside of a few handful of people no one fucking cares about her. Shes a nothing character and the only reason we're ever given TO care about it because of her connection to Magus who we do actually care about.
CC then didn't bother to actually include him in the game in a real meaningful way (and no, retconning him in as a different optional character later on doesn't count and anyways they made it completely optional that you'll ever see him and he doesn't know who he or Schala is anyways at that point) so GG CC you truly suck

>>8050761
DQ8 Hero will always be my favorite. This comfy fucker is just about prepared to go on a Dragon Quest™.

Schala was always a meme. You can probably go back and read the GameFAQs archives of people talking about ways to rescue Schala and recruit her as a party member. It's just some people didn't recognize those were jokes and took it seriously to mean she had a fanbase.

>>8063136

>>8061081
Holy based

>>8061195
>>8061728
Ending's weird, Schala says that time has been "unified" yet a lot of party members are acting like they're going back to their original worlds. Schala was probably being figurative in her speech since Serge clearly didn't get his memories wiped and she just meant it more like he'd forget what happened as if it were a dream (before CTDS missed the point in the extra ending). If we assume the timelines really were merged to be ideal, though, then Lucca and Prometheus' deaths were most likely undone due to being most involved with FATE/Lynx. Crono and Marle are harder to pinpoint, but I imagine Chrono Break would've gone more into Porre/Dalton and them. There's also the question of what exactly the ghost children ARE - they're obviously not ordinary ghosts, so did Lynx/Dalton or whomever do something special to "create" them?

>>8065986
The problem with a merged timeline is some characters are dead in one and not in the other, or like Van, is rich in one, poor in the other, so who gets to decide which one overwrites the other? Schala shouldn't have the power of God because either way one of those Vans is going to die since both can't exist. The whole ending is unhappy no matter how you look at it.

This is probably the worst thread I've ever seen on this board. Mother of Christ are you all 12?

>>8066568
>so who gets to decide which one overwrites the other?
Serge. He's the Arbiter of Time, the one the Frozen Flame has chosen. He's the only active force in both worlds, and has borne witness to every life in El Nido and how they lives split in different directions.

It's not a conscious choice though, Schala/the Frozen Flame/ the universe probably mends together the two timelines without his direct input. But whatever he (and by that I mean you the player) feels is the best outcome for each character will probably be what gets priority. Perhaps even a blend of the two, that way Orlha and Tia can exist together in the unified timeline.

>>8067694
What I didn't like about it is the game implies the timeline splitting was unnatural or a bad thing, when in Chronopolis it is clear there are multiple other timelines that exist, maybe infinite, so it's just a natural thing that doesn't need to be "fixed".

>>8067764
It WAS unnatural. Lynx was the cause for Serge's death via drowning and a time-traveling Kid saved him, creating the Home World timeline to splinter off. Serge being alive fucked around with FATE's plans and induced all kinds of changes.

>>8056584
>Also I really love Harle and it's so sad her story.
I really liked Tsukuyomi and was pretty upset with what they did to her

>>8070137
Same. And the game fucking assumes I like that bitch Kid? That scene in Chronopolis when you finally reunite with Kid just made me want to kill her. Harle saved this game and is the closest thing to a waifu since Tifa

>>8070165
I was pretty indifferent towards Kid from what I remember. I didn't dislike her, but I was far less upset when Lynx stabbed her than everything that happened with Tsukuyomi.

>>8049575
>those shitty accents
the original japanese was even worse because it was the stupid fucking thing where they insert a word or sound at the end of the sentence
the accent system is actually incredible; the localization team coded an automatic accent changer because it was more efficient than having each variation separately on the disc

>>8070165
>Hates Kid
>Likes Harle

It's gonna bake your noodle when you find out they were the same person.

>>8071613
No because one doesn't talk like a degenerate hood rat

>>8071439
This is why I dont get people who bitch about western translations. Imagine Vagrant story with the matter of fact Japanese dialogue.

>>8049601
Chrono Cross had some very interesting ideas that would have worked better if it didn't directly try and tie itself in the original game.

It is incredibly atmospheric and has some incredible production behind it, and some good story and plot, but it carries itself very sluggishly and falls flat too often. There was also no need to have so many characters either. If it had a smaller cast and kept the Magus arc in the game, it would've been a solid 10/10.

Not to mention just outright killing the original team of CT is not a good luck, and the game is almost spiteful in the way it talks about the original, to the point it feels like there was some kind of animosity against the staff.

