/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7864576
I don't believe the game would have been better on NES. You have to take the timeline into account, the A devs wouldn't have accepted to work on the NES at that point, so we'd just have gotten another MM5/6.

>>7864630
It doesn't matter what anyone thinks, it exists in pseudo 8 bit form now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85wywCX61Ss

>>7864632
and that version is worse than the original game. It feels completely devoid of enemies because of the scale difference. The SNES version has fewer enemies, a slower pacing, and more spongey enemies, exactly because of the scale. If you change the scale for NES but transpose everything else as is it makes no sense.

>>7864632
I'm aware it exists. Though some things from the SNES original are missing like the shop and ruined city/museum levels

>>7864630
Mega Man never had "A" devs, it was always the cheapest option. The planner of Mega Man 5 was also the planner of Mega Man X1 and X2 and 7 were made by a team of freshly graduated programmers, most notably Takuya Aizu, whose experience during the development of 7 was so shit, he quit shortly there after and took the new greenhorns with him to make Inti Creates, as a result leading to X3 to be outsourced while inner development for Mega Man got solved (i.e. "who can do it for the cheapest?")

>>7864632
>15 FPS video
>some retard "let's play" babbling the entire time
KYS.

>>7864576
It's a good game. A flawed game, but still a good game.

>>7864642
Inti Creates didn't exist until decades after x2 was finished.

>>7864671
grabbed the first vid I could find as proof that it existed. create something.

>>7864695
>Decades
Nigger,can you even math?
Inti was founded on 1996, a few months after the 1995 release of X2, their first game was Power Speed Gunbike on PS1, a Japan only game. They just didn't had worldwide notoriety until Mega Man Zero in 2001, and Inafune according to interviews had to do a lot of begging to his bosses to allow "traitors" to touch the Mega Man IP once more.

>>7864695
Repost because I'm sure a janny with delete my previous post for "racism outside /b/".

Inti was founded on 1996, a few months after the 1995 release of X2, their first game was Power Speed Gunbike on PS1, a Japan only game. They just didn't had worldwide notoriety until Mega Man Zero in 2001, and Inafune according to interviews had to do a lot of begging to his bosses to allow "traitors" to touch the Mega Man IP once more.

7's only real "problem" is that it feels more like the Game Boy games than the NES ones. It's kind of weird and I don't like the 4x4 robot master style that came into vogue but its an adequate entry. It's just an odd man out because it's the only game of its style in a franchise known for consistency.

>>7864768
The non-standard stage selection in MM&B made sense because it actually makes the game harder.

>>7864736
Based-chan, I kneel

>>7864630
Why are you saying another MM5/6 like they were bad?

>>7865089
The fandom is really autistic about 4, 5 and 6 being "bad games" even though they handle much more tighter than the original trilogy, especially 1 and 2 where Mega Man would always skid like he's constantly in ice physics (and I don't understand why they added that back even in the PSP remake)

>>7865805
They're not bad at all (for the record I don't think there's a single bad MM game from 1 to 11, they're all great except between comparisons), it's just that 5 and 6 are really fucking easy and streamlined. Apparently they were made as budget titles for kids who couldn't afford the next system and it really shows (but for some reason MM&B got the same treatment and it's one of the harder games)

>>7865906
They're only really easier because they hand you a near infinite supply of E tanks. And 5 drops free lives like candy. Mega Man 1-3 would be equally easy if you had an M tank handy.

>>7864576
If Capcom made those big sprites work on the NES, I just think more people would like it

>>7866032
Mega Man 3 is the easiest game out of all 6 games, Wily Stages are braindead easy and they give you E-Tanks and 1ups like free candy as well, while 5, Dark Man Stages, particularily Dark Man Stage 1, can be pretty imposing filter the first times around.

>>7866194
How the fuck is 3 easier than 2
Did you forget about Doc Robot

>>7866194
Really? I think 3 is the hardest of the six. The only contender would be maybe MM1 without the select trick but even then it's only like two or three things. MM3 has a dramatic difficulty spike once you hit the Doc Robot stages. It comes back down again for the Wily levels but still...

>>7866231
Doc Robot stages aren't that hard, by that point you have every tool under the sun to cheese them, mainly the broken Rush Jet.

>>7866434
Thing is, MM3, if you use Rush Jet and do short hops on it to save weapon energy, you can bypass a lot of things.

>>7866961
It's more the Doc Robots themselves than the stages. They're harder than their MM2 counterparts and you have to fight two in a stage, with weapons that are less broken than the MM2 set. It's a steep difficulty spike not too unlike MM7's Wily capsule.

