/vr/ - Retro Games

>every game is the same bulletvomit
It's worth it if you want to appreciate the art. For gameplay you're better off playing fangame platformers.

If it feels rewarding

No. I used to be a hardcore Touhoufag and never really got anything lasting out of that life phase except catchy tunes. You can just skip to that, there's nothing that satisfying about moving your arbitrary hitbox dot between hypnotic patterns and no prize is worth it.

>>7922864
Bear in mind there are very, VERY few dedicated players to those. You can probably count them in the tens, worldwide.
So yeah, it's a very patrician choice. I just don't get the question. Is it "worth it" to get good at any vidya at all? That's kinda personal.

I got bored of auto-scrolling gameplay

>>7922864
Absolutely

>>7922908
I ask because I used to be into fighting games and enjoyed the high skill nature and personal growth of the genre, but since Strive came out I've fallen out of favour with them hard
>>7922915
none of the characters on the right are trans though dumb /qa/ poster

>>7922901
Always preferred speedruns to just normally using your motor skills to dodge bullets. There's less muscle memory involved in shmups. At least when you get a speedrun down there's this sense of satisfaction because you feel like you just learned how to play the piano.

>>7922917
Fighting games, precision platformers, speedrunning, those all go hand in hand. Shmups are just reading the patterns with some prebaked movements inbetween. It's probably the most autistic skill based genre.

>>7922917
>none of the girls on the right are trans though
that's the joke

>>7922931
shmups are more about zoning out and letting your muscle memory play on auto-pilot, it's about escapism

>>7922940
That's highly arguable. If you play Mushi and essentially speedrun a shmup (because it's so you need to route everything), then yeah. But most shmups aren't that difficult and there's an infinite amount of them.

>>7922901
ZUN himself said the Touhou games are literally just a vehicle to deliver his music and cute girl designs. The games are just there because he wanted something to play while listening to the OST.

>>7922931
I love how everybody talks about shmups like they're meant for retarded monkeys, then they don't last the first minute if their lives depended on it.
It's probably THE hardest vidya genre there is.

>>7922968
What about the vidya where you finally quit 4chan? That one has never been beaten

>>7922968
>then they don't last the first minute if their lives depended on it.

>>7922864
if you are transgender, incel, autistic, a neet, and/or have crippling yellow fever it might be worth your time. otherwise definitely not.

>>7922968
Playing shmups is like picking up a pen and writing "I am good at video games" for 1000 pages. Sure, it would take skill, some people would admire how fast you can write and maybe even compliment your handwriting.

However, most would tell you you're an idiot because you're using basic motor skills that everyone is capable of to achieve absolutely nothing.

>when you are so into the fantasy of being a fighter pilot you forget how mind numbingly stupid the game play is.
Top down shooters are garbage. Only that famous Japanese shooter seemed interesting where switching colors can allow you to absorb a certain color bullet a energy

Why is shmupg so depressed

I used to play the Psikyo shmups
playing shmup is like memorizing a 30min typing test, very exciting
the rewards are carpal tunnel, back pain and loss of personality

They’re worth having fun with.

If you find one that you consider extremely fun, you will return to it often enough that you naturally become better at it. This may or may not involve seeking outside help/strategies.

You do it for as long as you enjoy it. Dont make it a foundation for your ego or some shit like that, doing it for (extremely misplaced) self esteem ruins people who game hardcore like speedrunners.

Is it worth it? Try some fucking games, if you find yourself coming back to one often then it’s apparently worth playing and diving into, aka worth it. If none of them grab you then it isnt. It’s only worth it for as long as you enjoy it.

This is basic and should not need to be explained.

One thing that is a pro and a con is you dont engage with a community much, but you arent reliant on one to play the game either. Shmups are solitary, for both better and worse.

