/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7982073
Never? It's the peak of the series.

God Tier:
Sonic 1

High Tier:
Sonic CD

Mid Tier:
Sonic & Knuckles

Low Tier:
Sonic 3

Shit Tier:
Sonic 2

>>7982105
Based taste. Fuck pig murkan sonic games.

>>7982073
Ever since retards tried to be contrarian like >>7982105

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the peak of video games.

>>7982105

Sonic Mania is the best game. Then Sonic Rush on DS. The Genesis games are fun for a few playthroughs, with the best one being Sonic 2 because it has Tales and the best minigames. Sonic 3 is bad and And Knipples is better but still not as good as 2.

>>7982073
ecelebs and IGN are reputable sources and I base all my opinions on what paid shills tell me to think. Sonic was never good.

>>7982178
>best game
>80% of the content is recycled from previous titles
>that shitty true ending tying it into fucking Forces

>>7982112
Directed by based Japs. Seethe, 3rdwurlder.

>>7982194
This

>>7982549
The American taint ruins 2 and 3&K.

1 and CD will forever remain the only pure Sonic games, and the best ones at that.

>>7982073
it's fucking shit

>>7982073
>Okay so since when is this a "bad game"?

Since always.

Every popular game is bad on /vr and if they aren't they are overrated. No exceptions.

>>7982617
>t. African taste
1 is great, CD is shit outside of the soundtracks and OP/EDs.

Sonic 3&K is hated primarily by people who didn’t own them for whatever reason and need to preserve their worldview that whichever Sonic they did own was actually the best one. In reality each Genesis Sonic game feels like an alpha build compared to the next game in the series, but Sonic 2 fans for example will literally look at Sonic’s sprite with the eye bleeding into the cheek or flatly shittier gradients and tell you with a straight face that it’s better than Sonic 3’s

>>7982178
Sonic Mania is most similar to 3&K on the whole so… not really sure what logic you operate on

>>7982629
Zoomies should kill themselves then.

>>7982073
Sonic peaked on 2.

>>7982105
>God Tier:
>Sonic 1
Based.

>>7982819
Not with those bonus stages it didn't

Anyone that says S3&K is "bad" are contrarian fuckwits.

>>7982073
Since sonic 2 fans couldn't cope that this was a better game.

>>7982073
since they came up with the concept for marble garden

>>7982073
Its not a bad game, but people have come to realize that Sonic 2 offers a more cleaner Sonic experience.
Sonic 3 just feels a bit too cluttered.

>>7982073
Not a bad game, just not the amazing game that everyone seems to think it is. It’s a B+ game

>>7983173
I found 2 more bland and frustrating between the somewhat poor level design it has between the unfair deaths and more linear design as you Kostya just run left to right. Also the special stages suck

>>7982093

>>7982194
>pretending like they didn’t change the level layout for the second acts.
Do you think levels are all aesthetics and nothing else?

>>7982073
Its bad if you're shit at it, apparently.

>>7982073
Since you connected Sonic 3 to Sonic & Knuckles
https://youtu.be/SBTAGVnfXAw

>>7982627
>be me
>be child
>encounter barrel
>try jumping
>it doesn't work
>try pressing up and down on the d-pad
>it works

If the barrel filtered you, you seriously need to git gud

>>7982105
Based. The older I get, the more I think this. Though CD is so different that I have a hard time ranking it relative to 1.

>>7982637
>CD
>shit
Sounds like someone got filtered by the Workbench.

>>7982073
The levels are too long and Sonic's sprite is wack.

>>7983995
The game on general has atrocious level design

CD is the game with the least bad levels. Every other game is made up of around 50% trash mixed in with the good stuff.

>>7984115
I think a lot of people run into this issue with older versions of the game (especially depending on region, if I remember correctly), where trying to change time periods almost felt unfair: you'd get a good speed going and then ALMOST get there just to get stopped by a rock in your path. The newest ports really fixed this and tightened the mechanic up. Aside from that, I think it's more an issue of expectations, as Sonic CD is certainly very different and even more abstract, but I think they made some very deliberate decisions that paid off.

>>7982819
Not with every level after oil ocean it didn't. The game is unplayable the last 25% without memorizing the entire stages.