>>7866032
2 is easy as hell.

>>7866996
While the weapon selection is less broken, you got increased mobility options thanks to the slide and Rush.
Sliding under Doc Robot Air Man's Air Shooter for example helps a lot.

>>7864632
>2009
*sip* yep, that was a year

>>7866996
Not to mention the idea of having to learn the Doc Robot weaknesses without looking it up. You'll get several game overs before you figure them out.

>>7867082
It still feels like Mega Man 9 and 10 are new games

>>7864642
Who the fuck cares? Minakuchi Engineering made the best X game, as well as the best Game Boy Mega Man games.

>>7867002
2 is gay as hell.

Post your classic ranking
9/11 > 10 > 7 > 2 > 4 > 1 > & Bass > 6 > 5 > 3/8

>>7867613
1>3>4>9>MM&B>2>6>10>5>7>8.

>>7866434
3 could be hard, if you brute force it with the buster alone. But every situation has the right tool to deal with it. Plus, it has the most overpowered version of Rush Jet ever, basically giving Mega Man the power to fly freely.

I like MM7 a lot. Maybe it was the novelty of the being the first proper sequel in a 16-bit machine, but it stuck with me. I also liked it the anime art style. The game also relies quite a lot on the use of the Rush Adapter, and I see people neglect it, thus making the game have an annoying level design. Just making sure you buy (or, better yet, dig up) the Hyper Rocket Buster.

>>7867213
Time is a mindfuck. Mega Man 9 is as old now as Mega Man 7 was when Mega Man 9 came out.

>>7867417
While I agree World 3, 4 and 5 are fantastic games in the series, X3 was really weak. It's not the best game. Not the worst, but not the best.

How the fuck did they manage to finish it in 3 months?

>>7864576
>MM5 had most reviewers telling capcom to move Mega Man to 16 bit already
>MM6 was released on a nearly dead system
>Resurrect the NES from it's grave for Mega Man 7

https://discord.gg/2RxXgEnjrM

>>7865805
>The fandom
No actual Mega Man fan discredits 4-6 for being "bad games". It's literally just the MM2 and MM3 babies who have played like one or two games and nothing else.

>>7868542
I want to agree with you, but even sites like The Mega Man Home Page call MM3 "the last Mega Man game that felt solid" and that makes my blood boil.

>>7868574
That site's been around for decades now and I always try to use sites like that over other shit, but when I read that I wanted to stop using it right then and there.

I like MM3 as much as the next guy, but "solid?" Fuck you.

>>7868582
That and MMBN4 has a much higher score than the first BN games. Mandy Paugh (the site's webmaster) already admited never doing the post games on BN games but rating BN4 higher purely because it's faster to play through? What the actual fuck?

>>7868574
That's fucking bs. Mega Man 3 is clearly unfinished, while 4 is actually the first polished Mega Man game in the franchise.

>>7869268
Not to mention MM3 is weird in ways that's inconsistent with what people expect from Mega Man. It's the only game of the six with two separate weakness loops. I think 3 is great and all but to say 4-6 are subpar is silly. 1-3 is where all the refinement happened. 4-6 is when the formula was firmly established.

Why are these so many people here who suck dicks (read: hate MM8)? It's a good game.

>>7869318
8 > 7 as far as I'm concerned.

>>7868574
>>7868582
>>7868585
I understand you all disliking people stating opinions as facts, it does suck, but it's nothing but opinions. I don't care if the author's views are not well-thought or articulated enough, I just focus on the content of what he publishes. In MMHP's case, I look if the info regarding the games are meaningful. That's where my criticisms lie: even though it's a website, the content is barely better formatted and organized than a txt FAQ. Sections are all over the place, you need to scroll back and forth a lot; lack of screenshots, even though emulators nowadays make it easy to do; confusing descriptions that aren't all that helpful, formatted no better than our 4chan posts.

Everything could be made better with plain old html and good writing skills. Doesn't need anything fancy.

For me the original six have me going through phases. I'll generally say 2, 3, and 5 are my favorites but it really depends. Like I know MM2 is one of the best of the original 6 but I've played it so much that I'm kind of getting tired of it. Then I play MM4 and because it's been a while it feels fresh and awesome. Then I get fucked by Bright Man and I'm mad at MM4 for a while. Then I play through 5 and the Proto Man castle starts to bore me so I don't finish. But then I go back to it a while later and remember why it's one of my favorite entries. And it just continues like this.

>>7869342
Bright Man is such bullshit, really.

>>7869429
Can't he just be nuked with Rain Flush? or am I misremembering?

