/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7898565
I think the problem with a lot of pixel perfect vs. CRT comparisons, including this, is that the person making the comparison always picks a zoomed in shot of some sprite which looks nice and crisp in the pixel example but blurry as hell in the CRT example. Nobody actually played that close to their TV. All the advantages of softening the pixels and blending the colors together don't mean squat if you're looking at it that close, because then it just becomes a blurry mess.

You know how there are scanline generators?
Is it possible to build a lag-free device that could add the pseudo dithering effects of phosphor bloom and composite blur to an image?

Because I'm all for playing retro games on big screens, but the way the graphics were designed to take advantage of the hardware limitations and eccentricities of CRT displays (most notoriously the concept of 480i in general) means that looking at a raw ~320x240 pixel RGB image upscaled via integer scaling to a blocky 1080p or whatever signal with razor sharp pixel edges is not just wrong, but not even close to what the developers intended the game to look like.

It annoys me that the effects of CRT monitors are treated like magic. I'd like to see someone deconstruct exactly how it improves the look of pixel art and see if it can be done better.

>>7898626
>I'd like to see someone deconstruct exactly how it improves the look of pixel art and see if it can be done better.
I don't understand, are you criminally retarded?

>>7898582
You could show comparison shots of the full screen and the extra intended detail would still be visible on the CRT, it's only zoomed in because it's the focal point of their comparison, maybe a red circle would be more your speed?

>>7898582
so expand the image then sit back another foot or two from your screen

>>7898565
It's too bad so many image folks don't understand what's obvious to audio engineers.

Did you know most cinema projectors have the same resolution as your tv at home? Pixels are point samples, not units of area.

>>7898675
It seems like the community is slowly coming around to the notion that RGB is not always king.

SoTN running on a PS2 using component cables and a Trinitron looks a lot better in real life than you can capture on camera.

>>7898565
>teeth
pretty sure his mouth is closed

>>7898653
>You could show comparison shots of the full screen and the extra intended detail would still be visible on the CRT
But that's my point. When you make a small sprite like this your focal point, the pixel-perfect image invariably comes off looking better because it's not blurry. But the picture on the right wouldn't be half as blurry if you were sitting a couple of feet from an average sized television instead of seeing it this close.
>>7898671
Well yes, that works too. But I'm not a pixel fag anyway, so I'm not the one that needs convincing. I'm just saying I don't think these comparisons aren't really doing CRTs justice when they hone in one sprite like this.

>>7898582
that image looks to scale with what it looks like on a CRT though

>>7898565
>teeth
lmao there aren't any teeth in this image, see the high res original for comparison

stop looking for the details that aren't there, filter faggot

>>7898706
well it's not a filter
and the eyes are obviously an improvement

>>7898706
was thinking the same thing
instead of playing the game he was just looking at the blurred image looking for details

>>7898706
I clicked the thread to post this. The blur distorted the image so much that the viewer could no longer interpret it correctly. The single red pixels on the eyes are the same thing. The eyes are not supposed to be red, it's just a reflection of red light. Sharp pixels are obviously superior.

>>7898565
Yeah but I dont care

>>7898565
hell yeah it does. i dont mind playing on a computer screen if im not home and i have my laptop, but i have a consumer grade trinitron, its perfect pixel smoothness. none of that pvm bullshit that basically looks like a flat screen if youre honest with yourself. most of em are so damn small it creates the illusion of pixel blending. get a 30inch one if you fucking can find one and its definitely not the same as a consumer grade crt.

>>7898582
agreed. just look at the thumbnail. this is around the scale you'll see it at on a screen. right simply looks like blurrier left. sure, it will add smoothness, but at the expense of blurriness. to some, this tradeoff is worth it. to others, not so much.

>>7898565
>Blows up image to scale no one would ever look at it
>Sharpens one and blurs the other
>Find details not even there
lol, some retards will forever be retarded.

>>7898774
Grasping for straws. He misinterpreted the upper lip as a row of teeth, but the error is present in either version. The right is clearly superior to left and obviously the developers were aware that their art would be displayed with the effect.

>>7898706
Thanks for posting this, Twitterfag OP BTFO. /vr/ ill needs a blurfag such as him.

>>7898837
I'm nearsighted as fuck and never interpreted his portrait as showing teeth, get over it.

>>7898721
I think he assumed the bottom lip were his teeth, like he was smiling

>>7898820
>Blows up image to scale no one would ever look at it
how is that blown up?

>>7898875
This image is 277 x 312 pixels. The PSX's resolution is 56×224 to 640×240 progressive, 256×448 to 640×480 pixels interfaced. No matter what the size of the screen is in SotN, Dracula would take up less screen space than that. Even if you were playing on, say, a 50" CRT, you'd probably sit far back enough that a sprite that size would come off looking that blurry.

