/vr/ - Retro Games

AAH-
yes

>>8020456
Why The fuck am I be called an 'outlander' when I'm the darkest dirtiest dinner who saved this shithole third world country?.

>>8020484
*dunner

>>8020471
>jiub chub

>>8020471
Absolutely mirin'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkyPnpW7eQ8

STOOPID

>>8020489
>>8020484
*Dunmer. And it's implied that even if you're dunmer, you're still an outlander since you're from outside Vvardenfell. They probably tell because of your weird accent and mannerisms.

>roses are red
>khajiiit have hair

>>8020484
>>8020489
>>8020595
Ain't born on Vvardenfel, then yer an n'wah. Simple as.

>>8020606
>Damn N'wah. They ruined Morrowind

Morrowind is so fucking good and I'm willing to get reasonably excited for the TES6 despite Oblivion and Skyrim both being a step down and Bethesda's track record since being less than stellar.

>>8020624
I want to see more about it but I know it'll be the most dumbed down bullshit ever, following the trends of the ES series.
Arena was basically a tech demo from Daggerfall which was dumbed down a little into morrowind, which made up for it in all other areas, then Oblivion pretty massively takes a step down from Morrowind, and then Skyrim doesn't even have fucking stats. No doubt that ES6 will be an action/adventure game with no RPG elements at all, where you can press a button to be instantly teleported to your objective then automatically get transported back.

>>8020613
You Dunmer sure are a contentious bunch.

>>8020645
>FILTHY S'WIT

>>8020631
The elder scroll games are mainly good for being modded anymore. Skyrim has mods that add attributes, remove fast travel, and other more immersive features for instance.
That's not to say you're wrong though. What gets me is how they've dialed back the scope each time as well. I know it was largely empty but Daggerfall was fucking huge, Skyrim seems tiny in comparison.

>>8020657
People whined when Morrowind was tiny compared to Daggerfall, but Morrowind is packed to the brim with stuff to do so it balances out. I do love getting lot in Daggerfall, though. And don't worry, anon. My Skyrim save is modded to infinity, and that's the only way I can justify playing that shitty game. It sucks so bad, but it's a good starting point for modders who want to make something fun.

>>8020667
Morrowind really did feel like a living place. It was awesome to just be walking around and see a wizard fall out of the sky and learn the same spell that killed him. That same sort of engagement in the world is severely lacking in later entries (absent mods). It's like the focus of the games went from being "how can we make the most immersive experience" to "how can we cater to the largest audience". The later feels more creatively disingenuous

>>8020694
They stopped letting you have fun making your own spells, too. You can only enchant items with enchantments the game has set out for you. Morrowind is awesome because you could in theory find the Scroll of Icarian Flight and then recreate it but with Slowfall, potentially fixing Tarhiel's problem. If you're creative enough you can make some amazing spells and enchantments. Oblivion still had a spellmaker, but you needed to be the Archmage to use it for some fucking reason.

>>8020631
Yeah, I know it's gonna be dumbed down, but whatever. I don't really care for stats, I feel like they've added nothing to Oblivion, and the games are way too long for stats, if anything, I'm glad they've got rid of that in Skyrim.
I like Skyrim more than Oblivion overall, maybe that's why I'm more hopeful for the TES6.
That being said, magic schools and weapons being dumbed down, cities that are WAY too small and all that - yeah, that's a bigger worry for me than stat tinkering.
I'm into these games for the world, but all that subtracts from it.

>>8020727
Stats are a good addition because they effected how your character controlled. High speed meant you moved faster, and you could boost it if needed. Everyone in Skyrim is the same speed, has the same jump height, etc. The only meaningful difference between Skyrim characters is how many hits they can take and how much magic they have. Everything else is fluff. It's not really a game where you roleplay as a character any more, it's a game where you hack and slash your way towards macguffins, and depending on your race choice you'll do it with a different skin and maybe a power. Woo hoo.

>>8020716
Morrowind did really give a lot of agency to the player right out of the gate and they haven't returned to that level of freedom since. It's almost like they didn't want people to "break" the game like taking intellect potions to make better intellect potions ad infinitum until you make god like potions and instead of "fixing" the issue they just removed features entirely or gate-kept them behind late levels. And I don't really think it was game breaking - if anything it was immersive itself, if you're smarter you'll be able to make better potions. If anything just give the effect diminishing returns. I digress
>>8020727
Any idea on where it will be set? Only thing I heard is that it's a far ways out (think I read that Fable 4 will be out first, god knows how they'll continue butchering that series). I worry about the city size too, or even just how dynamically the NPCs interact with the world.