>>7923106
I keep coming back to rpgs and platformers so those are more worth it

>>7922901
I used to shit on bullet hells because I mostly tried poohoo. Now that I have played CAVE games, I have a lot more respect for the subgenre, some are actually fun.
Just avoid the filth that is 2poo and you may enjoy it OP, but if it's not your cup of tea then nobody's forcing you.

>>7923114
What are your favorites bro?

>>7923106
>Shmups are solitary, for both better and worse.
Considering how bad the community is, it's a big pro.

>>7923085
Shmups bring out the worst in people

Get into fighting games instead. Shmups are for sad, lonely people. Plus, fighting games are still alive.

>>7923315
if I lose in fighting games it feels bad, if I lose in shmups it doesn't feel bad and no one judges me

>>7923331
That depends on the person for sure. I feel bad when I lose too but when I win, it's much more gratifying.
You can try picking up a game along with a friend so there would not be much of a difference in skill

>>7922864
Yes, but remember that Cave is all that matters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASZP_Jecfu0
This game is so divisive, you either love it to death or absolutely despise it. That final boss is legitimately terribly designed though.

>>7923002
Ah gotcha. Thanks for clearing it up for me anon. Looks like I'll pass on these.

I like to call them radiozonde-like since they are developed by different people but definitely inspired by radio zonde

I like to call them radiozonde-like since they are developed by different people but definitely inspired by radio zonde
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIBqIY0LEcE

Play shmups that AREN'T bullet hells and have lots of choice involved in how you play them, such as Tyrian. Tons of branching and/or secret levels, enormous amount of weapon and ship combinations, decisions on what things to upgrade and when.

When your choices affect how the game plays the game can be a lot more enjoyable with a feeling of depth and replayability to it.

>>7923026
it's not different from any other video game, and it's not really like what you describe at all

>>7923331
there's that and the fact that you're going to have to grind training mode long enough that you could have just 1cc'd a shmup

>>7923891
>Tyrian
gross

>>7923937
>grind a shmup 1cc
rather play fighting games and touhou than normie shmups

>>7924139
>rather play fighting games and touhou than normie shmups
logical choice for a child-molesting weeb, to each their own

>>7923026
Why are mechanical skills a bad thing?
A good part of retro gaming is memory-based. A good 90% of 'em are based off mechanical skills on top of that.
That's gaming. A guy that's perfected his skills in Ninja Gaiden is doing the exact same thing as people who try to get good at Giga Wing. Same principle.
I'm curious as to what the hell do people who complain about "memorizing" actually do play. Do you sit on your living room and play mahjong all day?

>>7924201
Blablablabla who gives a shit the only good shmup was radio zonde

>>7924201
>I'm curious as to what the hell do people who complain about "memorizing" actually do play.
Do you even need to ask at this point?

>>7924139
>gross
You cannot contest that it's a better game, which is why this is all you can reply with. Hell, if you want to go "muh challenge" (bullet hell retards often think difficulty is a game's ONLY defining factor, so let's humor that), Tyrian actually has literally unlimited difficulty because it's a DOS game whose speed is tied to processing speed. You can run it at any speed you like to increase it difficulty and there isn't a limit to this. So not only is Tyrian better when played normally, by every imaginable metric of game design and play depth, it's even better at being an autistic game you only play for difficulty.

If you're memory so good why can't you get educated and find a job

>>7924201
Memorization is just another way of saying something is too hard and you don't want to put in the effort. People complain about it in video games because there's no extrinsic reward, so they try to rationalize it as being "rote memorization" that "doesn't really require skill" and is therefore beneath them and not worthy of their time.
If tomorrow it was suddenly considered socially uncool to learn a language or play an instrument, you would hear people say the exact same thing about those

>>7924275
This is autistic. We're all washed out old men past our prime here pretending to be part of an elitist secret society of ubber greek gods but we're still playing with old toys we were meant to have outgrown. You're not fooling anybody.

No one gives a shit about my gradius 3 clear or even know what that is.