>>7869494
Yeah, but it doesn't remove the fact that he has a completely unavoidable attack. If he freezes time, and decides to jump onto you, there is nothing you can do to prevent getting hit. His jump targets your position, too. Doing a no-damage fight requires insane luck.

Nah, 10 was the one with the electric sheep.

I just beat 9 and 10.
fuck 9.
If you have 9 in 'your list' at all, you can toss your opinion in the toilet. Because its shit.

>>7870007
what didn't you like about it? haven't beat it but it seems like a pretty standard megaman game to me

>>7869342
based, 3 and 5 are my favorite. why do you like 2? is it just cause normal mode and saw blades make it easy? I honestly think once you get down the mechanics of mega man 1 it's all time top 3 for sure.

>>7864576

>>7870043
What he's trying to say is he got filtered

>>7870043
What he's trying to say is he kept jumping into spikes and pits because he can't assess jump distances that are always the same

>>7870007
9 is better than 10 so I'm calling bullshit on your entire post

>>7870549
I'd go so far as to call 10 borderline bad. At least the 8 stages are pretty garbage. The game is saved by a great Wily Castle. It's easily near the bottom of my list.

>>7868585
MMBN4 truly has its downsides for sure. Things such as the artificial asteroid from an unknown alien civilization that programmed it to destroy species deemed to be "too evil" being treated as a B-plot for most of the game's course. They could have made the post-game locked until you obtain all of the first run's normal, Mega, DS, and Giga Chips. Also, I genuinely think that the translators should have called Double Soul mechanic "TwinSoul" so as not to scrunch up against the battlechip info character limit. Its also interesting that BN 4, to the extent that I've played it boasts a total of only 150 unique battlechips, something that is lower than even BN1's 176.

>>7870007
They should have explained plotwise as to why Megaman couldn't charge his shot in the game.

>>7871391
or just let Charge shot and Slide be purchasable in the shop for 0 dollars. then people who want it can have it and people who don't can choose not to buy it.

>>7870043
The other (Yous) are just being 'GitGuds' trying to defend the worst of the series.

The biggest problem with it is its so self-congratulatory. It just reeks of 'we get to do a game in a big franchise so we dont have to do it good'. Lazy design, no slide/charge shot, no making use of extra buttons to switch weapons. Its pretty much devs that are obsessed with 2 in a bad way.

its about navigating pits and avoiding spikes. Its just not fun, its just constantly frustrating.

>>7871391
was there a plot reason? It wouldve been great if MM got the slide, and Proto got the charge shot..not just Proto with both and MM with nothing. Makes sense because 'sliding' with a shield would be more difficult.

Or they couldve given Proto different abilities. Maybe some new shield move, or that weird 'morph into 3 energy balls and move' that has existed in the series (I think Heatman did it first).

>>7864576
>What if it was all just a dream?

>>7871008
Well, you see, 10 is just not good. sub standard.. nothing special. Instead of going through the motions like 10 does, 9 tries to get special and falls flat on its face and shits itself.

>>7871463
i take that back. 10 is decent.

>>7864576
Its weird that while there's been a lot of Megaman Manga and American Comic Books here and there, but only a few full-fledged cartoon series either way. There's a couple for Classic, None for Legends, several for Battle Network, One for Starforce, A dropped Pilot for ZX, and NONE for the X series.
>it takes effort and oversight
Yes, but Capcom would only need to license the rights to an animated tv series or direct to video OVA, the writing, storyboards, and animation would need to be left off to people with more experience in animation for TV or film. Candidates for a suitable studio could include:
>Tatsunoko productions
>AKOM
>TOEI
>Sei Young Animation Co. Ltd.
>Aardman animation
>Illumination
>Wonderbrain
>Dreamworks
>Gainax
>Laika Studios
>TMS Entertainment
And for when Boom! goes under, either give the comic book license back to Archie, or how about Dynamite Entertainment, Scout comics, or Image Comics?

>>7870072
What board was this from?

>>7871383
the game came out in Japan the same year as Rockman.EXE 3, I'm sure the devs had no time to properly plan shit for BN4, which shows.
Man, Capcom just treats Mega Man poorly in general.

>>7871485
>NONE for the X series
I'd count the Day of Sigma OVA, even though it's just that, an OVA.

>>7872069
Every BN game including 4 had about a year inbetween Japanese releases, it has no excuse. BN1 and 2 came out within the same year outright, March and December.

I'm amazed the games are as incredible as they are, 4 excluded, with that in mind.

>>7872229
I think what is different is the circumstance. BN2 feels more like "Okay, this is all the ideas we had but we didn't had the time to work them out cuz we had to figure out the battle engine and ship the game in time, thank goodness the first game did well enough we could put them to use".