>>8071938
>to the point it feels like there was some kind of animosity against the staff.

I think I read there was. Something like Kato wanted to tell his own new story but Square forced him to write a CT sequel against his desires.

>>8061081
The game was made by a butthurt guy, see
>>8072221
That explains a lot. Chrono Cross is like what you'd get if Christopher Nolan was forced to turn his idea for Tenet into Back to the Future 4. The twist would be the algorithm was made out of Doc Brown's time train. It's briefly implied that Doc and his new family are dead, and so is Marty.
>hurr it's a well thought out sequel

>>8071613
they arent. its true they are believed to be created from the same DNA aka Schala, because Kid is created from Schala and it is assumed that Dinopolis grabbed the nearest DNA possible when they had a chance to create a human representative which also was Schala. But no they couldn't be further from being the same person.

Harle is an agent for the Dragons as created from Dinopolis to exploit the vulnerability created by Serge. Kid was created to be Schala's agent.

>>8071938
SPITE is definitely the best way to describe how Chrono Cross treats Chrono Trigger. Japanese devs tend to have this shit cause they are so bitter at their hard work lives, see Satoshi post-Melee

The fact that the game can produce so much varied and detailed analysis of the plot 20 years later shows its greatness.

There just isn't much to say about the story of CT or FF7 or FF6, or 99% of games. They are normally YA level, but can have some good art and motifs. CC will be the game talked about three centuries from now as the shining gem in the early development of the medium.

>>8072467
CC is talked about so much because of how innane and nonsensical it is as a (supposed) direct followup to CT.

Ever notice that almost nobody talks about its story, religion or ideas but entirely its infodump at the end and its killing of the cast?

Its talked about so much because of how sloppy the writing is while everyone is always praising its art and music.
Arguably, while FF8 is inferior in dialogue quality, its concept and gameplay is far more interesting and it doesn't pretend its some baby's first philosophical essay.

>>8049601
I have no problem with Woolsey. He did his job with limited time, resources, and tools available to him. But fuck all you fawning cocksuckers who think his erroneous work is somehow the peak of localizations. Suck my fuckin cock

>>8071439
>the accent system is actually incredible
It was still stupid. At least the Japanese versions were legible - filtering the whole dialog box in an unrelated accent just makes it hard to read. Surely they could have thought of something better or at least toned it down if they were committed to it.

>>8072287
All criticism of Cross stems from Trigger fanboys butthurt over the dead Trigger cast, which is especially hilarious because it shows they did not even understand the basic premise of the game.

Cross as a concept is interesting, but it being related to Trigger as a sequel is pretty underwhelming.
Everything in relation to Trigger boils down to pic. related.

>>8050117
Exactly
It becomes obnoxious when the jokes are replacing completely different dialogue or are just a commercial catchphrase word for word via Lunar
Otherwise half the jokes would either be flat or be completely lost in translation due to the translated words not carrying over the wordplay.

>>8073687
Not to mention it doesn't even make sense to have this many accents on a tiny island chain where the largest island you could walk across it in an hour IRL.

>>8074541
You do realize it's comprised entirely of relatively recent immigrants right?

>>8073687
>filtering the whole dialog box in an unrelated accent just makes it hard to read.
god, all you people are proving with these points is that you've never once interacted with Scottish people or have never seen written Scots. There's nothing hard at all about translating in your head dinnae to didn't, ah'm to i'm, it takes less than a millisecond to process.

>>8074759
>god, all you people are proving with these points is that you've never once interacted with Scottish people or have never seen written Scots.
This, for some reason it's literally always "dinnae" that filters people. The only possible way you couldn't understand it is if you were an ESL.

>>8050097
It resulted in some of the greatest KINO of all time

>>8074719
Only Termina. All the people in the outskirts have been there for millennia. Even still if Porre colonized it why is there just ONE guy with a Scottish accent? It still makes no sense on any level.

>>8051528
Never seen this, cross has a lot of optional content no?

>>8075070
Pretty sure that is a mandatory boss

>>8074759
>>8074779
>"Gosh, why are Chrono Cross players unfamiliar with Scotts?"
>Chrono Cross was not released in PAL territories.
Try again, assholes.

>>8075212
So? Have you never heard a Scottish person speak ever in your life? I live in Florida, how do I have more Scottish exposure than you do?

>>8053568
SaGa Frontier 1 and 2 are different in both presentation and gameplay.

>>8053863
>You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18.

