/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8029062
The console launch price is $999 to accomodate for all your additions.

>>8029187
No, just a extra $25 dollar loss.

>>8029219
You forgot the Stoleour tax. All Sega had to do was make it backward compatible with the Geneshit & CD and it would have done well. They pissed off all the people they needed with the launch and never recovered.

>>8029062
>Releases itself from this mortal coil
Dooweet

>>8029062
>That'll be 600 dollars, sir.

>Releases in November of 1994
>Genesis support dies off as soon as Saturn hits the market
Turrible.

>>8029463
>dies off as soon as Saturn hits the market
Nibba, SONIC 3D FLICKY'S ISLAND is from 1996 and it's on both Saturn and MegaDrive

>>8029062
In the end it drives your car

>>8029062
there are ways to save the saturn but making it even more expensive is not it

>>8029062
Sega quits the console market without even giving us the Dreamcast

>>8029062
>>VDP1 supports both Quads and Tris.
Quads are a complete red herring when discussing the weaknesses of the console's 3D functions. The real issue is that it uses forward texture mapping instead of inverse texture mapping. The texture mapping is related to the primitives used, but it's the mapping that is the problem rather than the primitive.

Release the Mars instead of the Saturn which has B/C with all Genesis games and give it an optional CD add-on which supports Sega CD games, let the developers choose whether they want to make new games in cart or CD format. Undercut the Playstation so you btfo it and Sony never takes over the industry.

Then in the late '90s release the 3dfx Black Belt Dreamcast instead of the PowerVR one, since it would have allowed more seamless PC game multiplats and not pissed off EA and other US devs to the point of boycotting the system.

That's how you save Sega.

I don't know what you guys are on about.
I love my Saturn.

>>8029857
oh boy tell me all the fun you had
>inb4 boring arcade ports and shitty sports shmup and racing games

>>8029857
>loving the system that killed Sega

Why do you hate Sega so much?

>>8029062
not reading that

>>8029867
Power Slave is probably one of my favorite games on it. Really love Keio Flying Squadron and Albery Odyssey too. VG is also fucking sick. I also play lots of Japanese games on it which i'm sure don't appeal to many people. I just don't understand why obsessed Sega schizo's hate it so much.

>>8029849
the 32x was an even bigger flop than the saturn though.

>>8029875
because it has like no fucking games on it dude rxmat its the closestamerica got to the PC-FX.
i think ill take oot or xenogears instead mate

>>8029878
Because of being an add-on that had to compete with a new console, the Saturn. If it were a stand-alone system with no Saturn in the picture it would've done a lot better.

>>8029882
There are tons of games on it. Just ones that don't appeal to you i guess? Why not just let it go already. Fact is lots of people love the system. And are willing to shell out some of the craziest prices to collect for it.

>>8029882
>i think ill take oot or xenogears instead mate
panzer dragoon saga is better than either of those tho

>>8029892
it still would have been severely underpowered and outdated within a few months.

>>8029896
Where are the games? Literally every console has games that appeal to me.I DONT SEE ANY GAMES ON THE SATURN

MAYBE burning rangers? other than that the saturn is utterly mediocre. It only has ports that are better realized on other systems. The few exclusives are completely generic and again better realized on other games on different systems

>>8029062
I think it would do better but the overall aesthetic of Saturn games just didn't appeal to western audiences the same way as PlayStation did. Something about their look and feel, their color scheme.

You'd need games like Armored Core, Colony Wars, WWF Warzone, Gran Turismo, Tekken, etc. There was a certain something about these kinds of games that didn't appear as much on the Saturn.

>>8029062
>What changes
Nothing. It's a piece of shit no matter what.

>>8029062
Nothing. Success isn't based on specs or even library, it's marketing and gaining a userbase.

>>8029908
Nah, the 32x had untapped potential: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r3Cb4zr9Kc

Could it do better 3D games than the PS1 or Saturn? Of course not. But that's not the point, the point is to offer a cheaper platform and keep your pre-existing userbase from ditching you, which is what ended up happening by them going with the Sega Saturn.