>>7984532
If you can't memorize a few stages from a simple children's videogame, you are worthless. Kys.

>>7983895
Jumping makes it move and looks like its just a matter of timing. This puts you on the wrong track. Also this is the only object in either S3 or S&K where Sonic's controls affect that object without sonic being locked to it. He is just standing freely on the barrel, there is no reason to think sonic's controls would effect the barrel, usually in games when there is control scheme switch like standing on a vehicle, it locks out your normal movements.

people really like piece of dogshit, sonic 1?

>>7984719
what's the matter, does babby need spindash?

>>7984542
I shouldn't be forced to memorize 25% of "the best game in a series" because of shit level design and shit enemy placement.

>>7984575
Cope. I figured this shit out as a kid in like 3 seconds.

>>7982690
Not that anon but Sonic Mania is closer to Sonic & Knuckles' level design (which is like Sonic 2's with more exploration), not Sonic 3's. There is a distinction, 3 leans harder into intrusive gimmicks. However its bosses are awfully put together and worse than both games'.

>>7984823
So would a button mashing retard, I am not sure there is really much conclusion you can draw from whether people figured this out or not.

>>7982105
Based. I played through Sonic 2 and 3 and felt done with it, but still occasionally go through Sonic 1.

>>7982105
>>7982112
>>7982838
>>7983972
>>7984868
No need to samefag and expose your shit taste auster-kun.

>>7982627

It's fucking shit for filtering me as a kid BEFORE MY FUCKING FAVORITE STAGE ICE CAP ZONE ; _____;

and these fights filtered me as an adult

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKF4fMFK9M0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZympvDwYs4

no but really despite me sucking at bosses i was a whiz at blue sphere stages

nothing to this day gets my heart pounding then an O SHIT from a red sphere

>>7984845
So you are saying a retard, as you put it, could figure it out, but you could not. Is that what you are saying?

>>7985118
When solving any problem one uses their preexisting knowledge and experience to narrow the solution space. If something is outside the solution space then it will never be tried. So yes it is true that a retard could solve something a more capable person could not.

>>7983895
this but it took me several days to figure it out
used to rush as hard as i could to the barrel so i had longer time to think

>Angel Island Zone
good
>Hydrocity Zone
good
>Marble Garden Zone
bad-meh
>Carnival Night Zone
good
>IceCap Zone
good
>Launch Base Zone
meh-good
>Mushroom Hill Zone
meh-good
>Flying Battery Zone
meh-good
>Sandopolis Zone
meh
>Lava Reef Zone
kino
>Hidden Palace Zone
kino 2
>Sky Sanctuary Zone
nice but a bit too easy for what its meant to be
>Death Egg Zone
pretty good final stage
>The Doomsday Zone
epic ending

>>7985808
Agreed almost 100% except I think Mushroom Hill is awesome. Only Lava Reef really beats it on main stages.

>>7985808
I actually thought Marble garden wasn't that bad. I enjoyed those spinning top things and the changing terrain

>>7984880
Cope. Sonic 2 is a rushed piece of shit filled with half-baked ideas.

>>7982105
Sonic CD is objectively a bad game and anyone who likes it is nothing more than a hipster.
Mania is objectively the best sonic game ever made. It's not even a contest.

>>7986141
>Mania is objectively the best sonic game ever made. It's not even a contest.
The bosses are fucking terrible even if the stages are absolutely the peak of Sonic design. That brings Mania down quite a few pegs.

>>7985920
>Agreed almost 100% except I think Mushroom Hill is awesome.
Not him, but the only thing I feel that keeps MH from being awesome is the pulley gimmick that needlessly brings the pace of the stage to a halt.

>>7986141
I don't like the look of mania, though I am not sure if my dislike is genuine or its just the fact that I have a strong hatred for anything new.

Why the hell did Sega decide not to implement the drop dash in Sonic 3?

I like this game, but the first half has some really boring zones. Marble Garden and Carnival Night are a snoozefest for me.

CD and Sonic 1 don't know what's good about Sonic yet so I forgive them. I don't know what excuse to give to Chaotix, though.

