/vr/ - Retro Games

Introduced in Mario 2: Bob-omb, Shy guy, Pokey
Introduced in Mario 3: Thwomp, Chain chomp

>>7904423
Oh, and Boo for Mario 3 as well.

>>7904384
I think Mario has always been a "gameplay first, everything else second" type of thing. Story/lore continuity has never seemed like a priority

>>7904384
I hate how Wario and Waluigi don't have a presence in the main games.
I remember seeing them in advertisements and just assumed they played a big role in games I didn't know about yet. But nope, just spinoffs.

>>7904434
Of course. It was just whatever they thought was fun at the time. IIRC, Miyamoto wanted Mario to have a dinosaur companion in SMB3 but they couldn’t make it work till World.

>>7904426
ok, i wanted to say SMB/SMB3 enemies form the core, but SMB3 mostly just takes ones from SMB except for a few of them. Boos and Bob-ombs are good examples but there's not many of such cases.
shy guys and pokeys are decent examples, but they don't appear all that often in mario games, iirc.

>>7904384
>most of the original SMW enemies somehow don't appear anywhere else
because it takes place in Dinosaur Land, not the Mushroom Kingdom?

Honestly I would like to see a new Mario game that mostly starts from scratch when it comes to enemies and power ups. New villain, new army, new world. The RPG's do this sometimes.

Unfortunately Nintendo has been keeping new Mario games on a leash despite people pointing out how stale they are becoming. They'd rather wait until people go through Mario withdrawal and crank out more of the same than change things up.

>>7904384
I won't lie it was neat to see the Charging Chuck come back in Odyssey.
>>7904423
Also Dry Bones, Pokey's, Swoop's, Blargg, Monty Moles and Thwomps.

>>7904468
i thought about that, but in the end it's kind of lame. they had all those cool enemies that don't appear anywhere else. and how do you explain shy guys in later games then?

>>7904469
i guess i can relate in that i'm tired of seeing same enemies from SMB/SMB3 over and over again and I want something more interesting. I think mario simply has way too many cool enemies gathering dust for whatever reason as is, so if they brought them back that'd be cool and would satisfy some nostalgic people too.

>>7904468
>It's called "dinosaur land"
>Only has 4 dinosaurs in the whole game (5 with Yoshi)
>Basically none of the levels or music are prehistoric themed

What was even the point?

>>7904490
That's more dinosaurs than most places have

>>7904490
Blargg was worth it because he gave us the best CRT filter

I like how extremely inventive the early Marios were. I liked how they each felt so distinct and unique with their own weird enemies.

I wish they would go back to that instead of always using the koopa troop.

The RPGs used to be good about this too but now they’re the same stock enemies every game.

It’s also not just about enemies/lands, the artstyle used to change up a bit every game and I want that to come back.

>>7904440
Since SMB1, actually.

There's nothing really wrong with using the iconic enemies that established the look of the series. Do you really expect them to make dozens of 10/10 designs for every new game? Nah. That being said, I'm pretty sure there aren't any really any iconic enemies designs -originally created- for any of the 3D games. Mario 64 was basically all classic Mario enemies + some oddballs that no one cares about.

>>7904423
Shy Guy isn't even in the mainline titles unless you count SMW2 as mainline. A damn shame too because he's got one of the cooler looking designs

>>7904624
what about Whomps

>>7904670
Shy Guy is in 64.

>>7904670
Mario 64 has "fly guy". It also has those other masked Mario 2 enemies that shoot fire (snufit)

>>7904624
>Do you really expect them to make dozens of 10/10 designs for every new game?
They used to.

>>7904736
Oh damn, I completely forgot about those. Would love to see them appear again though.

>>7904384
>SMB2 is "the game we don't talk about" to Nintendo
What do you mean? You can play Mario 2 style in Mario Maker 2

>>7904836

And it was the launch title for their Game Boy Advance.

>>7904384
Miyamoto doesn't give a shit about world creation and only cares about games from a technical standpoint like gameplay and design concepts.

Anyone remember when Ninjis appeared in Super Mario World?

>>7905063
In the final castle level

>>7904384
The Mario universe is really strange, the humans from Odyssey were supposed to look cartoonish, but then in the final version...

>>7904384

SMW was in Dinosaur land, while SMB took place in the Mushroom Kingdom. SMB2 was some weird dream-world and SMB3 was the first (and one of the only) to take the setting outside the Mushroom kingdom. Sunshine took place on Isle Delphino. I could go on. But it's diferent areas.

