/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8009875
>Solution: follow camera bolted to the hip.
RE died with 4.

>reshape the series, win back the fans
>ends up killing classic RE forever

>>8009875
classic RE dead forever.

RE 4 is the best third person shooter ever made still in 2021.

I guess it was all worth it in the end.

>>8009875
>Were fans also bored of the old RE style?
No. Only casual fags got bored. Which is why they turned RE into call of duty. To win the casuals over

>>8009875
RE4 is genuinely one of the best games ever crafted of any generation so I’d say it was a fair trade

No one was bored, people wanted to see a proper ending after Code Veronica's cliffhanger. RE4 killed the series in both gameplay and lore. Even RE 3.5 would've been much better. 7th gen brown and grey soulless western shooters can be 100% attributed to RE4.

I'll always say the bigger issue with Resident Evil wasn't so much that RE4 was as good and popular as it was, but that after RE4, the whole fucking team, who previously made every other mainline RE left Capcom.

They *were* working on RE5 for a good two years before their work was thrown out and was then replaced by work done by the RE4 PS2 port team's work.

whats so great about RE4?
over the shoulder shooter? nothing special
kung fu kicks and shit? meh
the enemies and lore? meh
mediocre at best

>>8011140
re4 was not cod you actual brainlet

>>8011128
Cold Fear was a better RE4.

Amazingly hot and unique takes here in this thread

>>8011223
Honestly can't tell if this is sarcasm

>>8009875
CV, REmake, and Zero all flopped. Whether the fans were bored with fixed camera angle games is a moot point. No company on Earth is going to keep pouring resources into developing games that don't sell.

>>8011270
CV didn't flop, the Gamecube games did, CV was generally considered to be the best RE until 4, which is why all the contrarian faggots who swarm this board always try to call it the worst fixed camera angle game.

>>8011270
REmake only flopped because it was exclusive to a shit, low selling system, same goes to 0. CV sold well enough. Stop cherrypicking faggot.

>>8011283
CV sold incredibly well for a DC game, and CV X sold 1.4m on PS2.

>>8011283
REmake didn't flop. It sold around expectations, not incredibly well, but it sold well enough.

0's poorer sales were what pushed for a new direction. The fucked up part is that 0 didn't sell too much less than REmake, but Capcom's expectations were higher since it was a new game and not a remake.

But it's not exactly fair to blame the Gamecube for this, as Viewtiful Joe sold WORSE on the PS2 than on the Gamecube.

>>8011189
>after RE4, the whole fucking team, who previously made every other mainline RE left Capcom.
The people who worked on the PS1-era games were gone long before that.

>>8011193
never understood it either, I'm 31 and got re4 when I was in my teens
Got somewhere up to the castle and got bored of it

>>8011193
>whats so great about RE4?
it's a good game
>over the shoulder shooter? nothing special
first game to do it really, really well
>kung fu kicks and shit? meh
fun
>the enemies and lore? meh
oh no muh lore isn't that good noooo
>mediocre at best
wrong

>>8011193
Conker had better gunplay

>>8011393
if you like fucking stupid controls

>>8011393
nevermind Conker, Max Payne came before RE4 and destroys it in terms of gameplay

>>8011140
RE was always for casuals. it's a zombie game.

>>8011420
Zombiez is a good descriptor of RE fans

>>8009875
>Were fans also bored of the old RE style?
You won't get a straight answer here but yes. By the time of Code Veronica it was pretty roundly agreed that the formula was getting stale. REmake revitilised that somewhat but Zero went back and killed the appetite.

>>8011435
A lot of people also wondered what the point of remaking a game that was only a few years old at the time was though. It was a neat enough game, but it really felt like they were completely out of ideas if they had to resort to something like that.

>>8009879

100% this

>>8011420
Maybe thats even right. But at least RE1 has traces of real games in its dna.

>>8009879
yup

>>8011319
>Viewtiful Joe sold WORSE on the PS2 than on the Gamecube.
Thats because there was a huge amount of other PS2 games of comparable quality. Outside of Nintendo franchises there was not very much going on with the Gamecube and the majority of its games were marketed directly to children under the age of 10. The number of "badass" games on the GC was so small that anything that isn't Barney Sunshine Friends Camp: Flowers and Candy Edition was going to sell because what the fuck other choice is there? People still cling to Super Smash Brothers like its anything but a silly clown game full of bright colors designed for small children because its the only thing close to a fighting game the console had that wasn't a port.