While 4 feels like:
>"Okay, 3 was the finale, we're closing shop. we're just releasing BLACK as an updated re release, fans will like th- w-wait... It sold how much? A sequel? oh but we don't have any ide-... Bandai wants us to do what?? To sell their toys? Okay but... Crossover with a Hideo Kojima game? What the FUCK is a Boktai? Rework ALL graphics? In such little development time!?"

>>7872075
>>7871485
The Day of Sigma is the best animated Megaman media we ever got. The X series has infinitely more potential for a good series because the Maverick Wars have some very mature and question-raising situations.

>>7872269
I don't think X4's story gets enough credit for this. The X series started spinning it's wheels shortly after that but the way X4 shows that the word "maverick" devolved into a political tool, the robot cops grew a little too trigger happy, and everyone were more than ready to fight political opponents when talking to them would have instantly solved the problem, is almost too good an idea for a Mega Man game. It all plays out like an anime's attempt at Shakespearean tragedy but the underlying plot devices are chillingly accurate to real life.

>>7869514
Bright Man only uses his time stopping attack when his health is a multiple of 4. If you have his weakness, you can shoot him once with the buster, switch to the Rain Flush, and never have to deal with it again. Even if you don't have the Rain Flush, you can easily prevent him from freezing time by counting your buster shots.

This is a bit of a tangent, but how the hell was Mighty No. 9 bad? How did it happen?
It had Inti Creates and the original creator of Mega Man. How did they fuck it up?

>>7870060
I'm not going to front. 2 was one of the first I played. That's probably all there is to it.

>>7866194
Wily Stages are a joke but Doc Robot and even the regular stages can be a pain in the ass if you are not prepared.

>>7871008
>I'd go so far as to call 10 borderline bad
I don't get it, people LOVE MM9, then MM10 cames out a couple of years later and it's literally the same game with more content and people are like "Uh well, this one sucks it feels outdated and boring" wtf? The only thing that MM10 does objectively worse than 9 is the weapons.

>>7872327
Yeah, on paper X4's story might be very complex and deep. But the actual execution is awful, everyone acts like a retard for no reason, the terrible dub doesn't help either.

>>7873067
>everyone acts like a retard for no reason
so exactly like IRL

>>7872879
It wasn't so bad, but I played the PS3 version and it was clearly unfinished and sometimes nearly unplayable because of the framerate. I guess IntiCreates were not used to develop a game in 3D. Other ideas such as having a multiplayer that nobody cared for, or voice acting or the not-so-good looking 2.5 gameplay were things that only damaged the game further. At the very root of its core MN9 is a decent MM game, but I feel like everything about the management was a living hell.

>>7873092
>>7873067
What if...
Most events after the X-series end is either a Near Death Experience from a comatose Axl or Zero having a nightmare during cryogenic sleep?

>>7873108
That's fucking dumb

Here to remind you all that Mega Man 2 is the worst Mega Man game on NES

>>7873049
>then MM10 cames out a couple of years later
More like 10 months later, not even a year.
I agree with you, people are either hypocrite, or just "accepted" 8-bit graphics returning for one time.

>>7873246
Off by one there, you're thinking of the next game

>>7873389
Mega Man 2 has awful bosses, mediocre Robot Master stages, terrible Wily stages, and outside of specific uses that come up maybe once or twice in the entire game its weapons are all nearly worthless except for Metal Blade, which is stupidly broken.

>>7873049
>>7873382
They have very different design philosophies though. Mega Man 9's stage layouts are so much better. It's very standard Mega Man. "Here's this new thing", "now here it is again but a little harder" and so on. Mega Man 10 just slows you down all the damn time. It went miniboss crazy for one. And stages will force you to stop, like the sand storms in Commando Man's stage. Mega Man is very momentum dependent and when you're pacing is constantly being fucked with it makes the game more annoying than it should be. It's the same reason Mega Man X3 is worse than X1 and X2.

>>7873436
Excuse me what? Mega Man is not momentum dependent. Mega Man literally accelerates and stops instantly. A huge number of enemies in the series are based on waiting and firing at their weak spots.

>>7873067
>everyone acts like a retard for no reason
Isn't that the Red Scare in a nutshell? Yes, they could have resolved the problem and figured out Sigma was running a blatantly obvious false flag but the subtext was 1) that being accused of being a Maverick was alone damning so the Repliforce preferred a fight instead of the stink of the accusation, and 2) the Maverick Hunters would label others Mavericks for being even a little bit non-compliant.