>>7924201
Most shmups will have a small amount of memorization, like “oh this unique formation appeared, that means a eace will come out from the right soon” stuff like that will happen occasionally in the later levels of some games.

Over 90% of any good shmup is gonna be fundamentals though. Just precision control and ability to group bullets and know where they’re gonna go. “Memorization” is a cope that doesnt apply to the vast majority of shmups, people just suck.

>>7923282
I’m still convinced the majority of bad actors in the “community” dont even play anything, at least on /vr/. Anyone I’ve talked to who I know for sure plays these games has been pretty friendly, and supportive of anyone trying to get better.

>>7924281
People don't care about you beating old platformers or RPG and /vr/ actually plays those.

>>7924280
>>7924281
You should have a healthy life balance when it comes to engaging in hobbies like these, anon.

The idea of a shmup general is actually pretty bad because you probably do have to be a uber geek god with no life to get good at ALL of these games. A single shmup takes a long time to get good at and you’ll want to do other things, these are burst play games not stuff you’re supposed to grind for hours.

If you’re seeking social validation then yeah do shit that’s more important than gradius. This isnt meant to be your fucking life, but if you treat it as the occasional fun distraction it’s meant to be and net some 1ccs, then that’s fine.

>>7924287
>eace
I meant to type wave, two typos in one word god damn

Shmups are fun, you dont have to go full autist perfecting ultra hard mode and trying to top the leaderboards. My favorite way is to keep trying on easy/normal until I can 1cc and then move to another game or come back later if you want to grind through hard mode. Crimzon clover was just a blast to keep trying, making myself restart on continues until i made it through to the end without doing practice mode. Its really not that different from something like Ninja Gaiden where you learn from your deaths until you know the game well enough to smash your way to the end. Not /vr/ but blue revolver is a great recent one.

>>7922864
Bullet hell just enunciates the feeling of smoothly and confidentially figuring out the solution in an atmosphere designed to make you feel panic.

Once you figure that concept out it's just a puzzle game more or less.

>>7922864
literally no game is worth getting good at

I admit I’m an idiot, okay fine just someone please help me

How the hell do I set or find the keyboard controls in shmupmame 4? I can open options and go to Controller Mapping, but all I find is P1 is linked to ID: 1 for the controls. Where the fuck do I find ID: 1? I just want to play my shooty shoot games and the emulator has all these in depth options but nothing for just simply setting the fucking controls of a game

>>7924538
Nevermind I found it, have to press tab while in-game to get to the controls.

>>7924394
i realize its not retro but dark souls has this feel too

>>7924571
Dark Souls is more like the R-Types

>>7922864
>Are bullet hells worth getting good at?
no, nearly everyone who does is covering serious mental issues and has deep rooted problems dating back to childhood. Get real hobbies and just play games for fun sometimes.

>>7924275
>>7924201
A game is a series of interesting decisions and should force you to apply lessons learned from one situation to a different one.
Beating Ninja Gaiden once is skill, because it tested you against unfamiliar scenarios, the 50th time wasn't. It required no adaptability on your part, only repeating motions against exactly what you expected to happen.
There must be some sort of unknown factor or variation, to test skill. And the scenarios should be long enough to verify consistency.

>>7924275
>>7924201
>People complain about it in video games because there's no extrinsic reward, so they try to rationalize it as being "rote memorization" that "doesn't really require skill" and is therefore beneath them and not worthy of their time.
Repetitive, scripted grinding is an uninteresting and boring way to acquire skill. Not hard to understand. People don't enjoy learning by repeating memorization drills for hours.

People complain about it because eventually they get bored of the games and remember all the dry work they put in, all the rote memorization, all the grinding to acquire a skill that brings no external reward, doesn't transfer to anything else, and also provides no enjoyment anymore. It's no different than an mmo addict who overcomes his addiction and looks back negatively at all the time he wasted grinding, repetitively, almost on auto pilot. Yet he looks favourably on the social aspects, the pvp, the initial learning and exploring, the big raids and rare bosses, aka surprising non-scripted stuff. Very understandable.