>>8009875
reminder that disliking RE4 is a sign that you're a friendless faggot who will never touch a woman's vagina

>>8011370
>openly admits its shit
>denies later in the same post
Retard.

>>8011128
>RE 4 is the best third person shooter ever made still in 2021.
QTE says no

>>8011128
Considering Gears of War, kill.switch, The Suffering, Rogue Trooper, and legions of better games exist, no.

>>8009875
In all honesty, this sucks, Capcom could have made a final classic RE game and move on, but instead they just decided to kill the series with a game that had nothing to do with the other titles.

>>8011331
The PSone games as well as REmake and RE4 were generally by the same exact staff, Capcom Production Studio 4, who in whole no longer existed after RE4.

>>8012701
Yeah it’s a real shame they made one of the best games of all time instead. What an embarrassment.

>>8009875
The short answer is yes. REmake did renew interest in the classic RE style somewhat but didn’t sell well enough to make a major impact. RE4 acted as a soft reboot that anyone could enjoy without knowing any of the previous lore.

>>8012605
Gears of War may have been the industry standard for TPS games after RE4, but I don’t know if I’d say it’s massively better outside of MP. Single player for the first game was pretty bland.
Something like Dead Space arguably was leagues better than both.

>>8012483
That’s a great way of describing the GC, especially with the NA release of Donkey Konga. Seriously what the fuck were they thinking with that tracklist, with Happy Birthday to You and Bingo being mixed with Blink 182

>>8013197
The main issue with Dead Space is that you really only need a couple of the weapons to kick ass. RE4’s weapons are more fun to experiment with and try new ones you previously passed over.

>>8013171
Why couldn't they just "made one of the best games of all time" with another name?

>>8013197
The fact that Dead Space and every other TPS switched to move and shoot FPS-like controls means RE4 gets to hold its special niche as the true tank TPS, with perfectly designed enemies and combat to make it fun in a rail shooter offshoot kind of way instead of an FPS offshoot way.
I like Dead Space a lot also though.

>>8011128
>RE 4 is the best third person shooter ever made still in 2021.
>QTE
>escort mission

>>8013478
Because big name franchises sell more than unknown ones.

>>8013491
Name a single instance where escorting Ashley is actually a major impediment.

>>8013509
You could argue the Water Room, but with a semi auto sniper, it's easy.

>>8013043
As far as REmake goes, Mikami and the Kobayashi quoted in the OP are the only two with credits on both it and RE1, and Kobayashi was just a programmer on 1 and 2. All of the other big creative voices of RE1 like Kenichi Iwao, Tokuro Fujiwara, and Hideki Kamiya were not involved. The meme about it being made by the same exact team "the way they always wanted to" or whatever is 100% false.

>>8013509
it's an escort mission, I don't care how better it is than other escort missions
it's like saying it's least foul smelling turd ever, it's still a turd and the game would be better without it

>>8013525
1 to REmake, not so much. But staff from 2 and 3, and Code Veronica especially were all still very much working at Studio 4.

Infact, Code Veronica's director Hiroki Kato was even a writer for God Hand, and Vanquish. Shame he's a farmer now.

>>8013530
Ashley is fun

>>8013558

>>8011193
Adaptive difficulty
Replayability with the number of weapons
Limb based damage

>>8009875
>winning back the fans
What the fuck? They weren't losing RE players and it was already the big best seller. Devs getting bored is legit, the players were not yet bored.

>>8013906
3 didn't sell as much as 2. Code veronica didn't sell much. Remake and zero didn't sell a lot. It was on a downward trend.

>>8013947
The Outbreak games didn't get exactly shining reviews either. And games like Haunting Ground were not as renowned as they are now.

>>8011128
Brute Force and Socom 1/2 shit all over re4

>>8014256
lol

>>8009879
Didn't like how linear it is compared to the PS1 games hell it's more linear than Code Veronica

>>8009879
>muh fixed camera makes it more scary
>RE died with 4.
No it didn't

>>8009875
On another note, i think RE4 had a lot of momentum in it's very early opening sections of the game with the villagers, barricading yourself in that house in the first section of the village and having the villagers breaking in was some of the most truly terrifying stuff, watching them all coordinate like that felt really new at the time and i had only seen AI doing that stuff in the past with MGS games with guards on alert phases. Reminds me of another similarly great moment in the opening for a game called Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth, which released that same year as RE4.
Once you start getting out of the village and even past the castle, that's where the game dropped off a cliff in it's horror aspects imo.
They should have made the game solely based around escaping the villagers within large village sections, because that was actually when the game was at it's most scary and tense in moments.