Then again, even the word itself changed definitions over the course of the series. In the early SNES games, maverick seemed to just mean a reploid criminal. They supposedly have free will, after all. So a reploid that chose crime, like joining Sigma, was a "maverick." Some time between X3 and X5 that shifted to succumbing to a virus. Which kind of undermines the whole free will thing because now all the mavericks aren't really in control at all and they were driven crazy by a maverick virus.

>>7873442
There's a huge difference between working past a Sniper Joe and pausing for an extended mid-boss fight or...just because the stage makes you stop. Momentum may be the wrong word, though. More like "progress." It's about always being productive in some capacity. In fact, the games tend to punish you if you don't make progress. It's easy to get cornered by Big Eyes and shit if you don't make aggressive moves.

>>7873436
This guy gets it. MM9's pacing is excellent. It feels like every single block of the level design and every single enemy placement and design is thought of to be part of a whole and contribute to the excellent pacing of the game.

MM10 on the other hand tried different things because it wanted to at the same time appeal to people who loved 9, and to those which (even at the time) complained about spikes and pits like this >>7871435

But because you have to have some challenge somehow, it replaced a lot of death inducing hazards by things which don't outright kill you but instead slow the tempo of the game. It wasn't the right solution to appeal to everyone.

IMO MM11 did that right and managed to please everyone. When you get good the game also has excellent pacing (I dare say perhaps even better than 9) and at the same time casuals don't have that many spikes and pits to cry about and can cheat their way through with the gear system without anyone calling them cheaters. It's perfect for everyone.

>>7873527
My only complaint about 11 is that the levels are juuuust long enough to wear out their welcome. Other than that it might be one of my favorite games in the series.

>>7873527
>it replaced a lot of death inducing hazards by things which don't outright kill you but instead slow the tempo of the game. It wasn't the right solution to appeal to everyone.
I disagree, I rather prefer the longer but slower levels from MM10 than the small levels with insta-deaths everywhere from MM9.

Why did the X games keep getting worse after X4 but the mainline games never really had a bad title.

>>7873067
The undub version helps a little. Back then, western voice actors usually didn't take videogames seriously, so the director would just get some cheap ones to do the dub and call it a day. Japanese ones, as a heritage from anime, were more serious, even if a little too dramatic. Nowadays, things are better, but Mega Man X4 suffered as a victim of that time.

Anyway, about the story, I think Repliforce was your average japanese "muh honor" protector:

- Hey, man. People think you're a bad guy. Let's tell them the truth. But come unarmed, so they won't think you'll attack them!
- NOOOOO!!! MUH HONOR!!! FOR THE GLORIOUS EMPEROR!!!
- Calm down, man! It's just a quick chat, then you'll get your weapons back and everything will be settled!
- DAME!!! BANZAAAAAAIIII!!!
- Good grief...

>>7874283
That was dumb yes but the Maverick Hunters knew that the Repliforce was framed, by a rogue Maverick Hunter no less, and still picked a fight. The Maverick Hunters are reploid cops and they were doing the equivalent of arresting known innocents and making them do a perp walk just for show.

>>7873246
>>7873416
>Mega Man 2 is the worst
Agreed. Completely. Levels aren't fun and the bosses are retarded. American EZ 4 kids mode is the only redeeming quality.

>>7872327
>the word "maverick" devolved into a political tool, the robot cops grew a little too trigger happy, and everyone were more than ready to fight political opponents when talking to them would have instantly solved the problem
was this a metaphor??

>>7874582
Yes, it was directly based on the Red Scare of the cold war era. Maverick became as much of a buzzword as russian spy did back then, an easy way to get people on your side.

>>7873527
This. Mega Man 9 is a fine game and I really enjoyed it. 10 on the other hand really bored me and you explained perfectly why. I also don't mind the spikes and pits in 9 because overall the game feels pretty fair and balanced with its difficulty and nowhere near the bullshit pulled in previous entries (especially MM&B).

>>7874143
>after X4
You mean after X1 before going up in quality again with X4 and immediately taking a nosedive after X4.

Dr. Cain being dropped from relevance in X4 hurt it a lot because the story is fundamentally about human fear that any reploid might go maverick and demanding the Maverick Hunters do something about reploids even remotely suspected of maverick-like behavior and the hunters being too impotent to argue out of fear that THEY will be viewed as Mavericks. But there are no humans in the game so that plot point gets overshadowed. Its really a story about humans building a society of robots with free will and then freaking out because any one of them can go rogue and often hide in plain sight. And prior to X4, several previously respected reploids have gone maverick so any reploid is now a suspect.

>>7864576
Mega Man should have moved to the SNES at Mega Man 5