/vr/ - Retro Games

>never get credit
Sony fans are quick to mention the dualshock whenever there's any N64 vs PS1 console war shitposting goin on.
>Is there other unknown stuff
How the fuck is the dualshock unknown?
Anyway, it's not THAT revolutionary. Yeah the right stick... but the concept of twin sticks or twin controls was not new.

>>8042813
but the grip... the shape... the iconic design... the symmetry... its somethign to admire really

>Quick! We need analog controls and rumble because the N64 has them!
>Sheeeeeit, let's just slap them on our old gamepad which is a ripoff of the SNES pad.

>>8042798
There's nothing ergonomic about the placement of the left joystick.

>>8042825
Well, you can like all of that alright, but none of that is revolutionary, really.
I personally am fine with the PS controller but never was a big fan of the d-pad or the analogs, I do like the symbols on the face buttons though.

>>8042857
Symmetrical joysticks provide objectively superior control.

>>8042825
It was a nice step up. I really dislike old flat back controllers, even as a kid in the day I remember finding the SNES and Genesis a bit off, though I didn't really think about any of it too much, I just played.

Still, I view the Dualshock to be a step in a process, with Dreamcast and than XBox taking it further. I'm quite fond of those and find the adherence to symmetry with the dualshock to be a negative of it.

>>8042857
why the left joystick speficially? is your left hand different from your right hand?

>>8042861
no they don't and you don't know what objective means

>>8042887
They do, my little turd world friend.

It's amazing that they got is so right so early considering it was until the 7th gen when camera controls were even standardized. I get what you mean.

I'm always partial to the original PS1 controller though, it's my favorite.

>>8042881
Because you are forced to exercise your hand in a manner that is not comfortable to move around. The Xbox controller has a superior joystick layout.
Even Nintendo agreed and put their joystick in the same spot.

>>8042876
xbox triggers are nice but i dont see it as a direct upgrade but more of an alternative take on modern controllers
otherwise i agree they're more comfortable for non-baby hands than the original PSX and PS2 controllers

>>8042798
ITs not revolutionary or ahead of the game if the only company that continues this design is the company that invented it

Sony stubbornly sticks to the design even though the DPAD has always been terrible and its still lacking in ergonomics even in the ps5 iteration.

The real revolutionary designs came from Sega, which were then iterated on by Xbox.

THe dualshock is not the first controller to feature rumble
not the first controll to have two analog sticks
and the design was not used by its competitors

So where is the revolutionary aspect to it

>>8042914
i have no idea what you're talking about
you mean because of how you have to open up your hand more to move your thumb down to the stick? maybe its just personal bias because i always had playstations but i never thought it was an issue

>>8042914
>Because you are forced to exercise your hand in a manner that is not comfortable to move around.
Incorrect. Hint: Height matters very much here. Using a dpad in the lower position requires contorting your thumb in a manner that using a stick in that lower position does not.
>Even Nintendo agreed
They sure did.

>>8042910
Sony has always been a scummy uncreative company that sloppily copies what other people invent. I think the older I get the more I hate Sony. A lot of the modern day cancer killing video games was introduced by Sony with the PS1 and PS2

>>8042918
The design of it has been largely untouched for almost 25 years. In the next couple of years the Playstation across all gens will have sold half a billion units. Seems like it has worked pretty well for most.

>>8042929
The 5th and 6th gen were a golden age bexause of Sony. Cope.

>>8042926
>>8042921
Up on a ps controller isn't a straight up motion it's more of a diagonal up and right.
And I meant the switch controller.
The Wii is a joke.

>>8042917
I've noticed that this is the disagreement, and thus I say to each their own. I prefer the XBox ones the best, but the fundamental shift was not having a flat controller, that was the biggest ergonomic jump for me.

>>8042935
All the best games were on other platforms.

>>8042929
>A lot of the modern day cancer killing video games was introduced by Sony with the PS1 and PS2
Elaborate.

>>8042930
>untouched
Because its fucking Sony making it. Sony is known for being stubborn with this. You're acting like every modern controller uses the Dualshock design.
TO take it to the extreme. If I made a total piece of shit in the 90s and still used it today would you call it revolutionary and ahead of the game because the design hasbeen untouched for 25 years despite me being the only one to use my awful controller?