>>8011128
>>8012605
>>8013197
Max Payne 3 is where TPS peaked and that's a fact

>>8014717
>Max Payne 3 is where TPS peaked
First two were better, the way Payne 3 controls feels far more sluggish than the first two did.
it doesn't feel as snappy in response to inputs and therefore feels less faster paced as a result of it.

>>8011429
What confuses me is they scream and shout and rant how every new game is not like the one they love as if a new title instantly and automagically turns their beloved game disc into dust which is awfully autistic. If one hates RE8? Fine, but that doesn't suddenly cause your copy of RE2 to catch fire.

>>8013947
>Remake and zero didn't sell a lot
I guess it had nothing to do with them being chained to the Gamecube, right?

>>8013625
Adaptive difficulty fucking sucks

>>8013509
cute girl following you
protecting her
occasionally get a panty shot or two

HURRR DURRR ESCORT MISSION SUCKS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

what a bunch of fags

>>8015313
>Ashley’s little celebratory fist pump when you nail a shot
CUTE

>>8014659
>Once you start getting out of the village and even past the castle, that's where the game dropped off a cliff in it's horror aspects imo
I like the castle part but I think this is one the biggest problems of the game. The game changes too much when you get to the castle. You're in the village, escaping and surviving against the ganados and suddenly you get to the castle and right away you get fucking catapults and a cannon. It almost feels like a different game

Another problem is the balance.Granades are too fucking OP and you get a lot of it, you also get too much money, to the point where you can buy most the upgrades and still be able to buy a rocket launcher for every fucking boss to instakill them. You also never run out of ammo unless you are awful at playing.

You guys are playing this game without continuing but loading from a save after death right? RE4 and every game after rewards you with more ammo and treasure each time you die making enemies and bosses feel easier because they give you more grenades or shotgun ammo.

>>8016130
>not playing on professional

>>8016143
At this point I'm not sure if professional it's actually harder when you finally know the game. In professional, enemies are insanely easy to predict because they always do the same shit all the time. Adaptive difficulty makes it harder to predict what enemies are gonna do because you don't when the game switches difficulty, and professional has adaptive difficulty turned off

>>8014761
>controls feels far more sluggish than the first two did.
The movement, absolutely but the gunplay is extremely good and snappy as a matter of fact it was so good they had to nerf it in GTAV

>>8010143

How could they destroy something so beautiful

>>8009875
If you consider that the three previous REs were:
>a flawed game with a horrible story (CV)
>a remake of a game from 6 years ago but intentionally clunkier (REmake)
>a shit game (RE0)
It's understandable that people were ready for a change.
And yeah they made six classic REs all about killing zombies with a fixed camera and tank controls. RE4 didn't need to be as drastic as it did but the devs probably thought that they might as well go all-out.

Honestly i hope they just do a FF7R treatment to REmake 4, in the sense of just being a complete reimagining of the game.
Make it based within taking place all around the village and build new sections for it, just reshape the game from the castle onward.
I don't give about shit about it remaining faithful at all, because i think the game could be objectively improved with those steps. Make the entire experience resemble the opening section from the village at all times by escaping Ganado and RE4 would have been amazing.
Despite being an action horror, the game should be pushed back closer to survival with making ammo and money to buy stuff from the merchant much more scarce. Would definitely help out with the horror aspects, when you know you can't abuse mechanics.

>>8011193
The variety of different combat situations mixed with QTEs. It constantly throws something new at you. Also has weapon variety and upgrade system that gives you a good degree of freedom in how you want to approach combat.

>>8009879
indeed it did. 4 and even 5 were fun but real resident evil did die with 4. revelations 1 and 2 were also fun but also linear.

>>8011370
why lie so much?

>>8009875
>Were fans also bored of the old RE style?

Exclusive GameCube remake and Zero sold like shit

>Oooh no fans are tired of the formula, let's turn resident evil 4 into dino crisis 2.

remake and Zero would've sold millions and millions if released on PS2 .

>>8017645
Even if that had been the case, the classic RE formula had been milked for all it was worth at that point. Sure REmake and 0 looked great but it was largely the same old gameplay.