>>7982073
This was the first Sonic game I remember playing all the way through. It's not bad but it suffers from the same problem that every Sonic game does: Wild inconsistency in stages.

In every Sonic game there's always a handful of bad zones which is especially bad because the games are so short, meaning most of your play time is devoted to bad levels. Only Sonic 2 is really front-to-back consistent. CD's not bad either.

>>7982093
fpbp

It's not a bad game, quite the opposite. The problem is in the design of characters; Sonic was at its peak of popularity in the west and SEGA decided to gave the characters a look more similar to the american comics, and thus to abandon the japanese manga style, in short, whit this game Sonic was officially westernized. It's not objectively a bad thing, again the game is good, but is a change in the atmosphere and many fan didn't liked it, also they started to fill the franchise with too many obnoxious side characters, trying to replicate the success they had with Tails.
For me the main characters should have been only Sonic, Tails and Amy

>>7982073
Sonic 1 was a good game, Sonic 2 was better than 1 at its best and pace breaking at its worst, Sonic 3 was less "gotta go fast" and more "basic bitch platformer", S&K was just more of 3 with best part being able to play as knuckles and cheese through 1-3.
Sonic Spinball was a game everyone played until they burst a blood vessel.

>>7986279
That's fair but at least you only have to do it like twice. The only times I ever even touch the pulley are when you go up to that section with two vine traps and two flying bots and then again right before the boss at the end of the level. It it was more prevalent, it'd be a lot more annoying.

>>7982627
i am the type to get stuck 15 times each time i play a zelda game and i found this out myself

Was just looking at this video and this is how all 2D Sonic should play from now on. You get even more of a sense of speed plus the physics is still intact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5-sFM5L2OM

>>7982194
>that shitty true ending tying it into fucking Forces
Encore Mode begins with Sonic coming out of the exact same portal. Fuck what Iizuka says, Sonic went through the portal and just ended up on Angel Island again.

>>7984163
Nah, CD is the game with the most bad levels. Sonic 1 doesn't really have any incredible levels, but Marble Zone is the only outright bad one (I'm in the minority and actually really enjoy Labyrinth Zone, but even then that's only two levels). Sonic 2 does definitely drop in quality once you get to Oil Ocean, but I think Oil Ocean itself is the only legitimately terrible level. S3&K doesn't have a single bad level outside of Marble Garden Zone. Every Mania level is good. CD on the other hand has only one good level, and it's Stardust Speedway

>>7987237
marble garden is beautiful, has great music, a unique boss and has those fun slopes and spinners. how is it bad exactly, outside of "negative aura"?

>>7984840
Never really thought about it, but as much as I like Mania, I'm just now realizing you're right about the bosses. They focus way too much on spectacle and gimmicks, and at least half of the bosses involve just standing around until you can actually deal damage.

>>7985018
Nice blog post and reddit spacing

>>7986528
Chaotix is one of those games that I recognize as terrible but still really enjoy playing

>>7987239
It's got a ridiculous amount of stop and go. So many things break the pace of the level, from those statue faces that shoot arrows to the spinning top thing to the wheels you have to spindash. It turns the level into "run to the next thing you have to interact with, come to a complete stop, and then interact with it, rinse and repeat". I also don't care for the aesthetics and music compared to most of the other levels (CNZ's music and visuals are worse, but the level is more fun to play). I agree about the boss though, definitely one of the coolest ones in the game.

>>7984840
Like what, the cylinder? I think they have about the same ratio. S&K has Sandopolis which is the most anti-core gameplay in the whole bit, as well as Mushroom Hill’s weird pulley machines, etc.

>>7982838
>>7983972
>>7984868
that word really has become the 4chan upvote, hasn't it

>>7987436
Sadly. Still better than "red-pilled".

>>7987005
2 has weak level design

>>7986138
Can you elaborate? I like to hear your take on ranking each level like this post >>7985808

>>7985808
Flying Battery is kino

>>7988443
Well, I’m not sure how useful my ranking would be as my argument kind of hinges on taking the game as a whole. It’s definitely no secret Sonic 2 was rushed to meet deadlines. So many ideas were thrown around during its development like time travel, or a greater focus on the Super Sonic story. They clearly wanted to go big with the game, and you can tell because they crammed a ton of levels into the game that are frankly just boring and forgettable. I was being hyperbolic in my earlier post, but I truly think Sonic 2 suffered from a lack of direction.