>>8042876
retards love to shit on the dreamcast controller but it's nice to hold if you don't have tiny hands, it's chunky but light, only problem is the single analog and downgrade to 4 face buttons

>>8042914
Every time someone complains about the position of the sticks on PlayStation controllers I'm always left wondering why do Progeria patients think their inputs matter on these discussions?

>>8042936
Another hot take from the 70 IQ phoneposter. Incredible.

>>8042939
They were selling their consoles because they sold it as a general media box first and gaming machine second. I find the way they do business in general rather distasteful but thats more opinion as one mans ruthless is another man's good business.

>>8042939
Sony has never been a risk taker, they just try to make safe bets and do the bare minimum. Then they'll turn around and go for anti-consumer practices as soon as they gain any position of power in themarket

>>8042945
Sorry faggot the Xbox controller is superior to the dual shock in nearly every conceivable way.
Sony is too stubborn to fix their terrible choices.

>>8042940
Wow, I'm fucking blown away that the two other major competitors didn't bend over backwards to copy the design. Amazing point. I'm saying this controller has passed through hundreds of millions of hands and most everybody likes it. It works. It's comfortable to use. It's iconic. Suck my dick.

>>8042940
Wow, I'm amazed that the two other major competitors didn't bend over backwards to copy a competitors design. Amazing point.

This controller has passed through the hands of hundreds of millions of people. It's withstood the test of time. It's comfortable to use it's iconic. Suck my dick.

>>8042971
>>8042961
Weird, I had to re-write this because it didn't post and then it posted twice. This time: lick my balls.

>>8042936
>it's more of a diagonal up and right.
what?

>>8042961
>>8042971
I don't think you know what revolutionary or 'ahead of the game' even mean man. Your sony bias here is totally absurd

>>8042942
Dreamcast was a real step up, and was an excellent controller. I STILL like the VMU and only wish it had a rechargeable battery. Worst thing about it was the wire out of the bottom, which is less of a pain then many like to say.

>>8042981
On a ps controller you have to move your thumb from the straight position where it normally sits as it is an opposable appendage and then move it sideways to the right and move it upwards.
Instead of twisting up in a normal upward motion like an Xbox joystick.

>>8042990
Talking to you is gay. Get to your point. Which controller is your dick the hardest for?

>>8042960
Every subconscious issue I had with the Dualshock was shone in stark relief once I held a Duke.
I even bought the hyperkin Duke because I love it so much.

>>8042992
There are better DC controllers now
https://retrofighters.com/our-collection/strikerdc-dreamcast-controller/

>>8042995
why do you talk like that

>>8043002
My first thought looking on it is that I don't know I'd consider that better, but it's hard to tell without holding it.

>>8043000
There are third party PS4 controllers with the correct layout.
https://www.maketecheasier.com/ps4-controllers-alternatives/

>>8043000
checked

>>8043005
On the of controller you had to kind point your elbows inward and the end of your fingers hit the memory card slots.

>>8042961
>>8042971
It's the most timeless, successful controller, so of course you're going to get a lot of irrational criticism against it on a contrarian board.
>>8042981
He has very low spatial intelligence.
>>8042992
The DC controller is genuinely terrible in both build quality, function, and ergonomics.

>>8043003
500 million people can't be wrong.

>>8043000
Duke was great. I've always had big hands and so even as a kid I never remember it being much issue. I can kind of see the complaints about the white/black button, but also understand that this was also partly because they were intended as buttons that only did extra stuff (flashlight in Halo being a good example).
Honestly, I think most modern controllers are good. Only the Switch's basic controllers and the Wii controller were garbage. I almost wonder if they do it on purpose to sell pro controllers.

>>8043012
Og*

>>8043006
the duke's bulk is really ergonomically nice. To the point where sometimes i feel like the 360 was a step back

when I go back and read complaints from those journalists saying the duke is too big im just confused man. how small are these people? I'm not a giant and i dont have big hands. I'm not even 6 feet.

>>8042951
>>8042959
That doesn't explain anything.

>>8043019
ok.

>>8043015
>>8043018
Yeah I can't even palm a basketball and the Duke fits me like a glove. Game Journalists have always been a joke but they really killed a nice controller.

>>8043018
White and black buttons were too far away.
If you're playing tiger woods golf you had to spam them for power boost and spin.