>>8009875
They really should have made it a separate IP, the static camera was more adapted for horror but re4 is one of the best tps i played, shame that the general quality went downhill after that

>>8017645
No they wouldn't have lol.

>>8009875
They shouldn't have pumped out so many games within the first few years of the game's life. Capcom is obsessed with yearly releases and it kills any life whatever the series has.

>>8018335
Considering other RE games did on PS consoles, yes they probably would have. GC was for babbies who wanted gamers like Wind Waker and Sunshine.

>>8018335
Capcom and mikami bunch of idiots

>RE fanbase were on Playstation
>Dude let's release these games exclusive to GC
>Oh no the games sold like shit why is that?
>Guess fans are tired of the formula

No idiots fans weren't tired, fans had a PS2 not your fucking console for toddlers.

>>8018343
They ported Code Veronica to PS2 and it sold like shit. Capcom probably figured it wasn't worth the effort to port Remake or Zero.

>>8012605
Having tried out Gears Of War, I was not very impressed with it.

>>8009875
Yes. The amount of revisionism people have about the classic style RE is retarded because anyone who was alive 20 years ago remembers how tired the tank control + fixed angle style had gotten. And it wasn't just RE; every survival horror game used it and it got stale by the early 2000s.

>>8011193
>over the shoulder shooter? nothing special
Zoom zoom detected. There's a reason RE4's OTS mechanics were copied almost immediately. It felt like a revelation at the time.

>>8014717
No it fucking isn't >>>/v/
>>8016672
>but the gunplay is extremely good and snappy
Nope. Also not retro

>abloobloo modern games suck, they're all samey ubisoft rip-off trash
>wahwah I needed 20 more trashy RE games with the exact same mechanic, continuing the same overstretched story
Fuck /vr/.

>>8018553
>modern games suck, they're all samey ubisoft rip-off trash
Agree

>>8018530

>>8009875
If they'd released RE4 but fucking called it "Lurking Inside" or something (changing Leon for Joe Mandude and whatnot to make it a different game franchise), rather than trying to cling to the Biohazard name's tits for money; it would literally just be regarded as one of the best games ever by everyone.
But now it's just that poor far cousin that has to sit on the family table, eat casserole and smile for the group picture because he isn't allowed to walk away, even though he could be getting his dick sucked at home right now. Then people get to go "but muh RE" like it makes this fucking masterpiece lesser or guilty of the series "derailing" somehow, and it's creation questionable.

>REEEEEEE change my diaper

>>8011435
This. People dont consider that it was indeed getting stale for the time, that was the general perception. RE4 was something new and exciting, even for non GC owners. I dont think the saga would have survived if it would have keep going the same route. Times change.

>>8019463
>I dont think the saga would have survived if it would have keep going the same route.
RE would have wound up exactly like Silent Hill if they didn't do something to change things up.

>>8019482
>RE would have wound up exactly like Silent Hill if they didn't do something to change things up
Destroyed by western devs

>>8013185
Bro... you never had to know any of the lore to enjoy any Resident Evil game or pretty much any other good game, casuals and even many hardcore people don't care about that. There's lore people, sure, but they're not the majority, I myself loved these games and didn't give a shit about the story and find the word 'lore' itself kind of cringe, although I don't judge others.

>>8017547
Hope who does it? Platinum can't and Tango doesn't even seem to exist most of the time, while Capcom is all about making 'big hits' with their main series now.

>>8018375
Resident Evil
>Almost 6 million copies on Playstation
>Code Veronica
>900k copies
>Fans weren't sick of it!
Okay.
Resident Evil 4 on PS2
>Over 2 million copies

>>8019427
RE4 is considered one of the greatest games ever, a few people whining on anime forums doesn't change that

Resident evil 4 is what fallout 3 or skyrim did for fallout and elder scrolls series. casual garbage for normies.

>>8009879
:^)

>>8019834
This. Always keep in mind that 4chan is a whiny minority. They just happen to like whining about the same shit every single day.

>>8020139
>They just happen to like whining about the same shit every single day.
Pre-programmed behaviour as the algorithm has not updated yet.

>>8009875
Whenever a dev says that the "fans" were tired of a game series following a certain forumula, what they really mean is the devs were tired of making those games. 343i tried to pull the same shit with halo 4 & 5, to massive fan backlash.

