/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7875752
It was serious fun back in the day I'm sure, anon.
Imagine you had no other options. There were arcades, but it was all electro-mechanical and you could not bring any of them home, unless you were loaded.
So you had that. Imagination would still work hand and hand with games for several years to come, but arguably came to an end with later NES titles.
Oblig:
https://cinemassacreold.website-us-east-1.linodeobjects.com/2009/04/21/the-odyssey/

>>7875752
>plastic screen overlays for your CRT
LOL here's your graphics bro

really helps you appreciate the options we have today

some old systems are fun to go back to and play
the original odyssey is not one of them

>>7875768
>Imagination would still work hand and hand with games for several years to come, but arguably came to an end with later NES titles.
I've heard some pretty lame cope over the years, but this...

>>7875781
I feel bad for you. Never getting the chills from Cloudy Mountain's dragon, never getting surprised by a demon in one if its labyrinths. Sad stuff!

>>7875793
yeah, it's ok man, I'm good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_nT2X9iEdw

It was either this, or board games.

>>7875752
>kids react

>>7875793
Zoomers have been stripped of their ability to imagine things, its a symptom of being exposed to too much modern media.

>>7875930
True. They can be helped if they just stop using their phones for a week or two. Maybe.

>>7875776
The Odyssey was arguably not even a "video game". It came with all kinds of pack in items that were more like board game accessories for things like keeping score. It made the Odyssey itself more like an electronic tool that was part of a game rather than the game itself. Kind of like those interactive dungeon master VHS tapes that would issue commands as you played the game.

>>7876556
>fortnite was arguably not even a "video game" it required all kinds of items like a computer and screen.

>>7875752
its literally the beginning of videogames as you know it faggot.


i collected one on a whim to park next to my odyssey2 & honestly
its good. it doesnt keep score & has more board(drinking) games than anything

but "tennis" is excellent
in person with two players
it really is outstandingly good

im very glad i have one

>>7877057
also nintendo made the light gun for the system

ever heard of nintendo you fucking faggots?

2600 was better

I'm so sick of calling the first generation of gaming "gen 2" solely because this fucking thing exists that nobody owned.

>>7877786
Hey, Coleco Telstar alone sold over a million units. The first gen had numerous consoles.

>>7876919
You know damn well that's not a good analogy. If you'd ever played an Odyssey you'd know it doesn't actually have a game in it. You just change what the game pieces do on screen and do all the calculations of things like scoring by hand.

>>7877786
You think that's fucked up? People call both Atari 2600 and Atari 5200 "second gen." What fucking nonsense is that?

>>7877786
Video game consoles started with the 2600 and nobody can change my headcannon.

>>7877960
>headcannon

>>7877907
The real travesty is that ColecoVision is considered second gen while Sega SG-1000 is called third gen.
They are 90% the same hardware.

>>7877889
These aren't consoles. These are television accessories.

>>7877960
Exactly, all the gens need to subtract 1, first generation should be gen 0.

>>7877960
Not a fan of Channel F?

>>7877989
>Exactly, all the gens need to subtract 1, first generation should be gen 0.
I fully endorse this.

>>7877057
>tennis is excellent
that's literally the only game. everything else is tennis with a skin on it.

>>7877962
https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-1132-j

ignore the pride logo, site got pozzed and pretty much all of us are annoyed about it.

>>7876919
Stfu

>>7877979
The Colecovision was straight up billed as third gen when it came out. Everyone knew that the "second gen" of Atari 2600 and Intellivision was being supplanted by the next wave of systems, the 5200, Colecovision and Vectrex.

The only reason they get lumped in with the previous generation is because zoomers insist on factoring the crash of 83 into the calculus when it's entirely irrelevant. All it meant was that those systems died early, not that they weren't the same generation as the Famicom/NES. It'd be like lumping the Dreamcast in with the Saturn/PS1/N64 just because it died earlier than planned.

I've had conversations on Wikipedia over this but the people there refuse to listen. Probably because it would be too much work to change all the articles.