>>7898901
>The PSX's resolution is 56×224
*256

>>7898901
If your image was smaller than that image appears on my screen on your old tv, I feel sorry for you

>>7898695
>psx
>chumponent
>trannytron
kek dilate

>>7898901
CRTs aren't LCDs. When a 240p image gets blown up on a CRT the chromatic aberration and other artifacts do the work. Most pixel artists rely on this. That is the point the guy in the OP is making.

>>7899000
>most pixel artists rely on this
Actually, this varies quite widely, case by case.

>>7898591
>lag-free
>to an image?
Of course not. An "image" takes roughly 1/60 of a second to send/draw. By the time you have your complete "image" you already have that much lag. Even if you limit your "image" to data for adjacent pixels you get a minimum of 3 lines lag. This probably isn't a deal breaker considering your display already has massively more. And it could be done with something like OSSC if it had enough memory.

>>7899000
This is just one of things that attracts a lot of cope and seethe, on the opposite end of the spectrum are the TV production monitor crowd playing chronotrigger on a 15 inch tv production monitor.
Playing silent hill 3 on my dead great grandfather's black and white TV was awesome

>>7898582
shut up nig just look at the length of famicom or super famicom gamepad cords

>>7898591
bilinear filtering is enough... nobody even plays it with sharp pixels, idk why this comparison is made

>>7899048
based casual racism poster

>>7898985
you can't be this stupid right?

>>7898706
>original hand drawn art
actually looks... worse? look at that droopy eye socket lmao

>>7898565
Does anybody actually play composite from 5th gen onwards?
I mean, don't you go with RGB?
ignorant btw

>>7899067
S-video looks totally fine but fuck if there are any TV's that supported it

DIshonest blurshitters always blow up the native res with nearest neighbor then compare it with what the image would look like if you looked at it 2 inches from the TV.

>>7899090
I remember if you held the zapper straight up to the TV you'd ace duck hunt everytime

>>7899053
you can't be this stupid right?

>>7898565
>>7898706
Hold the fuck on
His eyes are not even fucking red in the art
This faggot just proved that blurry meshed shit is not how developers intended for a character to look

>>7899116
keep coping 2.8 seconds lag-let

>creepy laser eye Dracula
vs
>DUDE WEED LMAO Dracula

No contest

>>7899048
I... what?

>>7899176
They're like 30cm long

>>7898565
>>7898706
i was about to scold you but for fuck's sake he really did say teeth in the last line. Why does this retard have to sabotage an obvious-superiority showing comparison (with the eyes) with his retardation? He actually made you guy seem right now. Not that your pic is proof there just obviously aren't teeth i can't fucking believe he wrote that. This guy is like a false-flagger or something.
If he's not he needs to fucking step down and stop doing damage

>>7898565
i fuckin fully prefer composite (square pixelfags die) but lol he really thinks that this dude's sticking hit teeth out like jc denton fuck off

>>7899212
kek

>caring more about graphics than gameplay
It's fun on both screens.

>>7898692
You mean coping Americans are convincing themselves that they aren't losing out on much nicer looking graphics?

>>7899212
for future shitposting purposes

>>7899212
>>7899362
kek

>>7899212
>my vision is augmented

Bullshit, making comparison with portraits is irrelevant, since they make only a small portion of the screen, they can't represent how a game really look on CRT and LCD.

And in first place zooming into pixels is a retard thing to do no matter how you put it.

>>7899242
>muh graphics don't matter
the ultimate cope
they're not called "video" games for a reason

>>7899242
>muh graphics don't matter
the ultimate cope
they're called "video" games for a reason

>>7899095
It always shot 5 inches to the right for me.

>>7898701
But it doesn't come off looking better, and that's what the post/image is showing.
It looks "sharper" but it loses a lot of the effect like the red eyes, which is why the image on the right is superior.

>>7898565
You can literally get the same results with shaders.

>pixelfaggot

The only way not to see pixels it to turn off your screen. God CRTfags are so dumb.

>>7899437
Look here kiddo, there's a reason we're called "gamers" and not "videos".

>>7899212
fukken saved

>>7899575
This looks like shit, which is actually pretty close to what I remember my cheap CRT looking, so pretty good shader!

>>7898565
Now THIS is Autism.

>>7898565
I never claimed pixels were objectively better unless we were talking Doom. I'm just autistic enough to enjoy the pixels more, even in the example you just showed.
:P

>>7898582
Is right, zooming makes all the difference. I'm looking at this on my phone, and up close the CRT looks better, but what I hold it at arm's length, the pixel perfect effect looks better


>>7898653
Red dots are good for identification inst ad of circles, like the dot above your house on the government sexual predator map

>>7899212
I kek'd and even had to show this to my gf. Thanks for saving this thread. Also, I saved your pic for my future shitposts

>>7899362
Thank you

>>7899049
Bilinear sucks dick without scanlines and mask to help it
want a bad example of Bilinear?