>>8020173
Who dispersed the devious plan to program people to hate on RE4? The Tank-Control Masons?
>>8020194
Or... sometimes they're telling the truth and things lose momentum even if they're still good, especially with changes in the world, like platforms, attention spans, etc... Genres of music fall out of popularity even if there is still great music made in them.

>>8009875
The revisionist history and gaslighting these clowns in the gaming industry do is so mind boggling that I can only assume these people must be demonically possessed. RE prior to 4 was strong as hell and still selling plenty well enough. It may have slowed down a bit but the formula was still strong and horror games were copying RE all the time still. I will admit though that changing RE's formula still worked out for the best since RE4 pretty much is the game that shooters themselves then went on to copy. So RE as a series has been a very influential series.

It popularized horror games, then it was a huge influence on the TPS genre with RE4.

>>8020227
>Who dispersed the devious plan to program people to hate on RE4? The Tank-Control Masons?
Basically yes. The classicfags hated RE4 on release but when Remake got made they took that as all the validation required to prove once and for all RE4 is the worst game ever. The fact that basically every other RE game since has been more like 4 than 1, 2 or 3 has only made them angrier and more vocal.

>>8020243
What did these 'demonic possessed clowns' do to you exactly? They made games people loved and then didn't make exactly what you say you want one time and they're 'BAD BAD MEN! FUCK THEM! THEY'RE GASLIGHTING ME! THEY'RE DEMONS!' I know, it's internet and it's this site, so it should be taken with a grain of salt, but on the surface it's still disgusting behaviour towards these people as if they did anything at all to harm you. The sales show that the series was quickly losing momentum with
>6 Million
>3.5 Million
>2.9 Million
>1.3 Million
>1.2 Million
And then they made a game that completely revitalized sales and was named game of the year and one of the best games ever, yet they're terrible people and should have stuck to the model of making the same game even when sales slip below AAA game level.

Remove the castle and island section, refocus back the game back into the village, even if it means rewriting the story.
Simple as.

>>8019427
>it would literally just be regarded as one of the best games ever by everyone.
It already is retard. A few literal autists crying it doesn't have a fixed camera won't change anything

>>8011217
not even remotely close

>>8009875
>we talked about reshaping the series and winning back the fans
>as well as winning over new fans who never thought they would play a Final Fantasy game

>>8020336
Not retro, and that game was very good in terms of its base, the problem is that the team was taken away and changed several times in favor of FFXIII, and to release it they had to scrap over half of the content and rush out an unfinished game. That being said it's still better than most current shit. Similar story to actual 'retro' games such as FFVIII and Xenogears, while both were probably better than FFXIII and FFXV.

>>8020245
>The fact that basically every other RE game since has been more like 4
And those games were terrible

>>8019427
>If they'd released RE4 but fucking called it "Lurking Inside" or something (changing Leon for Joe Mandude and whatnot to make it a different game franchise), rather than trying to cling to the Biohazard name's tits for money; it would literally just be regarded as one of the best games ever by everyone.
I dunno, Capcom made a lot of great games that went under the radar and underperformed in sales. I don't doubt it would be loved by Gamecube fans, but I find hard to believe it would be as big as it is today.

>>8020245
>The classicfags hated RE4 on release but when Remake got made
...you know REmake came out before RE4, right?
You have the entire internet at your fingertips, dozens of search engines at your disposal, you have no excuse.

>>8021243
A lot of retards think the 2015 re-release was the first release.

>>8020245
REmake came out in 2002 and RE4 came out in 2005, you absolute retard.

RE4 discussion brings out the cream of the crop retards from both side every single time.

>>8021243
>>8021336
>>8021340
He also claimed the 'classic fags' hated RE4 but the vast majority of people seem to have started with RE1 or 2 and like them as well as 4.

>>8023430
The whole prison hall was a weird moment.

>>8014659
I found the dark night time once you get to a church I think and the castle a lot scarier. The village was the most tense for sure though. The last part was the weakest and least scary though.

I never was scared by the other RE games before 4 but 4 was hard to play sometimes.

>>8009875
Let's put it in perspective. I had a Dreamcast with the 10/10 game called Soul Calibur before Resident Evil 3 was even released on fucking PS1. The game had no hype whatsoever no matter what the tank control fags will tell you. None. Even Code Veronica sucked ass. RE4 changed the game. It's one of the best games of all time.

>>8014256
Socom deez nuts nigga

>>8009879
>replace suspenseful schlock with action schlock
RE died with 2

>Were fans also bored of the old RE style?
No, only the creators were.