>>8020741
The game even had characters in lore who were "breaking" the game themselves. The Telvanni are just the guys who figured out how to exploit the magicka system. The Dwarves broke the game too hard and deleted themselves. It felt like being able to do crazy shit and make yourself invincible was part of the game's world, and the developers were pushing you to it. Even some enchanted items are fucked up, like the one you get from a Telvanni quest which summons all three atronachs at the same time, and the Boots of Blinding Speed which let you use them without any deficit if you're smart enough to figure out how to remove the blindness effect on equip.

I think the current theory is that 6 will take place in High Rock (and maybe Hammerfell too, like Daggerfall did), but we don't have anything official. I wish they'd do Black Marsh and take the risk to do something crazy and alien again.

Tell me about Dagoth Ur.
Why does he wear the mask?

>>8020727
Strong disagreement, but I'm too tired to get into a heated argument, so I'm just gonna politely call you a faggot and agree with the others.

>>8020739
In that sense, it's almost like a dull bootleg Diablo or Diablo 2, which doesn't have nearly as good aesthetics or music. But yeah, stats add depth to the gameplay and world, removing them from Skyrim and Fallout 4 was one of the biggest mistakes.

I hear some say it was because normies couldn't understand stats or struggled to keep track of the numbers, but honestly, I'm a dyscalculic fatass, and I had no problem with that shit. What the hell is their excuse?
>skills tie to attributes
>5~ is shit, 25~ is novice, 50~ is decent, 75~ is good, 100 is master
>skills level through use or training
>leveling skills lets you level up your character
>the harder you level skills of a given attribute, the higher the bonus you can put into the attribute when leveling up
This isn't complex. Hell, Fallout is even simpler with attributes ranging from 1 to 10 and using experience points.

>>8020741
>It's almost like they didn't want people to "break" the game like taking intellect potions to make better intellect potions ad infinitum until you make god like potions and instead of "fixing" the issue they just removed features entirely or gate-kept them behind late levels.
It's really a crying shame. Being able to bend and break the game by being clever is a big part of why Morrowind was really fun and stimulating.

Breaking the gameplay if you get high enough level I don't think has to be bad, look at Heroes Of Might & Magic III, gameplay balance is fucking lopsided, but that also lets the game be so damn fun. Even if you play as Inferno, the objectively shit faction with the shit units, with luck or good planning, you can still straighten out everyone else's colon, because there's many tools and methods to make you very powerful.
When everyone can get very powerful, that makes multiplayer tense and unpredictable.

>>8021041
>When everyone can get very powerful, that makes multiplayer tense and unpredictable.
What gets me even more is that I understand a concern of multiplayer balance (though as you said taking things out of a game isn't a good way to fix it) but for a single player game, who cares if the players are able to break it? I doubt anyone on their first play-through of Morrowind decided to cheese potions immediately, but even if they did that should be up to the player to choose. Nothing is really lost by allowing for an immersive, if manipulable world, when its a single player game.

>>8020739
Sure, it's not like Skyrim got rid of the stats and got infinitely better and perfect, it's still a pretty hackjob system, but I much prefer this to the Oblivion's broken system.
And I don't think there is much to be roleplayed in the Bethesda games since Morrowind, it's largely just the exploration of the world. You can roleplay, but it's not where the games are shine.

>>8021084
Roleplaying isn't just dialog trees. It's considering different options based on your character's stats and personality, which Morrowind has plenty of. Depending on your build, you'll solve problems differently, even if that problem is something as simple as killing a boss. Rogues will sneak attack and very quickly stab with a dagger, forcing them to take a stealthy approach to the dungeon but being rewarded by boosted damage for sneaking.
Mages will sus out an enemies weaknesses, summon things, lower attributes and buff their own.
Fighters will carry out a full frontal assault in heavy armour.

Skyrim not giving you stats or limiting which skills you can use based on your build makes everyone just take the optimal route (stealth archery) whereas Morrowind rewards players for creating a character within specific perimeters and then role playing within those perimeters.