>>7904490

You're forgetting Yoshi and his friends as well. It's not some cave-man setting, it's just a place that has some dinosaurs.

>>7905235

New Donk City really ruins a lot of the lore. So supposedly the Mario world is medieval aged. Then all of a sudden you see modern city? The reason they used Airships was because it's a more primative technology than anything else. And the Bowser tanks were mostly wood with some cannons on it.

Didn't Sunshine show airplanes?

>>7905261
OK but that raises more questions. Why did Yoshi appear in other games but most SMW enemies didn't? If Boos don't appear in Mushroom Kingdom, how come they appear in almost every game after SMB3? Then, like was mentioned above, select few enemies from SMB2 actually appear in other games despite the game being set in dream world. Last but not least, if the games are set in entirely different locations, why do they all share goombas and koopas? You could say they inhabit every world in mario universe, but you could retcon any enemy from SMB2 and later like that.

>>7905261
>>7905278
and to add, while i'd agree if it was different local fauna between games (eg Rex and other dinos being native species to Dinosaur Land), why don't all the football themed enemies of SMW appear anywhere else? are they "fauna" too?

>>7905282
>why don't all the football themed enemies of SMW appear anywhere else?

You do realize that they're a joke right? They're regular Koopas who have donned Football armor because they're sick of Mario stomping them. As such they take several hits to kill.

>>7905278

The Koopa and Goomba are there because they're Bowser troops and they follow them around.

>>7905287

Shells more noticeable in art.

>>7905287
ok so if they are troops, other enemies are not Bowser troops? i suppose Chargin Chuck is a troop too, right? where was he in every game past SMW then?

>>7905296

Yes, they are soldiers of Bowswer who have invaded the Dinosaur lands. The dinos and a few other enemies are local.

https://www.mariowiki.com/Chargin%27_Chuck

>>7905265
>So supposedly the Mario world is medieval aged. Then all of a sudden you see modern city?
Mario was never specifically depicted as medieval, only fantastical, but cities/"modern" settings have been around at least as early as Mario Kart 64 with stuff like Toad's Turnpike, or arguably Super Mario Kart given the karts themselves. I don't think the addition of realistic/detailed NPCs is particularly "lore"-breaking, just that it helps emphasize that Mario's world is a place where anything can happen
>Didn't Sunshine show airplanes?
it did, in addition to cargo ships, some kind of weird Bowser boat and all the automated stuff at the amusement park

>>7905265
>>7905313
also Big-City from DK94 showed an urban setting as well, but I think that was back when it was still considered New York or some kind of stand-in for NYC and arguably not part of the Mario world

>>7905313
>I don't think the addition of realistic/detailed NPCs is particularly "lore"-breaking
i think it's just weird, exactly same weird clash like Sonic Adventure 1/2. You take an old timey cartoon character living in an imaginary cartoon world, then put him into a realistic modern world setting and try to retcon him being real and all.

>>7904384
So you're basically complaining that games have their own enemies instead of constantly rehashing content?

Is this the state of Nintendo fanboys?!

>>7905265
Super Mario Land had biplanes, Sunshine had airplanes as you said, Galaxy had starships, SML2 had a space suit, I don’t really see how odyssey ruins the “lore” of a series that was never intended to be 100% congruent between titles.

>>7905235
what the actual fuck is this ?
>we need a new Mario game, quick
>say no more, take this generic game and just replace the main protagonist with whatever you like

>>7905384
It's just one of the worlds, the rest are more stylized and suitable to Mario. Not that this makes the New Donk City part stand out any less, it's still fucking weird.

>>7905265
>lore
Hahahahaha

>>7905384
Odyssey is all about exploring outside of what you expect from Mario

>>7904434
this, which is exactly what it should be
The same is true of Zelda by the way the only difference being that a few people at Nintendo marketing seem to have a running bet over how ridiculous they can make the "Zelda continuity" and still have autistic fanboys eat it up.

>>7904469
The RPGs are unironically among the best JRPGs I've played, and I've played a fuckton of those.

>>7905265
>So supposedly the Mario world is medieval aged.
Where the fuck have you gotten that idea?

>>7904490
>>Basically none of the levels or music are prehistoric themed

It's dinosaur land, not caveman land. There's no cavemen to be found, it's just a string of islands where there's some dinosaurs.