>>8043013
I think it was pretty good. Not perfect, like I said I think XBox took the design further and improved on it. Dreamcast had good button placement, the offset analog stick was good. A pretty deep (tall?) d-pad for when you used it. The blades on the back of the controller allowed for a nice grip. I would agree it felt light. Though so did most controllers back then. It's been so long since I've held a Dualshock 1 that I can't exactly remember, but I swear the 2 was a lot denser. The original PS1 controller was very light.

>>8043012
It's still hard for me to judge that new one without holding it. I concede that point about the original Dreamcast controller though.

oh xbox controller s is the peak of retro controller designs. do not @ me with your retard Duke controllers or your midget hands dualshlocks

>>8043151
I see you, fellow man of taste.

>>8042926
Why'd you post the classic controller, a controller that was marketed for those who wanted something to play those 2D NES and SNES games on the Virtual Console?

>>8043167
You are forgetting that we were forced to play 3D virtual console games like OOT on the classic controller. It was required and not optional

>>8043151
Xbox controller was a piece of shit.
>>8043160
Post the original one. I hated it. But it was their first try.
Most would say the Gamecube ( if you take the button lay-out out of the equation). Most ergonomic for me was the N64. Forget it had a useless half. It felt good in my hands. Dreamcast was also shit.
>Wii-mote
Fuck, whose throat do i have to wrap this cord around. Mega-drive what the fuck was even that

>>8042798
this just reminded me of the retard who thinks that the xbox duke is what standardised the current layout of controllers: https://youtu.be/ygDtD9O89Jc?t=23

>>8042847
It truly was the best half assed design ever, though. That same exact controller layout persisted through three console generations.

>>8042798
>How come they never get credit
they never stopped taking credit for it
>Is there other unknown stuff
what the fuck

>>8043215
5... exclusively by the company that made it
most people i know back in the day tolerated the controller because the games were good. not sure where this praise for everything sony is coming from. i remember cracking open the dpad to play fighting games because it was so shit
>>8043219
zoomers have some insane historical revisionism with retro games

>>8043196
You're a piece of shit

>>8042798
1997- sony are tinkering with the Dualanalog after Nintendo presented the N64 at TGS or Shinshokai.

1998- sony adds the vibration for the dualshock for the release of Starfox 64 and the Rumble pack.

>>8042798
Sega did it first.

>>8042847
>Quick! We need analog controls and rumble because the N64 has them!
It's hilarious that Sony had a tantrum about having to pay Nintendo royalties to use force feedback I guess that when you've spent the last twenty years stealing other companies ideas, you tend to forgot about stuff like patents etc. Still didn't stop them from making the move and adding a touch pad to the PS4 controller later on though.

>>8042798

>>8042891
A gun fighter/swordfighter/driver would disagree. You need a dominant hand and an offhand.

Because they aren't Nintendo. If they were, the dualshock would be sucked off and be put on a pedestal forever.

>>8043454
And boxer for that matter. Asymmetry on the controller sticks is a well thought out idea.

>>8042914
Even sony know this to be true. They knew that the flat circles where the D pad and face buttons sit are the dominant position for the thumbs. They tried to change the pad tho keep up with demand but didn't want to change it too much and this faux pas for whatever reason [copying/ embarrassment] was decided to be a fine compromise.

>>8043468
Perhaps they didn't want to be acused of copying others design. Or they were just being cheap on RnD.

>>8042926
Hold the controller and relax your thumbs. Where do they land? Buttons + Dpad. Case closed.

Quake II and Killer Instinct Gold were the only games I know of that made use of the N64 controller. Goldeneye had this control scheme as an option, but it was shit. You could tell the developers for Quake II came from a pc background. It's fucking fast and responsive in multiplayer. Shame it never got the recognition it deserved.

>>8043480
I got a taste of what internet fps felt like.

>>8043014
And the whole nation of Germany can be? C'mon Zoom zoom stop it. It's embarrassing now.
We like sony as a games device, The controllers are sub optimal for most. People mostly accept what they're given in the original package. They are expensive and Embarrassment is very stigmatic in Japan.

>>8043210
Clever, I like how many uses the Saturn controller would've had.

>>8042798
There are no good Sony controllers. They're all uncomfortable as shit. The button and D-Pad layout, ie. the only good parts, are ripped off from the SNES controller, and the analog sticks are way too low. Fuck Dualshit.