>>8057524
ä = æ = ae
ö = œ = oe
ü = uu
ß = ss

>>8049575
Kid's accent annoys me the most not only because it is obnoxious to read, she should not have one at all being raised by Lucca.

>>8059158
>Barely anyone was a weeb at that time.
Western Europeans (Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, etc.) were jerking off to anime long before it caught on with Americans, Canadians, Brits, Scots, Irishmen, Aussies, New Zealanders. Likewise with Latin Americans dubbing anime because it was fodder and filler with TV slots. Don't pretend anime was this mystified thing outside Asia. Even Americans and Canadians were jerking off to anime since the ‘80s in clubs and cons. Mail in tape fansubs were a thing. Licensors and translators like ADV, Viz, AnimEigo, Manga Entertainment, Media Blasters were out and around since the early '90s. Not counting western branch Bandai Entertainment and Pioneer prior to being structured as Geneon. Weebs have been around by the time Chrono Cross hit.

>>8050117
What do you mean by "dry"?

>>8075505
>You will immediately continue to not know or care about localization drama because you are not a cocksucking faggot
ftfy

>>8075070
It's the boss you encounter when you enter Chronopolis

>>8075553
I think her main quirk in Japanese was that she spoke with the pronoun "ore" to give off a rough tomboy vibe. So apparently the localizers thought Aussie was the suitable masculine "tough guy" equivalent and didn't think twice about other implications this may have had with her backstory. Speech patterns are one thing, but it was always a reach to equate pronouns with dialects.
>>8076040
Words like "dry" and "flavor" are just coping mechanisms for questionable localizations.

>>8074759
>>8074779
Butthurt Scots detected. I am a native English speaker and can't understand Scots for shit with their broken ass English. I stayed at ab Airbnb where the wife had to translate the husband for me. I understand Arabic and Spanish, second languages to me, better.

If Chrono cross didn't try to pass itself off as a sequel to Chrono trigger I think people would have a higher opinion of this game.

Cross drew me in like almost no game has ever before.

It was the first game that made me reflect on my own life, i still remember not saving the fairy character coming back to see an empty cage, and immediately deleting the save file so i could save her again.

the bad is that they tried too hard to at the end and some of the plot was lost, because it was too big brain.

music is 10/10

>>8076861
Nice larp, already said I'm from Florida, so what's your excuse for having worse Scots comprehension than me? Nobody fucking believes a native English speaker understands Arabic better than Scots, give us a break.

>>8075563
Bullfuckingshit. it was niche as fuck. I'm so sick of faggots on 4chan making up bullshit arguments and going down with the ship insisting they're right because they can never admit they're retarded and just want to argue. Go back.

>>8049575
That game wasn't good.

I'm sorry you got memed by commercials in the 00's.

>>8071613
i wish i never read this....

>>8077317
>one of the highest rates RPGs of all time
> still talked about in 2021 despite being years old
> Amazing music that is still sampled by artists today.

You should tip your fedora, it aint going to tip itself

>>8055382
But today's standards are shit like Treehouse.

>>8049601
Nigger, everyone knows Woolsey's problems stemmed from Nintendo's guidelines, deadlines, and system limitations he had to contend with. For the time his translations were acceptable, the only problem is that, like with Faggot Ireland, people over-evangelize his work and think it's gospel to how the games are to be portrayed and eschew any and all inaccuracies he made.

Vic on the other hand is fag who, when not shoe-horning in jokes, tampered with mechanics and difficulty when he had no reason to, and in some cases like Silhouette Mirage he made the games unplayable. The only reason his meme company got praise is because they gambled on releasing JRPGs no one else would bet on, and over time that goodwill evaporated the more he tinkered with shit. Fuck him and fuck you.
>>8050257
>Vic the person should be separated from the games he and his company worked on.
Except Vic the person come through in all the retarded jokes he forced in the games, such as putting DUDE WEED references in stuff because he wanted to be cool and brag about being a pothead.
>>8055382
>>8073134
This

>>8063136
It never even occurred to me that Schala's disappearance in CT was a plot hole until the end of Cross. When that twist was revealed, my only response was "huh interesting."

>>8077295
to your shitty generation childhood it was kino, but CT had Lucca not saving her mom from becoming a cripple. I wouldve played the entire game over again just to save her.