>>7904445
Sniffits from SMB2 were in 64

>>7905384
Odyssey is well worth playing imo. New Donk City ended up being one of the best parts of the entire game.

>>7905265
>Mario world is medieval aged
Mario had tanks and airships as early as smb3, you fucking spastic

>>7904490
They were on the verge of extinction. King Koopa realized this and lured Mario. The hero kills the remaining dinosaurs, inadvertently bringing them to extinction. Mario framed as a mass murdered. All according to King Koopa's plan.

>>7905915

Wooden tanks with simple cannons, and wooden airships with cannons. Those don't look very modern at all. I think they were aiming for more fantasy fairy tale world back then.

>>7904384
For the better. Having exclusive enemies makes the games more special than reusing them everywhere.

>>7905876
The plumber outfit

>>7904384
>most of the original SMW enemies somehow don't appear anywhere else
That's the point. It takes place in Dinosaur Land, a place where Goombas can't be killed with a simple stomp and where we saw Koopas walk upright for the first time.

>>7905313
>White Kirby in Japan
What the fuck, NA boxart was real?
Scans of the rest of the guide?

Flower Head deserved better.

>>7905997
Learn what "medieval" means, retard.

>>7904384
>SMB2 is "the game we don't talk about" to Nintendo.
Sure OP, let's just forget that SMB2 got an Famicom release, two Super Famicom releases (counting the Satellaview pseudosequel), and a Game Boy Advance port, and that the enemies from SMB2 have been returning in Mario games since SMB3.

>>7904670
Shy Guy is one of the most popular mooks too, but yeah they actually rarely appear in mainline games, which is why they are littered everywhere in spin-offs.

>>7907090
>the enemies from SMB2 have been returning in Mario games since SMB3
Yup. Birdo, Bob-Ombs, Pokeys and Shy Guys are stables. Ninjis have been making a comeback

>>7904490
That's perfectly fine, it'd feel forced and weird if it was too much dinosaurs. That amount balances out pretty nicely against the majority of the classic mario enemies. It's still a Mario game, not Joe and Mac.
Also all these are super memorable and not overused, which makes encountering them more special.

>>7905997
>tanks with threads
>medieval
Earliest concept you can find which could be called a tank was some cooky concept dreamed up by Leonardo da Vinci in the late 1400s.

>The concept was designed while Leonardo da Vinci was under the patronage of Ludovico Sforza in 1487.[2] Sometimes described as a prototype of modern tanks, Leonardo's armored vehicle represented a conical cover inspired by a turtle's shell. The covering was to be made of wood and reinforced with metal plates that add to the thickness. Slanting angles would deflect enemy fire. The machine was powered by two large cranks operated internally by four strong men. The vehicle was equipped with an array of light cannons, placed around the perimeter.[3]
>The gears of the design were located in a reversed order, making the vehicle unworkable. This is thought by some sources to have been a deliberate mistake by Leonardo as a form of security, in case his design was stolen and used irresponsibly. It is almost impossible to fix this problem successfully without taking away power from its forward movement and strength. Regardless, the vehicle would have been too heavy to move and would have lacked the battlefield mobility seen in modern tanks that make them so effective.[4]

The tanks in Super Mario Bros. 3 just look like modern 20th century tank shapes, except made out of logs. They're fantasy, like the airships made out of logs.

>>7905593
Odyssey basically proves the claim about paper mario being limited for characters is bullshit when the game had multitudes of unique characters not seen in previous mario games. Paper Mario devs are just lazy.

>>7907187
Odyssey didn't have Miyamoto breathing down the devs' neck, they had enough clout and muscle with the Mario brand to do their own thing. On the other hand, it's been outright confirmed that the Paper Mario devs are not allowed to do anything.

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/paper-mario-origami-king/
Tanabe: Since Paper Mario: Sticker Star, it’s no longer possible to modify Mario characters or to create original characters that touch on the Mario universe. That means that if we aren’t using Mario characters for bosses, we need to create original characters with designs that don’t involve the Mario universe at all, like we’ve done with Olly and the stationery bosses.

This statement is consistent with statements from when Sticker Star was new.

>>7907187
>Paper Mario devs are just lazy.
>Source: my ass that didn't do any research

>SMB2
Literally happened in a dreamland, but Birdo, Shy Guy, Pokey, and Bom-ombs are still recurring.