>>8043540
kys lmao

>>8042798
Whats the deal with sony fanboys acting like they're a poor oppressed minority these days?
>Woe is me, mommy bought me the most popular consoles of all time

>>8042959
Are you implying nintendo isnt anti consummer ?

>>8043592
>nintendo do it so it's good when muh sonny does it

>>8043151
PS3 and PS4 got the size right
PSX and PS2 were just designed for japanese people or children i guess

>>8043429
what did they do?

>>8044474
They're all the same size, schizo.

>>8044482
are you actually retarded or have you never held them in your hands? PS2 controller feels noticeably small compared to PS3 or PS4. Smaller size and smaller grips.

>>8042798
Because Americans prefer original Xboxs S type controller...

It's just better in the hand and better for fps and everything really imo

>>8044495
I dunno about PS4 since I don't play trash consoles, but I have a DS2 and a DS3 right here and they're the same. Fcking. Size. You're a schizo.

>>8044513
namecalling doesnt make you right or less braindead

Sony needed an answer to Nintendo and Sega's analog controllers. The dual analog controller only had a second stick to maintain compatibility with games that used this thing (pic). Sony was accidentally innovative.

>>8042936
>>8042981
I thought this shit was just me. Sometimes I find myself pulling the left analog up on Playstation-styled controllers just slightly to the right

>>8044535
even then they still fucked it up. Sony's only constant over the years has been slowly shifting their design to be more like what sega originally started with. but they're too stubborn to change the dpad still i see
i guess sony thinks its iconic now

>>8042918
>Not first dual analog
If you are talking about the Saturn twin stick, that's half fair point as they did beat them to the concept but it's not a controller with buttons and two thumbsticks, it's two joysticks on one tabletop controller.
>PS1 ripped off N64.
Copying is ripping off. The dual analog was a response. They realized they failed with no thumbstick. This is common knowledge. But then they also realized one thumb stick is still trash.

Nintendo made a stupid controller for the N64. Xbox and GC copied the dual analog completely just switched the placement of the left dpad and thumbstick.

You could say the details made the controller inferior, but all later controllers have the same issue. The left one who cares, but fps games on console would be way more tolerable if the right stick were placed higher so your thumb could move left and right. This part the N64 actually got right but you have to use two N64 controllers at the same time which leaves you with just two buttons, or you can switch the movement controls over to the c pad.

So yeah the dual sticks aren't even that great for fps but still major step up for consoles. Not very good for aiming per se but controlling the camera in any general 3D game

Why was the other PSX thread removed?

>>8042938
PS2 proves this comment wrong

>>8044506
Fucking this.
Hold it and rest your hands and boom all set not jacking your left thumb to the right all cockeyed.

>>8042798
dualshocks are the best BUT:
my ONLY complain TO THIS DAY is that they don't have 6 buttons on the right like sega does.

I like their d-pad more than any other. nothing can be exactly the way one wants, right? I wish i wasn't i brainlet to mod my own.

>>8044639
>xbox and gc copied the dual analog
God I fucking hate it when people get simple historical facts wrong
>n64 controller is dumb
Ok zoomer

>>8044639
sega says hello >>8043000 sonydrone

>add extra shoulder buttons to a SNES controller
>"oh hey analog controllers are a good idea"
>instead of redesigning the controller to accommodate analogs they just stick them wherever they fit on the existing design
>becomes standard purely through the PS1's existing popularity rather than any positive merits of its design (there are none)

>>8046007
But its not standard. sony is the only one that ever used that design.

>>8042847
This. They'd ripped off the SNES controller, and the N64 analog stick had them scrambling for a counter.

The dual shock is a fantastic controller, honestly my favorite, but everyone knew its design happened almost entirely by accident; The second stick was there just to one-up Nintendo (as evidenced by that fact very few developers had any idea what to do with it for a over year), and the location of the sticks was most likely chosen because it meant the least retooling of their moulds.

It's pure luck that they just happened to stumble across a perfect form.

>>8042847
have an upgrade

>>8042847
>The other circle has an o in it for 'other circle'

>>8046091
>that early 00s computer aided drafting look.
What show?