>>7877989
What the hell does "Gen 0" mean? That's like saying it didn't exist.

>>7878198
We need to make our own video game history website, bar none. The anon who suggested subtracting generations is right and making Odyssey generation zero and it's perfectly appropriate.
wikipedia is a political arm anyway.

>>7878208
It's prehistory. Prehistory still exists even if it's before where we actually start reckoning history.

>>7878208
It makes perfect sense. The Odyssey transmitted a video signal, it didn't generate graphics. DIFFERENCE.

>>7878216
Also there was a year zero because of the way they restarted time after the birth of Christ.
That means the new millennium started in 2001, not 2000.
Sorry to stray a bit, just making a point that a Generation 0 is perfectly fine and is logical.

>>7878224
there was no year 0. The year before anno domini was 1 BC.

>>7878217
Right but why can't that just be gen 1? Calling it gen 0 feels like some anal retentive shit.

>>7878227
Only because they created "B.C.", anon. Get it now? But you're right in the sense that because of the Gregorian Calendar, "there was no year zero", but there really was because of course there was a year before it. lol

>>7878228
>Calling it gen 0 feels like some anal retentive shit.
Do you know where you are?

>>7878228
Because they're not consoles, bro. You can't call everything that puts a light on a screen a console.

>>7878224
We're locked into BC/AD time because of a lot of complex history. Nothing like that is a factor here. We know where to start counting from so starting with "1" is the easiest solution. If you want to talk "gen 0" you might be talking Tennis for Two, which is definitely not a video game but did start the ball rolling. But you don't even have to use a zero. It's just pre-video game technology that lead to video games. Like the invention of television.

>>7878239
Thy don't have to be "consoles" to be a video game though.

was odyssey before home pong consoles?

>>7878254
Yes. It was the first consumer product that could be called a video game.

>>7878247
>We know where to start counting from so starting with "1" is the easiest solution
Ok, this mind exercise will help:

Look at your hands and count the decade that is the 1980s. On each finger call out a year, 1980, 1981;etc. weird huh?

>>7878215
I'd be game to just get a bunch of people together to change every relevant article all at once. Trying to change one thing and then negotiating about how everything else needs to change to correspond to it, no matter how much sense it makes, always results in a reversion. That kind of coordination, to get like 20 people together, seems impossible though.

>>7878252
This whole thread is about home console generations though, not the history of individual video games (and even that is debatable with the odyssey), which we already know existed in arcades before home consoles.

>>7878271
>I'd be game to just get a bunch of people together to change every relevant article all at once.
I'll help, just tell me how to do it as I'm an idiot with their system.

>>7878254
Yes the chronology is like that:
- The Odyssey
- Home Pong, Odyssey 100 series, Coleco Telstar and other AY-3-8500-based clones of Tennis
- Fairchild Channel F and RCA Studio II
Then Atari VCS came out and kicked the industry into serious action

>>7878264
That's not the same thing. You don't start counting a row of apples with "zero, one, two..."

>>7878281
I was just explaining how there was no year zero and that there also was.

>>7878274
I don't think "home console" generation means it's limited to the definition of a console. There are tons of video game machines with built in screens that we rightfully include in the generations but aren't consoles.

>>7878289
We're not counting years though. We're counting generations. 1980 has a zero in it but it's not the zeroth year of the 80s, it's the first year.

>>7878296
>1980 has a zero in it but it's not the zeroth year of the 80s, it's the first year.
The point is flying right over your head, man. Look at your sentence there. Yes, 1980 is the FIRST year of the 1980s, but 1981, the SECOND year of the 1980s doesn't have a number two in it.

So, when thinking of console generations, it's best to think of them like decades because just 1980 is the last year of the 1970s*, so can the Odyssey be Generation 0.

*This is a fact because of the Gregorian calendar.