OP, how about this?:

SoA is able to convince Japan to go with what would become the 3DO hardware when they were given the chance in 90/91. Replace ARM CPU at 12.5mhz with the Saturn's SH-2 at 28.6Mhz and uses sdram for its 2MB block of work RAM instead of standard dram. Custom chips clocked to the higher 28.6 clock instead of 25mhz. Worldwide launch in 1994 at $399 with a price drop to $299 by the PSX launch.

>>8029935
>Nah, the 32x had untapped potential:
Tech demos prove very little, particularly on a console which renders everything in software. i.e. it's easy to have good graphics when you're not spending processing power on anything else.
> But that's not the point, the point is to offer a cheaper platform and keep your pre-existing userbase from ditching you
The 32x simply could not handle any of the games people bought a 5th gen system for. It couldn't handle Tomb Raider or Resident Evil or Daytona. It served no niche, and customers would have ditched it even faster than the Saturn. At best it was capable of competent Model 1 ports but they dried up fast and people weren't terribly interested in that sort of thing regardless.

>>8029935
Dont make the 32x
dont make the sega saturn or release anything early

Release the Sega Neptune/Mars with the cheapest disc drive possible (no carts)
ship with the 3D controller as default
secure 3rd party deals
price cut the playstation
new sonic
new SoR

call it the Genesis II or Mega Genesis or something in north america

>>8029961
nah you have no clue. i doubt you even own a 32x.
The 32x released not as an addon but as a 5th gen console would have been fine. The success of the PSX proves that nobody gave a fuck about hardware and cared more about
1. cheap games
2. lots of games

>>8029971
>The success of the PSX proves that nobody gave a fuck about hardware and cared more about
>1. cheap games
>2. lots of games
Nearly all of which the 32x had zero chance of running.

I think the black color scheme was played out by the time of the Saturn. Should have gone with white.

>>8029975
Irrelevant to the conversation. you're thinking small

>>8029975
You think the 32x is way weaker than it is.

>>8029975
you're insane if you think resident evil is that high spec. the 32x would not have been weak enough to be significant at all.
The point is to make a console that other companies would practically be shooting themselves in the foot saleswise to not release on. Rather than having the 32x and saturn be easy to ignore because of the low adoption rate.

Playstation is still hundred dollars cheaper. In your scenario 125 dollars or more. Same thing happens but even worse and SEGA might go bankrupt.

>>8030090
Resident Evil isn't high spec for a 5th gen game, yet the 32x would still shit itself trying to run it. 32x was too weak to be relevant as a competitor. It simply didn't offer anything.
A console has to be capable of running games if you want anyone to make games for it.

>>8030102
your claim that the 32x cant run anything comes from nothing . LOOK at 32x games. look at the tech demo. look at the specs.

>>8030114
>Look at 32x games
>Look at the specs.
That is how I came to this conclusion. The 32x observably shits itself whenever you try to do anything except flat polygons at glacial framerates.

>>8030137
Whatever man, you've got some kind of crazy weird bias. you just seem to want to kill all dialogue
fine you win sega loses forever no matter what
god you must be real fun at parties

>>8030143
how embarrassing

>>8029867
EOP detected.

>>8030154
why are you being mean? i speak multiple languages just not japanese. how can anyone be expected to learn japanese?
what do i even get out of it, im already overwhelmed with the amount of games i have available to me as it is

>>8030163
Shit talking a console when you don't have the ability to play the majority of its library is disingenuous. How do people whose hobby is playing Japanese games not know Japanese? Literally insane.

>>8030184
i literally see no games on the saturn worth learning japanese for. i don tneed to know japanese to know that the PC-FX is a piece of shit either

>>8029867
Technically the saturn sort of had quake in its library too.

>>8030189
Just admit you don't like video games that aren't bing bing wahoos OR you're sour grapesing this because you will never, EVER be able to experience the Saturn the way it was meant to be played.

>>8029062
The security isn't that strict if you only need to solder 1 wire.

>>8029435
It will still be $400.
>>8029463
Ristar needed to be a Saturn game anyway.
>>8029532
It needed to be Saturn only and full 3D, not pre-rendered.
>>8029921
Sonic will sell the system.