>>7922864
>Are bullet hells worth getting good at?
>Is it worth getting good at estimating jelly beans in a jar?
No, but if you enjoy playing them you'll get good eventually.
If you play bullet hells because you think dodging dots or making numbers go up is impressive and valuable then you'll be disappointed because they're not.

>>7924752
>>7925325

if someone gets good at shmups it probably means they took a wrong turn in life and need to re-evaluate their choices

>this thread is now just the exiled spic and brit going back and forth doomposting about shmups

Too bad OP that your interest in the games has attracted some incredible amounts of autism

>>7922864
>Vertical
Nope

>>7925816
wrong

>>7925816
You must be new, it's the absence of such people why the thread's like this. /vr/ fucking hates these games, without fail whenever shmup threads show up they use them to dump on the genre and that's it. If anything it's because of the lack of other fans why the couple of players left.
You honestly have to be dumb as fuck to think any of the posts itt were by "the brit" considering how distinct his posting style is.

>>7926137
>/vr/ fucking hates these games,
the people who hate shmups the most are former top players with thousands of hours of expertise

>>7926146
>/vr/
>former top players with thousands of hours of expertise
Nah it's just pigs

>>7923104
>and loss of personality
Personality is a prison. Free yourself.

/vr/ is the best shmup gate keeper
thank you

>>7926159
I hope the couple of fans left just stop bothering and talk about these games elsewhere. There's nothing here.

>>7926164
Yeah kinda sad to see one or two guys defending the games from hordes of haters instead of, you know, people talking about these games.

>>7923891
>Tyrian
ew, euroshmup

Play good shit instead - Radiant Silvergun, Dangun Feveron, DDP, Raiden series, ZeroRanger

>>7924263
>Tyrian better
Low IQ detected. Upgrade shops fuck with shmup balance. HP Bars dispose of any challenge. Plus it has a hideous aesthetic

>>7925827
Low IQ opinion
"Horizontal forever! This intense game involving dodging boolets NEEDS random fucking terrain to dodge as well, that is fun"

>>7922864
Honestly no. The best shmups are the middle period in the early to mid-lateish 90s where they finally started shrinking hitboxes but didn't design the games exclusively for a small niche of 1000 Japanese arcade autists.

play good shit like Gate of Thunder or R-Type Leo or Gradius Gaiden, that era of shmups was the peak.

>>7926215
Vertical is cucked and retarded and part of what killed the genre.
>wow everybody is playing video games from their home nowadays and not in arcades
>wow everybody has a 16:9 widescreen HD TV
>TIME TO MAKE EVERY GAME IN THE ENTIRE GENRE 240p VERTICALLY SCROLLING
I swear they were actively -trying- to tank the genre and its relevance into the dirt as much as possible.

>>7926282
> Not buying a swiveling VESA mount.
> Not rotating your 65 inch low latency flat panel TV 90 degrees

>>7926290
again, retarded. That this subpar genre expects so much investment is yet another reason it (deservedly) died in obscurity.

>>7926292
>died in obscurity
It'll never die.

>>7926294
Enjoy your endless doujin shmups by indies that only sell 5k copies at best. It used to be in the 16 bit and even in the 3D revolution every kid had at least one game about spaceships blowing shit up in their collection if not two or three. Nowadays zoomers have never even touched a shmup or even know what one is. It's a dead, irrelevant genre.

lmao the last shmup that caught any kind of widespread critical acclaim/journalistic coverage and sales notice was Devil Engine and that game is now marred by controversy about the developers not getting paid by the publisher.

>>7922864
>asking about shmups on /vr/
must be bait, lol

If not bait, consider the following : play for yourself, and see if you like the game(s). "Getting good" (which is highly subjective and doesn't really mean anything) is a byproduct of liking a game.