>SMW
That's basically the only Mario game that takes place in DinoLand

>SML
Literally the only game that takes place in Sarasaland.

>>7905384
If going by the styles for New Donk City people, there's one in particular that I liked.

>>7904384
SMW introduced the standing koopa troopas which have been the norm since that game.

>>7904384
>dino's POV

>>7908302

Yeah, wtf are those things? They look more like mini-Bowser. Koopas were clearly turtles.

>>7907187
it doesn't prove anything at all. Intelligent Systems will never have the freedom with the IP as an internal Nintendo studio like Nintendo EPD will.

>>7905903
This. Anyone talking shit about New Donk City clearly never played that level and is just being a fag going "UGH REALISTIC PEOPLE IN MARIO" like little crybaby bitches.

>>7905295
>confused chucks

>>7904624
Mario64 to this day reminds me more of a romhack of an entirely different series than mario. nearly everything is different from how it worked and looked in the 2D Marios.

>>7908725
True. I love SM64, but they changed things way too much in it. Granted, it was probably necessary to transition to 3d well. You can't just take a 2d side scrolling game, add 3rd dimension and call it a day. Like, I can see how throwing koopa shells would be clunky in 3d (at least without auto aim). And I can see why Mario needed a punch attack. But maybe they could've kept some things more consistent.

>>7908750
>You can't just take a 2d side scrolling game, add 3rd dimension and call it a day.
It worked well in 3D World.
They actually backtracked on some aspects of 64 in later 3D games and made them more like the 2D Marios.
Like there's no more fall damage, health isnt a bar and small mario is back, swimming is traditional without a breath bar, old powerups are back (not the flying ones of course) and even new enemies try to follow 2D Mario designs to a degree, unlike lets say a scuttlebug.

>>7904384
because nintendo doesn't care about your "deep lore" when making a video game and only reference things for a nostalgia pop like odyssey making references to SMB, mario 64 & donkey kong.

>>7908445
To me, New Donk City is Nintendo taking the old Americanized backstory of Mario being from Brooklyn and revising so that it now fits with the rest of the Mushroom world.

Sadly, the concept to visit Mario's original plumbing shop while in NDC was cut.

>>7904490
>What was even the point

That's hilarious. It's like the most basic of window dressing.

>>7904520
Have you even played any of the not retro mario games? The new super mario bros ones kinda suck yeah but everything else is pretty cool.

>>7904384
>There are now three types of big Monty Mole Mega Mole, Morty Mole, and Mega Monty Mole.
>There are two types of tiny Goomba: Micro Goomba/Mini Goomba/Small Goomba/Goombette and Chibibo/Goombo.
>There are apparently two types of Ice Snifit: the ones from Mario & Luigi and the ones from Yoshi's Woolly World.
>Frost Piranha and Ice Piranha Plant are apparently the same thing in Japan.
>Tox Boxes from Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Galaxy are apparently different in Japan.
>The whole situation with some Super Mario 64 enemies (Kuromame/Keronpa Ball, Snifit/Snufit, fire-spitting Fly Guy, fuckin' Bubba)
>etc.etc.
Some of this is localization's fault, but a lot is developers not communicating with each other and inconsistencies arising between games.

>>7904868
Based

>>7909075
>Sadly, the concept to visit Mario's original plumbing shop while in NDC was cut.
it hurts

>>7909607

So he's a plumber from New Donk City then? Huh. That's interesting. That almost lines up with his cartoon origin of being from New York, and New Donk is a NYC stand-in.

So humans are from the nation where New Donk is from then? Does that mean Peach too? Why would she be princess of the Mushroom Kingdom then?

>>7909634
>That almost lines up with his cartoon origin of being from New York
That was something Miyamoto came up with for Mario Bros., believe it or not, and Pauline was retroactively said to be from there so presumably it applies to Donkey Kong as well. New York=Big-City=Big Ape City=New Donk City.

>>7909634
>>7909707
New Donk's underground was also originally going to be more pipe-filled, suggesting it's the location from Mario Bros. Arcade as well, though the final design doesn't convey this as well

>>7904439
I was always more bothered how Wario has 2 different spin-off series to his name and Waluigi isn't involved in any of them, not even an acknowledgement of his existence

>>7905876
The castles?

>>7909075
>>7909634
Donkey Kong (Arcade) took place in a construction site.