>>8077310
No faggot, he isn't wrong, and you can look it up yourself. Even before anime "got big" around the late 90s thanks to Toonami, Disney-licensed Ghibli films, and Pokemon, there were already companies releasing OVAs and movies on VHS and LD, usually to comic stores and dedicated video shops. Blockbuster had a small section of tapes (usually stuff like Project Ako and Akira) to rent. Manga Entertainment co-produced the 1995 GITS movie and got it a worldwide release (though the theatrical distribution outside Japan was small).

And that's just officially; you already fansubs dating back to mid 80s starting with the Macross DYRL movie being subbed by fans at a captioning suite, and conventions for sharing this stuff (usually raw unsubbed broadcast tapes and even film prints) date back to the early 80s at least.
>I'm so sick of faggots on 4chan making up bullshit
Same, I hate when retards need to larp when they argue with people who can back up their claims with facts and dates instead of anachronistic shitposting. Please stop doing that, you sound like a fag and your shit's all retarded.

>>8077327
>Reviews
Gerstmann publicly regretted letting a contractor give the game a 10.
>Music
Easily the bottom rung of the Square PSX rpgs, which means it’s still pretty good. But compared to Chrono Trigger? Kek.

Game is a failed sequel that completely misunderstood everything that made Trigger charming and memorable and you can cope as much as you want but your soul knows it’s true.

>>8076962
It barely did though. Square of Japan was trying to insist Chrono Cross was NOT Chrono Trigger 2, while Square of America were the ones marketing it as a direct sequel.

>>8049575
I love when people complain about pop culture references being "added" without checking the Japanese script and realizing they're in the original. Same fucking idiots complaining about "Censorship" when Danganronpa referenced Orange Juice when it was "Supposed" to be wine even though it was Orange Juice in the original version too.

>>8077836
Yes, because we all know the original Jap version of Lunar had bill Clinton references, or how the original script for Crusader of Centy was meant to have a fucking Snoop Dogg reference.

Quit being a simp bootlicker, son

>>8077998
>Bow, wow, wow!
>Yipee yo, yipee yay!

>>8077382
did you even play the game?

>>8077998
Crusader of Centy had two official English translations. Check out the European version for Atlus' script.

>>8078460
Sorry, meant to say Sega of Europe's translation. Atlus were the people who published their own version in the US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvtPE6iWn-4

>>8049575
the trouble with the accents is they made a custom text mutator that applies the accents during gameplay so they wouldn't have to remember the exact accent rules for each character and make the same generic speech lines 47 times. It was sometimes overzealous in its application

>>8078484
Left reads better.

>>8077374
AhhhHHHH what a BIG man you are1
Here I'll buy you a pack of gum teach you how to chew it. *Ooh!*

>>8077998
It actually did

>>8050621
>>8053445
>>8054775
>>8056584

It does feel it was a different game in the beggining, and then they changed it to tie with Chrono Trigger in the middle of the development.

Also, I'm pretty sure that at least half of the game was finished, given the text dump right before Lavos. We were supposed to see the other continents, fix a the Porre invasion and so on. I'm sure we were supposed to visit another dimension and get Harley to the team without a New Game+. Sadly the game was too ambitious to realise its vision.

The plot itself is great, the execution is half finished. That happened to Xenogears too. IRC Square limited the development time of the games in two years, so a lot of games came out rushed.

Also a lot of anime/games at the time suffered form the convoluted syndrome, I believe it started on XG.

It's not a really bad game though, I just think that it's not a sequel to CT, just an original game that references it. It's hard to judge its artistic merit, since it's unfinished.

>>8057440
If I remember correctly, the FATE rewrites their brains.

>>8077295
See, I think the art and music are 10/10, but that the story suffers from a bit of pacing issues. I really like the story, as the thread shows, there is a lot there, but they backloaded a lot of the delivery which hurts the mid-game where you're not totally sure what is going on. Adding to this is having too many characters which creates the problem of many seeming trivial and making their side quests less engaging.

I think the multiple characters makes the battle system a bit better, because you get the unique ones like Sprigg, but the battle system overall is par for the era. Too many random encounters that are hard to avoid compared to CT is another issue.

The general mood and motifs, about identity making someone who they are, are done really well, but then the cool stuff with FATE waits too long to develop.

So, I actually do see why it was the best reviewed rpg of the PS1 generation, but there is definitely room for improvement with tightening up the plot, adding more branches (the branching story lines were unique though for the time), and winnowing down the characters for better development.

CC would actually make a way better game to reboot than FF7. I feel like you could cut out big sections of the plot and expand on the cool stuff at the end, and some sort of parallel retelling of the story makes more sense with CC.