>>8046109
I don't know

>>8046109
Here is a guide on how to get it faster than anon would be able to reply. It doesn't always work for shit that is too obscure or too new, but it usually works.

>How come they never get credit for being so ahead of the game in controller design and usability?
They do, then the nincels come in and talk about the snes pad. See >>8042847

>>8042857
>>8042914
I will never ever understand what the fuck is wrong with these types.
Symmetrical human hand = symmetrical controller, simple as. Dpad on Gamecube and Xbox looks and feels like an afterthought.
Sega was the first one to try the analog stick above the dpad (posting Dreamcast because Saturn 3D Pad was a rare sight) and it sucked...Slapping Microsoft on that design didn't make it any better.

>>8046371
i will never understand why its always sony people who are so fucking incapable of accepting how subjective this all is

>>8046371
The Dreamcast is an abomination only surpassed by the horrible X-Box controller, but it placing the analog where it did is the one thing it didn't fuck up.

>>8046371
Imagine playing Sonic Adventure or Crazy Taxi with anything but a Dreamcast controller. Disgusting.

>>8046371
>Symmetrical hands = symmetrical controller
but symmetrical controller means my human hands wouldnt be symmetrical

behold, autism

>>8046465
I agree you need a Dreamcast pad for the SOVL but it's not because it's a good controller.

>>8046474
>no xe-1 ap
not enough autism

>>8046503
True. It also lacks pic related, the Sony Move. Another Sony motion tech innovation.

>>8046474
The Sidewinder doesn't have real triggers, they're just shoulder buttons.

>>8046371
>>8046403
Handlets can't appreciate how great Dreamcast and Duke controllers fit the hands.

>>8043454
With guns, you're constantly in the right stick for aiming, and triggers for attacks, face buttons are secondary.
A sword fighter like Demon's Souls also outs the action on the triggers and emphasizes the camera control.
Driving games, you're also mostly on the triggers.

Back in the day, retro games relied on the face buttons, and they are worse for it in many cases. So many old racing games have gas on a face button and it sucks. The triggers are objectively better to use for many games, and keeping a hand on the camera control should be important at all times for anything that's not driving. Gone are the days of people bitching about awful camera of retro games, because now they actually put that shit in your hands, and are right to do so.

>>8046371
But you're not using the right stick as you would the left.
Your thumb on the right rests on the buttons.

>>8046028
lol fanboy

>>8043006
>correct layout
No, that's one thing Sony did right sticking to that layout. The analogue stick must always be subservient to the dpad.

>>8047124
most of their games use stick sorry.

>>8046371
sega have always had shit controllers, except for the saturn, DC and MD controllers never felt right in my hand but the DC controller deservers more credit for being the predecessor to the duke and future xbox controllers because they are hands down the comfiest shit to hold
>>8046379
and fuke you handlet the duke rocks

also the dual analogue is comfier than the dualshock

>>8046474
>no sega controllers
autism indeed

>>8042798
Eh, probably good enough for brain dead normies

>>8042798
Because N64 introduced analog stick and games to use it like Mario 64.
Turns out 2 sticks is better than one but it was too late by then for Sony to be credited with anything but a refinement, especially since PSX developers couldn't depend on all players having the dual shock controller.

That's the answer. The rest of this thread is pure faggotry.

>flagship title
>Boss fight ruins your controller
Brava Ninty. Maybe you should stick to whores.

>>8047162
even games that use the stick, it should still be subservient

>>8046773
>But you're not using the right stick as you would the left.
You are though. It depends on the game.

Reminder that sega genesis was objectively the most ergonomic console controller until the 5th gen consoles came out. Just look at that little curve going downwards to help the grip be more comfortable, as opposed to the flat NES and SNES controls that weren't a good grip at all

>>8050004
Genesis 3-button controller is pure SEX.

What are peoples opinions on a ball replacing the Dpad or stick?

>>8046728
Shooting and accelerating bound to the trigger is absolutely soulless.

>>8050201
I find ball ever-so-slightly inferior to stick. I think it comes down to the ability to mold textured grips on the stick and more freedom to shape the tops of the sticks to an average individuals' thumb. You're more limited on that when you employ a trackball design, because it still has to be able to roll freely.

>>8050212
It could still be springy with a little give, the contacts could still work on a textured ball. If it had lots of tiny dimples or it it was read with a lazer for instance.