>>8020478
This fucking line still echoes in my ears from time to time like he was standing right next to me.

>>8021165
Only difference when it comes to stats is that in Skyrim you don't have to create a new character if you would decide to try an learn new set of skills, which you might do when you live in the world, while in Oblivion you wouldn't be able to do that for no other reason than the leveling wouldn't be optimal.
Yes, in the end you either gravitate towards the most dominant strategy (stealth archer in Skyrim's case) or just a powerhouse that can do everything, but it's not like Morrowind and Oblivion were that different in that regard.
You are still rewarded for sticking with a playstyle in Skyrim through perk instead of just straight up damage and a chance to pass a skill check.
Again, it's not perfect, I just feel that it's better for this type of games.

>>8021165
You put it really well.

>>8023327

just started a game. went Breton full mage. wish me luck. ill post my stats in a few

>>8020624
>he fell for todd's lies

I wish more media would handle slavery like Morrowind. It's an accepted part of life, but seen as terrible from a lot of outsiders. You can work to free slaves, or accept the status quo. I don't know, it just feels a lot more adult in that aspect

>>8026035
Yeah. They managed to have mature subject matter without just saying "slavery bad" and leaving it at that. How you interract with an immoral part of society completely depends on what type of character you are or what type of person you are in real life. Any lesser game would have had three forced questlines where you're forced to free X slaves from Y place.

>>8025971
Based. Breton Mage, Imperial Cult, Mage's Guild was one of my first characters and I remember them really fondly. Have fun, anon.

>>8026394
Which mod is this?

>>8020597
Underrated post

>>8020624
The elder scrolls is like a microcosm of the game industry

daggerfall/arena - a small group of young up starts put time and devotion into something and it becomes successful
morrowind - with real bucks, and just enough tech, they are able to make a real game with real depth
oblivion - 3d is established with good graphics, corporate mindset seeps in and fucks shit up to start the vanilla-ing process
Skyrim - graphics must be shiny, show off the hardware, get big set pieces, sell those idiots a shallow experience, goodbye to depth.

So tes goes, as does the industry. At least with the argonian homeworld they have a interesting species with a log of possible nuances to base the game around...

>>8026130
I put my big three as willpower intelligence and luck

>>8021041
The level-up system isn't "hard to understand" it's just fucking bad and unenjoyable
You raise skills through just playing the game, but if you raise the wrong skills then your character is fucked in the games (Oblivion obviously fucks you the most but that doesn't make Morrowind good)
It literally restricts your freedom with a system seemingly designed for freedom
They should just raise your stats automatically through play

>>8029198
>it's just fucking bad and unenjoyable
>but if you raise the wrong skills then your character is fucked in the games
What, by building an absolutely retarded and incongruent class? Yeah, picking skills which don't line up with your selected attributes and specialization won't make for a very playable class, congratulations for picking the options which outright tell you they don't line up.

>>8029198
>They should just raise your stats automatically through play
You should probably kill yourself anon.

>>8029415
>hurr durr i dunno what i'm talking about, surely all you have to do is to pick the skills you want to use and that's how you level up in oblivion, it's THAT easy
neck yourself, moron

>>8029816
leave him alone. stop starting shit. if you dont like morrowind dont go into a morrowind thread. We want skills.

>>8029816
It's your own fault for building a bad character, and can easily be avoided by not lacking a frontal lobe. I understand that this is a struggle for you.

The leveling system is definitely not fully baked, but it doesn't really matter. The game isn't hard enough that you need to min/max anything, and the difficulty scaling is slow enough that accidentally over-leveling via non-combat skills (interesting to note that most games only scale difficulty via combat, even though your level is partially determined through non-combat skills) won't totally fuck you over. Sure, you can play a class that is ass-backwards from a power gaming perspective, but you'll still enjoy yourself and will get along without a problem.
It's the same as with many other games. Lots of people panic about building their character(s) wrong in things like Baldur's Gate, but the fact is the game isn't hard enough to worry about it. Maybe you'll need to tackle a certain battle a level or two later than a power gamer, but that has more to do with experience with the game's systems than the actual numbers in play at any given moment. There's always more cash, consumables, and experience than you'll need to beat an RPG like these, so inefficiencies aren't problems so much as opportunities to roleplay or try a novel approach to the game. Just do whatever is fun.