DOOM

>>7899053
Its the same faggot indie dev shitposter who was derailing the /v/ thread

and is a kiwifag

>>7899212
"You steal men's souls and make them your slaves!"
"SURRRRRRRE."

I love these threads. Watching CRT hipster faggots get BTFO never gets old.

>>7900195
The only one inciting CRT vs non CRT here its you aberration of nature with no dick

Social media posts as threads should be banned

>>7899212
>>7899362
i kekked

>>7898817
The thumbnails use interpolation - as opposed to nearest neighbor upscaling - to make it look less blurry. Of course the thumbnail will make the images look more similar.

>>7899000
>the chromatic aberration and other artifacts do the work
It's not just artefacting, CRTs have a totally different way of upscaling than LCDs. There are very few things in common regarding how CRT and LCD technology works.

>>7899362
hehehehe

And now for Belmont

just testing stuff

>>7900195
where do you see that?

>>7900090
what the fuck are you smoking?

>>7900656
>>7900650
what are you trying to show here?

>>7900660
Don't worry about it.

>>7900616
This one is the best, if that's what you want to know.

>>7898565
texture filtering sucks and so does this bullshit 99% of the time. the eyes being one pixel looks like shit but thats it

>>7900673
lol no, this one is >>7900628

>>7900673
>>7900667

>>7900619
Best

>>7898565
the pixel art looks better than scan version

>>7899195
What does have to do with >>7898582? Nobody in this thread is Japanese. We all grew up with longer cords than the nips got.

>>7900671
Looks perfect.

>>7900730
it looks like garbled shit worse than console fps sprites

>>7900672
As much as I hate to say it, this might be the best interpretation of the original among all the others up to >>7900696.
Bilinear filters usually look like ass, but more often than not it's the closest you can get to CRT accuracy level of interpolation. The eyes are a dead giveaway.

>>7899049
bilinear filtering is perceived as much blurrier though, whereas if you have some kind of scanline/grill simulation we perceive it as sharper. A lot like how film grain makes soft images look higher detail.

>>7898565
>DUDE LOOK AT ME USING HOMOPHOBIC SLURS DO I FIT IN YET LMAO
No and you never will.
>>>/v/

this thread is making me want to get into castlevania. i would normally play games in release order but there's so many in this series... can i just play SotN?

>>7900828
bait or newest newfag?

>>7900839
Shills in overdrive, just report and ignore.

>>7898565
the ass that broke /vr/

>>7900872
This really is the end-all and be-all of pixels vs. CRT arguments, isn't it? I'd like to see pixelfags try to rebound from this.

>>7900909
>>7899090

>>7900609
I like it like this, because it makes it look not like his eyes are entirely red, but rather just the irises and/or pupils are, and a stark bright red, which is a more distinct and uncanny look.

>>7900836
You can go ahead. There are multiple different kinds of Castlevanias, first one was a straight action platformer, second went for a kind of halfbaked open world approach, third goes back to action platformer, but has divergent paths and lets you play different characters.

With SOTN, they did sort of an open world thing again, adding RPG style stat building and equipment usage, with Metroid's style of acquiring abilities to progress and explore further (hence the moniker "Metroidvania"). This was very popular, and the later titles on the GBA and DS go by this formula, some people seethe a lot about this, because that means no more traditional platformers like the 8-bit and 16-bit titles, but I like the varying directions the series took (except the pachinko shit).

If you end up liking 'Metroidvanias' I strongly suggest trying out the 'Classicvanias' as well.

>>7900872
is this real? what game is this from so i can see for myself?

>>7900914
>nearest neighbor
I assume what that means in laymans terms is that its an accurate upscale of the sprite, because that's what it looks like to me. If not, pic related certainly is since I just kept doubling it till I got to 750 x 1332.
>then compare it with what the image would look like if you looked at it 2 inches from the TV.
If anything that should HELP the pixelfags' argument by hurting the CRTfags' argument (since they're unrealistically up-close and blurry comparisons). But it absolutely doesn't in this case, and the girl's buttocks look beautifully smooth.
>>7900941
FFVI. Quickest way to find the sprite is here: https://tcrf.net/Final_Fantasy_VI#Graphics

>>7900456
pixelfags btfo
composite master race for life

>>7898565
>and teeth

Uh... What teeth? His mouth is closed. The eyes look pretty cool though.

>>7900916
>i like it because it looks bad, i can pretend that its meant to look like that, to look 'uncanny'
this is your brain on square pixels

>>7900671
This is perfect.

>>7900872
Really cool example because it's easy to see how the crt is adding sub pixel detail to what would otherwise be low information. It also doesn't do this indiscrimanately, It blends bright areas into dark areas and thins the outlines. The abberation adds color complexity so you don't notice the limited pallete so much.