This was expanded upon in Donkey Kong (Gameboy), where the construction site was the prologue to the Big City. A year later Donkey Kong Land would introduce Big Ape City, which was said to also be the origin of Mario & DK's battle.New Donk City once again is a city that reaffirms that it was Mario's and DK's origin.

Wrecking Crew also takes place in an urban environment due to Mario & Luigi being demolition site workers. Then with Mario Bros. takes place in a sewer environment.

I think it's reasonable to theorize that before Super Mario Bros Mario & Luigi's origins is that of a city. Big City, Big Ape City and New Donk City are reinterpretations of this same city, and it's likely Wrecking Crew and Mario Bros took place in them as well.

>>7910298
Taking the Yoshi's Island backstory into account, I'm thinking Mario and Luigi were born in the Mushroom Kingdom, moved to NDC to learn some work trades, and then moved back in time for SMB1.

>>7910482
But where does Punch Ball Mario Bros. fit in?

>>7904490
The actual themes of the world revolve around food.

>>7910690
I liked this so much. I also imagined the world was actually made of food too. Love food levels

>>7909753
i really like how mario looks in a setting with other cartoonish people really freshens things up. i liked when he was still appearing in different settings in G&W games, DK, Wrecking Crew, etc.

I was always bummed out we never got a brand new Mario platformer for the GBA not counting MvDK which is more of sequel to DK94.

>>7911061
if you look at GB, we got SML series. but then GBC only got SMB Deluxe and Warioland series. I guess GBA followed suit, it got remakes and a new Warioland.
Also I guess Nintendo didn't really "need" a flagship Mario game to sell GBA. They knew Pokemon would sell it anyway. Same with Zelda.

>>7910482
This is pretty much my thought as well.

>>7905295
>playing SMW as a kid
>jump over the very first charging formerly chuck only to realize he keeps following you
>mfw he can jump over pipes

>>7909894
We have castles today too

>>7905295
God all of these names are great

>>7908725
They did it because it worked better.

Mario 64 is a fucking legendary game, 3D Land is just plain boring. 3D World is very fun (largely due to the multiplayer) but not nearly as memorable of a title.

If Nintendo had come out with something closer to 3D Land no one would have been that impressed at the time. The obsession with keeping game sequels all the same is a recent one, back in the day reinventing the wheel on new entries was common.

>>7907896
>Literally happened in a dreamland, but Birdo, Shy Guy, Pokey, and Bom-ombs are still recurring.
I always saw this as Mario dreaming them into Subcon, especially Shy Guys which he first encountered as a baby

>>7909753
On the smaller flags, the New Donk City logo looks like someone is giving the finger

>>7910482
but isn't the backstory still supposed to be that they accidentally stumbled on the Mushroom Kingdom?

>>7913563
I think that's just the cartoons, though I would love to read if there was a game source

wHy is tHe MarIo sEttiNg sO fRactUreD???

>>7914618
Why do people post like this? It's a dumb thread but posts like this are like a million times dumber. I've never seen someone use random capitals and not also be a total brainlet.

Post old mario brothers depictions, pic related is luigi https://youtu.be/AnU-2HRJNO4

>>7914927

>>7915639
This made me sick

>>7914927
Funny how the personality is actually on point, even the way he screams MARIOOO totally inspired J. Martinett

>>7913357
I 100% disagree with everything said.
Mario64 would be a much better game if it stuck with the mario gameplay designs more.
Especially the powerups. Cap in 3D is genius, everything else is fucking shit.

>>7915639
Man I bet the quartz clock and alarm cost more money to manufacture but someone insisted and thought that kids would carry their game n watches everywhere because of it

>>7915639
Based.

>>7905265
This is why Odyssey is completely (40%) fucking based

>>7907123
Absolutely based post

>>7904384
chargin chuck went from being in smw to disappearing until a brief cameo in one e reader level in Mario advance 4 to being completely gone until 3d world, and then he showed up again in odyssey and now hes in fucking Mario golf

>>7914871
wHy Fo PeoPlE pOst LiKe t
ok you get the point

>>7917247
Lots more kids grew up with light exposure to SMB without touching World, then, lots of kids played World on the gba, so, Chuck just took some time to become a star

>>7917259
Not the reason. 3D World's dev team was noted as having a lot of people on it who had grown up playing SMW and were now working at Nintendo.

>>7914871
It's something that kids are doing nowadays