>>7878296
>1980 has a zero in it but it's not the zeroth year of the 80s, it's the first year.
The point is flying right over your head, man. Look at your sentence there. Yes, 1980 is the FIRST year of the 1980s, but 1981, the SECOND year of the 1980s doesn't have a number two in it.
So, when thinking of console generations, it's best to think of them like decades because just as 1980 is the last year of the 1970s*, so can the Odyssey be Generation 0.
*This is a fact because of the Gregorian calendar.


fixed

>>7878304
I think you're the one missing the point. You're using Gregorian calendar fuckery, which you're not even correct about because again there was no year zero, to argue that if we're starting with the first generation of video games we should start with a zero instead of a one. That makes no sense. George Washington was not the zeroth president.

>>7878307
>there was no year zero
Oh dear God.

>>7878307
Just showing you how to make the Odyssey Generation Zero and have it make sense.

>>7878306
This just means that the first decade of AD was only 9 years long. 1AD-9AD. An offset was applied so that the "0" of 1980 represents a 10, not a zero.

>>7878315
>This just means that the first decade of AD was only 9 years long.
No, a decade is always ten.

So, agreeing that zero is a value, and also agreeing that the Odyssey was nearly nothing in terms of "video games"....

>>7878312
And it doesn't make sense. Why does the Gregorian calendar even have to factor? How we count the years has no bearing on what number to start at when labeling things in a series. You just want to force this gen 0 nonsense because you don't like that the Odyssey and dedicated pong machines count.

>>7878316
Ok, then what was the first decade?

You mean our calendar is imperfect? What a shock. We have to add a new day every four years to fix it.

>>7878320
>Why does the Gregorian calendar even have to factor?
It's a mental tool to help you see how zero has a value and that calling the Atari 2600 Generation 1 makes perfect sense because of the very low value, in a word, of the Odyssey, in terms of what video game are intrinsically.

>>7878316
Then 1980 is not the first year of the 80s but the last year of the 70s. It'd be 1AD-10AD, 11AD-20AD, etc.

>>7878326
So you're just making a value judgment, got it.

>>7878328
>Then 1980 is not the first year of the 80s but the last year of the 70s
Yes, technically, but not in practice. So if we can be flexible with how we perceive our calendar, we can perceive video game generations in a similar manner.

>>7878332
Yes. Using zero as a pun as well. It works.

>>7878335
>The centuries old calendar is fucked and therefore so should everything else we count.

>>7878325
>Ok, then what was the first decade?
Technically 0BC-9AD because of how the Gregorian calendar works. Some go against that.

>>7878340
What happened during 0BC?

>>7878338
Just showing how zero is a real number in terms of how we view history and other things, of course you can't count apples starting with zero.

>>7878347
People weren't playing video games?
But really they called it "1BC", even though they created "1AD" as well.

>>7878351
Generations in this context is the same as apples. The year those generations correspond to isn't material to how to count them as individual "objects."

>>7878360
Right but then 2 BC becomes -1 BC. You're just applying an offset. There's no reason to apply such an offset when counting a known number of things.

>>7878362
I knew you'd say that, but just get over it. Call the Odyssey Gen 0, Luke, join the dark side. It's cooler with better uniforms and ships.

Hi guys I'm the one that started the gen 0 nonsense, I'm sorry about that. I didn't mean to suggest that it could be analogous to a calendar or a year. The other guy's point is basically "it's just the number before 1" which I do agree with, but I was basically joking about calling it gen 0. If we had to make it fit to a calendar analogy the BC period would be more appropriate. Calling it the "pre-console generation" probably makes the most sense, as I believe it's valid to talk about the earliest video games, but I think all of these "first gen" consoles lack some very defining features of what a console actually is thought to be, which is usually a computer that generates graphics internally and has games in the form of removable media or distributable software.

>>7878378
>Calling it the "pre-console generation" probably makes the most sense
Fine, but then it makes more sense to call it Gen 0.

>>7878372
>There's no reason to apply such an offset when counting a known number of things.
Why not? We're taking generations, not pallets of TVs.