>>7926137
Tardo doesn't like shmups and was only there for the community, his lil grpup of e-fwends, stir some shit up and act like some persecuted victim. He's better off playing some kiddy platformers. Quintessential poser, this dude.

>>7926294
it's on life support thanks to touhou, which is a fate even worse than death

>ketsui is so good i feel like im ruining the rest of the genre for myself

>>7926381
Ketsui 1ALL is fun but if you ever try seriously going for the second loop you'll actually be making the rest of the genre look good by comparison.

If you ever burn out qnd want something easier to respark your passion try out Cotton Reboot. Soooo good.

Bullethells are spastic garbage for the mentally ill, unlike actual good shmups.

>>7926462
>If you ever burn out qnd want something easier to respark your passion try out Cotton Reboot. Soooo good.
PC release when?

i'd rather read a book desu

>>7926212
So you've never played Tyrian but hate it because you made things up about upgrade systems ruining balance, and erroneously think a game cannot be challenging with an HP bar. See
>>7924263 and actually read this time, Tyrian is an uncapped, limitlessly challenging game, autist! That's right, you can play it the most autistic way possible to match your challenge-autism until you are not skilled enough to complete it. Your favorite bullet hell cannot compete in being the most pointlessly difficult game.

>>7922968
no one else is tragic enough to get good at the hardest video game genre when it still is fuck all compared to getting legit good at real life hobbies...

moglars on wr ketsui pace after 1500 hrs play, 1500 hrs in any sport or competitive real life game would land you in the amateur class.

>>7923085
>Why is shmupg so depressed
Because all addiction leads to attachment and suffering and is always used to escape real life failings and problems, its digital heroin essentially,.

I took a few days off shmups because my wrist hurt, that was over a month ago. Feels good not caring about muh progress or getting rusty or keeping up with shmup news and community stuff.

This was the worst hobby i got into.

>>7927978
>shmup news
The only news is if a new game or excellent port comes out
>community
lmao

91st for fuck STG

>>7922864
There are a lot of really great schmuppz out there, but bullet hells are pure cancer in my opinion

>There are a lot of really great schmuppz out there
nah, there's like 3 or 4

There are 0 "schmupzz", that's not a thing

watched someone stream Esprade today
so boring, I'm going to tell him to quit

>>7928321
The only good part of Esprade is that one tank design for a midboss

>>7927978
>keeping up with shmup news
there's like one relevant announcement every 2 months and 3/4 of the time it's about a port of a game everybody has already played to death, not hard to keep up

>>7927978
>This was the worst hobby i got into.
lel

I get no satisfaction out of playing a shmup the same way I would playing a bmup or a fightan game.

>>7928623
>>7928769
>>7928296
>>7927978

woah he mass replied with a wojak, shmups btfo

>>7927978
>This was the worst hobby i got into.
completely agree, same for me, glad its over and its my only regret in life ever getting involved with arcade shite. All real activities are much better no exceptions.

>>7928797
literally me but remove touhou

>>7922864
video games aren't worth getting good at you just do it anyway

>>7928296
Radiant Silvergun, Axelay the list goes on.

>>7923104
What did you play them on. I'm interested in sengoku ace+blade

Anyone here played XOP?

>>7927528
i get your point and i don't disagree, but to an extent that could be said in general about our shit hobby of vidya and in particular about spending time on this shit site.
if it's fun and you want to sink dozens of hours into it, how can it really be a waste of time, simply because there is something "more productive" to do?

>move 7 pixels left!
>now go 4 pixels right!
>whoiaaaaaaaaaa!

>>7922864
lol no

>>7929329
XOP black is pretty good

>>7929450
But Black version is straight up worse than normal one, from music to weapons to level variety.
Have you played XOP Plus or Xop Ultra?

The more descriptive/japanese the title is, the worse the shmup will be.

>>7929479
You really hate anime don't you

>>7929482
Not really. Good shmups have simple, futuristic-sounding titles.