>>7900672
I like this one.

This is my Trinitron, I honestly don't see much of a difference between this and my OSSC with Scanlines from a distance.

>>7901132
Just to illustrate my point, this is my OSSC

>>7898565
You will never fit in and you're a coward for reporting me. I might not agree with your use of slurs but I NEVER will report you. Fucking shithead.

>>7901146
And this is my Trinitron. The colours got washed out somehow, it looks much better in person. But my point stands that they look very similar from a distance.

>>7901132
I don't doubt what you say but the CRT is going to have better response time resulting in smoother motion for sure, and very likely deeper color output, better contrast

>>7901105
Whatever it's meant to look like doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's readable and aesthetically pleasing to me, consideration for developer intentions are overrated.

And yeah, uncanny, it's an absurd, almost dreamlike visual, the eyes look just a little bit more recognizably human, yet there's a very unnatural element to them. With fully red eyes it has less detail and definition, and looks a lot less human and more like a generic stylized monstrous feature. Is that what the developers intended? I don't know, and I don't care.

It certainly doesn't look bad to me, but maybe it's because I don't tend to consciously read sharp and clear pixels as being made from a bunch of perfect squares, my brain glosses over that and looks at the visual elements as a whole, which is why I don't really see stuff like dithering (as either shading or for transparency) as a square mesh.

>>7901146
>>7901151
Damn, I was thinking of getting a Retrotink5x when they're back in stock, but I didn't know OSSC could look this good.

>>7901182
OSSC is a better buy in most ways

>>7900872
One on the left is clearly the best. Looks like the pixel art I buy on etsy. Did I mention how unique and edgy I am? Let me start by telling you my pronouns.

>>7901182
Keep in mind that you need the $100 Koryuu to get those results on top of the $250 OSSC. But yeah, the Koryuu's S-video performance destroys the RT5X.

>>7899575
What shader?

>>7900090
>kiwifag
Absolutely disgusting.
Matama is best girl.

RGB look on a consumer CRT > RGB look on a PVmeme > clean pixel from emu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> composhite

OP is a flambant fag lol
Also
>twatter
Neck urself, OP

RF is the only right way to play

>>7900687
lookin' good

>>7901273
It's crt-royale-ntsc-composite with a few modifications to make it look better at 4k.
Here is my config if you want: https://pastebin.com/rE99WMFw

>>7900872
Left looks better in the thumbnail
Blown out to 1088x746 they both look cancerous

>>7901771
how many times are you going to post this?
are you an ant?

>>7901813
Do you sit two inches from the screen?

>>7901984
Do you even see your screen?

>>7898565
>pixels
PC monitor gaming was big large obvious pixels

But for TV gaming , Composite is the way it's meant to be prayed.

>>7901687
composite, tryhard

COMPOSHITE aopologists are 100% burgers who never get the chance to try and see what RGB look in person. Poor delusional souls.

>>7902106
I have both and they both have downsides

>>7900672
best one

>>7899090
>ANON, DON'T SIT SO CLOSE TO THE TV! THOSE MICROWAVES WILL FRY YOUR BRAIN

>>7902171
They’ll fry your retinas for sure sitting that close, they are X-rays

>>7898565
This faggot is posting from a PVM, remember. Consumer CRT would look very differently.

>>7902395
>Posting from a pvm
>has pics of him posting his other models at his workshop
>is buddies with retroUSA who finds and restores CRT

Desperate arent you?
Is this butthurt because of that garbage overrated game known as MYST and its shitty PS1 source port?

WHO GIVES A FUCK JUST PLAY THE GAJME

>>7902461
i'm pc only, but i get the feeling these threads are for filter advocates to jerk each other off while the vast majority JUST FUCKING PLAYS with regular-ass emulation that looks like the left pic in the OP. I'd think I'd get a migraine after a while looking at the righthand one. It's kind of a truc de loeil.

>>7902395
Sony KV-13M51 is not a PVM

>>7902712
Shills doesn't know what TV Model numbers are

>here's your native resolution on CRT mario bro

>>7898582
Based. This killed the ctrfaggots.

>>7903023

>>7899575
Any other good shaders for 2D games?

>>7902461
people don't like playing /vr/ games, they just like to look at them

I bought a sealed Saturn version of SotN for $329 last month, is this cringe or based

>>7904926
Cringe as hell, especially if you unsealed it.

>>7898627
What kind of a response is this, like what kind of a socially inept lard lord do you have to be to think it’s ok to respond this way? What’s your problem? Jesus fuck I hope you die in a car accident

>>7900671
That looks gorgeous. What shader is this?

>>7900660
He's literally just comparing filters.

>>7904940
>spending too much money on a boxed game
>opening it anyways
Kind of a chad move desu

>>7900671
it seems Blargg NTSC Composite on top of CRT Easymode