>>8030357
>Sonic will sell the system.
Not a 2D sprite Sonic game. People would have laughed at Sega trying to get you to buy a 400 dollar new system for a game that looks like it could run on what they already own.

>>8030370
Not with a richer pallet and sound tract.
Sonic was that big.

>>8029892
The 32x was as hard to program as the Saturn, don't delude yourself.

>>8029965
>dont make the sega saturn
I love the Saturn you big homo.

>>8030414
Easier, less chips to deal with.

>>8030527
just because the saturn isnt made doesnt mean the new thing in the saturn's 'slot' is so different you would dislike it or that all the games released for the saturn dont exist, retard

>>8030357
>Sonic will sell the system.
My friend I tell you this with complete honesty:

No.

>>8030646
Yes, 1994 was the height of Sonic mania, not doing the McDonalds deal and keeping Sonic 3 for the Saturn as a launch game would of done wonders for it.

This thread is hilarious. One single guy insisting the 32X is a good piece of hardware and absolutely refusing to give up no matter how many times other people refute what he says.

>>8029062
Having a good Daytona port would probably have been as useful to Saturn as every change you listed.
>Nights and Xmas nights
>Kuncles Chaotix
LOL both those trash can go in the bin or be sold to Sony/Nintendo to sabotage them.

>>8030709
32x had a better Virtua Racing, Doom and Mortal Kombat than Saturn. To shit on it completely when it out performed Saturn is not fair.

>>8030896
100% fake, The Saturn badly needed SONIC'S Chaotix and Nights and Xmas nights.

>>8029062
>">Supports 256x224 and things like 720/640x448/480p, not just 320X224 and 640x448i."
Ok, now tell me how I know you're underage...

>>8030582
>not having a GPU makes it easier to make games
the absolute state of sega apologists

>>8031428
Carmack agreed, it's best to do it in software using just CPUs.

>>8031439
For Doom and not much else.

Also the Saturn has the same two CPUs as the 32x, but clocked faster, so if you are doing something completely in software like Doom you could just port it unchanged and ignore everything else and still get superior results.

>>8029062
>100~240V 50/60Hz PSU for all markets

where do you have this nonsense information from?

two ninty-nine

im tired of these autistic what if threads
cant we just talk about games

>>8031451
Yeah, but if you cut out all the other stuff from the Saturn, you get a cheaper system, which is what Sega needed to beat the Playstation. So they should've stuck with the 32X/Neptune instead of releasing an overpriced, yet inferior console like the Saturn that needed to be replaced in 4 years anyways because of getting phased out by the N64's superior 3D capability.

>>8032524
The Saturn may have been weaker than the Playstation, but it could at least run downgraded ports of Playstation games. 32x never had a chance.

>>8029062
>100~240V 50/60Hz PSU for all markets.

dont think this is true

>>8032739
Yes it did and you have no proof.
Stop pretending the 32x couldn't run games. There is literally nothing in resident evil that is significantly more complicated than virtua fighter or racer. The Sega Neptune could easily play a paired down version of resident evil. we have seen this behavior with the wii. if it was marketed better and called a MEga Genesis or something in america the adoption rate would way higher than playstation and 3rd parties would be stupid to not port games to it especially if sega is arranging exclusive deals like I said they should do.

>>8032996
>sunk cost fallacy: the post

>>8029187
A lot of what this autistic said wouldn't increase the price much, except the impossibility of the resolution change. Everything else is easily done but somehow getting 480p.... on a Saturn? That would need some beefy changes.

>>8033007
How does that make any sense dude
You're just mindlessly saying
>no its impossible!!
Nobody is saying the new sega neptune would be fucking incredible. just that it would leave sega in a better situation than the disaster that was
>32x coming out
>saturn early launch
>saturn hardware
>sega's cockiness with 3rd parties

>>8030370
Not true. People buy consoles all the time for sub 30fps and low resolutions that are just barely better than before. PS4 and PS4 pro are a great example. At least X1 and X1X were a huge leap.