The first half of the game is relatively strong, ending with Hill Top Zone. My big issue with the levels is that so many of them lack any defining gimmicks that aren’t just some variant of a platform moving up and down. Even disregarding that, the way you navigate the majority of the levels (especially later) is pretty much always the same, with only minor geographical quirks like Hill Top’s slightly more vertical nature. Every single level in the original Sonic was COMPLETELY different, and not just in aesthetic: the way you play the game is fundamentally changed as you progress through the levels. Not really the case with Sonic 2, and maybe you could argue that this is just the natural evolution of the series after Sonic Team found out what makes Sonic good, but I find it boring compared to 1 and CD. On top of that, the game has twice the number of zones as the first game, but it feels like you barely spend any quality time in them. Then the one you DO spend a considerable amount of time with is fucking horrible. I do think the final bosses are some of the best in the series, though. And of course the game is great aesthetically.

>>7985153
>When solving any problem one uses their preexisting knowledge and experience to narrow the solution space.
That pre-existing knowledge should then quickly become "jumping doesn't work". If you have a reasonable degree of intelligence, of course.

>>7988442
>2 has weak level design
You're indisputably retarded.

>>7986141
While Mania is pretty good, I have to disagree with you on CD. CD is pretty fun to play, it's level design can be annoying but once you memorize the levels and get a good rhythm on the best places to time travel and where the Robot Generators are, it's pretty comfy to just play through and achieve good futures. Hell, it's one of the few Sonic games I regularly do replays of (the other ones being Sonic 3 and Unleashed).
I think if you play through CD like any other Sonic game and collect the time stones, you're doing a disservice to the game and will naturally not like it because the levels are built to dissuade you from just going full-tilt through them.
I will say the game starts being waning after Quartz Quadrant. That zone is pretty boring and is way too flat. Stardust Speedway is kino, but Wacky Workbench is hell if you don't know what you're doing.

it's not bad, but Sonic 2 is better

>>7986138
Why does this post give me deja vu

>>7982093
fpbp

>>7985808
>Angel Island Zone
great
>Hydrocity Zone
great
>Marble Garden Zone
not great
>Carnival Night Zone
wretched
>IceCap Zone
not good
>Launch Base Zone
feels like a sanic hack
>Mushroom Hill Zone
decent
>Flying Battery Zone
fucking based
>Sandopolis Zone
sucks
>Lava Reef Zone
The penultimate level
>Hidden Palace Zone
based af
>Sky Sanctuary Zone
agreed, a little short, but fucking based
>Death Egg Zone
good
>The Doomsday Zone
oh yeah

>>7982073
It never was.

>>7989597
I disagree that 2 is better

PLAY CD
PLAY CD
PLAY CD

>>7992215
too busy playing Mania

>>7992215
Why, so I can see why 2 and 3K did their best to avoid being slow, methodical and flat platformers?

>>7982105
might as well play mario

>>7993303
>noooo why aren't 1 and CD hold right to win like 2 and 3&K are
Stay filtered by actually challenging level designs, shitplayer.

>>7994006
Bet you suck at all of them, tryhard nigger.

>>7982105
This, except 8-bit games sans Blast are also good, especally the first one.

>>7982073
Ever since you stuck a Sonic 3 cartridge in S&K

Never. It's not the best classic Sonic game but it's still very good.
Every other Sonic game than 1/2/3/3&k/CD is bad though.

>>7982105
You're retarded

>>7982105
This is what wiring your entire brain around other people's opinions does to you. Contrarianism at its saddest.

>>7994527
>B-but all the journalists say Sonic 2 is the best one! That many people can't possibly be wrong!

>>7994561
>>7982105
Fuck off sharktale fag

>>7990293
cringe

>>7994561
No, no, continue playing worse games due solely to what we think, I'm sure it's a very satisfying way to live anon!

>>7994006
>Sonic 1
>actually challenging
lolwat? It's the easiest 2D sonic by far.

>>7995461
no, 2 is easiest, which doesn't have any hard zones besides maybe metropolis.