>>8029973
>accidentally over-leveling via non-combat skills
Considering that you only level up when you sleep, this is fairly avoidable.

here's my guy so far. i wonder how the other op from the thread that inspired me to get this game and give it another chance went. i've never gotten farther than level 10 or so, i always favored oblivion. and then a few years after i discovered them skyrim came out and everyone jumped on board. fun times. anyways how retarded is my build what did i do wrong, thinking of turning off the expansions until i hit level five or six. i've turned the difficulty up twice already, not sure what it's on now but i'm only level two.

>>8031881
Looks pretty reasonable to me. You specialized in Magic, right? Anyway, Long Blade + Bound Longsword can do you pretty well.

For the Unarmored skill, mind that it's broken in the base game, and will do nothing at all unless you're wearing some piece of Light, Medium, or Heavy armor (the oldschool approach was to put on just a single leather bracer or a pair of boots or something). The Codepatch, and I think Open Morrowind, lets you fix this.

>>8031894
i'm wearing a light armor helm, dont you see my goofy hat

>>8031958
Somehow, I didn't. Take good care of it, it brings luck. Probably.

>>8020456
I legitimately do not understand the appeal of this game in any capacity. It is sinfully ugly. The environments look like a mix between the shanty towns in Water World and some kind of depressing pain-scape filled brown mushrooms. The combat is stiffer and more repetitive than games which preceeded it by nearly a decade, made worse by the DnD-style mechanics which make it possible to "miss" 100 attacks in a row when you're stsnding in front of a manlet and shoving a sharp object into his chest at point blank range. The color palette is drab and the atmosphere is non-existent; I don't even feel like I'm in another world, I feel like I'm on a rainy car ride through the Poconos on a fall day. Say what you want about Oblivion, that game was actually fun, and at least it looked nice. Morrowind is complete and utter garbage.

>>8029198
I played morrowind for like ten years before I learned how the leveling system works. It really doesn't matter at all.

>>8028416
>At least with the argonian homeworld they have a interesting species with a log of possible nuances to base the game around...
Way too optimistic. We both know it's going to be bog-standard western fantasy shit again.

>>8031635
Well, depending on class, you might have to rest pretty frequently. But I meant that comment in the sense of "a new player, who doesn't realize that it might actually be counter-productive to level-up, contrary to common sense". They might wonder why they are getting their ass beat harder and harder (the game isn't particularly casual friendly at the start already) when their character is leveling up, if they are only leveling via non-combat skill-ups. Obviously, someone familiar with the system would work around it without a problem.

>>8032226
I don't understand your complaint about the atmosphere, some areas are extremely evocative and well-designed. There are also graphics packs you can install if the visuals matter that much to you. The music is good (although not particularly varied), but the selling points to me are the rich lore / setting and clever writing. The gameplay does mostly suck, I just tolerate it in order to experience the world. I'm only halfway through the game, and while I'm sure I will savor all the rest, I doubt I would ever replay it because of the gameplay.

How did they capture lightning in a bottle with this game?

>waiting for Tamriel Rebuilt

It has its issues (quest design closer to Skyrim than Morrowind, a barren northeastern part of the map, the fact that the main story is and will always be entirely set on Vvardenfell) but I just want to play Morrowind for the first time again

>>8032505

It's the only game in the series to reward players who give a shit about the lore. The goal of the main quest is equally about finding out what happened on Red Mountain as it is about saving Tamriel.

>>8032226
nobody cares about you and your determination to hate a 20 year old game that will never get another game made like it again
leave us to our grief. you can go enjoy your games that all play the same

>>8032978
you're never getting another morrowind because nobody would purposely repeat the same mistake twice

Toonami morrowind review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-uh2CPlTx8
Tom the robot didn't like it but the computer AI lady did

>>8032984
ok. tell the cops

>>8020537
Gonna kill this dude.

>>8026394
>he uses the Alex Jones mod instead of the Tim Allen mod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF-XMtNEudQ

>>8033123
Tom radiating some major alpha energy there. I had no idea Toonami did reviews, I don't remember seeing those on TV.
The combat really does bring the game down to a significant degree though, and it's a shame. Same goes for VtMB and PS:T, even Spec Ops: The Line to some degree. Obviously it goes double the entire JRPG genre. Mankind is cursed to have precious few heavy narrative experiences with strong combat.