A more apt example is those that bought GBC when they already had GB.

>>8032996
>There is literally nothing in resident evil that is significantly more complicated than virtua fighter or racer.
How about fucking textures?

>>8032996
>Yes it did and you have no proof.
how about the 32x library

>>8033034
>>8033048
32x=/= sega neptune. Those 32x drawbacks you are referencing would not be present in the standalone console version for obvious reasons

>>8033053
How would your Neptune differ from the 32x?

>>8033061
The 32x was dependent on the genesis cpu. its not a whole console on its own. a lot of its setbacks come from that genesis dependency. a standalone console obviously would not be able to leech on the genesis so the new thing they design to make the standalone work would obviously be better than a genesis just from nature of technology.

>>8033072
I'm asking for specifics. What would the specifications and capabilities of the Neptune be? What spec are you aiming for?

>>8033075
irrelevant not gonna play your game of gotcha. i gave my reasoning. such is sufficient. i've been in the business longer than you've been alive

What is the purpose of this thread?

>>8033083
dude you're the one who wants to redesign it in the first place.

>>8029062
>HEY GUYS what if we stuck some really expensive CPU in the Saturn from the beginning, like a MIPS R4X00-series and maybe one or two ADSP SHARC FPUs to give the 3D more grunt?! It would've only raised the cost of the system to around $5000!!

Shoulda Woulda Coulda, take your meds.

>>8033048
32x library is based, mostly arcade-y action titles, can't go wrong with that. The problem was it was only allowed to live for <6 months. Fuck SoJ.

>>8033053
>>8033072
32x benefited immensely from the Genesis base and allowed an add-on with only 256k ram + framebuffers to punch above its weight and equal and sometimes surpass consoles like the Atari Jaguar. Being dependent on the Genesis' CPU wasn't a bad thing and allowed the software to offload game logic so that its two SH-2s could calculate and buffer more advanced 3d objects, for example. I don't mind the idea of a Neptune in place of the Saturn as a thought experiment and there are ways I think it could be successful, but it's silly if it doesn't have a Genesis built into it.

>What changes?
The console becomes an expensive ton of bricks, released in a time when just about no one is ready to develop for it, SEGA has to scale back hardcore for about a few years, and might just exit the home console market. Everything you said that happens after 96 probably wouldn't even happen because SEGA would be in such a shitty financial situation making an expensive console that no one wants to buy.

>releases November 1994 in both Japan and NA
A fatal mistake, I thought all the stupid gaming history ecelebs on youtube hammered it in pretty clear that the Saturn's early launch around early 1995 in our timeline ended up fucking it up big time for retailers.

>>8030949
Chaotix was a joke. Even worse than 3d blast

>>8033014
>You're just mindlessly saying
Never said any of that. Just mocking a fanboi who overpaid on ebay.

>>8033796
This, though I prefer Chaotix, Chaotix was way too experimental for it's own good, and was better off being a knuckles spinoff, but even then, it's not even that good of a game, and anyone pretending that it's some hidden gem most likely never played the game.

>>8033275
>but it's silly if it doesn't have a Genesis built into it.
Are you under the impression that the Neptune wouldn't natively play Genesis games alongside 32X? Because that's what it sounds like.

If Sega wanted to prolong the life of the Genesis they probably should have invested in accelerator chips like Nintendo did. How different a situation would it have been if the 32X hardware was downsized to an on-board chip that could be included with every cartridge that required it? They had the SVP chip that was used in Virtua Racing but that didn't get used anywhere else, probably because of the 32X looming on the horizon.

>>8035490
The SVP chip was more powerful and delivered better results than any SNES accelerator chip. But it was also made Virtua Racer too expensive.

>>8035518
In truth, the only thing the Genesis really needed was a wider palette for sprites/backgrounds and the ability to scale and rotate sprites in hardware and it could match the SNES pound for pound graphically.

>>8035534
To my understanding that's not something you could really implement with an add on. Though, how was the Sega CD able to rotate/scale backgrounds?

>>8035567
By a custom ASIC and by DMAing those additional layers into the regular VDP output