>>7929482
>>7929493
I think good shmups are the ones that are fun to play.

>>7929441
choose fun with benefits instead of fun that ends in misery.

>>7929441
And i never speak of productivity thats a western thing, im not saying other things are necessarily more productive but of far greater value holistically speaking.

>>7929479
Adjective + cool animal name completely unrelated to the game is the only way to go

>>7929842
This is why Black Tiger is the best platformer ever created

>>7928797
is there any hope for shmup player?

>>7928797
I don't feel so good clastbros

tried DOJ, dropped my chain at stage 2 mid boss and turned it off. Tried Rayforce, turned it off immediately.

Might play some more next week.

lol this captcha is trash
4cuk is ded

>>7929457
I haven't played XOP since it was freeware

>>7929879
actually based

>>7930231
i lose all respect for someone when i discover they are a gamer (and there's no such thing as a 'reformed' or ex-gamer). there is no obligation in this world worth acknowledging to such a creature

>>7922864
>Worth getting good at
What the fuck kind of question is this? If you like bullet hells you already know the answer. If you don't know, then play one and find out. It's ultimately for your entertainment, meaning no one will give a shit if you're a god at it and you only do it for your own amusement.

>>7931228
THIS

so i just got done watching this bong comedy series called dead pixels which is a satire on mmorpg players, its a comedy but ends up being depressing as fuck imo

rob should watch it

>>7922864
Yes if it's presented by CAVE

>>7931228
thank you for this truth

The illness is fake.

I think it seems like it would be if I knew the order to play them in to get better progressively. The problem is the most I could ever handle was the section in kirby super star which felt like a perfect introduction.

Want to lose your faith? Play a bullet hell. After ten minutes Satan himself will possess you and suggest the most horrible blasphemies to shout at the screen. There are known cases of cloistered monks and nuns, even some theologist who converted themselves to Satanism after two or three plays on Ikaruga or Radiant Silvergun.

>>7923315
Fuck that gay shit. I play fighting games and shumps. I beat tlb on mushi on my ps2 and laptop at least once a year.

If you like breaking scores then shumps are a great genre.

>If you like breaking scores then shumps are a great genre.
?

>>7922864
cave games are designed to be played for score - so to find out whether you actually enjoy them you should try playing them for score - or at the very least to get a 1cc for starters. This in turn, requires some perseverence and minimal effort to "get good" at them. Whether it's "worth it" depends on whether you enjoy that playstyle and particular game. Top players often say playing for score is not about reflexes and mostly about problem solving, i.e. finding the ideal route, and liken the experience more to puzzle games than action games. So it's not everyone's cup and the relatively high skill-ceiling for getting any enjoyment out of the genre is one of the factors that make it niche.

In my experience, 95% of casual players will go "Well, it's insanely difficult, lol, but you can just credit feed to the end and see everything in 20 mins. so what's the point - back to playing minecraft!" So from that perspective, yeah, they're "worth getting good at" - if only to not fundamentally misunderstand what the genre's about and in order to figure out if they're actually your thing to begin with.

>>7933363
post your minecraft hardcore survival run

>>7933369
fight me in starcraft 2 or hearthstone and see what happens

>>7933184
imagine identifying as that

>>7933369
>>7933386
I think it's time to send you both to the shadow realm.

How can you tell if a game is well designed for 1ccing or not?
The games I'm thinking of 1ccing are Ketsui and Darius Gaiden because I really like them both.

>>7933423
all games are designed for 1ccing when you really think about it

>>7933425
woah...

>>7933363
>Well, it's insanely difficult, lol, but you can just credit feed to the end and see everything in 20 mins.
I may be a heretic for saying this kind of thing here, but I think you should be able to do that.
I hate when I casually go throu some game on easiest mode, get to the end and are told that there are some content I missed available on higher difficulty.

>>7933565
I think its fine to do that at first to see if you like the whole game, but its not properly playing