>>7995516
>Sonic 2 is easier besides 1 zone
Sonic 1 doesnt even have one zone thats remotely hard.

>>7995520
All the bellyaching about marble zone, labyrinth zone, and scrap brain zone proves you wrong.

>>7995529
I'm not one of those retards who thinks boredom = difficulty

>>7995516
2 is a breeze (metropolis is annoying but not really that hard to clear) until sky chase, then it's a little brutal all the way to the very end.

Sonic 2 is the Super Castlevania IV of the Sonic series. It's overlong with too many boring, easy, filler stages as well as introducing OP mechanics which ruined each respective series. I'm glad /vr/ realises they are cancer.

>>7997318
Take your meds auster cuck and stop samefagging.
If not sonic fans fault Sega canceled the port for your precious amiga.

>>7997402
>>7997318
Also you are more autistic than some sonic fans.
Wonder you fucked your mother too lol

>>7982073
it's not. sonic 1 is pretty shitty though, and so is cd
>"i liked sonic cd" = "i liked the opening cutscene of sonic cd"

>>7982073
don't fall for memes
S3&K is good, and has always been good.

S3 alone is okay (kinda short, and there are a few bad levels, namely CNZ2, but I'm also not entirely fond of MGZ acts 1 or 2), and S&K alone would be great if it had saves (also, fuck SZ2 -- major blemish on what is otherwise the overall better half of the game).
A lot of opinions would have been based on people back in the day having only one or the other too (I grew up with S3 alone, and first got to play S3&K after getting Sonic Mega Collection), but in 2021, there's no reason to not play it as one complete whole, and as a whole, it's good. Really good.

>>7997664
yet another tard that got filtered by slow, methodical platforming because he fell for the "SONIC IS ALL ABOUT MUH SPEEED" meme

>>7997676
I'm fine with platforming.
I really like Scrap Brain acts 1 and 2 in particular. Shit's fun. Act 3 sux, it's a good thing there's a skip.

but like:
Labyrinth sucks ass. There isn't another water stage in the series that I dislike more. It's not even that it's slow -- the really fucking slow water stage in Sonic Triple Trouble doesn't piss me off nearly as much as Labyrinth.
Marble is okay... but that's mostly because I know all the shortcuts and shit I can just run through instead of waiting on since I've played the game for over 20 years now.
Spring Yard has those dumb elevators (IIRC, you only need to go through one of them across the three acts, the rest can be avoided) and a few "yeah, you're getting hit here, enjoy" spots.

also, CD's stage design is made to stop you from running for more than however long it takes to activate a warp, shit's fucking ass
the levels are outright designed to fuck with your flow

>>7997714
I know I'm in the minority but Labyrinth is actually my favorite Sonic 1 stage. The music is a big part of that, but honestly the platforming is a lot more fun in Labyrinth than it is in stages like Marble or Spring Yard to me

>>7986361
I don't know, but Christian Whitehead's lying through his teeth when he said Drop Dash being in both S3 beta and Mania was just a coincidence. He was given access to, at least, design documents for the Mega Drive games, that's pretty obvious. There was no need to lie, honestly. Mania is still great.

>>7990293
ooh I get it, chaotix zones are all up there in the hidden SS tier, smart move

Drop Dash is fucking stupid, I'd rather have the instashield from 3&K to block projectiles.

>>7982093
Pretty much yeah, though I would say all of the 2D Sonics are quite good and worth playing.

>>7982073
Sonic sonic 2 fans became butthurt enough to start spreading fake propaganda

>>7982073
Haters.

>>7982073
when you get to the first boss fight of carnival zone

>>7982690
Sonic 2 sprites are literally the assiest. Same with Mario world.

>>7994103
May I interest you in a Sonic Chaos?

>>7982105
>Aka, Oshima > Naka
>>7982112
You will never be Japanese.

The best Sonic game to me will always be the one I'm the least burnt out on between 2, 3&K, and Mania. I'll play one of them enough to grow bored of it, and then drop it in favor of one of the others. By the time I get bored of the next one, I'll stop being bored of the previous one

>>7982194
Not an argument. Sound like a lolcow to me.