The hangup seems to be whether or not that set of machines are "consoles" but it's pretty clear that they have to be. Shit like the NES Classic is basically a modern version of a Pong console.

>this thread

>>7878380
But we don't actually think of "pre-x" as 0. 0 means non existence. If we're thinking of it as "the era before the first generation" we're saying this is 1 object that we are mentally counting, not a 0.

>>7878384
Look, people can count however they want. It's all made up. It took a long time for the concept of zero to even be invented. But conventions dictate that when you're counting things, whether they're physical or not, you start with 1. Someone who's the first of their family to be born in America is "first generation American." We don't start with their immigrant parents and say they're "zero generation American."

>>7878385
>Shit like the NES Classic is basically a modern version of a Pong console.
Not even close. A Pong console basically sent the most rudimentary video signal so as to be able to call it such, wheres an NES Classic is a mini computer.

>>7878394
>But we don't actually think of "pre-x" as 0.
I do.

>0 means non existence.
Not in computers, which made all video games.

>>7878394
Right, if it's pre-video games then it's just not counted at all. It's not a "generation" in the first place.

>>7878403
Clearly there was a generation of video games though before the console generation, they all need a name. The argument isn't whether there were pre-video games but pre-consoles. Pre-console acknowledges that they are excluded from counting but that they still existed, while 0 obviously means nothing.

>>7878396
>But conventions dictate that when you're counting things, whether they're physical or not, you start with 1.
Can you view video game *generations* as chunks of history that ought to ape binary code to acknowledge "pre-video game history"?

>>7878398
The technical specifications of what's going on under the hood has never really been factored in. The end result--what the thing does according to the end user--is. "I plug this into my TV and play a defined set of games." The technology driving the NES Classic is wildly different but the concept behind it as a consumer product is pretty much the same.

>>7878414
I see what you mean. That's verrrry thin, but I see.

>>7878409
Are there pre-consoles? Either something is a console or it isn't. "Pre-console" is a vague in-between concept that doesn't really need to be a thing. Either the Odyssey is a video game console or it isn't. Either it's "gen 1" or it's literally not a video game and belongs to no generation at all. That's the most elegant way to approach it.

Video game pre-history (what would predate the number 1? Hmmmmm...)

>>7878429
>Either it's "gen 1" or it's literally not a video game and belongs to no generation at all
This can be easily resolved by agreeing that because the Odyssey had no graphic or sound to speak of, it was literally generation zero of "video games" because it had a video signal and essentially nothing--NOTHING (non-value)--else.

>>7878437
No, it wouldn't get a label then. It's not a generation at all in that case.

>>7878429
It's not a console, but video games (in the loosest sense of displaying a light on a screen) did exist before home consoles existed so pre-console video games are not an unnecessary category to think about.

>>7878440
>It's not a generation at all in that case.
Why? We all agree (well most of us) that cavemen were humans, but not really, really us kind of humans.

>>7878443
At that point though we'd be blending the line between video game history and general television/computer history. At some point you have to draw a line. I'm not going to say where that line has to be but it's going to be somewhere.

>>7878443
>>7878452
The sole difference of the Odyssey was that it let consumers manipulate the video signal. TV studio techs already could do that stuff.

>>7878452
I'm going to say the line is that a console is a mini computer with internal graphics that has removable media or distributable software. This covers every generation from 2 and on, and acknowledges that video games could still exist without this hardware, though they were not on consoles originally.

This is the best thread btw. Proud of /vr/

>>7878464
Fair enough. I think you run into problems with placing stuff like Game & Watch and Tiger handhelds though.

It takes the term "video games" very literally. Games as they existed in the 1970s but using a video screen.

>>7875752
> pre-japanese industry takeover
I mean what did you expect

ITT: people who only know it from watching a youtoober

>>7878858
take a picture of yours.

>>7878098
wrong


rewatch youtube since thats apparently your only source of information

framerater @ haunted house is your spoonfeeding for the day

>>7877063

>>7880025
i mean, technically he's not wrong
although the molds were just repurposed

>>7875793
Children dont use their brain anymore anon havent you heard?

>>7878103
This is a site for fictional story-telling? What the fuck. Never seen anything like this

>>7878291
>I don't think "home console" generation means it's limited to the definition of a console
It is though. Only consoles and handhelds count.
The Sega Model 2 is not in any generation.

>>7880819
This is especially so for the black kids.

>>7880871
Why carve an exception just for handhelds and not arcade machines? A lot of arcade boards are pretty console-like anyway. The Neo Geo literally so.

>>7880541
Dudelet. Why?

>>7878291
>rightfully include in the generations
Why?

>>7875752

The impact on being able to CONTROL what happens on your screen cannot be understated. Even if it were just a few squares, HOLY SHIT I CONTROL THAT SQUARE I TURN THE KNOB AND IT MOVES!

>>7881086
Define "console."

>>7881125
1. Pong
2. VCS
2. NES
3. SNES
4. PSX
5. PS2
6. XBOX 360
7. WII
8. PS4
9. PS5
How can handhelds fit in that timeline?
And why does modern “experts” include them?

>>7881152
The hiccup is that modern consoles like the PS5 have more in common with PCs than they do retro consoles like SNES. Then you add stuff like tablets (and Switch) in the mix and it all gets very vague.

>>7878215
IMO, the guy you replied to might have something with saying the systems he mentioned are part of gen 3, but, c'mon, there's no reason to make up a, "gen 0." Gen 1 started with the Magnavox Odyssey and included all of the early Pong consoles, and then gen 2 started with the Fairchild Channel F. Doesn't that make the most sense?

>>7878414
I think a better term is, "dedicated console." "Pong consoles," usually have extremely primitive graphics and play some variation(s) of Pong with maybe a, "shoot the moving dot," game or two, and plug and play consoles usually run on batteries and the only cables you need are the AV cables, and both of those things are dedicated consoles, but I don't think all dedicated consoles are Pong consoles or plug and play consoles.

>>7877786
>solely because this fucking thing
First gen is first gen solely because pong and it’s hundreds of clone consoles

>>7878198
>The Colecovision was straight up billed as third gen when it came out
The article bills it as a “video game”, not as a console. Journalism, journalism never changes.

>>7875752
My first console was a 2600 but when the NES came out I never looked back. I had fun with it tho and people had fun with their old 70's pong machines too.

>>7880867
Grew out of a bunch of /x/ threads once upon a time, back when that board wasn't a bunch of larping zoomers, succubus threads, and actual schizophrenics.

You'd take a spooky image (various kinds of modern art can be useful), anything that looks unsettling and like it could be dangerous if it was haunted/magical, and then you'd write a tiny short story about it, describing its containment procedures initially, then describing a little about what it is, and whatever known history and how it was acquired by "The Foundation" which keeps it. Not all of it was written with a picture as a frame of reference though, and instead is just made up on the spot, possibly having a picture added later (if ever).
This ended up growing a lot, and there were quite a lot of great little short stories written, a lot which is still around on that site today in the "1000 series" The site and community went through its changes over the years, some good, some bad. If you like short form horror (or horror-ish) stories, there's a lot of good old stuff on there.

Some of the more popular stories are pretty strongly derivative of stuff by H.P Lovecraft and Clark Ashton Smith, they're nice, i not very original, but there's some much more original content as well.

>>7877898
>>7878149

>7877898
>7878149
Imagine, if you will, a world where a little monster controls everything.
kwab

>>7877786
>calling the first generation of gaming "gen 2"
I assume mean calling the second generation of gaming gen 2 then, right?

We all (who have a pulse) have differences in what terminology should be used, that doesn't mean you get to just call things whatever you like or what you think suits it best faggot. It's gen 2 whether you like it or not, whether it's appropriate or not. You don't just go around calling things what you feel like nigger, using a term doesn't imply you agree with its terminology.